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70980581 No.70980581 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

We call the operating system made by Richard Stallman "Linux".
We call the kernel used in Linux and made by Linus Torvalds "the kernel".

Got it?

>> No.70980679

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as The Kernel, is in fact, Linux/The Kernel, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Linux plus The Kernel. The Kernel is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Linux system made useful by the Linux corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the Linux system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Linux which is widely used today is often called "The Kernel", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Linux system, developed by the Linux Project.

There really is a The Kernel, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. The Kernel is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. The Kernel is normally used in combination with the Linux operating system: the whole system is basically Linux with The Kernel added, or Linux/The Kernel. All the so-called "The Kernel" distributions are really distributions of Linux/The Kernel.

>> No.70980865

>>70980581
The problem with the name "Linux" is that it's too damn sexy. It's short, pronounceable, unique and sounds cool. The GNU project never saw this coming. Semi-ironically Linus didn't even come up with that name himself, he tried to call it Freax. Some other people coined this name for him because they liked it better.

If you're talking about application clients then it's usually enough if you categorize "Windows/Mac/Linux" and everyone knows what it means, even if it's not technically the correct way of saying it. It's just so practical. The only way to dethrone the name "Linux" is to come up with something even better that everyone starts to use. Since people are often opposed to any change in their lives, it might be pretty much impossible.

>> No.70981206

>>70980679
lel

>> No.70981293

i use linux+gnu+systemd+apt+xorg+i3

>> No.70981317

>>70980581
Stallman didn't make anything he's just riding off of other peoples work.

>> No.70981340

>>70981317
It's the other way around.

>> No.70981359

>>70980865
the problem is that the FSF is anti-business, which alienates all the major corps that use Linux.
Add to that the fact GNU didn't roll it's own distribution, they just accepted many distros as "fine to use".

>> No.70981381

>>70981293
RMS approves this: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many

>> No.70981385

It's called "GNU".

>> No.70981390

>>70980679
I should start spreading this pasta lol

>> No.70981433

>>70980581
People just say "The kernel" because there is no word left and Linux is already taken for some retarded reason

>> No.70981448

Linux is the kernel of the GNU+Linux operating system.
Simple.

>> No.70981492

>>70980865
Linux looks very interesting, even if some of the screen colours and menu options appear to be a little out of the ordinary. But you are missing a vital point, a point which takes some experience and depth of knowledge in the field of computers. You see, when a computer boots up, it needs to load various drivers and then load various services. This happens long before the operating system and other applications are available. Linux is a marvellous operating system in its own right, and even comes in several different flavours. However, as good as these flavours are, they first need Microsoft Windows to load the services prior to use. In Linux, the open office might be the default for editing your wordfiles, and you might prefer ubuntu brown over the grassy knoll of the windows desktop, but mark my words young man – without the windows drivers sitting below the visible surface, allowing the linus to talk to the hardware, it is without worth. And so, by choosing your linux as an alternative to windows on the desktop, you still need a windows licence to run this operating system through the windows drivers to talk to the hardware. Linux is only a code, it cannot perform the low level function. My point being, young man, that unless you intend to pirate and steal the Windows drivers and services, how is using the linux going to save money ? Well ? It seems that no linux fan can ever provide a straight answer to that question !

>> No.70981519

>>70981492
wtf did i just read?

>> No.70981548
File: 1.03 MB, 1726x2582, 1558038263195.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70981548

>>70980581
And when people look up what Linux is they see it's just a hobby project by Linus Torvalds that accidentally caused a revolution.

I don't approve this. Call the things by their names and there's no confusion.

>> No.70982197

>>70980581
gnu can be replaced, the linux kernel makes people able to run open source software in their devices thanks to Linus Torvalds, GNU is just one of those software. GNU has never cared about people using their software they just jerk to themselves because they have freedom. How is that stupid kernel going? Hurd? more like turd.
The kernel takes more ability to write and is what got us this far, apache, ssh, X11 and many others are not gnu software and in fact there is Linux distributions without gnu because linux is the operative system that has made us able to use so many free software.
A hippie footcheese eater jew trying to rip popularity and merit off of the actual valuable player should be made fun of. The license is great and it encourage software to be open source, that's great and I respect it. But stealing credit for something you didn't write is stupid.
The sticky is just a joke which retarded reddit visitor fall for who think that the GNU+Linux pasta is epic.
Kill yourself OP you are always a faggot

>> No.70982302

>kernel == OS
brb gotta hop in my engine for a quick run to the mall.

>> No.70982356

>>70982197
The GPL wasn't made to be open source. Open Source is a washed out term made for businesses.

>> No.70982384
File: 281 KB, 548x437, 1557534481803.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70982384

>>70982197
>footcheese check
>jew check
you missed "commie" lol, fucking retard

>> No.70982430
File: 583 KB, 824x547, 1482992375691.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70982430

>>70982197
>stealing credit
Just consider: the GNU Project starts developing an operating system, and years later Linus Torvalds adds one important piece. The GNU Project says, “Please give our project equal mention,” but Linus says, “Don't give them a share of the credit; call the whole thing after my name alone!” Now envision the mindset of a person who can look at these events and accuse the GNU Project of egotism. It takes strong prejudice to misjudge so drastically.

>> No.70982513

>>70981492
I don't think you understand how computers really work Anon.
You do know that Linux also works when installed alone on a disk right ?

Also this whole name thing is retarded, names only exit as pointers, who cares what they actually are. We could call "Linux" "Marmite" and reverse, that wouldn't make much difference

>> No.70982522

>>70982197
>gnu can be replaced,
This shows up a lot and reminds me of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
For your convenience
>Theseus is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object.
What are your thoughts on this?
>there is a ship, built in the 80's, called GNU
>in the 90's, it got a different engine
>is the ship still the GNU ship?
>if you put some stuff om the ship, the X cannon, the browser emergency boats, etc, is it still the same ship?

>> No.70982529

>>70982522
There is no ship

>> No.70982531

>>70982513
>Linux also works when installed alone on a disk
lol, no

>> No.70982547

>>70982356
retard, you can only spout shit you've read somewhere else without thinking for yourself? You're so mentally ill from consuming memes that you can't think for yourself.
GPL IS MADE TO ENCOURAGE AND KEEP SOFTWARE OPEN SOURCE.
BSD is a non license than only keeps the original author, but it doesn't help to open source software like GPL.
Freedumb and other stupid buzzwords are just stallman footcheese retarded forced memes

>> No.70982549

>>70982529
Sorry, for a moment I thought there was room for reason.

>> No.70982555

>>70982430
It's like this in many fields. In space exploration, everybody remembers Niel Armstrong for walking on the moon, but nobody cares about Micheal Collins and every others who made the trip possible.
In soccer, the one who scores is much more famous than the one that made him the pass.
The finisher always has much more consideration than those who helped him, deal with it

>> No.70982559

>>70982547
The GPL was created years before the term Open Source was coined, retard. Do some research.

>> No.70982581

>>70982522
this >>70982529 is not me.
The ship in question is the linux kernel in which people computer's run free software names the radar telecomunication and weapons. If you swap the radar, weapons and communications it still is a ship. Linux.
No ammount of mental gymnastics will make userspace tools the operative system

>> No.70982596

>>70982430
It's beause of the newer generation who don't know GNU anymore, they only know Linux as system. That's why they consider GNU just as 'a set of Linux tools'. They simply don't know it better.

>> No.70982602

>>70982549
Not him but Gnu and the Linux kernel aren't the same thing, don't have the same function and if any of them was the fundamental that would be the kernel, not the added software that the gnu project added

>> No.70982620

>>70982581
good luck in the waters with your ship engine

>> No.70982649
File: 160 KB, 481x577, 1505008438787.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70982649

>>70981548

>> No.70982678
File: 828 KB, 1114x1214, 1553705721787.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70982678

>>70980581
Linux sounds a lot better than Gahnoo. Also tux is cute.
GNUtards are too autistic to realize that retarded names like GIMP put people off. They are also too obsessed in cloning existing software instead of creating something actually useful. There is a reason why Krita is seen as good software while people still think that G*MP is just a shitty ps clone.

>> No.70982683

>>70982678
It's pronounced "gnew".

>> No.70982702

>>70982678
absolutely based

>> No.70982784

>>70982702
Paint program vs Image editor.
Apples vs. oranges

>> No.70982801

>>70982678
So we rename things because we don't like the correct name? This causes problems. You can't write a letter with a swimming pool and you would rather connect it with water then with a writing stick. The same happens with GNU and Linux. The real reason why RMS cares, is because Linux sends a different message than GNU, the main point being freedom.

>> No.70982833
File: 158 KB, 720x673, 1558045446904.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70982833

>>70980581
it's scary how real it is, look what they do at kernel.org in order to avoid this confusion

>> No.70983099

>>70982683
>>70982678
I pronounce it like G-nu

>> No.70983146

>>70981359

Based on how the GNU acts, it's a good thing that they just handle licensing and the libraries.

>> No.70983213

Why all this fuss about what to call the systemd OS?

>> No.70983225

>>70982430

Except Linus never demanded singular credit.

If GNU was that important, it would have been noteworthy without Linux. It isn't.

>> No.70983289

>>70982430
More like:
GNU: We want to add your kernel to the GNU project.
Linus: No.
GNU: *ED-209 in stairs*

>> No.70983337

GNU doesn't deserve to be included when mentioning Linux, GNU latched onto Linux like A cancerous parasite, GNU Project had the option of using Hurd but they were too retarded to do anything meaningful by the time Linux got big.
GNU is parasite that leeches of off the actual hard work that had been done by LinusTechTips and should be treated like one.
Fuck GNU and fuck Hurd.

>> No.70983473

>>70981359
It's not anti business. How did you came to this wierd conclusion?

>> No.70983524

>>70983225
GNU software was already being used long before Linux.
>Except Linus never demanded singular credit.
Gee, no wonder, he already has far too much of it.

>> No.70983544

>>70983337
It's the opposite, senpai. Linux is the cancer that turns free software into a business joke. Ever wondered why linux foundation makes big money with microsoft, google, facebook, etc, shills against the gpl and praises proprietary software? We could have mich more freedom today. Instead we got the washed out open source shit, where nonfree stuff and the cuckoldry that goes with it doesn't bother.

>> No.70983638

>>70983524

Linux was fundamental to the GNU's success and just so you know, special pleading is pathetic.

>> No.70983766

>>70983544
Based.
All this shilling against the GPL, presenting it as somehow more "restricting" is the most pathetic dishonest campaign I've seen.
I used to be like many people ITT who believe Linux is what's really important, and GNU is "just a bunch of commies leeching". That's because I heard about GNU, Stallman and the FSF from other sources instead of directly from them.
My opinion changed drastically once I read Free as in Freedom and actually read up some history about both GNU and Linux, and free software in general.
There is A LOT of FUD and plain bullshit going on about GNU. Linus himself, for example, deeply misunderstands the GPLv3, and once attacked it for "going against the GPLv2" while not even mentioning tivoization, the main reason version 3 was created in the first place.
Linus, and also people such as ESR, probably _know_ Stallman is 100% right about software freedom and the evil of megacorporations, but they don't say it and instead offer silly motivations for what they call "open source" such as "it produces better software", instead of the more important social issue of freedom.
I'm not saying they are bad for doing this, hell, it makes "selling" FOSS and gaining support easier. But I highly doubt they themselves believe that shit.
And as for "why did they use Linux instead of keeping working on Hurd?", the reason is that the goal of GNU was, and has always been, spreading the concept of free software, and in order to do this, the first thing to do was a free operating system. They did develop basic userland tools, but it was all part of the larger project, and thus they never had issues using existing components, compatible with the GPL, such as X. Linux was no exception.
The goal was shitting out a complete free OS, no matter how much they wrote themselves, and they succeeded. Refusing to acknowledge GNU's contribution, in technical, legal and ideological terms is asinine.

>> No.70983785

>>70983638
GNU software was already used before Linux, no one gave a shit about Linux before it was incorporated into GNU.
There is no "special pleading" here. It honestly amazes me how aggressively people refuse to acknowledge GNU's importance.

>> No.70983792

>>70983766
Nobody in this thread has ever said something against GPL retard.

>> No.70983815

>>70983785
why do you people always mix up gnu and linux?
you meant to say nobody cared about gnu until they incorporated the linux kernel because gnu wouldn't run in nothing before the linux kernel retard

>> No.70983884

>>70983815
>why do you people always mix up gnu and linux?
Did you reply to the wrong post? Where do you see "mix up gnu and linux"?
GNU software _was_ already being used years before Linux was ever starded, this is a fact.
You don't believe they need to run on Linux, do you? And yet the latter needs gcc to be built.
GNU can, and already did exist without Linux. Linux without GNU gives you bootleg "open source" stuff like Android and unusable distributions like Alpine, leaving out the need for gcc to exist in the first place.

>> No.70983908

>>70983785
There might be people who actually have something against GNU and want to see it gone, but approximately 99.9999999% of people only want to get rid of the name so they have less to pronounce. Keep it short and simple. People aren't against free software and the GNU project, only the retarded name "GNU/Linux" which no one bothers to use anyway. It's the whole issue of the GNU project, forcing people to mention it every time. It's like forcing people to say "Black & Decker hand drill" instead of "hand drill" whenever you're using Black & Decker. Giving recognition sounds nice for Black & Decker but no one is actually going to call it that.

>> No.70983948

>>70983908
yes, I just hate that they take so much credit. The best thing they have is the compiler, and the license. The tools that people most often interact with in the actual operative system is just stupidly simple

>> No.70983957

>>70983785
>GNU software was already used before Linux

It was software primarily used in a few universities. The Linux kernel was what was necessary to make the software useful.

It doesn't matter that it also works the other way around, Linux didn't sit around being useless for years, it began being functional off the bat.

>> No.70983989

>>70983957
>The Linux kernel was what was necessary to make the software useful.
None of that software relies on a particular kernel to actually work.

>> No.70984000

>>70980581
Actually, no. Linus Torvalds wrote the Linux operating system. Stallman was not involved at all. He contributed nothing. Being a mean-spirited opportunist, he butted in and claimed it was his. What a dick.

>> No.70984013

>>70983989

Doesn't matter. I can make a hello world program, the fact that nobody will ever use it means it isn't successful. The fact that you're using Linux (that means the OS, GNU included) has nothing to do with the GNU.

>> No.70984030

>>70981492
Is this the new version of this pasta?
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ? As in, without a boot disk, without any drivers, and without any services ?

That sounds preposterous to me.

If it were true (and I doubt it), then companies would be selling computers without a windows. This clearly is not happening, so there must be some error in your calculations. I hope you realise that windows is more than just Office ? Its a whole system that runs the computer from start to finish, and that is a very difficult thing to acheive. A lot of people dont realise this.

Microsoft just spent $9 billion and many years to create Vista, so it does not sound reasonable that some new alternative could just snap into existence overnight like that. It would take billions of dollars and a massive effort to achieve. IBM tried, and spent a huge amount of money developing OS/2 but could never keep up with Windows. Apple tried to create their own system for years, but finally gave up recently and moved to Intel and Microsoft.

Its just not possible that a freeware like the Linux could be extended to the point where it runs the entire computer fron start to finish, without using some of the more critical parts of windows. Not possible.

I think you need to re-examine your assumptions.

>> No.70984065

>>70984013
The fact that I'm using Linux has everything to do with GNU since that's the project it was used together with to actually spread.
And now you are backpedaling by implying GNU software wasn't used, and I repeat that GNU software ___was already being used___ before Linux was even started. Period. In fact, GNU utilities replaced many comparable programs at the time.

>> No.70984085

>>70984065
>implying
I implied no such thing and you're special pleading again.

>> No.70984111

>>70984085
>I implied no such thing
Then explain what you meant by
>Doesn't matter. I can make a hello world program, the fact that nobody will ever use it means it isn't successful.
Come on, don't play dumb now.
>special pleading again
Explain how I'm "special pleading", you seem to like these words.

>> No.70984161

>>70984111

I dunno, you could read what I said instead of making a stupid
>implying
post. That post doesn't imply that GNU doesn't exist, I have said from the start that Linux is the cause of GNU's success, not GNU.

You really should google what special pleading is, you are a textbook case.

>> No.70984220

>>70984161
>n-no don't make me actually elaborate on what i said, g-google it yourself!!1
>That post doesn't imply that GNU doesn't exist
Which is not what I said. I said you implied no one was using them by saying
>Doesn't matter. I can make a hello world program, the fact that nobody will ever use it means it isn't successful
Funny of you to accuse me of reading comprehension.
Seeing you're resorting to dodging, it's not worth continuing anyway.

>> No.70984234

>>70984220

Yes, google special pleading, and you should educate yourself. Me just saying the words is the explanation.

>Which is not what I said
>And now you are backpedaling by implying GNU software wasn't used

Yes you did. I am not dodging, you're relying your case entirely on already being right and special.

:)

>> No.70984253

>>70981448
a toolchain does not equate to an os

>> No.70984263

GNU isn't jist a toolchain.

>> No.70984305

>>70980679
Fucking dead.

>> No.70984322
File: 297 KB, 1280x720, satou.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70984322

>>70982678
Fucking THIS.

I've been saying this for years.
This is why freetards will never be successful. There is a reason why Apple and Windows are named like that.

Acronym names like GNU, GIMP and KDE are simply shit.
Retarded puns like gNewSense or Konqueror are never going to catch on.
Don't even get me started on the unpronounceable shit like bspwm, sxkhd and sxiv.

>> No.70984356

>>70984322
Makes ya wonder how "DOS" took off though.

>> No.70984438

>>70984356
Cause you don't have to pronounce it like Dee Ooo eS

>> No.70984464

Name at least one thing made by GNU, which is not simple enough to bother replace it and don't better alternatives.

>> No.70984478

>>70984356

Windows 95 was when Microsoft and the personal computer began to enter just every household, anon. It wasn't the Apple 2 or some such.

>> No.70984498

>>70983766
good post

>> No.70984519

>>70984000
braindead

>> No.70984549

>>70982678
If McDonalds says 'this is a fucking hamburger' you fucking call it a fucking hamburger, nobody cares if you like the word or not, asshole.

>> No.70984612

>>70984549
lol no, no one would by this "fucking hamburger" pff so macdonalds would have to eat shit
Stop saying that big evil corporations can do whatever cause they are big and evil wtf

>> No.70984661

>>70980581
For everyone who really wants to know the GNU project's actual standpoints on the topic, read https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html nearly all usual questions are answered here and they ate IMHO pretty reasonable.

>> No.70984675

>>70984263
give me one example of a non toolchain program that's not just some rehash of another program to meat gnu guidelines

>> No.70984688

>>70984322
>unpronounceable
bspawn
sexhead
sixfive

>> No.70984692

>>70984675
GNU Emacs. :^)

>> No.70984704

>>70984692
>userland program
yeah that really warrants renaming linux

>> No.70984721

>>70984675
What he meant is that GNU is a project first, and a userland second.
The arguments for calling the system "GNU" have little to do with the amount of GNU code actually present.

>> No.70984729

>>70984721
they also have little to do with sanity and pragmatism

>> No.70984733

>>70984704
Emacs isn't a toolchain program, and I don't see GNU trying to rename Linux.

>> No.70984756

>>70984549

Except they don't do that, they call it a Big Mac.

Ever wonder why?

>> No.70984803

>Kernel
It's Nucleus, newfags.

>> No.70984837

>>70984803
200 IQ

>> No.70984854

>>70984438
As a kid that is actually how I first pronounced it D.O.S instead of doss

>> No.70985199

>>70984704
>renaming linux
are you retarded? nobody wants to rename linux. linux is the chosen name for the kernel linus torvalds has made.

>> No.70985408
File: 206 KB, 476x327, run_fast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70985408

>>70980581
I'd phrase it differently.
"Linux" is by definition the "Linux Kernel" AND by REFERENCE the "OS".
So if you say " i'll boot into Linux", you'll certainly not mean the kernel in this instance.

This is what GNUfags don't or don't want to understand. I'm full on with the FSF's view on freedom, but they make themselves laughable by insisting on the most unhandy prefix to say/write and goes against the established slang.

>guaranteed replies
>now that i wrote it not anymore
>now some will say "fuck it", i'll reply anyways

>> No.70985551

>>70985408
Have you ever Deena Windows user referring to booting into NT?

>> No.70985569

>>70985408
If you like freedom, don't promote a name that advocates cancer. Give credit to what has been done, so people see what has been done in the name of freedom, not in the name of Linux.

>> No.70985605

>>70985551
Nobody says "NT" in the real world. Linux on the otger hand...

>>70985569
I'll give credit to RMS' clear picture of freedom and his passion to fight for us. Not this stupid naming scheme.

>> No.70986050

please everyone, download linux from kernel.org, tar xf if, dd it to your drive and try to boot it, operate it, and post on it how it went, the operating system linux

>> No.70986059

>>70980581
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>> No.70986385

>>70980679
based

>> No.70986958

>>70986059
Thank you, Richard.

I admit that I am totally wrong. It is indeed GNU/Linux, as it should be.

Everything I am I owe to you. Without the generous, benevolent work of you and the FSF, I would be flipping hamburgers in Helsinki.

I am not even worthy of washing your feet with my tongue.

Thank you for correcting my disgraceful errors.

Love,
L.

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