/fa/ - Fashion

>>15872749
yeah sure, the denim is raw and is woven on vintage shuttle looms, resulting in higher quality , longer lasting denim that gains character with time. its more expensive because it lasts longer and is objectively higher quality than pre washed, mall teir levis that are made in china. any other querstions i can help you with?

>>15872762
You're just repeating what you've read online. There is no correlation between "quality" and selvedge. You can get a pair of selvedge denim jeans at H&M, Target, and Uniqlo for $20

>>15872768
are you saying that all jeans are equal andall cotton is the same quality? because thats objectively false. my selvedge jeans are made of zimbabwe cotton which is the best cotton there is,

as far as niches in fashion go, it's probably one of the safest choices. hence, more people tend to gravitate towards it. could look cool, but for the most part these days, incredibly boring.

>>15872768
There can be low quality selvage but all the best quality denim is selvage.
The reason denim took off as a fabric (really the only fabric with fans AFAIK) is because of how it fades and ages.
>>15872771
>zimbabwe cotton which is the best cotton there is,
Don't say something this memey while defending denim, kek.

>>15872768
kind of defeats the purpose of having selvedge denim if the jeans are cobbled together by a 12 year old chink. the seams are going to come undone

>>15872782
1. The purpose of selvage is technically to keep it from fraying but the main selling point these days is it means it was woven on a vintage loom, which gives it more character in the weave.
2. Most denimhead-tier jeans are made in Japan or the US.

>>15872749
It's a combination, nice clothes, nostaligia, a bit of larping,

>>15872768
This. Blown the fuck out.

>>15872749

It lets Yuppies LARP as the masculine working class they hold in contempt.

>>15872775

This too. A conformist, Post-Hipster aesthetic without any of the vague creatively of that movement. Redditors ripping off other Redditors on whose Carhartt jacket and selvege is better.

>>15872749
Has to do with several things:
- r/MFA got proportionately more popular, and they are really stuck on that style, because reasons. Everyone who comes on there are insecure about clothes and get told this is how they should dress, and since they are insecure and dressing like this gets them upboats, they get hooked.
- Most of these people are morally/politically mainstream americans, that is to say, neoliberal, and work ununionized office jobs. They are not really leftist, but they feign concern for the working man and larp as proletariat, because this is what the "bad" parts of the traditional american estabilishment, that they want to pretend to be against, fear. Obviously, this is not really how proletariat dresses today, but they are out of touch enough to believe it.
- Being neoliberal makes flirting with outward masculinity (think sexcore) a dangerous game, because being cis white male is the most morally bankrupt option. But they are still men, and they need to do something about their repressed masculinity. So instead, they substitute it with the concern for "authenticity" - that's why all of it has to be made in USA/Japan/Europe, or if it's made somewhere else, it has to come with a long sob story about how the founder is trying to grow their granddad's bootmaking business in Shanghai or something like that. Hence selvedge, traditional leather boots, and all this shit.

>>15872840
>working man
"Um, I think you mean working PERSON, chud!"

>>15872768
>There is no correlation between "quality" and selvedge
He never claimed that. Nowhere in his post did he even mention selvedge.
There is a correlation between "quality" and raw denim

>>15872840
I insist on things made in the US, Japan or Europe because I refuse to send any more money to China or the third world than I absolutely have to.
Chinks aren't your friends. Stop supporting them. Of all the reasons to bash denim retards that is one of the worst ones.

>>15872862
There is a correlation though. There is practically no high-quality non-selvage. Just because some is shit, doesn't mean consoomer stretch non-selvage is just as good.

>>15872840
this

>>15872873
Agreed, but that is not what the first poster claimed and what the second was attacking him for.

>>15872871
I don't disagree, but OP asked to explain why these people do what they do. Whether chinks are friends or not is definitely not a concern for these people - they have no issues buying Apple, buying mall tier garbage for items that are not outwardly visible (underwear), or posting pictures from their local meme Szechuan eatery.

>>15872749
lmao, where do they buy clothes ? at Bill burr shop?

I always found it strange that wearing 50s designs made domestically became a staple for the left instead of the right. Looking at how well made things used to be while supporting American businesses seems based, like
>look at what outsourcing clothing manufacture took from you
or something.

>inb4 the right hates the working class
Hasn't been true for decades.

But no, the left wanted to larp as proles and that somehow superseded everything else.

>>15872780
>really the only fabric with fans AFAIK
Tweed has a comparable following

>>15872897

It's a weird love-hate fixation with the '50s. On one hand, it's held up as a kind of boogeyman to consistently reject and rebel against, a la Pleasantville type views of the period. A mean time of racism, sexism, and two-parent households foolish to return to.

On the other hand, the Boomers who rebelled against it constantly remained nostalgic for it. Increasingly so as time went on. Individuals of the same vein continue to fetishize everything about it except for the attitudes that made it so. From the looks to the cars to the retrofuturism.

The right has a similar fetish. But one gleaned from a real drive to restore it (sans racial attitudes) that was once animating to it, but which died in the Reagan-Bush era.

>>15872897
Just more cognitive dissonance, they are used to it by now.
It only applies to a small facet of their lives. They will insist on denim sourced and milled in the US while drinking Starbucks Java/Sumatra/Kenya blends, riding China made bikes, using Apple phones and eating whatever Mexican fusion slop is popular this week. They show similar interest in moustache care products but will gladly drive a car made in Mexico.

>>15872897
Well... one facet of it is that the right is, on the very overall top level, poorer than the """left""".(Although I insist on these people only being called left by virtue of being lefter than the right. They are a distinctly american strain of liberals, al best.) Buying domestically made clothing that imitates something from the past (which takes SOME thinking from on the designer's part) is relatively expensive.

>>15872922
That would explain expensive athleisure, but not why they imitate the 50s of all things.

>>15872768
fake selvedge is a thing
look it up

>>15872787
>yfw you learn that even modern air jet looms produce selvage fabrics so no, it does not necessarily mean it was woven on a vintage loom
I swear most denimheads don't even bother to learn about the shit they claim to be super into. They just parrot back the same information they learned from some other denimhead.

>>15872934
Wait, what. Shit.
I thought I was smarter than them because I didn't do the never wash stupidity... actually that's still true.
Either way, well played.

>>15872915
>Starbucks
American owned company that employs Americans
>Apple
American owned company that employs Americans
>Mexican fusion slop
American owned business that Americans founded. The only cognitive dissonance is schizo posts like this. American car manufactures are total shit that had to he bailed out because they didn’t adapt to the market. Fuck them. As much as Musk is a piece of shit, Tesla is an American owned, American started company that is actually breathing fresh air into the car manufacturing world. If you actually cared about America, you’d realize that companies like this do more than the previous manufacturing jobs that were outsourced.

>>15872965
Oh shit, Starbucks uses American grown beans? Apple was started IN AMERICA!!!! Wow, surely that means they don't thrive on chink labor and Foxcomm anti-suicide nets
You are the problem you dumb nigger. Don't @ me

>>15872965
>companies like this do more than the previous manufacturing jobs that were outsourced.

>less stable careers in the service industry
>giant monopolist corporations
>inferior imported product
>gives a fortune to China while making our infrastructure reliant on our largest competitor
Yeah practically indistinguishable.

>>15872965
>simping for Starbucks and Apple
man I can understand Mexican food but how much of a corporate bootlicker can one be? they really did a number on you in public school

>>15872897
>>15872909
>>15872922
It's because the real working class laborers never stopped wearing stuff like blue jeans, boots, and work jackets. There's no sense of revival needed because it never went away. The people who fetishize this style of dress are people who never have contact with it, the office workers and software developers.

I'd argue that if anything the focus is on everything pre-1950's because the postwar boom is what gave us the suburb and the move away from this sort of clothing. As middle class America developed there were new work opportunities in areas that weren't farming or factory work. As modern technology was adapted from the war effort back to peacetime manufacturing production became more efficient and we started to see cheaper mass-produced clothing. American companies sold off their old shuttle looms and they were rationed to the Japanese during the American occupation, which is where the whole 'muh japanese denim' comes from.

The Japanese connection kind of brings things full circle again because it was the Japanese who first fetishized 1940's & '50's Americana that they learned about from the American GIs over there. The Japanese went crazy for jeans, westernwear, and motorcycle culture because it was so new to their society. Post war America was obsessed with efficiency and mass-production. Japan never really gave up their view of production as craft so when they began producing Western style clothes it was all high quality. In effect they picked up where the US left off. Now all the denimheads are looking to Japan for their 'authentic American' clothing. Pretty interesting progression.

>>15872749
Brcause we are white, and dress however we want
Fuck you nigger

>>15872768
>>15872749
cringe

>>15872838
>Yuppies LARP as the masculine working class
truer words have never been spoken.

the real working class wears the clothes most appropriate for their job and the conditions they work in. Every job I had from landscaping, industrial testing, shipping and farming is full of cargo pants and hoodies, not denim.

unless the ranches out west are vastly different from the ones here in the midwest, I don't think they'd wear a ton of denim either. It's a lot of carharts and occasionally a knee length fur lined duster. Only time I saw someone where denim was when they were participating in a rodeo and it was your standard off the shelf, type-III wrangler. Working class hardly gives a fuck about being /fa/ while they're on the job.

>>15872749
God the lines where wallets/phones cause a white crease in the pocket area look like shit

>>15874206
poorfag who live to work cope

>>15874206
wagie coping with delusional superiority

>>15874804
anon... that's the point. If you are working class you live to work. none of the guys who can afford to waste money on 14 oz selvedge folded a thousand times in Japan denim work labor jobs. they're bloggers and basedposters on twitter who look with envious rose tinted glasses on the blue collar guys.

>>15874815
if i could get paid to sit on my ass all day, I would. I'm not an idiot that thinks he's better because he fucks up his body doing manual labor.

No one wants to be where they are at. wage cucks want cushy salaried positions because who wouldn't, and yuppies want labor jobs because they have a romanticized view of hard work being fulfilling and masculine.

I just like Cliff Burton

>>15874817
>none of the guys who can afford to waste money on 14 oz selvedge folded a thousand times in Japan denim work labor jobs.
Breh these same guys a hundred years ago would blow an entire month's paycheck on a good denim jacket. They couldn't afford to buy cheap disposable clothes.

>>15874817
>>15874827
dangerously based for /fa/

>>15874838
my point isn't that labor workers won't spend a lot of money on clothes for their work. They'll spend good money on the clothes they need to get the job done. Let's say a guy in colorado or whatever needs a warm jacket for the winter. is he going to
>buy Carhart jack or vest from the mall
>buy an oiled leather duster lined with wool
or
>buy a sosobrothers sherpa denim jacket that isn't water proof

Sherpa's aren't the worst for winter work, but if he's picking the best tool for the job it isn't going to be the cotton jean jacket that isn't water proof. Even if he did want to pick a sherpa jacket because he prefers the look, he's going to buy a wrangler or a levi's off the rack for half the price.

>>15874864
>half the price
more like a fraction, especially if he's smart and waits for a sale

i work a manual labour factory job where i make 19aud/hr and i buy nice denim clothes and leather boots because i like the look and feel
i don't dress full americana nostalgia but i get why even people who work office jobs like it. denim and leather just feel good

>>15874892
based

For me, I prefer Freewheelers breeches.

>>15872749
>please explain
Americans recently (in the past 50 years) switched from an agri/industrial economy to a service economy.
They went from blue color to pink collar.
The lost their balls.
Women don't respect them anymore.
So they're trying to regain that machismo and grit from working trades while still selling stock options from a desk chair and getting fatter and balder and more female by the minute.

It's a reaction to their castration by the machine.

>>15872749
Huh? That was an early 2010s thing, it's long out of fashion now.

>>15872840
>Being neoliberal makes flirting with outward masculinity (think sexcore) a dangerous game, because being cis white male is the most morally bankrupt option.
The only way you could be less cis white male than sexcore is becoming a tranny. Sexcore is gay af.

>>15872897
It was fashion back then, growing out of 00s hipster subculture. Pabst Blue Ribbon was a popular beer because it was redneck as fuck.

Now, what happened is that leftists are more fashion conscious than modern rightists. So leftists adopted the look and rightists didn't.

>>15876431
Gays are predominantly black and latino, not to mention they are a purpetually discriminated underclass.

>>15876437
>rightists didn't.
Bruh, do you even CMA?

I'm a tradey (climbing arborist), I don't wear "workwear" for work, I wear mostly synthetics, wool and mountaineering boots. On the weekends I larp as trad/prep.

I think the whole yuppie workwear thing is cringe but I understand the work.

>>15876707
*appeal

>>15876341
their shit is super high quality, hope to get a leather jacket of theirs someday

>>15872840
My man you sound retarded, talk like a normal person

Dudes that aren’t poor want to dress poor without looking poor

>>15872749
OK so here's my take

The last big cultural trend was hipsters; a culture derived from parody and derision of the worst trends of the 20th century. Hipsterdom had/has its roots in satire, sending up every bad trend of the 20th century, from sweatbands, aviator style eyeglasses, short shorts, surfstyle windbreakers, moustaches etc. Itself was a rejection of the millenial optimism which died with 9/11; hipsters were a mockery of the world we lived in. Endeavor was viewed as tryhard and cheesy, opening yourself up for derision.

>why write an opera when you can get piss drunk and high, smash the fuck out of a minimoog while screeching about shit stains and dead animals? (further reading: Alice Glass)

Hipsterdom opened the door to the Great Reset: tear down so you can rebuild better. Burn the books, eliminate the power structures, tear up the constitution, cancel the powerful, eat the rich, and start from scratch. With the pillars of our society being torn down by vandals, we entered the theoretical endpoint of hipster culture/reset culture : the cultural void we entered ca. 2015. "culture" as we knew it just stopped having any connection to history. Post-irony became the closest thing to a cohesive culture. As the previous generation revolved around mockery, post-2015 style became mockery of mockery, making fun of the hipsters who were making fun of the 90s who were making fun of the 70s. It was nonsensical memes and gen-z toilet humor; it was a deep fried meme with the caption of the letter "E" and glowing eyes.

It's only fit that the counterculture to this becomes an embrace of tradition; only tradition has been destroyed. The books have been burnt, the history has been re-writ and re-cast with a more inclusive playbill. The last authentic, unironic, sincere and hearfelt cultural movement was skate punk in the late 90s - early 2000s. Everything after that was just an insincere derisive rehash of what had been done.

(1/2)

>>15872749
>>15876915


So many people get stuck in a kind of limbo where they are trying to recreate what they've destroyed. They want blue jeans and blue collars but they don't understand how they came to be. They want to be manly but they don't understand what it means to be a man. They want to cling to the white culture they've destroyed. But it's never to be. Because now, we are all niggers.

>>15876915
>>15876918
so is it illegal for me to wear this levis denim jacket i bought? i feel really bad its the only new thing i own everything else is thrifted i really splurged on it

I took the raw denim pill, got 2 pairs of 'entry level' naked and famous raw jeans. black and raw indigo. I could barely button the fucking things first time i put them on. had to wear without underwear a couple of days to break them in. eventually decided to take them into the shower and it seemed that they stretched in places they needed and shrunk in places that were loose. resulting in an almost custom fit, and a few days after wearing them they are broken in and feel great, very stiff but feel much more substantial than run of the mill levis that i normally bought. not really seeing any 'sick fades' yet, and i refuse to roll up my cuffs to show off selvedge cause i feel like a huge faggot doing that.

2 weeks wearing these and they're still super stiff and restricting compared to normal jeans with certain things. not sure if thats meant to be the case forever or not

>>15872840
dang it I have raw denim jeans and heritage leather boots. mainly because I got so tired of buying disposable consoomer shit and wanted something that lasts/gets better with age. Also I
fucking hate chinks

>>15877814
A denim jacket is fine anon. It's when you go full workwear it gets bad

>>15877915
is it ok though? those guys in the pic arent wearing all denim. is that what i look like?
should i sell this levis jacket? maybe it was a mistake. at this point im ashamed that i bought levis not for quality but because fuck levis

I've been in construction my whole life, I just wear a hoodie and track pants and sneakers. I'll wear work boots if there's snow or rain.

>>15877916
>is that what i look like?
I don't know, do you look like them? One dude is wearing all denim, all of them have shitty cuffs on their pants, and all the jackets look brand new and are fully buttoned up. You'll have to decide for yourself. Also don't buy any more new Levi's stuff

>>15877938
i think ill just sell the jacket
whats a good price
20 dollars?
im seriously having a panic attack i just cant
am i the problem?

>>15877938
I love Levi’s

>>15874817
No, they aren't, they hate the working class.

>>15872749
Wew lads thanks OP
I was about to buy this jacket

>>15877952
>No, they aren't, they hate the working class.
This, they imagine Working Class Joes resenting the adoption of work wear so they accuse these same imaginary people of "GATEKEEPING" and being "ELITIST".

On a positive note these neo-hipsters are so down the rabbit hole that you can easily pull some elements into your wardrobe and not come off like an insta-clown.

>>15872749
TV. If you work for a living, jeans are the fucking worst.

ITT gatekeeping faggots that think being republican is the new "counter culture". All it takes is one look at the WAYWT threads to know that no one should take advice from people on /fa/.

>>15872907
As does corduroy.

>>15874817
>bloggers
>making enough money to buy Japanese denim

>>15878047
wow, all you had to do was look 2 posts up and check yourself

>>15872768
>There is no correlation between "quality" and selvedge
This is objectively false and you're only saying that because you're mad

>>15878194
I bought a pair of selvedge at fucking target bro.

>>15878300
A correlation needn't be always true to be valid. The majority of instances of selvage likely still points accurately to higher quality denim.

>>15878194
lmaooooooooo so many guys in this thread trying to defend their 500$ jeans that feel like industrial carpeting

>>15878300
Not all selvedge is created equal. Selvedge made by chink slaves in a factory who make 18 cents a day and are slapped together as quick as possible aren't the same as selvedge made by a Japanese craftsman who has spent their life perfecting their art and makes every single stitch the best they can. Not to mention that the Japanese person makes a livable wage doing that and thus that adds to the overhead costs whereas Zhang chained to his workbench for 18 hours a day given cocaine to him working all day costs the company basically nothing so Target can sell them for 20 bucks.
But you have already made up your mind so I'm not replying to you anymore

Somebody recommend me a pair of good jeans that aren't chinkshit for $100ish max. No gay raw shit, I just want to wash my damn pants. Does this exist?

>>15878369
not really no. gustin is your best bet. they have made in usa raws for like 70 dollars. thats the best barghain youre going to find for any made in the usa jeans.

whats the best denim under 200 usd (preferably under 100) with a size 40 or 42 leg? waist 32 or 34 whatever its fine, don't ask questions, just tell me who sells the best with those sizes, my go to since a child are wranglers slim cowboys but my hips are too tight in those jeans now and im thinking of upgrading to better quality if its a good idea, my last pair ripped at the nuts after 3 years of daily wear at work, kinda nice, but another pair ripped on the front along thr zipper less than 6 months in when i stretched to get on a platform

>>15878369
Bravestar. Most of their stuff is sub 100 and is made of Cone Mills denim or Japanese denim. I have a jacket from them that I absolutely love and the fades on it look awesome

>>15877938
What's wrong with cuffs? Raw denim comes in ridiculous lengths and cuffing easily solves that.

>>15878778
Most heritage patterns come in ridiculous lengths. The assumption was that your wife would hem it for you.

>>15878778
>ridiculous lengths
those are meant to be purchased by tall people.
god i wish all short people could be euthanized in mine craft of course!

>>15879763
Most raws come with 36 inch inseams, some higher. I am 6 feet tall and nowhere near that.

>>15879728
seen more old pictures of workers with turned up jeans then hemmed, they came in a single length simply cos it's quicker to manufacture than multiple different lengths.

>>15881034
I'm 6'6 and my inseam is 38.
You don't know my pain, manlet.

>>15881084
>more old pictures of workers with turned up jeans then hemmed
the men who roll their cuffs don't have wives or gfs to hem them and are too bad with money to pay a tailor.
Avoid them.

>>15881116
It was just easier, i personally prefer hemmed jeans, i am just stating that it was more common to see rolled up jeans in the time period raw denim was worn more by the average worker, in most factories i worked people just wore cheap navy blue cargo style trousers in polycotton these days rather than raw denim and cheap or issued work boots, no wants to spend a fortune just for some shitty job.

>>15881124
>easier
lazy person detected
what a surprise!

>>15881135
Doing easy things does not equate to laziness.

>>15881135
false equivalence

>>15881135
I'm not talking about myself dumb fuck, people wore jeans as actual workwear in the past, they were not what you wore when you went out to the pub whatever, rolling them up would be quicker than getting your wife to it or spending money what people back then would rather spend on things like food.

>>15881146
wife to hem it*

>>15872768
>>15874206
>>15876449
>>15872840
>>15881116
>>15881135

>>15881108
Some Jap brands have inseams that long, you'll be paying a premium though. What's your waist?

>>15877909
I'm in the same boat man. There are still a lot of things that potentially separate you from r/mfa "americana" spouters though, e.g. wearing denim or carhartt jackets at the same time as everything else, cuffing jeans to show off selvedge, not washing your jeans to develop awful looking fades in exchange for crotch blowouts

>>15879763
>those are meant to be purchased by tall people.
You are so fucking retarded. It's a one length fits all so you can get them hemmed to your length.
No one ever gets them hemmed though they just cuff them because they're lazy

>>15872897
Why is anyone confused that the left is nostalgic for an era when communists like Roosevelt and JFK were in office and the rich were taxed over 90%?
>the right hates the working class
>Hasn't been true for decades.
Depends if you're talking about policy or optics. Latest presidency saw the working class die en masse after getting their taxes raised to fund massive welfare handouts for the ultrarich and Israel.
The talking heads never seem to bring that up to their base though.