/diy/ - Do It Yourself

The specific sub I had my eye on for the basis of Hamsub Mk2. can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Wpt0HR1IU

It's very robust and already ballasted appropriately such that adding the modified toy diving bell to the front would not affect the balance (in place of the viewing bubble, which does not appear to be water tight.) For the onboard air supply, I would sling one of these under the sub's body;

http://www.amazon.com/Spare-Air-3000-3-0-Kit-Yellow/dp/B0000E1R4Z/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330755
866&sr=8-1

I'd affix a valve that would let me set it to very slowly release the contents into the 'crew cabin', which would vent continuously out a one way valve in the floor. Because both the air canister and the proposed 'crew cabin' come pre-ballasted to neutral buoyancy, neither would upset the balance of the sub itself. Based on the rate at which a single hamster consumes air, that canister could easily provide over an hour of life support between refills. As it's still an ambient pressure design, the safe depth would be no deeper than 21 feet, although that's ample considering the city itself will be no deeper than 8 feet.

I have also been thinking about Hamsub Mk2. The Mk1 was slow, clumsy, cramped and limited to shallow water. I would like the Mk2. to be fast, maneuverable, spacious and to carry it's own air supply. Towards that end, I was looking at the state of the art in RC subs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnH3tLhBUkg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5xc4n77gVQ

I have also discovered that the Playmobil toy line includes a number of surprisingly sophisticated toy submersibles with sealable, strongly watertight cabins, electric propulsion, and functioning ballast tanks. They also make a smaller but equally watertight "diving bell" that could be stripped down to the watertight portion and then added to a high end RC sub as the cockpit:

http://www.amazon.com/PLAYMOBIL%C2%AE-4473-Playmobil-Research-Submarine/dp/B0014BUF4U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=
UTF8&qid=1330755585&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Playmobil-Deep-Sea-Diving-Bell/dp/B0014BR9VM/ref=sr_1_1?s=toys-and-games&i
e=UTF8&qid=1330755648&sr=1-1

P.S. big thanks to Scroton, who recently donated a 50 watt solar panel and additional battery pack; With these, it is possible to keep a colony running perpetually even far from any source of power, by charging one battery while the other is in used, and periodically swapping them. The solar panel will ensure a single battery lasts around two days on a charge and the air pump has it's own integrated battery so it will keep running during the swap.

i fucking love your threads and project.
how do you plan to transfer food from the sub to the habitat? like a remote controlled grabber arm or something?
since you're willing to submerge a chamber, why not run another tube next to the air tube that has a large enough diameter to drop food down? keep the food tube closed most of the time, and just open it to replenish food. seems a lot less complicated, unless you're really into the hamsub idea :3

>>166918
>how do you plan to transfer food from the sub to the habitat? like a remote controlled grabber arm or something?

By hand. Stick it into the airlock, and shut the door. The airlock automatically purges once the door is shut. Nice and low tech.

>why not run another tube next to the air tube that has a large enough diameter to drop food down?

It's an ambient pressure habitat. If I ran a food tube to the surface, it would equalize pressure with the surface, and cause the habitat to flood.

BTW, RC subs can even launch missiles now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sjui6fMwXg

There are also actual explosive depth charges and mines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExA69prggRg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWQQ18fACj0

Here are some model mines exploding. From what I can tell they use 'caps', the small explosive charges used in toy guns. The mines themselves are not harmed by these small explosions and are fully reusable. Presumably the same method would allow for electric propelled model torpedos as seen in the other vid which produce small explosions when they impact something.

>>166919
then what is the point of the sub then? other than lulz

i know it's ambient, just the second hose from the top when you're not adding new food.

>>166935

"For lulz" mostly, and for the future when I find some way to make the sub dock safely to the city.

>>166935
um. i meant to say "just close...from the top" lol

>>166945

It doesn't work. Trust me. I built a prototype some time ago to prove it. Unless the habitat is extremely watertight (Such as a small single chamber structure built from a scuba drybox) it will flood the moment the tube is opened. It does not take long, even if the tube is narrow. The answer is no, I will not do it that way, as I know from experience it is a bad idea. You can build a prototype for yourself to see what I am talking about, you will get the same result.

>>166948
Why don't you make a small, automatic two door airlock for the food? The outer part could even be at surface pressure if you found a rigid tube. You'd drop the food into the tube and it would land on the upper airlock door. The door would be opened, let the food fall in, then close. Once closed, the airlock would be pressurized to the habitat, then the lower door would open and allow the food to fall in.

If you're looking for low-cost, highly efficient automation, get an MSP430 Launchpad. They're similar to arduinos, only they cost 5 dollars and they're very energy efficient.

i fucking remember you and your hamsternauts from many a year ago. how did the submersible habitat with algae as a food source turn out?

pic semi-related

>>167052

>Why don't you make a small, automatic two door airlock for the food?

Because that is much more complicated than it sounds, and well beyond my abilities. If you know of any such off the shelf motorized opening/closing/sealing hatches for hobby projects let me know, I don't think I can build my own.

>>167068

What about an airlock that has the outer door with a rod too long and an inner door with a spring mechanism, so that when you open the outer door the inner closes automatically and the outer would be open, then when you closed the outer the rod would force the inner to hold open?

>>167238
to clarify, the outer door would have a rod attached to it somewhere near the non-hinge side, that would force the inner door open and make it stay open.

OP, could you post some pictures or videos of your hamster habitats? Or of anything interesting you have your hamsters do?

If the airlock is only there to add food you would only need to construct 1 sealing hatch that you could open and close remotely. You would still need another sealing hatch, but that could be operated manually, which would make it easier. Picture explains in more detail.

Please tell me the back story to this, haven't been here in awhile, just occasionally browse, so as a complete outsider looking in, why not just feed them from the top?

>>167249

>OP, could you post some pictures or videos of your hamster habitats? Or of anything interesting you have your hamsters do?

All the videos are here: http://www.youtube.com/user/anonbutt

>>167425
>why not just feed them from the top?

Here's why. Figure 1:

....and Figure 2.

>>167595
Have you considered making the cage/box/whatever watertight? What would happen if the air pump fails for some reason?

>>167595
This makes me think. not about the air displacement, but instead about the cover. Have you already considered having the habitat like an upside down jar? I mean a jar upside down has the lid at the bottom. You unscrew it to access it while the glass is all one unit that won't leak. If it did leak, only the bottom would get flooded and there'd be plenty of dry space from there up. Translate that into your habitat design.

>>167609
>Have you considered making the cage/box/whatever watertight? What would happen if the air pump fails for some reason?

Of course I have. But watertight is not binary, it comes in degrees. If i limit the entire living space to only one container I can use a very reliably watertight scuba drybox, but it does't give the hamsters much elbow room. The minute I cut into it to add a tunnel to some other module, I have compromised the watertightness and added places it can leak from if there is a loss of pressure.

In the event of a pump failure, the backup pump kicks in. In the event of a power failure, the battery backup kicks in. All life support critical systems are redundant.

>>167613

>Translate that into your habitat design.

I already have a habitat like that, Hamlab II. Pic related.

I could of course modify any of these designs to add a moonpool in the floor, but as I have mentioned in prior threads, the hamsters no longer have their natural fear of water and will gladly swim out of any open moon pool. I could add a cover to it, but then, that's basically what's in the OP, just designed for ease of access.

>>167615
>>167618
Yeah, I was working this up when you posted these two posts.

You can get fairly large clear plastic containers for this actually, since you are using equalized-positive pressure anyway. Like one of those large clear plastic totes for instance.

To clarify; I know everyone really, really, really loves the idea of a food repleishing tube to the surface. It seems very clever. But it has serious problems in practice, and is completely unnecessary; The limiting factor in terms of time is not food, hamsters eat relatively little and I can fit more than a month's supply in there easily.

The limiting factor is needing to clean the litter. I tried soil, it became overgrown with grass and then developed mold. I have switched to silica litter for it's dehumidifying properties and the fact that it can be used the longest of all types of litter; this permits one month 'missions', likely to remain the practical maximum. Because I need to surface these habitats once a month for cleaning anyway, I can just resupply them with food at the same time.

>>167625
Make a water rover that crawls across the floor of the lake. Have the whole shebang, articulateable claws, camera, replacement littler, and food. Make it replace everything. You'd need to reconfigure your habitat to allow this obviously, but it'd be damn sexy science going on.

Age for Mad Scientist.

Can I get an update on your current project?

Are you going to place the next Hampture deeper, in a lake?

Have you thought about indefinitely self sustainable ways to feed and clean the tanks?

Have thought about putting come basic electronic circuits in there to regulate shit? (airlocks/cleaning etc)

Also if you could modify an RC sub to dock with Hampture that could be a neat way to deliver food/take away refuse.

>>167625
It sounds more like humidity control and fresh air recirculation is the biggest problem? Have you try measuring the humidity?

I guess my thought is that, with the moon pool and (possibly) lower rate of air circulation, the humidity might be much higher than it should be.

I would probably try additional fans in there just to keep air moving, and try to reduce the humidity. A desiccant bed is one of the obvious ways, but it has to be relinquished regularly. The "better" way is very energy intensive, but basically has an actively cooled surface that moisture will condense on, and this moisture is collected.

>>167068
>Because that is much more complicated than it sounds, and well beyond my abilities.
I hate to say it, but if you want to extend the mission length and complexity of these projects, you are probably going to have to tackle the issue of more complex electronics whether it be for doors or valve control.

>If you know of any such off the shelf motorized opening/closing/sealing hatches for hobby projects let me know
Never heard of any. I think you might be in territory well beyond where most hobbyist fear to tread.

>I don't think I can build my own.
I was imagining a really simple one. Please find attached a crude diagram.

The idea is that the airlock would start at surface pressure and have the payload inserted into it. The outer airlock door would be opened and closed by servo. The valve between the habitat and the airlock would be opened, allowing pressures to equalize. Once equal, the inner airlock door would be opened by servo. To remove something from the habitat, the process would be reversed except the valve between the airlock and surface would be opened to allow it to equalize.

The airlock and entryway must be rigid, since they will cycle through greater than and less than ambient (bottom) pressure.

If I was to start a project similiar to this, would you still recommend using hamsters or is there another easier to maintain animal? Like a rat?

>>166883
why not get closed loop life support working on these things?

>>167594
>>167595
>>167625

Doesn't

>>167406

Solve that though? Basically it's just an airlock, with one of the doors above the surface of the water. It would still require two doors, but one could be manipulated from the surface and thus easier.

Would someone mind informing me what the "grand" project here is?

>>167615

Also, use dat silicone sealant. It works great for making things reliably waterproof.

>>167827

An underwater objectivist utopia for hamsters.

>>167841
I see. Anywhere I can see how its progressing?

>>167649

>Can I get an update on your current project?

That's what this thread is.

>Are you going to place the next Hampture deeper, in a lake?

Already did that twice, with the Mk.2 and Mk3. This new city will be in a lake as well.

>Have you thought about indefinitely self sustainable ways to feed and clean the tanks?

Yes and I have tried several methods. None seem to work as well or for as long as simple silica gel litter.

>Have thought about putting come basic electronic circuits in there to regulate shit? (airlocks/cleaning etc)

Yes, the Mk. IV has a built in power distribution box that splits the incoming electricity to LED lights and the heater pads. I do not yet have any designs for a workable double door airlock hence this new design for a simpler self purging single door airlock/moonpool hybrid.

>Also if you could modify an RC sub to dock with Hampture that could be a neat way to deliver food/take away refuse.

Yes, that was the idea behind the development of Hamsub, although the Mk.1 was really just a proof of concept and could not dock to anything.

>>167822

>why not get closed loop life support working on these things?

I tried. I built a large algae bioreactor. But then winter came and the algae died. I may try again this Summer.

>>167818
>If I was to start a project similiar to this, would you still recommend using hamsters or is there another easier to maintain animal? Like a rat?

I chose dwarf hamsters because they are small and suited to living in networks of tunnels and chambers. Mice would probably also work well.

>>167847
>I see. Anywhere I can see how its progressing?

Yes, here: http://hampture.blogspot.com/

I understand food isn't a limiting factor, but if you wanted to (whether for food or not) pvc ball valves would solve the tube to the top problem a la >>167406

pvc ball valve:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_21482-33599-P200+3/4_0__?catalogId=10051&productId=3353864&UserSearc
h=21482&Ntt=21482&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

pic is updated design with pvc ball valves

>>167908
>http://www.lowes.com/pd_21482-33599-P200+3/4_0__?catalogId=10051&productId=3353864&UserS
earc
>h=21482&Ntt=21482&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151&rpp=24

Heyyy, now we're talkin. That would work perfectly. I'd only need them for a very large permanently emplaced habitat with some kind of biome inside the take care of the waste of course, but this is useful to know, I'll file it away for future use.

>>167922
I know this is old, but I'm posting in case OP comes back before the thread 404s. Maybe put some waterproof enclosures around some servos attacked to those valves. And how you said this would be for a permanent thing, perhaps an upgrade to the mk III

>>167625
So how about making "litter pods"? They could be air/water tight constructs where the hamsters could do their business but in tube form inside another tube, that way you could stack them to the surface and then shove one more in when it got filthy, and that way the last one would shove out into the water, or maybe back to the surface, via another tube. Think bank air tubes, which actually now that I think about it seems like the best idea really. You could easily automate that.