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/g/ - Technology


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61890626 No.61890626 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

>20 cents of silicon
>60 cents for some metal
>$999 RRP

>> No.61890663

>>61890626
>1 billion in research

>> No.61890664
File: 617 KB, 2040x3160, shut-it-down-jew.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61890664

delet this

>> No.61890698

Thats why i solder my own computer unit

>> No.61890704

>>61890626
Well you make it then :)

>> No.61890708

>>61890698
Cool clock, Ahmed.

>> No.61890718

I'd like to see you make your own transistors so small you'd need an electron microscope to see them.

>> No.61890724
File: 128 KB, 1200x627, software_update[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61890724

>$0 of metal
>$0 of rubber
>$0 of lithium

>$70000 RRP

This stuff is just laying around in nature for free

>> No.61890735

>>61890663
>pay 10 man team 200k each
>billion spent in research

>> No.61890809

>>61890626
what you didn't see:
>costs for machinery and actual production
>production yield rate is probably below 20% for threadripper chips
so they can sell only a fraction of the produced processors. Learn yourself some computer engineering.

>> No.61890849

>>61890809
>production yield rate is probably below 20% for threadripper chips
>I'm talking out of my ass: the post

>> No.61890864
File: 72 KB, 600x536, Girls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61890864

>>61890809
>he actually took this thread seriously

>> No.61890871

>>61890809
All Zen based cpu's actually have really high yields since the architecture isn't monolithic for multi zeppelin cpu's and the zeppelins have very high yields themselves.

Why it does cost a lot of money is the research done and that the still need to develop more stuff.

>> No.61890873

>>61890626

Silicon is actually a lot more expensive because they have grow extremely pure crystals in a specialized furnace.

Material costs are closer to $40-50 per chip.

>> No.61890900
File: 111 KB, 1300x870, Engineer--Stock-Photo-engineering-construction-engineer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61890900

>>61890724
>some hydrogen
>some oxygen
>some nitrogen
>some carbon
>$300k a year starting
What the fuck

>> No.61890902

>>61890735
>designing an entirely new CPU architecture
>10 person team
this is why /g/ is shit

>> No.61890956

>>61890873
>Material costs are closer to $40-50 per chip.
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Sempron-2650-1-45Ghz-SD2650JAHMBOX/dp/B00IOMFFYM

so amd is making a 10 dollar loss on every sempron sold?

>> No.61890981

>>61890626
SOAP

>> No.61890987
File: 81 KB, 444x444, 1502143993622.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61890987

>>61890626

>> No.61890988

>>61890902
you're right its more like 5 or 6

>> No.61891123

>>61890900
>300k
That's not a math major

>> No.61891139

>>61890626
>blasting intels ass for half the price
>priceless

>> No.61891167

>>61890873
>per chip.
you mean per wafer?

>> No.61891289
File: 197 KB, 800x1000, Make_more_cores.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61891289

>>61890902
>it takes more than 10 people to come up with "hurr, let's put 32 cores inside then disable half of them so we have 16 working cores derp"

>> No.61891542

>>61890956
sempron is slightly less die size than 4x zepellin

>> No.61891551

>>61891289
>what is infinity fabric

>> No.61892222

>>61890626
$$$ billions for research
$$$ billions for tools and machines to fabricate the dies

>> No.61892249

>>61890663
Don't forget the billions on fab set up

>> No.61892307

>>61890900
>Civil engineering
>300k

>> No.61892438

>>61890663
this

>> No.61892729

>>61891551
And what is it?

>> No.61892831

>>61890626
>Paying for a rock that does math.

>> No.61892872

>>61890626
It's pretty cool to think that the silicon used is one of the purest things ever made by humans.

It is 99.9999999% Si, that is nine nines, hence e name 9n silicon

Cool as shit

>> No.61892987

>>61892729
Infinity fabric is the "magical" miracle AMD needed to pull themselves together.

Zeppelin dies are, by themselves, just two quad cores on one die, this means that their yields are probably the highest ever in x64 history, as:
-Best dies become server CPUs (epyc)
-Very good dies become HEDT CPUs (using the same package as epyc cuts costs, which is why AMD can get rid of two non-working Zeppelin dies, and two very good dies)
-Good dies become R7 and R5
-Worse dies become R3 and raven ridge

This is speculation, but if raven ridge gets a separate on-package GPU, AMD effectively creates more than 200 units that will become:
- 10% epyc
- 20% (Includes failed chips) Threadripper
- 40% r7/r5
- 30% r3 and raven ridge

Tl;Dr:
Higher yields thanks to simpler chips makes AMD more money and flexibility

>> No.61893115

>>61891551
You're taking a super old image macro way too seriously. That pic was whipped up in the wake of bulldozer failing hard, iirc.
The hilarious part is how that strategy is finally about to pay dividends for AMD.

>> No.61893136

>>61890626
>not understanding how research, marketing, engineering works

>> No.61893448

>>61890626
Most of the cost of the actual manufacturing is probably literally power.
All those robots, machines that spin the wafers, diamond saws etc.. those must suck out a lot of power, specially if you consider that each wafer need like 200+ passes.

>> No.61893473

>>61890626
If you can personally make 80 cents worth of material into something worth $1000 what are you doing here complaining about it?

>> No.61893486

>>61892987
Actually, they don't need to put two non functional chips on the Threadrippers.
They can use the cheapest metal spacers they can think of and just place two dies.

>> No.61893489

>>61891289
Dummy, die!

>> No.61893748

>>61892987
Its entirely possible that amd doesn't put the highest end in the server cpus as those are never going to be overclocked and never be overvolted with amds stupidly good ramp down, how much better would the best dies be there?

Its possible amd is literally putting the best cpu dies they make into thread ripper as these are expected to be oc'ed and pushed to 4ghz+

>> No.61894055

>>61890626
then make one yourself linus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t1PQJmM8P4

>> No.61894064

>>61890626
>>61892831
CPUs are literally just rocks we tricked into thinking by shooting lightning though it.

Why the fuck are we paying for this shit. We should all just plug rocks into our outlets and make our own CPUs

>> No.61894129

>>61890626
fucking scammers...
fucking JEWS!!1

>> No.61894150
File: 1.52 MB, 500x375, 1461227461944.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61894150

>>61890735

>> No.61894218

>>61892987
RR is separate die.

>> No.61894672

>>61890626
There's about $20 of indium in the solder just putting the heatspreader on, anon.

>> No.61894682

>>61890626
Yeah, but that's not what the first one cost to produce. It's like a perscription: the second pill cost a penny and a half to produce, but the first pill cost billions.

>> No.61894683

>>61890900
fucking kek

>> No.61894701

>>61890663
lol hardly
>still x86
>moar coars

>> No.61894726

>>61894701
There is no such thing as x86 CPUs since 1995.
It's all a bunch of custom RISC cores with a small translator layer.

>> No.61894765

>>61894726
still running x86 code so it's still an x86 processor. Have you seen other instruction sets running on a Ryzen?

>> No.61894786

>>61894765
> Have you seen other instruction sets running on a Ryzen?
AMD64.

>> No.61894793

>>61894765
x64, SSE, MMX(people still use that?)

>> No.61894796

>>61890663
Don't forget the extra $500M for buying all the fab equipment. Vacuum deposition systems ain't cheap.

>> No.61894810

>>61894793
Vectorization is driving the latest wave of performance optimization. compilers are just barely beginning to take advantage of it.

>> No.61894820

>>61894793
All still x86

>> No.61894845

SOI wafers are pretty expensive since you have to bond the SiO2 in the middle in between the silicon layers.

>> No.61894847

>>61894810
Yes, i know, but any advantage at vectorized 8bit integer when most of the graphical workload is done by the GPU?

>> No.61894971

>>61890626
wtf I hate capitalism now

>> No.61895080
File: 304 KB, 1524x1600, Intel-Core-i7-6950X_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61895080

>>61890626
>20 cents of silicon
>40 cents for some metal
>2 cents for some used cum TIM
>$1,716.63 RRP

>> No.61895090

>>61895080
That's soldered.

>> No.61895393

>20 cents of silicon
>60 cents for some metal
>~$624,000,000/y for employees
>at least $500,000,000 in research
not to mention whatever the costs are for their manufacturing, transportation costs, advertising, server upkeep, building upkeep, taxes and many other things I can't think of.
The only reason they see profits are because of economies of scale, and it's a huge economy of scale.

>> No.61897879

>>61890663
>$100 to pay fags on /g/ to shill it

>> No.61898013

>>61890663
/thread
It should be easy for a tech board to realize that marginal costs can be close to irrelevant.

>> No.61898046

>>61894845
14nm FF doesn't use SOI. Also creating SOI wafers isn't that expensive, and you don't have to "bond" shit. You just bombard them with oxygen.

>> No.61898062

>>61890626
>A gram of 6061 Chinese aluminium
>60 cents

More like one cent.

>> No.61898066

>>61895090
No it isn't.

>> No.61898070

>>61898062
>Chinese aluminium
>one cent

More like Tencent, amirite?

>> No.61898072

soviet russia is that way, commie

>> No.61898076
File: 45 KB, 800x450, 2d girls loving 2d girls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61898076

>>61892872
>purest things ever made by humans
That would be pic related.

>> No.61898079

>>61890626
Why not just buy the raw materials and build it yourself? Let us know how you get on.

>> No.61898094

>>61898066
Broadwell-E is soldered.

>> No.61898126

>>61898094
Oh, that's Broadwell-E. My mistake.
That guy's post still applies to Skylake-E and Kaby Lake-E, though.

>> No.61898164

>>61898126
>Kaby Lake-E
why the fuck do they call those Kaby-E when these are just normal Kaby Lake dies on LGA2066...
fucking intel.

>> No.61898528

>>61891542

Semprons only use one die and are much smaller chips. They are closer to $10-20 to make.

Threadripper costs much more because it a big ass chip. It isn't just the silicon. It is the all of the other fancy compounds and metals (gold and silver for the pins/tracings) used to make the actual chip

>> No.61898558

"Lol why are ferraris so expensive its just some metal and cylindors? :)"

- OP the retard, mid-August 2017

>> No.61898626

TR is 5% top binned zeppelin dies. Epyc is higher still. Amd starts from the server market and they will eventually make products that will compete core for core with intel on other niche markets like gaming. Zen 2 will be exactly that. A 64 core server chip and a 5ghrz chip for gaymers with a 5% ipc increase. Zen 3 will be 7nm. If not for coffee lake at late 2017 or 2018 intel would get blown off the market even on gayming.

>> No.61898649

>>61898626
Zen2 is 7nm LP, anon.

>> No.61898655

You forgot $500 of glue

>> No.61898790
File: 103 KB, 1080x512, IMG_20170814_134150.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61898790

>>61898626
>>61898649
The ipc increase will be higher than 5%.
Just with wider fpu with proper avx2 handling they would gain a lot in encoding. Add to that IF optimizations and other improvements that didn't make the first gen Zen in time...
BTW, globalfoundries 14nm were targeted for 3ghz (sweet spot), while 7nm LP will be 5ghz.
If they manage to do this, Zen2 will be the real thing boiz...

>> No.61898806

>>61890626
If it's so cheap why don't you make your own

>> No.61898894

>>61894726
>>61894765
>>61894701
There is no such thing as x86. There is only IA-32 and AMD64.

>> No.61898920

Someone shud make a version of that dragonball pic with ryzen/threadripper on top and intelgoys at the bottom heh

>> No.61899356

>>61898528
The material costs for anything but the wafer are negligible. Research and production is what makes up the vast majority of the cost, not material prices.

>> No.61899477

>>61898790
>just wait

>> No.61899499

>>61899477
If you don't want to wait AMD would be happy to supply you with zen based hardware, from 4 core entry level desktop chips to 2P 64 core servers right now.

>> No.61899526

>>61898790
When will people understand that it won't actually run at 5GHZ?

>> No.61899535

>>61890626
i once got sand from the Sahara desert and baked it in my oven for 50 minutes at 220 C and now I have what is the equivalent of a 24 core xeon that consumes only 0.5 watts of power

>> No.61899564

>>61899477
I bet you're waiting and hoping for covfefe lake, lmao

>> No.61899577

>>61898164
I think strictly they're called Kaby Lake X
Intel can go back to the regular naming policy when they release actual Kaby Lake E
But yeah it's lame

>> No.61899617

>>61890902
its just the reddit commies
its one of their muh dumb capitalism memes

>> No.61899648

>>61897879
underrated comment

>> No.61899686

>>61891289
I like how this pic implies that Intel actually did anything better.

>> No.61899723

>>61890626
Silicon lottery.

>> No.61899732

>>61899648
kys samefag

>> No.61899766

>>61899732
>samefag
You're wrong, and a dog fucking faggot.

>> No.61899798

>>61899648
Your life is overrated btw

>> No.61899818

>>61899798
At least I'm not indonesian.

>> No.61900427

>>61890626
don't forger about 6 gorrillion in research

>> No.61903004

>>61891289
Go Back to
>>>V
NOW

>> No.61903034

>>61899686
I like how this pic implies that 5% performance improvement will raise sales by 20%.

>> No.61903087

>>61890626
It's only $1k for an amazing machine.

No, its cost is >95% not related to raw material prices. Isn't that fucking obvious?

>> No.61903344

>>61890626
STFU poorfag

>> No.61903435

>>61890626
>buy 14nm Stepper
>pay $30,000,000

>> No.61904027
File: 836 KB, 814x1200, shoah.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
61904027

>>61899526
That's ok.

Just imagine Zen with 4GHz base clock and 4.5GHz turbo.

Another shoah!

>>
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