/diy/ - Do It Yourself

Not shakes. Those are #1s

>>1303119

Disclaimer: Not a roofer.

We just had our entire shake roof redone, total of about 1800ft^2. Bottom line cost was $17,000. And this is in southern California. Again, not an expert, but nearly $19,000 JUST to remove the shake sounds waaaaay out of line, especially with $8500 for the actual new installation sitting next to it.

>>1303122
I'm no pro, that's what Google gave me for quick thread pic.

>>1303123
Thanks for good response, I thought the same. I also quoted standing seam roofing and he said metal roofing costs 3x shingle roof price but quoted me at 30k, guys math makes no sense.

get more bids that price is ridiculous.

Sounds like a fuckoff bid because he doesn't want the job anymore.

>>1303119
I'm not a roofer, but I know the trade and I can say that the quote you were given is absolutely unacceptable.

Yes, removing cedar shingles are a pain, and will probably take a whole day, maybe half the next day, to get it all off down to the purlins... I could see there being another $1000 to $1500 thrown on the bid for the cedar removal.

My advice?
Get more bids.

>>1303128
>>1303131
>>1303132
I agree on the fuckoff bid (the joys of being a young homeowner) I will look for more bids, thanks for the help guys, I thought that was ungodly expensive.

>>1303132
>perlins
hahahahahaha wtf?

Why do ameribros use shingles instead of corrugated iron/etc?

It seems hugely time consuming/expensive/etc.

>>1303249
$
HOA
Preference

>>1303119
Usa. Roofer here. 400$ average a square( 100sf) plus 400 dumpster. That will get you in the ballpark of price.

>>1303249
Mix of price and American mentality. Most things here are not built to last. Commercial buildings where companys invest large sums of money typically have metal roofs and stone or concrete siding.
Residential homes are built with 20year vinyl siding and 20 - 40( lifetime =40yrs) shingles. Manufactures are keeping their market open.

>>1303272
>>1303269

>>1303280
Rotflol. Was an op in /s and had it pre set.
Left it on.

Feel like under the bridge by red hot chilly peppers. " I walk on the streets and she knows who I am........."

It helps in arguments

>>1303132
A day? For 500 square feet? Do you show up at 9 AM take a 3 hour lunch bookended by a pair of two hour breaks and then call it a day at 5? Me and two other guys took down a shake roof of a 600 square foot house in 2 hours was a pair of sawzalls and a large crowbar. No meth needed. We had it covered in plywood by the end of the day. Two days later it was finished with asphalt shingles, flashing and a new gutter along one side.

>>1303301

this, get some friends some beers and a weekend and do it yourself.
start removing the shake before the weekend and have your friends come over early saturday.

beers of course after the work and bbq is optional but needed for more suitable manpower

>>1303249
Shingles are cheap to buy, cheap to install and can last decades in some environments. They are also cheap to repair as it is often just one or two here and there every season instead of needing a whole new roof after 20-40 years. That said, huge fire hazard. They are not up to code in many places and are getting rarer. Kind of like thatch in Europe.

>>1303272
My house has wood siding. It is 65 years old and still going strong. Really though, owners are more likely to replace something because it is out of fashion rather then it being worn out. I can't count the number of places I've seen that had horrid reno after horrid reno done on them. I'm not talking about the quality of the work or the materials either. I lived in a place that had a kitchen reno done in the early 70s and my god was it ugly (picture semi-related). Super dark 'hand painted' Spanish tile everywhere (walls, floors, and countertops), harvest gold appliances, trash compactor, dark wood cabinets, fluorescent lighting, the works. 30 years later it was ugly as sin but everything but the dishwasher was original. Every decade is just as bad. Just wait until stainless steel goes out of fashion. There will be a reckoning.

>>1303119
>literally jumped to 27k

>>1303301
>down a shake roof of a 600 square foot house in 2 hours was a pair of sawzalls and a large crowbar.

I call bullshit, because that's not how a cedar shingle roof gets stripped.

The entire job has to be done by ripping hammers, since every single shingle was placed with 2 nails, in ripping out all those nails got to be either pulled or hammered down into the purlins to have it all flat for the new plywood sheathing.

It's terribly labor intensive, hence a whole day, and I've never seen a shingle roof stripped and re-sheathed in a single day.
Now, I have seen smart (non mexi-can'ts) crews put down sheathing as they go along, once an area is ripped of cedar they put down the ply, which seems to be a smarter way to go about it.

But then again, I'm not a roofer.

>>1303305
Style aside. That kitchen is comfy as fuck. Wish mine was that big.

>>1303355
>tfw kitchenlet with no storage and no counter space

>>1303331
Work smarter not harder buddy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hERfTiWO3pM
Must suck to know a California Mexican has more than a few IQ points on you, huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZSXKhky9VI
"Hopefully for many of the guys out there that don't know how to remove these, uh, we're gonna show them how to do it."

Once you get the roll started it goes easy. We used a big, flat crowbar though, not a fork. When done, we cut the purlins from the rafters with the sawsalls and put down new radiant barrier plywood. No point in saving a bunch of old 1x6 that are full of nails. Or you can do it like a lot of types do out here and just used a flat tipped shovel to remove or shear off the tops of the nails.

Or maybe you get paid by the hour or something?

At that price... maybe he miced your quote with his other customer that wanted Elon Musk's shingles.

>>1304318
the best warranty in the industry - the lifetime of your house, or infinity, whichever comes first.

>>1304315
First of all, I see those videos... well, I've never seen a roof in cedar that is that low of a slope.
Must be a California thing... of course when I've been to California I'm simply appalled at the complete lack of 2 story houses. Every place seemed to be nothing but 1 story ranch houses.

Here in Ohio we have actual weather and roofs are built steep to shed rain and snow, as such these steep roofs that have cedar typically take rigging and scaffolding.

Also I don't see those Mexi-can'ts wearing any anti fall harness or safety gear, here in Ohio we have to actually follow the law which means every worker the climbs a ladder has to wear a anti-fall harness tied off to a anchor point.

So let's recap: We follow the law and don't hire illegal dumb as shit Mexi-can'ts, we have to provide all proper safety equipment, roof jobs I notice where there is a cedar roof need not only guys in harness's but also scaffolding or a bill-jack lift because 2-story houses with steep roof pitch, lastly most of the time if a house has a cedar roof the H.O. is going to have it replaced with a new cedar roof and as such the purlins are left in place and de-nailed for prep for the new cedar to be layed down.

So, all this does mean that a job takes more time, but in the end we know that a job has done "Smart" by being done "Correctly" where we didn't take any shortcuts.

I'm not a roofer, I usually do a lot of interior finish, and I'd rather take 3 months to make a house perfect and have a happy client, than to do slapdash crap work in a few days like some itinerant illiterate Mexi-can't.

>>1304338
>I'm simply appalled at the complete lack of 2 story houses.
Boo hoo, we do things differently than you. Be appalled. Meanwhile, I'm appalled at the number of pedophiles you guys have per capita and how you are constantly ranked in the bottom 20 worst states to live in. But, hey, different priorities. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/04/ohio_among_worst_places_to_liv.html

>Here in Ohio we have actual weather
Congrats, you have to freeze your ass off 8 months out of the year? Meanwhile pants are optional in February here.

>Also I don't see those Mexi-can'ts
Oh, you are clever. Did you think that one up on your own or did you steal it from Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh?

>here in Ohio we have to actually follow the law which means every worker the climbs a ladder has to wear a anti-fall harness tied off to a anchor point.
Congrats, you came up with a bunch of bullshit excuses for some random videos I pulled off of YouTube. All I had to do was put up scaffolding with railings around the house. That is all that is needed and is very safe. Plus I needed it for a bunch of other work being done. But, yeah, kept bring up stupid shit unrelated to the topic at hand.

>lastly most of the time if a house has a cedar roof the H.O. is going to have it replaced with a new cedar roof
Right, cause the laws are all the same everywhere. Hey, news flash for you, cedar roofing is all but illegal in California and has been for decades. So by doing it 'correctly' here you'd get a huge fine and lose your fire insurance until the roof was replaced.

>the H.O. is going to have it replaced with a new cedar roof and as such the purlins are left in place and de-nailed for prep for the new cedar to be layed down.
And yet you said:
>have it all flat for the new plywood sheathing.
>once an area is ripped of cedar they put down the ply
Which is it? Purlins or plywood? Quit trying to move the goalposts because you got your ass handed to you.

>>1304349
But then again, we have mexiniggers. And like $3/gallon in gax taxes. And no guns. Or ammo.

>>1304355
>And no guns. Or ammo.
Look into shotguns, my friend. They are vicious motherfuckers. The fucking Germans officially protested their use during WWI as a Geneva Convention violation. The ammo is cheap and easy to find and there is nothing quite like the look on a 'badasses' face when you chamber a round. Slamfiring is also a hoot. Buckshot, birdshot, slugs, what more do you need? Much more versatile than a handgun, cheaper, easier to use, and, if you hit someone with a slug, it will put them on the ground, body armor or not. You don't even need a permit to have one in California. Just don't show this post to any of the 'bangers' (not like they can read), or they might catch on to what us rural gents have known for decades.

>>1304349

this, the cunt is just making up excuses to get famous on /diy/
mostly they are the niggers on here that say its to hard or itll take too long.

well guess what, if you have a problem you just need a better solution.

get a pitchfork and whack it off your roof OP.
then let the roofers come in and put shingles on or just do those few squre feet and save money while you learn,
do it once and youll never have to pay for it again because you know how to put them on

professionals are there to save time but cost money, anyone can do anything themselves if they just have the time and the will to learn.

Not OP but i figure since there are people in here that are able to answer my question id rather not push another useful thread off the list.

What is the expense to open a roofing business? There's a few around here and alot of labor that could be hired if needed. Also is it an easy skill to learn? I understand basic woodworking and don't imagine (no offence) that it is very difficult to learn to do.

>>1304380

>not a roofer, but I know some GCs and have done roofing before

Hardly costs anything, There's very little in the way of tools, and you don't need a bunch of commercial real estate for a shop. Exact amount is going to depend heavily on locale, but it's almost invariably going to be a cheaper start than just about any other kind of business.

And, yeah, it's not difficult.

>>1303119
Depend on the area, I got my 2500 square double shingle roof replaced for about $4000.

Does your area hail? You can get a free roof if it does

>>1304380
It depends on your level of sophistication, but not much. For residential, an old flatbed 2T and somewhere to park it. My uncle runs a residential/commercial biz out of his 3 car garage... and has for over 40 years. Kids run it now mostly.

>>1303249
They are fairly popular in colder climates with heavy snows here in the US.

>>1304794
>Does your area hail? You can get a free roof if it does.

Not always.
Lot of insurance companies will no longer replace an entire roof after a bad hailstorm.
Most will only authorize replacement of individual damaged shingles.
Rural areas around where I live get storms a few times a year, some insurance now requires a special hail rider or they won't repair.
They now refuse to cover most metal roofs unless it is 16 gauge corrugated.
Tile roofs also need the additional rider.
I deliver building materials to job sites.
Most of the old time roofers tell me that before solid decking was mandatory on new and redo roofs the shingles could take hail impact and flex allowing the hail to bounce off an no damage, same with flat roofs that used an inch or more of gravel. With all the torch down and membrane systems the foods no longer absorb impacts but instead get holes.

Also with a shingle roof if you have an overlay, shingle over shingles, and you had a previous claim, the insurance people will deny you in an instant.
Lot of people used to get a total replacement covered but just have an overlay done and split the money for removal with the roofer.

>>1303249
>Le metal roof meme
>Lol fuck aesthetics, I'm lazy
This is how you get fucking people going out in public in sweatpants

>>1303249
These are becoming standard here in WI.

>>1305840
metal roofing is the only kind of roofing done in australia. because it's the cheapest. you want a roofer to do it and to not DIY this if you dont have someone who has done it before. if you underestimate how long it will take you can look forward to not having a roof when it rains.

also wew at your prices. a whole new metal roof with gutters, weather barrier is about 5k in australia. your prices are fucked.

dont call some guy, roofing is something any mexican can get into. you want to look for roofing companies. like, big places that just do roofing all day, every day not some faggot with a truck and a nailgun.

>>1303119
depends on where you are. pizzas cost $50 in hayward.

>>1305832
>Lot of insurance companies will no longer replace an entire roof after a bad hailstorm.

Just avoid the 10 worst insurance companies in Ameria

https://www.justice.org/sites/default/files/file-uploads/AAJ_Report_TenWorstInsuranceCompanies_FINAL.pdf

I made like 250% my lifetime house insurance premium thanks to a hail...

>>1305852
haven't seen one of them in southern WI

>>1303305
whats wrong with stainless?

>>1306847
Whats wrong with chrome? Whats wrong with avocado green? What is wrong with any faddish colors? They go out of style. People are into stainless because it makes it look like you have a professional kitchen, just like people loved chrome back in the 50s because it was expensive and classy. Most of the stainless steel out there is the cheap shit anyway. It doesn't resist rust as well as the professional stuff but shows fingerprints and scratches like they are under a spotlight. God forbid you don't scour it with the grain or it will look like shit forever. But lordy is it just so fashionable! Until it is not and everyone tosses their perfectly good appliances in the landfill to get some other bullshit they'll do the same thing with in 15 years.

>>1303119
its bullshit anon. roofed for a few years when i was younger. shake comes up easier than reg shingles

>>1306860
stainless will never go out of fashion. im sorry that you took iron wool pads to your stainless backsplashes and they ended up looking like shit. but people get stainless because you can just wipe it down and it doesnt corrode. just wipe it down when it gets dirty instead of letting your food scraps cake into the wall.

I'm sorry that we dont have any indestructonium in stock to line your kitchen walls. but grout is a cunt and there's really nothing else available in flat seemless panels.

they're actually standard in hygeine situations because it's self sanitizing and part of the point is that it's shiny so you can see old rotten food. desu i'd love a professional kitchen that you can hose down like a butcher shop.

>>1303249
Its because in certain regions we get hail/heavy storms on the reg and it sounds like the second coming

>>1306897
I don't even have stainless dude. Quit projecting so hard. I have been in quite a few homes looking to buy a house, though. I've also read a lot of reviews because I needed to get a few kitchen appliances for my new house. Good stainless is nice. Most stainless is is the cheap stuff. It rusts, it's thin, it scratches easily. Unless you are paying 2 grand for a new stove you are not getting the good kind of stainless steel.

Just look around though. What colors have you always been able to get appliances in? White and black. Stainless? Not so much. Do you remember beige? Harvest gold, avocado, and brown? Blue, green, and pink pastels? Chrome? Two-tone combos? Fads. Sooner or later something else is gonna come along and stainless will be old and busted. Utilitarian. Only suitable for restaurant kitchens. You'll walk into a home with stainless steel appliances and chuckle to yourself about how dated it makes the house look.

>>1306936
>electric
ahh you youngins will never know how nice it was to have your food cooled naturally by ice. they sure knew how to make fridges back in the old days. you just replaced the ice. now when the compressor goes you need a new fridge every decade or two. i'm still running the same ice box i had when i was a kid and it works so much better than the cheap crap they make nowdays that's just made to be thrown away.

>>1304338
>>>1304315
>First of all, I see those videos... well, I've never seen a roof in cedar that is that low of a slope.
>Must be a California thing... of course when I've been to California I'm simply appalled at the complete lack of 2 story houses. Every place seemed to be nothing but 1 story ranch houses.

Well, given that "honey, did the earth move?" isn't a sexual question in California... Single story houses make more sense. Also, in some areas, you don't want multiple stories as the upper ones would be harder to cool.

>>1306324
I live/lived in Dane, Columbia, green, rock and Lafayette counties and see them all the time.

>>1303321
Animorphkek

>>1303119
Insurancefag here: I don't have my estimating tools available to me so I can't give you exact prices, but $27k is high for an 800sf roof. If your floor square footage is 800sf, you have more than 800sf for your roof. Either way, thats a rather small house and he didn't estimate correctly, or wood shake is more than I remember

The roofer's quandary is that your roof is probably ancient as wood shakes haven't been used since they 80s. Its not allowed in many building codes because its literally putting kindling on your roof. There are some fire rated shake materials on the market, but they're really expensive and offer no benefits over any other roof materials.

Also, because wood shake roofs didn't need plywood sheathing, you have 1x4 or 1x6 spaced sheathing (look in your attic). This is generally not a nailable surface for any modern roof material, crews can't move as fast during the demolition or reinstall phase. So they'll have to use the proper plywood for roofing over the spaced sheathing, or remove the sheathing and start over. Most roofers doing repairs will charge $140 per sheet for repairs, a little less for the whole thing.
>but plywood is only $20 a sheet!
Yes and its heavy, they still have to cut, space, align, nail, and otherwise install the plywood. 8x4 is 48 sq feet, add 10-15% waste for all materials on a roof. He'll have to add roofing felt, 15# is common. 30# is better.

Then you have the actual roofing material, if you go with asphalt shingles, 20 year weight, you can easily see $165 per square (100 sq ft). I suggest going with a 30 year. Unless your house can hold them, don't bother looking at clay tile, concrete tile, slate, or anything else. $400 for a rolloff dumpster, but its probably $3500 minimum for remove of 800sf of wood shake and the current sheathing.

>>1308311
You've got anciliaries that are cheap (under $400) by themselves, drip edge, vents, ridge caps, chimney flashing, who knows what else. They add up quickly, and you should have proper ventilation for best efficiency. Plastic is fine because its cheap, but they won't last 30 years. Metal is good but will dent.

A common thing for contractors is to price themselves out of the job; if he sees something on the house that he won't want to deal with, if he thinks you're a twat, if he just doesn't have time they'll jack their price way too fucking high to ensure they don't get your business. You mention you were chatting, maybe he realized you're not worth the job. You can check material price through home depot or whatever, then consider labor is probably going to be about the same price plus 20%, theres your price. Because your roof is old as jesus, add another 20% for whatever they'll find.

>>1304388
Yes and no, you need a lot of insurance, builders insurance, licenses, and typically a truck. If you roll up to a roofing job in your honda civic, people will think you're a moron and not want you to touch their shingles. Also, not many mexicans are willing to use their truck to pick up materials, drive the crew, and supply their own tools. But, profit margins for roofers is retarded. Its something like 35% profit on every job.