/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>635257
>I'm a college student who has a lot of starting capital and wants to try and make some money manufacturing things cheaply.
A cheap 3D Printer isn't going to be able to produce any parts that other people would be willing to buy. The surface finish and accuracy are terrible.

>>635300
What about a 1000$ one? That guy making the wavehooks things for the shower said he needed 1k to buy a new printer.

>>635257
Assuming you mean FDM/FFM printer from what you said. The cheap and expensive ones differ in ease of setup/maintenance, build volume, software and support. Any of them, from the cheapest to the most expensive, will require 4-20 hours of setup and tweaking, depending on your skill, luck, and whether or not you have the appropriate tools on hand. Once they're setup, there will be no discernible difference between a $300 printbot jr's output, and a $6000 Makerbot's output. With the cheap ones, you have to do things like build your own enclosure for large ABS prints to come out nicely, where the nice ones come with enclosures. Nicer filament prints better, because it has a more uniform melting temperature and dimensions. Having nice filament, the right temperature in the enclosure, and STABLE temperatures, will have more impact on the quality of the print than the printer itself (assuming both printers are using the same software, setup properly , yadda yadda).

Also, no matter which FDM/FFM printer you look at, the parts will need to be finished. They may be perfectly functional from an engineering standpoint hot off the print-bed, but they won't be pretty and ready for sale. You'll need to sand them, use a tumbler, or use an acetone vapor chamber.

>>635300
>A cheap 3D Printer isn't going to be able to produce any parts that other people would be willing to buy
That's bullshit. See above.

>>635308
Thank you very much for the info.

Actually, sanding and general touch ups aren't a problem, but I will admit that I heard bad things and am a little scared of manipulating/storing acetone.

I've also heard about smells coming of from the printer, which I anticipated. How bad is it exactly? I was looking at ABS plastic filaments.

>>635314
ABS smells like hot plastic. if you don't know the smell just melt some legos in your oven (100°C should be enough). ABS itself is NOT toxic. but cheap ABS from china can have toxic additions. you will instantly know because it won't smell like hot plastic but different.

there have been labs on ABS and they tested it to be totally safe. just google and you will find one or two of these lab tests

>>635322
Great. Is it frquent to see people who have built their own printer on /diy/? Would I get some kind of support if I was to get a problem?

>>635325
maybe. but chances are better to get help at the reprap forums

>>635257
3D printers are not for manufacturing, they are for prototyping. This is the biggest misconception of 3D printers. A 3D printer is never going to compete with a Chinese factory. Also as others have said cheap printer print quality is very bad.

So let's say I make that big beer mug, I read that I would have to use varnish or something to really seal all the tiny holes in the plastic. Since I'm gonna put hot and cold liquids in there, should I use ABS or PLA? I'm having trouble determining which one is best. They both have big downsides but also both seem to be very resistant and all that.

>>635540
no there wont be any holes in the cup as the plastic goes on melted and form a seal with the plastic its laid on ( I was given access to a 3d printer in college and decided to make a cup too)

>>635574
Not holes you can see but tiny microscopic holes that lets bacteria fuck around in the cup. Some guy who worked in some kitchen gear place seemed to know a lot about surfaces and stuff and strongly recommended putting varnish or some kind of protection to make it perfectly food safe. Last thing I want is a lawsuit (i'm not just selling cups but it will be food related for sure).

>>635308
Pretty much this. I have seen the output of a ~30000$ Stratasys FDM printer and my ~1400$ M2 compares quite well (Ignoring my missing capabiltiy of producing soulable support material)
I wouldn't suggest anyone buying printers with flimsy frames though. Structual rigidity is key for fast printing and avoiding "Shadowing" I've heard of people printing at 15mm/s. I only go that slow on verry smal pieces that actually need the time to cool down.

That is no where near enough money and you need to be able to do either solid modeling or surfacing to make printable parts.

>>635337
Rapid manufacturing is the future, 3d printers in a few years will be making mass customized good for consumers.

>>635257
>>How hard is it to set up a 3d printer and start making things with it?
Well as the saying goes in the industry, "it ain't a microwave oven"

'3d printers,' even professional ones, require constant upkeep and recalibration to keep them working. Even more so for cheap 3d printers. $500 is considered cheap.

>>635337
>>3D printers are not for manufacturing, they are for prototyping
Well the true 3d printers that use the Z-corp patented '3d printing process,' are.

Most other additive manufacturing systems like FDM, laser sintering(don't call it selective), stereolithography are used to manufacture parts that actually go in things(mostly laser sintering though).

Most airplanes and UAS's have some 3d printed whatsits and thingamabobs in them nowadays, because it's cheaper to print them than to mold them and assemble them. You can also make them lighter, which is a big deal for airplanes, because every bit of weight you remove is money in the bank.


But, it's only cheaper because they typically don't produce many airplanes. Additive manufacturing really excels at producing small volumes of high value components. If you have a high resolution 3d printer, it can even make sense to sell large volumes of small objects.


Now to answer your question OP, what do you want to manufacturer? Is it something that you aren't making much of, but has high value? Is it for a niche market? Is it something small for a niche market? If yes, then it's probably worth it.

People have made money selling products made on hobbyist 3d printers, but they have been for very niche markets. The best example I can think of is a kinect mount, it's a small plastic widget that makes a kinect mountable to a robot.

Also, avoid products that could present liability issues.Your beer mug is a bad idea, because 3d printed plastic isn't quite food safe.

>>635692
The question is what customized goods does the consumer actually want?

>>635695
Who would want a model T in any colour other than black?

>>635694
recalibration. wat? the only recalibration i ever do with my 3d printers is put new spool in it. measure thickness of material for slicing.

everything else is so robust that i never need to recalibrate anything... printing since 1.5 years
thats with a 1k euro mendel max and a custom made delta

>>635574
>>635580
yes there will be microholes if your printer is not calibrated well. there will also be microholes if you don't have enough layers.

but worst is... ABS and PLA can/will be deformable at 100°C. Enough to break your cups if you think about heating water in a microwave. It should cool fast enough if you just pour 100°C water into them...

>>635692
Unless it's really customized (like your actual face sculpted into your PC case) then simply manufacturing a selection of parts in a factory that go together to meet most customer's demands will always be cheaper.
>>635694
Yes but as you said that is for small numbers of expensive precision parts. I doubt Boeing is going to be ordering jet engine parts from OP and his $500 printer.

>>635337
Pretty much this. They are for prototyping, not manufacturing. Print a part then make a mould to mass-produce.

Regarding the point on cheap printers: I bought a prusa i3 from Makerfarm that was $500. The print quality is pretty much on par with more expensive ($2000) printers. It's all about setting it up properly, and tweaking settings to get it just right.
I pay $39 per kg of ABS from bilbycnc (ausfag), their filament is decent, they have a good range, and ship for free from their eBay store.
Regarding smell, (I haven't used PLA before, but I hear it smells like sugar) ABS smells a little weird as others stated, pretty much like melting plastic. But I've never found it really strong; I don't even air my room out when printing.

>>635694
OP here, yes that's why I'd be covering the whole thing in varnish before actually selling it to make sure the whole surface is food safe. It would be a high value product yes.

Is it simple to switch from PLA to ABS? Let's say I would make one mug in ABS because it's more solid then switch to PLA to make another.

>>635773
Yes its 5min max to change between the two.
Given you have profiles for both.

>>635775
Great. How's the business starting like? If I start selling shit online do I immediately have to become Company X and report every sale to the fiscal gentlemen?

Let's say someone emails me and says he wants one of my product, is it as simple as putting it in a box, going to the mail and bingo?

>>635718
Wait pla can be deformed at 100 degrees? Ain't that a bit shitty? Do you think that people would see the "Hey it's eco-friendly" as a good enough trade for the "don't put boiling water in it"? I mean who uses a mug for boiling water. Is tea that hot for example or does it lose all it's heat shortly after being poured?

>>635314
>smells coming of from the printer,
ABS fumes are pretty mild. Like hot plastic. PLA is technically safer, but smells odd and grassy when it's being printed. Neither are supposed to be hazardous when printed at the correct temperature, but bets are off at higher temps, or if it chars and smokes.

I've never printed with nylon, HPET, PVA, or the flexible-rubber type filaments, so no idea there, nor on resin printers. My only 3d printing experience is with FDM/FFM printers, using PLA and ABS plastic. Maybe some other anon can shed light on those?

>>635694
>require constant upkeep and recalibration to keep them working
And a constant stream of coffee or whiskey to keep the operator functioning. Depending how the day is going.

It also helps if your wife/gf is out of town. Murphy's law is effective on these devices: on a night where there is a very good chance of getting laid, it will need massive calibration; on a night with zero chance, it works like a sales demo covered in pixie dust.

>>635697

>>635804
Can't you just start the printing and play video games while it's working, keeping an eye on it from time to time?

>>635869
yes you can. thats actually what i do. or watch videos or do other stuff like sleeping... there is not much that can break. you usually just want to stop a bad print quick enough or fix it if you still can.

it all depends on your printer. i guess i could not let a prusa run for 37 hours nonstop without any errors in the print... but i can with my delta

Can someone tell me if making a cup of tea with PLA and coated with varnish would actually deform the product once the hot water is poured in the cup? People say it can warp but how much?

Oh man this printer looks great http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/details.aspx?ID=247

But it's sold by chinese and I'm scared that if it breaks I won't be able to get any support at all. Is it worth buying in your opinion?

>>635874
i would not buy that. i would go with more rigidity and current gen hardware (ramps 1.4 with arduino or a rambo board)

>>635875
I'm looking real hard on google trying to find something that has at least 15x15x15 of printing space and around 500$ but don't even know about these boards you mentionned.

Anything you'd suggest in this list? http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/

Unless the instructions are very clear on how to build it, i'd like to have it assembled.

>>635877
>i'd like to have it assembled
forget the 500$ then

>>635880
is it complicated? I'm just scared I'll fuck something up in the process. I'm not really retarded when building ikea or general house stuff but this seems beyond my knowledge.

>>635877
>15x15x15 of printing space
That's a huge build volume.

An 8" cubic build volume is considered large, and the cheapest you can find that is $700 built.

Maybe you could get that on a delta printer, but they're still considered experimental AFAIK, and will probably only be available in kit form.

>>635884
sorry i meant 15cm. 15" would indeed be quite the printer.