/fa/ - Fashion

>>8847271
>inductive reasoning
>2014

Dude asian foreign exchange students are fucking loaded filthy hella rich.

I sat next to one in class today and he was buying $570 shirts like it was nothing, and then browsing for sports cars. I saw another one booking a fucking flight to vegas in november.

It's just the exchange students are richer than everyone else. I don't think it's super reflective of asia as a whole.

no

>>8847280
This.

>Do people in japan generally care more about fashion than we do in the US?

>most of them wear street wear clothes

Sending mixed messages here and idk maybe it's because when I hear street wear I think of supreme or obey. Any way good question I'm planning a trip to JP soon and from what I can gather it doesn't seem like fashion over there is bigger than over in the us.

I could be totally wrong though but from what I've seen over on /int/ it seems like a lot of japanese people don't put much thought into what they're going to wear unless it's for a interview or some shit. In fact I've watched a lot of videos about japan since I was young and I have to say I rarely see people who dress so well like in your image. People who dress like that always seem to be kind of hipster, like I always see them pop up in vice magazine or underground bands.

>>8847271

east asians are just into clothes, keeping up appearances i.e. face is an inherent part of their culture

we all know about Western perceptions of masculinity, what's considered gay here isn't as gay there etc

take into account most of their population lives in highly urbanized cities with a greater abundance of stores/inspo and you have a population skewed to dressing on the nicer side

>>8847289
japanese streetwear like junya and engineered garments.

>>8847289
there's a place called harajuku for fashion diehards u fuccing ignorant tourist go there and orgasm

also supreme is like their quiksilver that shit is basic

>>8847296

>This fuckin nigga

Yea you went to Berkeley so you TOTALLY get Asians.

'Inherent part of culture' my ass, if you gots the means it's your inherent right to ball u dumbass nigga

>>8847296
In all of the videos I've seen most of the guys who take fashion seriously over their dress like Kpop stars though.

I watch a variety of videos too and have a few friends who send me stuff, so it's not like I'm watching weabo learn japanese 101 shit all the time btw. But for real though I think it all depends on what part of japan they come from and if they have money or not.

>>8847300
>there's a place called harajuku for fashion diehards u fuccing ignorant tourist go there and orgasm

Alright I've been knew that. Plus in the videos I've seen most of the people were dressing in super flamboyant shit nothing like junya or EG.

>also supreme is like their quiksilver that shit is basic

Well no shit idiot they've been the only place in the world that had a bunch of supreme shops for a while now. In fact they still might be the only place in the world that has so many. Come back to me when you learn something new.

>>8847306

It really is though
Asians are shallow as fuck and care about appearances too much...I should know. It's all rooted in Confucianism (which also explains their high rate of suicide), you should read about it

As for the means, of course the posturing is rooted also in new money consumerism, but it's not that simple and it doesn't explain their affinity for expensive clothing/plastic surgery, both of which are one of the fastest growing markets in China

>>8847330
I thought the kpop ppl were only chinese or koreans, maybe viets and some others.

the japanese students here I always see them with new balance and lotsa of workwear or clothes you see from japanese streetwear threads.

I don't think I've see too many many of them wear loud clothing and I've never seen any girls wear any of that lolita stuff.

>>8847351
Bro you're all over the place right now not all asians are alike.

Seems like you're referring more to chinese than japanese people especially with that new money comment, not unless the japanese economy is booming all of a sudden.

>>8847360

They kinda are man lmao

And Japan's prosperity is still relatively new

>>8847351
everything u learned about asians was from rich kids from ur uni

>>8847360
shut up u fucking idiot
japan was the #1 consumer of luxury goods for quite some time

now its china

kingfaggotcunt

thats ur name

>>8847355
>I thought the kpop ppl were only chinese or koreans, maybe viets and some others.

You might have a point.

>I don't think I've see too many many of them wear loud clothing and I've never seen any girls wear any of that lolita stuff.

When I was saying flamboyant stuff I didn't really mean lolita or any thing like that, I meant like stuff that a autist would think he could pull off... Wish I still had my /fa/ humor folder so I could explain it better to you.

>>8847360
Lol you clearly don't know a drop of what you are talking about
>>8847371
Thank you pig guck it's like that guy really thinks new money exists only in china lmfao

>>8847351

Ok supreme white man I kneel at your universal wisdom

Now post fit

>>8847351

>calling others shallow
>being on fa

Capcha: nigga u gay

>>8847367
In terms of economics though?

Last time I checked japan was doing just as bad as us and china was the one who was churning out new millionaire and billionaires.

>>8847371
You don't want war.

>>8847368

Nah man, as I said I've read about this shit already. What have you done other than strawman? At least I'm parroting information

I'm done flexing though, gn

>>8847393
you're literally an idiot

>>8847300
Lol no they love supreme out there but there are like 5 or 6 stores in Japan compared to 3 in the rest of the world, so it's easier for them to get

>>8847271

>Do people in japan generally care more about fashion than we do in the US?

Well the way you're asking the question seems like it's being posed as "How many people in the United States of America are interested in fashion, and how many people in the entire population of Japan are interested in fashion?"

It sounds like it's being quantified and is a puzzling question to begin with.

To answer, I won't say "care more" but I will state the fact that fashion culture in Japan is much more developed and integrated into the mainstream than it is in the states.

>>8847289

>from what I can gather it doesn't seem like fashion over there is bigger than over in the us.

I have no idea anybody, ever, who has done any research, could come to this conclusion. Fashion in Japan - Tokyo, to be more specific, is absolutely massive.

Yes, the general population is not concerned with fashion in Japan. During rush hour you will see hundreds and hundreds of business / office workers in the same boring grey suit. Why are you bringing them into the picture though? Isn't the whole point to consider the fashion culture of the USA vs. the fashion culture of Japan, and not "How many people exist in these countries that aren't interested in fashion"? Because those people exist everywhere in the world and are a majority.

>>8847271
It's their tradition to look effay as fuck.

Look it up.

>>8847278
Inductive reasoning is the reason you are fairly certain the sun will rise tomorrow.

>>8847411
>Tokyo, to be more specific, is absolutely massive.

I could say the same thing about newyork or paris what point are you trying to make?

>Yes, the general population is not concerned with fashion in Japan

Well there you go you just answered OP's question and sided with me, lol.

>Why are you bringing them into the picture though?
Because op asked about japan as a whole not just tokyo. I'm looking at the big picture while you're focused on one city.

>>8847355
Go to 12:58 of this video it's what I meant by dressing like Kpop stars.

I think the real question is who is traditionally more /fa/?

>>8847428

"Isn't the whole point to consider the fashion culture of the USA vs. the fashion culture of Japan, and not "How many people exist in these countries that aren't interested in fashion"? Because those people exist everywhere in the world and are a majority."

Japan as a whole does have a more developed and prominent fashion culture than the states, but Tokyo on its own is a completely different beast because it has evolved so far beyond the rest of the world. I really don't think it's comparable to New York or Paris and would go as far as to say that Tokyo is the true fashion capital of the world.

>Well there you go you just answered OP's question and sided with me

Way to miss the entire point. The general population of the entire world is not concerned with fashion. So why are we even trying to discuss "which country has the general population that cares more / less?"

OP, I will say that you will notice considerably more fashion conscious people in Japan in general than in the States.

>So why are we even trying to discuss "which country has the general population that cares more / less?"

Idk maybe because that's the thread topic? For some one who believes I'm missing the whole point you have a hard time realizing you missed the whole point of this thread and my comments.

>OP, I will say that you will notice considerably more fashion conscious people in Japan in general than in the States.

You're contradicting your self.

>>8847438

Pilgrim by Rick ofc

>>8847469
Never go full pilgrim.

>>8847428
stop fucking posting, with your logic only china has new money
at least be open if you are going to act like you know something
good acting though

>>8847462

Are you incapable of reading between the lines and directing the flow of discussion to something more worthwhile?

Could you point out where exactly I'm contradicting myself? I feel like I might have blundered or implied something I didn't mean, or something was lost in translation

>>8847438
cosplaying faggots vs real true authentic 100% vs cosplaying faggots
hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>8847479
>stop fucking posting, with your logic only china has new money
Compared to japan though china has way more I was actually waiting for some one to come out and say why they believe japan has just as much new money as china but instead I get your madness.

>at least be open if you are going to act like you know something
I know more than you obviously, whether it's economy fashion or English I just know more than you.

Cry more though.

>>8847492

obviously the native americans just had the lesser technology at the time bruv

>>8847499
I wouldn't say that someone who can't tell the difference between "there" and "their" is exactly knowledgeable of the English language

>>8847500
I smiled a bit

>Are you incapable of reading between the lines and directing the flow of discussion to something more worthwhile?

Wow you're fucking vane I don't care too much for your comments the world doesn't revolve around you and what you have to say. I've purposely chose to ignore half of what you said because I actually wanted to stay on topic. If you don't find OP's thread topic interesting you can always make your own thread.

>Could you point out where exactly I'm contradicting myself?

Here you go.

>OP, I will say that you will notice considerably more fashion conscious people in Japan in general than in the States.

> the general population is not concerned with fashion in Japan.

I already know what you're going to say btw ill wait.

>>8847508
Wise words said by some one who doesn't use periods.

Also if that comment I replied to was yours thank you for cleaning up your act for me.

I did my exhange year at uni in kyoto and most of the people were well dressed, but looked very laid back and like they didn't put too much effort into clothing. Compared to western fashion it was less flashy and more casual/neat. Idk how much they care about actual fashion, I think they look good just because their aesthetical preferences generally are more clean/pure/natural.

>>8847526

Vain*. It's your choice to consider what I have to say or not, but I will tell you that I have had great interest in Japanese fashion for quite some time now and have even made a trip for the sole purpose of experiencing the fashion culture there. So I think it's safe to say that I have a broader understanding of the topic.

Do you really want to sit here and calculate the population of the States and Japan, whip out numbers, and get into that nonsense? OP probably posed his question with little thought or expectation but that doesn't mean that the related discussion has to be as such. This isn't about "Agreeing or disagreeing with OP", this is about making something out of a topic that was brought up.

Read those two phrases that you believe are "contradictions". Read them over again until you understand that those assertions are not mutually exclusive. They can, and are, both true at the same time.

The general population in Japan is not concerned with fashion. BUT considering those who ARE concerned with fashion, Japan does have a more vibrant fashion culture that is quite explicit, you will, without a doubt, see more fashion conscious people there in general than in the States. The general population in the States is not concerned with fashion. You will see those who are concerned, probably in bigger cities like LA or NYC, but probably not as many explicitly unique and stated people in Japan, Tokyo, and Omotesando to be specific.

I think if you abandoned the preoccupation of your 4chan persona this could be more fruitful, I can sense alot of things being held back because of your sense of "self" on here rather than being completely Anonymous. Your attitude also comes off as self important because you are capable of making up a cute nickname for yourself on /fa/.

But let's not get off track here. You can stop waiting and make your response.

Most Japanese are very conformist so they try to be as normcore as possible
top 10% are like the people you see in magazines
bottom 10% are fucking atrocious

but Japan is very conformist it is very very very VERY radically and offensively normcore for the most part

holy fuck. all this orientalistic imperialism "culture" explanations. it's like being in my jap classes again.

p sure the number one reason that japanese are "so fashionable" is that the youth have no other real outlet for their income/creativity. uni graduation jobs are declining, same with lucrative positions at big companies. and housing is soooooo fucking expensive that they can't sink their pay checks into that. so there's a lot of japanese youth that have large amounts of disposiable income but have no where to put it. that's pretty much the number one reason.
if you're expanation is "that japanese culture is one of respect and collectavism" 80% sure your argument is orientalistic dribble.

>So I think it's safe to say that I have a broader understanding of the topic.

I never doubted you for a second.

Also I like how you gave your self up with that first comment about my spelling bait.

>Do you really want to sit here and calculate the population of the States and Japan, whip out numbers, and get into that nonsense?

Why not it would be staying on topic and a lot more interesting then what you had in mind. Crunching numbers and then doing a comparison with the results would be out of the ordinary for this board though but still more interesting.

> OP probably posed his question with little thought or expectation but that doesn't mean that the related discussion has to be as such.

Will never know that since OP has left the thread now. It's kind of weird that you're speaking for him too didn't think he needed a mouth piece.

>This isn't about "Agreeing or disagreeing with OP", this is about making something out of a topic that was brought up.

That's your opinion though.

>The general population in Japan is not concerned with fashion.

Yeah you said this already.

> BUT considering those who ARE concerned with fashion,

Oh boy here we go listen I don't think you're catching the hint I've heard all of this before you don't have to repeat your self. If you want to turn this thread into a echo chamber for pleasure go a head but I wont be around to read any more.

>Your attitude also comes off as self important
Funny you should say that since you're the one attempting to hi jack a thread.

>because you are capable of making up a cute nickname for yourself on /fa/
You angry?

>wants to have a decent conversation
>insists on insulting me

>But let's not get off track here. You can stop waiting and make your response.
>mfw you're not even on the track any more

>>8847615
>making up fake statistics
>wanting people to take you seriously

>>8847278
>wanting objective logicboi kantian crap
>browsing /fa/
lol

>>8847616

Congratulations, with this final post you've managed to fully drift off, spouting tu quoques and ad hominems, with absolutely nothing to say on Japan or Fashion.

Whatever, you didn't seem like a person worth conversing with anyways. Stay stupid.

>>8847650
>Congratulations, with this final post
I hope this is you self projecting since you're so immature and a broken record at that.

>you've managed to fully drift off
I tried to stay on topic and in fact I even went as far as to try to keep you on topic. But you were begging for my attention for your drama, so you you got it.

>spouting tu quoques and ad hominems, with absolutely nothing to say on Japan or Fashion.
How could I possibly say any thing when you're attempting to dominate this thread?

Hell how can any one get a word in with you without you insulting them because they don't agree with your opinions? You must be insufferable to be around if you act like this irl, but shit explains why you're on /fa/ bothering me right now.

>Whatever
should have been whatever.

>you didn't seem like a person worth conversing with anyways
You weren't saying that before lel.

>Stay stupid.
How could you expect any one to take you seriously now when you've decided to stoop so low out of frustration?

>inb4 he comes back and calls me a faggot or worse a dookie head

>>8847625
it's not fake >_>
since the lost decades the there's been in an increase in dispatch work, life time positions are thing of the past, it's generally harder to get a company job.
if you're intrested you should read "Bad Youth: Juvenile Delinquency and the Politics of Everyday Life in Modern Japan", also "HOW DO HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES IN JAPAN
COMPETE FOR REGULAR, FULL-TIME JOBS?", also "Restructuring Youth: Recent Problems of Japanese Youth and its Contextual Origin" (from the journal of youth studies) to start; they'll give you a good idea.

The point is, is that most if not all of these "Why are nips so fashionable" just end up being orientalistic horseshit discussions of "Japanese culture".

>>8847684

Skimmed, noted, but not read.

Have a nice evening, looking forward to more fruitful phrase by phrase psychoanalysis of posts.

>>8847711
>Skimmed, noted, but not read.
Sick burn

>Have a nice evening, looking forward to more fruitful phrase by phrase psychoanalysis of posts.
You just keep on hurling insults at me, I thought you were done here?

>>8847701
>it's not fake >_>
So much cringe in one comment.

>>8847719
sorry I'm not internet cool ;__;

>>8847725
What's that have to do with any thing?

>>8847734
assumed you were ragging on me for using emos (I unironically like to use them).
Anyway all the info is there, if you cared to read them you'll get an idea. A large chuck of Japanese acadeamia is devoted to the youth issues in Japan (especially important are the articles that avoid the pitfalls of orientalism).

>>8847734
u got fucking rekt u mong, step down

>>8847734
Drop your trip, you got nothing of value to share.

>>8847753
That's nice but I'm not really interested in what you have to say.

>>8847757
Ironic shit posting is still shit posting.

>>8847759
>nothing of value to share
>shares nothing of value to the thread

>>8847772
>>shares nothing of value to the thread
Thats why i aint tripping. Are you really that dense ?

>>8847772
fairo. it was just a rebuttle to you claiming my statements were fake.

>>8847776
>Are you really that dense ?
What would I be dense about?

>>8847778
But the burden of truth doesn't lay on my shoulders it lays on yours.

And even if it were true wouldn't negate the fact that it's hard to take any thing you say seriously.

>>8847786
worst trip ever

filtered.

>>8847786
what are you on about? legit the "truth" is in those articles I provided. just because you can't be bothered to read it... and it's not in my words, it's in the actual words of the scholars.
I have legit no idea what the issue is anymore

>>8847810
You say filtered but are you really filtering me when you replied twice?

Japanese people of high school and college age tend to go crazy with fashion because they know it's the time in their life when they're going to be able to. After their education they're going to be adopted into a salaryman culture and wear suits all the time.

>>8847812
Oh yeah so you did just looked like one big mess to me what part of the articles do your statistics come from though?

And link me to it.

>>8847812
>>8847844
you are actually severely autistic

this threads fucking boring you got one faggot who thinks he knows it all and another faggot whowont quit telling the other faggot to shut up

>>8847848
Nah you are. We aren't the same people :)

>ITT: Slack-jawed white teenager who looks out of his window and sees nothing but cornfields every morning thinks he knows everything about a country and a culture he has never even learned about or visited.

ITT: Same fag who think he knows it all tries to tell every one they're wrong and thinks he should be the center of attention

>>8847870
>>8847860

Shots fired!

>>8847870

>implying same poster

I agree with him though, every thread about 'chinks' devolves into suburban teenagers thinking their limited experience can be projected into a perfect, one-size-fits-all arr rook same explanation onto billions of people who again each have their own unique national cultures, never mind the fact even within broader cultures it shouldn't need to be said that individuality exists.

It's like saying that ALL Americans dress the way they do in cargo shorts, Wal-Mart sneakers and oversized XXXL t shirts and claiming it's because they're lazy, fat, stupid and would prefer to spend their money on hamburgers and guns to protect themselves from Tyrese and Jose.

But then again maybe I'm expecting too much from /fa/

>>8847870
How can some one possibly be worse than a trip

fag jesus fucking hell kek.

>>8847904
Who are you referring to?

If it's me it's obvious you haven't been on here for long.

>>8847914

Not you in particular, just every single thread that discusses Asians ends up turning into a shitfest where nobody wins.

>>8847914
Fuck off already.
You are the newfaggotry that is killing /fa/.

>>8847920
Stop talking like you've been here long enough to know any thing dude it's embarrassing.

You're really what's wrong with /fa/ at the moment.

>>8847924
he's not new though hes a old trip

>>8847930
come over to infinity then this place is garbage

>>8847930

I've been on /fa/ since 2010 when HY, OCBD's, raw jeans and CDB were the /fa/ uniform, why don't you whip your 4chan-epenis out on the table and we can see whose is longer?

You're a joke, drop your trip and pick up a book.

>>8847933
>he's not new though hes a old trip
then hes the worst old trip i've ever seen

>>8847933
>come over to infinity
Whats that? And /fa/ isn't all that bad it's only a small few new people who pretend to run the place are running it.

Reminds me of that nignog thread where mods where deleting my comments, it's disgusting.

>>8847930

literally worse than Trunks and as bad as pigfuck

>>8847940
I've been here before 2010 and I doubt you been here for as long as you say and even so that would still make you new compared to me lol.

The fact that you even said you've been here since 2010 just shows how shitty your life must be haha.

>>8847941
Only because you're new.

>>8847947
Aww QQ I'm worse than those guys because I called you out on your bullshit ;_;

>inb4 they reply with a actual in depth response

>>8847951
post a fit please

>>8847951

>The fact that you even said you've been here since 2010 just shows how shitty your life must be haha.

>I've been here before 2010

Do you think before you type?

>>8847957
I'm good maybe later kind of busy.

>>8847959
I sure do.

The fact that you've been here since 2010 clearly admitted to not knowing who I am and acts like a child when some one calls you out on a message board only proves my point. Thanks for taking the bait btw.

>this thread

STOP IT STOP IT YOU'LL ALL A BUNCH OF LOSERS!

>>8847955

>Called out

What the fuck are talking about? You've been making unsubstantiated claims you've been passing off as objective truth as exclusively purveyed by you and when a couple of people tell you to read up a bit before you spout your shit you intentionally disregard literally everything that's been presented to counter your bullshit so you can keep on pretending you're right, get hyper-defensive and pull the "I'm an oldfag" card and calling anyone who disagrees with you a newfag.

If anything you're the one who's been called out.

Why don't you pass me one of those straws you're grasping so I can drink your tears?

>>8847966

>I-I was only pretending to be retarded, r-respect me I've been on the fashion board of a Mongolian claymation bulletin for longer than you

>>8847971
I never passed off any thing as truth.

>>If anything you're the one who's been called out.

I like how you repeat every thing I say like a child, for some one whose been here since 2010 you sure are mature :^)

>Why don't you pass me one of those straws you're grasping so I can drink your tears?
>says the person who started calling me names when he couldn't get his way

You do realize you've admitting defeat already right?

>>8847947
no one can be worse than those two

>>8847973
It really is obvious that you're same fagging right now.

>>8847973
Post fit fuck boi

>>We have a lot of japanese students studying at my university for some reason.

They're trying to maybe get away from their strick life back at home probably.

>>8847959
>falling for his ruse

He really is just toying with your emotions at this point but why the hell am i getting involved now when this threads about japan.

>>8847980

>I know more than you obviously, whether it's economy fashion or English I just know more than you.

>Well no shit idiot they've been the only place in the world that had a bunch of supreme shops for a while now. In fact they still might be the only place in the world that has so many. Come back to me when you learn something new.

Might wanna get that short term memory loss sorted out

>you're new you're new you're new you're new you're new you're new you're new you're new

>not namecalling
>not an example of the shit you're trying to deride
>not an obvious grasping of straws

Keep trying, even one monkey on a keyboard will eventually write something of value :^)

>>8847980
>being here since 2010 some how makes some one mature

Maybe he's just a child dude you should ease up. I was on /fa/ when I was pretty young maybe he's still in middle school or something, would explain a lot.

>Might wanna get that short term memory loss sorted out
Why don't you elaborate instead of being so vague.

>Keep trying, even one monkey on a keyboard will eventually write something of value :^)
Keep coming at me with all those lame dad quotes told you I won.

>>8847998
Nah.

>>8847997
Just call him a idiot and move on with your life dude it's over.

What are you seriously even fighting for at this point?

>>8848010
It's not a fight though notice how the only person here who has thrown blows is him.

If it were a fight I'd have already ended it, I'm just bored.

>>8848013
>only person that has thrown blows is him

What are you talking about you did the same thing.

>>8848021
If you're talking about me hurling insults his way they were jokes, I actually didn't think he was taking this all too heart until he started calling me mean words :(

It's kind of pathetic.

>>8847997
Pig fuck please go.

Japanese can weat anything and look fashionable.

They have really good style, this can be seen in their buildings, films, music , society, even porn.

8848072

shut up faggot.

It's not really that complicated

Japan came out of World War two quite poorly but managed to (along with germany) come out as a really successful "new capitalist nation", number one over America to boot.

So yeah, it fostered a culture of luxury goods. It had the economy to facilitate those kind of ventures - luxury consumption. Nurturing a culture for luxury goods,

To say nothing of the arts movement and Japanese pioneers in the field of fashion from the 1920s, especially during the 1960s-70s (period where japan was very much pivotal to international form).

In hindesight, there are a lot of factors stemming from as far back as the 1860s which paved the road to japan's current relationship with the fashion industry.
to be honest even that's it's kind of superfluous.

To break it down into two points:
1) historically a lot of income
2) a strong fine arts movement

>>8848098
I don't think you answered OP's question at all.

>>8848107
Why are you talking to me?

>>8847966
>implying anyone gives a fuck about who you are

the fact that this thread turned into a debate by two or three autists is funny af
i cant stop laffin

>>8848107
If they care more about fashion a reason could be because they come from an environment which has been heavily subjected to luxury consumption (including fashion goods).

>>8848131
no you can't because you are not "laff" ing

The exchange kids at my school only wear CDG Play and Supreme :/

>>8848156
It's because their grandfathers and luxury goods :^)

>>8848164
Efficacious advertising campaigns and pop culture awareness.
CDG play as cheaper CDG.

>>8848186
Yeah I think it's because they want to show off the brand.

IDK some Chinese exchange kids my school dress very nicely but a lot just buy random "wacky" expensive clothes (like those shoes with studs or spikes or w/e).

>>8848186
are you saying it's not a luxury?

>>8848196
Maybe. If it's for some sort of ostentatious branding then it might be because Supreme and CDG Play have succeeded in intercepting pop culture and presented themselves as some sort of subversive luxury product, to young people.
Or CDG just by association, Pagowski's Hearts aside.

>>8848211
Not as much, $300 jersey hoodies aren't a luxury in so far as what they are made of or feel like, it's definitely more of a social currency or design affiliation kind of thing.
But I think, by definition, anything that successfully flips jersey hoodies for upwards of $300 is a luxury, as a rule.

>>8847271
Most Japanese people wear uniqlo. It's the number one fashion brand in Japan in terms of sales and profit.

Th average jap is 100% pleb

Due to the ease of accessibility of the fashion world in Japan(magazines at every corner store, a large variety of brands with physical stores and inspo from a densely populated city) it is easy to start being effay-conscious in Japan as opposed to in America leading to a higher number of effay individuals.

Out of these individuals, 90% are absolute trash who dress like attention-whores in god-awful outfits that don't reflect who they are in a bid to get street-styled or to pull men or to look effay. Then there's the 0.1% of the population that has mastered the art of looking good but not looking out of place to their friends with an outfit that is both tasteful and interesting.

I am of course writing this from a western perspective typically requiring a toned-down outfit(so as not to seem like a faggot) and authenticity(so as not to seem like a cosplaying faggot)

>>8848232
But isn't unquilo immensely popular internationally?
#1 domestic sales?

>Out of these individuals, 90% are absolute trash who dress like attention-whores in god-awful outfits that don't reflect who they are in a bid to get street-styled or to pull men or to look effay. Then there's the 0.1% of the population that has mastered the art of looking good but not looking out of place to their friends with an outfit that is both tasteful and interesting.
You can't make any of these assertions.

Cosplayers would kick your ass.

I'd say as populations go they're doing pretty fucking well if they all wear uniqlo. half of fa wears uniqlo too.

i don't even want to think about what the most popular brand in england would be.

>>8848245
Probably Topman or H&M

As someone that has never worn or handled uniqlo in their life I imagine it to be the same as H&M, or Zara or Topman or any fast fashion establishment, expect a exoticised version for the all too ambitious gaijin. I really don't know though but I'm also uninterested.

the thing that complicates all this, for me, is that the japanese have been responsible for some really awesome brands. the difference in style between heritage in Japan and heritage in the US is huge -- with only a couple exceptions, Japan just does it better, and is more adventurous with the styling.

Part of that is down to the way Japanese people see heritage as a variety of steetwear, whereas a large US market has developed a taste for a totally insular style called "workwear", which doesn't lend itself at all to experimentation.

But it does make me wonder to what extent Japanese people may just be more interested in fashion. In a country with less racial diversity than the United States (not the bogus 98.5% homogeneity statistic which actually reflects citizenship rather than ethnicity, but nonetheless their diversity can't quite compare to the US) might there be a greater pressure to differentiate yourself via clothing? Or could it just be because Japan is much more urban? Americans can buy "workwear" with the belief that they're going to someday wear it to their dad's log cabin in the woods, whereas Japanese people for the most part are going to be wearing it around town. To some extent they have to ditch any pretence of authenticity, and use fashion as something more than a statement of rustic identity.

And of course, there's the all-important question of whether Japanese trends just seem cool to us because they're alien to our culture and it's harder to evaluate them; our gut reaction is that because they're breaking OUR rules, they look like they just don't give a fuck. But of course it's a false perception, and many of them are probably quite worried about how their fits conform to various trends that we aren't quite aware of.

well, idk. but regardless of whether they're legitimately effay, taking inspiration from fashion in different cultures will help make YOU more effay

>>8848242
Uniqlo's main sales are from their local market and I'd wager it's Japan's #1 in domestic sales(no source though).


My assumptions are from a western perspective. Even if you posted a typical Harajuku kid on a "fashion-forward" website like Sufu, they'd get flamed for being too outlandish. It's different in Japan where people are able to recognise the fact that someone can wear something purely for aesthetics even if it's the most impractical outfit ever and they are able to separate the person from the outfit.

>>8848250
Who are you talking to? You hang out in nigger threads don't you?

>>8848248
Pleb detected. Stop commenting on things you have no knowledge of.

>>8848259
>that insecurity

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

>>8848250
>tfw no qt gf to talk fashion with
Are you a girl by any chance?

This thread is still going off topic?

You all o realize this isn't a japanese inspo thread or any thing right?

>>8848257
sometimes, but I'm probably not who you're thinking of

>>8848250
I would shudder to think that a whole country totalling over 100million people, that has such a grand well documented history would need to fall back on clothing to differentiate one another.

I think urban has to do with something, in regards to commercial density and media circulation.
The conversation on authenticity and rustic identity leads no where.

There is definitely a fetish quality inherited by the West particularly, and i think something Soloman picked up with "orientalism" . There's a lot of Issey's work/struggle, Rei's continued exasperation and Yohji's difficulty to communicate motivation to engage the topic as content which exists that can shed light on the issue (specifically their relationship with Paris). The opposite is also true with that British man who had stayed in Japan and made really interesting clothing in Japan.

I don't think coolness is necessarily attributed to difficulty. Maybe rebellion, who knows.

>>8848268
imagine anyone outside this board seeing that post

>man
>saying "I wish there were women I could talk to about fashion"
>"I wish women cared about fashion as much as men do"

I agree with you, but it's just funny to me, for some reason. philistines would definitely laugh at you

>>8848256
>local market
yeah... But they have branches internationally.
>no source though
Okay, so it's all bullshit. I'm okay with that.

Who cares about Sufu, Sufu is pretty insular and shitty.

> It's different in Japan
It's different for people who have different perspectives.

I think there would still be a Japanese person that would ask "why are you spending so much effort on cloth?"
As you would find an American to say "clothing is silly, why are you obsessed?"
I think the outfit is very much part of the person, or at least parts of person are found in the outfit like parts of the outfit are found in the person.

It's like Symbiote.

>>8848279
man if you really think that you can sufficiently analyze fashion in japan by looking at a succession of designers and their ideas, then you've lost touch with reality, where most people don't care about designers or don't get a lot out of them

and throwing out completely any consideration of rural self-identification will make it nearly impossible to understand why workwear takes the form it does in the United States.

>>8848291
Idk you just type kind of feminine it's cute.

>>8848317
that's the strangest thing anyone has ever said about me

t-thank you anon

>>8848313
Not wholly. But it's the content I chose to digest and helped me accquire insight.

I've read a number of essays and books on the topic too, mainly about disparaging western perception of Japan but that's a different topic.
Since we're on a fashion board I want to make it vaguely fashion related.
Furthermore I don't care if people don't recognise or care for designer works, I do, and like it or not they do produce content which is directly related to the conversation.

I didn't engage your idea of workwear, or streetwear, or heritage.
because it's ridiculous and ultimately rooted in some sort of authenticity affliction.
"who loomed the first pair of raws?"
"who owns all the loop wheel loomed sweater?"
"does he actually go duck hunting in that hunting jacket?"
"are those sport jacket buttons even bison horn?"
"can it be streetwear without new balances?"
who cares.

>>8848324
Np I meant it ;)

>>8847377

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXsKy27cvk

>>8848296
http://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/17bkew/japanese_streetwear_a_basis/

This rebbit article has a good explanation on how the Japanese are able to divorce aesthetics from persona

http://www.fastretailing.com/eng/ir/financial/summary.html

This article shows a sample of Uniqlo's financials. Their Japanese sales are more profitable than sales from all their international markets combined. Their local market actually dictates most of what they design and sell and the international segment conforms around it.

You are also kidding yourself if you don't think uniqlo isn't at least among the top 5 largest/most profitable clothing brands in Japan. The founder is the richest man in Japan! It's not Undercover, it's not Anrealage, it's not <insert obscure Jap brand>

I used sufu as an example of how an average western person would react to a typical harajuku outfit. If a fashion-forward place like sufu think's it's outlandish and hilarious, what would the average mid-western hick think?

>>8848327
well you didn't understand my argument, then. because I don't give a shit about authenticity either, and I also think it's a slippery term. My point assumes only that people who buy clothing think about it.

>>8848361
>>8848361
The reddit article is nifty, but also perplexing.

How the 'formative stages' are described is more or less similar to anyones who has been involved in primary, secondary and tertiary education.
It's again... also rooted in authenticity and the fulfillment of arbitrary yet persisted to be necessary criteria (those involved in being 'punk').
These are all just really broad and offensive generalisations... kind of fetishing japan but all of these things resonate with my local (western) environment and upbringing and to what I have been informed on.

But I see where the 'SuperFlatness' idea is coming from, and I don't disagree with it in the slightest, a lot of Yohji's work is dealing with that surge of consumption that he claims has reworked Japanese culture so everything is commercial and consumable.

It's funny because
> I thought Japan was conservative?
Is often based in exotic fetishism, and really just xenophobic bullshit.'

I think that some people gravitate to certain styles and others gravitate to another says something about the person.
Like when you see those Japanese dudes looking like top dog greasers with the huge styled elfro's.
or those men that were nothing but victorian tailored suiting.
They're different for a reason.

>kidding yourself if you don't think uniqlo isn't at least among the top 5 largest/most profitable clothing brands in Japan.
I didn't say it wasn't...
You said it was the "number one fashion brand in Japan in terms of sales and profit."
and then...
"it's Japan's #1 in domestic sales(no source though)."
Although I'm impressed with this website, I'll remind you that I have zero interest in the topic.

>Sufu as an example of how an average western person
>fashion-forward place like sufu
>average mid-western hick
hokay

>>8848403
But your statements bring it up multiple times... and then cruxes the basis of wearability on authenticity...

>>8848403
>point assumes only that people who buy clothing think about it.
That's a very astute point. but I'm going to bed.

>>8847271
No - they just wear uniqlo like its nothing more often

>>8848435
>But your statements bring it up multiple times... and then cruxes the basis of wearability on authenticity...

What? All I'm saying is that for Americans, there is something of a pretence of authenticity that lends a perceived validity to dressing in a specific way. My point is that workwear, specifically, is more tied to a kind of identity that is seen as realistic and achievable, because an American might "believe" that "someday" they'll wear it to some log cabin, or something. It's about imagined authenticity, not real authenticity. I don't know why you can't see that the two things are different.

In no way do I mean to say that Japanese people are completely uncaring about identity, but necessarily that identity will take a different form, especially in terms of geography. There just isn't as much open, untamed land in Japan. And so it's harder to believe unironically in the fantasies of exploration and connection-with-the-land that form the basis of the imagined rustic identity.

Ultimately, the whole thing is a kind of fantasy, that's what I'm saying. But it's one that Americans are more likely yo believe in sincerely. And that's why they more often approach "workwear" from a perspective of self-identification, rather than for its value as pure fashion.

Of course my argument will still have a bunch of holes in it, but at least criticize me for something I actually said!

>tfw every asian i met was a xenophobic twat

They tend to be richer, so they can afford better clothes. I know that if I was loaded I'd cop arcteryx and outlier out the ass, but alas I am poor.

Most people would dress well I fthey had money. Western culture just admires prep more than street (hence the frat/prep attempts by rich white bois)

>>8848435
I think you're missing my main point with regards to uniqlo ie the average jap guy doesn't look like the photo in OP's post. They just look like someone dressed in a skinnier version of the gap.

And my other point was that the harajuku kid's style is an outlier in terms of dressing in Japanese society BUT he doesn't look out of place or too awkward IN JAPAN as the Japanese are able to appreciate the fact that it's just 100% aesthetics and that the kid just likes fashion. They probably wouldn't call him out for dressing like a cowboy-space-lumberjack and this aspect of separating the individual from the outfit allows the japanese to try out new and creative outfits that western fashionistas would never have the balls to try. Those who do typically get called out for being a try-hard cunt/tumblr faggot since it's quite evident that their style doesn't reflect who they are or that their style may be too extreme for western tastes.

That's why even in a fashion forum like Sufu where you'd expect outfits more outlandish than the western norm, you still get people being called out for being "too out there" and "trying too hard" ie symptomatic of Westerners being unable to separate the outfit from the individual. Now if a place like Sufu thinks that harajuku kid looks ridiculous, how do you think he'd be perceived by an even more conservative mid-western american in real life?

Japan and E/SE Asia in general has more varied tastes than the west in some aspects, like fashion and food. Pic related, a fraction of available Kit Kat flavors in Japan.

>>8848597
Further adding to my point.....

Take this fit from sufu for example. This kid spends a lot of time on tumblr consuming pictures of Japanese punk fashion(he isn't one though). While this outfit would be acceptable in Japan and no one might even call him out on it, to our western tastes he looks like some suburban kid playing punk dress-up. Even Sufu told him he looked like he was cosplaying and that he should tone it down. The guy lives in California but dresses up like some harajuku kid all the while forgetting he doesn't live in tokyo. He looks ridiculous both on the internet(as perceived by a Western audience) and in real life. Questioning him on his punk way of life would out him as being a phony making him look even more ridiculous and try-hard as opposed to in Japan where most people would clearly identify he is just playing at fashion and no one would expect him to have any actual hardcore punk beliefs

>>8847271

if you actually went to japan most of the guys would be wearing black suits every day. Also, /fa/ thinks any asian guy in sweatpants and a t shirt is the heighth of fashion, so how can you even tell if theyre trying or not?

Someone may have already posted this but they strongly believe in the Price/Performance ratio from higher end clothes. Hypebeast or complex has a sort of interesting series on the differences between JP/US shopping experiences.

>>8848629

I think this looks decent actually

>>8848361

yeah, uniqlo has like 200+ stores just in japan. It's like the Gap there.

>>8848652
In hindsight this might not be the best example as sufu was mainly hating on him for being a tumblr kid but the point I was trying to get across still stands

>>8847450
>Tokyo is the true fashion capital of the world

Your weeaboo is showing.

>>8848629
>>8848652
>>8848665
kid looks bad because he has these pieces and none of them are coherent, looks like he just bought a bunch of jap brands he saw online and put up a fit on tumblr. looks super punchable too.

>>8847300
U need to calm down gaijen

>>8847278
>lol look at me i'm a scientist because I adhere by rules and that means that without too much doubt my conclusions are objective
get out of the fucking 19th century bitch

>>8847393
>You don't want war.

oh no pls ur scaring us

They were probably Chinese exchange students. The one child policy has left a generation of "little princes."

>>8848494
I woke up and I need to go but I'll quickly green text things and let you work them out for yourself

> for Americans... authenticity
>racisim

>workwear, specifically, is more tied to a kind of identity that is seen as realistic and achievable
>it is historically something men and women would be seen wearing

>workwear, specifically, is more tied to a kind of identity that is seen as realistic and achievable
>t's about imagined authenticity, not real authenticity.

...Okay I'm just going to stop and eat my yoghurt,, you're straw manning hard and beyond that it's really just some sort of insecure drivel you backpedaling on.

Wait okay, no, this is too funny
>There just isn't as much open, untamed land in Japan.
> exploration and connection-with-the-land that form the basis of the imagined rustic identity.

>Americans are more likely yo believe in sincerely

Did you write this whole thing in ernest? Please use your time more wisely.

>more often approach "workwear" from a perspective of self-identification, rather than for its value as pure fashion
> at least criticize me for something I actually said!
Not only did I directly enegage your shitty argument several times (to my expense) but I also kindly perforated it for you and explained why it's worth exactly no one times to consider these things.

>average jap guy doesn't look like the photo in OP's post.
> 100% aesthetics and that the kid just likes fashion.
>called out for being a try-hard cunt/tumblr faggot
>their style doesn't reflect who they are or that their style may be too extreme for western tastes.
>Sufu where you'd expect outfits more outlandish than the western norm
> "too out there" and "trying too hard" ie symptomatic of Westerners being unable to separate the outfit from the individual
>a place like Sufu
>even more conservative mid-western american in real life?

> While this outfit would be acceptable in Japan and no one might even call him out on it,
...

>>8848629
>guy lives in California but dresses up like some harajuku kid all the while forgetting he doesn't live in tokyo.
Actually, fuck it.
Pretend I green texted everything you said

SHIGGY
DIGGY
M8

I'd also like to add that I wore sruli recht crab jackets and rick t-shirts out to getting drank at house parties in the burbs when I lived out there.
Shit was rad.

>>8849979
you quote two different people but only link one post.

Also, you have a real talent for misreadings. I'll stop here and let other people decide whether you demolished my posts as thoroughly as you think you did.

>>8849979
ALL YOU DO IS QUOTE MY FUCKING POSTS INSTEAD OF TELLING ME WHY YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM.

FUCK YOU!

It's liike dealing with a retard

>>8850454
alright, I couldn't resist giving one piece of evidence for my claim that you're great at misreadings

you posted:
>workwear, specifically, is more tied to a kind of identity that is seen as realistic and achievable
>it is historically something men and women would be seen wearing

you conflate
>is seen as realistic and achievable
with
>is realistic and achievable

but "seen as" is an inconvenient phrase, so you skim over it. I don't know who thinks "x is seen as y" means "x is y", especially when the implied people doing the seeing are not historians, or academics of any kind, but consumers of an aesthetic that I then describe as "fantasy". Do you put any serious thought into your posts?

Other parts of your post are, imo, completely incomprehensible. I don't know what you mean when you say I'm "backpedaling" on "insecure drivel". Wherefore backpedaling? Wherefore insecure? I haven't taken back one thing I've said.

>>8850454
I can't tell. Everyone is anonymous.
The sentiment persists, it's something I can't overcome, or care to give much thought.

>>8850523
You're reiterating the same thing and ignoring what I've answered with.
Sorry but "it's your fault you're misunderstanding me"
then repeating again in the exact same fashion and then again replying with "It's your fault..." is not conducive.

Hvaing said that, I don't know what the point of your discussion is...
to pinpoint the style locus of the elusive "average japanese person" compared to that of the "mid-western american".
Maybe interesting for you but completely pointless for me.

Ask yourself what the point is.

I don't care to demolish peoples posts - it's just racist drivel in the end, you've been sitting on the wreckage from the outset.

>>8850554
?
The only thing you green texted that I didn't paraphrase from an anon is
>it is historically something men and women would be seen wearing

The order of my green texting has little sense, like your post.

When does the topic come back to:
"Do people in japan generally care more about fashion than we do in the US?"
In a non-racist setting.

You're presuming I gave any thought to the phrase in the first place. I quite simply read 'realisitic and achievable' in relation to clothing and decided it was hilarious.
That's all there was to my green texting.

It's backpedaling ebcause you keep reasserting statements after modifying them with not sense of directon.
And it's insecure drivel because it makes refutable claims on the "average x" and just broadly generalises huge populations, while making sure to maintain a racist tone.

Sorry, not insecure drivel but racist drivel (or again, insecure drivel).

>>8850454
This guy is not retarded, but he lacks a certain empathy that is essential to forming good readings; that is, to enter into reading a post with a desire to find out what the person is saying, in the most comprehensible form. Only once you have given proper attention to the various details and made sure that you have done your best to replicate in your own mind the other person's argument as they understand it, only then can you begin to tear that argument apart. This is especially true of arguments about culture because language is a slippery medium wherein you have a considerable degree of freedom in interpreting words, and you can attempt from the start to sabotage your own understanding of an argument just by fudging the words a bit. Of course, this will seldom convince anyone who is not already wanting to come to your conclusion.

>>8850634
oops, I quoted the wrong post. meant to quote>>8850523

>>8849300

"Being the capital of fashion isn’t about who has the boutiques or the runway shows or the fashion magazines, although Tokyo has plenty of those. To be the true capital of fashion, fashion must dominate everything. It must be the passion of the masses and the connoisseurs. It must be the primary mode of expression beyond art, film, music. It must be a place where fashion is treated like a necessity, not a luxury… It’s the only city in the world where creating fashion is treated as an intellectual pastime. Ask who is the greatest living artist in Tokyo and a surprising number of people won’t name a writer or painter; they’ll name Rei Kawakubo. Or Junya Watanabe." - Amy Spindler

It depends on what your idea of a "fashion capital" is but for the most part what she says is true and I agree. I don't think any other city in the world has as developed of a fashion culture than Tokyo, in all aspects ranging from designers, consumers, press, social / artistic perception / regard of / for fashion, etc.

I also remember reading an opinion piece from fashionsnap which pretty much said that no other place in the world has developed so much that there are very distinct separations in style depending on the neighborhood / district. I think Tokyo is like fashion on crack, simply insane.

>>8850634
> desire to find out what the person is saying, in the most comprehensible form.
This
Totally
AKA "anon doesn't give a shit about the discussion"

>>8847860
>you: nappy haired nigger who looks out of his window and sees nothing but drug deals and police presence every morning thinks he knows everything about white society which he cannot afford to get into

Fucking drain on society

>>8850554

Just dropping by this thread and reading through it, I lost you 3-4 posts in, what point are you even trying to make?

>>8850634

Good post, could apply to posters in general everywhere

>sees 170 comments
>hoping for actual discussion on Japanese fashion
>nope, just a bunch of weebs flaming eachother

i am disappoint.

>You will never be a Japanese high school delinquent

Why bother living?

>>8850677
>You will never be a Japanese Drill Sergeant who maintains a constant perturbed attitude when examining his haphazard underlings.

>>8850591
I'm only trying to bring out what I perceive to be the differences in the markets for one particular type of clothing in the US and in Japan, and remarking on why there might be a difference because of how history and geography are imagined and how that relates to clothing. That's racist? You have a pretty loose definition of racism, and I say that as someone who has studied a good deal of postcolonial writing.

your unselfcritical misanthropy, liberally and indiscriminately applied, is not conducive to good conversation. but inasmuch as trying to find more precise ways of formulating what were my rough initial impressions (which I concluded by saying "I don't know", because I never claimed to have the answer to OP's question) is "backpedaling", I should at least admit that forcing me to backpedal was a good thing.

lastly: admitting that you hardly read my post before greentexting it -- what kind of defence is that? l m a o

>>8850728
Forget this guy m8.

In a thread specifically dedicated to discussing why the Japanese care more about fashion than Americans,talking about the subject matter is apparently racist >.<

He just threw in the racism card to make up for the fact that he lacks a basic level of reading comprehension. He obviously cared enough to respond to the arguments. smh at this nigga fronting that he wasn't interested in the subject matter, when in fact......he's just a retard

>>8850728
Collect the historical and geographic references in your post, and make a single comment regarding them in a meaningful way. Don't make them up.

It's racist because you produce pretenses on oriental behaviour, as enacted by a typical western bigot and then take it further by glorifying the position of American's as the only ones who can truly, authentically wear clothing.

Don't even reply to that just do the first thing.

>your unselfcritical misanthropy, liberally and indiscriminately
Awesome

>precise ways of formulating what were my rough initial impressions
>Americans, there is something of a pretence of authenticity that lends a perceived validity to dressing in a specific way
Spare me.

>forcing me to backpedal was a good thing.
I'm glad you realised.

Defence? Don't kid yourself, I have nothing to defend from, I don't agree and won't ever agree on the stages you've produced. I'm again just making sure you understand that I don't give a shit.

You're, quite literally, engaging in some sort of iterative psychotic dictation in the hopes it'll stick just through a pure act of spouting endlessly.
It's not even verbal diarrhea it's like a really poor attempt at hypnopedia or something.

>tfw there isn't enough unclaimed 'wild land' in japan to hang out with mum in

>>8850795
Why the fug are you two so mad?

Japs can't into workwear because they're scrawny manlets with dumb faces not because their only forest is for hanging themselves

>>8847844
>>8847812

glad to see such a good thread derailed by the gay kings Solocunt and FatCocks in my mouth

>>8850647

The difference we're having is with our definitions of "fashion capital".

I'm just going to use the first definition of capital from google:

"the most important city or town of a country or region, usually its seat of government and administrative center."

Using said definition, the fashion capital of the world would be the most important in regards to the world of fashion, perhaps with a governing type aspect to it. By governing aspect I mean an ability to shape and define the world of fashion through fashion weeks, boutiques, publications, etc.

While I'm not taking anything away from the impact fashion has on the individuals of Tokyo, I don't believe it has such a large enough "global governing body" to define fashion as a whole.

>>8850870

cont.

or it doesn't have a large enough impact on fashion as a whole in comparison to other locations.

>>8850667
I never meant to make more than one post. Just thought I'd contribute some of my own feelings and things I wondered a bit about, for the sake of the thread. then some guy called me out for saying things I didn't say, and I felt I had to respond. and it just went on from there. sorry if I wasted your time.

my first post had a few rough outlines of points, but the one that the argument formed around was my point about the difference in how workwear is conceived in Japan and the US, where I said that Americans have the basis to imagine some kind of false authenticity and that lends itself to a kind of "authentic" blandness in its workwear because ot's more a declaration of an imagined identity than actual fashion, whereas in Japan, which is a lot more urban and less vast a country than the us, you can't delude yourself quite so effectively about rugged authenticity. so it takes a more open-minded form there and gets lumped in more frequently with streetwear.

The other guy read this as my way of saying that Americans have real authenticity and japanese don't, so my ideas can be thrown in the trash, I'm a racist, etc.

>>8850870

Yeah you're right in that manner, Tokyo is not so influential on the rest of the world compared to other fashion cities. Reason being is, I think they've stuck to their own thing and developed it so much that they don't need to branch out to the rest of the world. Japanese fashion culture is very much its own thing, students graduating from schools work in Japan, lots and lots of domestic brands that just work within Japan because they don't need to take it overseas, they already have a good market at home. It seems like it's a very self - sustainable culture and industry over there.

>>8850890
If a American person can have imagined authenticity of 'Workwear" then can't a Japanese person have that same imagined authenticity?

>>8850795
I really don't care how much you know about Japan, the fact remains that you don't know how to read my posts. now you're asking me to produce evidence to support claims I didn't make, restating opinions of mine that I've tried to tell you again and again that I don't agree with, and layering over it all up with an uncalled for reference to Said. Uncalled for because I'm wondering aloud not about the fundamental character of two different peoples, but different approaches in the two countries to one specific style with historic roots in the US.

you're a fucking asshole with no intention of serious discussion, and I'm not going to indulge you any further.

>>8850914
>Collect the historical and geographic references in your post, and make a single comment regarding them in a meaningful way. Don't make them up.
Spare me all but this.

Or tell me how afraid of womens clothing you are, that was very insightful.

>>8850890

I'm pretty sure the Japanese cultural obsession with Americana / Heritage clothing goes far back into / started around post WW2 Japan (which I know nothing about) and not just "urban youth incorporating into streetwear"

Or they might, you know, just think it's cool because there are many brands in Japan that do Americana really well, without all this consideration of authenticity and fantasy or whatever

Considering how far from their immediate "norm" the Japanese are willing to take their interests and dress, idk man, I think even if there was a more prominent connection that they could make with actual workwear heritage etc. They'd still be the same about it and not wary to approach it because it's more "costume" than "fashion" or whatever if that's what you're trying to say

>>8850890
just shut the fuck up racist

>>8850827
good thread? it was a bunch of weebs claiming the same old reasons of 'culture' was to why.
solomon shouldn't have kept going against fatscks but he's point was very valid. majority of "why are nips X" are always the same "you see the japanese are a conformist people" or other stupid shit like that.

what this thread boils down to:

1) butthurt white kids

that is all

>meanwhile yellow niggas out there makin that money. stay mad crackaz HAHAHAAHa

>>8850966
I didn't say urban youth, or that they "just think it's cool". Most of my favourite designers are older Japanese guys who have been very interested in Americana for a long time, and Americana is more deeply rooted in Japanese culture than almost anywhere else in the world.

What nobody seems to notice is that my post was saying that they do it infinitely better than the Americans and are far more open-minded about it because they remember to treat it like fashion, not JUST as identity/roleplay. They usually don't, as far as I can tell, have the same obnoxious self-seriousness about it that some Americans do.

>>8851155
>racisim intensifies

just did a section of my trend report on this tbh.

uh, so basically it boils down to this: japan used to have p similar attitudes towards fashion w/regards to luxury and glamour when they were enjoying the fruits of their industrialization and tech booms of the 80s. Then the mid 90s hit and their bubble popped and economy tanked - basically what happened in the US in 2008 only really more affecting them.

after that they sortof switched gears and refocused on what they did best, that sortof detail oriented pragmaticism, v similar to the germans. they closed a LOT of their economy with regards to trade and influences so a lot of Japan is sortof stunted - for example their websites are trash and they the fashion magazine is still young men's primary sources for staying informed (wheras here it's moved online).

But the fashion mags there really like it like that. Popeye, 2nd, BRUTUS, Leon, Free & Easy, etc. You flip through them and they're all incredibly information dense, they don't focus on "editorials" or anything fanciful, no celeb focus. It's really more like a fashion field-guide.

they pride themselves on knowing their shit. everyone knows their shit over there. the designers study western cultures, trends, and individual details since their inception so when they implement something in a garment, they fucking know how to do it and its there for a reason. that's why most of their stuff follows this "more than meets the eye" deal, Nanamica for example, real classic looking peices, but made with CORDURA and GORE-TEX, electroceramic downs, WINDSTOPPER etc. Most of those fabrics are either produced there or have HQs there so they have a close relationship with development. If you think about it, that's a really Japanese thing. That sortof dilemma of what to preserve in the past and what to progress forward to the future.

>>8851246
They really love their sales reps. they call them "ambassadors" and each one manning a flagship store knows about the company from the beginning and it gives them a huge satisfaction to help you out. Which sounds like a little but when you compare it to the usual piss poor apathy you get in the US its kindof refreshing. And the customers usually know what they're looking for and what to look for so its kindof just a big geek fest, but about apparel.

and yeah, i guess that's the whole thing. whereas europe/US is super preoccupied with fantasty and glamour and heritage and all this arbitrary shit, japan is really more concerned with keeping up the craft and supporting their craftspeople.

so that's why a visvim shoe can look so simple but be 1k, because in addition to the ridiculous amount of care to detail to shit you probs wont notice, they like to pay every person along the way of making that shoe a decent wage so that everyone's supported and keeps the industry alive.

which is really pretty altruistic if you're gonna be a rich cunt and spent $500 on shoes its nice that you know its not going to luxury materials or markups but to actually paying someone in, y'know in an indigo dye mill outside okinawa or whatever. and you've got this amazing boot or jacket or whatever that will develop a great patina as it lasts your lifetime and on top of that will protect you from the rain or wind or whatever because it's essentially arc'teyrx veilance level tech with a folksy, westerny but not really facade.

>>8851246

>tbh.
>to be honest
>to be honest in that context

you need to get off the internet man it's taking over you

>ITT: dipshit white people

>>8851246
>>8851294

Good posts.

Re: Sales Ambassadors, jesus christ beyond their actual knowledge and enthusiasm for the brands they work for, they represent the actual products and look in their outfits, so, so painfully well.

When I was in Japan I was foaming at the mouth every time I stepped into a store, the presence of such "Ambassadors" really sells the brand to you better than anything else I've experienced in retail. I went into stores multiple times even though I knew there was no new stock, just to see what the staff were wearing that day. Incredible.

>>8851294
>>8851246
just want to say thank you very much for this.

makes me wish I could read moonrunes and order a few of those magazines.

>>8851360

You can still look at them for the pics, Zasshiko.com has free downloads that are regularly updated to

>>8851294
>>8851246
these don't really answer why "the japanese care more about fashion" while they're good reads, it doesn't explain why the populist (at least youth in tokyo and other major cities) care so much.