/fa/ - Fashion

>>9166421
I think I saw some indie boutiques on the asos marketplace a while ago that have a similar style
shouldn't be over $100, but shipping will be huge if you're not in the UK

Does anybody know which fragrances Cara wears on a regular basis? I'm not talking just that Burberry fragrance she was modeling for a while ago.

I need to know, I want to spray my pillows with it.

>>9166519
u r the only person that finds this post funny

just keep it in ur head next time

>>9166513
here you go, I found it
boutique is called This Is Fred
https://marketplace.asos.com/listing/t-shirts/labyrinth-tee/1819139
I know it has mesh panels on it, there probably are all leather shirts out there

>>9166524
you are literally a witch

>>9166534
[le]terally ebin

I'm looking for a cool camel jacket but all i'm finding is tacky shit

>>9166534
weak

>>9166519
funny

w2c stonewash jeans that are not skintight ?

>>9167949
exact model is Levis Red Rain

>>9167979

which levis model would look most like this but for men?

>>9166421
http://www.drjays.com/shop/P1781135/akademiks/carrera-faux-leather-trim-raglan-tee.html

$16, super cheap.

>>9168008
i'm gonna hazard a guess that those are old levis 501
maybe s/t like this http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/uk/catalog/productdetail.jsp?id=5422465800096&parentid=MENS-VINTAGE-EU#/

>>9168008
i have some thrifted versace jeans that look almost identical to that but with the big old versace rivets and buttons

someone rec a hoodie under 100$ thats decently thick and wont shrink and look like shit after a couple washes. fuck this shouldnt be so hard

where to cop them or similar ?

W2C faggots

>>9168906
some poor guy's being trying to sell his pink pair
http://www.grailed.com/listings/37809-diet-butcher-slim-skin-leather-sneaker

w2c this wallet?

w2c everything but the boots?

>>9166421
ASOS has something similar:
http://www.asos.com/asos/asos-skater-long-sleeve-t-shirt-in-coated-leather-look-fabric/prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=4358049
http://www.asos.com/asos/asos-oversized-sweatshirt-in-leather-look/prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=4369513
http://www.asos.com/asos/asos-longline-t-shirt-in-leather-look-jersey-and-stepped-hem-skater-fit/prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=4338438
http://www.asos.com/asos/asos-oversized-t-shirt-in-leather-look-jersey/prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=4400432

Any idea's?

>>9169718
It's like you want to be bullied

w2c a wool/cashmere/whatever sweater that's either white or pale gray and at least a bit thick? All I seem to find is sweaters that are basically long sleeved shirts as far as thickness goes

>>9169730
Stop it ;-;

>>9169797
You

>>9169718
http://leaseonlifesociety.com/brvdo25-theme-denim.html

>>9166421
skinny leather pants for less than 100?

w2c a decent parka around 50-100 burger buckaroos

w2c cheap basics in Toronto?

>>9170580
bernhard wlhelm x camper

>>9170424
>degeneracy is not /fa/

W2c supreme x nf mountain jackets?

w2c jeans with this color and an extreme taper.

>>9170658

I think I know what they are but I don't know if there is anywhere I can find them outside of Ebay/grailed/etc.

>>9170660
Buy those and take them to a tailor

>>9170664
Try eBay or grailed. If not get a shitty knock off from alien press cuz them supreme x nf are rare and expensive anon

>>9170628
shut it fedora wearer

>>9170703
Okai !! :'x hihihihi

>>9170703
More sick ethers from SLP cucks. You guys are just on such another level it's insane. Keep it up bruh XD

>>9170702
What is alien press anon

>>9170742
aliexpress

>>9170774
They are fake right? It's like 40 dollars for supreme.. How we'll made are they?

>>9170800
>How well made are they?

Hit and miss. Read the reviews for a product.

It may take a while to ship, too. That's a tradeoff.

shoes?
or are they low b&w converses with black laces and the sticker somehow removed? I tried that with highs and they're stuck on like fuck

stussy top?

cheaper version of this brown flight jacket with the same kinda collar?

>>9171065
You must be kidding.

>>9171079
nah man i like it

>>9171087
How can you be so poor that you need a cheaper alternative to ASOS. Fashion probably a good hobby if you are either A. This poor or B. This cheap.

w2c a good backpack under 200 where I can put my 17 inch abnormally large computer, that's not one of those shiny North Face ones I already have and am tired of.

>>9171093
i mean it's $730 thats not exactly dirt cheap and i already have a bunch of other jackets so this would just be an auxiliary

>>9171111
Wtf $730 for ASOS. If you want something like that just get fucking surplus Jesus christ. Why would anyone ever pay that much for ASOS shit?

>>9171111
a ticket to ireland
steal jacket from some poor farmer folk there
come back
will probably be cheaper than 730$

>>9171130
it's actually wrangler

>>9171154
it's actually SHIT

dude-core sweater w2c

>>9171201
Ute Ploire, JJVE, Yohji, maybe Trove or some other similar bands but those first 3 are your best bet.

>>9171201
Surely this is one of those 'buy if you are azn only' white kids dressing like they are Asian is so not effay.

>>9171299
>asians actually believe this

>>9171065
>>9171087

military surplus

>>9171303
its true tho

>>9171269
thanks. Actually found what I was looking for on top of some other stuff that caught my eye.

w2c fit like pic related?

W2C ZUN hat?
Money is no object.

>>9171368
And your saying asain would look good in those shitty sweaters?

?

Pic related is a letter bomber from Norse Project. Can anyone help me to find one similar but cheaper?

>>9166421
cos

>>9166421
>>9168008
>>9169381
>>9169402
>>9169718
>>9170424
>>9170580
>>9170658
>>9170670
>>9170886
>>9171065
>>9171104
>>9171432
>>9171474
>>9171837
Is this bait?

>>9168008
w2c those shoes

>>9170580
Isn't wearing sandals with socks a very bad idea?

>>9171900
>>9171837
This one isn't.
Pls halp

>>9171904
af1

>>9171908
Asos has leather bombers.

>>9172002
>leather

>>9171905
no socks & sandals are /fa/ as fuq

>>9166421
pls w2c

>>9172482
what piece are you referring to

>>9172512
the bomber jacket

>>9172522
attachment by the looks of it

>>9170580
is autismcore the new normcore?

>>9172525
thanx m8

>>9171900
No.
I really need this hat.
My reasons are my own.

W2C?

W2c hoodie on the right? I've heard it's from H&M but I can't find anything similar

>>9166421
Kenneth cole sells shit like this

jacket like these??

these pants?

the gray shoes?

>>9172525
any good cheap alternatives?

>>9173051
/int/ is this you?

>>9173410
I don't see any grey shoes.
Are you talking about the dirty CP Achilles Mids?

>>9173441
second to last first row

>>9173425
Yes.
Please help me find the hat.

w2c denim letterman/varsity with thick cotton/wool sleeves

kinda looks like this, except this is a cheap ass one and the sleeves are really thin

saw a vintage alexander mcqueen one on ebay a few years ago, so much fucking regret for not buying it.

iirc correctly, supreme made one not so recently, but it was really tight and faggy and had "SUPREME" in giant fucking billboard letters on the back

>>9173457
Looking at that design it reminds me of something made in the 50s, maybe. Probably Asian but I've see patterns like this on old Hungarian/Yugoslavian textile.

>>9173400
>people think this looks good

>>9173482
i just want the jacket

>>9167949

w2c sweater???

>>9173410
CP achilles grey

>>9173533
thanks mate

>>9171201
Find this guy's sweater/t-shirt under that cardigan and I'll send you 400 dollars over paypal

what does w2c mean

>>9173832
Way too cool.

>>9173857
thank you, kind person

w2c liner for bundeswehr flecktarn parka?
There are some on ebay, but they are mostly large or extra large and have high shipping costs to the US.

w2c middle shoes in bottom row. I know theyre adidas, what's the model name

>>9169718
get black patchwork instead

Saw a real one a while back but can't find it

>>9171432
Cottweiler

>>9168188
zoloft?

w2c

W2c this or similar jacket?

Where to find these cargos/ pants like this?

>>9174891
Brand: SWAGGER
WASHED LONG ARMY HOODIE

zozo.jp
¥ 43,200

>>9173517
Supreme Jacquard sweater
>>9174894
Norse Projects

w2c a thin anorak? to replace a hoodie for those summer nights that are just a bit too chilly to only wear a t-shirt.

>>9174998
rains anorak?

>>9175028
Otherwise good but I've heard they don't really breath. I'd prefer something like a polycotton blend or similar.

Looking for skinny joggers similar to Zanerobes preferably from the UK

please :'''''''''(

>>9175090
Forgot to include pic

>>9175090
Fuck zanerobe off and any cheaper brands

Get I love ugly. They are NZ not UK, but the quality and design on their pants are much better.

Zanerobe for tees (derringer and flintlock cuts), ILU for joggers, sweats, all other pants that aren't denim

>>9168906

slightly different model, but these look dope af

http://www.grailed.com/listings/34276-diet-butcher-slim-skin-dbss-horse-hair-high-top

>>9175092
The retard store

>>9175103
shut ur whore mouth those creps are fresh

>>9169460
This is gr8 m8, thanks

>>9173468
Holy shit, I copped a one of those port authority ones from circa 96 or 97 like 2 fucking weeks ago, shit looks great as hell. The only complaint I have is that the sleeves are excessively puffy, as in a bit more than usual for varsity jackets, but it doesn't look bad in my opinion, I fucking love it. The sleeves are a bit thin, but it's still pretty warm.

w2c a good looking khaki field-jacket (like the m65)?
t-t-thanx guyze

>>9174899
Not sure on the exact ones but Uniqlo and Levi's both have cheap good looking cargos.

I'm returning these shoes, they don't look as cool IRL as in the photos online

Anyone know of good similarly colored NB's?

W2C

>>9175615
You'll have to browse through the various models to see if they come in a similar color. I think -- could be wrong -- 501s have a maroon.

w2c jacket

>>9175725
you cant do that anymore

>>9175729
awesome, thanks a lot

>>9175739
you realize this picture is old as fuck. good luck copping it

>>9175739
Herringbone topcoat on ebay would get you something really similar

these beautiful looking adidas?

>>9175922
they look just like cp bball lows but theyre not them how weird idk what they are

>>9175098
I've got both Zan and ILU pants and I would pick Zanerobe every single fucking day. With the ILU pair that I own, the material is extremely soft so as soon as you start moving it all falls to the bottom of the leg and builds up so much that it flips over the cuff which looks retarded. Also the drop crotches are fucking ridiculous unless you pull the pants up to your neck.

2/10 would not recommend

>>9175941
>>9175922
look more like national standards

>>9175922
those aren't adidas, they have 2 stripes.

I need to buy a pair of decent boots for when the snow comes. Thinking a brogue boot in full grain leather and dainite type sole. Medium to dark brown. Budget around 300 dollars. Any one got suggestions?

been looking for it forever
at least the name, I can't find it online anywhere other than pictures of him wearing it

>>9176135
forgot pic

the hat
been looking for it but the only pictures of it I can find are where he is wearing it
anybody know the name?

>>9176156
I wanna be reborn in your arms

>>9173410
w2c 4th from the left top row? (just above the roshes)

>>9176176
i forget how it feels to be touched

>>9174743
All I could find

id on these?

Where to cOp

W2C a good anorak?

>>9176354
white leather Vans Sk8 hi-tops

>>9176354
Vans sk8 hi

>>9176381
>>9176382
whats the kind with the strap that looks like the same ankle padding?
not sure if those are vans as well

>>9176362

They don't make them anymore. Try your luck on eBay, Y!Japan, etc.

>>9176400

SILENT Damir Doma Skates from a few seasons ago.

>>9166421

Hey guys what is a good brand that sells predistressed/ripped jeans? I know I could just buy some acne jeans and distress them myself but I don't feel confident enough to do it.

So I'm looking at a budget around $200

Where to get a similar jacket

>>9176491
My dad

Looking for a sober dark blue/navy denim shirt with long sleeves like this.
This one is from ASOS but they only have the XL size available.

>>9174443
why don't you fucking ask in the original thread you fucking retard

its super easy just make sure you wear them and mark where you want to cut before you cut them

>>9176474
yo fascist would you be able to leave your email for me I want to ask you something.

I'd appreciate it a lot :)

>>9173085
http://get.siloarts.net/merch/silo-arts-records-web-presence-white-tee

>>9177592
hey w2c tshirt?!?!?!?

w2c Comme Des Garcons x Jack Purcell? Ideally in size 8 US. Not very interested in the CDG Play x Converse ones.

>>9177906
it's like you're trying to be the same kind of different, you want the cdg play x converse but want to seem "ahead of the curve" or "cooler" by copping the jack purcells, lets be honest here though they both look like shit just don't buy them.

>>9177928
I know what you mean, but honestly I do like them for how they look. I don't do the monochrome look, but I still want them. I just so happened to pick a pair of meme shoes while I was at it.

Does anyone here know Jakob Hertzer? And if so can someone contact that boi. I've tried tweetin at him and emailing homie never replies.

>>9176491
You don't feel confident enough to own a pair of decent jeans long enough for them to wear holes through? Try it with a pair of crisp Japan Blue or United Stock Dry Goods trousers and you'll thank me later.

Pre-distressed is for faggoths, 14-year-old girls, and wannabe tough guys.

>>9177893
Get a $6 black tee from Gildan and flick white fabric paint at it.

>>9178065
they're just clothes
you sound like a self conscious dweeb trying to prove to yourself that you are 'authentic' whatever the hell that means

>>9178084
Wear-and-tear on a denim article is earned. It should go without saying. Pre-fab destruction is just tacky to me. Whether or not others believe the same thing, I don't know or care. That's just my two cents on the subject.

>>9177906
between the horizontal contrast line on the toebox and the vertical contrast line on the back i just find these shoes hideous and poorly designed. really not pleasing to the eye at all.

>>9178184
Really? I like the opposite contrast lines. Although my favorite feature is the black heart. Don't see many of those from CDG aside from the Play T-shirts.

>>9178236
i always see two guys around my small city, one with the black mmm chucks and the other with the black cdg play chucks, always together

Looking for some reasonably priced, decent quality basic cardigans.

Can anyone suggest w2c

>>9177455
i did, no response

w2c decent wool trousers for <$100

w2c decent parka?

>>9178143
I get where you are coming from but tbh I don't want to wait however long to get rips and tears in my jeans.


And to be frank I have no idea how to get that from use because I have other jeans I've worn for a year+ and it doesn't tear or rip...


I just want a small hole where my knee is...I know there are ways to "DIY" it with sand paper...etc. but if there are options to just buy it from professionals I'd rather do that.


I also saw Kanye has some nice distressed/torn jeans and I kinda doubt those are natural.

>>9175739
>that hat
>that face
>5'6' at most

Why does it keep on getting posted

>>9178317
anyone
???

>>9178567
yeah but kanye is a fucc

>>9178571

the clothes maybe?

>>9175097
W2C a jogger that looks nice, something i can wear public. Saw the Zespy track pant, but it money is quite short until next payday so

>>9176156
found it's part of the 2007 fall collection, still dont know w2c tho

every single fucking one of these threads should begin and end with the same answer
how is it possible you can't figure this shit out by yourself?
fuck all of you

>>9178184
not every shoes needs to be bland like cp you nerd

>>9178567
Use is just use. Remember what denim was for, originally. Laborers who needed sturdy trousers. And who also could hardly afford a second pair, let alone a third, if the first ever got fucked up somehow. So they wore the ever loving shit out of the one pair they owed. You can only live in them and wait until they start wearing or get snagged on a nail.

Well. I used to be into the diy punk thing. So get yourself a razor and sandpaper. Treat only areas which would see this distressing naturally. Make horizontal slashes which are an inch or so apart. Never ever cut vertically. Pick the vertical threads out with your fingers or tweezers. Use sandpaper or an old shaving razor on the edges of seams and pockets. Put them through a short wash cycle and tumble dry on the lowest setting. This will make the holes seem more natural. Presto. Use this guide I made for ideas of hole patterns. Never cut ones which are totally square.

>>9179066
Welcome newfriend! :)

I see you started tripping!

I can't wait to hear your enriching opinions on this board. As a new found tripcode user, you will find that you are joining the ranks of many great tripcode users that have come before you, including Trunks, OiOi, birthday, and everybody's favorite trip sieg!

In order to assist you with your stay on our rich website, I've prepared a couple of tips for you!

1) Being at tripfriend is a big responsibility. Like mods, you do it for free! You have a standard to uphold on this board, so make sure to post frequently to uphold it!

2) As I said earlier, you have a big responsibility. Since you have chosen to use a tripcode, you clearly possess knowledge none of us are aware of. It is your duty to spread this knowledge, because you can never be wrong. (After all, why else would you use a tripcode?)

3) Although you may possess knowledge beyond much of the regular users, you are not obligated to spread it! THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE! If you helped people on this board, then they might reach a point where they are as smart as you. Yikes! As such, contribute little despite your clearly vast knowledge so that the tripcode users remain small and elite.

From the users of 4chan to you, I wish you happy posting, friend!

>>9179272
but what if I just change it up?
what if I changed it up already?
do I have to stick with one?
am I sticking with one?
can I please be loved?
can I have a laugh?

Anyway, sure cackled there. Thanks, bud.

w2c a fishtail parka like goes mid thigh length.
kinda like the bart parka cheap monday or ace hotel x alpha industries made but more padded if possible?

Spotted this lady killer last night; w2c the sweet jacket?

>>9179313
ayyyyyy

I believe the one on the picture is from www.enfinleve.com reading from the label

>>9179313

He's still talking to a bitch while you're snapping a pic.

You're a pleb.

Get outta here fuccboi

>>9179423
lol

for this guy talking to a girl is as good as it gets

>>9179436
you're talking about a guy who had the confidence to approach the girl that you wanted to

he just made you the beta bitch that hangs out not dancing an just looking around at the club

w2c the jacket?

w2c pants on left? i think theyre rick owens, and if so, what season then?

>>9173645

how much time did you spent looking for it lol ?

>>9179644
$300 for a razor thin piece of shit. Pass it up, man.

APC Petit New Standards

I have a gift card for a place that sells them, so I can get them for around 140

w2c this dress? pls help

anyone post a similar low budget version of this Norse Projects jacket?

cba paying £300 but want the aesthetic

>>9179080
those are bland as fuck you moron, but the contrasting lines fight the eyes. enjoy your diffusion line bargain bin cash grab collaboration shoes tho

>>9179719
Looks really fucking basic, who the fuck would pay 300 quid for that?

You can buy the same shit from a sporting goods store for under 100.

>>9179719
north face

>>9179719
Kinda reminds me of Gen 2 ECWCS
Pic doesn't show it but it has hood in the collar

>>9179769
>being surprised that NPs is overpriced basic shits.

>>9179705
fuck. i have a $200 gift card to a place that only sells apc petit standards. I want petit new standards so freakin badly.

>>9177386
pls someone respond

w2c boots very similar to these, size and look wise?

>>9180130
Is the place in Canada? If it is, I'll give you cash for the giftcard so you can buy Petit New Standards.

>>9177592
W2c that North Face jacket

>>9179679
money aint a super big issue
besides, they look like they get some mad stacks

w2c a muji like ?
and i have an eastpak, is it enough ?

>>9180202
seconding this

w2c something similar to this that isnt sold out and in preferably less than $200?

>>9180415
If money isn't an issue and you like stacks then try for a pair of Julius twisted jeans

>>9178571
eugene tong's cooler than you

I'm looking for the trousers and the shirt. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

>>9177386
our legacy have a nice one

>>9175739
barena dese

this pants

>>9180745
This here.

>>9180730
pants porn, too bad it's ruined with sleeve over boot bullshit

>>9180754
Yeah. Seriously, to hell with those who cant into tucking or pinrolls.

been on the hunt for so long
w2c jeans

>>9180793
Analog Dylan jeans
The company doesn't make them anymore though so good luck finding the exact jeans

>>9180730
i would if i could fucking find a pair

>>9180793
>>9180824
Their B77 Slim is probably the closest thing still manufactured to those if you want available alternative.

w2c anorak on the far left?

>>9180838
All I ever see up for sale are size 1's. Used, but still going for full price.

>>9180202
>>9180450
theyre bed stu from like 4 years ago. size 11. ill sell em to ya ;0

>>9180749
plss respond :(

>>9170658
are you seriously going to buy a supreme/northface jacket you faggot?

w2c DEATH STALKER Sweatshirt

>>9170658
>>9180948
i'd actually cop a bunch of these fwm niggas

>>9180748
>our legacy have a nice one

Yeah for 140€, that shit ain't worth that much.

w2c not-too-obnoxious fruity deodorant i will get judged for
also w2c something like this while facing some minor financial issues
or just a long or mid length jacket that will make me look skinny and cute

I Saw this on a WAYWT thread, but got no response. Anyone know what type of Parka this is?

>>9178464
JCrew on sale?

w2c these/red wing postmans/other alternative for decent price in canada or korea

>>9181629
just an average duffle coat

>>9181629

>>9182912
kek

>>9182899
Seconded. Which model Docs are these?

>>9180427
I have the one in your pic. I like it a lot and gets the job done. I have no problem holding a laptop and a few books and shit for school

>>9171104
get a new computer

>>9182963
1461 wedge sole

>>9176156
just get the this season one its legit the same except different color letters. http://www.sneakerboy.com/shop-clothing/y-3-black-truck-cap-fw14y3adt26.html

http://www.sneakerboy.com/shop-clothing/y-3-black-baseball-cap-fw14y3adt27.html

W2c thick 45$+ tees?

>>9179218

hey thanks for the reply!!

I actually just started DIYing some black levi 511s I have that I don't wear anymore, but actually still fit really well even if they aren't as skinny as my acnes.


appreciate the diagram brah. I'll use the different methods for the different holes.

>>9181629
>dat green parka
>2015

w2c some nice suede chelsea boots like the ones pictured. These are from asos, cheap (therefore likely shit quality) and also out of stock.

I'm struggling to find other nice pointed-ish suede boots.

>>9182970
Any alternative ? Because he is sold out

Looking for long cardigans. Any inspo or places to cop? Dudecore longline cardigans much apriciated.

>>9183753
SLP

>>9183753
Saint laurent

w2c decent minimal grey coat, under $300
this one is from zara and looks good in pic but is actually shit quality

>>9183753
>implying you won't get sick of them before they fall apart

>>9184132
cos

>>9184168
thanks, they have similar coats but unfortunately not in grey :(

>>9184139
nah man. I wear my leather chelsea boots nearly every other day. I love them

>>9184121
The YSL ones are really heeled. They look weird

>>9180728
There's one on grailed in this style.

http://www.grailed.com/fittingroom/3557-jakerepe

w2c these boots? They have a black/blue tag sticking out the back

w2c good quality cable knit sweaters (preferably cotton) under $200
or grey scarves?

w2c?

>>9184522
I like surpreme,but these faggots make it look bad.
Some middle school shit right there.

>>9184522
Africa

>>9180728
http://www.grailed.com/listings/39603-penfield-vassan-wax-mountain-parka

>>9183111
Thank you sir

>>9180793

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/icefield/item/10012661

Sold out everywhere. They don't make them anymore. Sorry.

>>9179718
Iris van Herpen 3D printed dress.

Can anyone source this sweater, or something similar?

>>9181287
well wait for post-christmas sales then

>>9183257
velva sheen or real mccoys or one of those jap repro brands prolly

>>9185488
Charity shop

>>9183257
i'll sell you Gildan tees for $45.01 each, let me know

>>9184611
/r/ing pic of those high school kids all wearing those supreme sweatshirts with shitty fits

>>9185729
it's in the squad thread

>>9174894
are those sneakers ricks? cus if so this is the first time I've thought they genuinely look good

>>9178571
>The hat is nice
>Actually quite handsome
>No one irl cares about that

w2c pants like the ones on the right

>>9186388
a x

Went ahead and shredded up my Levi 511s I never wear and I'm thoroughly happy with the results! No need to buy any ripped jeans yet.

>>9187403

Whoops here is the pic

>>9187403
>>9187457
>why

>>9183274
Np

I've been working on a pair for three months now. Top to bottom black patches, handsewn, and using the more low-profile texture of the materials reverse side. Using some $10 no name jeans to do this with. Good luck!

W2c a quality maroon/burgundy sweater?

w2c jacket or similar

>>9184489
Solovair does the blue/black tag, you might want to check them out

>>9190931
sadboys/bigcartel.com

>>9190985
Thanks mate

w2c glasses that fit this aesthetic?


also bumb>>9182899

socks

>>9192693
American Apparel. I have them but theyre from like 2 years ago

>>9180753
Bump for source of the patch shirt

w2c a long knit black scarf with tassels on the ends?