/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Here are resources to teach kids about Programming:

Scratch (ages 8-16):

http://scratch.mit.edu/

Codeacademy:

http://www.codecademy.com/#!/exercises/0

>>451508
>tfw I used both of those

Would recommend

>>451517

Do you use them for yourself or do you use them to teach your kids?

>>451502
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=6148&menu_id=720&menu_id2=785

Scroll down to the bottom, you now have the curriculum used for every grade and every class in the state of Texas.

Base your classes on this info.

LOL. The pic forgot to factor in the nig nog equation. Remove nig nogs from public schools, graduation rates would skyrocket.The only reason home schools have higher grad rates is because they were raised by successful people. nig nogs can't be homeschooled because their parents are either in jail, smokin dope, or at work. One thing that home schooling wont teach you, is how to deal with morons and nig nogs both of which are running rampant in our public schools. Don't be a fag OP go Public.

>>451502
http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/TX/

Be aware of your rights

Other states may have something similar

>>451533

Pure gold. Thank you, anon!

>>451545

It's actually very important to read about those issues. Thank you.

I agree that home-schooling results in smarter children; however, have you ever met someone who has been home-schooled?

>socially inept
>smelly
>introverted

>>451559
My friends were homeschooled and their parents took the middle road. They took one class at a local school and participated on the school's sports teams. They're some of the smartest people I know but they're not social retards.

>>451502
We've been homeschooling our kids for 12+ years
Here's the thing - a single curriculum is too limiting. Sure, you could copy Texas, etc., but that just takes the weaknesses of public school and puts them in your home for more expense.
.
We start the kids with Singapore math, Learn to Read in 100 Lessons, and a few other into systems, then adjust for eachtalented /diy/eras we go. Some move to Saxon Math, others to computer-based math systems, etc. Some mix this and that, others do just history for a few months, then just math, etc.
Now, if you want a total package curriculum, there are dozens of good ones for home schoolers on the market, but if you want the full impact, you have to DIY for eachtalented /diy/erto customize for them as an individual

>>451559
This is what I'd be worried about. If I were home schooled, I'd have zero of the friends I have now. All of my friends I either met at high school or I met them via people from high school.

Though I suppose if I had no friends from high school, maybe I would have made an effort to befriend people I played on sports teams with and such.

>>451559
1) Research by Shyer, taylor, Smith, and many other scientists over the last few decades demonstrates that home school kids are better socialized than public schooled kids
2) I know a lot more homeschooled kids than you do, so I can win the anecdote game, too

>>451570
Let's talk about my oldest son, 16 years old and going on 17
martial arts
hiking club
gun club
Latin study group
Teen Connect
the guys he lifts weights with
friends at church
neighbors
Plus, the local homeschooling group sponsors dances, picnics, etc. for the teens as well as group art classes, writing classes, biology labs, etc.
and some of his home schooled friends think he spends too much time at home!

Perhaps we should make list of resources by age. Starting with 6 years old.

I'd be interested in things like dual-n back and video games, as those have a background of increasing short-term memory, perceptual processing, spatial intelligence, etc.

Bump for God himself.

>>451502
I strongly recommend *against* homeschooling, since many homeschooled kids don't get socialized properly when it's most important to, and have problems later in life because of it. If your children's education being of the highest quality is important to you, then I recommend sending them to a private school.

>>451540
>nig nogs
Fuck off asshole

>>451623
Fuck off.

>>451575

... I always find it funny when people start listing off a laundry list of what they do. The reality is that they hardly do what they say, there simply isn't enough time in the day. I'd bet most of those are bi weekly or once a month affairs with others being "whenever it happens" kind of things.

>>451626
No YOU fuck off, racist piece of shit. All fucking assholes like you do is perpetuate the problem with stereotypes and hate speech. There is NOTHING to be gained from attitudes like yours, and you can fucking shove it up your fucking ass you fucking racist piece of SHIT. Go suck on a bottle of Drano.

>>451621
[citation needed] because the OP's infographic provides information contrary to this.

>>451621

While I usually agree I have a cousin who home schools her kids (granted she taught elementary school for a while). There are networks that allows the kids to socialize (they have prom and everything) together and go to other home schools to diversify.

Private schools are a great option if you have the cash. Homeschooling can be equally if not more expensive (one parent has to not work typically) and requires a heavy commitment. Like most things it's a double edged sword.

>>451637
Like parents setting up play dates for their teenagers? Excuse me while I kill myself on their behalf.

>>451636
>I get all my information from infographics posted on 4chan. Welp, better go teach my kids.

There is a blog from Children's book illustrator and author Kevin Collier. He launched the blog so parents can have access to free drawing lessons for kids. But I can't post it because it's considered spam here.

As a parent of atalented /diy/erabout to go into a totally shitty school system, the thought of home-schooling passed though my head, especially since I was almost a teacher and my wife is one. The problem is socialization, which in reality is the only reason public schooling is around. That, and to propagate "The American Life" to new generations.

In short, atalented /diy/erwho's homeschooled in a secular curriculum will be plenty smarter, but socially retarded...which in the long run is useless in a society ruled by idiots. If the curriculum comes from a church, forget it. They're good for nothing but breeding stock.

A channel with videos to learn basic Mathematics.

http://www.youtube.com/user/xkootv?feature=watch

>>451758

There are kids without social skills at school. School is unable to solve this, so that excuse is invalid. Kids can socialize out of school by doing sports, playing with kids from their neighborhood, or having weekend events with other home schooled kids.

>>451636
How about you prove your point with peer-reviewed studies from credible, reliable sources instead, because everybody knows what I'm saying is right.

>>451559
Aberage 4chan user, but dont have to socialize

>>451762
Don't use a statistical misfit in a possibly-sheltered population in school as your basis for this.
I don't mean socialize as in "hang out with Jimmy", I mean it in training a child to navigate in a constant ad-hoc caste society. The group delineations happen for every moment of your life, and removing them from the process of having to interact with it for the most formative age of life will stunt their ability to function.

>>451779

How schools help to socialize? Please explain.

Why the fuck do they not teach Riemann sums before they do basic integration, it explains the whole fucking concept.

>>451784

You see people and make friends with them. Who are you going to see at home all day to make friends with? Your mom? You should already be friends with your mom.

Doctor Raymond Moore, The Hurried Child: ""The idea that children need to be around many other youngsters in order to be 'socialized is perhaps the most dangerous and extravagant myth in education and child rearing today."

>>451797
it's also not just making friends. It's dealing with enemies, understanding in some way the politics of human interaction, learning to self-edit in a public situation (that's problem #1 with home-schoolers), and so forth.

Humans don't deal well with loners. Home-schooling does not help in training a child to operate at a social creature in a social environment. Socializing. For better or for worse.

>>451804
yea, I just googled him. The first page was shilling for his homeschool program packets, and he also was really old when he died a little bit ago.
his generation also believed that smoking was healthy, asbestos should be used as much as possible, DDT should be sprayed around the house by housewives...list goes on. Odds are he has a parochial aspect to his packets, because Jesus teaches good life skills.
Also...huh. he had something to sell, as do his scions. Sounds like a winning combination for believability.

>>451807

>Yet in this study the findings indicate that children kept home are more mature, and better socialized, than those who are sent to school.

Thomas Smedley, Master's Thesis for the field of Communications

I can go all day

Reading that white font on that yellow background gave me eye cancer and not everybody can home school their children because some people have to work for a living

>>451809
oh look, a quote from a man who died before the Great Depression. Totally applicable to modern society.

>>451772
Okay. It's on now.

Concerns regarding home schooling deficiencies are not warranted. Socialization of children in home schools is effective without exposure to large groups of children, and is more related to instructional time than non-instructional time. Home school parents are imparting positive family socialization, which is not inferior to the public school culture. Recommendations. Public school officials should be less concerned about student self-esteem in home schools, and objective measures are recommended if social development is a concern.
Source: The socialization of home-schooled and public-schooled children.
Lee, Walter James.
Dissertation Abstracts International Section A: Humanities and Social Sciences. Vol.55(12-A), Jun 1995, pp. 3743.

To everyone hating on the evidence that there's nothing wrong with home schooling, I'd like to see your sources that say it DOES affect socialization.

>>451836
dude, it's just me hating on it, and all I have is anecdotal evidence in that every single person I've known who's been home-schooled has been so with either a particularly christian bent or because they "couldn't hack it" in the public school system. Either way, trying to deal with someone who hasn't had to deal with this ultra-galvanized and polarized social society is ill-equipped with similar social issues in a workplace.

You'll have an easier time convincing me and others if you can come up with a quote from the last 5 years; the last 2 would be better. If you think that 1995 is the same youth society as now, you might as well keep on quoting Smedley.

>>451843
You'll have an easier time convincing me if you come up with a study that says otherwise. There isn't a whole lot of good research in this area, but the stuff that is there seems to favor me.

>>451849
here, skim this article like I did.
http://www.salon.com/2012/03/15/homeschooled_and_illiterate/
Hey, I'd like to find a plausible and strong argument for it, but the plain facts to me are that home schoolers gravitate around a couple of ideologies that are either anti-establishment or anti-secular in basis. I'm in northern California, and have lived in rural, urban, and suburban settings, and a strong church in the area or a patent hatred of taxes and communists is what drives home-schooling here. The third is trying to find a way to educate thetalented /diy/eron the autism spectrum or a habitual problemtalented /diy/er

Yea, you do bring up an excellent point; there isn't a lot of actual study that's accessible for the layman. A lot of it is snake-oil, in my opinion. Also, a large amount of it is from studies that are pre high-speed internet and online gaming, which has become a direct replacement for face-to-face interactions.

Ya can't put a thumb on it until society as a whole stops mutating and evolving. Personally? I would rather have mytalented /diy/er(who is at this point far past the maximum educational testing level for kindergarten and a year and a half too young for it) go through the public school system and start to understand what it is to be a human, not an individual.

>>451851
The plain facts to me is that there are a couple of scientific studies in favor, and a couple of anecdotes in opposition. I know what side of the argument I want to be on, even if I recognize that there are cases where home schooling is bad.

>>451859
To add: I'm not saying you should home school yourtalented /diy/er it's an investment of time and effort I know not everyone wants to make. I'm just saying the people who are hating on it don't seem to have a lot of ground for doing so.

>>451862
you're putting a lot of trust into old, questionably scientific studies and people trying to sell you practicum programs.

Good luck.

Also, condescension noted. Par for the course, I guess.

>>451882
I'm not putting a lot of faith in them. But I'm putting more faith in them than in anecdotes. Blame me.
I thought it was clear that I recognise the limitations of the scientific evidence, but that you have not provided anything of the sort to support your claim.

>>451884
Go to a rural or suburban book store or learning center during school hours and interact with the kids and parents. That will be your OWN anecdotal evidence.
My evidence is first-hand; I taught at one of those places. The parents were universally overbearing, the kids were precocious in all the wrong directions and I had a child removed from one of my art classes because I didn't teach tracing. Literally. The little girl was having fun in my class, and her parent removed me because I was teaching from a non-schema reinforcing point of view.

The center was built to service the local community of home schoolers who need oversight from credentialed teachers. It was awesome to be put into a situation as a pre-cred art teacher, and be forced into a para-sales situation, and being paid less than half of a first year teacher to do it.

I know several home school adults and kids. Only one is weird. Of all the public school people I know, none of them can do what the home schooled people can do.

I don't think anecdotal evidence is worth anything really, except to you personally since it directly involves you and your own personal lies about how you view the world around you.

>>451894
>lies
see? anti-social.
>several people, one weird.
so, out of less than a dozen people, one's an oddball? Not a good looking sample population.
>can't do what home-schooled can do
If your home-schooled people can apply their abilities to some sort of high-level job, good for them. Chances are, however, they're going to have a fuckload of difficulty matriculating into higher learning in the USA, or they'll just be a blowhard with a government job that "doesn't respect their capabilities but pay the bills".
At this point, we're obviously at loggerheads, and you're also resorting to character attacks.

(shrug)

I reiterate, have fun raising your retard.

>>451908
>lies
>see? anti-social.

I'm referring the to lies we all tell ourselves about everything we encounter. It comes from the idiom, "You will see only what you want to see." Case in fact, you saw that part of my post as anti-social, when it had nothing to do with socializing.

>several people, one weird.
>so, out of less than a dozen people, one's an oddball? Not a good looking sample population.

You are assuming incorrectly. It is more accurately, less than 3 dozen people.

The rest of your post again assumes the things you want to see me say. You are putting words into my mouth. You are projecting too much and reverting to ad hominems and accusing me of doing so. You are quite defensive in this respect.

Why are you so fearful of me?

NASA educational material for students:

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/index.html

More educational material for students:

NOAA:

http://www.education.noaa.gov/

USGS:

http://education.usgs.gov/

A set of links from Sky & Telescope:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/resources/internet/3304981.html?page=1&c=y

Studies are gonna say what the people who paid for the studies want them to say. And there is a lot of money to be made swindling overbearing parents who want total control over every aspect of their precious children's lives.

captcha related: disedPC cheering

Not sure if it has been mentioned but Khan Academy has some great stuff from basic maths all the way up to calculus.

>>451889
Sounds like you're pissed off about a shitty job with shitty customers. Welcome to life.

And good to know you're assuming all homeschoolers are like these dumbasses.

Also perhaps it's a good idea to create a torrent with a collection on Maths, English and other subjects

>>451967

I agree. Thank for remember us that helpful source!

>>451975

We need to state a curriculum first.

Socialization, whatever. The biggest reason for non homeschooling is time.

You think everyone's got time to spend at home teaching a child all day? Fuck no, they got jobs to work at. They have bills and rent to pay.

Homeschooling is classist as fuck because of this issue- only people with time can afford to do it; only people with money can do it. This is still true when homeschooling groups exist; one has to spend time finding and then evaluating them (and dealing with them), because there's so little regulation w/r/t homeschooling in general.

The reason there's more Engineers and Doctors and "Small Business Owners" (please. The small business I worked at was only alive because it was the only one in the niche locally; they were legitimately dumb racist assholes outside of their 'disciplines') is because they have the time/money to lose out on the income to spend all fucking day teaching some child.

Also your infographic is shit. None of the sources are connected to the facts presented, and it just looks like shit to boot. It makes assumptions from the data that can lean in other directions (most notably that it could possibly not be homeschooling, but having rich professions funding schooling that has caused this shit. Compare homeschooling to private schools instead; those are more comparable imo).

There's also that a ton of the sources in the graphic are secondary or tertiary sources (fucking CBS), or are biased sources like fucking 'finehomeschooling dot com' and the god damn Cato Institute. Where's the links to academic journals and studies? This is basic science stuff that homeschooling advocates would know if they were as hot-shit as they say they are. And not shit from the 40's, I mean recent shit.

>>451986

Even if you're right, we're still going to try Homeschooling. Is a valid option people should be free to try.

>>451982

This would be an example of themes covered:

Learn to read.
Learn to write.
Mathematics.
Geography.
Economics.
Literature.
Drawing and painting.
Photography.
Sciences.
Cooking.
Study skills.

Management.
History.
Politics.
Music.
Philosophy.

>>452003
The thing is, it's not 'free to try'. It's literally not an option for the majority of the working class, because they're too busy working.

I would be much less pissed at the whole movement if it didn't ignore the class (and therefore race and sex) issues inherent and worked to fix that, rather than just tooting their own horns so bad while ignoring that the main group that does homeschooling well is already predisposed for success. There's also some gross looking down on people who don't (or can't) homeschool that repulses me farther.

There's also the whole religious issues inherent- even private schools are subject to regulations. There's a not-insignificant group of homeschoolers who use it as indoctrination and that disgusts me, such as anyone who uses A Beka.

If homeschoolers as a group if they were subject to more regulations (unlike here in Texas! :V) and maybe tried to be a little more socially aware and less freaky-Christian/Dominionist.

Go on and homeschool, but realize that you're using a luxury most cannot afford- and if you care about it so much, maybe you should work to extend that luxury to others.

>>451629

As much as I detest his racism, he is not wrong. Minorities in general are behind Whites by a good margin in education. Their cultures do nothing to help them succeed in mainstream society. I speak not as a White separatist or with racism. I speak from experience as I am a minority myself. We need to be honest with ourselves no matter how much it breaks our politically correct perceptions.

I am going to presume that you are the same person as >>451986 and >>452044. If so, saging in protest of comments you disagree with only hurts the original poster who is seeking information. Please be an adult and continue having a conversation but without sage.

>>451699
>>I get all my information from someone's post on 4chan. Welp, better keep my kids in public school.

>>452062
>saging is for the immature!
jesus christ, his little shit fits are annoying but are you seriously implying sage automatically equals means you're not an adult? how delusional

>>451986

My, my...how erudite and educated *YOU* sound.

Home schooling isn't just what happens when someone stays home and replaces the public school system. It's a parent who makes it a priority to monitor and review their child's work every day and periodically at school. Too many parents abdicate this responsibility, citing their fatigue and weariness from 'work.'

Neither of my parents graduated from high school, and they both worked to support my brothers and sisters and myself. My Dad worked two jobs, but he always made it clear to all of us how important he thought education was, and he would always have the time to go over homework (we left it out for him when he came home) and contact our teachers.

We all have the same amount of time, it's all about how you use it. Home schoolers are leaving nothing to chance. You reasons for lack of time and the relevancy of the points you make any sense ("...it looks like shit to boot..."). Your ad hominem attacks identify your position as hollow and without substance.
Care to respond? More trivia about the rich vs. the middle class?

>>452062
lol, I'm not that guy, though I do agree with him w/r/t racism being bad.

To me it's much more class/money based than being a racial minority that correlates to there being your euphemistic "That Culture", and most minorities are poor and will remain poor. Even when a member in a poor family does succeed monetarily, they're still held back by caring for ill parents and siblings. Basically all the ~entitlement~ programs here need more money so more people can use them.

The more people that can use them and therefore don't have to work, the more homeschoolers you get. There.

(I accidentally left sage in my subject, so yeah)

Arguments against Homeschooling:

1. It's only for rich people.

That's why we have his thread. Using free resources cut costs of teaching kids. There are commercial options available and they happen to be less expensive than private school fees. There are options for everyone.

2. People won't have time.

Do parents with kids in school help their kids to do their homework? Those hours are enough to teach kids. Besides, weekends can be used to teach kids relevant themes and social activities.

3. It's classism in disguise.

People from rural communities in USA are bieng Homeschooled, and they're far from being wealthy Beverly Hills people. Same with people from Mexico, Argentina, Kenya, South Africa and other countries.

4. It's only for religious zealots.

I'm an Atheist and I like the Homeschooling idea. Christians have the biggest experience with this model, and Atheists are using it to develop their own curricula.

5. Homeschooled kids are social outcasts.

Kids socialize with their classmates only briefly periods of time besides lunch. After school, homework and helping with home labor, they have social activities with their classmates. Homeschooled kids can use time to set social activities too.

6. Nobody takes that option.

False. There are famous homeschooled people:

http://www.homeschoolacademy.com/famoushomeschoolers.htm

>>452044

There are no race or sex issues with it. It is as simple as you said; do you have the time? There are a lot of ways to get that time but most people aren't willing to do it. It has nothing to do with "class" or "money", just time. If you bothered to look at the OP picture, you'd notice the outcomes were almost identical for people of ALL classes.

I'm someone who's been home schooled the majority of my life, though I've been in both private and public school.

Feel free to pose me any questions you might have.

>>452155

Any suggestions about curricula?

>>452139
About 3.
In Argentina there are only a fewtalented /diy/erin homeschooling. Mostly in rural communities have rural school. Those school are like homes for that children, but isn't homeschooling.
Most kids walk more than 5 miles to go to school. It's really depressing watch thosetalented /diy/er because their're really poor and the schools that they have are small and doesn't have many resources than the teachers.

>>452159
>talented /diy/erin
/diy/ have word filter?
i try to write "k-i-d-s"
kids

>>452142
Time is money. Money is also time; the more you're paid, the fewer hours you have to work.

And people who aren't white, or aren't men, happen to be poorer, and therefore lack the free time to homeschool; or time at the right time (so to speak). It's pretty much that simple. That, combined with the absolute lack of a social safety net, leads to a bunch of poor, basically disenfranchised people stuck in shitty poor schools because money for schools in an area is drawn from the direct areas around it (which is also stupid); rich people flee to the 'burbs, and people who can't afford to move out get screwed. Lather, rinse, repeat.

>>452082
As in the infographic looks like shit. White on yellow should be a crime. The sources are also badly arranged and you can't tell what source goes to what bit on the chart. Which is bad. And looks a bit shit. There you go.

>>452139
>>452142
So you're saying I can work a full-time job and somehow be at home at the right time to help the child learn. When do I work, and what does the child do all day? Also, the other parent also has to work a full-time job. How do you write the schedules for that?

Both parents must be working full-time in this case to afford the apartment and living in it. How do you do that without someone going insane, from the parents to the children? I really don't get how you expect this to happen with two average incomes.

I seriously don't have a problem with the concept of homeschooling; I did it for a year. But a lot of people who have boners for it are huge jerks in one way or another (assholes, religious nutbars, lolbertarians etc) and the community is full of righteous supermoms who think they know better than someone with a masters in education. Go on and work on free sources, that's great. Whatever. Just keep on the lookout so you don't end up one of those douchebags, and realize it's a luxury. That's all.

Also watch out for Dominionists.

>>452158

You have to find the one best suited to your child's mode of thinking, and my experience has led me to believe it is often a very good idea to see what local community colleges or universities are using for their adult learning courses.

You generally want a curriculum that is pretty straightforward to understand, as I essentially taught myself everything with my mother merely acting as a supervisor.

I also highly advise educational video games for younger children.

We use Connections Academy. It's perfect for our kids.

http://www.connectionsacademy.com/home.aspx

>>452062
>If so, saging in protest of comments you disagree with only hurts the original poster who is seeking information
You're an idiot. Please, go back to whatever shit board you came from.

>>452203
I sage because I want to make a post yelling at someone else, but I don't want to bump the thread, because that would just help the OP of the thread that I don't like.

>>451559
Homeschooled kids deal with more adults than public school retards do. Therefore, homeschooled kids are better able to deal with adults (who will be their bosses and co-workers later in life--not kids).

>>451621
You have just proven yourself to know nothing about homeschooling. Homeschooled kids regularly meet with other homeschooled kids for activities.

If anything, public and private schools make it harder for kids to learn to socialize, as the teachers let bullying take place. It drives kids to become socially awkward, or even to suicide in worst-case scenarios.

>>452245
ITT: Homeschooled adults trying to pretend they fit in and plebic school adults who are tired of being around weirdos

>>451571
you know more homeschooled kids?

>bet your used to the smell by now


school isn't to make kids smart, its so that they can function like real humans in society. If OP is so worried about intelligence, tutor you kids after school. Also, I saw someone posted the Texas curriculum. My god.... the....Texas...curriculum....(intelligent design up in this bitch!)

/thread

>>452244
what a shit argument, poor if - then construction riddled with fallacies.

>MFW the contra-positive

Homeschooling (usually) provides a very consistent learning environment. The instructor is predominantly the same person, and there is less change from year/year, and class/class. Part of the traditional model includes preparing students to adapt to these changing environments. Homeschooling (and I realize I'm speaking on very general terms) does not have to spend as much time dealing with these factors and can spend more time on course content.

This has advantages and disadvantages. Again, broadly speaking, homeschooling may produce more specialized students while public schooling may produce more generalized students.

>>451508
Also minecraft with the mod computercraft is perfect for teaching people how to program. I accidentally taught my little brother lua that way.

imho: lua is a good first language and is very similar to basic.

>>452176

Thanks a lot for the link!

Teaching kids Calligraphy:

http://www.dancingpencalligraphy.com/howto-lessons.html

http://www.iampeth.com/lessons.php

Project Gutenberg. So much books to read.

http://www.gutenberg.org/

>>451502
No, no, no, teaching is NOT something that you just pick up from free resources. As capable as you may be, there's a very good chance that you'll mess up their educations.

>>452834
It's a free country and they can sperg up their kids if they want, I guess. (shrug)
I just hope they don't live near me.

Saxon math books are pretty boss. I've used it to help me through some of the rougher math I ran into in college.

>>452245
Arseholes are a fact of life. Sheltering your precious little snow flake from bullies is not setting them up to deal in the real world.

>>451502

What do you guys think about Kumon Method?

>>452934
As if the real world allows people to beat the mortal fuck out of each other in the workplace.

Teaching a child to be civil and intelligent isn't treating them like a special snowflake. It's preparing them for success in life.

>>452834

As opposed to teachers that could not care less about your child, develop a jaded sort of hatred for them after their first few years, and see it as "just a job"?

>>452976
Still trained. There needs to be a better metric for evaluating teachers, I"m with you there.

Did you have an experience? I had one too. Want to compare abuse dolls?

>>452960
>As if the real world allows people to beat the mortal fuck out of each other in the workplace.

As if kids get beat up in public schools these days, it just doesn't happen. Unless your child has bad social skills he probably won't suffer particularly bad bullying at all.
And the workplace isn't where this stuff happens obviously. Though you may well have to deal with aggressive assholes on the street or in clubs, yourtalented /diy/erwill need to learn to deal with bullies and douche bags in later life and there's no better place to do that then at school.

>>452930

Thank you for the tip. They're not expensive.

>>452086
>To me it's much more class/money based than being a racial minority that correlates
>To me
try finding objective studies that have been corrected for external variables rather than forming opinions based on your feelings

there's information out there if you look hard enough, including evidence that blacks get more education spending than anyone else and still end up failures

Academic Earth has nice videos.

>>452044
Go and drive that car, and realize you are using a luxury most cannot afford...
Go and eat that meat and realize...
Go and use that first-world salary and realize...

MOOCs people. It's the 20th century. Stanford is doing one with a game premise called Hippocrates Challenge that teaches anatomy and physiology. Go to MOOClist.

>>453352
/pol/ much?

Objective studies factor in class and money, and show that class impacts success more than any other factor. The problem with minorities is the fact that they've been shut out of opportunities that were available to whites for the majority of US history. This, coupled with the fact that the greatest determiner of the class of an individual is the class of their parents, means that the issue is trans-generational, and still present even with progressive reforms. So the middle and upper class members of minority groups do just fine, it's just the majority of that minority is still dealing with the mistakes of the past.

>>451540
Home schooled blacks perform as well as home schooled whites. The problem is public education, not "nig nogs."

Logo language is great to tech kids about Computers.

>Logo

It's year 1980 again.

>>454649
Pfft. In the early to mid-80s computer mags were filled with articles and ads about Logo apps and even Logo-programmable drawing robots. Then around 86-87 the world collectively realized how dumb that was and it all disappeared overnight.

>>454471
It's funny. As legislation has removed more and more power from teachers hands, more people who aren't fringe weirdos are trying their hands at homeschooling, mainly because it seems they want a more specialized way to handle their precious little snowflake. I wonder how the NCLB parents would handle pre-framework education and corporal punishment? I imagine it'd be like their precious little snowflake was being tortured to death.

>>451502
There are several things at play here that homeschool advocates won't tell you about:

Homeschooling is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of families costing about $40,000 a year. That is far more expensive than private schools that cost around $10,000 a year.

There is an active effort to dismantle public schools that is largely responsible for the decay/stagnation of the system. It is similar to a situation where a business has two owners, and where one owner is actively trying to drive the business into bankruptcy.
This is the NUMBER ONE problem with public schools in the United States and the reason for the growing difference between us and other developed nations. Home schooling will not fix this problem.

Homeschooling requires a full-time person who is disciplined, focused, and driven. There are many parents who do not have these qualities.

That being said, if you're in a position where you can homeschool your kids, I'm genuinely happy for you. However don't think that gives you the right to strip education away from the people who can't afford it.

>>454692
Nigga wut?
40K a year? Get the fuck out. Hiring tutors and sports activities, museum memberships, etc do not cause 40K. I home school my kids and you're full of shit.

>>454707

Cost-benefit analysis. In addition to expenditures you also have to calculate the amount of money lost one parent not working.

If parent A and B work at 50k a year each and spend 10k a year on one child to go to private school they net 90k for everything else.

If parent A works at 50k a year but parent B stays home to home school they gross 50k a year.

>>454692
>Homeschooling is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of families costing about $40,000 a year.

LMFAO

10/10 good trolling to you sir.

>>454707
>>454718
>>454719
Cost of opportunity mother fuckers. If you are the kind of person who can successfully homeschool people, you are sacrificing a professional career with an average salary of $38,000 a year. Tack on the extra thousand or so it costs per child and you're looking at an average of $40,500 every year.

The vast majority of American families cannot make this sacrifice.

>>454692
Uh. I don't advocate homeschooling at all but my mother taught both me and my sibling for less then 300 a year.

Calvert, one of the best most accelerated that had me at pre algebra and a college grade reading in second grade, was only 500-600 dollars a year for an ENTIRE curriculum ( work books teachers guides that teach you to teach, fuck ton of supplys flashcards EVERYTHING YOU FOR A ENTIRE SCHOOLYEAR) And wasn't dramaticly religous.

Switched on schoolhouse from alpha omega was only about 400-500 a year for the entire curriculum on the computer. No teacher required. You could pay more for online teaching IRC rooms tho. Heavily religious, annoyed me.

This prices are brand new, my mother got everything second hand for hundred or less for an entire school year. That's ton less then most counties are charging for the bus in my area.

And yeah, I'm 22. This is my writing skills after getting fucked over by public school after calvert.

>>454692
. I cant argue with your other points. My mother was ill suited to be a teacher and a parent for that matter even though she tried. But no fuck no my dad made half of your quoted figure. i dont know if you pulled out of your ass or got from fox but its total bullshit

>>454732

Not that guy but it's called an 'estimate' I guess your mom was a shitty teacher. That said the average income for an adult in the US floats more around 30-35k a year. The median is more like 40-45k though.

>>454726
My wife never had a career to begin with. I work mostly from my home office. Not everyone wants to work for someone else. And you're not taking taxes into account, the amount of money you have to pay for child care if both parents are working, and other miscellaneous costs.

>>454692
>However don't think that gives you the right to strip education away from the people who can't afford it.
You're full of shit. It is public school advocates who try to strip home schooling rights away from us. Home schooling advocates say that home schooling is good and healthy and is a superior alternative to public and private school. Public school advocates want to send home schooling parents to prison.

>>454732
I'm assuming it's suggested for a "well rounded" education, matching something that children would have access to in public school. people who want to homeschool their children aren't usually interested in a well rounded education, so they can do away with things like outdoor activities, professional development, field trips, and other activities public schools do for their kids. That figure may account for having to pay for tutoring or proctoring by credentialed teachers too, which is actually a legal situation in California at least. Again, people who homeschool probably aren't going to pay much attention to that, or go through a church who'll just red-stamp in through.

Yes, homeschooling can work out just fine if all the proper channels are followed, but it's practically a guarantee the channels won't be.

God help you if you plan on matriculating into a college. Best do what your parents planned for you to do and pray really hard for a job.

>>454735

If it works for you that's great (might even be a bit Jelly) and don't fool yourself that you're not working for anyone unless you're off the grid substance farming. That said in the vast majority of cases it's still cheaper to do private school unless you have a fuckton of kids or some coop homeschooling program where one of you only have to teach a small amount and could still work.

>>454738
not prison, just practicum classes. I know I know, classrooms are prisons to you wild, untamed folk.

>>454736
The median is actually $39,336, the average is $42,693.

>>454740
Seeing how I tested into a very well known uni with some remedial classes near me when i was 17 i'd say it worked fine other then my other deficiencies that i dropped out over.

Pray for a job? Unlike most of the unemployed faggots, I find work without an issue. and I'm currently working 2 jobs. Shitty yes but hard to find work? At all? not in the slightest.

>>454756
Forgot my trip

>>454756
First of all, you're not American, so you're on a different scale. You also have to go through a bunch of remedial classes to get in, which I didn't. In fact, my public school (considered a shitty on in the area), had a program I used to take and clear all the remedial english college-level courses so I didn't have to deal with them. They had that for all the subjects, but I only made use of the english one. For free, I might add; I only had to pay for the actual test to get into the class.

What deficiencies screwed you up that you had to drop out of college?

Do your jobs have anything to do with your chosen field of study in college before your flamed out and failed?

>>451502
Every last person I've ever met who was "home schooled" was a fucking weirdo. Don't be a dick and do this to your kids, dude, get a 2nd job and send them to a quality private school instead.

>>454786
this thread has been a whole lot of people saying the same thing to a handful of screaming shit-covered savages. Tinfoils gotta have a hobby, so why not fuck up their kids?

>>454790

Public school can also be fine as long as you're willing to be a good parent active in your children's lives.

Everyone expects the government to do everything for them these days.

>>454742
Nice try.
>>454786
And every public schooltalented /diy/erI've ever met has been a violent, lazy, illiterate asshole.
Go ahead and ignore the studies that show home school kids are better socialized than home school children. Ignore that home school children perform better than public and private school children. Ignore that white and black home school students perform equally well. Ignore that poor home school children and "rich" home school children perform equally well. Public schools seem to be a place of discrimination, blame low performance on "nig nogs" and not on the shitty racists/classicists teachers.

>>454786
>>454807

So do you want:

A). A street smart but uneducated violent child that can interact with other but mostly in a negative way. Can function in a moderate to bad environment but can't hold a job.

B). Highly educated, selfish, stuck up brat. That's out of touch with the real world and thinks their better then everyone but has trouble functioning in anything outside of a like minded society.

C). Moderately educated, socially inept weirdo full of fundamentalist ideas that can't function outside of a family or church environment.

>>451508
http://roblox.com.com - Good for learning Lua

>>454813
Funny how all three are found in public schools.
Keep ignoring that Home school children are better academically and better socially. Keep believing your bullshit lies.

>>454827
http://roblox.com I mean..

>>454829

It's called a joke. I was making fun of the sweeping generalizations for all options. At the end of the day what you put into your kids is what you get out of them.

>>454831
>put into your kids
Homeschooling has a high percentage of incest.

Sourceforge has Free Software projects focused on Education. Celestia, for example, is an application for real-time 3D visualization of space.

>>451559
Felicia Day? :/

I don't know if it's been posted yet, since I'm not going to dig through uninformed opinions, but here's a site that basically sends you a curriculum, and all materials needed.

K12.com

And just to add to the, "Homeschooling is bad because your kids will grow up to be reclusive and weird," discussion... School is for learning. Not socialization. When your kids are more concerned with what clothes so-and-so is wearing, that's when yourtalented /diy/eris just learning to judge people by their appearances, rather than their curriculum.

Extracurricular activities are fine, and some public schools will allow homeschooled kids to join their sports teams, and they do get the socialization they need, without the drama of, "OMG, BITCH IS TOTES FLIRTING WITH MY BOYFRAN."

I went to public school, and I'm choosing to homeschool my daughter. My husband takes over science and math when we get to the high school levels, and I'm doing everything else. It works for us, and my daughter is perfectly social. She has Tae Kwon Do and Kindermusik classes, and these are things that she can apply to real life.

While the public school kids are doing the same thing, plus beating the shit out of each other and basically being little shits. And if yourtalented /diy/erisn't, they're a target.

It's fucked up, but that's what public school has become. :/

I wish I was homeschooled public education destroyed me.

>25 year old NEET male with no job experience, living with my parents, and socially retarded.

Public schools are fucking terrible. Especially inner city schools.

>>451502
Inner city public schools bring those statistics down by a lot. Also, children who are home schooled don't socially develop properly. It can cause more problems in the future. You have to decide whether or not you want your child to be happy with an average education or socially inept with a slightly better education (assuming you live in a nice area).

>>454964
26 here

>>451559
Hey. I'm not smelly.

That said, yeah, it left me pretty socially inept, and I'm a massive introvert. It's probably the reason I'm on the way to wizardry.

Unless OP has well-established social networks and already has plenty of outlets for his kids, homeschooling is a terrible idea. There's nothing like school for forcing kids to socialize and develop proper social skills, something that I never had.

OP, please consider the negative consequences before homeschooling your children. It is EXTREMELY important that your child is able to socialize with other children. If you absolutely must homeschool your child, MAKE FUCKING SURE they have other ways to socialize and are able to learn more than just what you teach them. Sheltering a child can cause them severe mental damage.

>>454962
If you truly love your child, you should put them in public school. I don't know what makes you think all kids are so horrible. Giving kids the freedom to play and interact with each other is vital to their development, and it sounds like your child isn't getting nearly as much of that as they need.

>>452163
If you work 8 hours a day, and sleep 8 hours a day, what are you doing for the rest of the 8 hours?

You would be surprised what you can learn in four hours if you try. That doesn't include free time on the weekends assuming you are a 9-5'er

>451502
MIT and Stanford have free courses, even graduate level courses can be downloaded.
khanacademy has a shitload of videos for learning all types of subjects
You could also try University of Reddit, yeah yeah I know

>>451502
MIT and Stanford have free courses, even graduate level courses can be downloaded.
khanacademy has a shitload of videos for learning all types of subjects
You could also try University of Reddit, yeah yeah I know

>>455491
>If you truly love your child, you should put them in public school.

you are a very bad person

>>455491
public school was like that show Survivor, only we could actually beat the crap out of each other and get away with it, and the teachers would just plain lie

>play and interact? stfu

>>453004
>As if kids get beat up in public schools these days, it just doesn't happen.
My mother's a teacher and a bulliedtalented /diy/errecently flipped out and beat his bullies face into a bloody pulp.
I went to school in the ghetto and there were regular fights, a friend got attacked with a chain on the staircase.
I was waiting for the bus and two people discussed jumping me within earshot.
I typed in school beating and this was the second result.
http://www.wthr.com/story/19730985/parents-file-suit-over-rush-county-middle-school-beating
You could probably spend a few seconds finding a whole mess of reports on violence in schools.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/earlyshow/living/parenting/main20120466.shtml

>>451805
Take him outside to play with the kids on his block you retard, I still can't believe this socialization argument keeps getting trotted out.

How many suicidal loner outcasts exist in high schools? Did schools cure them of their social problems? They're not a rarity either there's a group of them in every god damn school, you think they're really happier at school then with people who love them and can treat them fairly?

They're more likely to suffer long term psychological damage, retreat into themselves, or harm themselves then they are to magically toughen up and learn to expertly navigate social situations. They're not being allowed into the social groups so the only lesson they'll learn is that sometimes people are huge fucking jerks, a lesson they can easily learn at any job fucking ever.

>>453004
damn you're dumb

why do you think kids shoot up schools? because you turn it into a cruel social darwinian, evil, heartless, soul-less, be a future 'corporate bitch' environment

you don't have to actually get physically beat up... that would EASY compared to the psychological and spiritual torture that is public school

>>454967
>Inner city public schools bring those statistics down by a lot.
Provide the adjusted statistics that show public schooling to be superior and then in return I'll ask you to adjust home schooled kids to remove fundamentalist nutjobs and farm kids to fix their rate.
>Also, children who are home schooled don't socially develop properly.
Prove it.
>It can cause more problems in the future.
Based on your unfounded assumption that they can't socialize.
>You have to decide whether or not you want your child to be happy with an average education or socially inept with a slightly better education (assuming you live in a nice area).
False dilemma, they can be happy, smart, and social.

>our public schools are shitholes and full with niggers who dont want to learn a damn thing
>how do we improve the situation
>LETS JUST LET EVERYONE DO HOMESCHOOLING
Are you for real

>>456120
Where do I sign up?

>>456120
More lies, some people just want to guarantee that their child gets the best education whether it's by homeschooling or by private school. It's not a prescription to cure the education system of america it's simply a rejection of it.

I remember public school.....

Elementary school:

+ A girl kicked another girl in the face because "she was annoying".
+ School wide initiative to ban pokemon cards because kids would steal them from each other...

Middle school:

+ alot of bullying all around me...

+ I almost got into 2-3 fights because of idiots trying to fight me....

+ The school actually had a fight once a week (half were girls fighting girls surprisingly)

+ I started becoming depressed....looking back it was because I hated school

High school#1:
+ Rampant racism all around me, alot of bullying around me.

+ My friends at the time actually were bullying atalented /diy/erpretty bad (they would even go to his house and mess with him sometimes)

+ I was racially bullied for a little while...

+ I almost got into a few fight myself

+Slight depression continues..

(we moved to a new area)

Highschool#2

+Girl brings a bat to school and beats pregnant girl because "he is my man you whore!"

+Kid get caught by staff and gets kicked out of school forever because he had a shit ton of weed in his locker and was selling it to everyone at school.

+I am offered drugs for money a few times...

+My depression goes away once i accept my feelings of hating my surroundings of school (i count down the days to when it is over)

+We always had a police officer in the cafeteria....

+When i graduate a handful of girls are pregnant....

In general:

+I suck at all math because i was just pushed through and at my young age didn't give a shit...

Conclusion:
If i didnt come from such a good, supportive family would have probably ruined my life from all the chances i was given to....


oh and i went to pretty normal schools....They were no inner-city and were actually funded well (half the schools were in very nice upper middle class areas too)

nj/diy/er here

a lot of parents are actually homeschooling their kids and they do socialize .

people arguing for public schools....do you think that the kids are just locked in the basement?

>>456189
in the wild west out here in California, homeschooling is usually a tool of a parent who doesn't like the community or society they're in, or to help a child who can't function around other people. Most statistically "normal" families will have their children work out just fine in public, private or charter school, or a technical academy. Homeschooling is usually the tool of someone who's failed to function in any of the other choices.

>>456192
>Homeschooling is usually the tool of someone who's failed to function in any of the other choices.

liar. homeschoolers consistently outperform government indoctrinated kids in every metric

>>456192

Historically homeschooling is done by the extremes of society...the crazy parents and the smart parents.

But consider this....Do you think the rich and powerful elite don't home-school there children? Sure they can pay for a tutor but one should copy the successful. Public school is for the plebs. If you have some money you go with small class private schools, if you are a average earner with a good education you should do homeschooling. If you are poor or an idiot you send your kids to public school and hope they survive with as little damage as possible.

>>456193
government...indoctrinated. Got it. Stay on your side of the fence please, outier.
>>456197
oh yea, I agree with you on this. The charter school is a good balance in the fed-spec education and a more fully-funded classroom. Unfortunately charter and private schools suffer educationally due to outside pressures on the teachers and the need to teach information that follows more in line with where the donations come from. Private schools can hire non-credentialed people, so instead of a merit-based system, it just devolves into nepotism, and flawed practicum that comes with it.
Let me flash a little nerd for a second and suggest Prole instead of Plebe. Plebians were free outsiders in Rome, versus Proletaria being the non-landed lower class from Rome.

I learned that in public school, btw.

>>456199

i did not learn that in my public school.....i don't think Rome was much of a discussion to be honest. Maybe a small amount in middle school when we went over the old world in history class

>>456199
Not them, but public school is "indoctrination" that everyone seems to call "adjustment". Are children maladjusted and need to be "adjusted" by public schools?

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/index.htm

I don't see the reasoning behind the hate for homeschooling.

I got into a fight in school where anothertalented /diy/ersmashed my head into the wall multiple times.

Unless you can afford private school and/or live in the right zip code then school will be shit for your kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqCtIL9ZPSQ

Guys, homeschooled kids aren't socially fucked at all. Totally normal.

>>456522
>/x/

>>456668

>autocorrect in addition to not proofreading...


*anothertalented /diy/ersmashed my head into the wall multiple times.

>>456682
<brtalented /diy/erbr>
talented /diy/erbr>
(k-i-d)

testing this shit

>>456668
>>456682
>>456683

well fuck k_I_d gets filtered.....

>>456685
k-i-d is, but kids isn't for some reason. I guess the troll was only picking out one person to target instead of a thread.

Many of those Homemaker Blogs online post free homeschooling resources like printables, worksheets, and fun activities for younger students. websites like confessionsofahomeschooler.com and similar sites are great places for Preschool through young gradeschoolers. A trend to be aware of, many homeschoolers do this because of religious beliefs, so many of the free resources out there are going to have at least a little "Christian" influence to them. They also seem to post a lot of crafts, recipes, and other traditionally "housewife" things.
I also reccommend utilizing free educational resources like the https://www.khanacademy.org/

>>456102
Do you have children?

My 9 year old goes to a charter school. It's good shit. They aren't in the teachers union so if a teacher isn't living up to the schools standards they boot 'em. The schools focus is the Arts and Technology. She has a different elective ever day. Monday is art, Tuesday computers, wednesday is drama, Thursday is dance and Friday is PE. When they hit 5th grade they choose one of those electives to focus on and they get an extra hour a day focusing on it. They also take a "life skills" class once a week where they learn how to be good people, make friends, be a good friend and how to spot someone in need and aid them. They receive life skills awards rather than "student of the month." a few months ago my daughter got the award for perseverance.
I could seriously go on forever about how amazing it is. We started out kindergarten in a public school where my daughter was the only white girl amongst an ocean of Mexican kids who made her life hell. The teachers hardly knew the kids names half way into the middle of the year and the only thing my daughter learned is that "blonde hair is ugly" because that's what all the Mexicans told her. Fuck public schools. If you don't have charter schools in your town HOMESCHOOL is the only option.

>>456736
Friday is music... my mistake! They have PE daily.

Also small class size (22 kids) and 2 classes per grade level.

>>456736
How much does it cost?

Im 17 and we are moving, my parents are thinking of homeschooling me when we get there. i not against the idea. im in my second last year of school. How effective would it be and what would be the disadvantages to; say if i was home schooled now

>>456736
See this is what I like, privatizing education but still having some gov support. In my city however, were just starting this and the schools so far are shit, even shittier than the public ones which are supposedly the shittiest.

>>456204
>public school
>have to read 2 books about the Holocaust every year
>never read a book about Rome

And people argue public school isn't indoctrination .

>>457433
In middle school they forced us to read and do book reports on novels that were about anybody BUT white people. Well, they didn't put it THAT way, but the books we picked had to be centered around a foreign culture, and apparently European didn't count. That by itself wouldn't have bothered me, but the bookshelf we had to pick from was LOADED with novels about native Americans and Africans and mostly took place in (get ready for the shocker) the colonial era! That's right, most of our "cultural awareness" books were just novels written from the perspective of a brown person watching his/her village get slaughtered by white people.

White. fucking. guilt.
It's disgusting.

If OP is still around:
I too am very interested in Homeschooling. How might I get in contact with you privately?

>>457497
You should've done Russian.

>>457614
Arab would have worked as well but I don't think they into English much

Some kids with learning disabilities might find Homeschooling beneficial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPhcuvPn6L4

What do you guys think of learning at home as a supplement to public/private schooling?
Kind of like what Japan does with cram school, except at home.
I don't want mytalented /diy/erto be suffering under the same system as every othertalented /diy/erin the event that the system really is that bad.
I'd specialize in programming and math because they kind of go hand in hand. Like that saying "If you can't teach a computer to do it, you don't understand anything at all."

>mfw single

>>452260

>your

I was homeschooled because the public schools in my region were retarded wigger factories, and because my parents are all fucked up on Jesus. Most of the kids I knew outside my neighborhood/church were also homeschooled, mostly by people who hadn't graduated high school. (My parents were graduates) It was nice to finish school in two hours and spend the rest of the day reading or playing or doing personal projects like building shit and exploring the hills. It wasn't so great that I wasn't allowed to finish grades early and start community college early like I wanted, or that my mom and dad fucking suck at >7th grade math and brought in creationist science curriculum. Honestly, most of my homeschooled friends had a far worse experience than I did because their parents either couldn't afford materials or had only 8th grade educations themselves. Or were just shitty, lazy bitches.

>>457668
cont.
You get out of it what you put in. Most families I knew needed help and were too proud or paranoid to seek it out.

Nevertheless, among the 7 people I kept in contact with including myself, there are 5 AA's, 3 BA's, and one master's in progress. The 6th guy got into drugs at 14 and didn't get his GED until he was like 27. Same for the 7th, who is still studying for his GED at 24 (he was never really expected to do his schoolwork). Two of them are still obnoxious conservative Christian shitheads, one is gay, one is obviously gay but will probably be in the closet forever, one is dyslexic and has learning disabilities, at least 3 have moderate to serious mental illnesses (probably all of us, to be honest), one is married, one unemployed, three employed part-time only, one became a pastor, one is still going to university. Only one of us makes more than $22k/year, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure one is some kind of sociopath.

>>457669
cont.
I knew a lot of homeschooled kids, mostly fucked up dysfunctional Christian families who moved in and out of my hometown.

Most of the public school-educated kids I knew in my grade/middle school years were illiterate until 5th grade at least. There were a lot of meth labs in the area beginning in at least the mid-1990's. I didn't have a lot of friends in my neighborhood after maybe 5th grade because all the kids were retarded little bitches.

My education had a lot of problems, but at least I learned some history, basic science, and how to fucking read and write. That's more than I can say for many of my peers back then

I think >>457633 has the right idea. That's what I wanted when I was atalented /diy/er a few classes at a school and most of the work done at home. College lectures were a real treat for me, but it was a little hard to get used to the structure.

>>451502
This infographic is stupid; Top 3 professions (lists multiple professions per category).

It's ironic that something preaching the superiority of homeschooling was published by someone who has trouble with simple statistics.

>>451502
"Students progress has been STAGNANT since the 1970s"

Yeah, a 25% increase isn't stagnation.

>>457668
>>457669
>>457670
>>458494
>>458495
We need to stop bumping this fucking thread. The aggressive homeschool douchebags in this thread are never, ever going to listen to someone else's point of view on the subject.

>>458503
Sarry, will sage ^_^'