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64097853 No.64097853 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

tl;dr: There is evidence of a massive Intel CPU hardware bug (currently under embargo) that directly affects big cloud providers like Amazon and Google. The fix will introduce notable performance penalties on Intel machines (30-35%).

People have noticed a recent development in the Linux kernel: a rather massive, important redesign (page table isolation) is being introduced very fast for kernel standards... and being backported! The "official" reason is to incorporate a mitigation called KASLR... which most security experts consider almost useless. There's also some unusual, suspicious stuff going on: the documentation is missing, some of the comments are redacted (https://twitter.com/grsecurity/status/947147105684123649) and people with Intel, Amazon and Google emails are CC'd.

According to one of the people working on it, PTI is only needed for Intel CPUs, AMD is not affected by whatever it protects against (https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2). PTI affects a core low-level feature (virtual memory) and has severe performance penalties: 29% for an i7-6700 and 34% for an i7-3770S, according to Brad Spengler from grsecurity. PTI is simply not active for AMD CPUs. The kernel flag is named X86_BUG_CPU_INSECURE and its description is "CPU is insecure and needs kernel page table isolation".

Microsoft has been silently working on a similar feature since November: https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/930412525111296000

People are speculating on a possible massive Intel CPU hardware bug that directly opens up serious vulnerabilities on big cloud providers which offer shared hosting (several VMs on a single host), for example by letting a VM read from or write to another one.

Summary article: http://pythonsweetness.tumblr.com/post/169166980422/the-mysterious-case-of-the-linux-page-table (a bit outdated, follow @grsecurity, @scarybeasts and others on Twitter for up-to-date info)

This is going to make headlines and will probably be the worst hardware bug in years.

>> No.64097902
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>Lisa Su's face when

>> No.64097975
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Microsoft is sending emails about planned Azure VM reboots on early January (see pic).

Some more links:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16046636 Hacker News discussion
https://lwn.net/Articles/742404/ Kernel page-table isolation merged in unusual conditions

Real-time tweets about it:

>> No.64097987

Ha ha looks like chinks smelled it ages ago and are busy stockpiling on EBYN.

>> No.64098028

>Intel lets VMs freely snoop each other
What in the name of fuck.
The fuck.

>> No.64098033

So does this impact home users in any way? I run VMs for testing out my software and I'm using Fedora as the host OS. What now? Am I going to take a massive performance hit when using these VMs? I use them locally and I don't have any remote access to them set up. Does this impact the overall performance when using the host OS?

Really, what the hell? I'm about to buy one of those POWER9 workstations. They're expensive but I'm willing to pay more for shit that works.

>> No.64098048

You won't be affected as long as your VMs are isolated.
But anyway, buy AMD.

>> No.64098103

>as long as your VMs are isolated
And what does unisolated means ? How do you check that ?

>> No.64098115


>buying Intel which has hardware backdoors and now hardware bugs in them

Should've bought AMD instead son

>> No.64098125

AMD also has backdoors (though it's a TrustZone implementation, aka not designed by retards at Intel).

>> No.64098129

Apparently it might be related to speculative execution:
>The AMD microarchitecture does not allow memory references, including speculative references, that access higher privileged data when running in a lesser privileged mode when that access would result in a page fault.

Some people are saying it might be related to this: https://cyber.wtf/2017/07/28/negative-result-reading-kernel-memory-from-user-mode/

Basically, Intel CPUs might speculatively execute privileged instructions from unprivileged code, and the results can be obtained via side channels even if the speculation was wrong.

If you use an Intel CPU, then Linux PTI/the equivalent Windows fix will be active and you'll take a significant performance hit. It seems you'll be able to disable PTI through a kernel flag in Grub for example: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/145

But it might affect you even if you aren't a cloud provider. For example, mere JavaScript code executed in the browser could read/write kernel memory (and basically pwn you).

>> No.64098137

>buy AMD
I've considered it. The only reason why I put this Intel workstation together last year was because I have the option to use ME cleaner to disable the Intel ME, and it's working fine. AMD has the PSP which is even more obscure with no way to disable it, and it's a massive security risk. Non-x86 platforms don't have this problem and I can still run x86 software at reasonable speeds in VMs on it.

>> No.64098148
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Lol, enjoy your fix intel

>> No.64098163

linfags btfo

>> No.64098168

PSP is a TrustZone implementation, it's much less of a risk than Intel's retardation because multiple vendors use it thus making ARM give a fuck about it.

>> No.64098184

>For example, mere JavaScript code executed in the browser could read/write kernel memory (and basically pwn you).
And I though suicidal Avoton/Rangeley Atoms were bad enough.

>> No.64098185
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See >>64098125 and >>64098137

>then Linux PTI/the equivalent Windows fix will be active and you'll take a significant performance hit
Well fuck. Do you know if it will also decrease the performance of software running on the bare metal? If it doesn't I guess a temporary fix would be to buy a few external hard disks and install the operating systems on those instead to use for testing. It's far less convenient than using VMs but I could work with that. Or I could give each virtual machine an extra core.

It's still untrusted hardware that's tampering with the boot process in ways that it shouldn't, so I'm not thrilled about it.

>> No.64098186

>Urgent development of a software mitigation is being done in the open and recently landed in the Linux kernel, and a similar mitigation began appearing in NT kernels in November.

>> No.64098200

>It's still untrusted hardware that's tampering with the boot process in ways that it shouldn't, so I'm not thrilled about it.
ARM also has it, and POWER are useless housefires.
PSP is manageable (looks like the final implementation would allow UEFI to kill it post-boot).

>> No.64098204

>I can still run x86 software at reasonable speeds in VMs on it.
Really? I'm very interested on this (running virtualized x86 on non-x86 hardware at acceptable speeds) but don't want to derail this thread, could you make a new thread about it and link it?

>> No.64098220

you can disable psp in asrock board,

feel bad, im using asus
fuckin jewasus still not give the option

>> No.64098224

Looks like it's a part of implementation.
ANUS would probably have it eventually.

>> No.64098235


One (1) X299 Raid Key ($299 MSRP) has been sent to your home adress.

Thanks again for correcting the record.

/Intel CS Team

>> No.64098277


>ARM also has it

Trustzone != Intel ME
Rockchip ARM processors can be booted fully open source
No binary blobs required

Qualcomm and Exynos are botnet


>> No.64098296

>Rockchip ARM processors can be booted fully open source
>No binary blobs required
I too love eating trash for the sake of freedumbz.
Goddamit, stalldrones are the worst.

>> No.64098335

Wait a sec. Which Asrock boards have been updated with agesa? The x370 taichi is still stuck on using bios 3.20.

>> No.64098338


ARM is objectively superior to X86
Fewer cycles per instructions


>> No.64098339


Different anon, but can you go into more detail? I've been thinking of getting a ThinkPad and the constant news of security fuck ups form Intel make me wonder if I should save up and buy a Ryzen powered A series.

>It's still untrusted hardware that's tampering with the boot process in ways that it shouldn't, so I'm not thrilled about it.
well there haven't been as many stories about AMD fucking up the security of their processors and between the two AMD's much more likely to open source PSP, as remote is that would seem right now. Both companies should at least be showing the source code, if not publicly, to independent researchers.

>> No.64098346

>Fewer cycles per instructions
And more instructions to do the same fucking job as x86.
Eat shit stalldrone.

>> No.64098358

>AMD's much more likely to open source PSP
They will NEVER, EVER do that until hyperscale or goverment buys their CPUs.
But they do allow disabling it on some boards right now.

>> No.64098370
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>ARM also has it
This doesn't make me like it.

>and POWER are useless housefires
No, not really. They run a little hot which makes it shit in laptops but in servers and desktops it's great with proper cooling.

>would allow UEFI to kill it post-boot
Here's the thing. I don't want it active at all. With Intel I have the ME firmware stripped to just the Bring Up module which does very basic hardware init and power manage and handoff to the BIOS for higher level hardware startup tasks. That's still too much and leaves a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing. I should be able to completely remove the PSP firmware and have the thing not boot at all, and have only the BIOS handle hardware and bootloader and/or kernel startup. I don't want any blackbox co-processor bullshit at all. I don't use secure boot or disks larger than 2TB so UEFI and the PSP don't do anything for me that a $15 kensington lock and common sense can't.

>could you make a new thread about it and link it?
There's not really a good reason not to discuss alternatives here and I'm lazy. Basically I've used POWER at work and you can virtualize x86_64 hardware pretty well with it. When I say well, I mean that it's not hard to get the same speeds you would out of an average higher end laptop or a low-mid range prebuilt desktop. You aren't going to get as good performance as you would on Intel or AMD hardware but it's definitely good enough for testing out the Windows and OS X software I work on. QEMU support is really good because of the enterprise adoption of POWER hardware. As far as my consumer experience with it goes, the closest thing I've used is PPC Macs, which aren't really a good comparison except I can say that the Debian repos still have a good selection of somewhat up to date software for it.

I still don't want or need something that I can't verify to not be malicious. I don't trust it.

>> No.64098388

>Here's the thing. I don't want it active at all.
Then get a tinfoil hat and run away into the woods away from the evulz botnet.

>> No.64098401


yfw 1.3GHz ARM A11 benchmarks as high as 3.5GHz Intel laptop


Intel on suicide watch

>> No.64098413

That's like measuring HPC performance with a fucking LINPACK.
Eat shit ARMdrone.

>> No.64098439


Yes, it's exactly like making an objective measure of performance and seeing the X86 architecture crumble under the load

>> No.64098445

>smallkernels in L1$
I request another "Linus against ARM shill inhabiting RWT forums" rant.

>> No.64098461

>follow @grsecurity, @scarybeasts and others on Twitter for up-to-date info

Posts like these should be fucking banned.

Stop advertising twitters. If something new comes up, you should post it here.

>> No.64098467
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>it's tinfoil to not want a ring -3 hardware backdoor that could be exploited and used by criminals if it's not already being exploited by big companies or the government
You sound like one of the asshats that unironically thought UEFI was a good idea. Why are you in favor of maximizing the attack surface of system critical, low level hardware and software? Were you dropped on the head as a child? Help me understand what kind of mental retardation you're suffering from.

>> No.64098493

How the fuck can it actually be exploited?
The only currently available way to breach IME requires direct physical access to attacked PC.
And you can't even breach the fucking TrustZone, you schizo!
Fucking stalldrones.
It's also unrelated to fucking bug in the OP (you know, the one that *actually* matters.).

>> No.64098505

Well, Brad Spengler and Chris Evans are reputable security experts and they were discussing it, so I thought it would be a good recommendation to point that out. Advertising wasn't my intention.

>> No.64098512

This is actually worse than the fucking TLB bug.
EPYC sales will skyrocket Q1/Q2 2018.

>> No.64098542

>EPYC sales will skyrocket Q1/Q2 2018.
This, from the looks of things, many companies will have no choice if the "fix" effects performance as badly as people are saying.

>> No.64098543
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>The only currently available way
>And you can't even
I've heard it all before. Why should I even entertain the possibility of being vulnerable to an attack like that when I don't even utilize the extra hardware for anything? It's just there for no reason and carries with it the potential for future security problems. Common sense is telling me that I should buy hardware without any management engines at all until I can fully disable it in the platforms that do have it. I don't care if the software is better written that that Jewtel is putting out. It's all bad and AMD engineers are not perfect. I've already been burned once and I'm not trying to get burned again, you fucking idiot.

>> No.64098555

>tfw you think it can never happen
>tfw you think Intel can protect your computer on a thread about the latest Intel fuckup
fucking kek m8

>> No.64098562


I hope it coincide with the release of ZEN based APU for mass market desktops.

>> No.64098574
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>yfw Icelake-SP is already past the tapeout and nothing will fix it

>> No.64098581
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>tfw i don’t have data i’m attached too

Feels comfy.

>> No.64098588
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>I still don't want or need something that I can't verify to not be malicious. I don't trust it.
I often feel this way but my use case can't always be served by old or low performance hardware. here's a libertarian wallpaper.

>They will NEVER, EVER do that until hyperscale or goverment buys their CPUs.
maybe I'm being too optimistic but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. 4 years ago people on this board would have said the same thing about the quality of open source video drivers. News stories like the one in the op are becoming more frequent so I'm not going to completely rule out the possibility.

>But they do allow disabling it on some boards right now.
seriously? Any chance my motherboard is one of those chip sets? This would greatly please the snake

he's probably an underage normalfag from Reddit. I always suspect people with no regard for privacy or security are dumb kids from Reddit.

>> No.64098589
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Who here ryzen

>> No.64098611

Might be a good time to get your shit out of "The Cloud". I don't imagine this is going to be a smooth ride for a little while.

>> No.64098626

Or you can simply move your VMs to EPYC machines.
Your happy AMD merchant would always like to help you.

>> No.64098664

I mean that there's bound to be a rough patch for customers due to server issues caused by the patch, and probably some problems caused by hardware changes, should those servers move to AMD.

>> No.64098697

poozen checking in, intelfags on suicide watch

>> No.64098704
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Oy vey, this is bad

Oy vey...

>> No.64098708

Is there a list of processors affected by this bug, and the performance hit they will take?

>> No.64098713

Looks like everything remotely recent Intel.

>> No.64098732

Dude, this is not *bad*.
This is "TLB bug"-tier catastrophe.

>> No.64098748

g-guys is it happening?


>> No.64098752

>>64098708 It's been said that it can decrease performance by 50%.

>> No.64098761
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>> No.64098762

>literally too lazy to upgrade hardware
LOL is there anything better than being a lazy fuck

>> No.64098801
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Guys, is this really the happening that takes down intel?

>> No.64098803

Just how 'recent' is 'recent'?
All the i7 lineup, even going as far back as the i7 2600? Core2Duo?

>it can decrease performance by 50%
From what I've seen that varies depending on the processor, which is why a list of affected models and performance hits would be handy, is it too early to tell?

>> No.64098804

It's their own TLB bug.
This is so fucking bad.

>> No.64098806
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>share same calendar as the following years
>1900, 1906, 1917, 1923, 1934, 1945, 1951, 1962, 1973, 1979, 1990, 2001, 2007
>1934 to 1945

Oy vey, this year is antisemitic

>> No.64098820

Assuming it's related to speculative execution, the list will go up a while back.
Like, a WHILE back.

>> No.64098821
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intel, not even once™

>> No.64098833

Honestly, no.
But, it's a very good start for 2018. Here's what will happen this year that will fuck them up, in no particular order.

>amd's existence
>two biggest platforms (apple and microsoft) pushing ARM exclusive devices with emulation (no intel at all)
>growing anti-israel sentiment
>stale executives who can't stop fucking up

It's a good year. :)

>> No.64098848

How much better is ARM compared to x86 and x86_64?

>> No.64098857

go back to /pol/, kid. stop inserting this anti jew /pol/ bullshit on the thread

>> No.64098861

Same shit, different ISA.
And most SoCs are vendor locked-in shitfests.

>> No.64098885

Oy gevalt! Another Shoah! Shut it down!

>> No.64098892 [DELETED] 

Now is the time for Apple to step in. The A11 chip is already more powerful than an i5, once this happens Apple will be in a position to be a big player on the CPU market by putting A chips in their Macs.



>> No.64098919

It's not a direct comparison, so I can't answer that. However, all major players are turning to ARM which has had way more progress in recent years and is a complete battery beast. Which isn't so important to desktops, for obvious reasons, but desktops can still benefit due to smaller sizes, less power consumption, and less Intel.

You have to be pretty blind to not see the anti-israel sentiment building up. I don't agree with them whatsoever, but it's pretty fucking obvious. The recent UN example is one you should not ignore.
Has nothing to do with /pol/ you sperg.

>> No.64098936

speaking of apple. grsecurity is reporting a performance hit on intel processors by almost 1/3rd. apple is already under fire for limiting the performance of their phones because muh battery, what happens when they limit the cpu speed for normies macbooks?

>> No.64098963
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Oh the burn is strong. Feel the burn Intel ! Lol

Time to buy a threadripper before they all sell out lol

>> No.64098987

>1/3 perfhit

pretty xtreme desu, people will scream

>> No.64099016
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Easy, they just won't patch it, so the users don't have a meltdown. If Microsoft can get away with not patching the Atom Tables bug, Apple can do it.

>> No.64099024 [DELETED] 

It’s intels fault not apples. But what a perfect time for Apple to migrate all their Macs over to A11+ chips which are on par with current i7 chips and once this performance hit kicks in they will dominate them.


>> No.64099042

which do you think will cause more of an issue, normies whining that their 4000$ facebook machine doesn't load 1000x compressed jpgs or shit rags like motherboard/vice posting an article that apple ignored a security vulnerability in macos kernel?

>> No.64099074 [DELETED] 

Is this being discussed in this context of a 30% performance hit for all intel processors anywhere other than /g/?

Forgive me but it’s harder to trust it if 4chan is the only place. Also if true then I need to load up on Intel puts.

>> No.64099083


>> No.64099127

lol that's being exceptionally optimistic in every way possible
people noticed a fucking ~200 difference in geekbench scores (~200-600mhz clocks), they're going to rage about this too
apple will be on indirect damage control for a bit

>> No.64099129 [DELETED] 
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Post YFW Apple finally breaks free of intel handcufffs and starts crafting beautiful MacBooks with ARM processors which are more powerful and use less energy

>> No.64099140

>More powerful

>> No.64099143

Wilco, fuck off already.

>> No.64099155 [DELETED] 

Intel/AMD shills BTFO



>> No.64099157

literally one of the few white hands that don't look like they belong to an obese person on /g/

>> No.64099183

wtf america


>> No.64099196


I doubt Apple will move all Macbooks to fucking ARM unless they want to lose more market share in the personal computer marketplace.
I could see it MAYBE in a sub $600 macbook air style laptop.

>> No.64099202

Those are soyboy hands, son

>> No.64099226

looks like amd shills are at work

oh wait, AMD is too poor and cheap to pay for shills, these are just sad fanbois who spend their free time researching POTENTIAL bugs

>> No.64099230 [DELETED] 

>intel shill sweating

>> No.64099231


The fact this performance hit is so big, coupled with the complexity of the bug (which normal people won't regard as something very serious), makes it impractical to patch.

Normal people will have a hard time trying to grasp why this is a serious bug, and will default to choosing the convenience of speed over security. I don't know if Apple is going to patch it, but from the point of view of users, I think they'd bend over and take it. Maybe Apple could introduce a setting where they allow the user to choose between both options.

Apple can definitely get away with it

>> No.64099252


Based Brad

>> No.64099254


So that's why Baidu has been soaking up every fucking Ebyc chip since the last quarter.

This feels like the World War Z movie where Israel knew about the zombie attack before everyone else and built the wall

>> No.64099269

What's the likelihood Intel will be forced to recall their CPUs and replace them for free? 35% performance penalty seems way too big to not issue a formal recall.

>> No.64099278

so this is the power of the average macfag...

>> No.64099282
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top comfy

>> No.64099283

soyboy hands > sugaboy hands

For sure, they'll deal with it. But users will still flip out unless a compromise of sorts occurs bundled with a separation between what caused this and future apple products.

>> No.64099284

>replacing millions of cpus

>> No.64099298

Intel once recalled Pentium over a bug.


>> No.64099300 [DELETED] 

Intel stock price is at an all time high. If this was true it would literally be a down 20%-50% move for the company.

>> No.64099311

Stay mad

>> No.64099314
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>> No.64099325 [DELETED] 

What are you implying here, fuccboi?

>> No.64099327

It would, if mainstream news outlets catch wind and spin it as gross negligence on intel's part

>> No.64099332
File: 19 KB, 565x540, 1499456210348.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>could you make a new thread about it and link it?
I ended up doing this. Linking it here for anyone that's interested.


>> No.64099334

They lose millions regardless of strategy. Won't be a full recall, can't see that happening.

They're already down after hours babe, once public gets their hand on this...

Keep yourself sugared.

>> No.64099341


Fucking Brad and his ilk are the cancer that are ruining the dreams of a secure linux kernel. Don't believe this fucking bullshit. It's a fucking publicity stunt after all the bad press his toilet firm grsecurity has been going through lately. Don't believe me? Look for yourselves:


>> No.64099344 [DELETED] 

Regardless of the cause or media coverage it would be a huge negative for Intel. They would become extremely uncompetitive if they faced a 30% performance hit. They could also possibly face litigation and huge payouts.

>> No.64099354 [DELETED] 

>already down after hours

Source and how much?

>> No.64099368
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>> No.64099370

t. Intel PR Bombay Team

>> No.64099379

literally nothing of value here Poojeet

>> No.64099385

Yeah, 24 years ago, they've got an army of lawyers who already thought of these scenarios in advance, it's not going to happen again unless it only effects a small portion of users.

At most you could aspire to some settlement money similar to what Sony did when the ps3 security got cracked.

>> No.64099392
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>guy points out suspicious activity coming from intel
>"o-oy vey! he's trying to get publicity! don't pay attention to what he's saying! just fucking trust me!"
Not today, chaim.

>> No.64099394

Linus shut the fuck up. You're just mad you have to actually patch stuff instead of being a lazy fuck.

>> No.64099395

Love the lowkey racism of having Israel of all places be the first to build the wall against a zombie horde. We all know who the zombies are.

>> No.64099397

Are you sure? I imagine Amazon, Google, and Oracle would love to sue for billions.

>> No.64099406

not that anon but you know they will, even though there is exchanges between all parties this will definitely put a pretty decent dent into intel for Q1 2018

>> No.64099421

brad spergler also likes to drop 0 days on twitter too

>> No.64099427

Year of the RISC-V desktop.

>> No.64099434


>This is bad: performance hit from PTI on the du -s benchmark on an AMD EPYC 7601 is 49%

Does this mean AMD processors are affected too?

>> No.64099444


>> No.64099448

don't @ me faggot

>> No.64099455
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>> No.64099457

By the slowdown? Yes. Not by the bug itself however. Of course you'll lose some security without PTI

>> No.64099462

idk, they've already done a lot of damage by arranging their (amazon, microsoft, baidu, etc) epyc transitions late last year.


>> No.64099464

Just because both start with the letter 'i' doesn't mean anything

>> No.64099474

>yfw AMD made the comeback of the century

>> No.64099475

somebody please post that infographic, you know the one

>> No.64099487

somebody alert /biz/, they will have a meltdown

>> No.64099491
File: 3.13 MB, 3968x2976, 14979919437421787600597.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


doesn't matter my good man, Epyc has OS-independent hardware encrypted RAM so you can't fuck with Virtual Machines

>> No.64099502


>> No.64099508

The performance hit is for the software workaround to avoid it. But there shouldn't be a need for the workaround on EPYC, I think.

>> No.64099509

So does it affect machines running Windows (not server)?

>> No.64099515

What's PTI?

>> No.64099532
File: 63 KB, 600x1170, 1513065710182.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>AdoredTV's face when

>> No.64099535

Does anyone know the exact date of the embargo ending? I plan on shorting $INTC

>> No.64099549

Find out when the public does ;)

>> No.64099556



>> No.64099573


You do realize OSX apps aren't going to be that difficult to recompile for ARM, right?

OSX was designed to be inherently cross-platform.

Apple has a pretty comprehensive ARM dev toolkit already developed.

>> No.64099574

ew you could have at least tried to not sound indian

>> No.64099581

i'm the whitest white man there ever was, sweaty

>> No.64099595
File: 37 KB, 600x600, 2dd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64099607

um, no

>> No.64099695
File: 162 KB, 1000x1000, F4C4D92B-61A5-481E-9318-97588589C90E.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

1600X reporting in

>> No.64099725

Is this Y2K18?

>> No.64099796


>> No.64099803

is this the year of the rake for intel?

>> No.64099809
File: 396 KB, 1000x1000, CuxrqaJVUAAPDgB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

/biz/ here
someone linked me to this thread

should I short Intel stock tomorrow morning or what

>> No.64099813

They're literally too big to fail.

>> No.64099821
File: 441 KB, 797x1200, CuxrpTeVMAAuFRr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

p.s. i dont know what the fuck a kernel is

>> No.64099822

Some it at least. Depends on how much you have.

>> No.64099832

And intel fucks up again. I swear to god if Intel's screw ups causes Chinese CPUs to win over...

>> No.64099833

not /biz/ here and I have no clue how stock markets work but intel stock will drop when normies catch wind of this, regardless how big or small it is. further, intel has been hiding it's 10nm process from investors for some time, and people have been questioning already. this may be the tipping point

>> No.64099843

you are in the year of the MediaTek desktop CPU now desu

>> No.64099851

see >>64099556

Personally I get the impression this is purposely being blown up to be bigger than it really is, I don't mean that what was said wouldn't have an impact, I have doubts what was said are the real numbers, i.e. I doubt it's gonna be a 30% penalty.

I'll laugh real hard if this is some scheme to manipulate Intel price, I plan on buying the dip if it happens but I have doubts it will.

>> No.64099857

I'll take an American botnet over a chin*se one, any day of the year.

Death to chinks, slants, and all manner of gooks.

>> No.64099863
File: 105 KB, 883x1024, rzoi6cq5d0ux.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>i dont know what the fuck a kernel is
It's a program/application/app or whatever you want to call it that runs on a computer. Think of it as king of programs. It's the most powerful program because it makes your hardware like your mouse or webcam work correctly and it can manage other programs like your web browser. If the web browser is taking up too much space in memory, the kernel can decide to kill that program to make sure that the computer doesn't encounter errors. The kernel is smarter than you because it knows how many Chrome tabs are too many.

>> No.64099895

>I'll laugh real hard
i doubt you'll laugh when jewtel slashes your paycheck with "your services are no longer required"
also, 2 rupees have been deposited on your intel raid keys acquisition vault

>> No.64099908

this is the thought process that killed cyrix

rip best cpu I ever used cyrix mediaGX 266mhz

>> No.64099911
File: 210 KB, 736x981, Cuxr2HNVIAA0mgB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>The kernel is smarter than you because it knows how many Chrome tabs are too many.

thanks now I understand

>> No.64099915

What's your intention here, to get my attention? Is that all? Why not post something of value instead of this fluff. Post your contact details if you want to flirt with me, don't do that shit here.

>> No.64099946 [DELETED] 

>t. jewtel gaylord looking for male attention
you are even more pathetic than your (((employer)))
do you have enough rupees to buy a genuine intel raid key already?

>> No.64099952
File: 59 KB, 548x562, intel btfo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64099961

just like Kodak right?

>> No.64099963
File: 237 KB, 800x1200, CuxsChqUkAEwWRH.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I see /g/ is infested with /pol/posters too huh
glad to know /biz/ is not suffering alone

>> No.64099974

Just like RCA?

>> No.64099984

This bug affects all Intel CPUs or only the newer ones? (lakes)

>> No.64099994

You're only reinforcing my opinion. Sorry I'm not buying into your scheme friendo. I don't even own any of theirs yet, if you read what I posted I'm going to buy in IF they fall short so trying to convince me to sell early aint gonna get you anywhere if I have nothing to sell. Maybe you Chinks should learn English before trying this shit.

>> No.64100002

Mach-O magic could make interoperability with two processors a breeze.

>> No.64100014

avatar fagging is a sitewide issue too

>> No.64100018

I doubt it's a genuine /pol/ poster, it's just a troll, they don't believe what they say they're just trying to rile someone up with whatever the flavour of the month is.

>> No.64100024
File: 24 KB, 500x382, itkeepsgettingbetter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64100026

fair enough

>> No.64100027

>le pol boogeyman xDDD

>> No.64100059

Oh, it will be fun.

>> No.64100132

How do you patch a hardware bug without a recall?

>> No.64100145

Lots of marketing.
2018: Year of the RISC-V meteoric rise.

>> No.64100166

Holy fuck

>> No.64100180
File: 113 KB, 280x302, 1332366892854.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>mfw bought full all-out AMD Threadripper 1950x rig and assembled it for Christmas

Top kek

>> No.64100182

>intc falls when market opens because of this speculation
>intc spectacularly drops when the embargo is eventually lifted, and the problems are made public
>amd starts to skyrocket towards the end of Q1 2018 and throughout Q2

screencap this post

>> No.64100195


>> No.64100208

100% agreed, AMD will be 3x at least by May.

>> No.64100214


>> No.64100218

>What's interesting, then, is that before Krzanich made any of the transactions that he reported in his most recently filed Form 4, he held 495,743 shares.

>After the options exercises and subsequent sales (which left Krzanich's position unchanged at 495,743 shares), Krzanich then made two more transactions: a sale of 242,830 shares and a sale of 2,913 shares, with each transaction happening at an average price of $44.555, per the filing.

>Those two transactions left Krzanich with exactly 250,000 shares -- the bare minimum that he's required to hold as CEO.


>> No.64100225

Hardware bugs happen often, can’t expect something with billions of transistors to be perfect.
Most of the time hardware bugs are not too serious and more often than not are fixed in microcode or are worked around in software most of the time with no real penalty. The only thing you can consider to be an actual hardware bug is one that can’t be fix in software.

>> No.64100227

Jesus christ, I wish my processors were AMD and I wish I had money to invest in AMD stocks.

>> No.64100245
File: 134 KB, 323x241, 1514582334761.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Oh my fuck.... posted 19 December 2017

Fucking insider trading right there.

My fucking dick

>> No.64100276

and long AMD

>> No.64100301

I hope you meant Acorn/ARM.

>> No.64100313


>> No.64100323

underrated comment

>> No.64100338

That has nothing to do with ARM you goober.

>> No.64100346

he was trying to tell you that Intel dindu

>> No.64100359

Did you miss EBYN's launch? Literally every hyperscaler is using it

>> No.64100361

It means that AMD CPUs aren't affected. People will need a lot of x86 CPUs wayyy before ARM support is sufficient to replace x86. Which means it's better to invest in AMD than ARM right now.

>> No.64100370

>Intel has major fucking hardware bug
>AMD does NOT
>Intel tanks 0.2% stock
>AMD tanks 5%

what the fuck

>> No.64100383

That's the opposite of the truth, you invest before it's popular not after. Buy low, sell high.

>> No.64100391

the cpu is the problem RID THIS EARTH OF CPU

>> No.64100393

the REAL volatility will come when the embargo is lifted and some SV soyboy makes a fancy webpage with a cutesy logo about the issue and every CTO in the world sees it

>> No.64100405

The issue is still under embargo (it seems).

>> No.64100408

The big companies are buying a ton of revised chips :^)

>> No.64100423
File: 113 KB, 500x286, maki.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64100424


why not buy amd epic chips instead? maybe it costs more to replace all motherboards aswell idk

>> No.64100440

Is your mom cute though?

>> No.64100447

nah son ebyc chips and intel boards are compatible, just trim the pins on CPU and cut the socket to fit and its gucci

>> No.64100458

no one in their right mind would sell all of their intel hardware and replace it with amd, not even with something like a vm escape bug

>> No.64100460


>> No.64100482
File: 50 KB, 253x265, gamer mom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64100492

Why not? It sounds as if this bug will allow javascript malware to break of the browser sandbox and the patch causes a sizable performance hit. I don't want an intel processor anymore.

>> No.64100494
File: 29 KB, 320x320, 1505839555956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64100515

thats shady af

>> No.64100516

I would short Intel and buy ARM/AMD if I had any spare cash sitting around. Gotta see if I have anything I could sell to get on this. The CEO selling so that he has the minimum required amount of stocks when the company is at an all time high and expected to go up is a massive red flag.

>> No.64100539

From a layman pov
Would it be wrong to assume this means intel finally got caught regarding that hidden cia core in Their CPUs and are now playing it off as a "bug"*cough double meaning cough*
And the only way to stop this "bug" involves the proccessor taking a significant performance hit?

I assume this based on recent allegations of said cia backdoor in intel chips past 2007

>> No.64100543
File: 27 KB, 1440x1080, 4L_HckirbzW.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64100555

No this has nothing with the EME

>> No.64100559

Why are you even bringing up jews in /g/? Im a regular in /pol/ too but that doesnt mean i spread this autism on other boards.
Its rude.

>> No.64100564
File: 9 KB, 500x500, 4L_ROzuNIrp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>You do realize

>> No.64100568

It's all but confirmed also trips of truth >>64100555

>> No.64100572

fucking this, that phrase makes me cringe every time i see it

>> No.64100577

not that anon but he is the 69th IP in this thread, and that was his first post.

if you are the one he was referring to, you seem to be pulling some serious damage control tho

>> No.64100582


maybe though, the affected customers (amazon, microsoft etc) will buy Epyc instead of continuing with Intel the next time they need to upgrade

>> No.64100617


>> No.64100618

So every device that currently has an intel CPU will be obsolete now?

>> No.64100624

Not the initial anon accused of being jew so no not damage control, just think its annoying to have different topics put in innapropriate discussions.

>> No.64100631

Depends on the severity of the bug.

Considering the intel CEO sold all his stock, it's very possible

>> No.64100634

they're just slowing them down to AMD speeds until they can catch up

>> No.64100636

the issue is regardless how we all feel, /pol/ gave us all cancer like /b/ did to the internet in the early 00s. traces of it are everywhere, and because you are aware of it you see it everywhere even innocuously in shitposting. I don't fault you, but I want you to know. like you, I too have cancer.

>> No.64100638

a RockChip based Chromebook like C201 is completely free except for the 3D acceleration. Not even CPU microcodes, and it's dirt cheap. The device also ships with Coreboot as default. I run GuixSD on it with emacs mode for Guix so I can control the entire thing in a text file.

>> No.64100642

Can you link me an archive or article that confirmed the intel anons "leak"? Trying to be as fair as possible here despite the situation.

>> No.64100651
File: 36 KB, 619x519, 1513971620660.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Ah, i understand then

>> No.64100667
File: 112 KB, 458x665, 1500192994674.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>believing everything posted on /pol/

>> No.64100673

>gross negligence
extremely careless*

>> No.64100690

Are you replying to me or was that a mistake? Because i do not understand the assurtion that i am sheepishly believing in a single source of anything.

>> No.64100700

>intel doesn't do shit for a decade
>gets fat and lazy, massive firmware and hardware level security bugs abound
nice job international jewry

>> No.64100702

not him but just accept the cancer, dont let it hinder you. let it form you as a human bean

>> No.64100714

>article that confirmed the intel anons "leak"?
You're talking about that one LARP post on /pol/ made by an anon pretending to be an Intel insider who knew about some CIA involvement.

>> No.64100721

OP we need a new thread summarising in(c)els flop for the open of trade day. the impact must be maximized

>captcha RISE PUBlic

>> No.64100722

Im already suffering from the assburgers. Why must i embrace the canofcer too?

>> No.64100732

Regardless of 90% chance larp i still would like to see if any other mention of this concern was ever raised.

>> No.64100734

so you are already using gentoo and likely wont have an issue.

>> No.64100754
File: 4 KB, 250x231, pepeshock.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Y-yeah totally anon

>> No.64100769

gentoo wont commit the change for a really long time, I mean, unless you use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS for ~amd64 for example, so just watch the dumpster burn from afar

you ARE using /g/entoo, right anon?

>> No.64100806
File: 3.75 MB, 280x302, 1509764243441.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Well i-i mean hey its all the same GNU deep down r-right?

>> No.64100814

>nothing about this on Intel reddit or phoronix


>> No.64100821

The concern was raised outside of a 4chan LARP. If you're interested, just educate yourself on it's existence and it's largely undocumented purpose instead.

I cannot really even imagine a better rootkit

Luckily you can now cripple it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMEJCLX2dtw

>> No.64100834

Your damn right it is, massive viral campaign by AMD to tarnish Intels good name

>> No.64100835


Give it a couple days and see if anything develops. If its legit phoronix will be reporting it.

>> No.64100837


>> No.64100849

>guy sells out some stock for holiday gifts

kys dumb AMDcucks

>> No.64100857


>> No.64100861

>sells off almost HALF of his stake in the corporation for whatever the market offered
>"holiday gifts"

lmao buddy

some serious shit is probably going down at intel headquarters right now

>> No.64100874

Just wait another month or so (hopefully) until Lenovo release a Ryzen laptop

>> No.64100880

Serious shit as in them laughing at the pathetic smear campaign by AMD who needa to play dirty since they can't comptete lol?

>> No.64100886

spotted the misplaced /biz/cucks who spoonfeed mcaffee shit into their faces like many of his mistressses

>> No.64100889


>just glue cpus together lol

>> No.64100894

>laughing at a "smear campaign" as he sells 11 million USD worth of stock

No, intel execs are shitting themslves right now. With such a massive problem right when AMD recently released EBYN, Intel is screwed. That's why he sold off so much stock so quickly even though he knew it would raise red flags everywhere.

>> No.64100908

someone make another /biz/ thread, the old one is archived

>> No.64100945



>This is bad: performance hit from PTI on the du -s benchmark on an AMD EPYC 7601 is 49%. >https://grsecurity.net/~spender/epyc_pti_results1.txt >https://grsecurity.net/~spender/epyc_nopti_results1.txt

>> No.64100954

AMD doesn't need PTI enabled.

>> No.64100965

PTI is the fix for Intel's issue, AMD doesn't need it. See this link from the OP: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2

>> No.64100982

Look at the AMD shills go!!

>> No.64100990

>Breaking news, Intel's chips have to have all but one core disabled to function


>> No.64101006

Your not making any sense dump poojet

>> No.64101021

he is if you have an iq higher than 60

>> No.64101022

>being this jealous he bought a poozen instead of a 8700k

>> No.64101035


Speculation at this point. However, if AMD needs the PTI fixes as well, it may suffer even worse.

>> No.64101052

This is unironically me, got a 1700 that cant even OC to 3.7ghz on a $300 mobo, meanwhile 8700k can do 5.3ghz

>> No.64101056

Where do you faggots come from

>> No.64101069
File: 137 KB, 717x880, 14092465.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

i've been here for too long
>we know where you came from

>> No.64101070

Do you even read? From the OP: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2

AMD is not affected.

>> No.64101131

Fucking lmao, 2018 will be the year of the AMD server.

>> No.64101149
File: 741 KB, 1280x1278, 1512355767941.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>bug A fucks company B
>fix is to do C
>but but but C fucks over company D!!!
>company D doesn't need C
>act surprised when people mention this
>let me call them all faggots

>> No.64101158

not too bright, eh?

>> No.64101168

that's it, intel is finished

>> No.64101176

Literally worse than FDIV

>> No.64101222

Man, Intel really did not need this when EPYC is starting ramp.

>> No.64101230

does it affect Coffee Lake?

>> No.64101243

>have a nice, balanced ESX host with lots of VMs
>PTI update approaching fast
>30% performance degradation
>everything shit itself from top to bottom
>incident tickets everywhere

Looks like Pajit will need to do the needful.

>> No.64101259

Who cares? It's the fastest CPU ever made

>> No.64101274

not if it loses 30% of its power

>> No.64101283

1st search result for page table isolation is wikipedia

>> No.64101284
File: 12 KB, 480x562, 1493345836766.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>dude what

>> No.64101285

It won't

>> No.64101288

RISC will change everything

>> No.64101307
File: 130 KB, 918x1436, 8700k-cinebench-nt-production.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

you're so stupid its almost sad

>> No.64101308


>> No.64101320



>> No.64101321

Guys, you aware than won't affect only servers, right? Lots of NAS manufacturers uses Intel CPUs. Some of them have multi-tenancy functionality, like NetApp Storage Virtual Machines for example. If suddenly NAS box would loose 30% of its performance it would be a disaster.

>> No.64101354
File: 98 KB, 612x490, brainlet detected.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>gasp! proof my argument is wrong, better make myself look like an idiot even further!!1!

>> No.64101373

Firewalls, routers, NAS and DAS, HTPCs, digital signage, and all kinds of embedded crap.

>> No.64101413

not that anon but even drunk this makes no sense desu

>> No.64101422

you need to adjust this for 25-55% performance for multicore ..a feature Intel Intorudced for the new year

>> No.64101480

The linux fix marks all x86 CPUs, except AMD's, as insecure.

>> No.64101506

So AMD is insecure already? Top kek how will AMDcucks rationalise thia one

>> No.64101507

>On AMD CPUs in the Ryzen family, there's a nasty bug in which the CPUs malfunction if they execute code from the highest canonical page. They'll speculate right off the end of the canonical space, and bad things happen. This is worked around in the same way as the Intel problem.

Doesn't this means that Ryzen is affected in some way too ?

>> No.64101543

>PTI is simply not active for AMD CPUs
>Microsoft has been silently working on a similar feature since November
Pretty much sure Microsoft will fuck the shit up for AMD CPUs too because they can't fucking do things properly. Well at least you can ignore the update.

>> No.64101545

I love how it worsens performance on AMD hardware as well

>> No.64101548

>except AMD's

>> No.64101577

So AMD is literal poo, I knew it

>> No.64101594
File: 1 KB, 291x30, feelsgoodman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64101611 [DELETED] 


>> No.64101630

shut up burgermutt

>> No.64101644


>> No.64101654

Intel didn't make any major changes to their microarchitecture since sandy bridge. But regarding this specific problem, I suppose it comes from at least pentium 2, probably even older designs.

>> No.64101666 [DELETED] 
File: 3.95 MB, 2249x2495, conspiracy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Here you go.

>> No.64101678

that's the wrong one, buddy...

>> No.64101688

>The A11 chip is already more powerful than an i5
The only problem is that apple's benchmarks are incorrect and misleading.

>> No.64101702

Will this have a performance impact on native programs or only VMs?

>> No.64101711
File: 3.87 MB, 8000x5583, how to become 2d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.64101716


>> No.64101730

intelkikes get what deserve for their socket fuckery

>> No.64101758


Fuck me, you couldnt make this stuff up.
Here we go, strap yourselves in lads.

>> No.64101766

AB350 Pro 4 has it, I've got psp disabled

>> No.64101768

Holy fuck someone is deleting the threads from reddit

>> No.64101782

This is about to reach crticial mass soon.

>> No.64101789

source? which boards?

>> No.64101798

i know its early but is AMD truly /ourguy/ ???????

>> No.64101799

you need to go back and stay gone

>> No.64101816


>> No.64101839

a fitting end to a shitty company

>> No.64101852

Man, what a year.

Bricked atoms, HT bug, this.

Anything I missed?

>> No.64101865

bricked atoms? I'm a newfag on this, do you mean doping gone wrong on chips and transistors?

>> No.64101866

First 1000W CPU?

>> No.64101870

That was a speculation, it wouldn't actually handle 1000W.

>> No.64101878

Search for "C2000 bricked"

>> No.64101892

Pretty sure it wasn't and skl-x can reach that wattage OCd with certain workloads.

Nobody in their right mind ran them for any notable duration.. The board would go out before the CPU

>> No.64101895

but it sure did 500w easily after mild overclocking

>> No.64101913

The Xeon marketing blunder was hilarious.

>> No.64101931

AMD - 40 pages talking about performance, features and market conditions of EPYC

Intel - 20 out of 40 pages talking about EPYC, glue and self-fellation.

3 month later release a CPU with AMD component glued.

>> No.64101969

Except for GPUs, sure.

>> No.64102047

It was a theoretical power needed for ski-x for avx512 heavy workload at 5 GHz which didn't happen in reality.

>> No.64102363

>And you can't even breach the fucking TrustZone, you schizo!
Trustzone is an ARM architectural feature and has nothing to do with the specific SEE running in the "trusted" partition; and intel ME has never used an ARM architecture anyway. You're full of shit.

>> No.64102373


AMD Threadripper 1950x would like to have a word with you.

>> No.64102393

That's not EPYC 7601

>> No.64102500


Pretty cheap, based AMD

>> No.64102507

stop supporting scumbags dopice

>> No.64102542

>literally 1/3 price mark up - the site
makes you think huh

>> No.64102804

Wasn't it $2100 MSRP? i hope you know $ ==€ according to how they convert prices.

And it's sold outy tough luck if you expected regular prices from hardware in too high demand

>> No.64103002

>Average joe is browsing the internet looking at normie garbage
>has a mid-low range graphics card and an i5 6400 he uses to play some lightweight multiplayer games (overwatch, CS:GO etc)
>discovers VRChat
>discovers deep weeb urges playing VRChat
>meets his perfect virtual waifu in another player
>they spend days talking only over VRChat, eventually falling for each other
>despite their shitty lives IRL, they always find solace in each other.
>nothing could be better. joe is finally happy in life.

What could possibly ruin something so great?

>Windows 10 is installing security updates and restarting in 10 minutes. Please save your work.

>> No.64103395




>> No.64103499


Sounds similar to the romance plot of Blade Runner 2049 desu lol

>> No.64103584

this is the pinnacle of online autism. it superseeds secondlife, but then again that isnt hard since arma3 also did it

>> No.64103636

>takistan in VRChat
do want

>> No.64103739

>I've got psp disabled
Meanwhile Intel remains cancerous piece of shit, thank goodness 2017 was the beginning of their fall and 2018 will only accelerate the death of this abortion of a company.

>> No.64103774
File: 224 KB, 671x427, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

> 4000$
> the meme price keeps going up
> putting the dollar sign after the price like a yurotard

>> No.64103852

Well NASDAQ is up, let's see if it got to them

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