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70694090 No.70694090 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

> "I program in python"
How does it feel?

>> No.70694171

Whatever it is, it gets the job done at the end of the day. Quite quickly too, which is what ~80% of people want. Feels good

>> No.70694300

>>70694171
>it gets the job done
except that it doesn't
>Quite quickly too
it's 3x slower than JavaScript
>Feels good
ignorance is bliss

>> No.70694349

>>70694090
Python is a scripting language made for non-programmers and non-programs.
But people are like "Oh my god yes, this is so slow and limited, I must write entire massive application servers in this!".

It's absolutely retarded. Enjoy the GIL and inexplicable C extension crashes.
>Inb4 shitty retard workarounds to the GIL

>> No.70695338

>>70694349
i don't know what your defect is, but real people use python in the real world to make real money; but perhaps these concepts frighten you, or you've never encountered them.

>> No.70695351

>>70694300
>>it gets the job done
>except that it doesn't
except that it does

>> No.70695359

>>70695338
>You can make money using shitty tools, therefore you should use shitty tools instead of proper ones!

You know, someone has to actually maintain this garbage and provide the fucking server farms necessary to run Python shit that would run on a single node were it written in a proper langauge.

>> No.70695370

>>70694349
This anon gets it.

>>70695338
>real people use python in the real world to make real money;
What does that mean? In the real world there's a shortage of competent engineers because BigTech imports pajeets by the millions sending any American with the IQ and resources running to another career path.

That leaves a vacuum where pure shit can make money as long as it sorta solves some problem, when it doesn't crash, before the heat death of the universe assuming you throw hardware at it.

>> No.70695415

>>70695359
all languages suck. you either pick one to implement your software in, or you sit around and get nothing at all done. no one pays for nothing getting done very long. depending on your requirements and availability of programmers, python is sometimes the right choice, hence python software ends up in production.

>>70695370
>What does that mean?
it means businesses hire programmers to write python code that meets client needs. does that really need explanation?

>> No.70695444

>>70694300
>a language is slower that the other
It's like saying english is a slow language because you only talk to retards.
It's about implementation, folks.

>> No.70696167

Python is the fastest way to get proper machine learning and scientific computing done.

Tons of great libraries that does the heavy lifting with C or Fortran without the scientist having to worry about how it is done in the background.

For scientific computing nothing comes close. Even languages especially designed for it like matlab, R and Mathematica are only slightly easier to use in certain niche applications. Everything can be done in Python fairly easily as well.

>> No.70696758
File: 50 KB, 524x700, comfy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70696758

>>70694171
With all the issues and mistakes they made with the language, library, and docs its not perfect. It works though.
Python is comfy.

>> No.70696866

oh look its another >python is slow haha thread

>> No.70698271

It's ironic because Portage, a nearly universally praised and extremely powerful package manager, is a great example of how Python is used for big boy programs but this is glossed over by all of the dissenters.

>> No.70698328

Honestly learning Python was a gateway to understanding more complex concepts and new stuff in other languages, at least for me.

Negating its usefulness is simply foolish

>> No.70698341

>>70694090
What is a scripting language

>> No.70698389

>>70698271
That's because people who shit on Python are just LARPers and never actually made anything more substantial than FizzBuzz.
Python isn't perfect by any means, mind you, and does deserve some criticism. The problem is, it's often criticized for the wrong reasons.
When people bring up the fact that it's poorly designed, I would agree if they pointed at Lisp or Haskell as examples of better designed languages.
Instead these fags wank over C, whose semantics were historically defined as
>gee, i don't know, whatever the pdp compiler did

>> No.70698446

Python looks cool.
I want to learn it after I learn a bit of C++

>> No.70698472

>>70694090
The definition is merely that Scripts aren't typically compiled, they are interpreted. Whereas "Programs" are compiled. That is the only technical difference.

It doesn't imply incompetence or noobishness to use one or the other. Holy fuck.

>> No.70698475

>>70694300
>it's 3x slower than JavaScript
And? Not being Javascript automatically makes it better than Javascript.

>> No.70698594

>>70694090
portage is fucking trash

>> No.70698606

>>70698594
why the fuck does it take so long to calculate dependencies

>> No.70698629

You people should stop complaining so much about languages. We are using English here even though it is a god awful language.

>> No.70698646

I don't get paid enough to use Java/Kotlin or C++ on the clock and I'd rather solve problems quickly and go home early.

>> No.70698705

>>70698606
python

>> No.70698714

>>70698629
it's literally the second best language

>> No.70698784 [DELETED] 

> Job is to develop and maintain mission critical
monitoring software for the department
> Use Python because it's easy and to reduce development time.
> Writes C extensions when necessary.
> Nobody ever complains about the speed, let alone know the software is written in Python

I pretty sure nobody on /g/ has a real job due to the petty shit you guys argue about.

>> No.70698794

> Job is to develop and maintain mission critical monitoring software for the department
> Use Python because it's easy and to reduce development time.
> Writes C extensions when necessary.
> Nobody ever complains about the speed, let alone know the software is written in Python

I pretty sure nobody on /g/ has a real job due to the petty shit you guys argue about.

>> No.70698803

I choose to use Bash (for Linux-only scripts), Python (for cross-platform scripts), or PowerShell (for Windows-only scripts) because they generally get the job done quicker than most other alternatives. Productivity-wise, nobody at work wants you fagging around all day with Haskell or whatever. Meme languages are fine for personal projects, but that's about it.

>> No.70698932

>>70698794
>nobody on /g/ has a real job due to the petty shit you guys argue about.
Exactly.

Python for 99% of my use cases at work is what fits the bill. I rarely, if at all have to use anything else. I'm talking to an API 99% of the time, I spend more time on waiting for the API to respond than whatever language I'm using.

>> No.70698977

>>70694090
Python CAN be compiled.

>> No.70699047

>>70694300
> 3x slower than javascript

I think that nigga was talking about how developing on Python is faster than other languages. Does it justify the performance penalty? Maybe, depends on what you need to build. Some companies want shit fast, some have reliability concerns.

>>70696167
>>70698794

Learn whatever pays the bills.

>>70698446
It will feel limited but you can pick up ML with it and learn other stuffs.

>> No.70699129

>>70698705
Lies. Paludis doesn't take significantly less time.
It's simply a more difficult problem than most other distributions: you have to make sure your flags are all compatible lest your system shit itself.

>> No.70699410

>>70694090
>class making engineering capstone projects
>many use arduino/pi's
>complain that their machine is too low powered to run their shitty Python scripts
>meanwhile my C programs run perfectly
Feels good man

>> No.70699508

>>70694090
Most of the time you're writing glue code around a network server and a database, python is well suited for that.

>> No.70699539

The only thing I wish Python had is the ability to pass basic data types by reference.

>> No.70699614

>>70699539
only thing I don't like is no switch statements.

>> No.70699644

>>70699614
>what is a dictionary

>> No.70699659

>>70694171
>quickly
Python is slower than molasses. JS whips the fuck out of it in speed, let alone compiled languages.

>> No.70699739

>>70698389
I hate Python for a variety of reasons. Principally because it's slow as fuck, which isn't an issue until you have retards writing numerical integration programs in it. Take a program that completes in 30 seconds for a given input size in C++, and the python implementation takes 300 minutes, and that's not an exaggeration. Then you get into shit like Python2 vs Python3, and how that fucking bifurcates PyPy as well, and if you want to use numpy you can't use Pypy with that for some unfathomable reason. Then you have the GIL, so fuck you if you want to write multithreaded code. And finally the significant white space makes refactoring a horrific experience. Want to put something in a loop, or a function? Gotta manually reindent all that, can't just highlight it & hit tab to reflow it in emacs like C, Rust, or LISP. All this on top of Pythonistas who shriek about programmer time being more valuable than CPU time, as though their programs don't run on thousands (or more) of CPUs many times, like electricity and other people's time is free, and so on and so on. At the very least, I can say Python is a huge improvement over shit like Bash.

>> No.70699895

>>70699739
>do program in C++
>write a wrapper for Python

there you go, write the heavy stuff in c and dont touch it never again

>> No.70699912

>>70699895
The Chad way to do it.

>> No.70700000

>>70699614
This

I'm a huge pythonfag but there are still things I miss, like having a true "C-style" for and a switch statement.

>> No.70700002

>>70699895
That's what most popular Python libraries do, and also include other languages as well
Cython
Numpy
Scipy
Sympy
Numba
The one that wraps ggplot from R
And other niche C/C++ libraries have tools that allow you to control them with Python, like OpenFOAM.

Honestly, the big thing about Python is that you can use many C, C++, Fortran, R and other languages features in a single place without needing to reinvent the wheel every five minutes.

>> No.70700008

>>70699739
Most of numpy works just fine on Pypy.
And you describe problems every editor solves and are a none issue with a Python plugin.

>muh GIL
You don't really know what you are talking about. Most stuff you want multithreading will just work and everything else works with multiprocessing.

Architecture is always more important than the run speed of the language.
And Python makes it a lot easier to design an actually working application that as a whole will make it faster than an equivalent application in a different language.
It makes it easier to find the bottlenecks and overcome those.

>> No.70700147

>>70694090
> "I program in python"
2.7 or 3?

>> No.70700183
File: 24 KB, 236x285, 1553573217292.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70700183

>>70700000
HOLLY SHIT

>> No.70700205

>>70694349
>Enjoy the GIL
If you're having issues with the GIL, you're way outside any sensible use of Python.

>inexplicable C extension crashes.
What the hell are you doing?

>> No.70700309

It's a damn shame that so many people are too stupid to realize that LISP is fundamentally easier to write than Python and inherently superior.

>> No.70700317

>>70700000
Check em

>> No.70700341

>>70700309
It is, but unfortunately it doesn't have nearly as many libraries.
The language itself is objectively better, though. It also has excellent performance for being so high level, Common Lisp can be almost as fast as C.

>> No.70700346

>>70700309
The thing about Python is that any braindead mong can just come and call a library for anything imaginable, so little actual programming and education is required
On the other hand, Lisp requires a high IQ to use, and you actually need to program

>> No.70700412

>>70700346
A (((high IQ))).

>> No.70700715

yes and it's good as a scripting language
I can't imagine using python for anything else other than small stuff like scripts that you don't particularly care about or which won't get too large
if you make actual software in python you should end yourself

>> No.70701132

>>70694300
python is used as a glue language you retard. like other anons already said there are bunch of c/c++ libs out there. python has wrappers for most of them so it's easy for average joe to write their own programs. js a shit

>> No.70701170

>>70700000
based digits

>> No.70701301

>>70701132
I work for a corporation that uses an in house built Python application as the centerpiece of what we do. After loading all libraries the application idles at about 4GB ram, when you open various components you can make it up to nearly 30GB.

Everyone is on a virtual desktop. 16GB ram and 8 cores assigned. Rather than rewrite this shitty application we have all been migrated over to HP Moonshot cartridges, each with 64GB ram.

No complaints about my session performance at least but this is what python developers will do to your budget if you let them

>> No.70701438
File: 35 KB, 268x476, roast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70701438

>>70701301
yes, i can see this happening. i've never worked with enterprise-grade python software but working with pyqt i often encounter memory leaks. i'm guessing that's what happening in your case, too. thing about snekfags is that we're lazy faggots and unless everything breaks nobody is going to anything about it.

>> No.70701489

I only know Python which I've used to automate boring office tasks and for stuff like web scraping, and I'm currently learning C.

What language should I learn to write "proper" programs?

>> No.70701497

everything's moving to go anyway

>> No.70701526

>>70701489
write in c

>> No.70701530

>>70701489
>What language should I learn to write "proper" programs?
Python. as much as people like to circlejerk around here about low level programming and speed, those guys are actually not needed that much and fast output of is much more desirable than some basement dweller with no social skills who takes his sweet time developing something that's fast and efficient when it's not needed at all. company loses money with people like that

>> No.70701672

>>70701489
understand that each lang is only a tool and nothing more. drop that "proper program" elitist bullshit you've picked up here - it won't do you any good, and just keep learning stuff that interests you

>> No.70701674

>>70695444
If the massive task of creating a fast implementation of a programming language is really as easy as you think then why is the official implementation of one of the most popular languages in the world still slow as dogshit after almost three decades? It's almost like the design of the language and the fundamental overhead of certain abstractions has something to do with it (C++ -> native integer types, python -> bignums lmao, js -> everything is a double lmao, but ofc it goes much deeper).

>> No.70702465

>>70698714
After what? Chinese? You're confusing best with most spoken.

>> No.70702536

>>70699659
Nobody will accept that JS is a great scripting language because it's used in annoying ways on the internet.

>> No.70702547

>>70701301
Enterprise software is notoriously shitty, though. I don't know if it's a problem with python or with the developers.
Do you think a team of enterprise software engineers could ever come up with the original c2 wiki? (150 lines of perl ffs)
Their managers didn't whip them into shape, they didn't forbid writing shit code, they didn't enforce standards, they wanted a product and they wanted it yesterday.

>> No.70702574
File: 72 KB, 537x538, qvkw40prhtr21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70702574

>>70702547
>they wanted a product and they wanted it yesterday
>We'll do unit testing later, for now lets just focus on the release
>Release finished
>Why are you going back over old code it's already been released you need to focus on the next release. We'll do unit testing later.

>> No.70702591

>>70694171
C is faster. Kys

>> No.70702633

>>70702591
Unless you're willing to produce garbage, writing and debugging C is slow as hell.

>> No.70702658

>>70702633
>I am a brainlet unable to write good kode
I am sorry dude. I really am.

>> No.70702838

>>70702591
It doesn't matter. Human resources are far more expensive than hardware, and for when you have performance issues in critical paths you can make C extensions.

>> No.70703472

>>70702574
This anon knows

>> No.70703511

>>70694090
If it works then it is good. I like it more than stuff like java since python at least has good api's that are not sent out with thousands of bugs that will never get fixed.

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