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/g/ - Technology

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68665273 No.68665273 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

At wich age is "too late" to start a /g/ career?

>> No.68665283

your age

>> No.68665287

at your age faggot

>> No.68665294

Come on, 23 is not that old, r-right?

>> No.68665330

How to start your IT carreer in two easy steps:
1. make something useful
2. apply for jobs

1. follow an education
2. apply for jobs
2. apply for jobs
2. apply for jobs

>> No.68665543

Programming? 19
Tech support? 21

You could be a QA testing monkey well into your 40s however.

>> No.68665596

>Programming? 19
What about 20? Is there still a chance or is 19 already a stretch?

>> No.68665615

Anything below 27 is still more than enough time to get a degree and make a career.

>> No.68665648

starting from scratch at 20, having never programmed before? good luck with that

>> No.68665669

Programming isn't rocket science. I started uni at 20 and didn't know any programming before, now I (almost) have a PhD in CS and I'm currently working as a senior software engineer.

>> No.68665676

Startups want young and hip people, the guy delivering was pizza at my house was more qualified than I was, but no company wanted to hire him because he was 50ish.

>> No.68665711

I started at 24, now 29 code monkey
feels good to have comfy dev /g/ job

>> No.68665718

>Startups want young and hip people
But most established companies do not.

I'm going to let /g/ in on a secret, the reason why all you freshly graduates are unable to find a job is because you are young and inexperienced (in life, as well as with work). No boss wants to hire someone arrogant brat younger than their own kids for something critical to their business. Startups are the only notable exception I can think of, but then again, 8 or 9 out of 10 startups fail during the first 4 years.

Of course, being too old and looking for jobs is not good either, because nobody wants a hire that is close to retirement age. Voluntarily quitting your job at 50 and hoping you'll find something else is outright stupid.

>> No.68665736

Try learning a little bit of CS on your own. Being a programmer whilst hating programming is a living hell. Make sure it's something you want to pursue before you put major money into it. I can't speak for other countries, but in America, if you can get a degree in CS, it helps a ton and makes learning very easy, but isn't exactly necessary. You can probably get away with a coding bootcamp and a web dev job if you're okay with <80,000k salary. It's not impossible to climb the ladder and be a self made, valuable programmer from nothing, even at your age, but college will streamline it. Just make sure it's something you actually want to spend the rest of your life doing. It's sad to see shitty programmers filth codebases because they have zero passion.

>> No.68665740
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its never too late anon. when I went to Uni for CS, there were some students who were in their 40s and 50s. they were always the most studious too.

>> No.68665775

Browser hijackers, such as Google.com, are a type of malware that operates in your browser without your consent. Browser hijackers get added to your browser as browser add-ons, plugins, or extensions. Typically, Google.com and other browser hijackers invade your browser when you click on links of malicious websites distributing the program, or when you download other free software where it is bundled in the software’s installer. There are also more sophisticated types of browser hijackers that automatically install by exploiting your browser’s security holes without any actions on your behalf####
Once it infects your browser, browser hijackers like Google.com start controlling your browser behavior. It will alter your browser settings in unwanted ways, such as changing your default home page and search engine. It also attempts to modify the privacy settings of your browser to make your browser more vulnerable to other types of malware, specifically other browser hijackers, adware, and toolbars.

>> No.68665776
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>Try learning a little bit of CS on your own. Being a programmer whilst hating programming is a living hell.

>> No.68665859
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>start a job programming Monday after graduating at 27 (BS EE)
>lost it in less than a year because the company wasn't getting revenue to pay wages
>haven't had full-time employment since February
Feels bad man. I've applied to more than 75 jobs, with probably about a five out of six split for local versus out of state. People just aren't hiring, which I know is bullshit because 75% of the jobs are for people with years of experience... and very few if any for entry level.

See the third requirement for what they expect someone to manage milking equipment to have.

>> No.68665877

Hey, now, there are outliers for everything.
I started at 24 as a web scraper with no history in technology and no degree. I'm a sr engineer for a large multinational company today.
That doesn't mean OP can do it, though, if he's asking questions this retarded.

>> No.68665897

Do they want you to mange the fucking milking equipment or join in on the local, weeklyMennonite barn raising? wtf is this retarded shit?

>> No.68665914

It's a mock job opening, intended to highlight the "challenges" for software engineers to be (i.e. demanding having built an application before). There's obviously no such thing as a "dairy engineer".

>> No.68665931
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>tfw trying to start programming at 22
>breezing through my stupid CS courses with perfect grades
>can't actually do anything at all
>professors don't actually program anything either
I'm two weeks from deciding whether to go full CS or jump ship into something maths related. Save me.

>> No.68665941

Is there a such thing as a Poe effect for job postings? Because I've seen enough "Happiness Coordinator" and other BS titles in the past that this isn't all that ridiculous to me.

>> No.68665944

I started at 32 and five years later I’m at the top of my field. It’s never too late; but you had better be good.

>> No.68665953


Shoo, shoo, greedy Jew. No one needs to go 100k in debt to get a good job in software.

>> No.68665975

Never too old granted you have the time, money, and dedication to dedicate yourself to it.

>> No.68665977

Try making a good program.
If you can, you use this good program as a portfolio.

>> No.68665984

That's a real job I applied to.

>> No.68665994

No one "needs" to get a job in software either, but a degree is by far your best shot seeing how HR will throw your application straight in the trash during the screening process without a technical person ever reading it if you don't have one.

Of fucking course your degree is irrelevant when applying for your third or fourth job, but getting the first job is the tricky bit and you need to be all sorts of exceptional to manage to catch an employer's eye if you don't meet the minimum requirements exactly. And while these people certainly exist, they don't hang around on /g/, that's for sure.

>> No.68666005

Applied Maths make big bucks. Basically data analysis. Even women get high paying jobs in it.

I transferred from a free AS living at home to uni (5 semesters, SUNY system). Only ~$35k in debt. The bigger problem was the work was "designed around groups" i.e. cheating from your friends, so my grades suffered when everyone had their clique already. I'm not brown or yellow or a woman so I didn't get a free pass.

>> No.68666025

>Requirements: You have designed and built at least one barn up from the ground with proven results

No, it's not.

>> No.68666028

>There's obviously no such thing as a "dairy engineer".
My company has a "liaison engineer" who to my knowledge just sits in her office and sends out annoying emails.

>> No.68666042


Yes, it is.

>> No.68666135
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Is 31 too old?
Asking for a friend

>> No.68666243

JUst do it fucking pussy. I asked myself should I switch to CSE everyday during my undergrad until I went back for second degree in compE

>> No.68666271

Once Alzheimer or similiar disease kicks in, usually in old age. Before that it's always a green light, it'll just take more time and effort the older you are.

>> No.68666295


I help hire for my department at a Fortune 500 and we've had to go through HR's "unqualified" folder every time to actually find some candidates to interview because everything they send us is either candidates outright lying on their resume just because of the job posting or complete garbage that couldn't even code Hello World in HTML.

It's unfortunate, but we are not allowed to posts jobs ourselves. Bureaucracy...

>> No.68666335
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>tfw 29
>tfw too old
>getting older symptoms already showing
>dropped college like 8y - 9y ago
>never had a job in my life

I'm not gonna make it /g/ bros

>> No.68666377

Yes you will

>> No.68666503

Money is not a problem, I live in Mexico and university is free.

>> No.68666544


shoo shoo spicboy

>> No.68666561

At the age you start making threads in /g/ looking for excuses.
Your greatest enemy isn't age(ism), but rather that /g/, vidya, and instant gratification in general fries your brain.
Procrastination is hell.

>> No.68666564

No one will care about your age if you are good.

>> No.68666588

Startups are neat to pad your resume but IBM doesnt give a fuck about your age as long as you're moderately young.
50 might be pushing it tho. Most companies wont bother making an investment if you're gonna retire in 10 years and you're gonna be sick half of that.

>> No.68666604

Ok, this hits way too close home.

No need to be xenophobe, I'm a human being just like you.

>> No.68666698

Why is it that so much of university feels like this?

There is a gap between the "academic" world and the "trade" world, the "trades" are seen as blue collar or lower jobs. And yet if someone becomes an electrician or plumber for example, almost all of their time is spent exclusively training with tangible skills they will need for their job.

It's so weird to me college has this reputation of being for "smarter" people, but seems to demand less in the way of actual SKILLS. it's more "fluff" so to speak. and more built on pretense and formalities etc. then real world practical training.

>> No.68666729

What kind of development? And were you self taught? If so, how long did it take you to get employed?

>> No.68666753

Just end it

>> No.68666776

>He needs to spend $100k to get a degree

Fucking burgerland, lmao

>> No.68666790

I started at 29 and everything was fine. Teenie boppers on the Internet feel the need to justify every choice they've ever made by pretending, outwardly, that if it's not the single best choice, then it's at least one of the only valid choices.

The real answer is that people mostly don't give it shit, if your interviewer is a dev and not an HR lady he's barely going to notice your age unless you're really old looking or have a complete babyface

tl;dr: ignore the retards here who crosspost to /r/cscareerquestions

>> No.68666809

University isn't supposed to be practical training, and CS isn't a trade.

>> No.68666851

>literally 10 months
>only applied for 75 jobs

>> No.68666866


>> No.68666877

You do not want a /g/ career. Go for a skilled trade. You won't make as much money but you'll have less stress and better job stability, and most of the work is piss easy if you have IQ above room temperature.

>> No.68666884

its not worth wasting your time, i tried to go back to uni to start at 22 and 25 and i could never make it past calc 2... i failed too much to get any financial aid and then the CS dept didn't want me anyway. If i could go back in time i'd go to a boot camp but i've already wasted so much money taking stupid general education for uni I'm switching to business administration.

>> No.68666887

Nowadays this is even less true, unis, except for top-tiers and Ivys, are just shitholes for niggers and women

See also, the absolute state:

>> No.68666907

>while these people certainly exist, they don't hang around on /g/
I call bullshit. I did this, no degree. I hang around on /g/ and it's fucking pathetic.
see: >>68665877

>> No.68666913

What the fuck has Jared Taylor and his retarded identity politics to do with CS? Keep /pol/ in /pol/, please.

>> No.68666955

>his retarded identity politics
t. leftist cuckhold in denial
>wahhh what does a point being made about university have to do with a discussion about university

>> No.68666960

now that I think about it, this could be there to either scare people off OR to make sure you read the requirements when you reach the interview. ffs, they're asking 1 year of experience... who's gonna engineer a barn in their 1st year?

>> No.68666977

CS is a subfield of mathematics, hence why it isn't a fucking job training course like plumbing. Go fuck off over to /pol/ if you want to discuss political science and/or social science.

>> No.68666993

>white genocide is the reason I can't get a programming job

>> No.68667022
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5 years old.

Too old to be a prostitot.

>> No.68667067

>CS is a subfield of mathematics
yeah, easy math that any high school kid can do without issue, you egotistical faggot

>> No.68667097

The point is, CS isn't a course in programming, and university isn't supposed to be job training. Complaining about how CS teaches you nothing about the latest Java Spring frameworks is nonsensical.

>> No.68667113

>easy math that any high school kid can do without issue
Then why did you drop out, anon?

>> No.68667115

This is unironically the counterargument of a privileged white/Jewish/Asian asshole, in a sane world this would change, this is why we are having this discussion. Yes, we all know that uni is not supposed to be vocational training. Fuck off

>> No.68667119

I'm another anon, not that one

>> No.68667123

I'm in my 30s in a similar never had a job situation (but I'm close I'm waiting on paperwork from this warehouse) but I do know that it is totally illegal for them to discriminate based on age so honestly just don't tell them your age. I sure as hell won't.

>> No.68667131
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>> No.68667134
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>tfw my 5yo child isnt already working 7 to 9 on his Linux propietary AI blockchain Fortune 500 startup multinational job
At what age do would you euthanize this parasitic failure of a child? I was thinking 8 if he doesnt get a job by them, but I dont want the other 17 to think im some sort of communist hippie.

>> No.68667157

>do a /sci/ degree
>now and again pick /g/ courses like operating systems, programming and digital instrumentation
>it’s literally easier than high school calculus

Any moron can pursue a /g/ career, I bet you most of said people can’t even perform calculus operations

>> No.68667165

>This is unironically the counterargument of a privileged white/Jewish/Asian asshole,
Cry more, faggot.

>in a sane world this would change, this is why we are having this discussion.
In a sane world, i.e. not the US, university is free and people don't have to drown themselves in 100k debts. But ironically, you think that it is socialism to provide free higher education to your own citizens, while at the same time complain that companies are importing foreigners because they can't find properly educated citizens.

>Yes, we all know that uni is not supposed to be vocational training
Then why did you even reply?

>> No.68667184

>In a sane world, i.e. not the US, university is free
is this post advanced satire?

tfw some literal eurofaggot is talking down to me while enjoying all of the privileges of his practical ethnostate


>> No.68667204

not OP but actually it's probably less "finding properly educated" and more them wanting to purposely inflate requirements so they can hire cheaper outsourced labor because they "couldn't find anyone" but actually could

>> No.68667220


>> No.68667230

>"don't get a degree, uni is only full of niggers and women anyway"
>"baaaaawwww why won't anyone hire me???? white genocide!!!"
>"how dare you criticise me, you're white and privileged!!!!!"

I honestly can't tell if this is false flagging or if identity politics just have corroded your brain.

>> No.68667232

You can try but its honestly a waste of money. You have like 10 years of catch up you gotta do

>> No.68667253

>waste of money
You don't need any money to learn how to program and learn basic CS concepts. Just time. The question is, how to get a job with this knowledge?

>> No.68667260
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Americans are extremely entitled and lazy, they seem to be under the impression that society owes them a job and when reality hits them in the face, they start blaming things on minorities.

I was actually offered a position in the US (pic related) and they wanted me in on a O visa or something. Offering me $110k + 10% bonus is clearly not "cheaper outsourced labor".

>> No.68667300

At about 90 I think

>> No.68667313

Not even joking. If you haven't proven your talent by that age in a hobbyist environment you will wind up in a shitty dead end job.

>> No.68667322

Oh of course I don't blame the minorities, I'm not a piece of shit like that. I target the companies that act like assholes. But I'm of course not saying that is the case with all outsourced labor. Your example points to a better case.

>> No.68667325



>no car
>no high shool diploma either though I did graduate
>just a semi-retarded brainlet with a learning disability since kinder I even repeated it

sad sad sad at this rate there's almost no way out and may as well kms within the next several years

>> No.68667332
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you're a fucking moron
>multiple anons say different things
>you strawman me repeatedly
I love how you just went back to your original nonsense post btw, your brain is stuck in an infinite loop you absolute nigger

>> No.68667358

Trust no one over 30.

>> No.68667359

>muh NPC

>> No.68667408

None at least not in my country, a lot more people have been changing their careers in their 40s and 50s in the recent years

>> No.68667409

Imagine being so insecure and having so much of an superiority complex that you blame recommending getting a degree on the jews, blame women and black people for not having learned anything useful in college, and blame not getting hired on Indians.

>> No.68667426

Sounds exactly like those leftist blackies that blame everything on "institutional racism" and microaggressions.

>> No.68667427

If you think that's bad you need to see how bad it is in Western Europe now. Everyone around me is lazy, dumb, and think they should get a government job.

The EU was a mistake.

>> No.68667430


>> No.68667432

instant (you)

>> No.68667435

>If you think that's bad you need to see how bad it is in Western Europe now.
>Everyone around me is lazy, dumb, and think they should get a government job.
I am from Western Europe (or rather Northern Europe), and government jobs are considered the lowest of the low and barely better than being on welfare.

>> No.68667456

if you can't spell anymore, it's too late.

>> No.68667494

doesn’t matter what age you’re smart, if you’re not a normalfag NPC with room temp IQ you can learn anything at any age. don’t know what’s with all the demoralization agents itt, maybe they’re just projecting

>> No.68667501

I started at 26

>> No.68667504

>Startups are neat to pad your resume but IBM doesnt give a fuck about your age as long as you're moderately young.

Wrong, even IBM discriminates.


Ageism really worries me as a 28 year old dude. I'll need a plan B by the time I'm 40.

>> No.68667513

>Dairy Engineer

>> No.68667522

It's ok anon I'm 23

>> No.68667528

my brother started truly programming at like 23 and he’s now employed at MIT’s neuroscience lab and also going there as a student free. plus he was a huge weed addict and MLG faze clan gamer type person for years. it’s never too late to learn anything

>> No.68667561

Honestly, if you're not running your own company by 40 and still slave for some boss that's half your age, you should probably just jump off a bridge anyway.

>> No.68667580

as long as you’re somewhat familiar with computers and not completely starting from scratch at that age, ie actually learning a lot of things in your intro to compsci which is mostly just common sense shit, you can start at any age

>> No.68667617

>Father used to be a wizard with BASIC, sold his pet projects like crazy
>Had some national scams named after his software
Feels bad that I will never hit that level

>> No.68667623

can't hear you behind my bsc that i got for free (as in free beer) :^)

>> No.68667738
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A shadowy future awaits us, anon. I'll probably get an unmanageable anxiety crisis somewhere soon and throw myself through the bathroom box glass.

>> No.68667843

One year younger than your age.

>> No.68667847

>At wich age
Maybe make less obvious spelling mistakes. It's probably showing up on your resumes.

>> No.68667963

32 here.
It's too late.
I am stuck doing low-level QA work.
I got lucky in my 20's and worked for a start up where I became the "go to guy" basically I was a glorified sys-admin but I worked on many teams just coordinating stuff, got to a point where I was so burnt out and sick of management I left at 30, had to start over and now I'm pretty stuck and dated as far skills go. I haven't had steady employment in the last two years. if you get in somewhere just have a min-max value of yourself, make sure management is aware of this too,.
otherwise they will work you to the bone.

>> No.68667995

22 is usually considered the last cut off. but that's pushing it

>> No.68668151


How the fuck is 23 pushing it?
You can say pushing it more like at 40 - 70
Fuck off, kid

>> No.68668218

Clearly applying for a single job in his area takes approximately 30 hours.

>> No.68668336

30 it starts to get hard.
40 is when your employer takes you out back and shoots you (with an HR position, or plain fires you), even if you've been hired for years.

>> No.68668337

Is 10 years an exaggeration? I really hope that's not true.

>> No.68668631

Don't take anything posted here seriously. Learning to program doesn't take as long as fucking medical school.

>> No.68668632

agree with anon also at 30 most people start to clearly see the dysfunctions at companies they apply at or are lucky enough to be hired they tend to often leave sooner then later if they have low tolerance for bullshit bureaucracy

>> No.68669519
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Yes, you're too old. There are 10 year old indians that are programming right now. You're fucked man. Game over.

jk you're good, nigga.

>> No.68670531

Sorry, I still haven't perfected my english. Is it At what age?

>> No.68670566

>must be below 20
>must have 5 year's experience
Looks like 15 is the cutoff

>> No.68670906


>> No.68670909 [DELETED] 

burgers, when will they learn?

>> No.68670934

>burgers, when will they learn?

>> No.68670997

Genuine answer? Anything before 21.

21 is when neuroplasticity falls to deadly levels, making it incredibly hard to learn anything in the realm of math, science, or language. Simply put, you won't truly learn programming or another language if you start after 21. You can be decent, but never good. I'd still go for it, though. If your IQ is high enough, you'll still be better than a good chunk of people.

>> No.68671026

Hi Hacker News

>> No.68671048

I tried to start at 24 and I can tell you right now that it was too late

Also, majority of companies don't take people over 28 or so

>> No.68671092

Which is spelled incorrectly

They said >wich

>> No.68671095

I'm graduating at 25 and there are already companies discriminating against me for being 4 years older than the normal CS graduate.

>> No.68671116

Oh I see, thank you, I need more practice.

>> No.68671127

You can't work at /g/ dumbas

>> No.68671169

I've known people who start in IT in their mid-30s. Age is less important than in lots of other fields. 4channellers love to be negative and want you to fail. Go for it OP.

>> No.68671184

>Applied Maths make big bucks. Basically data analysis. _Even_ women get high paying jobs in it.
top kek
What a /g/ent! Such pedi/g/ree!

>> No.68671202

Tara Tainton

>> No.68671231

Bro its never too late. Don't ask people on 4chan for advice. This whole site is filled with damaged faggots with a crab in a bucket mentality.

>> No.68671254

everybody lives in america: the post

>> No.68671263

>that massive projection

>> No.68671266

found the crab

>> No.68671289

You're literally saying that everyone is doing something you're doing right now. That's textbook projection.

>> No.68671303

who are you? i live in buffalo too

>> No.68671335

It's not age related, it's parenting related.

>> No.68671338

shooo Mr. Crabs

>> No.68671339
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CS is one thing and webdev is another, stop using the terms as if they were the same field, they are both "programming" the same way webdev is the "same" than programming a PLC in assembler.

I swear everytime I see someone doing CS to get into webdev I want out of this world.

>> No.68671361

you really think most professionals were doing their job as a hobby at 16?

>> No.68671507

A job is a means to an end, don't get fixated on the means, any way you get to your goal IS the right way. For young people with abundant energy having a good mentor or master is key to success, for slightly older but still young people with the amassed experience and connections social and professional, they should be looking to start their own business, we live in amazing times, everything is interconnected, opening a store online for example is literally just a few records in some database with an html preview. A discerning eye is key here, don't aspire to be the next jewberg, your enterprise can be waiting for you right under your noise, it might be a new kind of delivery service, solving the local traffic problems (this is of a hard problem)... You don't even have to be all that knowledgeable, you need to have people skills and have enough balls to take risks, the hairy underbelly of the entrepreneur dream is how fucking hard you have to work.

>> No.68671578

I see you are from the land of the """free"""

>> No.68671665

Explain the joke please I dont browse HN but I wanna laugh.

>> No.68671687

You will get forced into management or quitting around 40. If you don't have enough time between entering the industry and hitting 40 to have enough experience to get on the management you're too late.
Otherwise go for it.

>> No.68671970

>designed and built a barn from the ground up with proven results
I did a double take there. What kind of fucking requirement is that? Love the random meme phrases as well.

>> No.68672008

> the hairy underbelly of the entrepreneur dream is how fucking hard you have to work.

lol 90% of being an entrepreneur is just amassing capital

>> No.68672018
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>liaison engineer
Her actual job there is not one she does for the company, but for your boss personally.

>> No.68672027

If it's so easy just get a loan, nigger.

>> No.68672118

4.0 GPA here, 38 y.o. younglets just can't put their phones down and do the coursework.

>> No.68672221

You can fix yourself. Just walk out of the NEET cage you built yourself. Start going to latin mass on a Sunday and meet some professionals with large families. It will shame you into doing the right thing and you will make some decent friends based on something that actually matters in life.

You can go to college for nothing, they will work with your learning problems.

Killing yourself is weak and pointless. Thousands upon thousands of your ancestors clawed their way through the filth and gore so you could sit on your ass and do....what?

>> No.68672226

There are about 1 billion 10 year old Indians who know how to code. Think about it.

>> No.68672236

Well, I went to a top 3 and most us there started programming at 12 or 13.

>> No.68672248

how much experience do you need for management

>> No.68672264

15-20 years, depending.

>> No.68672277

I am 23 anda kissless virgin without a job ;(

>> No.68672704

I started university at age 28 and graduated at age 33, last year (I've studied part time, had a 32hours/week job during this period). I now work as a programmer, I've found a job immediately after graduation, just like everybody else I went to uni with.

>> No.68672803
File: 8 KB, 225x225, 1541896508819s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Programming? 19

I'm 29, one year of experience with JavaScript.

Is it a lost cause?

I use it to automate my tasks at work, and our devs. keep asking me to learn SQL and C# so I can help out.

>> No.68672851

All of you are retarded. Just join a good coding bootcamp and grind Leetcode/Hackerrank. Easiest fucking 6 figure job ever.

>> No.68672894

Man how is that fair, I get 2400€ per month taxed out the ass. How does some random programmer get 4 times as much just cause he's in murrica...

>> No.68672902

You got your foot in, you're good.

>> No.68672999

Feels good to hear that desu, I feel like I have more discipline now than I had in my teens and early 20s.

>> No.68673015

Depends on your IQ

>> No.68673020

You're going to be pretty much useless forever if you start any later than 10-15, and will either have to become a manager and become a useful people-person or forget about being a developer beyond your prime years (where you'll be treated as the novice you are).

>> No.68673032

>muh trade meme
oh fuck i can't wait to be a plumber

>> No.68673039

>I live in a shithole full of lazy fags
>that means whole Western Europe is the same
>this is EU's fault somehow
The average fucking mind of "muh ebil ee-you" poster. Neck yourself, nigger. Tech companies are literally fighting to recruit even mediocre grads from my uni.

>> No.68673055
File: 707 KB, 1280x720, 17 - z13U8Sh.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Everyone here is gonna make it.
Dont despair anons

>> No.68673074

I started in IT at 19 right after High School but I know people who are near 70 years old and still work in IT. Don't get down.

>> No.68673085

>muh cringe

>> No.68673144

I'm a mammal, just like you and my dog.

>> No.68673185

How easy is it to find a job with an A+ Cert? I'm studying to get one so I can finally leave the fast food industry.

>> No.68673192

Some of those guys do get paid well. The only problem is that it fucks your body up.

>> No.68673207

An acquaintance went from civil engineering to software in his late 30s. Now in his 40s doing enterprise Java. Not the sexiest job, but pays very well. It's never too late until you're in retirement age.
All the serious graduate, postgraduate studies and research is done well after 21. Stop being a lazy failure justifying your sloth through meme infographics.

>> No.68673208

23 is young af sweetie. If you go to college at 18 you'll finish at 22-23 and it's completely normal to start a career then. Even if you start college at 23 and start working at 27 in industry nobody will care.

>> No.68673239
File: 115 KB, 509x501, 1530126804209.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Wage-slaved till 26.
>Opt into online IT trade school.
>Study for 6 months and take a basic networking test.
>Official IT certified faggot.
>Now I get paid to sit in a comfy office room while I shitpost on /g/.

Anything is possible if you know the shortcuts.

>> No.68673257
File: 360 KB, 600x580, 1490138632998.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>IT vermin
Do you have any shortcuts for becoming McDonalds cashier operator too?

>> No.68673426
File: 413 KB, 576x591, 1384481709485.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Nigga, I get paid to sit in a comfy backroom doing nothing all day. The most I have to deal with is being asked to change printer ink while on my way out of the office at the end of the day.
I'm not contemplating suicide and I make enough to support my lifestyle for years to come. I'm considerably happy, anon.

>Do you have any shortcuts for becoming McDonalds cashier operator too?

>> No.68673474

How much do you get paid?

>> No.68673735

>I'm considerably happy, anon.
Good for you. Still talking about "shortcuts" for jobs that students with no experience can do is a bit silly.

>> No.68673754

No one brags about being a level 1 ticket jockey, you are still a lying failure

>> No.68673790

Do you want to be a low level IT guy or want to get to be a senior software dev? The cutoff is programming your own software by your high school years.

>> No.68673919

Lol. this is why things appear deterministic to me. Like a 10 YEAR OLD, he's gonna sit down and be like "yay programming and code!! woo hoo! I love computoors!" it takes a special sort of child to be like that, and I mean probably either a genius or savant autistic or at the least instructed by his parents (and by that I mean borderline forced) to take an interest in things like that at 10 years old. Like c'mon ... just developmentally it seems a bit unnatural for the young teens to aspire to sit in their rooms alone giving instructions to a machine

>> No.68674007

>stated programming at 21
>no discipline
>Got a AS cert in it
>still suck
might as well go into the armed forces at this point.

>> No.68674100

Are you me ?

>> No.68674163
File: 58 KB, 600x600, 1359509197937.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Close to $3200 a month.
I have no kids and no sinkhole female to waste it on. Anything that's not wasted on my /a/ or /g/ hobby is put in savings.

True, but I've witnessed idiots go through a four year college course to achieve the same simple shit that I have.

Yes, I lie to my parents every holiday that they can look forward to grandkids soon.

>> No.68674171

>getting older symptoms already showing

Like what? I wouldn't say that's normal....at least with athletes their primes are like 25-32. Get in shape

>> No.68674192

good for you, anon. I'm trying my damnedest to be great at my craft. I'm not great, but I'm good, which is more than I could have said 2 years ago. Halfway done with college, finishing up a co-op internship where I've made some great connections.

>> No.68674235

Because you have a lack of markets that speak your same language on the same continent to act as inherent competition for your skills.

If every other American state spoke a different language, programming wages would be heavily depressed since people in California would be literally incapable of functioning if they tried to pick up sticks and leave behind the cuckshed life and move out to someplace in the Sunbelt like they are doing en masse right now.

>> No.68674269

>$3200 a month.
That's still not a lot though, but if you can live comfortably, then I guess it's fine. How much were you getting paid at your other job?

>> No.68674272

>I hate that you’re happy: the post
You’re the saltiest crab in the bucket.

>> No.68674292

$3200 can be a lot depending on where you live. I get paid close to $4000 a month after taxes+insurance but the COL here is really low. An equivalent salary in NYC would be around $110k+ for my field.

>> No.68674295

>That's still not a lot though, but if you can live comfortably, then I guess it's fine. How much were you getting paid at your other job?
If you live in California, maybe. $3200 would be enough to cover all of my core expenses before wasting money on eBay after withholding for tax and retirement.

>> No.68674300

Couldn't that be either good or bad? If you are talented then yes you have a larger pool of potential employers competing, but if you're average then likewise you have a larger pool of more talented employees above you

>> No.68674307

If you said math I would believe you. Programming is not a very sophisticated profession, it never has been. You can become a good programmer starting at 40. It takes maybe 2 years of in depth practice to be employable.

>> No.68674320

>23 year old high school dropout
>Been a NEET for 6 years

>> No.68674345

>2 years
All it takes is around 4 months anon. I have multiple friends who have gone to good coding bootcamps in majors such as business and physics who have 0 prior programming experience and now work at top level companies. It really only takes a coding bootcamp and a week of coding interview grinding to get a good job in SWE.

>> No.68674381


Think of what NEET means, "Not in Education, Employment, or Training". If you want to escape then logically you will need to pursue some form of education employment or training

>> No.68674431
File: 51 KB, 640x688, 1466969866129.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

$1120 a month.
The COL is somewhat low in my area, but is becoming somewhat more costly as my city continues to grow. I may move to a smaller town orbiting my city in a few years.

>> No.68674433

What room is there to grow when it comes to Analyst positions?

>> No.68674450

I'm speaking from a general perspective. I'm a physics major, my programming experienced boiled down to "I did a Java class and solve some of my problems in python" yet I got a decent programming-oriented internship at one of the big companies in my city and my boss seems to like me enough that I'll probably get hired if I apply. Dunno if I want that to be my career though.

>> No.68674773
File: 736 KB, 970x888, 1450628241085.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>had an interest in programming
>take uni CS
>couldn't keep up with the due dates because I took too long to figure out solutions to assignments
>drop out
>two years later
>have some interest in web dev
>every now and then will experiment with what I know relating to JS and HTML

I like doing those things in my free time but I can't see myself being a web dev or programmer as a career. I feel like I would hate to do it at some point. I was thinking of going into IT since I've scratched the surface of subnetting and setting up routers and switches

>tfw jack of all trades; master of none

>> No.68674967

They post up the visa papers all the time in my office. They offer the injuns 150k to come over, but complain Americans ask for 100k. Really makes you think. But that is just my anecdote.

>> No.68675308

Keep in mind any certifications or even a degree won't guarantee a job. You still have to go through the resume filtering and interview and if you're lucky you get the job. I got my A+ during HS and it got me a job with my school, but in terms of other locations it was hard. It all comes down to location if you live in a big city you'll most likely get one but living in a small suburb(like me) decreases the chances. If you are in your late 20s don't bother going for the A+ instead just learn the material and go for a higher cert like CCNA, CCNP, MCSE, or any other in high demand certs.

>> No.68675357

Probably. I'll be 34 next year and I gave up hope.

>> No.68675436
File: 38 KB, 706x720, 1420166318282.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

How old are you? I went to school for sales and marketing then switched to finance. I liked it a first, but now I hate it. I've looked into web dev too, but I feel like getting a job with no degree will be impossible. I've thought about getting into other areas of IT, but I'm not sure what. I just hope I can fin something I like and not end up like pic related.

>> No.68675441

I dont think age will be the limiting factor here anon...

>> No.68675630

Which suny you at Anon?

>> No.68675672

Well my friend's mom went to college at 46 and got her degree at 48 in IT/Business and started working at a bank making good money in about 6 months after her degree so you decide if age matters.

>> No.68675719


>> No.68675888

>Applied Maths make big bucks. Basically data analysis. Even women get high paying jobs in it.

I have an applied math degree from a SUNY school. I am a code monkey right now, but have been trying to get into data analysis. I get rejected mostly. Any insight on career hopping?

>> No.68676037

Wojak OPs should be banned.

>> No.68676499

fuck off we are full

>> No.68676839

Most you guys who cant find jobs just dont know how to bullshit a little

How many people have you met that are actually good at their job?

Learn and work your ass off after you get there

>> No.68676922
File: 112 KB, 475x401, 1444341389567.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

23. I'm just not sure what to pick. I feel I can't stick to one thing.

I don't think getting a web dev job without a degree will be totally impossible but you'll have to have experience and a big portfolio to show to employers over those with degrees. IT will only need a degree if you want extra money, otherwise experience will do good.

Hopefully we find our place soon anon.

>> No.68677044


>> No.68677244

They probably grew up with the notion that one should tell the truth all the time. Model good humans the lot of them. That is not how real life works, you got to lie your way in, and then git gud or stay good enough so you don't get fired. I personally know tons of people that are far more capable that just can't get past the interview bs stage or afraid to try.

>> No.68677812


>> No.68678018

13, you need to start at 10 to be passable, 13 is way too late and you need adderall and lsd microdoses if you start so late

>> No.68678031


>> No.68678038
File: 78 KB, 600x600, 1542533724027.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>needs reassurance from the website equivalent of eshers stairs
you lost before you even begun, bucko

>> No.68678087


>> No.68678171


Do MCDs employees get free burgers?

>10 catpchas. BUsses, bikes and 1 chiminey

>> No.68678185

those better be doubles

>> No.68678196

I started programming around 17-18, having a solid understanding of computers well before that - i feel for people starting in their 20s. That being said, I suspect that people saying it's impossible are people who have never programmed and are angry at themselves for it.

>> No.68678482

The age you are thinking about. You are the only one that can limit yourself.

Seriously, it's not a matter of age, it really depends on the person.

I'm getting into web dev now and I'm 29 and I wouldn't be doing better if I was 18.
10 years ago I didn't have my mindset set for this neither were the resources as available, so I can't really blame myself for not starting earlier but I could really blame myself in 10 years for not starting now.

Just grow some balls and do it.

>> No.68678575


>> No.68678626

No age. But if you are near senility you cant meet demands of the work. Just be healthy and learn a lot. Age disrimination is a meme. Just be competent for the job.

>> No.68678827

If you didn't get into programming or CS in general by the age of 6 you're guaranteed to not make it

>> No.68678898

When I worked at mcds, employees get a 50% discount.
> tfw 4 big macs for 5 dollars

>> No.68678905

Write code host on github or any relevant repository. Contribute to existing projects or start your own. Showing you can refactor code and work as ateam member is very valuable to employers. Practice interview question s from relevant books or videos and you shall be fine.

>> No.68678975

>Do MCDs employees get free burgers?
In Norway, yes.

Cucked americans.

>> No.68679584

Won't you develop some sort of imposter syndrome if you lie?

>> No.68680167

You mean 3

>> No.68681021
File: 192 KB, 714x963, 1471571373741.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It depends in Murica. Some will let you take what's left sitting under the heat-lamp at the end of the day for free, while others will allow the employees to buy the food at a discount.
In my first few years of wage-slaving I kept my fridge stocked with leftover heat-lamp McShit to cut cost on grocery shopping.

>> No.68681141
File: 93 KB, 1280x720, 1541343417181.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>>while others will allow the employees to buy the food at a discount
>We were going to throw it in the dumpster, but if you want it you have to pay us
Capitalism in a nutshell

>> No.68681169

my code monkey job is less stressful than literally any other part of my life

>> No.68681175


>> No.68681181

They can just steal them. I mean, just write them off as dropped burgers.

>> No.68681554

What are you using to learn anon?

>> No.68682063

Not him, but I use these sites n youtubers to learn web dev.



>> No.68682384

If you aren't making at LEAST 80k per year by age 23 it's over.

>> No.68682478


lmao there's no way a man can support his family on that low income. If you aren't making 100k before the age of 25 then you've failed as a man.

>> No.68682505

>support your family
If your kids aren't already in their second year in college and able to support themselves by the time you reach age 25, you should just end it already.

>> No.68682591

My rich asian parents paid for my CS degree, I have zero debt.

>> No.68682604

>what is metalworking
>what is an electrician

>> No.68682612

international scum. All you guys do is cheat off each other.

>> No.68682630

If you're seriously implying that metalworkers and electricians are better off than people who get a degree, I'm pretty sure the jew here is you.

>> No.68682668

Not all of us cheat.

>> No.68682688

I'm 25 old now and I feel old working among 18 years old. There's only 7 years between us but I can feel the difference very much.

>> No.68682835

Same bro.
I work at restaurant as a bartender and all the servers and hosts are around 16-18. They're all talking about prom, college and careers. I feel like such an old fuck when I go to work. I also get really embarrassed when I see people I went to high school with come in. Really hope I can find a way out of this hell hole.

>> No.68683734

Yeah I'm only 23 and in the suburbs, but I live near DC so I think I might be alright when it comes to jobs.

>> No.68683769

So what are you doing now? How are you living life?

>> No.68684012

You’re probably feeling embarrassed because you’re comparing yourself against them. You won’t ever be happy if you keep that mindset, even after you become successful.

>> No.68684056

This was me at 12

>> No.68684102

Move out of the third world, burger.

>> No.68684400

>I have no kids and no sinkhole female to waste it on. Anything that's not wasted on my /a/ or /g/ hobby is put in savings.
Living the dream.

>> No.68685295

dont mind him, he's the schizophrenic balkan gypsy living in vienna as a construction worker with only an elementary school, I recognise his posts he's loves kniting fantasy stories of success on chan to maintain illusion of not being ultimate failure incarnate

>> No.68685359

If you haven't already done school then you're rapidly approaching the cutoff for a useful career. All your big promotions need to happen in the 25-35 range and you need a degree and two years experience before anyone will take you seriously.

Unless you move to the valley. You can easily start in like three months there if you dye your hair purple.

>> No.68685964
File: 1.17 MB, 640x960, Jenna James 15 (31).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Started mine @ 29..went from optics to work @ a DOD help desk/systems admin. Had to get A+, network +, and security + as worked my way up from $23hr to now $27hr, working 4 10hr days a week... I like it...

>> No.68686116

And that anon, is all that matters in this life.

>> No.68686128

>tfw im 28, about to be 29, and barely started college

Jesus christ I need to do something useful with my life.

>> No.68686267
File: 498 KB, 810x2300, 1522551261749.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>when the despair kicks in

>> No.68686318

Save as much as you can. I had the same salary (50k, take-home 3200 a month) and I had to quit my job because they stopped paying. I'm sure it's not a common thing, but never trust your company if they can't pay a paycheck on time.

>> No.68686380

I am responding! I looked for (you)s!

SUNY Buffalo. Absolute horseshit of an institution for the EE program and bureaucracy.

Target Python or certain functional langs? Supposedly Haskell is picking up. You need to at least probably have some database experience or some sort of data analysis (even visual/audio) before you can get one.

Maybe try programming an instrument recognizer. It wouldn't be that hard for single instruments, but then when you get multiple sounds overlapping it'd be interesting to see what instruments you could think are playing.

>> No.68686518

>implying chinks have it easy

>> No.68686733


>> No.68686823

>muh feels
woman are as bad as /fit/ faggots crying about no gf and shit like that
not deep anon

>> No.68686865

Apparently my age. I can't even get a volunteer position for experience.
>We only accept 14-20 year olds
>We won't return your messages

>> No.68687054

Asians had their groups they cheated from, and I'm super pissed my TA's were Asian and just gave out inferior grades on labs and refused to explain why. Literally in a class every single lab was 7-8/10 and they couldn't explain why any points were off. I know there's good Asians but they spoil it for the rest of them.

>> No.68687076

>want to shadow someone at a company to at least get introduced to software/hardware
>not allowed to be transferred over the phone
>no employee list or emails
>all personnel stuff is outsourced so you can't even talk to someone in hiring

>> No.68687133

Yeah, but you'll also get less respect from the people around you

>> No.68687253

>schizophrenic balkan gypsy
His English is 100% perfect American so I find everything you just said to be absolute bullshit.

>> No.68687800

I was a front end dev for nearly 2 years before I left to become a bartender. I make about 10k less but I only work 20 hrs a week instead of 50.

>> No.68688873

why dont you join frat and get their words? from my experience, asian nepotism is on par with frat nepotism anyway. or that SUNY just sucks to begin with

>> No.68689926

if i'm a brainlet droup but i run a service generating a couple thousand a month (that i programmed) with a couple hundred users then is anyone interested in hiring someone like me at a good salary instead of jr?

>> No.68689970
File: 146 KB, 588x823, 1520561758651.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Go for a skilled trade

>> No.68690027

If your IQ is below 130 you don't belong in a tech based field in the first place. Get over yourself and accept that if you haven't been coding on your own from 13 onward, you literally are not going to make it.

>> No.68690106

What does your service do?
Also why not just scale that instead of wagecucking?

>> No.68690142

it's just a fast ecommerce web scraping service (for shoes...). can't really scale it up despite the demand because it's supposed to be limited.

>> No.68690321
File: 701 KB, 975x1400, 1543319287387.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

How much bartending?

>> No.68690358

I usually start coding and read documentation as I go. Try it.

>> No.68690389

You mean I should care about being respected by retards like >>68689970 ? Good joke. I always massively overcharge people who are cunts to me, by the way.

>> No.68690450
File: 13 KB, 480x360, terry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Fuck a /g/ job. Just git gud with computers and go terry mode. World needs less glow in dark certified linux support, javascript pajeets, and wintrash/crap OS X devs.

Better to die on your feet making a solid temple OS like OS then be some cuck 4000 drone for omega global botnet. Ask yourself, would you rather develop shit in a comfy small van down by the river with a doggo or sit in metal glass tower prison being a keyboard monkey for googlenet?

>> No.68690504

>proud of physical labor that any braindead ape could do
fucking kill yourself. if all humans had your mentality we would still be cavemen.

hate blue collar trash.

>> No.68691899
File: 253 KB, 1280x843, 1509650274643.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

bruh he never did shit in the van, his debuggin session were J U S T browsing YT of his e-thot waifu and reading GW text outputs. all the code was done at his boomrz house before goonz tricked him into selling his battlestation because he though the e-thot was coming to live with him. kiwi-pharmz goonz literally rekt terry's life, as if the boomrz n cia gangstalkrz wasn't enough to make his life hell.

>> No.68691918

Damn 3 off, can i be a policeman pls

>> No.68691994

I started my 5 year cs degree at the tender age of 23, worked out pretty damn well

>> No.68692008

I started far later, and I ended up surpassing pretty much all of the dudes that coded since they were 13. The difference is that I actively worked on my skills, doing post mortems, reviewing my own code and learned new paradigms whereas they kept on learning jabbascript framework of the week

>> No.68692023

>no high shool diploma either though I did graduate
are you mental

>> No.68692050
File: 1.75 MB, 466x480, appreciateive.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

hey, thanx fella

>> No.68692580

There's literal boomers doing the same CS degree as me, as well as 30+ year old injuns.
These motherfuckers have wives and children and shit and they are struggling like hell getting shit marks and learning fuck all, they can barely understand basic programming concepts and can't even write 10 lines of fucking c# without assistance.
It's fucking pathetic.

>> No.68693089

How am I doing? I work a minimum wage back breaking job and barely make ends meet. I'm in my mid 30s and feel as though I'm already in my 50s. Stay in school, make connections while you're there, kiss ass to get your first proper job, don't fall into the trap of overspending once you got that $100,000 job, be a good goy and pay your taxes, don't take out loans, save for early retirement and enjoy a lovely life. Oh and be very wary of who you marry.

>> No.68693647

>I am very smart

>> No.68693696

Where do you live? Might be a cultural thing. No one here goes to university older than 22 at the most.

>> No.68693720

Never senpai. Half of my graduating class was over 30 with kids and they got 40k eurobucks straight out of college as devs, which is a lot here.

Go to a college that requires/helps you get an internship as part of the course. It's probably the most important thing in the whole damn programme.

>> No.68693733

I'm not him. But I studied tax law, where a third of the people consisted of 50 year old boomers.

>> No.68693754

Same here, law and medicine has such high requirements to admittance that at least a third of the students are late 20s to early 30-something year olds that have spent several years improving their grades and doing other studies (which counts towards the requirements).

>> No.68693956

Yes both those are all read degrees. Not meme CS

>> No.68694056

>Gets a job as a coder
>Gets replaced by someone on the other side of the world
>Become electrician
>Never have to worry about job security since the power grid is everywhere and is constantly falling apart

>> No.68694260

the age in which you spell which as wich

>> No.68694515

This thread has convinced me most of you are mentally ill

>> No.68695523

when you become senile, age only prevents you to wagecuck yourself

>> No.68695724

More like
>Gets a job as a coder
>Gets outsourced and replaced by someone on the other side of the world
>Become electrician
>Gets replaced by a mexican/polack/<insert your continent's cheapest labour country here> who will work for half your wage

The only winning game is to start your own business.

>> No.68695741

>be NEET for 8 years after graduation
>figure my degree was worthless after a year of NEETdom so never apply for work
>eventually feel suicidal, decide I'll put in 10 applications just to prove it's hopeless then kill myself
>got callbacks from 6 of them, 3 interviews and all 3 gave me an offer
>realize I wasted the best years of my life for nothing

>> No.68695904

You can’t get back the years you lost, but you can make the most of the new opportunities you have. I believe in you!

>> No.68695915

ITT: People you instantly judge, look down upon, feel you are superior to, etc. I will begin.

>Anybody who dresses with "swag" instead of class

>Anybody who did not finish High School.

>Anybody who did not get honor grades in High School.

>Anybody who did not take a Psychology class in High School.

>Anybody who did not go to University for at least four years.

>Anybody who works a minimum wage job.

>Anybody who does not make at least $60 an hour.

>Anybody with religious beliefs.

>Anybody with racist or homophobic beliefs.

>Anybody who uses racist or homophobic slurs.

>Anybody who expects handouts other than University scholarships earned by consistently getting superior grades.

>Anybody who receives government welfare or food stamps.

>Anybody who has children before the age of 25.

>Anybody that has children with multiple partners.

>Anybody who has sex before the age of 18.

>Anybody who uses illegal drugs for any purpose whatsoever.

>Anybody who uses any type of drug (including marijuana) for recreational purposes.

>Anybody who drinks alcohol.

>Anybody with an IQ below 170.

>Anybody that becomes engulfed in rage when judged yet is a lowlife, deadbeat, minimum wage worker that has done absolutely nothing to correct their life.

>OP pic related

>> No.68696965

This, a true /g/entooman follows these rules
>makes atleast six figure salary as software engineer and has experience at google/microsoft/apple/big tech firm
>does not engage, does not date, does not marry the female sex
>does not lift anything above 30 pounds
>does not do any physical labor around the household beyond basic sorting and cleaning, outsources do it yourself repairs and pays at any cost as long as /g/entooman does not get dirtied touching tools, must keep hands soft and clean for keyboards and fapping to anime girlfriend
>spends rest of salary updating home server, getting newest annual samsung/iphone, latest monitor to add to monitor collection, and vacations to thailand to have sex with ladyboy traps that resemble their anime girl wallpaper crushes

>> No.68696993

Sames. Except I got a dev job.
No one gives a shit as long as you know your stuff.
Fake it until you make it.

>> No.68697958


>> No.68698118
File: 1.02 MB, 1014x720, 1541879797161.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Um, sweaty.

>> No.68698162
File: 101 KB, 800x534, 1541206527540.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw not happy until I 'make it'
>anon is happy doing babby work
;_; I torture myself with my aspirations.

>> No.68698358

No one cares about your superiority complex. Stop blogging you bigoted idiot

>> No.68699262

Fucking this

>> No.68699423

Just get a remote job or freelance. Then you can be ageless.

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