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/g/ - Technology


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65656755 No.65656755 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

>Linux is objectively better than Windows
>Doesn't even have a central location to install software on your filesystem by default
>Have to hunt down where software that fucked up from a few rogue keystrokes installed itself
>Not in usr/bin, usr/share or any of the other nonsensical, scattered locations

Literally what the fuck, and who thought this garbage was a good idea? Was /Program Files/ too simple for literal autists?

>> No.65656774

>central location
>C:\Program Files
>C:\Program Files (x86)
>C:\Archivos de programa
>C:\Archivos de programa (x86)

>> No.65656790

try the which command

>> No.65656806

>what is which
>what is dpkg -L
>what is pacman -Fl


Also how does the fucking windows registry stand up to the simplicity of plaintext config files on disk.

>> No.65656809

>>65656755
yeah, why separate documentation, libraries, executablea and all that in separate places when you can simple just throw everything in one big vomit pit

>> No.65656825

>>65656774
linux;
>gee, i wonder where all the "virtualbox" files are?
>aurman -Ql virtualbox
windows;
>gee, i wonder where all the virtualbox files are?
>was it a 32bit or 64bit version? uhh, right, i don't see virtualbox in either, who made it? right, oracle, there it is. wait, doesn't it install a driver as well? where's that?

>> No.65656831

>>65656825
It has some shit in your appdata, also in registry

>> No.65656832

You don't have to use it, then. You obviously don't have the acumen for it.

>> No.65656833

>>65656825
But you see, you have to type white words on a SCARY black background, that makes it harder and more complicated than Windows!

>> No.65656851
File: 84 KB, 800x800, 1523060823329.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65656851

>>65656755
If it's not in /usr/bin it's probably not installed.

>> No.65656874

which [insert program here]

Woah it’s like magic

>> No.65656891

>>65656832
>>65656833
There is nothing wrong with using the terminal. There is something wrong when you need to either inherently know what commands to use to fix your problem or Google it and hope the niche problem has been posted about somewhere and whatever fragmented derivative of Linux distro you decided to use actually uses the same commands as the solutions you find.

I just find it hilarious people think Linux will become have majority desktop and laptop marketshare when things like this are completely unintuitive.

>>65656851
It created its own folder in /opt/Vivaldi

>>65656874
Nope, didn't find it. Found it myself.

>> No.65656902

>>65656891
-become

Really gets my noggin joggin.

>> No.65656915

>>65656891
>There is something wrong when you need to either inherently know what commands to use to fix your problem
Learning a language to properly use a computer is somehow a bad thing now?

>> No.65656925

>>65656891
sorry m8, but most people couldn't tell you where a program resides on disk in windows either
you're just used to windows, you know where to look for the same reason linux people know where to look, you learned how to do so

>> No.65656931

>>65656891
>command line is too hard
the post

>> No.65656946

>>65656915
Yes you idiot.

I want to use my PC for highly paid work. I'm not a coding monkey and don't want to learn a language so I can install software

>> No.65656954
File: 190 KB, 1920x1080, vivaldi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65656954

>>65656891
Use a better distro.

>> No.65656965

>>65656946
Then use an easy distro like MacOS or Ubuntu. They will let you use a computer without understanding how it works.

>> No.65656976

>>65656774
UMA

>> No.65656985

>>65656915
>>65656931
You both either have bad reading comprehension or are on the defensive because you love Linux and take criticism poorly. Everything can be improved to be more intuitive.

>>65656954
Yeah I'm thinking of switching to Debian. I chose Manjaro because I like rolling release and was running Arch about a decade ago.

>> No.65656992

>>65656755
>Doesn't even have a central location to install software on your filesystem by default
/usr/*
>Have to hunt down where software that fucked up from a few rogue keystrokes installed itself
I don't get it.
>Not in usr/bin, usr/share or any of the other nonsensical, scattered locations
Shitty distro?

>> No.65656999

>have to find
Is it too hard to type xbps-query -f <package name> or alternative from your PM?

>> No.65657011

>>65656985
The package would be in /usr/bin if you were using Arch.

>> No.65657040

>>65656985
what would have them do?

Alert you when an executable is installed?
[email protected] ~ $ sudo apt install vim
Reading package lists... Done
HEY FUCKING IDIOT WE PUT IT IN /usr/bin

>> No.65657043

>>65656755
>Doesn't even have a central location to install
C:\Program Files
C:\Program Files (x86)
%appdata%
C:\
Same shit, all apps are supposed to be installed in 'Program Files *', but they are installed all over system.
In GNU/Linux is /usr/* and /sbin and /bin
Sure, some retarded packages install themselves to /etc... but fuck this

>> No.65657045

>>65656965
I bet you open up your refrigerator to "know how it works" when you just want to grab something to drink also.

>> No.65657065

>>65656985
>Everything can be improved to be more intuitive.
Intuitive to who? Everyone else seems to think bash is more than adequate for use.

>> No.65657066

linux desperately needs a file system hierarchy redesign
no 3 letter bullshit like usr (which doesn't stand for user) or etc (which doesn't stand for etcetera) but /Programs /Users /Configs and logical names and hierarchy
the current one is outdated 70s mainframe style is not usable anymore
I think gobo linux is trying something like this
every program getting their own directory like /Programs/Firefox , not scattering it through 7 random directories
they even could have different versions like /Programs/Firefox/58.0/
no more /usr/bin bullshit
it's time we took linux to the modern era

>> No.65657093

>>65657045
>Yanks need to relate everything back to food to understand it

USA, please just nuke yourselves.

>> No.65657098

the thing is, it doesn't matter where the files are, since you can just ask your package manager
like for example, if i want to know which packages have installed themes, i can do;
$ aurman -Qel | grep /usr/share/themes/. | cut -f1 -d' ' | uniq
gtk-engine-aurora
gtk-engines
gtk2-patched-filechooser-icon-view
gtk3-patched-filechooser-icon-view
mate-themes
openbox

>> No.65657101

>>65657066
>bring linux to the modern era
>rename directories

Thank you for your valuable contribution to /g/

>> No.65657116

>>65656755
Windows developers can install their software where it please them. So does Linux developers.

>> No.65657125

>>65657066
all gobo linux does is expose what is essentially the package manager db as a filesystem
the only difference in using it is that you use a file manager to browse packages rather than your package manager
it may be easier to visualise ootb, but there's no technical advantage to it

>> No.65657126

>>65657101
not just renaming but restructuring them too
put every config file under /Config
put every development file and includes under /Development
put os specific files which are needed just for the os under /Linux
and so on
think logically

>> No.65657144

>>65657093
found the swecuck. good thing you wont exist in a few decades.

>> No.65657153

>>65656831
>>65656809
this
>>65656891
>It created its own folder in /opt/Vivaldi
wew lad, you have a shit distro

>> No.65657164
File: 4 KB, 207x38, Captura de tela de 2018-04-23 08-51-08.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65657164

Not so hard...

>> No.65657168

>>65657144
> /pol/ opinions

zzz...

>> No.65657169

>>65657065
Admittedly I could be more proficient in bash, but I really don't think it's realistic to expect everybody who is interested in switching from the familiarity of a heavily GUI controlled OS to know bash if at all. I don't think you should be required to, either. You can't tell me you expect everybody to learn bash to use their computer.

>>65657066
This would easily help. Short directory names makes sense if you don't tab to autocomplete the name.
Otherwise I don't see the point.

>>65657093
>Assumes I'm American
>Was talking about drinks, not food
Yeah I guess I should have chosen a piece of technology more relatable to you, your boyfriend's inflatable vibrating arse driller.

>> No.65657174

>>65657043
I don't think I've got a single package that installed itself to /etc that was not all about systemwide configs.

>> No.65657180

>65657126
>every program getting their own directory like /Programs/Firefox , not scattering it through 7 random directories
>put every config file under /Config
So where could I expect my firefox config to be, then?
/Programs/Firefox/Config?
/Config/Firefox?
Or maybe in ~/.firefox or ~/.config/firefox like per-user configs are usually stored right now?

>> No.65657204

>>65657168
how is my post different from yours you inbred retard?

>> No.65657206

>>65657153
>wew lad, you have a shit distro
The guy who create the package of the software chose where to install. You can pretty much compile the same shit and handle the installation path as an argument during the installation process.

>> No.65657225

>>65657204
woah pardner, looks like your upset.

>> No.65657237

>>65656755
Not to mention
>dynamic linking galore

>> No.65657241

>>65657169
>but I really don't think it's realistic to expect everybody who is interested in switching from the familiarity of a heavily GUI controlled OS to know bash if at all.
If they want to switch to a bash oriented OS they probably should.
>You can't tell me you expect everybody to learn bash to use their computer.
I don't, that's why I said you can just use MacOS or Ubuntu and not worry about learning bash.

>> No.65657255

>>65657180
Im on your side here boss, and im may be a complete linux idiot, but i honestly cannot find any firefox config file in either of those locations

>> No.65657277

>>65657241
Why create a GUI for anything in any Linux distro then? You really only use bash for everything? And considering the ire Ubuntu usually gets on /g/ I don't believe you (or at least /g/ as a consensus) really think it's the best experience somebody new to Linux should subject themselves to either.

>> No.65657321

>>65657169
>You can't tell me you expect everybody to learn bash to use their computer.
This mentality is exactly what's wrong with the Windows crowd, you guys are so spoiled by your ease-of-use you think that learning to use your computer is somehow a bad thing, I hate to break it to you but a general-purpose computer is an extremely complex beast. You can't expect something so complicated to be easy to use, you're only limiting yourself if you refuse to learn just how complex a computer really is. Microsoft has done a fantastic job at simplifying things for you but simplification comes at a price, you can only do so much with a pocket knife when compared with a swiss army knife.

>> No.65657331

>>65656774

don't forger appdata and user folder, also system32

>> No.65657338

>>65657277
>Why create a GUI for anything in any Linux distro then?
That's up to the developer. I prefer not to use GUIs, but that's just me. Some people might like to.
>You really only use bash for everything?
I prefer to, but I don't do it for everything.
>And considering the ire Ubuntu usually gets on /g/ I don't believe you (or at least /g/ as a consensus) really think it's the best experience somebody new to Linux should subject themselves to either.
No, I don't think it is. I think it is the best if you want to avoid learning bash commands. If someone was new to Linux and wanted to learn how to use their OS I'd recommend they learn bash. Maybe install Debian or Arch.

>> No.65657393
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65657393

>>65656755
>terminal is scary I'm not a 1337 haxxor
>how do you know what files are without pictures to click on
>why plaintext program files, this isn't the matrix
>lol wtf, the desktop and start menu don't even serve me ads on software I paid for
>lol poorfags don't want to pay $200 for a bloated, broken operating system
You're right, windows is clearly superior.

>> No.65657395

low effort bait, saged

>> No.65657398

>>65657331

but yeah linux file placement is retarded, there should be a separation between user application files and system files

>> No.65657418

>>65657321
Fair enough. I understand your reasoning. But I still don't think most general users are going to need to learn all the complexities of their OS and what it can do.

Linus Torvalds even doesn't fuck with Debian because he had trouble installing it once. Bad user experience puts people off from wanting to delve deeper, especially if their time is particularly precious.

I have time on my hands and am willing to learn, so I will just suck it up and switch distro.

>> No.65657431

Let me break this down for you, essential binaries go in /bin, system binaries go in /sbin, user applications such as Firefox, gedit, virtualbox go in /usr/bin

>> No.65657434

>>65657393
>>65657395
Embarrassing.

>> No.65657452

>>65657431
>not having /bin and /sbin symlinked to /usr/bin

>> No.65657453

>>65657206
why are you trying to tell me things i already know?
competent package maintainers will set the install path to the appropriate place (/usr/bin, with config in /etc and runtime in /var), and if you're installing something manually from source, you know full well where you're installing it beforehand

>> No.65657477

>>65657418
Just remember that learning is a good thing, you're not gonna have a good time trying out Linux if you hate learning, at the end of the day when you're done setting things up you'd know that your computer belongs to you and only answers to you, not some American megacorp.

>> No.65657490
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65657490

>>65657453
>competent package maintainers
Come on, he is probably doing it for free.

>> No.65657493

>>65656755
>Doesn't even have a central location to install software on your filesystem by default
so? how is this automatically a bad thing?
>Have to hunt down where software that fucked up from a few rogue keystrokes installed itself
no, you don't. you just ask your package manager where all the files are. it literally doesn't matter where the files are. if this was in the super early days before package managers, then this might be a problem, but since there are, it's not.

>> No.65657496

>>65657477
>at the end of the day when you're done setting things up you'd know that your computer belongs to you and only answers to you, not some American megacorp.
The best feeling, honestly.

>> No.65657501

>>65656976
That's not how it looks on BR computers.
It's
>C:\Arquivos de programa" and "C:\arquivos de programa (x86)"
Also i would try to say to you that it's not a common thing and stuff, but the city i live on used to have monkeys.
Used to.

>> No.65657532

>>65656976
D E L I C I A
E
L
I
C
I
A

>> No.65657534

>>65657501
it is actually both, see, it's always on disk as "program files", but it also contains a desktop.ini file which is used to override the apparent name of the folder with a localised version
i know this because i've setup systems with users/program files on another disk, i renamed the originals before making a junction point from the new location, and both "Users" and "Users.bak" display in explorer as "Users"

>> No.65657584

Linux requires a different way about thinking about programs and their files in comparison to the way Windows does it, although Windows is trying to change that too because hunting down for files is quite stupid.
You'll get used to the way linux does it, even if you stay on Windows 10.

>> No.65657609

>>65657277
But the reality is, if you want to avoid the terminal and using bash, you should get ubuntu. There's nothing wrong with ubuntu, it's an OS and it works.
Only reason /g/ shits on ubuntu is because we're a bunch of elitists, who like the concept of using a terminal.

Also how simple are you, since you care about what people think about an OS?

>> No.65657706

>>65656755
i love linux but files scattered everywhere is just awful, and even worse, the location varies between distros

>> No.65657754

>>65656891
I'd rather fix my problems as a normie by entering commands in a terminal rather than listen to pajeet try to explain to me where Ctrl+alt+delete is. because Microsoft wants people to think computing is magical and only wizards can crack the 'code.'

>> No.65657796

>>65657754
to be fair you do need a very high iq to understand registry and services

>> No.65657809

>>65657321
Not everyone needs or even want to learn how does computers work, they just want to get things done and enjoy their life. To most of them you we are autistic as fuck for thinking that messing with computer and these hacker words (that's exactly how one of my friends called a script they saw me running once) is a fun hobby.

>> No.65657930

>>65657609
>we're a bunch of elitists
>elitists
i think you misspelled retards

>> No.65657991

>>65656755
>be on Loonix
>want to install a package
>apt/dnf search package
>apt/dnf install package
>want to remove package
>apt/dnf remove package
>need to upgrade the packages and system
>apt/dnf upgrade -y
>automatically removes unneeded dependencies
>have never had a problem with this
Literally just works for everything. I actually prefer the precision of the command line tools since I've learned how to use them properly.

The one thing I will say is that we need a better kernel. The Linux kernel itself is inferior to everything except DOS and XNU, which are the worst kernels I've ever seen. The NT kernel is one of the few things that Windows got right, but it's held back by being closed source and loaded with decades of legacy compatibility. I'm actually excited about the progress that React OS is making. The NT kernel is a very nice example of a properly implemented hybrid kernel, which means it's very modular and great at handling errors and recovering from them without bringing down the whole system. Other than that, there's the Haiku OS kernel which has shit security but a great design, and is another hybrid type kernel. Then there are microkernels like MINIX and HURD, and those are absolutely God-tier. I can't wait until they're as good as QNX (a proprietary microkernel OS for embedded systems).

Go learn about the real tech behind this stuff. You'll be able better appreciate individual components and have a better understand of how operating systems work.

>> No.65658021

>>65657809
Then they dont really need a computer.
They only need a web browser. And they can open a browser on Ubuntu without learning bash.

>> No.65658097

>>65656774
You have to go back, Juanito.

>> No.65658127

>>65658021
And here is where you are wrong. They use proprietary shit to stream music, the Office suite, games and a bunch of Windows programs that the equivalent on GNU+Linux is either a hackjob or just too complex (yeah, terminal is hard and not really intuitive for the average PC user). The ones that only need browsers are on mobile now.

>> No.65658165

>>65656755
Linux is Garbage don't listen to fucks on /g/ they have no life or a taste

>> No.65658179

>>65658127
>They use proprietary shit to stream music
Oh, sorry.
They dont need a computer, they need to die.

>> No.65658252

>>65658179
If you can shitpost on your riced Arch machine right now it is because there's someone getting work done and running the society right now. You should be grateful normies exist, don't let your ideologies take over your brain and fool you.

>> No.65658281
File: 212 KB, 1218x1015, 1508633897554.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65658281

>>65656946
>I want to use my PC for highly paid work, like browsing facebook and twitter

>> No.65658338

>>65658252
i think you'll feel more comfortable at /pol/

>> No.65658347

>>65658338
Why? I never mentioned politics in my posts.

>> No.65658451
File: 38 KB, 596x521, 1521860094889.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65658451

>>65658338
>everything I don't like is /pol/!
He's right you retard, and you are justing shitting memes out your ass at this point. What the fuck happened to this fucking board.

>> No.65658452

>>65658179
>>65658338
cringe

>> No.65658508

>>65656755
>implying windows is any better
>install visual studio
>pick installation directory
>it partially installs to the C drive even if you picked another drive
>registry entries
>start menu entries
>desktop icon
>god knows what the fuck else
>oh yea let's also create another directory in My Documents just to make your efforts to keep shit organized go to waste
>My Documents after 2 years: 10% my documents, 90% files put there against my will by programs I installed
>want to uninstall VS
>uninstall VS
>all the extra shit it installed is left over and the only way to get rid of it is to manually uninstall every single thing by hand

>> No.65658579

>>65657043
>binary files in /etc
you're retarded

>> No.65658593

>>65658508
Microsoft needs to fix that shit already. I don't think it's even hard to make current programs install in a new, unified directory, just create a folder for each program and symlink shit to legacy directories.

>> No.65658606

>>65658593
It's already fixed.
Problem is, nobody wants to update for it/use the new format.

>> No.65658616

>>65657066
t. macfaggot

>> No.65658629

>>65657066
Shouldn't be hard to at least on the surface change the names while retaining all core functions just as they are.
Makes it easy for users, doesn't fuck up for devs/those already used to it.

>> No.65658630

>>65657255
~/.mozilla/firefox
now kill yourself

>> No.65658646

>>65656755
shared libraries mean that you can update vulnerabilities for all applications at once. Also you won't shit up your disk with useless duplicates and 100 different versions.

>> No.65658647

>>65658606
Care to explain? Anyway, what I'm suggesting needs to be enforced by the OS and retarded devs can't avoid it.

>> No.65658649

>>65656891
Because it's garbage fucking software probably with a custom installer. Would you bitch about a windows exe that's "installed" in some self contained folder you leave on your desktop?

>> No.65658657

>>65657452
t. archer

>> No.65658665
File: 37 KB, 479x492, 1516255457457.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65658665

>>65658657
arch is comfy, my man

>> No.65658739

>>65658606
Are you talking about UWP?

>> No.65658782

>>65658647
Appx package management (sometimes also referred to as appxbundle for multiple packages), it's how they want devs to package apps now, streamlines the entire process, gets rid of a lot of mess. Too bad it's only ever really brought up briefly when UWP is talked about and people seem to hate UWP.

>> No.65658804

>>65657398
there is

>> No.65658857

>>65657477
this
only even better I know that I could never have done it on my own and it was all thanks to passionate people who gave their time and expertise to make it happen, not sold user data and hired third world monkeys for it to happen

>> No.65658874

>>65657398
there is though.
/usr/bin
/usr/lib

>> No.65658877

>>65657126
you obviously do not know how Linux works, read a book
it is structured logically if you had taken 2 and a half minutes to read about the logic

>> No.65658894

>>65657277
somebody new to Linux should definitely use Ubuntu
you'll get shit on using it on /g/ because it's simply not the /g/ thing to do, and /g/ isn't for people who are new to Linux anyway

>> No.65658900

>a few rogue keystrokes
User error is not a software issue.

>> No.65658938

>>65656755
System32 is for 64 bit systemfiles and sysWoW64 is for 32 bit ones

>> No.65659029

>>65658782
>and people seem to hate UWP.
Well, thanks to their dick move of restricting it to store only programs (I think they changed this, I dunno). Isn't appx the same thing as UWP tho?

>> No.65659051

>>65658021
>>65658179
>>65658338
woah there, careful with that edge

>> No.65659226

>>65658894
>and /g/ isn't for people who are new to Linux anyway
Technology board, not Linux board. Read the sticky and the rules again.

>> No.65660220

>>65657991
>I'm actually excited about the progress that React OS is making

ReactOS is still going?, didn't they get sued by Microsoft?

>> No.65660545

>>65656925
>sorry m8, but most people couldn't tell you where a program resides on disk in windows either
Ain't that the fuckin truth.
>friend asks for computer help
>"I deleted some old games, but it says that there isn't enough room to install new ones."
>check program files for games
>all there
>check recycle bin
>full of desktop shortcuts

What was worse was that there was games installed in the game folders of other games.

>> No.65660598

>>65660545
exactly, once you realize this is actually pretty typical, then you'll understand why things like the iPad are as popular as they are, despite their massive limitations

>> No.65660644

>>65656755
>I am LITERALLY too stupid to 'which [PROGRAM NAME]'
Wow you sure told us. I guess I'll go back to using Windows 10 home edition

>> No.65660659

>>65659226
>not Linux board
The mods all use Linux and are the same kind of elitists who shit on desktop environments here so good luck convincing them of that.

>> No.65660687

>>65657066
The three letter names exist because they're easier and faster to type. If you can't use a keyboard, why are you using a computer?

>> No.65660726

>>65660659
So what? The do shit against Windows users, every non shitposting Windows related thread I've seen stayed up until the bump limit.

>> No.65660859

>>65660726
Sometimes blatant mac shilling threads get deleted. I gotta pay more attention to the Windows ones.

>> No.65660864

>literally too dumb to use which or find

seriously

>> No.65660875

>>65656954
Ubuntu is safe r-right?

>> No.65660941

>>65656755
>Doesn't even have a central location to install software on your filesystem by default
echo $PATH | tr ":" "\n"

These are the default places applications are installed. If you want to add another directory, just append it to the variable.
>Have to hunt down where software that fucked up from a few rogue keystrokes installed itself
Usually, software that "fucks up" fucks up because of a user configuration or a flaw in the software.
And since most software projects check the software before shipping it, it is most likely the user configuration.
User configuration mostly lies in ~/.config and if it doesn't, contact the programmers and help them fix it.
System wide configuration lies in /etc/.
It does not take a lot of time finding out what to do if you know what program is acting up and even less if you did the configuration.

>> No.65660943

>>65660859
Mac threads are almost always deleted since you basically can't have any tech related talk about them, they are content consumption machines.

>> No.65660967

>>65656755
Use whereis.

>> No.65661153

>>65656755
Windows installs stuff in like what, 7 or 8 different folders? With GNU/Linux everything is in /usr/share, /usr/lib, or /var/lib. Depends on what you're installing really. With Windows on the other hand, libraries are typically included as dlls with programs, meaning you could very well have several different copies of msvcp120.dll on your computer for no reason at all.

>> No.65661322

>>65659029
No, not at all. UWP is the core platform, appx is the box basically. Can install appx bundles outside of the store (which is what some enterprises are doing because they lock out the store).

>> No.65661372

>>65657066
>linux desperately needs a file system hierarchy redesign
It doesn't. It's fine as it is. What it needs is a stable and working "app center" for normies, and a ton of more software getting distributed via flatpaks and appimage.

>> No.65661377

>>65656755
its not like you have program files and program file 86x right

>> No.65661390

>>65656755
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>> No.65661454

>>65656954
>Widevine

Use a browser that doesnt have features that work against your own interests

>> No.65661815

>Windows was more user friendly during windows 98 than modern day Linux
>Linuxfags wonder why it hasn't taken off in the general public yet

>> No.65662074

>>65661390
I'm terribly sorry for interjecting another moment, but what I just told you is GNU/Linux is, in fact, just Linux, or as I've just now taken to calling it, Just Linux. Linux apparently does happen to be a whole operating system unto itself and comprises a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Most computer users who run the entire Linux operating system every day already realize it. Through a peculiar turn of events, I was misled into calling the system "GNU/Linux", and until now, I was unaware that it is basically the Linux system, developed by the Linux project.

There really isn't a GNU/Linux, and I really wasn't using it; it is an extraneous misrepresentation of the system that's being used. Linux is the operating system: the entire system made useful by its included corelibs, shell utilities, and other vital system components. The kernel is already an integral part of the Linux operating system, never confined useless by itself; it functions coherently within the context of the complete Linux operating system. Linux is never used in combination with GNU accessories: the whole system is basically Linux without any GNU added, or Just Linux. All the so-called "GNU/Linux" distributions are really distributions of Linux.

>> No.65662512

>>65661153
dependency hell.

>> No.65662688

>>65661153
my solidworks install;
> find . -name "msvcp120.dll"
./Program Files/Pale Moon/msvcp120.dll
./Program Files/SOLIDWORKS Corp/SOLIDWORKS/cefRuntime/msvcp120.dll
./Program Files/SOLIDWORKS Corp/SOLIDWORKS Visualize/Plugins/Simlab.plugin/Importers/msvcp120.dll
./Users/mikurok/AppData/Local/Microsoft/OneDrive/17.3.6381.0405/amd64/msvcp120.dll
./Users/mikurok/AppData/Local/Microsoft/OneDrive/17.3.6381.0405/msvcp120.dll

5 copies and none are even in the windows folder
this is better than one copy in /lib how?

>> No.65662870

>>65657169
>but I really don't think it's realistic to expect everybody who is interested in switching from the familiarity of a heavily GUI controlled OS to know bash if at all. I don't think you should be required to, either. You can't tell me you expect everybody to learn bash to use their computer.
No, literally nobody expects you to do this, please just fuck off back to windows. Linux is for people who know what they are doing with a computer, if you want to use it then learn or fuck off, your endless crying about "intuitiveness" isn't going to make anyone handhold you through the process of using Linux.
Literally nobody gives a shit about market share or desktop adoption, nobody wants you brainlets asking for linux to turn into windows, nobody wants you brainlets asking dumb questions all the time, just fuck off.

>> No.65662885

>>65661153
Better than a broke package after a dependency update desu

>> No.65662963

>>65662870
one of the biggest reasons linux is not as hand-holding as windows is because linux is made by the people who use it, and the people who use it have no need for it to be any easier to get into, since they're already into it.
with things like windows, people are paid to try to find ways to make things more accessible
it sounds like linux devs are just being elitist, but that's really not the case, they're not "trying to make it hard", they're just focusing on what matters /to them/. if you don't agree with something, you change it yourself, that's literally what linux is about, that's the entire point, if that didn't happen, linux would simply not exist.

>> No.65662995

>>65662870
Heh, you think you can fend off the normies.
They're coming, and they're changing linux for the better.
Enjoy.

>> No.65663011

>>65662963
basically, linux is "by devs, for devs (themselves)", and windows is "by devs, for consumers"
totally different mindset/process, with linux you have nobody to complain to but yourself.

>> No.65663087
File: 6 KB, 261x195, 1521201963732.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65663087

>>65662870
>muh sekrit club
It's because people like you everybody thinks Linux and FOSS community is toxic as fuck. No wonder why Ubuntu is so successful, it was the first distro that tried to help the user instead of making him sit on a dragon dildo every time he tried to use the computer or get any help. Also, every time you face a bug, remember that it is only there because someone that could fix said bug didn't want to waste his time because of cancers like you.

>> No.65663106

>>65662995
I don't see these "normies" submitting a single line of code to help usher this "change for the better", so I don't think they will. Most they'll do is bitch and moan like OP does and then go back to whatever OS they came from.

>> No.65663117

>>65663011
linux (on the desktop, or as I like to refer to it as, ubuntu+alternatives) is "by autists, for autists", windows is "by autists, for everyone". Although post 8 that's changed to "by normies, for normies".

>> No.65663120

>>65662995
>better
I've seen android, I've seen windows, I've seen OSX, and I've seen where freedesktop/redhat/lennart&co are pushing things, and absolutely none of it is "better". the whole reason I use linux is to get away from tbe brain dead add more complexity and then hide it well mentality. It can all literally go fuck itself.

The only good thing normies can bring to linux is their foot kissing routines when you go and fix some bug which coincidentally also affected them.

>> No.65663150

>>65663106
>>65663120
honey, you've got a big storm coming if you can't see the very obvious normie rush about to happen as they 1) cant use windows 7 anymore 2) continue hating nuWindows 3) keep getting shilled linux distros 4) start believing everyone can be a good 'coder' because karlie says so
but hey, don't say I didn't warn ya!

>> No.65663176

>>65663087
>>muh sekrit club
nobody is stopping you from using linux, in fact, most linux users encourage the use of linux
what you don't seem to understand is that linux is not made by a company, it is not a product which is sold, it has no target audience.
it's just a bunch of software made by people who wanted to make them, they owe you nothing, you have no grounds to make demands of them
if you want to be able to demand support, there are options available, however, for example, canonical and red hat have paid support services where you can /expect/ help

>> No.65663203

>>65663087
>It's because people like you everybody thinks Linux and FOSS community is toxic as fuck.
Good, less normies == better. Making it unintuitive to use didn't work, so making it toxic is the next step.
> someone that could fix said bug
Don't you worry, I fix a lot of the bugs I encounter. The same can't be said for idiots like OP.
>>65663150
I guess OpenBSD is the next place to go. And then in 20 years someone will have either used advanced bait-and-switch tactics to fool weblets into replacing their beloved html/css/js shit with something sane or someone will have found a way to write a web browser which doesn't suck and runs on Plan9 and I can migrate to 9front.

>> No.65663314

>>65663150
I've seen the same "people won't take Microsoft's shit anymore!" thing said so many times, going from 95/98 to XP, XP to Vista/7, and now 7 to 10 that I'd honestly love to see it actually happen. But I already know it won't, because people will ultimately stick to what they know no matter how shitty it gets. Besides, even if people flock to something like Ubuntu and whatever other entry level distros, you can always use another distro, create your own distro or build LFS. That's the great thing about Linux; you can do it yourself. You don't have to wait for someone to come and wipe your ass for you.

>> No.65663329

>use a good graphical wrapper for your package manager
>easily find new packages
>see what it installs
>see where it installs it
windows would certainly be more usable if it had something like this, but instead it uses windows store to preload candy crush

>> No.65663352
File: 1.14 MB, 1280x720, packagegui.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65663352

>>65663329
forgot webm

>> No.65663415

>>65658593
It's a lot worse than you think. Most of the time the reason we binplace shit there is because fuckers hardcode paths. That's why %WINDIR%\System32 actually holds the 64bit OS files. We spend a lot of time and money making sure legacy works and that's why Windows still maintains a huge userbase, it's also how we took over in the first place. Legacy is a bitch to maintain and carries costs, but it also makes people happy. That being said we've tried several times to standardized only to not be able to.

>> No.65663433

>>65656755
Windows:
>C:\Program Files
>C:\Program Files (x86)
>C:\user\<username>\AppData\Local
>C:\user\<username>\AppData\Roaming
>C:\user\<username>\AppData\LocalLow
>C:\games
>C:\<program name>
>C:\<company name>\<program name>
>C:\

+bonus points for having to know these instead of using echo $PATH
++bonus points for using fucking backslashes so i have to escape them when programming for winshit
+++bonus points for no which command
Loonix:
>/bin
>/usr/bin
>/usr/local/bin
>/opt/bin

*not counting the sbins because you dont install shit there

>> No.65663583

I find these posts hilarious. It's the exact equivalent of a mexican writing in a English forum: "english is puta madre hard, america is retard, fuck america"

>> No.65663603

>>65657532
macaco

>> No.65663624

Oh, look, the bait post of the day.

Move on, guys. Move on.

>> No.65663658

>>65663433
Yes, Windows actually cares about legacy compatibility.

>> No.65663679

>>65663415
I think a lot of people forget that the evolution of the windows API is too continuous to allow for a "legacy"/"modern" mode of isolation. There are too many intermediate pieces to worry about. One software distribution (e.g. some vidya game) may have been developed across 3 full iterations of Windows, which would mean that it potentially leverages API changes across that entire time span. You can't just pick a functionality date on a calendar and say "ok this is it, anything developed before here is legacy and lives in the dungeon".

That said, Microsoft may gain enough mindshare on UWP or some other platform at which point it could make sense to shut off the Win32 API, but that is decade(s) out from today.

>> No.65663684

>>65663624
Bait or not, there are people who legitimately think the way OP does.

>> No.65663695

>>65663314
That's rarely ever been the case. Especially when reliance on native apps was far more than how everybody nowadays just needs a working browser. Right now, it's the perfect storm.
Also, you must be unaware of actual sweeping changes like systemd, that's only the beginning.

>> No.65663698

>>65663658
>Windows actually cares about legacy compatibility.
>cant run 16 bit exes
>>>/v/

>> No.65663730

>>65663698
ummmmmm https://www.groovypost.com/howto/enable-16-bit-application-support-windows-10/

>> No.65663744
File: 48 KB, 592x480, Screen-Shot-2016-04-19-at-7.03.04-PM-592x480.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65663744

>>65663698
Actually, it literally can almost OOTB.

>> No.65663769

>>65663698
>>65663730
>>65663744
but it cant run 8 bit exes

>> No.65663787

>>65663769
Correct. If you have autism this intense, an emulator for your 8-bit platform of choice is recommended.

>> No.65663827

>>65663658
>/bin used to contain the programs necessary to mount /usr on the days it wasn't possible for the system to fit in a single hard-drive.
>In the 70's.
Wow, imagine if Linux actually cared too.

>> No.65663854

>>65656755
roaming

>> No.65664348

>>65656774
>C:\Archivos de programa
And
>C:\Archivos de programa (x86)

Are VIRTUAL paths for
>C:\Program Files
And
>C:\Program Files (x86)

YOU FUCKING RETARD.

>> No.65666148

>>65657991
>.exe installer from 20 years ago
>still works on Windows 10
>the Linux package doesn't exist anymore
THIS is the problem with "package management".

>> No.65667772

>>65666148
Ideally, the software is still maintained. Vim is 26 years old yet is still receiving updates. If the software is no longer maintained, there is probably a good reason for that.

>> No.65667931

>>65656809
This but unironically.
This is the reason Windows is superior

>> No.65668205
File: 18 KB, 800x400, 1518419873023.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65668205

>>65656833

>> No.65669140

>>65666148
that's something i thought of early on into linux, but i soon realized that it's a non-issue. there's just no need to run unmaintained software
thanks to the nature of foss, anyone can pick a project up when the original developer drops it, this means anything worthwhile is maintained by /someone/, or there's at least a replacement for it which is maintained
there simply is no need to run stuff that hasn't been touched in 20 years, and even in the exceedingly rare case that you want to, you probably can, perhaps with some effort tracking down ancient libraries to go with it, or updating it to use newer libraries

>> No.65669147

>>65669140
No, they can't just pick it up. The vast majority have no fucking idea how to make it work.

>> No.65669173

>>65656774
> He forgot %APPDATA%

>> No.65669178

>>65669147
it only takes one
the biggest issue with outdated software on linux is the availability of libraries, once /those/ become outdated, then things can get tricky
linux itself doesn't break userspace, linus is really set on that
if you have a 20 year old binary and it's libraries, it /will/ work

>> No.65669193

>>65669147
>>65669178
oh yea, worst case (or lazy case), just run an old distro in a chroot, problem solved

>> No.65669358

>>65669178
It only takes one that wants to use that specific package. On top of that closed source software won't work at all. A large chunk of useful software is closed source.

>>65669193
Or I could just be using Windows and use the old .exe.

>> No.65669443

>>65669358
>A large chunk of useful software is closed source.
Depends on what you mean by useful. In my experience most closed crap is just shoddy implementations of some existing open crap but with a nicer UI and less features.
The only closed shit on this laptop is steam and a few games.

>> No.65669547

>>65656891
>It created its own folder in /opt/Vivaldi
more software should do this again
>nb4 babies who can't into $PATH

>> No.65669605

>>65669443
But what do you do? The average GNU/Linux user on /g/ is the kind of nerdy developer type that free software developers focus on almost exclusively and for most of those use cases there are tons of pieces of open/free software that are absolutely peerless.

But there are plenty of uses other than software development and basic general use.

>> No.65669622

>>65669605
Linux is an ecosystem for people who wrote it and freeloaders who contribute nothing but at least stay quiet. What did you expect?
Want an operating system suitable for your needs but linux or the existing proprietary options doesn't work for you? Go write your own then.
Also, don't incorrectly associate all of the linux ecosystem with freetards. They're freeloaders as well, just slightly more active ones.

>> No.65669667

>>65669622
Was this supposed to back up the post I quoted or something? This is exactly why free software isn't always the superior choice for a number of use cases, it's generally by developers for developers, while there are plenty of commercial outfits targeting use cases and markets free software developers and users by and large don't care for.

>> No.65669817

>>65669667
Are you arguing that the Linux ecosystem should change to accommodate for these other users? Because if you're not then there's no problem here.
Just ignore anyone who tries to shove Linux down your throat if it's not suitable for your uses, if anyone tells you that Linux needs more market share or more users then you know they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. All "more users" and "more market share" has bought us is crap like systemd and the rest of freedesktop.
And if you still insist on using linux then at least don't be like OP, nobody likes a whiny bitch, if you want something fixed then help fix it yourself and if your idea is shot down then fork or find something else.

>> No.65671134

>>65660220
I'm not sure, but the project is still going strong. They recently picked up speed and now they're getting closer and closer to a 1.0 release. Microsoft suing them would be an exercise in futility because React OS doesn't actually use any Windows code. It's written from scratch, and is built to provide an environment that's win32 compatible. It does a surprisingly good job of this too. I expect that within the next 2-4 years it will be able to completely replace Windows XP in terms of functionality and support for legacy software.

>>65666148
This only applies to closed source Linux applications. If all you have is .deb file, you could just fire up a VM running a really ancient version of Debian and run it there. Thankfully, most Linux software is open source. Even if there's no maintained binary, you can still build the application from source. You might need to resolve a bunch of versioning and dependency issues, but for the most part you can take 20 year old Linux software, compile, and run it. You can also take that same 20 year old exe file and run it in a Windows VM or in WINE and it'll work great 9 times out of 10. React OS will also run that binary just fine. Making backwards compatibility optional in GNU/Linux is what makes is faster and lighter. The lack of compatibility is also not the fault of the kernel, but rather the userland, which is the software built on top of the kernel.

If Microsoft was smart about things, they'd make a new version of Windows 10 that's essentially 64-bit only. It only runs on 64-bit hardware with 64-bit drivers, and only runs 64-bit software. Then you offer a separate optional installer for a package or series of packages that would install a subsystem for win32 compatibility. It would probably make the whole OS twice as fast and double battery life.

>> No.65671668

>>65667772
>>65669140
Except software quality (both free and non-free) is going down with time, not up. And significantly so. Not being able to run ancient stuff is an enormous problem these days.
>>65671134
Do you not understand that "resolving a bunch of versioning and dependency issues" often entails rewriting the program from scratch? Let alone after 20 years?

>> No.65671921

>>65671668
You got a citation for your claim there?

>> No.65671970

>>65671921
Which claim? I made several, none of which would be particularly easy to find sources for but all of which are common sense in actual tech circles these days - hopefully including /g/.

>> No.65671982

>>65671970
>Except software quality (both free and non-free) is going down with time, not up. And significantly so. Not being able to run ancient stuff is an enormous problem these days.

Proof before belief.

>> No.65672040
File: 924 KB, 500x333, 1490969329745.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65672040

>>65671668
>>65666148

I know what you are referring to, but if the developer did not intend to make the program portable it is his fault and his alone. If he adhered to POSIX and does not need external shit the program is backwards compatible.

>> No.65672053

Since this thread was created, what’s the command for terminal that lets me install my windows video games? Clicking the exe just gives me an error or something. I must need to open it via terminal.

>> No.65672247

>>65672053
Download PlayOnLinux > manage wine versions and add the latest one > install software using the latest version > navigate to exe

>> No.65672287

>>65672247
That sounds super complicated. Can’t I just do something like ./lionsheart.exe ?

>> No.65672337

>>65672287
>that's sounds complicated
You literally open playonlinux and select which file you want to install. You can install WINE and double click exe files to open them, but most things won't work correctly.

>> No.65672350

>>65656825
If it's currently running, right-click the process in the Task Manager and choose "go to location".

If it's not running, Start -> VirtualBox -> Right-click -> Go to location

The "go to location" might be worded differently; I'm just going by memory.

>> No.65672567

>>65656755
>Have to hunt down where software that fucked up from a few rogue keystrokes installed itself
In what scenario does this happen in when using a package manager? It doesn't. It happens when installing software from outside of the package manager, like using make, in which case this has nothing to do with Linux but the installation system.
>>65663329
>>65663352
On Ubuntu:
>easily find new packages
$ apt search pkg
or
$ apt show <keyword + tab completion>
>see what it installs
$ apt show pkg
>see where it installs it
Why do you need to see where it installs? The entire point of a package manager is it handles installation for you. Generally, all binaries will be installed in the systemwide $PATH. You can also use the whereis or which command. A GUI frontend is a crutch, even useless if you ask me, because the CLI integrates so well especially with tab completion.

>> No.65673016

>>65656755
lmao you can literally do whatever the fuck you want.

you want some "/Program Files" in linux, you can do it. you can statically link all your bullshit and suit your autism however you want.

your problems are 100% your own and likely spawn of ignorance or laziness.

>> No.65673024

>>65656755
put it in your path faggot.

RTFM, what is wrong with children these days????

>> No.65673477

>>65671982
I'm not aware of any objective measure of software quality. I am, however, aware that I prefer to use older (often even discontinued) programs whenever feasible, and I'm not alone.

>> No.65674414

>>65656976
That's Spanish you retard

>> No.65674435

>>65657066
god no

>> No.65674559

>>65657066
i quite like the 'integrated' approach of unix, where things are separated by purpose rather than what program they belong to. it encourages resource sharing between programs
sure, there's a few aspects which are outdated, like the separation of /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin (some distros like arch merge them all together by means of symlinks), and the names don't really need to be super short anymore, with things like tab-completion
but renaming them has too little an advantage to be worth breaking things over, and before you say "use symlinks", you could just make symlinks to new names right now, if you wanted to, there's no incentive to change programs to use a new name if the old name remains available

>> No.65674570

/bin.
if it's not there, it's absolute shitware that shouldn't be installed in the first place

>> No.65674832

>>65656825
why would it ever be a 32bit version

>> No.65674861

>>65674832
tons of windows programs are still 32bit, for some reason

>> No.65674883

>>65656755
>find / | grep "software"
why're you using linux if you're such a brainlet?

>> No.65674903

>>65656891
>I just find it hilarious people think Linux will become have majority desktop and laptop marketshare when things like this are completely unintuitive.

>be on windows
>hmm where did the program install
>lets see
>appdata, there it is. program files. Oh look it's also in downloads and desktop. oly shit why did it install into documents? Hmm. I wish I could just get a list of this shit, rather than having to search for it like this fuck
>meanwhile, on linux
>"which"

>> No.65674943

>>65674883
I wanna be l33t h4xx0r.

>> No.65674949

>>65656755
This has been one of my pet peeves for years. I wish they'd come up with a standard that all files need to go to a central place unless otherwise specified.

Linux always gets me with unintuative shit. I feel like I missed a day of class when i'm using it and expected to use some information or tool I wasn't made aware of.

>> No.65674977

>>65656755
Because Windows programs are so easy to clean out of the registry (good luck), AppData (which is about three locations in and of itself), two different Program Files directories, your home directory, ProgramData and recently WindowsApps as well. Yeah right.

>> No.65674993

>>65656755
OP I don't know what you are talking about.
Linux is just a kernel.
All of my programs are in /nix/store/

>> No.65675039

>>65674861
I know, but who runs 32bit VirtualBox?

>> No.65675127
File: 105 KB, 645x729, 1523717071131.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65675127

>an entire thread about a filesystem path used by installers to place executable and then link to them by text file
>an entire thread

>> No.65675204

>>65675127
>link to them by text file
go to sleep
>an entire thread
I know, shh, shh..

>> No.65675328
File: 132 KB, 1000x647, 1466394497969.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65675328

>>65657066
>a file system hierarchy redesign
>renames /usr to /user

wow you've really put a lot of thought into this haven't you

>> No.65675554

>>65673477
That is mere nostalgia and not a measure of quality.

>> No.65675771

>>65657066
>usr (which doesn't stand for user) or etc (which doesn't stand for etcetera)
then what does it stand for?

>> No.65675839

>>65675771
etc does stand for etcetera, and usr did originally stand for user (as in where user home directories went), though the latter hasn't been the case for literally 45 years
these names are super old, and neither are used quite as they were in the 70's, making them nearly meaningless

>> No.65676492

>>65675328
Way to entirely ignore the rest of the post that anon wrote. There is a logic behind the structure of *nix FSH, but it has its roots in the mainframe era and was never sensible for personal computing. For example, there's no sensible analogy between the pairs of /bin and /sbin vs /usr/bin and /usr/sbin, and there's zero compelling rationale for having separate /man directories. Your pic shows four, FOUR different /lib directories. Is that really necessary? There's a reason why gobolinux exists, and I think it's a good one.

>> No.65677166

>>65675771
unix system resources

>> No.65677290

>>65656755
>Kernel Doesn't even have a central location to install software on your filesystem by default
who could have thought

>> No.65677317
File: 17 KB, 448x336, autism.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
65677317

>>65656755
>>Linux is objectively better than Windows

>>
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