Is the fashion community overdue for a new renaissance?

[Anonymous No.15751801]

I've been following the fashion industry well into my adult life now, and it seems like the old guard who were well-versed in the actual discussion of design and industry are slowly tricking away. Then being replaced, not by enthralled hobbyists, but by kids just looking to score some credibility.

This isn't to say that loud brands and labels are some new phenomena, but that the discussion of real, artisanal work and the concern for actual history is slowly falling by the wayside.

Even the most popular "archive" pages seem to serve an audience of people who follow simply for the aesthetic and to click "like" when they see a pretty picture.

Especially here, where even 5 years ago you could find a thread or two at least discussing designers and their work but now every thread seems to just be someone asking for a shortcut on how to spend their money to optimize the number of compliments they get rather than actually being concerned about fashion as a real, time-consuming hobby.

Will we ever get the days of how forums like Stylezeitgeist used to be back? Or are we doomed to keep falling for the meme of instant gratification and flash-in-the-pan trends?

(And if anyone has a site they know of where I can relive the glory days of actual discussion post it here)

[Anonymous No.15751843]

There is no actual online fashion discussion anymore. SZ used to be good for separating the wheat from the chaff with respect to niche brands, but egomaniac autists (Faust) killed it.

The problem with this board is 2 fold. First is anonymity. On other sites, you’re exposed when giving criticism. It means you’ll be blown the fuck out if you post shit fits but attack others. Here autists mass reply in /waywt/ threads with
>shit
>meh
>uhhh I suck cocks
It also means that no information from here is reliable since there is no incentive to be truthful or accountability.

Second problem is this board is comprised primarily of underaged teens/college freshmen. If I had to take a guess I’d say at least 80% of posters are poor. Board “culture” is absolute trash. It feels like /r/malefashion circa 2012. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but fashion takes money. Richfags have long abandoned the board because of the salty poors.

So what are we left with? Poorfags jerking off some dogshit Uniqlo collab, waywt threads that look like Reddit crossposts, braindead hypebeast “sneaker heads” and unreliable or outright deceptive information dissemination as a result of anonymity. This board has no value and should be deleted.

[Anonymous No.15751854]

streetwear/high fashion went mainstream and now upper middle class assholes with no actual interest/involvement in fashion/urban culture/streetwear are in it just for the popularity/money
archival fashion is now being taken over by the same supreme hype beast types
stylezeitgeist died, ktt isn't really a thing anymore, reddit is obviously a fucking shithole
all the actual discussion went to instagram/discord groups

[Anonymous No.15751931]

>>15751843
I guess it just feels like I've missed some mass migration somewhere along the way.

I see massive facebook marketplaces for buying and selling niche brands. Grailed, as shitty as a platform and a community as it is, is still a place you can get tons of attention on lesser known stuff with people clamoring to spend on stuff that doesn't have a logo slapped across it.

It's hard for me to get my mind around the idea that these are people sitting in isolation building an appreciation for the brand with the absolute drip feed of knowledge and no good single source of info anymore

[Anonymous No.15751958]

>>15751931
but they don't have an appreciation of the brand.
there's a reason why people only talk about the loudest, trendiest, and most popular "archival" pieces. hype beast culture lives on

[Anonymous No.15751988]

Streetwear and instagram fuccboi culture killed fashion

[Anonymous No.15752036]

>>15751958
This is an oversimplification of the matter. There's a constant stream of people buying Ann, Lad Musician, Damir Doma, Kapital, C.P. Company, Jil Sander. Tons of mid-range stuff that flies in the grey area between the two groups you're describing. I think the people who are loyal to brands in this area are a completely untapped demographic for actual communication, and if you give them a proper platform to share those interests a wider resurgance could follow.

The major issue seems to be that there's no "hub" for information. It's stuff that happens a couple times a year and nobody's writing it down in one place, especially on here where any useful information vanishes into the ether so nobody can find it again.

I can still spend hours going through SZ threads just soaking up the details and, I doubt there will be anything quite like that again, but I wish there were community sourced sites almost like a real wikipedia that would serve to help these people keep the information they have permanent.

[Anonymous No.15752049]

>>15751988
I think fashion would die completely without it, reduced completely to fast-fashion where it succumbs to instantaneous trends. At the very least hypebeasts and fuccbois normalize the idea that clothes might have more value than the $5 sale rack at H&M.

[Anonymous No.15752069]

is there a place where people still congregate around interesting men's fashion? the waywt here are fucking garbage and reddit sucks too. i miss the sufu waywt. can't find any good discord groups but would def be down to join some

[Anonymous No.15752089]

>>15752036
that's fair.
there's still legitimate fashion discussion on archival pages (as much as they're played out) and fashion meme pages.
the problem is that you'd have to gatekeep something like that, and I highly doubt that the people who buy kapital or jil sander want it to become mainstream and get taken over by the hypebeasts and people only in it for the trend

[Anonymous No.15752096]

>>15752069
I had a really good discord group that lasted 3-4 years before it died out. We flew cross-country to hang out multiple times and still all see each other if we're in the city of anyone else, but I miss the heydey where people actually talked regularly. Haven't found a replacement for it yet sadly

[Anonymous No.15752105]

>>15752089
Yeah, instagram is such a shit platform for that kind of stuff though, and it's a real shame that it ended up being the biggest.

Nothing quite like being unable to filter for what you want, having no search functionality for comments, and the fact that a discussion might be spread across 100 separate posts over the course of a year.

[Anonymous No.15752120]

>>15751801
stylezeitgeist for all it's posturing was basically just 30 year old childless men who spent all their money on trendy clothes but, decided they were better than everyone else cause it was made by an italian grandmother in the alps it died not because of faust but because no one gives a shit about burnt out gothic clothes anymore

>>15751843
fashion does not take money, at least not the way you're implying it does. you don't need full designer clothes to be "fashionable" or maintain an interest in fashion don't be stupid


>>15751854
fashion has pretty much been resigned to the upper middle class for the last couple of decades probably a bit longer, look at who works in fashion lmao

but you are right all discussion that is had is in closed off private chats :) sure hope you're good at making friends who know shit about fashion :)

>>15752089
kapital was a brand that cool fashion people liked around 2014-2015, knowing kapital meant the same thing then as liking brands like stefan cooke, sulvam, anrealage, doublet etc mean now. kapital will never be actually mainstream but it's "capital" (heh) as a cool fashion brand in internet circles has all but been used up, normie kids in suburban ontario fucking wear it now think about how insane that is lmao

>>15752096
sad when the groupchat dies happens tho

>>15752069
no there is no centralized spot for this, this is for 2 main reasons i think

1. people who actually know shit about fashion don't hang out online because they're busy doing shit in fashion

2. for the handful of people who actually know shit and DO hang out online theres thousands if not tens of thousands of retarded pseud teenagers who dont' fucking know anything about anything.

i mean check out the leather jacket thread up right now, some retard thinks you need to drop 2k+ to get a quality leather jacket like how do you combat ignorance like that online when threres 100 dudes like that for every 1 guy whose knows whats up

[Anonymous No.15752122]

>>15751931
people with sufficent clout just move onto the next cheap brand they can find on yahoo japan to shill for the next 6 months, constant practice is selling armani sweaters now ffs LOL

[Anonymous No.15752141]

>>15752122
Yeah most of the grailed staff abuses their power to do this a few times a year. Which is hilarious to watch. Find some niche to buy up stock of (usually a single collection) that nobody's really paying attention to, then release a "spotlight" for it, call it a classic, an archive, a grail. Then drip feed them across their personal stores at a 4x markup.

Issey Sport Bomber and CdGH split logo are some of the worst offenders.

[Anonymous No.15752152]

I would really like to see a revival of well made classic clothing. I think Many of people Would.

[Anonymous No.15752200]

>>15752036
>no hub of information
Yeah. It goes with how insular and splintered men's fashion is today. There's the replica dudes who are obsessed with repros and vintage stuff, they kinda bleed over into denim nerds, denim nerds might also obsess over shoes & leather grades, shoe guys might also be suit guys, and suit guys split off into more areas still. And all that is pretty separated from people who care about what's on the runway. Ivy, techwear, streetwear, sneakers, denim, bespoke, are all these separate habitats & while you can kinda katamari damaci style roll up info from each group, there's no central place to meet
If you ever read the comic Transmetropolitan you can see one of the defining features of the futuristic world it portrays is everyone dresses in their own freaky ass style. Hippies walk down the street next to people with genetic mutations and others with cyber implants and shit. That's what I feel it's like to dress today. Microcosms of movements too small to even be called a subculture.
I can't think of a job more ridiculous than a trend forecaster today. For real, good luck trying to feel like anything but a soothsayer or world class bullshitter by getting paid to research what's on the horizon for the fashion industry as far as season trends go. Is there a right or wrong answer? I don't know. Sometimes it feels like most of this industry is a joke being played directly on the consumer.

[Anonymous No.15752240]

>>15752141
yeah hahahaha it's hilarious how open they are about being pricks , and now they're losing their shit over sellers leaving to jawnflip

[Anonymous No.15752241]

>>15752200
And don't forget the part where each of those is impenetrable in their own right because they mostly keep to themselves anyways, forcing any newcomers to once again carve out their own tiny niche for themselves

[Anonymous No.15752263]

>>15752240
Dunno what they'd be upset about, it's hardly actual competition at this point. That site has a grand total of 2 Homme+ listings that have ever sold. I'm not about to switch over anytime soon.

I'm actually super butthurt about yahoo auction flippers to start with because I actually live in japan and they absolutely have completely fucked up the secondhand market here for people who actually want to wear the clothes and not just sell them off for a quick buck. A few years ago it was easy to get tons of nice brands for pennies on the dollar just walking into a secondhand store. Now I have to compete with a bunch of shitty teenagers who are dropshipping rakuten listings for 3x markup on grailed without putting any money down.

[Anonymous No.15752266]

>>15752263
oh man don't get me on those guys fuck, normal shit like yyph linen pants are like 2X what they used to be

cdgh jackets were gorgeous basic jackets you could find for 5-10k consistently any day of the week and now i see some getting listing for like 30-40k it's fucking insane

man i saw a drop shipper on grailed and ended up just reverse image searching stuff to buy it, it was hilarious how grailed allows that shit

[Anonymous No.15752674]

>>15751801
/fa/ has gotten worse and it was already bad.

It's full of underaged poorfag zoomers now that speak in memes and cannot communicate a coherent thought

[Anonymous No.15752677]

>>15751801
There are too much underaged poorfag teenager zoomers on this board that don't know anything about fashion and follows hype

[Anonymous No.15752681]

>>15751801
Hypebeast poorfag streetwear teenaged teenager zoomer faggots ruined this board.

[Anonymous No.15752702]

Hypebeast poorfag streetwear teenaged teenager zoomer faggots ruined this board ( /fa/ ).

[Anonymous No.15753663]

>>15752702
>>15752677
>>15752674
You guys are really scraping the bottom on your ability to talk like normal humans huh?

[Anonymous No.15753675]

It’s funny how all of you seek genuine social interaction online. Nothing can make up for the human need to interact with humans, and not text that we assume to have been written by a human on an anonymous forum. Weeping over the splintering and polarization of small social groups will do nothing. Get outside, catch COVID-19, and reincarnate as a plant who will be killed by the morally superior vegans.

[Anonymous No.15753691]

>>15752266
Yahoo auctions is no longer safe, I almost never see anything good there anymore that's actually a "deal" instead of just fair. Best way now for me at least is secondhand sites that require a local address and phone number to sign up, that way even if they ask a proxy there's still a delay in how fast they can buy it since they have to wait for a response. You can still get nice stuff like that but I'm sure as time goes on more and more people are going to start pricing *for* the proxy buyers rather than following the domestic demand.

It's a bubble that will burst someday I hope, the biggest problem is people trying to make an entire business out of it but once people start selling off personal collections I think it'll drag the prices back down.

Speaking of CdGH/H+ though, I think a lot of it is super undervalued just because there's 40 years worth of collections worth of stuff out there. Kawakubo's going to retire or die in the next decade and people are really going to start pouring over it and deciding the most iconic stuff to prop up because honestly that brand has almost 0 "grails" that people actually know as it stands, and I can't imagine it's going to stay like that forever.

[Anonymous No.15753698]

>>15753675
brb gonna go to bars and ask people what they think of selvedge denim until I have a crew.

[Anonymous No.15753704]

>>15753675
based

[Anonymous No.15753742]

>>15753675
lmao I feel you. Veganism inspired by religion and well-thought philosophy is admirable, but the vegans who flaunt their “higher” morals are just the worst. Most believe its bad to eat animals as they suffer and feel pain so the solution is to beat plans and vegetables and other things that don’t feel pain. I agree that animals feel pain, but to say eating plants and vegetables is the solution because we can’t confirm whether they feel pain is just so wrong because of the Devil’s Proof.

[Anonymous No.15753806]

>>15753691
yeah people have already tried to capitalize on it, it's friggen weird cause as you said theres no "grails" except for people who are really really really into the brand already also i reckon kawakubo will live till 100 and work until she dies ;)

[Anonymous No.15753814]

>>15751801
Props on a good thread!

I think you're just not looking in the right places. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, seems like most discussion has moved to discord. I lurk a couple pretty active ones, though im sad the yohji/cdg channel died (probably revived somewhere else). Styleforum is actually somewhat chugging along and has sizable active threads on designers like yohji or stephan schneider.

I dont think youll have much luck joining discord servers now unless you already know the right people since it seems the point is to gatekeep and keep trolls/entry level posters out.

[Anonymous No.15753823]

>>15752266
lol im actually kind of glad grailed allows those accounts. Makes it easier to find deals through the grailed search engine. I just favorite them and then reverse search through yjp.

[Anonymous No.15753855]

>>15752152

I am not sure what type of clothing you are referring to, but paul harnden, isabella stefaneilli, geoffrey b small, john alexander skelton, and elena dawson are quietly producing incredible clothing with an edwardian / victorian twist. really cool stuff, I'd reccomened it.

[Anonymous No.15753862]

>>15753814
You'd think needing to gatekeep would be less important on something with an identity tied to every post.

People I would think tend to be a little less forward with their thoughts when people automatically will associate it with them for the rest of their tenure in the group if they don't steadily improve and refine their ideas.

[Anonymous No.15753865]

>>15753814
A lot of the fashion discord servers are inactive

[Anonymous No.15753881]

The reinassance is already happening, Japan is ground zero.

https://tokyofashion.com/category/tokyo-street-snaps/

[Anonymous No.15753885]

The renaissance is already happening, Japan is ground zero.

https://tokyofashion.com/category/tokyo-street-snaps/

[Anonymous No.15753902]

also SuFu and SZ died because of IG, you go to IG and follow your tags to filter out the shit and discover new things.

where in the west can you see all these type of styles, there is an over saturation of streetwear hypebeast ig flexers walking around even in middle of nowhere america

the US is too conservatitve for fashion, they follow trends or reject them through normcore
anything outside of this and you're seen as an outsider, sure there are a few metropolitan cities where this is not the case, but even there things are stale

[Anonymous No.15753921]

>>15752049
idk all the instagram stars that flash their gucci and stuff give normies the false idea that the products and lifestyle are somehow attainable without spending the money. That has created this legion of broke kids who just sit around lowballing shit on Grailed. Then you have the other side of the coin where streetwear resellers have driven a market for overpriced garbage with a logo slapped on it, which gives normies the false idea that a gildan shirt with the dhl logo on it should have the same monetary value as a high quality designer piece.

[Anonymous No.15753924]

screaming my heart out

[Anonymous No.15753927]

>>15751854
I think this is the main problem. This and all those big brands getting in on streetwear cashing in, charging $400 for a screenprinted hoodie because even if you don't buy it, 20 dumb chinks will.

It dilutes whats on the racks in shops so nearly everything in selfridges is some variant of this streetwear crap now because it's what normies want. And if you want actual fashion, thats now been priced even higher so there's not much for people with a bit of disposable income but not on 4 digit figures for 1 garment territory level

[Anonymous No.15753931]

>>15753885
>>15753902

I live in Japan, and using curated cherrypicked photographs of Yohji fits, probably the most surface level "avant garde" designer this country has, is hardly representative of some general trend that signifies that people actually care about anything beyond the brand name in the same way that someone in NY wearing Rick Owens would

It sounds like you're praising it simply because it's not the west rather than actually praising the merits of what you posted. Fashion shouldn't just be about breaking the mold and just "being different" isn't indicative of passion towards design and industry, but rather signifies someone seeking an outlet for rebellion rather than the interest in fashion itself being the underlying catalyst.

[Anonymous No.15753953]

>>15753855
Yes but the capital required to start and then run such a label is immense. That's why most artisanal labels are started by independently wealthy people. That's also why the prices have to be so high and why so many of those labels are shutting down. I cried a little when Ria Dun closed up shop. It's inevitable though really. It's expensive to run a normal fashion label let alone a label working with Saharan snake poop based dyes and reconstituted quinoa fibers.

[Anonymous No.15753984]

>>15753927
Maybe this is true for the midrange and new money brands,but I think you're vastly underestimating the role the graphic tee has played in high end space for decades. Brands like raf and comme have had graphic tees on the runway for going on 20 years. And as for more artisinal brands I can't think of any going the way you described. It seems like a problem restricted to LV, Gucci, and department store wannabes more than a regular fashion trend

[Anonymous No.15754044]

>>15753953

Unfortunately, yes. However, I have seen in china guidi and ccp are really blowing up (relatively). Brands like Skelton are finding great success, but labels like forme de expression seem to be really loosing steam.

[Anonymous No.15754088]

>>15754044
Im gonna piss off someone with my gross lack of knowledge but i feel like these “avant garde” brands are a dime a dozen. I honest to god cant usually tell the difference between a piece from lost found, label under construction, forme dexpression, poeme bohemian, army of me, individual sentiments, etc...

Same for artisinal brands like ph, elena dawson, skelton, jm ribio, araki yuu.

Feels like these niches get oversaturated rather quickly with decaying innovation/individuality. Though again, i dont know a great deal about any of these labels.

To answer the original question, i honestly feel someone like margaret howell is a prime example of someone making timeless clothing for the modern age.

[Anonymous No.15754097]

>>15754088
Btw id love for someone to actually educate me on what does actually differentiate those avant garde and artisanal brands.

[Anonymous No.15754124]

>>15754097
avant garde is an inherently dynamic term, it's constantly changing by its very nature

artisanal refers to something more static, a specific mode of production, a specific physical and aesthetic approach to clothing design.

a significant amount of artisanal brands are no longer avant garde but they would have been around 2010. i would even argue that brands like yohji and issey are not avant garde at this point. i don't think theres much that ccp does at this point that could qualify him as avant garde either but, i don't pay enough attention to him

>>15754088
all of those brands you called "avant garde" are not currently avant garde brands, it's not 2010 anymore what they're doing isn;t cutting edge or at the forefront of design

you are correct in that they're a dime a dozen and mostly suck

[Anonymous No.15754138]

>>15753663
But it’s true their just airing their grievances. You don’t have to speak eloquently to call you a retard. It’s simple and straight to the point. The shit zoomers and poorfags are part of the problem. This place used to be dominated by male fashion fags. Now it’s riddled with fuccbois who know of drops but don’t share knowledge past the brand name and if it’s a fire lit.

[Anonymous No.15754211]

>>15754138
The fuck is a drop? A nice unbroken shit?

[Anonymous No.15754218]

>>15754044
Yes, chatting with GBS he mentioned that the largest portion of his finished clothing ends up in Japan and China. It doesn't surprise me that other labels would see the same trend.

China has a rabid consumer group of new moneyed elite who will spend on artisanal brands because of the expense, rarity, and cache. Japanese consumers buy the same labels but because the Japanese culture has not lost its appreciation for craft. To that end there are still many Japanese artisanal and artisanal adjacent labels and that continue to survive because they can do well both in a larger domestic market and abroad in the niche consumer market.

>>15754088
That's a completely fair assessment of avant-garde labels from an outsider perspective. Most of the differences between those types of brands tend to be in the materials, treatments, and details so I guess to understand the differences you need to know what each label specializes in.

[Anonymous No.15754220]

>>15754218
Label Under Construction is probably the easiest place to start because it's one of the OG artisanal labels out there and because LUC really does focus on one thing. LUC was started in '03 by Luca Laurini and overlapped with Laurini's tenure working for Carpe Diem on the L'Maltieri line and later as knitwear developer for the Continues project. LUC has always focused on knitwear and all aspects of production including dyeing, wool spinning, and knitting. Luca's experimentation and adherence to high quality materials and products are what made him so important back in the day.

Pretty much every artisanal brand that people know today was inspired at least in part by Carpe Diem and its associated projects. By the time CD dissolved in 2006, everyone and their mom (sometimes with their mom) was starting a label and all the dime a dozen brands cropped up.

Lost & Found specialized in drapey cuts and relaxed fits done largely in knits and wovens. The label didn't really dabble much in leathers outside of accessories and the occasional jacket. Early collections featured a lot of cold dyed garments. Part of their story was the romanticism of being based in Tuscany. They are also one of the only artisanal labels to produce clothing for kids. I think I could identify a Ria Dunn piece in a lineup based on the cuts and materials.

Poeme Bohemien focuses on the washes and treatments of their fabrics to produce something that looks well-worn. They produce a full line of clothing rather than specializing in particular categories/items. There are plenty of other labels that try for similar finishes and treatments but Poeme just seems to do it better.

[Anonymous No.15754223]

>>15754220
A1923 and Layer-0 are both labels born from Maurizio Altieri projects. A1923 is the project of Simone Cecchetto who worked in the footwear department of Carpe Diem, although it's unclear how much he really did there. Layer-0 is designed by Alessio Zero who worked with Altieri on the experimental Avantindietro Field project using leather that had been buried for years in a desert. Both A1923 and Layer-0 are focused on leather footwear although both also produce some clothing. Both labels feature signature pieces that change from year to year in terms of leather treatments and colors.

The labels listed above are artisanal and, as >>15754124 mentioned, were at one point avant-garde. I'd differentiate labels like those (and Forme d'Expression and IS, and all the others that are too numerous to list) from a select few that I'll get into below.

While all artisanal labels are united in their small production, unique cuts, and exacting or interesting materials selection there are a few labels that take these things to an extreme. These labels include but are not limited to Paul Harnden, Elena Dawson, John Alexander Skelton, Geoffrey B Small, JM Ribot, PR Patterson, and Amy Revier. Almost all of these labels focus on more traditional, historical, and timeless pieces and cuts rather than the forward thinking approach of the labels discussed earlier. They are also all united under an ethos akin to Arte Povera movement wherein the designers resist established norms of production, industry, and advertising.

Most of the labels are largely if not entirely handmade as opposed to some of the brands mentioned earlier that may be factory produced and may or may not see hand finishing. The production levels of these labels are incredibly small to the point that they might only have a couple of stockists worldwide. Amy Revier, for instance, is a woman who makes her own dyes, spins her own wool, and weaves one-off pieces out of the resulting material.

[Anonymous No.15754227]

>>15754223
Geoffrey B Small is known for his commitment to ecologically sound production and to the singularity of his materials. He has exclusive contracts with textile mills and dye houses to ensure both the exact materials he wants and that these materials will remain available only to his label.

Harden is known for his shrunken peasant garb, secretive nature and strong resistance to advertising and online sales, instead insisting that clients visit the stockists in person so as to experience the garments first-hand.

Tl:dr
I guess my whole point here is that you're not wrong and there are/were a lot of similar labels that fit under the umbrella of avant-garde/artisanal fashion and a lot of the cheaper and more boring ones are basically interchangeable (Army of Me, First Aid to the Injured, Thom Krom, etc). However, if you dig deeper into the hallmarks of a particular label you will learn what sets them apart. If you want to know more about a particular label let me know.

[Anonymous No.15754296]

>>15752120
Just curious as to how you know the "current cool brand" if actual enthusiast groups are so fractured? I assume this is just in-person industry knowledge?

[Anonymous No.15754309]

>>15754296
Instagram and TikTok are the new barometers for what's cool. Just look at what influencers are wearing.

[Anonymous No.15754335]

>>15754309
Like he said, and from what I see, the IG and TikTok guys come pretty late to brands. Funnily enough I think a lot of IG/TikToks current trends is accredited to this board.

The whole Rick Owens worship/shit posting on IG just resembles this board circa 13-14. I was shocked to see the current prices of Geobaskets. Kapital being a fairly underground 5 years ago, I think I remember it having a cult following from certain reddit waywt posters back in the day, now every IG'er is after it.

I also agree/think Doublet is about to hit the same IG/TikTok circles within the next year.

I'm just more curious as to his sources of the current "cool fashion brands" because I think he's absolutely spot on with those brands he listed.

Has it always generally just been "Fashion industry people > niche/insular online groups>IG fashion influencers>current fashion zeitgeist"?

[Anonymous No.15754465]

>>15754335
I think a better order would be

Fashion industry people > niche/insular online groups>current fashion zeitgeist>IG fashion influencers>general public if you're considering "zeitgeist" to be fashion hobbyists rather than just mass consumption

[Anonymous No.15754469]

>>15754335
I feel like the difference between doublet and kapital is general accessibility for the layman.

Kaptital is chock-full of bargains for people who just want to get in on the action, tons of jackets and pants in the <$75 range even if they aren't the obvious frontrunners for the brand.

Doublet is much more prohibitively expensive right now at least, so influencers might get in on it but they aren't going to propel it into the zeitgeist for the majority of people.

[Anonymous No.15754480]

Speaking as a relative newcomer to fashion as a hobby and interest where does one even begin to have a decent conversation? Clearly most of the people on this Congolese pottery forum couldn't find their ass with an atlas when it comes down to it. I'm starting to think the discussion is dead and I might as well just become a recluse and read books.

[Anonymous No.15754497]

>>15754480
Depends on your location first and foremost I'd say. If you live in a big city you've got real options for sure. Get a chance to just go in and get your hands on clothes you have no intent to buy. Ask yourself what feels good, what looks special, then ask yourself why does it feel like that to you. Small botiques are fantastic because knowledgeable salespeople with only a few customers a day have all the information and you get all of their attention unless it's some big department store.

Best way is to just find a group that's really into one thing. My biggest complaint is that there's very little in-depth discussion on *overall* fashion, however you can find forum threads with hundreds of pages just discussing what mill their selvedge denim was woven at.

[Anonymous No.15754539]

>>15754497
I feel genuinely enthused by the idea of conversing with people who are actually involved in the industry and I'm baffled that I hadn't considered it already. Heaven forbid I interact with people outside of a forum. Thank you for the advice, I very much appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.15754550]

>>15754539
I think you'd be surprised how many enthusiasts transition into the industry in some capacity if they stick with it for a long time. For how much attention these big brands get the number of enthusiasts really always ends up being this tiny world where you're probably only a degree or two from designers and stylists and photographers working for the brand itself.

[Anonymous No.15754755]

>>15754211
>>15754138
he's referring to drops as in when the next hyped thing (off-white x nike, supreme) drops for release

>>15754296
generally what seems to be rising the fastest and whats on celebrities. Rick Owens/alyx from bloody Osiris/playboi carti, typical streetwear from TRAVIS SCott/A$AP Rocky.
also general hype hell from tiktok/instagram. thanks for making GR Jordan 1s $250, assholes

>>15754335
tech wear is also blowing up, which is a shame because it looks like shit, especially if its the cheap techwear like what reddit and IG wears
I dont think /fa/ will be this early to trends again, the board is kind of fukt now that streetwear/fashion is mainstream. I have my doubts that people will move on from basic hype fashion, like how people don't move on from Harry Potter

anyways, I just posted about Matthew Williams collection for Givenchy on here. it's gone nowhere, unfortunately

[Anonymous No.15754789]

>>15751843
>Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but fashion takes money.

I think that's largely dependent on taste. Yeah, full wokstaw takes money or at the very least a lot of connections to put a wardrobe together with, but I see plenty of clean on here with thrifted/middle of the road shit.

>Second problem is this board is comprised primarily of underaged teens/college freshmen

I think THIS is the big issue. This board MUST be in the top 10, if not 5, of the boards comprised the most of underagedb&s. It breeds an environment where the whole board is clueless and has barely developed their own taste but still feel free to preach their ill-informed opinions at one another (Further reading: WAYWT)

Pot calling the kettle black I guess though, I turn 19 in January.

[Anonymous No.15754850]

>>15754789
I don't even think you need thrifted/middle of the road. I was buying a steady supply of secondhand stuff through college with just my internship money, you just have to spend a ton of time knowing what's good and camping sites to be the first one to hit up deals. Set aside a hundred bucks a month or so and you can amass a good chunk of "high end" 2010-2015 stuff to do all sorts of nice fits with

[Anonymous No.15755003]

>>15754220
>>15754223
>>15754227

woah, thank you so much for all this info. do you know more on elena dawson?

[Anonymous No.15755030]

>>15754469
it was just an example i threw out there, i think accessibility in terms of even knowing what the fuck it is, is more important than doublet's actual cost

>>15754296
i mean yeah if you're around people in fashion or work in fashion then you kind of get to see whats coming up the pipe, wgsn for all it's faults is not terrible at forecasting trends so

>>15754789
tbf this current waywt generated significant thoughtful discussion after i posted my fit in it ;) you don't need to know where yohji gets his fabric or what raf simons favourite sex toy is to be able to talk about fashion

[Anonymous No.15755084]

>>15754296

It's hard to see or predict what young people will be wearing outside of instagram / tiktok. Fast fashion and trends are pushed so heavily on those apps, and talking about trend prediction, just look at the number of like a photo gets. Its easier than ever to predict a trend, and just as easy to push out shitty fast fashion on the app iself to fit the trend.

On a different note, many "avant garde" darkwear labels are dying out, largely due to a shrinking buyerbase. If you think about it, what are the youth and rich people buying? It's louis Vuitton to flex on the gram, its all the gaudy shit. People want to show off their wealth, which trends toward homologation of fashion. The rise of the logo t shirt really exemplifies this. People don't want understated cuts and the reshaping of form through clothing, they want the monogram.

The kinds of people buying niche brands have largely completed their wardrobes, maybe buying a few items at retail per year. Younger people who are into darkwear and artisanal brands can't afford to pay retail no matter how much they like the brand, which leads them to go to secondhand markets. It's great to see them wearing this stuff, but also they can't support the brand by wearing secondhand. As others have noted, these brands have enormous costs due to their philosophy and adheriance to strict manufacturing styles. It sort of creates a conundrum where the brand's can't stay afloat.

[Anonymous No.15755104]

>>15755084
even the people who are into "darkwear / artisanal brands" are only buying the hyped stuff from those brands. the only rick/Raf/kapital pieces you see on instagram explore pages are the loud hyped pieces.
this fit really isn't that different from the supreme/yeezy fits of 2016. the trousers are probably a carry-over too

[Anonymous No.15755116]

>>15755104
the trousers are undercover aw2005 so i don't think they're a carry over from then

also i wouldn't really call rick darkwear right now he's very typical gay glam designer with some kinda goth rn raf and kapital are neither darkwear or artisanal

[Anonymous No.15755121]

>>15755104

Yes, I would agree with that. Rick, a few undercover items, and stuff like that have certantly gone mainstream and fallen to archive hypebeasts. I dont really consider a dude wearing ramones to be into "darkwear or artisanal," but yes, most people are just buying a single statement item to flex rather than focus on a cohesive outfit.

[Anonymous No.15755132]

>>15755116
my bad for fumbling the terms. archival fashion Is being taken over by hype beasts though. quieter brands like jil sander will never blow up
my bad. generic ripped skinny jeans were incredibly commonplace and thats what I assumed they were.

[Anonymous No.15755134]

>>15755116

Agreed, I think most brands i consider darkwear are things like obscur, carpe diem, LUC things of that nature which are markedly more niche than rick. There are a select few younger people i have seen on instagram who are putting together great fits with these brands, not focusing on a "hyped" artisanal item but rather the fit as a whole.

[Anonymous No.15755135]

>>15755132

True, some Jil items have found popularity though, like the marble collection. some people are calling them "archivebeasts"

[Anonymous No.15755144]

>>15755132
yeah no worries you're bang on for archival fashion getting ravaged though but, you have to remember archival fashion was always a marketing term. archival is used to imbue items with some kind of pedigree but, literally any past season item is "archival" so the term is essentially meaningless and has only materially been used to try and inflate the value of clothing

the people who propagated and still continue in the world of archival fashion rarely care about the clothing, i think i can count on like 1 hand the ammount of accounts who aren't crass opportunists so to say it's been taken over i think is inaccurate because it was always this horrible grift from the onset

>>15755135
thats such a horrible term jesus hahahahaha and yeah the marble stuff the aw2009 metal knits have always been a bit hype

>>15755134
this a good point because the way fits seem to be composed these days are built around a "hype" item to act a focal point and the rest of the fit sucks, i would hazard a guess that this comes from sneakerheads who drop 100s on their shoes and then match them with jeans and a t shirt lmao, same kind of mentality anyways and ensures that anyone can participate because even if you're ugly as shit, no one is looking at your face

[Anonymous No.15755176]

>>15755144

hahaha yea I would agree. Jacob Hetzer clones who get their first pair of tornadoes always kill me.

[Anonymous No.15755203]

>>15755144
right? the "culture" (if there ever was one in the first place) is fucked. I doubt archive beasts are even watching the shows or understand the context behind the clothing
I mean look at this - what the fuck could dixie damelio possibly know about sneakers or fashion or Jordan 1s? goat knows who their hypebeast trend - riding audience is.

[Anonymous No.15755378]

>>15754124
I suppose a better term then is darkwear since avant garde is a loaded word. I don't really think the brands I mention suck, just that they all seem fairly homogenous at this point to me.

I own a piece from label under construction and individual sentiments and they are actually probably one of my favorite pieces in my closet. But if I didn't see the tag, I'd have trouble telling you what label it was from.

Under "artisinal darkwear", I feel like theres only a couple labels that feel like they have a truly unique identity, like The Viridi Anne or Devoa, or some of the OGs like Deepti Barth.

>>15754220
Thanks for the very thorough response to my post. I'm sure many others /fa/ers will appreciate the writeup.

Hmm yeah, LUC specializing in knitwear is probably the only thing I knew beforehand. They have really incredible tees with interesting contrasting seams from intricate dyeing processes.

For me, the gloved tees and cold-died tees are the most recognizable items from Ria Dunn. Didn't know they did childrens clothing!

I also probably wouldn't mess with any of the other derivative brands like you said (first aid, thom krom, army of me). I think those are considered pretty much bottom of the barrel. though I've never handled them firsthand so maybe im being unfair.

>>15754223
Hadn't heard of Amy revier before, will definitely check it out! Thanks!

I think Aleksandr Manamis also has a close aesthetic to the brands mentioned here, though I have no clue about their production methods.

I've always lusted over an ED blazer, but sadly its out of my pricepoint, even in the secondhand markets. Would actually love to know a bit more about skelton and patterson since I've only heard of them but never seen their items in person.

Maybe another branch of artisanal deisgners worth mentioning are Uma Wang and Ziggy Chen (though no clue what differentiates either of them). Kind of remind me somewhere between paul harnden, damir doma, and yohji yamamoto.

[Anonymous No.15755396]

>>15755378
Cont.

>>15755121
Thank god the archive hypebeasts dont care about newer miyashita and undercover. Particularly soloist in my opinion is much more interesting/compelling than most of the stuff from N(N). Jun has always been a master of womenswear.

[Anonymous No.15755421]

>>15755003
No problem.
Elena Dawson was Paul Harnden's longtime patternmaker. Eventually she decided to leave and start her own label. Her menswear reminds me of Ann with the asymetric jacket closures and romantic dying poet vibe. The womenswear is more akin to Marc Le Bihan with the use of crepe/organza and lots of ruffles. Again, one of those very small production labels that cost big bucks due to the cost of production/exclusivity.

I don't really follow Harnden but I suspect that if you look at the seasons since Dawson's departure you'll lots of recycled designs and patterns. Dawson was such an integral part of that label and Harnden himself is a shoemaker not a patternmaker so I reckon he was probably kind of lost without her, at least at first. The same thing happened with Carol Christian Poell. His longtime designer/patternmaker, Deepti Barth, left to start her own label some years back. After her departure CCP completely stagnated, releasing no new collections and basically only filling custom orders for classic pieces. Poell is a genius but his strength often lies in the concept rather than the execution. Deepti continued her experimentation with weird materials and treatments, releasing a collection of oxidized silver garments the 'crash' collection that featured broken glass shards fused to the pieces.

[Anonymous No.15755435]

>>15755378
yes i would agree darkwear is a better term but, i'm not sure why you think avant garde is loaded? it's just a word to describe the fore-guard of whatever field it's being applied to, whether art or design or whatever since all of those fields are constantly changing and in flux so is the avant garde. it's really not so tricky to get your head wrapped around it,

however these brands were avant garde when mens fashion really took off in the past decade the term has stuck because most online kids don't understand what the word meant in the first place and so the term has kind of stuck around

>>15755396
i disagree that jun has always been a master of womenswear and i think women would agree as well also undercover's more recent collections with a couple of exceptions have been the worst period of undercover

his business has historically been male dominant (i think about 60% of his sales are for men and have been for like 25 years now) this is exceptional when you consider than in the 2000s menswear was bought mostly by women , the jun is great at womenswear thing comes from(imo) that he was the only urahara designer who did womenswear so in that specific sphere of design he is defacto "good" i think he's had plenty of really bad womenswear seasons especially as he's switched the focus of the brand from mens to womens and back again multiple times i wouldn't put him anywhere near a top 25 womenswear designers but he would probably b a top ten or close to top ten menswear designer i think

big agree on miyashita though, soloist is fucking weird and wonderful lot of really great stuff in there, hypebeasts are priced out of it as well thank god

[Anonymous No.15755493]

>>15755084
>The kinds of people buying niche brands have largely completed their wardrobes, maybe buying a few items at retail per year.

True but I think this also coincides with the death of some of the mainstay labels that once excited these same consumers. Apart from Rick and Boris (he has his own problems), a lot of the better designers have fallen off in the past decade. Ann retired, Raf went boring, Tatsuro went off the deep end, Carol was up shit creek without a paddle when Deepti left, and the same goes for Harnden. The old guard is old and their consumer base is getting old too. The new wave of talented designers are part of a new zeitgeist that the artisanal consumers aren't really a part of. The exceptions are Rick, who has managed to get maybe even more popular while staying relevant to both his loyal fanbase and new consumers, and Jun, who has somehow managed to catch a second wind and is turning out some of his best collections ever. Boris is still a strong designer but he priced himself out of the game.

[Anonymous No.15755530]

>>15755435
Hmm I guess agree to disagree? Maybe its because Im male, but, I feel Jun consistently nails cute/creepy/sexy/sadistic look for women that I love. There's so many iconic moments in recent UC womenswear for me. Maybe the only womenswear collections I thought were boring (but never disliked) since 2010 are SS20 and SS21. Actually whenever I look from undercover womens to mens, I get very dissapointed lol.

Id be curious what you think are bad UC womens seasons.

[Anonymous No.15755539]

>>15755530
Woops forgot to include SS19 as another lackluster womens season. Often times, his dissapointing collections feel more appropriate for Sue Undercover line, which is still very very good imo.

[Anonymous No.15755540]

>>15755396
>Jun has always been a master of womenswear
>posts a picture of some lord of the rings elf costume
jun has not made a single good collection in the last decade and everything that he has done since 2010 is a cash grab.

[Anonymous No.15755560]

>>15755530
yeah it is cause you're male,women don't fawn over it the way guys do lmao

seasons i think suck or were not good are:
aw94-aw97, ss00,ss01 aw01,ss07,ss08,aw08, almost everything from ss2011 to ss2021, notable exceptions being aw14,aw16 and ss18

>>15755540
disagree but understand the sentiment and i would tend to agree after aw2010 up until the nosferatu collection was a pile of hot garbage for the menswear

[Anonymous No.15755579]

>>15755132
No one can blame you for mistaking the jeans for one of the bullshit knockoffs that they inspired =]
>>15755144
>i would hazard a guess that this comes from sneakerheads
That and the people who buy a logo belt from a major house because it's one of the cheapest things available.

>>15755378
>I also probably wouldn't mess with any of the other derivative brands like you said (first aid, thom krom, army of me).
Honestly they're fine for basics. Thom Krom kind of started to fill the need for a 'dark' tee shirt that didn't cost hundreds of dollars. Just be aware that many of those brands essentially copy those that came before them under the guise of inspired by.

>>15755378
>I think Aleksandr Manamis also has a close aesthetic to the brands mentioned here, though I have no clue about their production methods.
Yeah, he fits for sure! I meant to mention him but I forgot. I have one of his classic long coats and a wool shirt. They're both very high quality. The coat has the sort of distressing that you really couldn't get by machine. Manamis certainly tends toward the historical side of clothing.

>>15755378
>Uma Wang and Ziggy Chen
Definitely. Ziggy Chen has been turning out some of my favorite pieces over the past few years and the lookbooks are fantastic. I don't really tend toward that sort of loose fit stuff but I do have a pair of his pants. The cut is perfect and the fabric feels really nice. My only issue is that the buttons are made of a kind of rubber material that is somewhat difficult to work through the buttonholes. Not a big issue for now but they'll probably fall off at some point.

>>15755396
Yes, The Soloist is great. It's definitely Miyashita's baby and the project that he'd spent his whole career working toward. Once he was free from the shackles of N(N)'s investors he could finally start designing for himself. I love him because he's one of the few designers that will dress head to toe in his own clothing and not just the basics like Rick.

[Anonymous No.15755586]

>>15755540
>>15755435
>jun has not made a single good collection in the last decade
>also undercover's more recent collections with a couple of exceptions have been the worst period of undercover

Damn, hard disagree there. I think the more recent collections have been real standouts. Jun finally managed to find a good way to show off his cultural influences while moving away from the overt formulaic 'slap an album cover on a coat' period. Fallen Man is one of my favorite collections ever.

Sorry for all the mass replies above. The captchas are being so incredibly dumb the past few days that I barely have the energy to post at all let alone make multiple posts.

[Anonymous No.15755594]

>>15752266
yeah yjp is fucked but don't think it's just for clothes. I've had a few interests that involved sourcing stuff from Japan at times, fashion, then cameras, vintage Apple computers, even cassette tapes and it's nearly impossible to get anything for a normal price. I personally blame youtube fags and their clickbait videos. If I were actually still living in Japan I'd be pissed.
Also if I see one more overseas cunt try to snipe an auction with automatic extension I'll bin my computer.

[Anonymous No.15755601]

>>15755586
i feel like jun has some grab bag where he just combines random adjectives, occupations, and pop culture references and makes a season out of it. here are my predictions for the next two seasons:

>dystopian
>samurai
>stanley kubrick film (free space)

>industrial
>village
>talking heads

[Anonymous No.15755608]

>>15755586
yeah i mentioned fallen man multiple times as an exception, beyond fallen man and maybe the nosferatu collection ss2011 up until now sucks dick lmao

meanwhile at the end of the 90s and early 00s you had 4 very strong womens collections and probably a half dozen mens collections and the 00s was the strongest period of undercover full stop , meaning the 2010s are easily the worst period


>>15755594
interesting cause my other hobbies have still been ridiculously cheap, i mean flipping mij guitar pedals to dumb boonmers is really easy, maybe it's just your niches?

>>15755601
already done talking heads and hasn't really repeated it the way he has with other bands i reckon Can has a better chance of showing up than them

[Anonymous No.15755610]

>>15755601
he already did a talking heads collection, a clockwork orange collection, and a samurai collection

[Anonymous No.15755615]

>>15755610
tbf he has repeated motifs before, i mean Can showed up like a half dozen times in the last decade

that said, anon's predictions are terrible lmao

[Anonymous No.15755618]

>>15755493
I think Boris is rising a bit now that his stuff like his salomons are popular with the gorpcore/hikercore types

>>15755594
I can only find arc'teryx in XS and visvim Christos in S in Japan and the prices are fucked. Mercari is still pretty decent (more individual sellers/people compared to shops on YJP) and fril/rakuma is a mixed back

[Anonymous No.15755623]

>>15755540
I'm glad many people on /fa/ think this, whether you're just regurgitating someone else's hot take to seem in the know or not. Hopefully itll influence resale value and Ill cop more UC for myself :)

>>15755560
Obviously im cherry picking here but you should check out there's a pretty dedicated following of females in korea that rock modern UC.

https://www.instagram.com/19901222/
https://www.instagram.com/loneweas/
https://www.instagram.com/ann__darc/
https://www.instagram.com/leeseokyeon/

menswear for UC has always been very spotty, I agree, but again, I only claimed his womenswear was compelling :) His menswear almost always just seems to be a watered down version of his ideas for womens. Though I really love the dylan thomas collection.

>>15755579
Very green you own manamis and ziggy. I have one Uma Wang blazer that has a very tough construction and beautiful earthy tones. Maybe due to handmade construction though, I've noticed it's very asymmetrical lol.

[Anonymous No.15755626]

>>15755608
>yeah i mentioned fallen man multiple times as an exception
Sorry, where did you mention this? I can't seem to find anything other than blanket disgust with Jun 'with a couple of exceptions' that were never specified.

[Anonymous No.15755635]

>>15755626
sorry, disgust with the post 2010 work

[Anonymous No.15755650]

due to personal circumstances, I haven't looked at anything fashion related for around 4 years. I think the only thing I ever even noticed in the past few years was the death of Vetements because I saw a hoodie on massive sale in ILMO Outlet, Seoul.

With that being said, the state of fashion looks barely any different to when I stopped paying attention, deleted social media etc. Granted, I was never really knowledgable on avant garde fashion (this thread has been incredibly interesting actually) but the trend of blurring the line between UK Chav circa 2000s / expensive streetwear still seems a thing, baggy jeans (or skinny jeans so long as they're Japanese and 'archival'), techwear etc, none of these fits seem any different from what Ian Connor et al were wearing in 2015. As I said, calling myself out of the loop is an understatement at this point, but I'm not exaggerating when I say that nothing seems to have changed in the big picture, except that even more sites / groups have died

[Anonymous No.15755655]

>>15755623
my point again is that it's not as popular with women as is with men, not that women hate it or something


>>15755626
oh shit as it happens i didn;t mention it by name WHOOPS my bad, but yeah fallen man is the one collection since aw2010 that doesn't blow, compare that to the 00s where you had almost every collection being good for menswear and it's nto even a comparison

and it's not disgust with jun, undercover was the first brand i started collecting, i have probably like 50 or 60 publications and books related to undercover, i have the ss2010 lookbook, the mag curated by jun,the ww2004 book, the 25th anniversary book and magazine, the shepard, thew new SN magazine(it sucks btw don't get it) i have loved undercover at various points i'm just also extremely honest with the quality of the brand and where it's been going

>>15755635
>disgust with the 2010 work

yeah cause it overwhelmingly sucks lmao, jun went from one of the most exciting designers in japan, to one of them most exciting designers in paris, then started doing really interesting and wonderful technical collections then turned around and started doing pop culture merchandise like its been so pathetic, like a caricature of what undercover used to be

for the record i also think yohji sucks dick these days and cdgh+ is pretty mediocre with a couple of exceptions (aw2011, aw13 and ss18)

[Anonymous No.15755659]

>>15755650
>Blind and uneducated as to the constant nuanced shifts in fashion.

[Anonymous No.15755665]

>>15755659
i mean he kinda said he wasn;t knowledgeable

[Anonymous No.15755681]

>>15755659
I completely accept that I am likely blind to it, I had shut off from everything and I'm hoping for the perspective of others on what might be the only decent thread currently posted on /fa. I've become out of touch and I can't say I like it.

[Anonymous No.15755710]

>>15755618
>I think Boris is rising a bit now that his stuff like his salomons are popular with the gorpcore/hikercore types

I think that Salomon collab is the one thing keeping him afloat. Like we've discussed earlier in the thread the bottom has kind of fallen out of the dark artisanal clothing market. The bubble burst. Also it doesn't matter how many Spanish grandmas applied resin to your pants, there are only so many people who can/will pay 2-3k for a pair of jeans. The 11 line was probably a good idea but never really took off like Damir's diffusion line that inspired it.

[Anonymous No.15755733]

>>15755659
>>15755681
you're not too far off. 2000s revival is in the mainstream right now, japanese/"archival" stuff is in the mainstream, techwear/Rick Owens/hikercore/gorpcore are finally getting sort of mainstream.

>>15755710
it would be nice if people started thinking "I'm not one of those rick/raf hypebeasts, I know about __________ artisanal brand"....

[Anonymous No.15755744]

All of you should read about Marx’s commodity fetishism and reconsider your current relationship and fixation towards clothing.

t.oldfag “fashionable” prof

[Anonymous No.15755753]

>>15755744
appreciating design isn't the same thing as commodity fetishism u retard maybe you need to go reread marx

[Anonymous No.15755767]

>>15755655
>or the record i also think yohji sucks dick these days

Hmm Ill chalk it up to us having very different taste, I really loved yyph FW20 and SS21.

Also I gotta say, you seem to have been pretty invested in UC so I might just be not as critical as you. I have zero fashion mags/publications period.

[Anonymous No.15755775]

>>15755744
t. Redditor

[Anonymous No.15755778]

FF2020 < CKdeJ
The “avante-garde” designs of the latter were more accurate for its time yet the drape implies a subtle sort of occculusive. Change my mind.

[Anonymous No.15755783]

>>15755767
yeah i mean if you think yohji is worth anything these days lmao you're definitely not as critical or discerning in your tastes

[Anonymous No.15755787]

>>15755778
Hmm Ill chalk it up to us having very different taste, I really loved the 2020

Also I gotta say, you seem to have been pretty invested in UCTurnA so I might just be not as critical as you. I have zero fashion mags/publications period.

[Anonymous No.15755789]

>>15755778
Yeah, the major issue seems to be that there's no "hub" for information. It's stuff that happens a couple times a year and nobody's writing it down in one place, especially on here where any useful information vanishes into the ether so nobody can find it again. Sucks to be here

[Anonymous No.15755817]

>>15755783
I mean can you at least elaborate? Im going preemptively disagree with you if you bring up the cash grab collabs (supreme, lambo) as a major reason and not the actual mainline collection clothing. Why should I care what yohji does to keep his brand afloat? if it provides him creative freedom from financial constraints, its justified whether he sells the shit out of his ass to hypebeasts.

[Anonymous No.15755825]

>>15755817
If you did something good, you did something good. Doesnt matter at all how you feel. If you did it out of selfishnes, pitty or if you get rock hard helping a grandma over the street. That’s how I feel about using hype beasts as a steady source of easy money to keep the brand afloat.

[Anonymous No.15755850]

>>15754227
thank you anon
learned a lot about artisanal brands by reading this thread and looking up everything mentioned

some of their pieces are so beautiful they make me want to cry
because this information is overwhelming
and I can't afford them anyways

[Anonymous No.15755902]

>>15755850
Always nice to see someone taking an interest and trying to learn more. If you're the anon who was lusting after Elena Dawson jackets your next best options as far as price, availability, and similar design are probably gonna be Individual sentiments or either of the labels involving Gareth Casey, those being Casey-Vidalenc and the label he started after splitting with Philippe Vidalenc. IS is based in Japan and a lot of the casey stuff ended up over there and since these labels are less well-known you can still buy them relatively cheaply on the Japanese secondhand market.

[Anonymous No.15755922]

>>15755817

your argument about creative freedom is just nonsense because i see nothing creative left in the brand. i don't care about the collabs or whatever the fuck he does to keep the brand afloat but i'm talking about his mainline it's become a tired austere recycled caricature of yohji yamamoto, theres rumours he doesn't even do the menswear anymore lmao. like it's understandable you can't be top of your game forever but his clothes now are just self parody repeating the same shit season after season after season wow straps!!!! wow deconstruction!!! wow painted women on the clothes!!!! like it's just rehash after rehash after rehash you know?

and so when you go back look at what he in the 80s 90s and very early 2000s and even the adidas collaboration, the original y-3 stuff and previous collab was fucking sick then look at what he does now it's like man what the fuck happened lmao

it's not the same anymore whatever magic yohji had isn't there in the brand, i believe irene silvagni commented on this shortly after she left the brand as well that yohji doesn't have the same passion or fire for the clothes and thats fine and all he deserves to get his payday same thing as lang and margiela but it's not good design anymore and i'm not going to delude myself into thinking it's good design


like the attached image is sick but, it's not sick the 10th time i've seen yohji throw it down the runway and thats all hes doing now

[Anonymous No.15755990]

This has been the best thread I have ever read on /fa/ , thank you anons! We need more threads like this on /fa/, this board has potential to be good again.

[Anonymous No.15755997]

>>15755902
That wasn't me but I am now quite taken with historical-looking pieces from John Alexander Skelton, Geoffrey B Small, Amy Revier, and the others you mentioned alongside them.

Is there a primer anywhere for shopping via the Japanese secondhand market?
Or is it as simple as learning a few keywords and digging through yahoo.jp?

[Anonymous No.15756008]

>>15755990
a real problem is the access to information, underage consumerists aside, it would be quite the achievement for the average pleb to name a single person mentioned in this thread besides the obvious ones. where would they enlighten themselves? watching runways? there's no centralized database of runway videos and pictures to look at, and what if they only had a specific interest, say leather jackets? just learning about the leathermaking process and leather jackets doesn't really allow them to jump deep into the crevices of the industry or individual designers

[Anonymous No.15756053]

>>15755997
>>15755902
That was me, though that doesnt mean much since we're all anonymous :) I've been posting with runways photos (UC/Soloist/Yohji) for reference.

Damn even im learning quite a few new names and I've been lurking and occasionally posting in many boards for a while.

>>15755922
Hmm I guess for me its consistency rather than rehashing/lack of inspiration, though im a total consumer/outsider to fashion. You may be totally right and the brand is just beating a dead horse at this point. I still love all of his collections but clearly I have lower standards than the others in this thread.

>>15755922
I'm surprised given the majority of WAYWT posts to see knowledgable anons actively posting in this thread. Kinda hope people will post fits as well instead of just discussing runway. I enjoy seeing interesting/good styling on "real" people outside of carefully chosen models.

[Anonymous No.15756075]

>>15756008
right? its hard to find runway videos/photos of even basic stuff like older raf/undercover (the low hanging fruit)

>>15756053
reddit is a fucking disaster because its just fits and no discussion

[Anonymous No.15756135]

>>15756053
yeah it is consistent i just don't think it's overly good fair point

>>15756053
this was a recent fit of mine i posted in the waywt

facetasm
cdgh+
surplus gats

i'm a fashion student who was dealing with school shit but, i'll be posting a bit again :)

[Anonymous No.15756144]

>>15756135
Of course it was you lol. ur my fav waywt poster :)

I've taken a break from posting fits since I found most of the critique to be really bad/nonexistent.

>>15756075
Yeah its essentially IG. Thats why forums with separate threads are nice :)

[Anonymous No.15756145]

>>15755421

Thanks! I didn't know about elena working for Paul, it makes a lot of sense now. If I may ask, how have you come to know all of this? SZ threads?

[Anonymous No.15756149]

>>15756144
hahahahaha thats funny that its you , i don't care about the critique desu cause i don't; think anyone here is going to be able to improve my fits, i knwo what works with them and whats a bit iffy or sometimes doesn't work and it is what it is

it's more about getting into a routine so i actually get properly dressed each day plus the ego boost is nice ;^)

[Anonymous No.15756150]

>>15755493

I would totally agree with this assesment. It's going to be interesting how fashion develops now. I wonder if the depop/tiktok/cottagecore thifters/skaters will evolve or just stagnate an continue buying vivienne westood necklaces and prada keychains

[Anonymous No.15756161]

>>15755902

The elena dawson anon was me lol. I am just in love with her 7 button asymmerical long blazer. Absoulte grail of mine, it is just incredible. I am really into Skelton as well, I'm loving his block print shirts and how he uses buttons. I wish i could own a skelton shirt one day, but the price is so opressive. (I'm 18 and in college for STEM, so the price of most things is opressive hahah). I really enjoy learning more about these labels and their ethos. I will definitely look into the brands you mentioned, thank you so much for the info.

[Anonymous No.15756168]

>>15756144
>>15756135
Lmao, this is so weird. I recognize both of you from WAYWT and other sites

[Anonymous No.15756170]

>>15756149
agreed, I didn't think you posted to get feedback lol.

my fits are also just me snapping a pic before I leave the house, so there's not much "effort" going into posting. But I am actually looking for feedback and I think my fits can be pretty hit or miss myself.

Just following up on the discussion on currently good designers, who are you most excited about recently? I've been on a sort of minimalist stint and really enjoyed the work of luke/lucie meier and very traditional clothesmakers (not really even designers) like margaret howell and kentaro tamai of aseedoncloud (who once worked under howell).

[Anonymous No.15756184]

>>15756161
huh i thought that was me, I originally posted the uma wang pic and mentioned wanting ED.

>>15756168
I post here and more regularly on jawnflip since I sell off pieces in my wardrobe that dont get wear and I like the feature of tagging items. I used to have an IG but deleted it bc I was getting really distracted by it. Though it seems ive just found other avenues for my vices :)

[Anonymous No.15756206]

>>15756170
i've been buying a lot of of vintage acg, couple factasm pieces, a mihara yasuhiro sweater, whack of lululemon stuff as basics

in terms of designers i'm actually intrested in

azuma anticraft
midorikawa
doublet
anrealage
facetasm
sulvam

i find a lot of current designers to be pretty boring and theres a lot of really good clothes already out there so i find myself looking on yahoo whenever i want something new

>>15756168
i only post fits on /fa/ not sure where else you would know me from

[Anonymous No.15756242]

>>15756206
Cool pics, never heard of azuma or midorikawa. I know nothing about techwear but im surprised ur into acg. I find techwear to be some of the most boring/copy paste subgroup of fashion. Though maybe vintage acg before errolson or whatever is worth looking into.

Also Im surprised you mention facetasm but not sacai, I feel like both are somewhat similar in concept but usually find sacai to be more enjoyable (and less crazy).

[Anonymous No.15756269]

>>15756242
yes vintage acg only

anything post errolson is fucking terrible he made the brand suck so fucking much and it's still recovering from his bullshit, good techwear i don't put in the sphere of fashion guys like @xeoniq are very good and dress well but, i'm not sure if i'd call them fashionable or sort of fashion oriented people he's far too pragmatic haha

sacai i think is a better womenswear brand imo out of my price range anyways :)

[Anonymous No.15756278]

>>15756242
following up, vintage acg isnto what i would call techwear anyways and while i don't like puttign clothes in little boxes it would probably be more "gorpcore" than #techwear anyways. it's like outdooring gear snowboarding, mountain climbing, hiking etc

[Anonymous No.15756296]

>>15756269
it's nike. they don't really put any effort or quality into their clothing like they used to. never really liked "vintage" ACG, it has that cheesy 90s ish look to it and its not really as "functional" as arc'teryx/north face from that time period.
too bad north face went mainstream

I don't mind gorpcore/hikercore a la organiclab.zip, but techwear is shite because only the expensive stuff is ok

[Anonymous No.15756303]

This thread is a circle-jerk praising each other’s cocks for being able to churn out verbose nonsensical opinions on clothing design, hiding what little knowledge you have by talking brands, seasons, and the lack of a centralized information hub. cringe

[Anonymous No.15756335]

one zoomer poorfag above

[Anonymous No.15756348]

>>15756296
love the y2k look acg has it's why i buy it LOL also yeah i mean i'm not buying it cause it's functional it's cause how cute i think it is :)

#techwear is pretty horrific though, i went into the new techwear discord a little while ago and its essentially a mutual consumerism community. they're more interested in get validation on what they buy than dressing well is what it is

[Anonymous No.15756357]

>>15756303
based. but you have no right to ruin their fun, as pathetic it may be

[Anonymous No.15756367]

>>15756303
Cringe and cope

Let the niggas talk

[Anonymous No.15756369]

>>15756348
>new techwear discord
Got a link?

[Anonymous No.15756376]

>>15756303
it's fashion man what do you want? like a 5k word dissertation explaining the 15th century arti nfluences on the weave of a fabric? lmaoooo

seriously like what do you think constitutes fashion knowledge it's fucking clothes dude hahahahaha


>>15756369
it's just the reddit twc one, ever since twg was suicided and everyone moved to twc it's been a nonstop cringefest, at least twg was actually good for like 18 months before it's steep decline

[Anonymous No.15756387]

>>15756303
faggot cope

[Anonymous No.15756392]

>>15756376
Lmao reddit is fucking ass

[Anonymous No.15756414]

>>15756376
>it's fashion man what do you want? like a 5k word dissertation explaining the 15th century arti nfluences on the weave of a fabric? lmaoooo

[Anonymous No.15756419]

>>15756392
yes i know thats why i said it was

>>15756414
based i think you will find Geoffrey b small's instagram account of interest @geoffrybsmall

[Anonymous No.15756456]

>>15756376
does anyone here know where this is from?

[Anonymous No.15756457]

does anyone here know where this is from?

[Anonymous No.15756484]

>>15756008
>a real problem is the access to information
I'm seeing lots of obscure names that I haven't really seen before like a1923, LUC, army of me, where do you even discover this stuff. I get easily finding the past runway shoes of well known houses like Margiela, Dior, etc but end up stumped trying to explore the rest of this stuff.

[Anonymous No.15756534]

The reason there's no good fashion discussions online anymore is multifaceted and all breaks down into generational differences.

First of all, Gen X pioneered and established the golden era of online fashion discussion. These were people that grew up and experienced fashion in the 80's and 90's. When online communities started going mainstream in the 00's the people who founded the fashion discussion sites were all Gen X. So these were people who for the first 20-30 years of their lives didn't really have the internet. As a result being able to talk about clothes over the internet was totally novel to them. As such they did it A LOT. This is why you have stuff like Style Forum and Superfuture and Stylezeitgeist that have 300+ page threads about a single topic.

Millennials came after and in the beginning they joined the Gen Xer's on their sites and contributed to the discussions. The problem was Gen X started to age out of caring about fashion. The thing is you can only obtain so much gear. Eventually you reach a point where you have more or less everything you want in relation to clothes. It gets really hard to buy a new jacket when you already have 10 Grail jackets at home. As Gen X aged out of caring about fashion and focusing on other shit, millennials took over fully.

Millennials however were terrible custodians of online discussion and more or less suck ass. They abandoned forums wholesale for Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. They also had a sort of "got mine" mentality. They got to enjoy all the great conversations facilitated by Gen X so they didn't really care they weren't leaving anything behind for Zoomers.

Which brings us to threads like these which are pretty much Zoomers searching amongst the ruins for some remanent of a bygone era. Sorry little buddies we blew it all up in exchange for likes and retweets. You've built your own pale substitutes on Discord but those chat servers will never compare to what Gen X created and maintained.

[Anonymous No.15756544]

>>15756534
Based insight desu . Not gonna lie, this is well written

[Anonymous No.15756569]

>>15756534

As far as a "renaissance" is concerned it's unlikely. The same thing that happened to Gen X is happening now to millennials. They have too much gear and no reason to keep caring. I don't really have an answer for Zoomers. Gen X had such great discussions because they literally had to wait for the internet to be invented to able to talk about clothes online. Younger generations will never be able to get as excited about the internet.

Also social media and to a lesser extent YouTube + Streaming kills online discussions. I don't really know the intricacies of the equation but for some reason Zoomers seem to be really into being passive observers. Gen X and Millennials aren't going to help you out. You basically need to talk amongst yourselves and start and foster your own conversations. Except it seems most other Zoomers would rather watch a YouTube video or scroll an IG feed than write back and forth with other people about a topic.

So basically you're double fucked by Millennials letting the online discussion bonfire die out and other Zoomers not caring about rekindling it.

The best bet now is hopefully Gen Alpha are autistic ascetics that find social media repulsive due to their parents usage of it and resurrect the online fashion discussion on VR Chat in 15 years.

[Anonymous No.15756581]

>>15756569
correct. theres very little actual fashion discussion on YouTube.

most fashion YouTube videos tend to be annoying clickbait thats more about the person presenting them. icykof's shitty "how much is your outfit worth" gets him invited backstage at dior. unfortunately, it's what sells.

Inspo and meme pages mean that you can just get fed you taste. it's like music actually. you'd think that with streaming, people would go out and find more music, but instead they just get fed stuff by the algorithms. tastes are getting homogenous across the board because of this

[Anonymous No.15756583]

>>15755922
femme is amazing, why?
because it's actually Yohji
If you can find recent Japanese media on Yohji he can be seen baby sitting his femme line, while his right hand man takes on the mens line and he comes in a word here and there
YY has for the most part been a collaborative effort of sorts pic related, Tadashi Kubo seems to have a bigger influence on YYPH now, I think it has always been second thought to Yohji once he proved he could take the reigns, but lately it is stale, from recent memory 2011 A/W was one for the books but nothing since then
Yohji himself has mentioned a dissatisfaction with fabrics, the gabardine now doesn't compare to my old pieces, they added wrinkle gabardine which sucks and poly/wool blend gabardine which also suck
The newly added army gabardine is amazing, so is the tuxedo gabardine, for the most part fabrics have become cheaper in feel
for YYPH the classic cuts are still there though, the blazers, the pants, the coats, shirts are all still there thats why I buy it
his diffusion lines are a necessity, it basically saved his company and his "selling out" is probably a comformity to the desires of those who bailed him out financially

[Anonymous No.15756587]

>>15756303
why not open a label/topic specific thread if ur not satisfied? I admit ive derailed the original topic of discussion with my high level question about different brands which is what lead to essentially name dropping a bunch of designers. But I dont claim to be anything more than a consumer myself. I have no ties to fashion industry and Im happy being in a completely unrelated STEM field.

[Anonymous No.15756597]

>>15751801
OP this is actually a great thread so far.

Also this thread on style forum is great too
https://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-artist-is-absent-the-official-maison-martin-margiela-thread.592426/

[Anonymous No.15756598]

>>15751801
Awesome and based thread
>>15751843
This is true as hell

[Anonymous No.15756602]

>>15751843
Based insight.

[Anonymous No.15756603]

>>15755997
Oh, word. New interest is good. As far as buying from japan there's not all that much to it. You figure out what you're looking for and use a proxy like From Japan or Buyee to search and make purchases. As others in this thread have pointed out though the second hand market in Japan has been kind of fucked by American resellers. Used to be a gold mine and now it's pretty slim pickings for any well-known labels. I don't mind so much though because you can still find deals on niche labels and I've found a lot of cool labels that generally don't make it outside of Japan just from browsing Rakuten.

>>15756008
Vogue and First View are the standards for mainstream runway photos. Most labels still put out lookbooks. Rick has almost his entire archive on his website. Smaller labels and more artisanal labels are often covered by Style Zeitgeist and their forums have a shit ton of archival photos.

Retailers of these labels also tend to have some good photos, both on their sites and on Instagram. Loom, for instance, does a great job updating their blog with new arrivals and styles most of the pics themselves.

It's not what you want to hear but to learn about individual designers, methods of production, or other industry topics you need to do your own research. There's no centralized source for this shit because it's not a classroom with teachers. If you want that experience you can go to fashion school or get a job at a fashion label. Otherwise you need to put in the legwork and teach yourself. Use the same resources listed above and go from there. If you're passionate about learning this should not be a hard task.

>>15756145
See above. I have spent years reading up on shit that interests me and buying and selling clothing. SZ is still probably the best starting point.

>>15756161
>>15756184
fight, fight fight =]

>>15756457
some kid mimicking Raf SS02

[Anonymous No.15756619]

>>15753698
Is it coming back? I thought it died with the raw denim fad.
>>15753931
>simply because it's not the west
Sounds good desu
>>15753902
The culture of the late tens was worryingly stagnated, the only thing that changed was which decade to wear throwbacks from.

[Anonymous No.15756624]

>>15755421
do you know anything about japanese brand golem?

[Anonymous No.15756627]

>>15756534
>blame the millenials again
You really think millenials have some duty to keep fashion boards alive to spoonfeed zoomers? Since subcultures have pretty much ceased to exist with the rise of Instagram and TikTok it's up to those of the younger generation with an interest in fashion to create and maintain new spaces for discussion.Don't blame the older generation for a lack of action on part of the younger generation. This isn't the same as boomers deriding millenials with mountains of debt for not being able to afford houses.

Knowledge is, if anything, more easily available than it has ever been. Most zoomers just don't care to have the discussions that previous generations did. They're content to buy hype pieces and show off their #guccigang sweater on Instagram. Young people with a real interest in fashion just have to do their own work, whether that be research into fashion history and archives or finding like-minded people and fostering discussion. Nostalgia for something you never experienced benefits no one.

[Anonymous No.15756645]

>>15756624
It's a small production label founded by Japanese designer Shinsaku Maehama but based in France. It's been around since around 2005 if my memory serves. His ethos is based around the idea of change and the view that entropy is just another step in the life of a product. That means his focus is heavily centered on materials that will age well and in an interesting manner. Golem produces just ten of each piece so it's pretty pricey due to the exclusivity. Never owned any myself

[Anonymous No.15756678]

>>15756627

Bruh you basically re-iterated everything I said in my follow up post which is literally 2 posts down from the post you quoted. You basically agree with me.

[Anonymous No.15756684]

>>15756627
>subcultures have pretty much ceased to exist
How did I end up in this fucking timeline.

[Me !1n6WugqKa6 No.15756688]

>>15751843
How did Faust kill sz?
They were all too pretentious for my liking tbqh but I esp didn’t like him

[Anonymous No.15756689]

>>15756581

>meme pages

Fashion memes are one of the worst byproducts of post-modernism. Nothing has done more to suck the soul out of fashion than irony, cynicism, and detachment. If you regularly consume fashion memes you are being mentally conditioned to treat everything like a joke. You’re essentially being programmed to turn off your brain and believe that caring about things is cringe and gay. Memes are a PSY-OP to paralyze people and drive them to inaction. It’s a nihilistic cult and represents the dearth of creativity.

The end result of all this is clothes like Vetements and Off-White. Possibly some of the worst apparel to curse fashion in years. It’s time to unplug. This shit was OLD almost a decade ago with the party Wojaks. What has this type of content wrought? Memes are the ultimate conversation killer. “There’s nothing to discuss dude, this meme says that brand is cringe, it’s over”. This is the world we live in now. However the aristocrat of the soul denies this existence. Rather than focusing on the bad we channel ourselves exclusively toward good. We don’t care about social capital or the musings of pea brainlets. We value high concepts, creative design, beautiful craftsmanship. We are sincere and focused. We take these things seriously because it is a serious matter. The world is filled with ugliness. We are drowning in it. The post-modern approach of embracing and celebrating this ugliness is akin to spiritual suicide.

If you consume self-aware post-modern ugly meme brands and imagery you will NEVER make it. Unfollow all fashion meme accounts. We need to cut off their supply of oxygen so they all suffocate to death. If we don’t kill them, then they will kill us. Everything has become so cynical and ironic that actually sincere and beautiful things can’t even exist. Everything has to be a perverted self aware version of itself. It’s repugnant. If you’re not sick of it yet you should be.

[Anonymous No.15756704]

>>15756689
Zoomers communicate through memes pretty much. Lots of zoomers on this board and look where it ended up

[Anonymous No.15756705]

>>15756689

Why the FUCK does everything have an associated "unofficial" meme account. It doesn't matter if it's the most obscure hobby or genre of music or niche arts movement. There's an associated "unofficial" meme page cranking out this garbage 24/7. And due to social media algorithms this shit is ALWAYS shoved directly into your face if you follow (serious) related accounts.

You aren't allowed to simply relish the beauty of something you NEED your mandated Soijak jpeg to accompany your moment of social media usage. Don't even think for a second you can simply just like something because it's sincere and good. NO! You need to be reminded that you're just a person who's consuming and your experience is not special or unique. Look! So many other people have had the same experience, so much so that someone is now making a living creating repulsive memes about it.

Haha oh well, I guess now that I've been constantly reminded about it I guess I don't really like anything! It's just all a joke haha I don't really like or enjoy anything it's all just a laugh. Guess I won't take this thing seriously and try to contribute in any sort of meaningful way. After all that would be cringe! haha. I'll just watch as everything decays into dust lol!!

[Anonymous No.15756710]

>>15756689
Pseudo-intellectual self-wank, like the rest of the thread.

[Anonymous No.15756714]

>>15756710

Defend meme culture NOW!

[Me !1n6WugqKa6 No.15756718]

We aren’t Just doomed we’re zoomed

[Anonymous No.15756766]

>>15756583
femme is pretty mediocre as well, not as bad as the mens mind you but a long way off from like ss1999

i've heard the kubo yyph rumour a couple times some people who know a lot more about yohji than me have told me thats unlikely but i have no idea

yohji sounds like hes coping desu the slighter lower quality gabardine isn't whats letting his designs down its that he hasn't done anything remotely new in ten years now

and again don't care about his diffusion lines i understand their point and they have little to no effect on my opinion of the brand

>>15756684
something something hyper-reality something

>>15756678
lmao this thread is full of that tbf

>>15756689
yeah the zoomer meme fashion kids are poisoned by post modernism they think fashion is art and anything can be art it's a very adolescent point of view but it's also a pre emptive defense against anyone who makes fun of them cause they can just go haha i don't care about how i look because i don't care about anything or believe in anything

[Anonymous No.15756768]

>>15756710
i am increasingly convinced the people saying this are just mad people are discussing clothes in a way they don't approve of

[Anonymous No.15756834]

>>15756710
>i don't care about how i look because i don't care about anything or believe in anything
this is why zoomer fags are annoying

[Anonymous No.15756851]

>>15756583
That is good info thank you! Do you know when kubo effectively took over ph? Curious if there’s some noticeable difference in the designs. Would also love to hear about the different wool gabardines used. I love thick Melton Wools but of course those are reserved for heavy winter coats and i cant afford any of the heavy fw shit from yyph. Most of my shit is thin spring summer weight.

On topic of yohji i find it somewhat puzzling that he says he’s so inspired by the photography of august sanders and people literally wearing their life through workwear. However his clothing is clearly not priced nor designed for the working class. He himself said his clothes are meant for urban people in cities. I suppose your output and your inspirations are separate things.

I dont own much yohji due to pricepoint and i honestly know little about the history and internals of the label.

[Anonymous No.15756852]

>>15756603

Ah, I see. Ive browsed the ccp and some paul threads, but some of these brands are relatively new, like skelton, making it harder to find info.

[Anonymous No.15756864]

>>15756705
I hate memes just as much as you but the people indulging in it are quite literally walking memes themselves so it ends up being an apt way to describe them. I think the people who indulge in a designer because they genuinely are drawn to them is much much smaller than the people who buy stuff because they think they need to describe their personality with an "aesthetic" and just try to find whatever popular thing matches it the closest.

[Anonymous No.15756868]

>>15756603
>you can still find deals on niche labels
As someone who lives in Tokyo, Mercari's selection of Viridi-anne pieces is a godsend

[Anonymous No.15756874]

>>15756851
the rumours i heard said around 2014 kubo took over

gabardine imo is better suited for winter it tends to be a heavy weight fabric, it's significantly more luxurious than any melton you're gonna find, melton in my experience is quite coarse gabardine much better for suiting and that sort of thing, it wears well for that kind of wool but it's not actually very functional for day to day wear, faust from sz recently did some ama's on his ig where he explained this point in more detail

also sanders photographed everyone not just workers, i own a copy of citizens of the 20th century (not the 7 volume set mind you) and it's easy to see where yohji is drawing from and it's not always the workers :)

>>15756868
good shout i'll haev to look at mercari for it cause yahoo is pretty sad

[Anonymous No.15756880]

>>15756874
>>15756868
I could be wrong but there isn't really a grailed/depop equivalent in Japan, so all the secondhand fashion stuff that people sell individually goes on there. I got a kapital Kamakura off of there

[Anonymous No.15756881]

>>15756874
Having an account on Mercari requires a Japanese phone number, so you have to have a proxy buy it for you which can take up to a day to confirm so it's a lot tougher which is why I'm not concerned with telling people really. But if you find a brand where stuff hangs around for a few days and check often it's fantastic

[Anonymous No.15756883]

>>15756880
i mean theres lots of individual sellers on yahoo but mercari seems to be where the good deals are now

>>15756881
yeah i know a guy thankfully and he's really on top of his shit

[Anonymous No.15756885]

>>15756880
So the most popular stores here are secondhand "recycle shops" namely:

Ragtag, Kindal, and 2nd Street

all of them have huge online stores with tens of thousands of items each.

For peer to peer we have
Mercari, Fril (Now rakuten mart), and Zozotown all of which are better deals but much less curated and more competitive with other buyers

[Anonymous No.15756888]

>>15756881
you can buy stuff off of Mercari with buyee now. I wonder if that'll shift the market some more. I use Dejapan to proxy stuff

>>15756885
rakuma is a shitshow. that place is flooded with fakes and scammers but there's some deals to be had

[Anonymous No.15756899]

>>15756888
Yeah honestly it's impressive that rakuma isn't used as much considering the backing it has behind it. Fakes are super brand dependent though, I'd stay away from UC graphic tees but I'm not too worried about most domestic brands.

Mercari's got the best system in place because they have their own shipping system that uses the local convenience stores. I literally just walk in to any 7/11 and hand them the shipping info and it's at the destination in like 2 days. Even the illiterate grandmas can do it which is how I got the best deal of my life (pic related)

[Anonymous No.15756901]

>>15756899
unbelievably based

[Anonymous No.15756916]

>>15756874
Thanks again. Faust has pretty good takes and tons of knowledge. I really should watch that wim wenders docu to get a better idea of sanders and his influence on yy.

I guess confirming what was said above, i own one of the gabardine wool pants from aw20 and was disappointed with how thin/light it was. Though weight doesnt mean its expensive/quality. I just like the feeling of weighted clothing like wearing armor hence why i like thick melton.

[Anonymous No.15756947]

>>15756916
it doesn't get too into sanders in that doc iirc but the book is pictured and shown. honestly it's not a very good film when you consider that it's wenders and yohji and should have been incredible, it's like the most interesting part is the opening monologue haha especially when its compared to more contemporary docs like the margiela ones it's just really mediocre

and i have gab pants from ss2015 they feel nice they are lighter than any of the older gab pants i have but ichalked that up to the season.

the thing that doesn't make sense about the fabrics though is that yohji gets fabric from a company thats been doing fabrics for 400 years, it doesn't really make sense to me that their quality would just randomly drop in the last twenty years especially given that yohji has a multi decade relationship with them and almost certainly can get custom spec fabrics if he wants

[Anonymous No.15756953]

>>15756916
He has good takes and info, but you have to get past his tendency towards pseudo-intellectualism and holier-than-thou cynical attitude for it to be palatable. His positive opinion and endorsement of certain brands is also directly proportional to how much attention they've given him in the past (namely through his SZ collabs and invitations to Undercover events)

[Anonymous No.15756991]

>>15756678
Haha I'll be honest I didn't read your followup post because there was no indication that you were gonna continue your thoughts and the fact that someone posted in between your two posts made me immediately think that it was an entirely new post from a different person. No offense meant to you and upon reading your other post it's clear that we are on the same page.

[Anonymous No.15756992]

>>15756947
Ah that's dissapointing, reading through a couple reviews on styleforum, I thought the DNA and inspiration of yohji, particularly sanders, was a big part of the film. Guess Ill have to tread through the SZ/SF threads for more info and maybe invest in the my dear bomb book.

>>15756947
maybe cutting corners for profit margins? heard many times that yy has been financially unstable (also mentioned in this thread).

>>15756953
totally agreed, he can be a bit of a prick and he's always complaining about instagram obsessed hypebeasts, without anything really new to say. But saying that about him isnt terribly original either lol.

[Anonymous No.15756996]

>>15756992
>But saying that about him isnt terribly original either lol.

I'm not getting paid to write articles about it :^)

[Anonymous No.15757023]

>>15756688
Gatekeeping. He has a tendency to dismiss things he doesn't agree with and always wanted to be the supreme arbiter of what labels were acceptable on SZ. As the owner he has every right to do that but he's always been kind of dickish about it and a lot of good people were banned over the years on what amounted to a whim. This drove some of the members to start a new forum called Unwoven but it never really gained the userbase needed to survive.

>>15756689
You think it's bad in regards to fashion, take a look at what South Park did to American news. South Park's ridicule of current events and turning any and all news into idiocy created the template for the modern fucked up news landscape wherein people are free to dismiss facts offhandedly under the guise of ridiculing something based on an (ironically absurd) accusation of absurdity.

Yes, memes and their culture are the worst.

[Anonymous No.15757030]

>>15756868
Yeah, I've been in the market for a few things and tva has always been one of my go to labels for interesting high quality basics for lack of a better word. I noticed Mercari had a decent selection.

[Anonymous No.15757037]

>>15756992
Shamelessly trying to search/pirate some fashion pdfs and forgot that this project existed: https://www.archivepdf.net/scans

Others might find interesting :)

[Anonymous No.15757053]

>>15757037
I wish there was a good way to scan stuff without basically destroying the book and without spending tons of money. I have an entire shelf of lookbooks, catalogs, and marketing materials that I can't find scans of anywhere, but no way to scan them that actually looks good digitally.

[Anonymous No.15757064]

>>15757037
good to see that they're adding new scans there

[Anonymous No.15757168]

It can be easy to fall into the trap of lamenting how shitty things are now

Focus on what you like there is still a ton of good clothing and brands and well informed consumers out there

It's when u look at everything through the limited scope of internet designer fashion and streetwear culture that u think its everything

Taste just gets more niche as you dig and experience. My taste is too niche now that even within the industry or friend groups I dont really talk to anyone that much about stuff cuz nobody understands specifically what I'm thinking of except for me and showing it by doing it is much more challenging and satisfying than talking or conceptualizing about it

[Anonymous No.15757174]

Also the best interact in real life and not online. If u get it and have relevant skills on top of that you connect with people near the upper tiers. The issue is that to be this autistic about clothing and get to this point all u have to do is live and breathe clothing everyday and for most people fashion is a hobby and not a career path so they won't get this into it and if they do again they'll find people irl and if not they stay online wondering why nobody wants to talk about the same 5 japanese designer meme brands or whatever flavor of the day young brand is cool

[Anonymous No.15757179]

Also knowing trivial info about seasons or brands or designers doesnt mean u understand clothes

And discussing stuff doesnt mean it's useful or beneficial

I think of people are dissatisfied with the status quo then the only worthwhile response is to take direct action and try something new

Everything is much clearer when you gain some work experience irl and can contextualize internet bullshit into the real world

Also ama

[Anonymous No.15757197]

>>15757179
>Also knowing trivial info about seasons or brands or designers doesnt mean u understand clothes

>And discussing stuff doesnt mean it's useful or beneficial

you just pissed on the entire thread

[Anonymous No.15757214]

>>15757179
t. enlightened centrist afraid to have any opinions or knowledge of anything

[Anonymous No.15757329]

>>15757168
>>15757174
>>15757179
based

[Anonymous No.15757351]

>>15751843
Eff pay fukken’ bay pay

[Anonymous No.15757556]

>>15757179
No no dont ama this guy ama me. This dude doesnt know shit. Im into much more niche interesting brands. But actually, dont ama at all. Online discussion is pointless and not just a casual way to gain context about your purchases. But still ama :)

[Anonymous No.15758507]

>>15757179
you're just going to sperg about visvim again

[Anonymous No.15758508]

poo jug jerry

[Anonymous No.15759146]

>>15757030
>tva
what label is this?

[Anonymous No.15759194]

>>15759146
the viridi anne, japanese label which tends to get thrown in with the goth-y ones but it's pretty casual and a lot of their stuff isn't like that at all. pricey in the west but pretty reasonable on japanese sites.

[Anonymous No.15759223]

>>15758507
No, fuck you. Adopting a style for entirely superficial reasons without having at least some connection to it, like suoyboys and workwear. Also anything that makes it obvious you're just aping some look you saw trending on the internet, makes you look like a clown.

[Anonymous No.15759282]

Have been browsing Mercari for some of the keywords from this thread and almost every listing has a bilingual list of brands underneath it to attract the search engine.
Guess it's a good starting point to learn new labels.

[Anonymous No.15759414]

>>15759146
>>15759194
I'd call The Viridi-Anne a directional label. The label tends toward the artisanal side of things and share some of the same details as a lot of the gothy labels like anatomic cuts, high necks, dark color palettes, and attention to small details. It's often dismissed as boring by fans of the more more avant-garde labels but I think TVA sticks to their strong points. Everything fits spot on and the construction quality is top notch. I have a pair of wool pants that I've pretty much been living in since the weather got colder.

[Anonymous No.15761066]

don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die don't die

[Anonymous No.15761544]

>>15759223
yeah thats literally visvim LOL

[Anonymous No.15761877]

>>15759282

If you want to learn more about new labels but don't want to scan through SZ threads, I'd reccomend going to the brand's hashtag on instagram. (this only works for not so well know niche brands though). I learned a bunch about Isabella Stefanelli this way. Also, I've found instagram to be more reciptive. I've up dm'ed people who's outfits I really liked, and as long as you are nice, they are usally very eager to share and answer any questions you have. Some of them even helped me out finding pieces I've been in the market for. Good luck =)

[Anonymous No.15762153]

>>15756689

>>15756705

[Anonymous No.15762634]

>>15762153
this thread is a circle-jerk of meaningless highfalutin verbosity kek

[Anonymous No.15762645]

holy fuck I read all your essays and they’re all shit kek you wankers need to learn engliss

[Anonymous No.15762664]

>>15762153
>>15762634
>>15762645
This thread is has an insane amount brand whoring/fetishization and inane “discussions” that amount to nothing of importance.

[Anonymous No.15762737]

>>15762664
uh yeah it's a fucking fashion forum i'm not really sure what you come here for, nothing on this board has ever been nor will ever be "important"

like at best you're gonna get some people saying
>i like x brand because of y, i don't like z brand because of w

and then some random anons typing up essays on fashion meme pages for some reason

[Anonymous No.15762809]

>>15762737
>and then some random anons typing up essays on fashion meme pages for some reason
kek

[Anonymous No.15762828]

>>15751801
Guys I’m being trolled. I wrote those original posts and they're 100% facts. you can soijak me all you want OP it doesn't make a difference. I barely scratched the surface of everything shit about meme culture. the people who make these memes are always dipshits who are being denied access. so they chimp out and make memes because they have no other way to interface with fashion or contribute in a meaningful manner.

these are people who are both deeply interested in fashion but also talentless cowards. so all they can do is make memes. this is made even more obvious when they "make it" and their first move is always to start a youtube channel or podcast about explaining entry level fashion topics and doing intros to brands. because that and making memes are your only options if you have no talent and want to create content about fashion. also they obviously have to play to their audience which is literal children because no one authentically interested in clothes looks up memes about this shit. just think about how embarrassing that must be, to have a large following except its all children who love your takes.

also all these people dress like dipshits because they're terrified of sincerely liking something and getting clowned on for it. because they spend their whole day doing that to everyone else. so they're trapped in a prison constructed entirely of margiela and old raf. none of the people who make these memes will ever have their own unique swag or taste or perspective. they're embarrassing as cultural critics and they're embarrassing at dressing themselves. they're fucking frauds. if you brought any of them to a party they'd be the least interesting people in the room. they'd be the people who don't say anything funny, or interesting, or intelligent. they'd just mumble and go home and make memes about it.

the fact that you made a shitty soijak compilation of my posts in order to simp for these faggots is top tier pathetic.

[Anonymous No.15762841]

>>15762828
shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.15762929]

>>15762828
who hurt u?

[Anonymous No.15762931]

>>15757023
Are you seriously accusing somebody of gatekeeping while saying that fashion is for rich people only? kek the fucking hypocrisy of some people
High fashion takes money, dressing well and looking stylish takes more money than most people spend on clothes but you absolutely don't have to be rich.
The fact is you don't need YSL boots and a leather jacket combined with Dior pants and a Balmain shirt to be fashionable. You can buy all those things, from perfectly good brands with good craftsmanship for the price of the Saint Laurent jacket. And you'll still look fashionable and stylish.
You're gatekeeping as much as whoever that dude is.

[Anonymous No.15764469]

>>15762828
Fuckin’ hell....get a load of this fag boys!