/diy/ - Do It Yourself

>>1389755
Torx? Phillips head? That 5-point shit on iPhones? What do you want?

And it will be better if you buy a real set of tools instead of reusing the shitty one that comes with your Ikea furniture. The drivers always feel better than the L-shaped keys.

>>1389757
6 sided hex style my dude. i work in a machine shop and i have to loosen up the tool holders to change the inserts on a regular basis. i usually end up stripping/rounding off the allen key or literally twisting it bent because the screws wont budge. The kind I use are all made of steel, what kind of steel I don't know. I wonder if anybody sells sets made out of tool steel.

>>1389759
Get some T-handle ones or screwdriver type from a real brand. It’s easier to push down when you’re turning it too so you don’t get the goody leverage like the L-shaped ones and strip it out.

>>1389759
>>1389761
Pic related shows the screwdriver and all the little bits where you would probably get a better grip. And you can even drive them with the ratchet if you need some leverage.

Tell your boss to buy this set for you.

>>1389766
cool thanks

>>1389755
your pic related is designed to fasten set screws that usually get locktited and which function is to stop shit from unscrewing/pulling out from vibrations and such

>>1389757
>>1389761
>>1389764
> implying this entire thread is not derpis samefagging to himself because no one else will answer him.

Please answer the question tripfag.
> Explain why you feel you are important enough to defy the culture of anonymity that 4chan is based on. There are plenty of other forums you can namefag on, why do you do it here?

Remember, everytime you ignore this it just reinforces the obvious conclusion that you are here to have your e-peen stroked, because there is absolutely no reason to post with a trip otherwise.

>>1389774

>implying this entire thread is not derpis samefagging to himself because no one else will answer him.

8 replies, 4 posters, so I doubt it. Check the top right corner of any thread, directly right across from the [Return] [Catalog] [Bottom] [Update] buttons. Don't get so wound up about tripfaggots, the reason they use the tripfaggot code anyway is for the attention, just set his trip to be ignored and filtered, and put sage in the option field so you don't bump it with your off topic reply

>>1389759
hence why most people throw out the allen screws and put in new Torx heads.

Worked with a guy who had a set of little torque Torx screwdrivers. Not Wiha's. Probably cost him a fortune. But sure were nice when you were constantly changing roughing facemill inserts.

>>1389769
Is that really a thing? Like L-Shaped hex keys shouldn’t be used for anything other than assembly?

I see where OP is coming from because those ones always give a goofy up and out leverage when you need to put torque on them and it’s easy to strip them.

so use hex socket bits.

>>1389766
man i wish my company bought all my tools for me. They got me a drill/impact set and that's it.

>>1390043

what kind of actual cuck are you?

>>1391145
What is that supposed to even mean?

Spending your own hard earned money just to work, because the man you are slaving for refuses to provide basic tooling for the job?
Now THAT is being a cuck.

>>1389759
what the fuck dude you shouldn't be torquing those little screws down so hard, don't even use the long end of the fucking wrench on them

if you are too stupid to use the right amount of torque on small screws then how can your opinion here even be helpful?

>>1389786
>because those ones always give a goofy up and out leverage when you need to put torque on them and it’s easy to strip them


...no they don't..

>>1389755
it's a deliberate part of their design. you're supposed to round the head before you risk stripping the threads

>>1389759
I haven't had many issues with either torx or allen for inserts. Brand of the tools unfortunately does matter, as does replacing screws and drivers as they wear. The screws and cams for inserts are wear items, especially the insert screws. Insert screw holes are actually either angled or offset so it tightens the insert firmly into the pocket. As you can imagine, this off center loading on the screw does not do it many favors. The side of the head that does majority of the clamping wears much more quickly and the screw shank actually bends a bit. You gradually lose the clamping force as you reuse screws. The insert manufacturer actually recommends that they be replaced surprisingly often, definitely way more often that what actually occurs of course. I've not heard the official word on the insert cams like on lathe inserts, but I assume that they should be replaced more than they generally are as well. Luckily, the cam part (and not the hold down clamp part) usually has hex's on both ends, so you can distribute the load with two allen wrenches if it's really stuck.

Also, the other key is to control the torque, either with a torque limiting screwdriver or wrench, or air gun. Or hiring people other than bottom of the bin gorillas. Good hardware doesn't help when abused heavily.

I've only had to break out the hammer and shatter an insert a handful of times in my career so far (only 6 years admittedly). Much of the advice above is only sporadically followed and I myself only heard about some of this a year and a half ago. We do have a lot of torque limiting guns around though, but not for every area. Obviously there will be more problems on machines where only the Mk1 torque wrench (your arm) is used.

>>1391229
>no source
>arguing common sense

But they do, especially when using those chrome ones like in OP’s pic that come with your Walmart end table. If you get off the computer and spin a wrench, you would understand. It’s much easier to keep even pressure with the T-handles or a socket. Because of the design of those hex keys, it’s difficult to put a centered downwars force on the wrench to keep it seated well in the fastener when you need to apply some torque. It’s not rocket surgery, but idiots like to argue anything on the internet and here I am replying to one. And this is why OP is having trouble with them (and likely overtightening).

>>1391221
>depending on your master to supply you with tools so that you can work

Toolboxes have wheels for a reason. I will gladly buy my own shit rather than begging for my boss to go buy a 9/16 wrench or having to use awful tools in general because they're cheap. I am just as prepared to work at a new job as i am my current. The side jobs I do more than pay for my tools.

>>1391734
+1

My dead alcoholic dad always told me that. Buy your own tools and you will never have to rely on somebody else to do a job. And you can get work done without having to depend on the boss who owns you.

>>1391741
your dad was a good man... fruition was his key

>>1391728
there's no force torquing the wrench out of the socket for a hex....

Are you using some off-brand tapered hex socket shit or something?

>>1391752
>>1391728
Okay, maybe if the hole is fucked up or something, but they don't come like that new.

>>1391752
No it’s a combination between shitty L-shaped wrenches and shitty fasteners like OP is dealing with. Like a lever, you need to keep the wrench seated in the hex hole so it takes some downward force. But the shape of those L-wrenches, the downward force on the handle can make the torque go in a strange direction and isn’t exactly optimal when the fastener is tight.

I’m not saying that it’s impossible to use, but it isn’t the best design for a tool (which is why most people who use them often have T-handles or driver bits or ratchet bits). With the T-handle, it is much easier to maintain the downward force while twisting.

Not trying to start some controversial thing here, just stating that L-Shaped wrenches are more difficult to use, especially the trash ones that come with flat pack furniture.

>>1391753
>>1391752
Oh jesus have you ever used the shitty ones that come with “Some Assembly Required” Walmart stuff? After you’re done building the thing, tightening less than a dozen fasteners, the head of the pot metal wrench will be twisted. And that’s not even using much force because it’s particle board and plastic crap that you’re working with.

Use pic related and then use a regular screwdriver and you will understand.

>>1391766
oh so it's not specific to hex socket stuff then?

>>1391761
this makes perfect sense

>>1391787
It’s mostly hex wrenches because it’s a simple and cheap design. Those screwdrivers get tossed into lots of Craftman tool sets but they’re useless.

And while the L-shaped hex wrenches are common because they’re cheap and easy to manufacture, they’re normally not the best for the job.

>>1391145
>>1391221

I mean, we have some shit at the shop or in the vans that we can all use. Like fishtape, glowrods, electric saws, and they provide all hardware/cabling/drill bits. But yeah, stuff like screwdrivers, tin snips, linesmans, handsaws, that's all stuff we need to already have. Not having basic shit basically proves you're inexperienced. Does your company actually buy that stuff for you on your first day?

>>1391795
Drop the trip faggot.

>>1391787
Stop feeding trips faggot.

>>1392354
Phone company, yes. For awhile it was taking too long for them to order a drill for me so I brought my own. They are so retarded I got a bitchin hammer drill because they weren't buying cordless drill that year. because ????

Never had a problem getting anything else.

>copper splicing rig costs $8-10k
>fiber splicing rig costs $15-40k

>>1389786
how do you think these >>1389766 look when you strip down the fancy plastic off?

>>1392909
That’s like saying a hammer still works the same if you take the handle off.

The whole point was you can get a steady, centered downward force with the T-Handles which is difficult to obtain with the basic L-shaped wrenches.

>>1392911
big wrenches are sturdy enough, because the bolts they unscrew are also big and sturdy
the little shits are for set screws
if you need a better grip, you can always use a wrench on the hex wrench itself
if you strip those, you should've cleaned the gunk from the bolt head or you weren't using the correct wrench size

>>1392918
Never said it’s impossible to use them without stripping them. OP is complaining about strength under <1/8”, so something is wrong with the application.

I still get a little nervous on real tight stuff even with 1/4”+ hex heads. Playing around with BMX bicycles for years and years when I was younger, I have had to break loose some messed up 6mm and 8mm bolts (especially when you have all different types of steel and aluminum together) and I would rather have a ratchet and hex socket bit than trying to get much leverage on an L-wrench. Seen so many stripped to hell bolts on cranks.

>>1392932
You have to be using garbage bolts, I've had nothing but good luck using hex socket head cap screws.

>>1392935
Question: have you used the alternative tools?

There’s probably a reason the cheap hex keys get thrown in every tool kit but anybody who used them often has T-Handles and/or socket bits. They work better.

>>1392382
yeah i mean, if we used a rig that cost 20k they obviously wouldnt expect us to buy that lol

I went to an interview once for a small ISP when i was traveling and wanted a job for a few months in middle-of-nowhere ohio, and they gave us all a list of tools we needed to buy ourselves that totaled ~1500 USD. Hell no

>>1392937
have you tried not being a shitposting tripfag cunt.

>>1391795
>based ball-end hex wrenches
those are the ones you want desu

>>1393101
>no response
I don’t think that anon has used anything besides the basic L-shaped hex keys. That’s the only way somebody would defend using them over a better tool.

>A: power drills are easier to use than old school pic related
>B: nah, you must have a shitty drill bit if you can’t use the manual drill
>A: So B, have you used an electric drill?
>B:.....

And there was no shitposting cuntery until you got here. Welcome!

>>1392932
>especially when you have all different types of steel and aluminum together
if those corrode you are fucked either way
two types of metal + acidic / base solution around starts shitty corrosion that can basically weld the two metals

had an issue with a salt & pepper grinder with aluminum shaft and a bronze screw
eventually unscrewed it, but was not fun

>>1394353
Yeah it sucks. The worst is the aluminum crank arms with a steel spindle, steel pedals going into it, and steel hardware. The most splines the spindles have, the worse it seems to get. If people don’t use anti-seize on it and the bike is neglected, it can be fun. The pinch bolts, the chainwheel bolt are always hex keys. And the main bolts that screw into the spindle will be 6mm or 8mm hex keys and kids will tighten the hell out of them instead of using some Loctite because they tend to come loose on this style of crank.

At least pic related has the steel inserts for the pedals. Earlier and cheaper models don’t have those. So basically with the aluminum threads, the first set of pedals you bolt onto those arms will likely be the last set of pedals that go on.

kill yourself

>>1392354
Hell i would never buy tools i need only for my work. The Company has to provide everything that is needed to get my work done the right way. If i need/want a tool in the shop i bring the tool with me for a day or two if i have it at home.

>>1389766
You're still a faggot for being a tripfag, but for once you post a quality manufacturer of tools.

>>1393110
lol until you use a big one and you break the ball off trying to loosen something

>>1394486
>grind it down
>now you have pleb normal hex key

>>1394470
Hey man I never said that cheap tools are better or as good as pro level stuff. I like my few Klein tools I have, but as a weekend warrior my $20 Craftsman screwdrivers do just as well as my $60 Klein screwdrivers. $6 Harbor Freight screwdrivers are still trash. I’m a realist.

If I was tellin the boss to buy something we need for the shop, fuck yeah I’m going to suggest something good.

>>1394389
>The most splines the spindles have, the worse it seems to get.
is that some performance thing? what's wrong with square head spindle ends

>>1391734
>>depending on your master to supply you with tools so that you can work

Yet you are relying on that master to put food on the table arent you.
Allowing him to nickel and dime you even more by forcing you to foot the bill for tools?

Stupid practice pushed by stupid people

>>1394506
The one pair of aluminum cranks I had when I rode BMX had the square spindle and the arms were never a true 180deg. And after some abuse, they were like 10deg off. And the pinch bolts to hold them on the spindle don’t hold that well because it’s aluminum and it stretched and eventually cracked. That’s when I switched to all chromoly with no pinch bolt like pic related.

The spline thing, it’s just different designs. But I imagine with more smaller splines instead of the square, there would be a tighter fit and less room for play. It also means it’s easier to strip and those seem to seize even worse if people don’t take care of them. I don’t think there is a correct answer, it’s a give and take thing.

>>1394522
Yes but then one day when the master goes under, the guy with all his own tools can start working literally anywhere the next day.

>>1389755
i fuckin hate small allen bolts and threads of any kind. i attempted to dream up some kind of magnetic bolt or something for a threadless solution but not sure. best idea was a magnetic induced locking dowel. pls someone invent it i will buy them all.

>>1389759
that's a problem of your allen wrench being fucked
Grinding the tip down can help, just dont let it go too hot or it will be round again in no time

>>1395523
I’m guessing the problem is also that a +/- 0.1mm (or whatever it is) tolerance in manufacturing the hex key and the bolt makes a big difference on a 1.5mm key whereas it’s hard to notice on a 10mm key and bolt.

well, now that allen wrenches officially suck what should I do with all these?

>>1395981
Melt them together into one giant allen wrench

>>1395523
>magnetic threadless dowel
You need threads for clamping force and tiny little bitch magnet pins won't ever cut the mus.
What about quarter turn fasteners?

>>1395981
give them away at halloween

>>1395981
Bulk sell to a rube on Craigslist.

>>1392354
>Does your company actually buy that stuff for you on your first day?
Anon, employers in civilized countries provide tools for their workers.

>>1396023
they aren't secure enough for certain applications, but thanks!
yeah about clamping force - what if it had multiple slots on the inside so the tightness could be altered. ill try make one some day
>>1395981
buy parktool allen keys they are decent

>>1396048
well damn. I'm in the third biggest city in the U.S. and that's definitely not the norm around here

>>1395981
I can’t stand loose keys like that. I have a whole bag of loose old half rusted ones laying around somewhere. Should do this >>1396035

>>1396219
I still can’t figure out if ParkTool is good by overall tool standards or just good by bicycle mechanic standards. They’re not complete Chineseum but are they better than Kobalt or Craftsman?

>>1396270
To each his own, but I've always had good luck with Kobalt hand tools. Ratchet sets are decently priced, especially at Christmas. I bought a set of 12 Allen wrenches that came with a really sturdy handle, too

>>1396270
Please post more of your amazing life and items so we can see how unworthy we are and how much we should suck your cock you tripcunt faggot.

>>1396270
whew, that craftsman toolbox is in rough shape.

I have a heck of a lot of weight in mine but it's not dented up with sagging drawers yet.

>>1389755

Torx for everything

>>1396459
>we can see how unworthy we are and how much we should suck your cock you tripcunt faggot.

Where do you get this insane drivel from?

Seek professional help before you do something stupid.

>>1396270
I got one of those long magnets from HF and made labels for it.

Goddammit I hate allen wrenches. Why the fuck are companies still using them? Are phillips screws that much more expensive or something?

>>1396305
Never said Kobalt was bad. Good weekend warrior stuff but their prices vary. Same as current Craftsman where they’re great with the Xmas sale prices but at full price, HF is nearly as good got half the price.

>>1396543
Oh it lived quite a life. It was neglected for awhile in high humidity and then buried in a truck for 1500mi and the top part got crushed by something. At this rate I will need something a bit bigger soon.

>>1396459
We’re all on 4chan

>>1396923
Nifty. Could probably drill different size holes in wood for them too and make some sort of rack. Whatever works. I don’t need a 2nd and 3rd set of regular L-shaped hex keys in the toolbox so I have all the loose ones in some little bag buried away.

>>1396947
I’ll take an allen head over a phillips head if it’s tight.

>>1396947
Allens are great anon, you're doing something wrong...

>>1396947
>suggesting phillips as a serious replacement for hex

ok you're completely retarded

>>1396947
>seriously wanting Philips on literally anything

>>1396947
>Why the fuck are companies still using them?

They are top tier fasteners
Stop using the wrong sized keys on crappy fasteners

>>1394522
Spoken like a true retard that has never had a proper job.

If you have all your own tools then you're self sufficient and could subcontract to anybody at the drop of a hat. Sames goes for owning your own van or truck.

Try touting yourself as a mechanical fitter with no tools. They'll take you about as seriously as I'm taking you now.

>>1391252
can anyone confirm this?
if I contacted snap on would they say the same thing?

>>1394522
I gladly purchase/make my own tools rather than use the shop tools, because when you use your own shit you know what state its in and you dont know if some dickhead dropped the micrometer or left a big skid mark in the grinding vise.

Owning your own tools just ensures that the work you do is going to be good.

>>1398345
...even if the company buys you the tools they're still yours..

The "tool allowance" you get pays for tools that are then your property, anon..

>>1398360
We get a $100/year toll allowance, what the fuck are you going to buy with that? Half a vernier? Beyond that where I work they pay for all of our tooling ( end mills, tool bits, drills, etc) so I have no problem dropping some money on mics or verniers or other things that I'm going to use everyday.

>>1397033
>buy product
>time passes
>need to service it
>hex screws
>grab one of the millions of allen wrenches I keep in my box because they come with fucking everything
>try to loosen it
>doesn't loosen
>grab longer allen wrench for leverage
>still doesn't loosen
>try another allen wrench
>still nothing
>30 minutes of allen wrench fuckery passes
>head is stripped
>use drill to bore it out
>the first of 6 hex screws has finally been removed
>it's like this every fucking time
>"you're doing something wrong, anon"

What thing did I do wrong? Was it the part where I wasted time trying to do it "the right way" and didn't immediately grab my drill to remove this vile filth from my presence once and for all?

>>1398402
Yep, you must be retarded or something. Did they use red loctite on them or something? Apply heat first then.

>>1398402
If it's stripping out hex, what would even survive? Maybe torx. It if you are Canadian, there's the possibility of Robertson. But other than that, it's slotted it Phillips which are both inferior.

Hex Bit Master Race reporting in, AMA

>>1389759
>stripping screw holding insert
I'm surprised you didn't crack the insert itself

>>1398402
you sound pretty dumb, so left thread, for example

>>1398435
Worthless for most furniture, since the bolts are usually located in corners.

>>1399821

>>1399821
>>1400282
Or stick the bits into a shallow 1/4” socket

>>1396048
tell that to any mechanic/plumber/hvac tech/etc.

>>1398402
>What thing did I do wrong?

Get a wrench that fits
If you have the proper sized wrench, itll bend or snap before the fastener does

>>1400372
He said "civilized countries" not "countries where the ultra rich have brainwashed the working man into being a slave and liking it"