/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>658367
They are fine. Really what you need to ask is are they fine for the price you are paying?

what country would that be? In the Netherlands you can usualy get them for relatively cheap, just pay attention to super saver deals etc. They are decent quality, but normal prices are rather high. Gamma's own brand is also very decent but much cheaper.

>>658367
What's the price?
Judging by the picture I don't think that battery will last very long. I got a craftsman cordless drill and holy shit is it good quality. They have a few C3 drills but this has 465 in lbs of torque, crazy high. Came in real handy when working with some fatter longer screws. Also the lithium battery lasts for a good while which is nice because I don't have to stop to change, this one charges in 30 mins. Here's the link

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-c3-lithium-ion-compact-drill-kit-powered/p-00935704000P?prdNo=8

So with that drill, how long does the battery last, how long to charge, how many in lbs of torque, does it have high and low speed, will replacement parts be available in 6 or 7 years? Etc...

>>658367
Green bodied Bosch tools: consumer range.
Blue bodied Bosch tools: professional range.(Mostly. Beware that Bosch play silly buggers sometimes)

The green Bosch tools are fine as long as you bear that in mind. I'd buy a Bosch over B&D any day of the week.

>>658430
Price is the same but it almost half as weak as that Craftsman.

Remember, Bosch is actually a charity, not a company.

Bosch reinvests into itself almost twice as much money as most Jewish owned corporations. After that, the money that would normally go to Israel, New York, or London as low taxed dividends instead goes to charity.

So, when you buy Bosch, you're guaranteed to get a better designed product, a better built product, and your money won't be used by AIPAC to buy US and British government support for the Israeli apartheid state.

>>658455
This
Or go for a makita

what about dewalt?

this is obviously YUROP thread, so let's make a general europe power tools thread maybe?

eh, that's just a thinly veiled excuse to ask: how does Milwaukee compare? I know a Milwaukee salesman and might get a discount but is it worth it?

>>658367
Bosch barrel handle jigsaw is one bad mofo. The single best handheld plug in power tool I have ever bought

dewalt brushless line is great

>>658455
Relative noob here, but if I used a B&D drill for a week and then a Bosch drill for a week, what differences would I expect to notice?

>>658367
we use Bosch, Bostitch, grizzly, de walt, Skil, etc tools at my construction job, the brand doesnt really matter, 20volt impact died within a few months wheres the old 18v that was several years of abuse older is still going strong, years later. any tools will break if abused too hard, you just dont want that craftsman power tools or black and decker shit they sell to soccer moms for around the house DIY shit that doesnt work for crap

>>658965
whereas* sorry for the run on sentence

if you pay 99$-199$ for a drill it should be able to be a work horse. the black and decker crap (at least the shit ive used at other peoples houses, when they ask me to do something handy, usually has a smaller than 18v battery), runs slower, has no power, no settings options, and wont take the abuse that a de walt will

>>658367
Bosch is fine if you use your tools 3 times a year. The pro line is better.

For really good tools have a look at Festo.

>>658972
If he decides on Festo, I can organise a 2nd mortgage for him!

Makita here - never a problem. Panasonic also good. Surprisingly the only Hitachi I bought was shit and fucked up 2 chargers, the speed controller and a gearbox all in less than 6 months. The Makita I replaced it with works harder and after 2 years is just needing new batteries which is pretty damn good.

>>658979
>Festo
>2nd mortgage
True. It's for professionals. When you handle a tool every day you want something without compromises, no matter if it takes 2 jobs instead of 1 job to pay for it.

>>658497
This was news to me. Thanks.

>>658996
>For example, in 2004, the net profit was US$2.1 billion, but only US$78 million was distributed as dividends to shareholders. Of that figure, US$72 million was distributed to the charitable foundation, and the other US$6 million to Bosch family stockholders. The remaining 96% of the profits were invested back into the company. In its core automotive technology business, Bosch invests 9% of its revenue on research and development, nearly double the industry average of 4.7%

>>658367
Bosch Green is relabelled as the Skil brand in the United States. Aside from their circular saws, the Skil brand is a homeowner level brand in the same tier as Black and Decker or Ryobi.

>>658689
AEG is made by the same company who owns Milwaukee.

>>658981
Its for cabinet makers who have waaaaay to much money of their hands. I'd buy a Festool track saw, but not their drill

>>658979
Hitachi is total shit I agree. Panasonic was good in the 90's but their designs are dated and clunky.

>>658959
For a week or light use? Nothing, because you're not stretching the tool.

Over a year? You'll notice that things like the chuck, clutch, trigger control and power are a bit ropey on the B&D. You may also find that the battery on the B&D is beginning to hold less charge than the Bosch.

tl;dr: B&D tends to wear out quicker because their build is cheaper.

>>658457
>Half as weak
Does this mean its twice as strong?

>>659092
if x/2 = y then x = 2*y?

>>658497
>>659002
Underappreciated posts

>have an old makita drill
>use it for years, it just werks
>buy another because i needed another
>they're both slightly stained with weird mixation of paint, moistures and sawdust
>they've been handled pretty roughly
>they just werk, all mechanical parts function just like out-of-the-box
>mfw they're as durable as crowbars in normal usage

>>659155
>implying philips is german

>>659029
True we had 3 Festool drills in college. No way were they worth the upwards to 650 they cost. They were great but not that great.

The mitersaw was kind of a let down too. It has this weird design in the fence. The space where the blade passes through in the fence had this sort of slide in, so if you ever had to cut a wide enough board on it you were guaranteed to get get kick back as the two halves would be dragged inwards and pinch the blade. Thing scared the shit out of the first time it happened. Then it happened everyone. I really can't get my head around why they made it like that. As far as I could tell it's unavoidable.
The routers and random orbit sanders are just beastly though. There is simply no comparison to other tools like them.

Since we're on the subject of Bosch though. Does anyone know if that new 10" axial glide mitersaw is coming over across the pond to Europe? or if it's even any good? I've been eyeballing the 12" version for awhile but the 1000+ bucks is too much for me at the moment and it's really more than I need. The 10" would be perfect though, if I could just get it.

there is no problem with consumer grade tools if you are a consumer except ni-mh battery and accompanied cheap slow charger.
battery dies pretty fast. and new battery is nearly as expensive as the tool itself.
li-ion/po are probably better but hard to find in consumer price range

>>659199
This is why I buy used tools. I can get a professional grade tool that will last forever for next to nothing. Why? 'Cause the battery already shit the bucket and the owner did they same thing you did; they looked at the replacement cost of a battery vs the cost of a new tool. I got a complete set of Makita 18 volt tools awhile back for $35 because the batteries were shot. Pic related, same kit but not my pic. I then rebuilt 2 batteries using lithium-ion cells and got a new charger for them. Bam, 18 volt lithium ion tools for about $100 bucks total. A new kit with that many tools retails for about $400.

>>659248
>I then rebuilt 2 batteries using lithium-ion cells and got a new charger for them.
Could you elaborate? Could you fit standard cells in there?

like a bosch

>>659250
Almost all NiCd tools, which these were, use the sub-C type of cell rated at 1.2 volts. The original batteries tended to be low amp hour types. I've seen shitty tools built with cells as poor as 1.2 Ah. 2.2 to 2.5 Ah is pretty standard these days but you can rebuild with standard NiCds above 4 Ah too if you really want to give your battery staying power.

The packs I rebuilt had 15 sub-Cs wired up together to output 18 volts. The lithium ions I used are 3.7 volts each, so I couldn't do that. Instead I wired up 3 groups of 5 2.4 amp hour cells. That got me 18.5 volts at something like 7.5 amp hours. The batteries weren't cheap. IIRC 30 of them cost me something like 75 bucks and that was on sale with free shipping. I got a smart charger for free from a buddy that was into RC stuff and had a spare. He only paid like 30 for it so they aren't expensive if you do buy it yourself.

The real issue was I couldn't find any Lithiums that were exactly the same size as sub-Cs, so I went with ones that were taller but narrower. I forget what their number was but it was something weird. It was a 4 or 5 digit number. Someone on a battery forum recommended them and they worked. There was enough space in the battery box to fit them in there and seal it all up again. Then I wired up an adapter so the Makita terminal could plug into the chargers terminal without any stray wires hanging about. That was the easiest part.

>>659269
it looks like something that will become self aware and try to kill you

>>659270
what is sub-C. I only have AA AAA C and D here

>>659275
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

>>659248
>>This is why I buy used tools. I can get a professional grade tool that will last forever for next to nothing. Why? 'Cause the battery already shit the bucket and the owner did they same thing you did; they looked at the replacement cost of a battery vs the cost of a new tool. I got a complete set of Makita 18 volt tools awhile back for $35 because the batteries were shot. Pic related, same kit but not my pic. I then rebuilt 2 batteries using lithium-ion cells and got a new charger for them. Bam, 18 volt lithium ion tools for about $100 bucks total. A new kit with that many tools retails for about $400.

And then the tools die because of heavy usage from the previous user and you have nothing anymore. That's always the risk with used tools.

>>659309
The mechanical insides of cordless drills rarely fail from overuse. Generally someone either kill the batteries or drops them and busts the case up. I've also seen a few chucks take a shit but even thats pretty uncommon and chucks are easy enough to replace. The main reason people replace these things is the same reason they replace cars; something newer and shinier comes out.

>>659332
The brushes of motors do go bad after years of heavy use. Triggers can also loose sensitivity.

>>659248
>shit the bucket
Sounds healthy to me

>>659354
Brushes are almost as easy to replace as chucks. I think I paid the princely sum of $4.99 for my last set of replacement brushes. I've only ever had to replace brushes twice. You just pop open the case and they are right there. They pop out and pop in. As for triggers I can honestly say I've never encountered that. I have several old 7.2 and 9.6 volt Makitas from the early 90's and their triggers are fine.