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/diy/ - Do It Yourself

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1680575 No.1680575 [Reply] [Original]

Went to a safety thing at work today, and was told that most on-site suicides are done by project managers. Any project managers wanna fill us in to why that may be the case?

>> No.1680668

>>1680575
if something fucks up bigly they are the first to be against the wall

>> No.1680679

Construction Managment sucks, everything is going non union cause of cost but everyone expects union quality. Most jobs are salary and 6 day work weeks are common. Jobsites usually aren't close to home. Know one guy that works 6 days a week mostly 12hr days along with a 2 hr commute.

>> No.1680681

>>1680679
This this this
Its a high stress, high expectation job that you can only handle with multiple vices or being a time bomb

>> No.1680684

>>1680681
Can confirm, did it for 6 months on underground construction. The money ain't THAT great for the stress.

>> No.1680697

>>1680679
>union quality
>6 day weeks
>job sites aren't close to home
>12 hr days

Buddy I work in union construction and that's the standard for _field_ work. Us using our hands and sacrificing our body. We don't have enough guys, so we end up working OT.

>> No.1680702
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1680702

Our project manager isnt ever on site and when he is, it's just to drop off checks/material and inspect our progress real quick (like 5 min) or he stands around jacking off with the super for like 45 minutes talking about old muscle cars and football. I think if he killed himself itd be because he cant bid work to save his fucking life. He keeps getting underbid by small drop-in-the-bucket amounts and honestly I'm a little embarrassed for him. We're talking about him losing a $1.6m contract because he got underbid by $4k.

>> No.1680708

>>1680697
You get paid hourly though and you probably get a annuity and a pension, which project management doesn't unless you're with a big company and get the golden handcuffs.Project Management is a complete mindfuck no one is ever happy and you work yourself out of a job. Also if your a hall guy you need to work those hrs for the lean times like in 2009

>> No.1680711

>>1680708
So if a project manager works for a union shop but started out as a union electrician, is he considered a BA member since he's not doing electrical work anymore?

>> No.1680713

>>1680711
Where I'm at a project manager is considered a management position and is not entitled to any union membership.

>> No.1680715

>>1680702
I guarantee you 4k isn't the reason your company lost the bid, but whatever.

>> No.1680718

>>1680715
How would you know?

>> No.1680729

Its a very stressful job. Everybody wants something for nothing. Almost everyone is trying to pull something over on you. You always have to be the bad guy. There's no reward for when things go well only anger when things go wrong. The people financing the projects more often than not have no idea how the construction game is played they just wanna be a "developer".

>> No.1680755

>>1680718

it's a reputation thing. good reputation = 4k doesn't matter for shit, even to state flunkies.

>> No.1680775

>>1680575
Lack of proper banter in manager positions prevent them from both blowing off steam and from developing a tough skin. People need to learn to just fucking relax and only pretend to care when someone wants to chew them out.

>> No.1680813

>>1680755
especially for a 1.6 mil job. 4k is literally nothing, contractors usually mark up your bid by 15-20% anyway, meaning that they could have absorbed that 4k without batting an eye

>> No.1680816

most likely person to be in debt, legal or otherwise

>> No.1680818

>>1680575
Everyone projects on to them and it’s hard to manage.

>> No.1680841

GCs are fags that’s why

>> No.1680854

>>1680575
It could be more like this (numbers aren't real, they're for example purposes only):

Job sites in US per year: 10000
Suicides per job site per year: 4
Project managers who committed job site suicide per year: 3

Headlines at safety briefing:
>Job site managers almost 3x more likely to commit suicide on site.

Why are they bringing attention to this? Everyone hates the manager, everyone smiles at the info, instant unit cohesion from bullshit statistics.

>> No.1680871

>>1680755
You don't know about our shop's reputation in the area we're in. Or even what area I'm in.

>> No.1680874

>>1680871
Your shop is full of fags in a fag area with a fag reputation, fag.

>> No.1680890

>>1680871
4k means fuck all, you daft twat

>> No.1680931

>>1680575

Project management is typically a high stress job in whatever field, construction, information technology, whatever. People talk all the time about how shit rolls downhill but work in project management and you will find that it rolls uphill just as often, if not more.

>> No.1680940

I'm a project, site manager. The thread is spot on. Too much shit to think about at once. Deliveries need to be on time, gotta know what 15 guys are doing at any given time, safety, troubleshooting design flaws. Gotta answer a bunch of questions from all the "developers", shit always changes and nothing ever really goes according to plan. Someone always calls and surprises you with a " good joke ".
My older project manager is a ticking time bomb. I'd say his close to psycho. He is also a bad motherfucker and people generally stay away from him, including me.

>> No.1680958

>>1680940
Cry more GC bitch boy

>> No.1680993 [DELETED] 

>>1680958
Go fick yourself cunt, I am a bitch boi tho. Ain't nothing I'm afraid of more than my senior psycho manager. I couldn't give a fuck about you, and probably could make you cry. You ain't seen the other side like I have. Fuck I really wanna smash your skull and make cakes from your but brain.

>> No.1681795

>>1680818
kek

>> No.1681798

4k isn't really that far off, at least he is close. Sounds like your not familiar with the sealed bid process. The real problem is when your bid is called out first and everyone gasps.

>> No.1681808

>>1680818
you

>> No.1681854

>>1680940
Deliveries, guys working, safety sound like superintendent problems to me. At least those are my problems as a superintendent. Our project managers deal with multiple jobs from the higher management aspect. Dealing with the architects, engineers, and owners. I deal with everything on the day to day job site side of it.

>> No.1681856

>>1680575
Ever tried to deal with fucking dry wallers?

>> No.1682210

>>1681856
Everything above was just bitching. This is the real reason.

>> No.1682389

>>1681798
Same with defense contracts if 3 of 4 are accurate and you are the 1 that missed something, you just bought a pink slip. The government has gotten better about not awarding to people that don’t know enough to bid close to what it should cost.

>> No.1682395

>>1681856
had drywallers come in on a renovation project for an airport terminal.

They unscrewed (and tore) fire alarm equipment out and hung it in the rafters from the power/signal lines. the few boxes that were cut in properly (some of the outlets, not all) were packed with mud.

>> No.1682397

>>1682395
This is also where one electrical firm installed all the lighting and conduit in a vast under-terminal baggage space, then another tore it out and rebuilt it, then the lead/asbestos guys came in, taped it and tore everything out again, but into hazard bags, and then the first contractor re-did the lighting the same as their first time but had to fight for it every second because the HVAC and plumbers were allowed in first and didn't follow the BIM when the tolerance was already 0.

>> No.1682400

>>1680702
Underbid by $4k? No someone just outbid him on skill at the same price. If you work for this guy then consider that what he was selling for $1.6m were his skills, your skills and the skills of those you work with.

>> No.1682411

ahahaha all my internships were with project managment companies,

luckily i actually landed one engineering technician job that was fun before i fucked off to becomeing a hippie trimming weed and fishing and fuckking off the other 8months of the year.

i recently got a job as a tech at a butane hash oil refinery distilling it into 98% thc oil. they moved onto legal cannibis packaging and offered me a demotion, i declined the paycut and collect UI while travelling around looking for places id like to live and work hmmmmm

>> No.1682412

but yeah during all those internships i always saw the pms soooo fucking stressed out working soooo much ....entry level salary pay did not seem worth the time and my supervisors were always stressed and serious

>> No.1682418

>>1680697
>we work overtime for 2.5 times the pay
>woe is me

>> No.1682419

>>1680702
You're clueless

>> No.1683751
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1683751

MFW doing project and construction manegment at college

what have I done /diy/

>> No.1683810

Surely things aren't that shitty for smaller construction right?
I'm going to build houses and small buildings to sell (currently I work with concrete design), and gotta admit I never managed a construction site by myself.

>> No.1684601

>>1680575
it's a job where you get the stress of managing huge sums of money without actually getting paid huge sums of money.
two of my friends I studied civil engineering with went into project management, one of them seems to be loving his job while the other one looks like he's about to have a nervous breakdown every time I meet him. it's not for everybody

>> No.1684603

>>1682419
Found the seething fatassed PM who sits around all day jacking off

>> No.1684667

>>1683751
Hey, there is always alcohol.

>> No.1684744

>>1683810
In my (limited) experience, there are considerably fewer moving parts and less coordination required for single family residential than for multi-family and commercial. On a large site, you potentially have ironworkers, concrete workers, masons, plumbers, electricians, HVAC installers, carpenters, and pipefitters all working simultaneously, plus material deliveries and site visits from architects, engineers, and developers.

Smaller jobs generally are only going to have 1-3 trades going at a time. They also usually don't have an engineering firm, architecture firm, various consultants, or a developer involved. The flipside is that small jobs often involve a homeowner or other end-user outside of the construction trade. They likely will not know anything about what is being done, why it is being done, and why it is priced the way it is priced. On big jobs, where pretty much everyone involved is part of the industry and knows the lay of the land, there is no homeowner freaking out over every little thing you do, or changing his mind about how he wants things done and freaking out over the change order cost.

So there is a trade-off between dealing with a whole lot of coordination or dealing with some shitbird who does not understand the process at all but thinks he can do your job better than you.

>> No.1684755

>>1683810
No one will respect you, will lie to your face, will promise but not show up, and your boss will ask you what the fuck is going on while stringing them along with long pay periods. The lower end of the totem pole on subcontractors is filled with cowboys in this seller's market, and a lot of them are alcoholic drug addicts.

I should know, I straddle the line between both.

>> No.1685156

>>1680575
You get shit from all sides. Your supers and your laborers are constantly pushing you for more support/resources, and telling you that your budget/schedule/materials aren't going to work for whatever reason. And then your bosses/clients are shitting on you for not being under budget and ahead of schedule and the don't care about your labor or materials issues, just get it done otherwise they'll get someone else.

It's a shitty place to be, and everyone makes it feel like anything that goes wrong is your fault for not managing it better, nevermind that expectations from all sides are often unrealistic.

>> No.1685166

>>1680575
It's a thankless job. I worked as a PM for 17 years, but in mfg/product development, but I'm sure its the same for other industries. You have all the responsibility but zero authority. Engineers give 2 fucks about costs of anything or hours spent to engineer the product, mgt holds the PM responsible for everything....manufacturing fuck ups, engineering fuck ups, supplier delays, etc. It's a fucking depressing, thankless position and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I can see and understand why there are suicides. For anyone thinking this is an easy path to management....STOP. It isn't. Stay in engineering, purchasing, manufacturing, or whatever. You may make a little less, but trust me, it's worth your fucking health and life. Oh, and an afterthought.....everyone is a project management expert......it's easy to second guess and monday morning QB after things go to shit. Management sucks ass. They can keep their $, I'd prefer to keep my sanity and health.

>> No.1685320

>>1680702

Came here to agree with the other guys who replied to you.

Your logic is waaaay off.

Nobody loses a contract over a few grand.

Additionally.. why would a PM being working on bids? I don't think you know what you're talking about.

t.pm

>> No.1685332

>>1685320
>Additionally.. why would a PM being working on bids? I don't think you know what you're talking about.
>Implying all countries have the same work structure of the US

>> No.1685391

>>1682418

>2.5

Ha.

>> No.1685396

>>1682412
I hope they never legalize here, don't want to be associated with likes of you

>> No.1685413

>>1680940
i am in software development, we have daily scrums for this. so that our managers know what we are doing. they don't go around and ask, we have tasks with estimates and we track those tasks and report progress daily and we have short 3-4 week sprints to finish a set of tasks for the given sprint. is your process somewhat similar? good process is key.

>> No.1685708

>>1680697
then accept more apprentices you dipshist

>> No.1685912

>>1681856
Yup. I'm a super/PM (family company so I'm expected to pull twice my weight) and the drywallers on my current job took twice as long as needed and did the absolute shittiest job while acting like they didn't understand english, which pushed my painters back a week, which set my floor guys back 2 weeks becuase they were booked the week after they were supposed to arrive on my jobsite, then after the floor guys finished i had a 3 page long punchlist of just wall repair becuase the finishers did such a god awful job so I had topersonally lay down 5000 sq ft of ramboard in one day to protect the floor from the buckets of wasted mud flung everywhere by low-IQ illegal immigrants fixing their own mistakes as well as from the paint becuase the painters have to come back and essentially repaint the entire space now after millwork (which looks like garbage) and plumbing fixtures have been installed.

And all that is a grain on the beach of bullshit subs have pulled on this job and every last bit of it is 100% my responsibility.

I'm 26 and after two years of doing this I look 35 . I love it though, I'd be a lazy shithead if I wasn't working 24/7. That being said I can definitely see how doing this for decades could break you down to a ticking time bomb.

>> No.1685929
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1685929

>>1685912
well you know what to do. it is all illegals' fault. vote MAGA and a high IQ cletus will step in and replace the illegals.
/pol/tards are so predictable.

>> No.1685950

>>1685929
not the anon you replied to but when were politics brought into this? it's common knowledge in construction that illegals do shit work

>> No.1685952

>>1685950
most roofers are mexicans, illegal or not i dont know. all of them do shit work? both reputable roofing companies and fly by nights employ them.

>> No.1685978

>>1685708
>Accept more apprentices
There isn't enough capital to keep the system going, bubby.
Listen to those chains fucking rattling.

>> No.1686032

>>1685929
>>1685952

I'm the original anon you replied to, and I could give less of a fuck about MAGA. I've been in construction since I was 16 though and I've never met a crew of illegal immigrants that did anything more than "you-get-what-you-pay-for" work.

On the same token, I've met legal immigrants from korea, africa, jamaica, mexico, el salvador, and peru that were almost all hard working hustlers with multiple houses and smart investments.

The fact that you were offended by me saying a bunch of underpaid illegals did shit drywall work tells me you are either a pencil pusher or inexperienced. It's a shame a lot of clients award jobs based strictly on the price alone or there wouldn't be a market for unskilled workers doing work that requires skill.

>> No.1686220

>>1686032
>It's a shame a lot of clients award jobs based strictly on the price alone or there wouldn't be a market for unskilled workers doing work that requires skill.

Finding good subs is always miss more than hit.
Finding management that will only let you bring in shit tier workers so the company can maximize profits is the same.

>Management wants a 6 month quality house built in 45 days.
>Browbeats PM into getting as many trades in as possible at the same time.
>Site is a complete clusterfuck for 6 months. Everyone is in everyone else's way.
>Punch list still not done 8 months later.
>House is full of defects not even covered by the list.

PM needs bigger nuts and some Xanex and hair plugs to go with his drinking problem.
Management "awards" him 8 more houses since other PM quits from stress.
Days later, informs PM he has been "awarded" a 30+ house subdivision that will be starting spring of next year.
Get ready for the goat rope rodeo, bitch.
Glad I work a decent sub

>> No.1686926

>>1680575
probably yea, I mean imagine telling a bunch of people who build things, how to build things, and you arent even a builder. so much could go wrong, and they know you're an idiot because you have no experience.

>> No.1686952

>>1684744
>working for home owners or HOA ever
I can confirm. Don't do this. They will bitch about every single thing. They're better off hiring a handyman or doing it themselves. They're never worth the risk.

>> No.1686970
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1686970

>>1683751
>Paying thousands of dollars to be the biggest bitch on every jobsite

AHAHAHAHAHAHHA