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51896685 No.51896685 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe] [rbt]

ITT: we discuss technology we wish existed for the consumer market.

I'll start, VRAM expansion cards, ultimately revolutionizing how we pick and buy GPU's

>> No.51896724

SSD's, those things rock.

>> No.51896820

>vram expansion slots

you're a fucking retard op


same fagging... really?

delete this thread.

>> No.51896872

A standardized PCI holder system to prevent graphics cards from sagging

>> No.51896896

>same fagging... really?
>4 posts, 4 posters
nigga lrn2fourchan

>> No.51896902

I'm sorry? Does personalized memory (capacity/speed) on your GPU of choice really sound that retarded?

>>suddenly meme cards like the 970 and old school 750ti's with an AIO, OC, and expanded faster memory; become a DIY alternative to spending $700 on a brand new card

>> No.51896949

the elusive pci processor
no, wait... that already exist


>> No.51896957

I never understand why the 750 ti is a meme card

>> No.51896964

Just buy a non-shitty case anon.

>> No.51896979

Cheap fuck card that performs as well or better than "next gen" consoles.

>> No.51896981

how is that related to the case? are you saying all cases without a pci holder are shit?

>> No.51896990

I see how my poor grammar would lead you to believe the 750ti is a meme card, its actually a great card, just built a WoW PC for my gf with one of those, she's seeing +120 fps

>> No.51897005

Yeah, you can even mod one if you have the tools so any case will have wooble-free cards. The port is the least of your issues.

>> No.51897008

>tfw the 950 could've been an excellent successor to the 750Ti but Nvidia fucked it up by requiring a 6-pin PCIe connector

>> No.51897017

Still, we need a standardized version if it.

>> No.51897036

10gbps network gear

>> No.51897050

I dont think you know the meaning of meme
I own a 750 ti and it's a really awesome card for me since my Gts 450 died trying to run mgsv
and I dont care about the graphics so that's why I didnt take a 960 or 380 and spent more on the cpu

>> No.51897072

how old are you ?
vram expansion slots used to be normal on graphic cards. you could add ram chips to it if you needed.

>> No.51897096

let me guess
kikes preventing the consumer to get a longer lifespan product?

Or is it the fact that GPU upgrades are more important than VRAM?

>> No.51897101
File: 247 KB, 640x640, 1425777531401.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

on the one hand i'm well aware that it should be a bait
on the other hand i'm pretty sure it's not, and my optimism slowly but surely dies

truly, 4chan is a dark place

>> No.51897136

>OP is one of those guys who think the gpu vRam size is what make them faster
I love how my old HD4870 512mb destroyed all those faggots who boasted about "Muh GT 620 has 2gb of vRam, so awesome, best card ever"

>> No.51897142

nah, graphic cards got more complex .

>> No.51897185
File: 652 KB, 480x270, DzfSDtx.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I think he's just a kid. Nothing wrong with that, everyone was a kid at some point.
>mfw i still remember how back then i've bought 6200gt instead of 6600gt because 6200 had 128mb of vram
>i also bought fx5200 before
>and i wasn't even exactly a kid, i just haven't did enough research - i had computers since pentium mmx times and my first 'gpu' was s3 virge
holy fuck i was dumb

>> No.51897222

Doesn't matter if you don't have the memory bandwidth to support that much memory.

>> No.51897549

>>kikes preventing the consumer to get a longer lifespan product?
most upgradeable cards back in the day were replaced and never upgraded, so there was some of that in it. But mainly, these days, it'd be very difficult to do. DIMMs are 64 bits wide, so for a graphics card with a 256-bit bus you'd need to install them in sets of four. And I don't even want to think about what a trace-routing nightmare it'd be. Oh yeah, and find some way to cool the things, too, on top of that.

>> No.51897814

An mxm3 standard everyone can agree upon so that we can upgrade our fucking laptops

>> No.51897861

2048 core desktop CPU

>> No.51897957

I just use pencils.
Shave it down so it's the right length. eraser bit on the GPU with the graphite tip sticking in the bottom.

>> No.51898966

>implying that even exists in one chip

>> No.51899771
File: 8 KB, 402x424, 7ab.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>just nigger rig it

>> No.51899834

>we discuss technology we wish existed for the consumer market.

check yourself before you shrek yourself

>> No.51899840

Heard AMD has plans for it will consume 3000w but mysteriously will perform worse than an i5. Of course you will need firefighting training.
> WWF on suicide watch.

>> No.51899855

It's talking about technology that already exits but isn't prevalent in the consumer sector, not tech that doesn't exist in general.

>> No.51899873

nope, OP did not state that

you shrek'd yourself senpai

>> No.51899889

>he didn't have an intergraph realizm

>> No.51900009

Vram became cheap enough that it was easy to equip[e a card with the max that would be useful also latency and other issues make it impossible on modern cards.

>> No.51900282

OP, GDDR is soldiered onto PCBs next to the GPU not just for cost.

At this point in time, it's necessary to keep the interface power as low as possible so thermal/watt budget can be allocated more to computation instead of external I/O.

HBM goes even further (DRAM on same package = "2.5D"), and things are quite likely to continue (full 3D stacking).

>> No.51901365


>> No.51901664

Nuclear weapons. States would not give people a reason to use them and would try to avoid wars instead.

>> No.51903317

Even better, why can't they just let us connect a usb SSD directly to our video card for extra memory? Fucking corporate profiteering bullshit.

>> No.51904642


VRAM expansions used to be popular throughout the '90s when stock 1-2MB RAM compliments weren't enough to drive 1280x1024 and higher resolutions with >256 colors.

Cards don't really have that problem anymore, and if you're doing something that maxes out a 970's VRAM, you probably shouldn't be using a 970 to accomplish that anyway.

>> No.51906595

GPUs used to have expansion slots.

>> No.51906763

it has the 500mb vram issue like the 970

>> No.51906997

It was more common with GPUs embedded on the motherboard. The benefits weren't speed so much as having 16-bit color at higher resolutions. I've never seen an ISA or PCI card with VRAM slots, but I'm sure they existed.

>> No.51907089


We're also slowing moving to the same thing with CPUs.

At some point, you're going to buy a all in one board that has the CPU and memory soldered on, with a pretty nice integrated card, and then just connect some ssds to it, and put it in a case.
Maybe add a aftermarket heat sink.

Discrete GPUs will be next.

>> No.51907116

A htpc with updated specs, and no botnet locked down garbage mobile os crap.

>> No.51907419

People have been saying that shit since the 90's hasn't happened, won't happen.

Gaming shit is actually pretty good margins, these tech companies wouldn't fuck with that.

>> No.51908985

I want to use dual graphics but not have the tops air blocked by the bottom. Make it so you can buy flipped versions of cards. top gpu fans face up bottom gpu fans face bottom.

>> No.51908999

Im fuckin drunk btw

>> No.51909016

Costs more than a hd 7950 on Amazon last I checked.

>> No.51909036

Literal retard. Besides, who isn't using two-way SLI 980ti anyways

>> No.51909148

I see what you're getting at but it'd be better to just leave a open slot in between

>> No.51909446

I've got a 4MB VRAM card you pop in an AGP slot for the iGPU lying around

>> No.51909543

I know, I just want that aesthetic :(

>> No.51909578

It happened for soundcards, it happened for network cards.

It'll happen eventually.

>> No.51909716

Graphite conducts bruh. Not a safe choice.

>> No.51909934

>2 things that you really don't give a fuck about and are super generic unless you're a musician/audiophile

I can't see it anon

one thing I'd like to see is bigger spacings between pci-e slots

>you buy a motherboard with 2+ slots
>you want two cards
>let them snuggle for extra warmth

>> No.51910000

This is easily the most retarded thread on 4chan.

More memory doesn't equal better performance unless the processor can handle more.

>> No.51910029

nice quads of truth.

>> No.51910172

10GHz dual core CPU with high IPC, power usage be damned, cooling be damned.

slap a combination boiler on there like one of the challenger tanks for making tea and hot chocolate.

>> No.51910400

retina interactive screens so i can browse the internet and shit while i'm at work or driving.

>> No.51910442


>when I am driving

Are you american

>> No.51910457

modular motherboards

ribbon cables to connect pci/ram slots and the I/O cluster so desktops can be more compact and use up more space inside cases/ allow nonstandard configurations

is 6-12 inches of extra cable going to impact performance that much?

>> No.51910458

>Are you american

I already use my phone while I'm driving cuz I just don't give a fuck. Would be nice if I could do it without taking my eyes off the road really.

>> No.51910551


just wanted to make sure I was separated by an ocean from shitty drivers like you

>> No.51910569

>>just wanted to make sure I was separated by an ocean from shitty drivers like you
I've been driving for 15 years and I've never hit or even scratched anything.

I also drive 90+ mph (that's about 145kph for Saudi Britainnians) regularly while on my phone and don't signal when I change lanes.

I was considering migrating to Europe a long time ago, but I hate Muslims too much.

>> No.51910583

you sound like you drive on the wrong side of the road

>> No.51910648


thats rich coming from a country filled with religious nutters that left europe because it wasnt puritanical enough :^)

I guess you just let jesus take the wheel whenever you read the web on the road

>> No.51910675

i guess jesus must love me then.

christians, even radical christians and mormons, are 10000000000x better than muslims.

at least they don't behead people in the streets or leave to go join ISIS and get welcomed back with open arms.

>> No.51910681

we loved our children too much to let them get victimized by muslim child rapists

>> No.51910699


but anon, apart from sweden the muslims have no real power. On the other hand you guys are cucked by extremists which steer you towards the cliff with their denial of science and foreskin thievery. Besides if you dont live in the european equivalents of detroit you dont see too many muslims anyways

>> No.51910714

>denial of science
there is very little, and what little there is comes from impotent tent preachers

>inb4 you conflate something not scientific with science

>> No.51910715


Only britain does that. Besides you hand over your babies to the rabbi so he can steal their foreskin to use in jewish sorceries, so you're no better (^:

>> No.51910723


m8 you're coming for a country where the majority does not believe in evolution, let alone man made climate change.

>> No.51910730

>>inb4 you conflate something not scientific with science

you deride those of faith while being blind to your own

>> No.51910763


Difference is Im doing research in my field and I have done enough statistics to understand the evidence. Your arguments fail on more levels of course, for even the uneducated understands that he should rather have faith in those whose predictions generally turn out to be true instead of those proven wrong over and over.

>> No.51910795

the people who peddle modern evolutionary theories and anthropogenic climate change are often wrong. In the case of AGW they are almost always wrong.

How many wrong predictions and failed models do you need to see before you quit accepting their lies?

>> No.51910802


So you really are a climate denier?

>> No.51911957

A British guy was supposed to have been sent to "space" yesterday.

I wonder what he was paid to agree with the simulations and artist renditions of the spherical earth? It is laughable.

The sooner we can uncover and rid the world of this evolution bullshit story and realize that God exists and we get real photos of our habitat (the flat ones, not the spherical ones) the better.

>> No.51912274

Lol, imagine this kids face when he learns 3Dfx were going to do this with chips; so you could keep the card but upgrade the actual GPU..

>> No.51912360

HBM is the future, so on-die RAM is gonna eliminate the future of on-PCB GDDR5 once it matures

>> No.51912538


>> No.51912638
File: 40 KB, 625x626, Comraderoboto+is+just+a+bait+fag+and+so+is+_d0427bac0d1e3715c841a42722047d73.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.51912712

>is 6-12 inches of extra cable going to impact performance that much?
Short answer yes. Long answer is that for RAM latency is *really* important, which is why motherboard manufacturers usually place the slots so close to the CPU that it might as well be on top of it.

PCIe is less of an issue, you can buy extensions for that already.

Not him but all expansion cards have been slowly but surely absorbed into the CPU and chipset. Dedicated GPUs won't die off entirely but they'll forced into a niche, not unlike sound cards. Intel is aiming for it, with more and more focus on graphics for each generation. AMD are certainly aiming for it, to the point where they're betting a large chunks of their future on it. Soon there won't be any market for anything like the 960 and below, with mid range cards relying on gimmicks to sell instead of performance.
>Buy the GTX 1160, unrivalled physX support and better gameworks support than the AMD a12 10850k
>Get a Radeon r7 550 and enjoy a better VR experience than Intel's Iris Pro over 9000 edition!

>> No.51912923
File: 1.25 MB, 1600x1200, videocards 5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

they weren't uncommon. but usually it was little sockets for individual chips, not DIMMs.

>> No.51913008

>The muppets who would normally buy a 4gb gt 630 now buy a 610 and 4gb of RAM power
This needs to happen.

>> No.51913044

I always have a mini hearth attack when i see that word. Then i look again.

>> No.51913214

there are so many awesome as fuck techs that could easily be ported over to the enthusiast consumer market but won't because "reasons":

- multisocket motherboard and CPU designs
- pci-e "SSDs" built from spare DRAM + battery pack (gigabyte actually made one for a bit)
- backup PSU
- teamed ethernet connections (available, but not really supported or pushed)
- FPGA (coming but not quite here yet)
- multiseat OS (here but not easy to use)
- RAM expansion adapters

>> No.51913357

Fuck, really? When I play GTA5 and went to settings it let me use all its RAM.

I would keep it tho, I can play all games I have, including FO4 and some new meme games.

>> No.51913453

>- multisocket motherboard and CPU designs
Consumer hardware makes little use of more than 8 cores.
>- pci-e "SSDs" built from spare DRAM + battery pack (gigabyte actually made one for a bit)
DRAM is way too expensive. PCIe SSDs with NVMe support offer all the performance you need already.
>- backup PSU
aka a spare. UPSs cover blackouts, and have consumer grade versions.
>- teamed ethernet connections (available, but not really supported or pushed)
Bottleneck is almost exclusively with Internet speed
>- RAM expansion adapters
Consumer software does not need huge amounts of RAM
>- multiseat OS (here but not easy to use)
That actually sounds useful for families. One computer would be perfectly capable of processing all common tasks for multiple people at the same time. I'd be useful for families. Just plug in an extra display, keyboard, mouse, and log in a second Windows account. You've got all the files already there, etc...

>> No.51913469

>Consumer hardware
I meant software.

>> No.51913544
File: 991 KB, 1680x1618, top.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>- multisocket motherboard and CPU designs

I'm on one right now. sr-2 by evga. Dual socket with 5600-series xeons. There is a newer model out, but I'm ok at 24 threads.

>> No.51913570

>Consumer hardware makes little use of more than 8 cores.
why limit yourself? why not make the hardware capable of handling multiseat? why not be able to start off with 2 cores, then upgrade to 4, 8, etc? why not stop being a naysaying faggot and actually use your brain?

>DRAM is way too expensive. PCIe SSDs with NVMe support offer all the performance you need already.
except in those cases where you have old-ass DDR2/DDR3 lying around and you want it to serve a goddamn purpose, you unimaginative asshole.

>aka a spare. UPSs cover blackouts, and have consumer grade versions.
can those kick in to provide extra power during high-load scenarios? Can you keep running your shit if your first PSU dies? no, you unimaginative faggot

>Bottleneck is almost exclusively with Internet speed
have you ever LAN'd or wanted to actually get good game streaming performance, you massive cocksucker?

>Consumer software does not need huge amounts of RAM
Implying I don't want to have OPTIONS. Maybe I want a RAMDisk on my shitty 2-slot mobo. Maybe I am using multiseat. Maybe I actually do have consumer software that does use a lot of RAM, like chrome, etc.

>That actually sounds useful for families. One computer would be perfectly capable of processing all common tasks for multiple people at the same time. I'd be useful for families. Just plug in an extra display, keyboard, mouse, and log in a second Windows account. You've got all the files already there, etc...
Exactly! You can already do it now with shit like SoftXPand and/or linux, but the limitations are real.

>> No.51913579

yes, it's true, but they don't do this nearly enough. I wish AMD would do it, and I wish they would put QPI links on lower-end hardware.

>> No.51913677

Woah. Someone's easily offended. Lay off the energy drinks, dude.

>> No.51913790

oh, I'm just being contrary. sorry to hurt your feelings. hopefully it's clear I think the opinions of that poster are wrong.

>> No.51914319

Power. Xpu cell and fpga

>> No.51916313


I know this is quite late, but that didn't use to be the case.
Integrated soundcards used to either not exist, or be poor sound quality, and use up valuable cpu resources.

You don't give a fuck now about either because the integrated got to the point where it's nearly as good, or as good as discrete.
We're approaching that point with GPU.
Already, if you don't need to run games, we are at that point.

Same for network.
We're in the exact same situation with GPUs now, they're starting to become decent integrated, and integrated is everywhere now.

>> No.51916360

For soundcards, it also used to be that if you didn't have a discrete card, games would run with noticably worse audio quality, audio features turned down, etc.

EAX features man.

Now integrated can do it all, although those old games might need some emulation stuff to turn those features on and get higher sound quality.

>> No.51916367

HBM + the switch to 14nm will probably be the realization of this. Honestly even with ddr4, there will probably be at least one SKU on the second generation of APUs to land on the AM4 socket that provides functional CPU and GPU power for ~80% of gamers on 80% of games.

>> No.51916401

I hate that intel is starting to throw proprietary shit and DRM into their GPUs right when they become good enough for higher end gaming.

>> No.51916411

proprietary software driver wise I mean.

>> No.51916426

i have no idea what you're talking about, please enlighten me?

I thought AMD and Nvidia were guilty of that as well.

>> No.51916657

RAM slot splitters. It would probably work if you used appropriately paired modules on each splitter.

I'd also like to see a modern video card that supports 240p component output, so I can play my emulators on a real CRT without using some gimped low-powered device like a Wii or RPi.

>> No.51916696


Don't they do 240p RGB any more?

Is there some sort of retroarch filter which will convert RGB > YPbPr in software?

>> No.51916824

GM206 GTX 750 soon, anon. It will not require any external power connector

>> No.51916968

>I'd also like to see a modern video card that supports 240p component output

are you talking like a legit 240p RGB arcade CRT, or is there some other reason why 480i over the analog path of DVI-I isn't good enough?

>> No.51917073


480i a shit.

>> No.51917103

They are, but intel used to not be.
That's why they were a good option.

>> No.51917146

then why were intel drivers on linux always a shit for gaming?

>> No.51917150

does line-doubled 240p content really look that bad over 480i or 480p?

>> No.51917166


It does over 480i, but if you either line double or insert scanlines for 480p then I think it looks fin.

>> No.51917214

Because intel GPUs are only now starting to get good for video games.

Plus they work pretty nicely, they are just beaten by the nvidia ones.

>> No.51917219

seriously though, shouldn't the RAMDACs on any GPU with a DVI-I port be able to push out analog shit down to [email protected] to a multi-sync CRT monitor with no issue?

>> No.51917279

seems like they generally have lagged behind compared to the general parity nvidia blobs have enjoyed, though:


>> No.51917290


No monitor will take [email protected], it'd have to be letterboxed for a 15KHz CRT TV and also linedoubled for a 31KHz CRT monitor.

>> No.51917294

480i sucks shit, alright. I want REAL 240p output for things like NES, SNES, Genesis, PS1, and N64 emulation.

>> No.51917303


>Real 240p for N64 emulation
I understand wanting it for 2D games, but why 3D ones you can emulate at arbitrary resolution?

>> No.51917333

PS1 games suffer from weird graphical glitches at anything higher than native res, and as for N64 games, all I can say is muh nostalgia.

>> No.51917352

were old CGA/EGA modes all transparently line-doubled by the adapters back in the day?

I honestly can't remember what it looked like very well, and my last CRT was a 30-130kHz model, but I don't know if was ever even using less than 640x480p at that point.

>> No.51917376


PS1 3D games have weird issues because of the quirks of its early 3D rendering system, but they're mitigated if you use an integer multiple of the original resolution.
2D games at 240p is fine.

>> No.51917384

Post pics please

>> No.51917437

5th gen systems aside, the point is that I want to be able to hook my PC to my CRT TV through component and not have the image look like shit. Way back when I had a Pentium 4 rocking a Radeon 9000, I actually used composite out (bleh!) because I didn't know any better, but even then it still looked alright for low res stuff. I even remember playing Descent in DosBox on my CRT.

>> No.51917491


Well, that's dependent on your graphics card supporting 240p output (mine does but it's pretty old) and being able to convert the RGB to YPbPr.
If your graphics card supports sync-on-green then maybe you can get a pseudo-YPbPr signal out of it with some screen filter and no extra hardware.

>> No.51917632

a form factor that mounts the ram on the under side of the board.

pci-e break out boards e.g. 1 pci-e 16x v3 to 4 pci-e 8x v2

>don't signal when I change lanes
plz drive blind folded

>> No.51917705

Yeah, but nvidia has a hell of a lot more experience in this particular field.

For non gaming tasks, the intel drivers work fine, they are workable for games, and getting better, and, with the exception of that blob, OSS.

They are also much nicer to install.

>> No.51917802

i wont deny they are easier to install, probably. nvidia's are only slightly less awful to install than the amd blobs, which are some of the most ornery linux apps I've ever had the displeasure of working with.

>> No.51917860

Normally I can just let the package manager take care of it, so I rarely worry about it these days, but the intel ones are just OOTB working, no having to tell the package manager to fetch something, and integrate better/cause less issues.

>> No.51917868

CPUs with HBM inside and no RAM slots on the motherboard.

What? You want to upgrade your i5-8800K from 4GB? You can go for the i7-8900K which has 8GB (it only costs $300 more), or the i7-8950K (which only costs $500 more)!

>> No.51917886

This will never be the only option; just one of an increasing number of options. They don't want to lose market share to ARM, now do they?

>> No.51917998

If it allows Intel to jew up the prices even more, then you can bet your ass it will happen. And it won't make any difference against ARM; normies won't know the difference, and gamers will have their parents buy the i7 for them.

The only concern I'd have is how the hell would you make multiple physical CPUs access each others memory on a multi-socket system, like in servers, since the multiple physical CPUs would then also need to be connected with a bus as fast as the HBM2 chips.

>> No.51918251

mnpctech just started making those.

>> No.51918587

People didn't customize those as much as CPU, memory or graphics. Pretty much the only sound card worth a shit was a SoundBlaster, and nobody really gave much of a shit about NICs outside of servers as long as they were fast enough.

>> No.51919252
File: 476 KB, 1354x799, flexible_form_factor_system.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

here's my general wish list for a flexible form factor.

> ~8w*11h*11d standard case, with big 200mm fan in front, removable top and side panels
> ~8x10 flat-mounted mobo with bottom mounted card riser slots
> 4x full height plus 4x half height cards mounted parallel to mobo via 2 perpendicular risers
> full height cards both sides with ~1.5" wider case for quad SLI/CF people
> risers could be shorter for shorter cases
> slightly taller cases for taller CPU fans and/or front 5.25" bays
> standard ATX size PSU on bottom, top mount option available for the brave

the main idea is that a single motherboard and PSU size could work with a much wider array of case form factors by switching out PCIe risers of different slot counts.

if you wanted to go really fucking tiny, you could have no installed riser, on-mobo APU and m.2 storage, and have the whole thing in like a 8w*6h*10d cube for a standard-size board.

>> No.51919290

NICs go back a lot farther, back when cat5 was just coming out, NICs normally weren't even built into mobos, and there were a lot more options.

And it's not like we have many more choices for desktop GPUS, it's amd, or nvidia for games.

Soundblaster was a whole line.

>> No.51919896

The average shitbox right before NICs started going into boards was usually running some shitty Realtek NIC if it was a home system or a 3Com EtherLink if it was a business system, I also occasionally see Netgear shit as well.

>And it's not like we have many more choices for desktop GPUS, it's amd, or nvidia for games.
But there are a bewildering number of individual choices within those ranges, and they're frequently swapped, upgraded, or paired with different hardware. You can reuse a generic NIC in a new system with no performance detriment, you can't say the same about a CPU or GPU.

>Soundblaster was a whole line.
And rarely did anyone purchase anything better than the baseline CT4750 SB128s that utterly pervaded hardware back then.

>> No.51920544
File: 255 KB, 838x522, 1450392132670.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

i like it but i was thinking more this

>> No.51920582

whats even the point of having two CPUs

>> No.51920762

The same reason we have more than one core per CPU?

>> No.51921218

then why not just one cpu with a ton of cores?

>> No.51921498
File: 786 KB, 1233x1489, flexible_form_factor_system2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I see where you're going, but that layout forces users to trade off between CPU cooler height and number of available slots.

Anyway, I decided my earlier mockup sucked, so here's a bit more flexible way to position the riser while still not needing one at all for the most common/compact use cases...

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