Anvil Stand Silencing

[noko No.201049]

So I'm going to fill the the legs of my Anvil stand with fine grain sand to add some mass and absorb some sound. My neighbors are pretty cool, but I still don't want to bother them with loud or high pitched hammering.

This stand is all welded up with the exception of the feet. I'm gonna flip it upside down, fill it up, pack the sand really well, and GMAW weld it shut.
The legs are 2" interior diameter 1/4" walled square tubing.

I've consulted with other blacksmiths about his problem and they either say that "Oil mixed with sand" is quieter or that "Plain Sand" is quieter, yet no one can give me any type of reasoning behind WHY.

If i do add Oil to the sand I was thinking of using Linseed oil, or food grade mineral oil, so its not as dangerous to weld around.

I actually have a 3'' thick maple wood block with a routered setting for the anvil, I'm currently staining it and hardening it with Teak oil, which is why its resting on a piece of fiber board in this picture.

TL;DR

>What absorbs sound more effectively, Oil mixed with sand, or plain sand? If I add oil to the sand mixture, whats the safest oil to then weld around?

I go to work in 2 hours, gonna keep checking this thread periodically. Thanks guys.

[noko No.201052]

Oh, and the Anvil is a 125lbs Kolshwa. So it makes a nice ring and isn't obnoxiously loud to begin with.

[Anonymous No.201057]

I suggest this

[Anonymous No.201058]

[Anonymous No.201060]

>>201057

Yeah, no.

[Anonymous No.201061]

>>201057
thats what my anvil is on isn't too loud.
i hear that you can put some chains on your anvil and it helps dampen the noise for some reason have not tried it yet myself

[Anonymous No.201062]

>>201061

I am going to be chaining it down. So that will help a little too. I'm sure your stump is great, and I also like the nostalgia value of an anvil on a wooden stump, but there's more mass, which means a more effective anvil, under a metal stand if its done right.

[Anonymous No.201064]

oil mixed with sand would give a quieter sound due to greater mass, my friend

[Anonymous No.201066]

>>201057
also, that kinda thing really does my head in. here's all us blacksmiths and newb-smiths looking for anvils and people are using them as fancy fucking tables.

yeah, fuck off, stop sticking them in your living room for your rich friends to "ooh" and "aaah" over.

[Anonymous No.201069]

>>201064

That makes sense. I wasn't thinking that way with the sand... I was thinking it would aid in compression, but I didn't know if looser sand would be better.

Do you have a suggestion on an oil? Or do you think linseed or mineral would be ok?

[Anonymous No.201072]

>>201066

lol... Yup. And I bet that fucker would still charge you at least 3 or 4 hundred for the anvil and its "Vintage" stump.

[Anonymous No.201073]

>>201069
myself? i'd go for used engine oil. It's extremely thick&heavy, and you can get it free from any garage/scrapyard/breakers yard ever incepted. they pay many $$$ to get rid of it so you taking a few litres off them makes them happy.

[Anonymous No.201075]

>>201073

That's frigin Brilliant!

the Flash point for most engine oil is 420 -485 degrees F.
but i don't think it would be explosively flammable.
And it would definitely inhibit rust.
So I might light it on fire welding but there probably won't be enough oxygen in the pipe for it to burn long or be dangerous.

[Anonymous No.201078]

>>201075
if you're worried about it burning when you weld the end-caps on, get some hessian sacks and thoroughly soak them in water. then, before you start the weld put them on top of the oil sand then weld the plate on. that'll stop the burning for the length of time to weld it.

[Anonymous No.201082]

>>201078

Water inside the legs is definitely something I do not want.

[Anonymous No.201088]

Here's a picture of it upside down when I stared welding it up. I'm gonna pack the sand inside down with a wooden dowel and hammer.
It I wasn't going to add oil (plain sand) then I would heat the entire leg up with an OxyAcetalyne torch before capping it to make sure absolutely no moisture is inside the leg.

[Anonymous No.201090]

>>201082
you forget, when you place it upright again, the oilsand is going to mostly contain the rust, and the heat from the weld itself will begin to boil the water away so the chance of it staying a liquid is extremely low.

i'd test this theory myself, except that some wankers stole my bloody MIG welder

[Anonymous No.201093]

>>201090

Yeah... Maybe.

That sucks dude. Gas or Inner shield? I fucking hate tool thieves.

[Anonymous No.201094]

Weld caps on, then drill and tap a hole. Then fill through the hole and plug with a bolt.

[Anonymous No.201095]

>>201093
Gas. it'll have ended up in a scrapyard; it's all these particular guys do. we call 'em pikeys.


i miss that damn think, it was damn versatile and i used it for so many projects.

[Anonymous No.201096]

>>201094

It would be a lot harder to pack down that way. I could shake it while filling but it still wouldn't be as compacted.

Thanks for all the help... As you can see, there's just so many different things going on that complicate this.

[Anonymous No.201097]

>having an anvil but never having visited anvilfire

http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=jd_stand/anvil-stands

noob blacksmith detected

[Anonymous No.201099]

>>201097

Herp a derp when I've already read AnvilFire and the NWBA and iForgeIron and none of those sites explain this question thoroughly.

herp a derp when your responding to a serious thread on DIY with lol google

[Anonymous No.201109]

saw a blacksmithing demo last summer, guy hung some sort of weight off the square end of the anvil to make the pounding quieter (less ring to it)...
also his anvil was attached to a large chunk of wood/tree trunk.

[Anonymous No.201112]

>>201109

I've been reading a lot of "anvil silencing", "anvil quieting" threads and articles... but I haven't read anything like that. Can you describe it? I'll start searching online for what your talking about.

[MusicCityTitan No.201134]

I would say go with plain sand and dont add any oil or liquid to it. Sound travels better through a liquid medium and it may have a tendency to be louder through the oil/sand combo than just through plain sand.

Some couplants (medium used to better transfer sound) are oils.
"The main properties looked for in a good couplant material are its acoustic properties, corrosion inhibition, and surface wetting so that it binds well. The length of time it stays wet, known as drying time, is also important, as well as the temperature levels it can endure and its uniformity. A unique aspect of some couplant gel is that it contains a fluorescent tracer dye that glows in the ultraviolet band, which is used to monitor coverage levels." sounds like oil would be a great couplant (which you dont want)

[Anonymous No.201142]

>>201049
Sand isn't very dense. How about powdered tungsten?

[Anonymous No.201154]

>>201112
think it was basically a bar that bent and hooked into the round hole near the square edge of the anvil and hung down with some kind of weight on the end(?). was "home made" for sure. the guy demonstrated the difference in ringing sound with it on and with it off.

saw it at the John Deere home/museum in IL
http://www.deere.com/wps/dcom/en_US/corporate/our_company/fans_visitors/tours_attractions/historical
site.page
don't see any pic of it on the site but possibly one could try to contact the blacksmith guy there and ask about it? its a small historic site. only one blacksmith so should be easy to track down.

[MusicCityTitan No.201157]

here is a link to a vid where a guy added magnets and showing the difference in sound before and after.

http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/VaughnT/?action=view&current=MVI_0344.mp4

[Anonymous No.201158]

>>201112
here we go, went back and dug thru pics from visit to John Deere historical site... got one that clearly shows the "silencer".
so its a hook with a hammer hanging from it. don't know what the weight/size the hammer was...

[Tozetre No.201176]

>anvil noise/quieting thread
>nobody posts magne-
>>201157
>oh

OP, I have slapped a couple of biggish rare-earth magnets on my anvil, and it really helps reduce the hearing-destroying ring to a nice dull "tonk" noise.

>>201158
That's not a bad idea, either! Anything that would stop a bell from ringing will work on an anvil.

[Anonymous No.201223]

you might try filling your legs with clay it has much more density than sand. I'd like to build a anvil stand one of these days but i think i'll wait till i get a proper anvil i'm using a old tooth from a big excavator or bull dozer or something right now that i found out in the desert.

on a side not why do magnets reduce the noise of anvils ?

[Anonymous No.201249]

>why do magnets reduce the noise of anvils

The anvil is probably ringing like a bell or cymbal (a rectangular cross section of one). The center is fixed, while the extremities are not. A magnet at the center has the same effect as trying to damp a cymbal or bell by touching it in the middle. Touching the rim will damp it effectively because that's where the most motion is occurring.

I'm thinking the magnet works because it isn't strong enough to be a part of the moving mass. While the surface of the anvil is vibrating, the magnet is not. The bond between the two surfaces isn't good enough for the vibrations to transfer into the mass of the magnet. The friction between the two surfaces damps the vibration.

I could be wrong though. Maybe it's just a fucking miracle.

[Anonymous No.201455]

>>201134
>>201249
>>201176

Here's the anvil/stand/woodblock pretty much finished after a few hours of work today.

I'm gonna listen to these suggestions, Add some magnets and not add oil. Not adding oil is safer anyway. I'm gonna heat up the legs with a torch before welding them shut so no moister is trapped inside.

Thanks everyone!
It's nice to get the opinions of people with practical skills.

[Anonymous No.201517]

>>201455
make sure you heat the sand. there is going to be way more moisture in that than on plain steel.

[Anonymous No.201519]

magnet...yeah, that's a a great idea. High heat+magnets...uh. Longevity is not likely.

[teka No.201542]

>>201519
i am pretty sure he is not going to run into any problems.

You heat the metal in the forge, then put it on the anvil to bang on it.. and the same mass that makes it a useful anvil also makes it a massive heat sink. Short of loading the whole anvil into a furnace i doubt there will be much heating of a large magnet clinging on an out-of-the-way spot.

[Anonymous No.201563]

>>201519
anvils very rarely get to high heats, and when they do they stop being anvils and start being large lumps of malleable steel.

therefore, smiths will very rarely heat an anvil up past certain temperatures which helps to forge large pieces of iron&steel.

[Anonymous No.201564]

>>201455
God-damnit i am so fucking jealous of you right now.