/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1923482
Wood is more readily available and cheaper than concrete.

>>1923482
we use both wood and concrete. as with any construction, it depends on location, environmental factors, local regulations, and cost.
my question to you: why do you care so much about what americans do?

>>1923482
>Why do Americans use Wood to build houses?
Because they have a lot of wood?
>Why not concrete?
More expensive than wood?

>>1923482
Max profit at minimum cost.
They like to pay way more for a chopsticks cabin than we pay for properly engineered homes.

>>1923517
>not caring about things
Is this an American thing? not caring about anything and watch life pass meaningless until they die? I guess that's why you pay for overpriced garbage...

>>1923482
When we use wood, we also put insulation, plumbing and wiring inside, and cover with a wallboard, usually drywall.
When you use concrete, how do you handle these things?

>>1923482

>>1923541
wouldnt it be easier to do insulation with concreate?

>>1923482
It all depends on location. Where I live, it is all block construction, but many places with shifting soils or earthquakes require wood construction as it won't fail due to these factors. The US is very large so there are numerous different building techniques depending on the requirements, that's how engineering works. Ignore the butthurt sadist who feel the need to shit in Americans for not understanding the variances in buildings needs of a country several times larger than all of Europe , which includes desert climates, tropical regions, extremely cold areas, mountain terrain, and more.

>>1923549
Concrete isn’t a good insulator. It conducts heat very readily. It’s also a thermo mass ( eg stays hot, after a hot day ). We want to heat or cool the air readily, and not suffer from walls that stay cold or hot.

>>1923555
tell that to the sewers mother fucko. Always cool in the sewer.

>>1923555
what are fuckin big tall apartments made out of?
wood?

>>1923575
concrete foundation, metal beam frame, then wood for flooring and walls
you don't get into construction by showing up and questioning the experienced guys calls, that's for sure lol

>>1923482
>Why do Americans use Wood to build houses?

Wood is cheap and easy to build with.

>Why not concrete?

Ironically requires wood forms to be built to pour the concrete into. Takes longer and more man power. Harder to install the rest of the parts required in the house. Also looks like shit when it's done.

Most american houses are built on a concrete foundation. Most houses in Florida and many in the southwest are built from cinder block which is a good compromise between the two.

>also im 20, how do i get into construction

Apply for a job in construction? I went to work for my uncle.

People don't understand the costs of building a house. Here in FL just the government permitting and impact fees alone are $20-25K. Plus costs for the land and site development...you've spent $100k before you even start digging for footers.

>>1923541
Just like a condo, you have non-load bearing framed walls butted up to the concrete or foamboard and wood screwed to the concrete.

>>1923531

We save so much money that 20,000 people won't die because it was hot and our doctors were all on vacation. Enjoy your shitty homes and heatstroke, france!

>>1923482
Why not Crystal? Why not graphene? Why not aerogel? Why not pebbles and clay? Why not sod?

>>1923482
So, OP, after all these posts, I’m still not clear on what kind of concrete construction you’re comparing the wood house to.
?

>>1923541
Eastern Europe here
>old polish/german houses
Full random, could be wood, could be brick, could be concrete, if it was communal then sometimes there is designated canal for wires and pipes, but how everything runs from the canal to the flats is full random and often you have to drill the walls.
>commie blocks
Made of big panels and concrete, no insulation in default, only like decade or two ago people started to cover it with styrofoam and plaster. Plumbing is just one big pipe running through all the floors where flats share walls and you can hear your neighbors farting on the toilet. Electrics are hit or miss, sometimes decent, sometimes have to drill the walls.
>modern housing
Designated canals for all the pipes and wires so you had good access to it when needed, if ceiling is hanging type then wires and pipes can run there, insulation either by styrofoam + plaster or some other method used at the point of finishing construction.

>>1923575
Now days, Yes.

>>1923555

Checked

Closed cell foam cladding on the outside of the concrete. Then the large thermal mass acts as a ballast for internal temperature.

>>1923482
Because America is a third world country wearing a Gucci belt

>>1924069
thats fucked up

>>1924142
You don't see the good side: you can burn all basedboys and chinks at once.

>>1923482
Nz here, we use mostly wood because it lasts longer. Steel framing is becoming more popular though I don't understand why. Our country is a fault line, concrete cracks.

>>1923541
see the holes on the brick?
yeah... not even joking...

>>1924336
That would take hours to wire and plumb a modern sized house.

>>1924427
it takes days

>>1924336
No way, show proof

>>1923575
Metal and concrete, with cladding outside

>>1923482
The foundation is made of concrete and usually anything structural is made of steel or reinforced wooden beams.

Wooden frame houses are way more versatile too. Super easy to move walls, wall mount TVs, etc.

Wood is also a good insulator and most of the US gets very cold. I've lived in concrete apartments in the winter and even with insulation they are still extremely drafty and cold.

If properly taken care of wood houses can last for centuries just like concrete houses. And it's not like you see houses collapsing in the US ever. This "ThEy MaKe tHeiR HouSeS oUt oF WooD?" argument is stupid.

test

>>1925227
Unless you live on the tornado zones, wood houses are alright.

>>1923531
>Is this an American thing? not caring about anything and watch life pass meaningless until they die?
yes. have you not noticed how they all get a new phone, computer, car, house, etc. every 3 years or so? nothing americans make or use is meant to last

>>1925253
It really doesn't matter what your house is made of in a natural disaster

Do we really need keep doing this? We literally have this thread every single day.

>>1923482
Apply for job as general labour on a masonry, framing, concrete or brick crew. Be reliable, work your way up. Add talents along the way especially heavy machine operation. If you dont waste all your pay on booze or pain pills eventually you will be leading your own crew.

>>1923619

Come to parts of canada where it is 100k just in permits, and municipality a charge more for engineering reviews the engineering consultants do for the design themselves.

>>1925260
That's really the only time it matters.

>>1924321
Cuz steel framing is faster and better than wood

>>1925265
>If you dont waste all your pay on booze or pain pills eventually you will be leading your own crew.

This isn't the case. People who waste money on booze and other shit lead crews

>>1924336
and what kind of λ value do you get from that? my bet is pretty crap.

>>1923482
Normal answer:
Most municipalities will not let you build something that the cops can't burn you out of. Simple as.
Poured concrete, concrete slabs, earthen walls... shit, I've seen demos where they ground up old tires and mixed them with epoxy and filled wallforms with it and it's more resilient, more durable, and more energy efficient than wood & insulation.

Conspiracy answer:
The US, as a country, has been financially insolvent almost since its inception. Nixon created the EPA in the early 70s as a department to supposedly protect America's natural resources - forests, wetlands, mountains, deserts, etc.
If you look at a map of EPA protected lands (either directly, or through the National Forest Service/Parks dept., etc., a lot of it is in the middle of bum fuck nowhere. But a lot of it is absolutely prime real estate, too.
Theories have it the the EPA is a guarantor of the USA's last remaining bargaining chip - its untouched natural resources - and that these resources have been leveraged against our national debt since the 70s. Millions of acres of timber. Uncounted tons of coal. Probably veins of precious metals. Countless barrels of oil. And, what will end up as the most precious of all, untapped reservoirs of fresh water.
But all that land has been promised out already. To the French, the British, probably the ragheads and Israel, and definitely to the Chinks. So our leaders started leveraging against developed land as well.
But what good is developed land that can't be "undeveloped" ore "re-developed" into something more aesthetically pleasing to the new owners?
Thus, you can only build "approved" structures on land that "you" "own". Approved, as in readily-destroyable. If your existence can't be erased from the land in a weekend by a team of Chinese repo-men, the land isn't usable as an IOU on our national debt.
</conspiracy>

>>1926093
Jesus fuck this is shitposting

>>1926093
keep wearing the tinfoil hat

I don't have to build a house out of anything when i can live in half of europe rent free

>>1923482
Why do Finnish use wood to build entire cities?

Maybe it just happens to fuckin work?
https://youtu.be/L4QYkEpw9pA

>>1926190
>>1926113
This isn't wrong. Zoning is a massive issue in most cities and most cities will not zone for new builds. They only allow renovations. Residential is really the only new build and the zoning is nuts and why houses cost 40-80k more than they need to. As per the wood building material....Its trash always has been. Its simple and fucking mongrels can frame a house. 16-24 spread and maybe two or 3 other tricks to frame a house. The fact that most house don't depreciate in value is fucking nuts. It has so very little to do with land.

T. Journeyman bricklayer 7 years, Master electrician 6 years, Civil engineer 15 years. The trades are very good for people but the officials in local, state and federal are corrupt as fuck.

>>1926931
Because Finns are retarded and poor mongols.

>>1923491
>cheaper than concrete.
fire hazard. degradation. concrete is forever. even my roof is concrete

>>1926093
>>1927042
Good posts

>>1927067
A lot of North American homes are gutted and remodeled every 30-50 years anyways. Shit doesn't need to last forever. Most people don't want to be walking around a stone castle/dungeon with candlesticks and shit.

>>1927453
Actually this. Do you really need house to last, idk, 1000 years? Hell no.
Wood stud frame would last, idk 100-150 years. Do you really need more? Isn't it easier to bulldozer the shit, and build new, straight and plum house instead of dealing with old semi-rotten shit or wall that aren't plumb?

>>1927067
There are amish houses made completely out of wood that have been there for over 200 years

>>1923482
>ton of fucking trees
Seriously we just have fucking forests and forests worth of trees

>>1927042

>Oh we denied the permit for xyz and our reasons are that we have never seen you before, you need to pay the $500 fee again.

Super corrupt. I know quite a few cities have this, but from what I have read, state capitols are all ran this way.

>>1927455
peace of mind bro. I wont worry if my cheap subhuman chink electronics blows up. or the stove i left on had a meltdown. the only thing that can catch fire in my house is curtains, tables, bed and chairs.

my two storey house is all metal and concrete. my ceiling is a steel deck with 1 foot of concrete floor above it and reinforced with rebars. there's a bonus with a concrete ceiling. it's very wide flat surface perfect for doing laundries, constructing and putting communication mast. also great for parties. due to wide open area with nothing in it.

>>1927476
Yes, but imagine remodeling it. Pain.
I lived in concrete commieblocks. Electrical means making a cut in concrete which is dusty AF. Meanwhile in wooden (or metal stud) shitbox you poke a hole with a finger and fish ur wire.
Next "favorite" thing is plumbing. It is either exposed, or leaking if some genius decided to cast a pipe in concrete.
Also, in wooden house you have drywall, which is low skill thing. In concrete you plaster the wall. Which is not easy, you actually need experience, or you will have wavy AF shit. Or make fake wall for drywall out of wood or metal studs, which take precious space.

Real benefit of concrete isn't fire though, but water damage. Nothing will happen to concrete structure if water is leaking, while wooden might swell, rot, OSB will expand... You will just dry the shit, fix the leak, re-plaster and done. Maybe replace electrical.

>>1927489
yes installing wires were pain. but you were gonna install it once. i installed the wire before finishing the surface. hollow blocks were easy to cut. after that i covered the surface with concentrated cement.

my plumbing were never embedded on the walls. I route them along the outside ceiling edges. and behind my walls. not inside. I drilled a hole in concrete wall just enough to get the tube fit through.

the biggest problem I came across is duct work. duct work is impossible. that's why i have several small AC rather than centralized AC.

>>1927509
>yes installing wires were pain. but you were gonna install it once.
Well, not really. Wires do wear off, and sometimes you need more sockets.
I think the best solution to this is to cast PVC or metal conduits in concrete...
> hollow blocks were easy to cut.
I see, so block house. I though poured RC. Still pain desu.
>the biggest problem I came across is duct work. duct work is impossible. that's why i have several small AC rather than centralized AC.
Yeah. In my shithole ducts are luxury. So I didn't even think about this. Though, making 5cm hole in drywall, OSB and siding is way easier than in block.
Idk, in my opinion ducts are disgusting. If you can clean mini split no problem, duct - impossible. Also zoning. Better install separate ventilation thing, like autonomous heat recovery unit... Or open windows

>>1923619
>housing market is propped up on government charges keeping competition away
Huh. I wonder if the market would crash if an official removed those development costs.

>>1927489
this is a valid point, especially in our modern world where tech and styles change very quickly. things like insulation, electrical (think knob and tube, hardwired ethernet) and layout changes (going from rooms to open concept, adding a bathroom) can be done in an north american style house without starting from scratch.

some folks on diy really romanticize old buildings. on i can understand the romantic viewpoint of living in a 400 year old stone house but the reality is it would be a far cry to match the comfort and conveniences of a modern build.

>>1928682
400 year old houses are often tiny, this is the main problem. I mean, if it was giant ass palace, it would be possible to make something comparable to modern house.

>>1923482
Because we didnt have to rebuild our cities after American bombs leveled them.

>>1926931
>entire cities made of wood
tell me one entire city made of wood in Finland?
there might be some old buildings in smaller cities made of wood still but almost everything is made of concrete since 1950s

wood and bricks are used to build up single-family houses but since 60% of Finns live in some other kind of dwellings, almost all of the rest is made of concrete and 46% of all dwellings are apartments

the video is about some short time hype thing to fulfill hippies dreams, pic relates that's the reality

>>1923482
Oh look this thread again

>>1923482
Because of earthquakes. Wood is obviously more flexible.

>>1929160
>pic relates that's the reality
Except it isn't, is it? Because the labels have been swapped. You can literally see the Chernobyl plant in the back of the image, and the image for Hervanta is straight off the Wikipedia page, for fucks sake.

>>1923531
Americans don't care about other countries. At least not as much as other countries care about Americans. Why? Because America is the best country in the world.

>>1929209
I considered to mention that the labels have been swapped but I thought it doesn't make enough difference to bother, tried to find a pic with exact names but didn't find one and I knew about this image, not about that wikipedia has the original pic of Hervanta and it's only one of places that has much concrete at the same place.

You can't find much pics like this easily online because the normies living in good areas would find out they're really living in a slav tier country next to Russia, not in the US like people seem to think.

>>1923555
>Concrete isn’t a good insulator. It conducts heat very readily.
Yes, that's why you use insulation on the outside.
>It’s also a thermo mass
That's a benefit.
During winter, you can vent the room without the walls getting cold, and it's up to temperature again rather quickly because of the still warm walls.
During summer you vent during the night, let the walls cool down and have a nice temperature inside during the day.

>>1923482
ok so here is a more detailed breakdown of American residential construction.

starting with the foundation, to put a structure on top of it it has to be relatively compact. the soil treatment is very important.

after this is the foundation. there are three popular choices:

>raised cinder block ("dirt foundation")
>slab
>basement in cinder-block on a slab or poured concrete.

once you have the basic foundation picked you will cut and compact the soil to sub grade. while at sub grade, your utilities will insert their sleeves (a pipe you use to pull your utility later) or lay the utility.

after the utilities have been laid, you re-compact the sub-grade. if you are making a raised block house, you are done with the foundation.

you will then prepare the slab or the pour. in the case of a basement, you will partially complete the pour and let the utilities extend to the limits of the pour. a slab and vertical pour are roughly the same.

you will frame of the area you are pouring and drive supports to hold the frame still. from here is can start to differ based on needs, if you want water proofing you will put up a barrier, normally this is a literal sheet of plastic. once you have that secured, you will often put some rock down to hold it in place. on top of the plastic you lay your rebar supports, they will be space off the plastic to suspend them in the concrete.

then you pour concrete, for a slab or basement it will normally be a high strength concrete. it will take about 2 weeks to dry so you can build on it. if you are making a patio slab you can use low strength concrete which is walk-able after a day and can handle equipment after 3 days.

there is a whole process to pouring a slab and vertical that amounts to vibrate it enough to get yourself off once and polish it to a shine. vibrate it too much and the top layer will be pure cement, which is very brittle. you can never polish it too much.

cont.

>>1929567
once you have the foundation, in the case of a raise block house, the house has been prefabricated and all you do is drop it down and hook up the utilities. some of these come in pieces and so you will have to secure them together.

on a traditional home, you will either start attaching the frame at predetermined anchor points, or drill holes in the foundation to anchor too. anchors come in a variety of forms, I recommend wedge anchors (beat on) for this. if you are building a wood frame you will secure a beam of wood to the foundation to build on, these will be your walls. you then begin the process of raising your walls, which simplistically amounts to vertical planks spaced at 12"-18" with an occasional vertical support beam. doors, windows, and other open spaces in the walls will be framed with strong vertical and horizontal supports. if you are building several stories, large open spaces will be supported by very thick and strong crossbeams and vertical beams.

as an FYI if your house creaks when you walk in it, 80% of the time it because they used nails, 20% is a shitty flooring job. this is PSA for using screws.

once you have the framing up you can let the utilities run. in residential, most of the wiring is done in 12/2 romex for lights and outlets, and 10/3 romex for your dryer. pluming is done in copper or PEX pipe for pressured lines, and PVC for unpressured lines. "data/phone" will run either "bare wire" or a plastic sheath, using a sheath is very rare. on the out side pluming will use a high grade PVC, they will also install a shut off valve and meter at the municipal water connection. electrical will run some 6 or 8 gauge wire from a transformer, they will also install a ground rod. if you have Gas, they do the same as pluming but they have different materials that are thicker. data will run their cables however the fuck they want because they are not held to a code like electricians.

cont.

>>1929566
Thermal mass gets in the way 9 months out of 12.

>>1929576
the electrician will install about three boxes. one is a meter, one is a shutoff, and one is the main breaker. sometimes the meter and shutoff are one, sometimes they are two but located close to each other. these may be in the inside or outside, but the newer houses the shutoff and meter must be on the outside.

after the frame is up then you install the outside which will often be a layer of insolation, some plywood, maybe a sheet of plastic, maybe another layer of insolation, then some flap board or finish sheeting. if you have a wood frame-brick house, they will do basically the same thing but they will have ties to tie the brick into the wall the brick will basically become a wall built 1" around the house. this can very but most of the time it is really brick that has been cut to about 1/2" thick and glued to the wall like a cheap siding, its called brick veneer. and even more rarely it is a sheet of plastic and is nailed/glued to the outside that looks and feels like finished brick, it is only a piece of plastic called faux brick.

if you want more installation they put fiberglass in the walls. some walls require the use of plywood, but most walls are just drywall screwed to the studs.

before the wall goes up on the inside all the utilities will put in their outlets and or pipe out of the wall. then the drywall goes up. the outlets/pipes are cut out of the drywall. they then basically "patch" all of the drywall and sand it clean. once the drywall is dry, they can begin painting and installing the floor. on the first floor this is easy, but when you working on a suspended floor ("second floor") you have to wait for them to install the plywood that will be the base of the floor. then you put down a insulating layer, and then you can finally put down the finished floor. if the floor is uneven they typically use some roof tiles to adjust it

the roof is almost like the outside wall but you use roof tiles. metal roofs are all but banned.

cont.

>>1929199
>Because of earthquakes
I live in pacific ring of fire. during earthquake season earthquake happens 4-7 times per month the most power to hit my house was magnitude 4.5 for 1.3 minutes. and my cement house has never been cracked by it.

>>1929587
once you are ready for the finishing, you can put up the trim and base boards. finishing items are:

>the floor
>trim
>baseboards
>outlets and covers
>install permanent fixtures. like the kitchen sink and counter, the shower, the bath tub, fans, lights, fireplace.
>paint
>install interior facades and stuff.
>install permanent decor like drapes and murals

pretty much everything else is a derivative of this.

>>1929589
commercial construction is like this but more literal metal, and they like to use cinder-block walls.

industrial is even weirder, and has a lot more safety standards and requirements.

high-rise is another subset, with stringent rules and safety requirements.

as far as getting in, find a company and literally ask them how to be employed, half of them use a union/employing agency, the other half are right to work.

>>1929589
I almost forgot HVAC, this will typically be like running pluming, if you use vented HVAC, you will have duct run in your house, if you used ductless, you will have a lot more copper pipes run. ductless is more expensive, but more compact. you will always have a big radiator on the outside of your house called a "unit" this does the actual cooling. if you have a vented system, there will be a fan and condenser unit located usually in the roof or basement.

>>1929585
It's an advantage when
>it's significantly colder outside than inside
Wich is about 6-8 months per year.
>it's warmer outside during the day but not the night
Wich is about 2 months per year.
Other than that, it's neutral because it doesn't change much.
Keep in mind that keeping additional thermal mass at a constant temperature with identical insulation doesn't require additional energy.
Just like a full fridge doesn't need more energy than an empty one.

>>1929598
>Just like a full fridge doesn't need more energy than an empty one.
You don't turn off fridge every time you go outside.

>>1924427
My god that pic makes me so happy. Circuits for dedicated purposes, not just "lights" and whatever was quickest for the electrician to jump from place to place. And the labeling. The labeling is so good.

The one thing I don't get is where it looks like they used 12/3 to run multiwire branch circuits but didn't use two pole breakers.

>>1923482
If I'm trying to model a stud wall project i want to construct myself in the basement and ultimately use as a construction blueprint, should I model all wood as nominal or actual sizes? i dont think it would matter for OC measurements but maybe for end to end like openings

>>1923482
If done correctly, wood is a perfectly good material to build houses out of (especially if you use plywood and not fucking OSB), I'd personally at least consider building my future house out of wood if concrete wasn't a cheaper (and still better) option where I live.
Now the real question is why do they build houses out of wood in hurricane areas. Maybe they've calculated that it's cheaper overall to rebuild their houses every time a hurricane passes by. But if that's true, they should really stop crying every time that happens like nobody could have seen it coming.

>>1927462
timber-framed is not the same as stick-framed

>>1923531
How do American housing choices impact you? What you're doing to searching the world to find things to be upset about. Bet you have problems with depression and don't know why. Being perpetually upset about things that aren't even part of your life is a complete waste of the limited time you have here.

>>1929841
Actual. Jesus christ.

>>1929967
It all is stick frame... Unless you have logs, or idk, 6x6s stacked.

>>1929841
>should I model all wood as nominal or actual sizes?

If you want to write down numbers that you don't completely ignore later when you look at your "construction blueprint", you would use actual

>>1929617
You don't turn off the heat when going outside either.

>>1930036
>>1930002
thanks guys I fixed the dimensions so now it's actual. how does the framing look?

>>1930110
But I do.

>>1923571
That is because the ground is a good insulator. Concrete has a absolute garbage r-value.

>>1930122
need cross bracing (piece of wood across at about 4') on the free standing walls.

>>1930282
apparently it is called nogging.

>>1930122
use metal studs

>>1930283
>>1930282
you mean fireblocking?

>>1927476
>my two storey house is all metal and concrete. my ceiling is a steel deck with 1 foot of concrete floor above it and reinforced with rebars. there's a bonus with a concrete ceiling. it's very wide flat surface perfect for doing laundries, constructing and putting communication mast. also great for parties. due to wide open area with nothing in it.

Sounds pathetic. You have to have a roof party. Here in the U.S. we have wide open areas of land and can have clothes lines for drying our clothes and parties on the ground with bonfires and shit because we aren't all crammed in here like a bunch of cockroaches... You're basically a disgusting insect living in those high population density areas anon...

>>1929160
>tell me one entire city made of wood in Finland?
>there might be some old buildings in smaller cities made of wood still but almost everything is made of concrete since 1950s
>wood and bricks are used to build up single-family houses but since 60% of Finns live in some other kind of dwellings, almost all of the rest is made of concrete and 46% of all dwellings are apartments

That's the thing you guys don't realize is not everything in the U.S. is made of wood either. Basically the single family homes and maybe a few other buildings are. Any apartment buildings, schools, larger municipality, commercial, and industrial buildings, etc are all made from concrete, block, and steel. So

>>1930374
>high population density areas

actually I live rural. almost in the jungle. I have a 3G-4G internet connection. I have large a front yard. I like hanging out in high places. I like to drink, bbq and chat with my friends in my roof

>>1930283
>>1930282
>>1930122
so I looked into it. wall heights are 7' and stud length is 6'9

>Section 3.7.1.4 of the American Wood Council’s National Design Specification for Wood Construction (NDS) states that the slenderness ratio of studs shall not exceed 50 under in-service conditions or 75 during construction. This means that the maximum allowed weak-axis unbraced length for a 2x nominal wood stud is 6-3 (50 x1.5) for in-service conditions or 9-4.5 (75x 1.5) in under-construction conditions. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that solid wood blocking between the studs is required at these spacings in order to consider the studs adequately braced in their weak axis. Both interior and exterior wood wall construction commonly includes layers of wood structural panels (plywood or OSB) and/or gypsum wallboard. General practice is to consider these sheathing products and their attachments to the wood studs as adequate weak axis stud bracing

I will have gyp covering in the end so does it matter?

>>1930485
its common practice to do it anyways, it may not be a supporting wall but it is cheap and it make the wall flex less.

>>1930365
only called that if you are using it for fire code. though the common term is fire break. its become more common to use rated fire-board instead.

>>1930516
so ill just have to cut the 7' bags of insulation in half and put it on neither side of the bracing?

>>1930519
why are you insulating the inside of a house? are you making a cooler?

>free standing wall

>>1930519
also yeah you also do that if you brace an outside supporting wall.

>>1930523
>>1930524
fuck i didnt read it right. okay free standing walls make sense.

>>1930544

>>1930545
it isn't going to be strait, they are normally slightly offset to account for the nail/screw you have to insert, and both free standing walls.

the walls against the the outside can just be pinned to the outside wall. that is why they don't normally have bracing in this situation.

>>1930516
The fire break is horizontal to stop it from moving up the wall cavity so quickly.

It sounds like you meant to install fire rated sheathing on the side which wouldn't have the same effect

>>1930639
no you glue pieces of fire rated board to the top of the wall and place fire rated board on the face of the wall. you do this for kitchens, fireplaces, and electrical equipment. houses can get away with just using a piece of wood most of the time.

though the fire rating for a piece of 2x4 is like 20min. fire rated gypsum board is 1hour, and fire rated concrete board is 5 hours. regular drywall is also about 20min.

>>1930639
>>1930724
http://www.ifinishedmybasement.com/framing-basement/fire-block/
are you supposed to leave a gap between your stud wall and the concrete basement wall like he did? I planned on putting the frame directly against it

>>1923482
>Why not concrete?

It would cost more money to replace a house made of brick and concrete after every tornado.

>>1930786
Just use steel walls with double drywall.
Don't fall for anything thinner than 0.85 mm though.
Steel won't rot like wood, and it is important in a basement.

When the hurtycane comes the concrete house will sink into the ground and create a sink hole since the water table is like 5 fucking feet below the ground.

>>1930821
20 GA steel studs are still more expensive here than wood studs despite the covid price hike.
we has the basement waterproofed earlier this year and havent seen any water down there since then

>>1929160
Beautiful commie blocks there sven

>>1930856
Idk, steel frame doesn't need fireblocking.
What options do you have there?
(I'm metric fag, I just don't know, here you can get like 40 mm 0.5 mm studs which are dirt cheap, but they are kinda weak)

>>1930865
Ok, it seems in home depot you can get only 2x4 steel stud, and only in 25 gauge.
Huh.

>>1930865
25GA is the common big box size which is about .50mm
20GA is close to what you suggest at .89mm
here its 5.98 for a 2x4x8' wood stud and 6.90 for a 20GA steel stud of the same dimensions.
before covid wood was like $3 a stud
>>1930874
HD and Lowes seem to carry the cheap 25 ga but menards has 20 ga at the prices above.

>>1930877
>before covid wood was like $3 a stud
At this price wood was no-brainer.
>25GA is the common big box size which is about .50mm
Yeah. Non-structural, separating stuff. A bit flimsy. If you have door hanging on it and close too fast, you'd have a hairline crack somewhere in drywall 100%.
>20GA is close to what you suggest at .89mm
This one is already structural (i.e. you can build a house of it), so way more solid. +/- strength of wood.
>HD and Lowes seem to carry the cheap 25 ga but menards has 20 ga at the prices above.
Menards seems to have better choice of steel studs, huh.
So idk, you can hang drywall on 1 5/8 studs, they are 2.69 per 9 feet. But it will never feel solid.
I have this thing separating my room from the toilet, and you can hear everything, and when somebody opens the door, you feel it.

>>1930885
basic basement plan:
-I want to a make a small partitioned room for storage and maybe a tv/music center at some point.
-the two interior walls will not be insulated. there will be a loud furnace/mech equipment beyond that wall.
-there were currently old stud walls that I am removing, which had tons of things hanging from them both on the finished side and unfinished side
-wood studs would be better mentally because we can hand stuff on the exposed side of the stud, but steel would be easier and lighter weight to install.
-there will be 1 door that will not get used often and will likely be open all the time as its non-living basement.

my theory is that a large demographic of americans move house frequently/ have a shorter expected tenancy, meaning the house in question is priced and designed to be lived in for about 1 generation before a rebuild or refurb is needed.

>i'm paying for a house to live in, who cares what happens after i move out

Which is why housing is built to a pricepoint, and not like EU or elsewhere where longevity is desired

I've been renovating my house in Australia, which was built to last, (double bricked with airgap, built on top of a double brick panel beater workshop) when the house was built, all the plasterboard was infused with horsehair, which makes it a PAIN to modify, this plaster is so strong you literally cant punch a hole in it, i needed a reciprocating saw just to cut a square in it for a power outlet. The benefit is that it'll last 100's of years, the downside is it takes 10x longer to work with, so unless you do the work yourself, its really expensive to hire tradespeople to do it

Also older houses tend to be made from hardwood (cheaper back then than it will ever be in future) new house tend to use cheap wood like pine

>>1930898
It's more simple than you think there's just a fuck ton of trees in much of the United States and they're cheaper and less a pain to work with.

Many houses made of wood hold up fine for years with minor maintenance

>>1927053
Says the Amurrifat. Mee töihi vitun neekeri.

>>1930786
literally put it into google.

>>1930898
we use a tree called southern yellow wood pine. it has a dense ring count. the only wood you don't work with is balsa.

Australia doesn't use wood because they cannot keep up with demand for wood. Europe in general doesn't use would because they have the instinctive need to build castles and need all that wood for burning witches.

>>1930891
if you are going to make a entertainment center, that is a reason to insulate the interior walls. though that is beyond me as to how best to do that.

>>1930941
i know thats were I got the image from. I was referring to how he left a 1-2" gap between his stud wall and the concrete basement wall (which he later used drywall to close up for fireproofing.
I intend on putting my studwall right against the concrete wall

Wood frame is cheaper and in areas not prone to earthquakes it works pretty easily.

The japanese use steel frames on normal housing. Next level shit was working there as a carpenter for a while and people were dissing us for being "old" but the thing is it was all laser cut with joints bolted with steel so the frame was "wooden" in a sense but the material holding it together were steel.

Its I think a 80-90% all steel frame market now. Panasonic house if they could make this shit work with regulations in europe would take the market in a flash. So much more efficient. Its all premade.

>>1930891
i know this is the wood thread but steels studs got me thinking. I guess its doable, but how would I deal with this spot? with wood I was just going to lift the wall and wedge it under the w-flange then use furring to hold it in place on the finish side
with steel stud you put the top and bottom in place fist and I don't know how to attach the top track to the beam

>>1930122
can I do 24" OC with 2x6? will it make any difference in cost/stability?

You know why they color this stuff pink?
It's so it can't be seen in the autopsies of people who died of lung cancer.
This shit is just as bad for you as asbestos.

>>1931501
They are actually different

That's a single glass fiber vs a bundle of asbestos. You can barely distinguish how small the asbestos gets as a single fiber in this, and you can see cells sticking onto the glass and asbestos.

The scale of the asbestos is so close to the cells that it punctures them. The fiberglass just sits around them like a normal macro scale object

>>1931298
There should be tables in the building code to tell you if it is possible.

>>1931501
well one, you normally don't leave fiber glass exposed, and if you do it is in an area you aren't suppose to frequent often.

two they tell you to use eye and face protection as pictured. if you are going to be in that for long, say on occupation, there is special protective gear you are mandated to wear by OSHA.

the trade differs but it is in 29 CFR, usually under that trades hazardous and toxic section, which includes general dust and specifies glass or synthetic fibers on some of them.

>>1931298
A lot of times people want to step up to a thicker, 5/8" drywall/gypsum if they are spacing the studs at 24"oc instead of 16.... This makes installing the drywall by yourself more difficult (for me at least)

As for cost, look up the price difference for how many studs 2x4 vs the lesser quantity of 2x6.

>>1931501
should also note the types of insulation:

>foam board (normally blue and pink)
>fiberglass (loose) (normally brown or pink)
>fiberglass (batting) (normally pink)
>fiberglass (rigid) (normally yellow)
>rockwool/mineralwool (batting) (is brown)
>cellulose, sometimes literal saw dust (normally loose)
>spray foam (open cell) (used as batting) (barrier to air)
>spray foam (closed cell) (also used as batting) (water tight)

if you are building a traditional home, sand, straw, and saw dust are often used as insulation.

>>1924427
Noice. Backup generator?

Can't believe 4chan has lot of DIYERS
lol

>>1931587

>>1931587
I do DIY. because I dont have a lot of money to hire somebody to do the work for me. also, I do construction as fun and work out.

>>1931599
wtf

>>1932226
>you see it all begins with a murder.

>>1923482
>Why do Americans use Wood to build houses?
>Why not concrete?

Wood is the reason why usa have houses that are actually affordable by normal people

>>1923619
It's about 50k in california for environmental impact fees and test before you even pull permits which will run another 50 k and then taxes so another 50k if your lucky and don't have someone pissed off you don't have to deal with ceqa. But if a neighbor doesn't want you bulding a house there expect years of litigation on top of it all.

How much can you make from doing new home construction ? What do you do after completing a new home? do you go on to the next land and start a new home?

>>1932982
depends, rarely does someone for profit build a house alone.

in construction, residential, commercial and industrial, you normally have a general contractor whose job it is to oversee the project. in residential it is normally an investment firm who is the customer, this is how neighborhoods are built. the general contract more that likely is just one guy sitting in an office making certain that things get down, and if it doesn't he may do it himself.

the other major trades are:
>electrical (separated by "power company" and "electricians")
>site (sewer, storm, main water, and installing underground prefab structures)
>pluming (they tend to stay in the building)
>grading and paving.
>concrete work
>carpenters
>Information technology (sometimes the electricians do the actual laying out)
>HVAC (air-conditioning)
>bricklaying (yes it is a separate trade from concrete work)
>painters
>Gas (they are usually owned by a gas company)
>landscapers (differ from sight in that they are "finisher".)

the general contractor will often hire out of pocket for finishing work.

I left a more detailed description of building a house above.

as far as pay, labor gets between $8.50-$16.00/hr -tax on average, but some labor jobs like being a finish Dozer or track-hoe operator get $25.00-$30.00/hr -tax.

there is a general hierarchy,

unskilled < skilled < lineman < foreman (has certification) < supervisor foreman < project manager < operation manager < branch manager < division manager < Exect. manger < CEO < Owner/board-member/president/cooperate lackey

the foreman jobs usually require you are trade certified which on average means you have worked that trade for five years and had a mentor sponsor your testing. the highest a non-certified trades men can get is a lineman, who is responsible for skilled and unskilled labor. the manager jobs are open to trade certified, but they don't explicitly require you to be certified, and usually that means you have some kind of degree.

>>1932982
as far as profit for house construction, that is something the investors deal with. most people charge services plus some buffer.

services is broken down by

>labor
>material
>time to perform labor
>incidental
>small margin of profit

and then you have a clause for above incidental cost. if you ask for a change, it means shelling out more money, in a professional setting you charge more, but if working with an individual if you are pleasant we just charge the cost of new material and labor.

people rarely pay up front, which cost them more in loans, it also means I am less likely to actually finish the job quickly because I want my money now. if you smacked down strait cash, I would have it done tomorrow, but if you make me deal with a bank, I will take my time.

>>1923482
cheap material to buy
cheap material to transport
low skilled workers can erect it
america has large land to population ration, thus build larger houses, filling spans and volumes with solid materials like brick or concrete would be more expensive than the hollow like wood construction
america has an established timber farm industry that can continually produce materials
americans do not percieve houses as long term assets, but as any other "product", and so are comffortable with them rotting away in 20years or so, and then replacing the "product"
america has no history of conflict, thus they do not feel they need solid and secure walls for protection, and so dont think about having cardboard like protection, even in neighbourhoods where random gangs gunshots rip all the way through houses, americans dont have the historical consideration for solid protection.
also on the products / consumer side, wood products, plastic wrappings so the wood doesnt rot, are all heavily branded which americans are happy to "buy in" to the marketing of these wood products, whereas conctrete and break already being perfected can't be innovated on or marketed, and thus americans dont have branded bricks they can "buy in" to.

americans are mostly concerned with interior finishes, like granite kitchens, or rock fireplaces, oddities that are in fashion or have a marketable brand.
it is funny looking at americans make thier giant houses to what is essentially a garden shed standard in europe, then fill it with all this over priced and tacky coverings. but relatively speaking its still a young nation, doesnt have any history or reason why they wouldnt build the way they do.

>>1933695
that is not true and is a total misconception.

the business oriented are concerned as such but the people who invest in their homes take care to build it of respectable materials. it just happens wood is reasonably strong and capable. you might be referencing the MC-mansions, but that is a different story.

if you would like I am collegiality trained on the history of American architecture and can repeat a lecture from the American perspective. those who are also, may recognize it as introduction to architecture. that is also on top of my personal experience in the field of construction.

Everyone does concrete where I live, too. But I'd build with plywood and drywall, it's cheaper, faster, easier to maintain. Plus, I'd use the saved money to buy a larger plot, so I can have plenty of space around the house.

>>1929844
>plywood
What is the actual function of the plywood?
Everything I've built, I've done timber frame, drywall and metal cladding.

I was thinking of Reinforced cement for outside walls and wood or dry wall for inside partition of my new house but with 2 square feet of RC cement support columns and cement floors on upstairs.

good idea?

>>1923482
>Why do Americans use Wood to build houses?

you mean glue, wood chips and chineese dog feces

>>1923549
>wouldnt it be easier to do insulation with concreate?

yes and more durable.

>>1924142
>thats fucked up

many such cases.

>>1924427
>That would take hours to wire and plumb a modern sized house.

its not easier but not hard as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHjl9q74tfo

>>1923575
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-js9gXSME

>>1923482
If you live in america, get a commercial driver's license and work for municipalities. Local is better than state, but take what you can get. You will get innumerable requests for side-work like masonry, landscaping, carpentry, etc. I've been in Municipal road maintenence for 3 years, and I've learned basic masonry, basic and mid-tier carpentry and basically everything there is about landscaping just by being available and working for the other guys who have side businesses.
TLDR;
Work in public works, and work with others on outside projects

>>1923482
Some of us don't want to feel like we live in a private prison.

can i nail the jambs right to the studs or do i need the shim gap?
its a low clearance 6'4, so there will not be a top jamb or door stop

>>1935531
Do you want your door to open and close? Then you need a shim gap because your studs arent straight enough

>>1927067
Reinforced concrete is not forever. I wouldn't trust that roof 50 years from now. Steel and cement don't mix.

>>1935584
I don't understand this "concrete is forever" meme that keeps going around. Yeah we can point to examples of ancient concrete structures that are still around, but people always miss the important points; they weren't full of steel and they were physically massive in terms of dimension. The slab that the Parthenon sits on is many feet thick and plain concrete; the only real way that it is going to degrade from age is by simply abrasion.

Most of the slabs in concrete homes these days are designed to just give a couple inches of cover over the rebar. Once it rusts, it expands, and causes spalling of the concrete.
The intended service life of most concrete houses being built today is on the order of decades; much shorter than you could hope for from a well built wood house.

https://lib.dr.iastate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6292&context=etd

>>1935602
most modern mixes of concrete last about 200 years before total degradation and it being structurally unsound. 50 years is the mark of necessary maintenance. a well-kept slab of reinfoced concrete will last upwards of 2000 years.

the primary fault of reinforced concrete is the concrete, and not the rebar. concrete maintenance mostly amounts to preventative wear as you have made a rock... however structurally concrete is brittle and does poorly when sheering-compressive forces are applied which the rebar reinforcement makes up for.

solid steel walls are generally not chosen because it its tendency to rust, but rebar reinforcement is protected enough by the concrete to prevent excessive rust. this is why skyscrapers have a lot of glass on the outside and paint exposed steel.

>>1927453
>Most people don't want to be walking around a stone castle/dungeon with candlesticks and shit
I actually want to do this. I have been looking for land to get to build an off the grid concrete house on.

>>1935873
I was once asked the cost of building a a period correct roman fort, it came out to about $5 million for modern amenities. $2 million just for the wall. and $3 million for all the facilities. however cost alone was about $2 million for materials alone for exact period accurate facilities.

you can drop about half a million if you use a fired brick wall.

>>1923482

>Why not concrete?

Probably works in some singaporean concrete hell where "four seasons" means "+30 C every day".

In places with actual weather:
>Unreasonably heavy
>Conducts moisture
>Incredibly stupid framework for insulation which is required in some places in the world

Also, if you have non-retards in your construction engineering, you can build 14-story wooden buildings like pic related.

Wood is great but I have my reservations about asian people, who I think are the only ones who could or need to pull off something like this. People in warm countries, no, just no.

>>1926931
>entire cities
Literally 3 buildings at the edge of Helsinki that they're calling "Wood City"

>>1927067
>concrete is forever
You'd be suprised how chinked-up weimerica's concrete can be.

>>1924427
>not using ring mains

>>1937521
Yeah because wiring your house like a string of christmas lights ifs real smart. I'd sure like to have a fuse in every single one of my plugs!

>>1937521
Ring mains are actually a fire hazard, because what wire do you run? 2,5 mm^2 It is rated for 16 amps, and in case of failure you'd end up with 32A breaker on wire that is rated at 16A

>>1937530
>Yeah because wiring your house like a string of christmas lights ifs real smart
Christmas lights are wired in series, not parallel. But hey, you're American so I'll let that slide.
>I'd sure like to have a fuse in every single one of my plugs!
Imagine wanting a faulty appliance to take out its own fuse while everything else on that circuit carries on as if nothing has happened ... oh wait, that makes perfect sense instead of "We've got a dozen things plugged into that circuit (spur) so any one of them could have tripped the circuit breaker".

>>1937545
>Ring mains are actually a fire hazard
That must be why the whole of Bongistan is currently on fire and has been ever since ring mains were first installed...

>>1937547
Actually modern RGB lights are in parallel but you're European and those are probably illegal so I'll let it slide. One or two parallel circuits is extremely retarded. Why have half the house go black if something trips the breaker?

>Imagine wanting a faulty appliance to take out its own fuse while everything else on that circuit carries on as if nothing has happened

Why do you think we run so many separate circuits in America? Most things like the fridge, freezer, dishwasher and furnace are required to be on their own separate breaker now. Houses have so many receptacles that you don't have dozen things plugged into a single outlet and if you do you usually use a power bar which usually has its own breaker.

>>1937551
Bongs are lucky brick and plasted doesn't burn, but imagine following? And this can happen, because all sockets are daisy-chained (usually) and thus wire can get lose.

>>1937565
Ok, blue arrow is in wrong place, but you get the idea.

>>1937560
>Why have half the house go black if something trips the breaker?
That's why individual appliances have their own fuse, Anon, it's to avoid the the circuit breaker tripping.
>Why do you think we run so many separate circuits in America?
Because you like wasting the Earth's resources because muh freedom? Radial circuits were the norm here, but this is a country of limited natural resources, especially after raiding everything for the WWII effort when ring mains were first introduced. Ring mains were the answer to "How can we rebuild the country into a land fit for heroes when we cant even put electricity into every house?"

>>1937565
Yes, that is a drawback with ring mains. Which is why there have always been tight regulations and extensive training to become a sparky here. Plus our wiring is built into (as you pointed out) brick walls, which do not flex and so do not put any mechanical strain on the circuit. No system is perfect, but I've lived with ring mains my entire life and have never known anyone whose house has burned down due to a ring main failure, and no-one I know knows anyone in that situation either. It's not as common an occurrence as the other Anon was implying.

>>1937565
A 32amp breaker is recommended on ring mains, and 2.5mm cable is rated at 26amps.

>>1937582
Also, at 240v our appliances use roughly half the amps that the same appliance would demand in the US on 110v circuits.

>>1937573
You should have invested in the right materials and did it right the first time. Because now you people are royally fucked when EV's take over. Good luck charging a car on a 32amp shared circuit.

>>1937579
>Yes, that is a drawback with ring mains
Which could have been avoided by installing 4x16A fuses (not even CBs) . But this would lead to weird situaltions where half of ring is live, and other half isn't.
> Plus our wiring is built into (as you pointed out) brick walls
You see, problem is not wiring, it is the socket itself. Every time you insert something, it flexes a bit and moves. And copper work-hardens.
I've seen such failure myself (on aluminium wires, but on copper it will happen too, just later). Your box might be cast in mortar or secured to stud firmly, but you can't make socket not flex.
Especially with your bulky ass plug.
> No system is perfect, but I've lived with ring mains my entire life and have never known anyone whose house has burned down due to a ring main failure
It won't lead to fire, it will just lead to insane voltage drops and hot wire and brainfuck moment.
>>1937582
Huh, in my shithole they rated 2,5 mm cable to be 20. Weird.
>>1937589
Washing machine - 10A+ because it has heater.
Kettle 10A.
Idk... Some industrial 4-gang toaster... You still can overload the ring circuit if you want.

>>1937594
The vast majority of Bong houses have a 100amp supply. Two 32amp ring mains (one for each floor), and two 5amp lighting circuits (one for each floor). That still leaves 26amp capacity at 240v (assuming every circuit is running at max capacity ... which it won't be).

>>1923522
>ending ststements with question marks
do ameticans really?

>>1924336
America invented these, there's houses all over that are built with them in the USA. I own a rental house built with these kinds of bricks 100 years ago, the insulation factor is basically zero.
They're good for fast construction, not much else.

>>1937603
Why would you only have two lighting circuits?
What if a LED driver shits the bed? Don't tell me you fuse those too...

>>1937601
>You see, problem is not wiring, it is the socket itself. Every time you insert something, it flexes a bit and moves. And copper work-hardens.
>I've seen such failure myself (on aluminium wires, but on copper it will happen too, just later). Your box might be cast in mortar or secured to stud firmly, but you can't make socket not flex.
>Especially with your bulky ass plug.
Most people don't unplug stuff as our sockets have switches on them, and they're really solid sockets I've never heard anyone claiming the sockets flex, idk.
>It won't lead to fire, it will just lead to insane voltage drops
Which is an actual benefit of a ring main when not suffering from a hypothetical faulty connection, ring mains remove the potential of volt drops that radial circuits can suffer from if too long.
>Huh, in my shithole they rated 2,5 mm cable to be 20. Weird.
To be fair, it depends on installation requirements, if you need to have the cables fitted into conduit inside as insulated wall then the rating is lower, clipped to a thermal sinc like brickwork then the rating is higher.
>Washing machine - 10A+ because it has heater. Kettle 10A. Idk... Some industrial 4-gang toaster... You still can overload the ring circuit if you want.
Any circuit can be overloaded.

>>1937617
Two lighting circuits, one for each floor. Seems pretty easy to understand to me, Anon. Yes, LED drivers are also fused. As I pointed out before, it's better for the LED driver that shits itself to take out its own fuse then take to out the entire circuit and everything else that's connected to it forcing you to play the "Now what the fuck caused this circuit to die?" game.

>>1937619
>Most people don't unplug stuff as our sockets have switches on them, and they're really solid sockets I've never heard anyone claiming the sockets flex, idk.
Idk. Phone charger or laptop charger. Before I had remote uni, I was plugging those in and out every day.

>>1937633
Even our lights are only wired a couple rooms to a circuit. A single floor can have multiple separate lighting circuits.

>>1937642
Fair enough, but I'm not buying the idea that repeatedly unplugging and plugging stuff will sufficiently work harden the copper conductor at the rear of the socket. I mean, we're talking the tiniest of tiny movements if any at all. If there's a study on it I'd like to see it.

>>1937649
Erm, okay?

Are we going to use wood for building houses forever?

>>1938875
Renewable resources

>>1923482
There are a lot of places where concrete isn't feasible. A shifting foundation due to clay heavy soil expanding will crack the shit out of concrete walls. With wood you just lift the house and backfill the foundation, with concrete you'd have to do that and repair the walls. Would double the cost. And then there are plenty of places that see 100*+ summers and we'll below freezing winters. Concrete doesn't hold up well for that unless you are talking about massively overbuilt stone walls. Here in burgerstan concrete is only a reasonable option in hurricane prone areas.

>Muh wood houses don't last long though
Only because most people either move into a pre-existing house or have one built and then never once do any maintenance. It's rare to see someone do shit like replace the wiring or replace the roof unless it's already falling apart.

If you want to have an actual gripe about American building practices it should be that composite shingle roofs are absolutely retarded.

>>1937656
Why have a fuse for each driver? It's not hard to diagnose which light or outlet shit the bed when a circuit only covers 1-2 rooms. Unless you are retarded, of course.

>>1938901
>shingle roofs are absolutely retarded.
they don't look aesthetic either

>>1938905
Didn't say it was hard, just a waste of time. But you play that game if you want to, Anon.

>>1938992
fuck shingles

>>1939757
Corrugated metal uber alles.

>>1938992
As opposed to what? That ugly ass and fragile terra cotta shit?

>>1927067
Laminated wood holds up better under a building fire then steel anon.
It might blacken, but steel will soften and expand, compromising integrity.
Wood's a perfectly solid building material.

>>1941124
>glued shit
I'd agree with you if you said real wood, but not fucking LVL. LVL is basically a thick OSB.

But you see, in concrete, you have mild steel and like couple inches before you even hit steel
In steel frame house with cementicious sheathing nothing can burn. (Do you store um... Gasoline at home? No, so no worries)

>>1939779
This is better than shingles

https://eaglepoll.ga/poll.php?vote=9
Brick vs Stick vs Tent in the forest vs ???

>>1943333
what type of forest, what is rain fall, median temp, seasonal temp ranges, wild life threats, insects, how much sun exposure, what is ground made up of, what weather and disaster risks are there?

>>1943813
Your local area I guess.