/diy/ - Do It Yourself

K. While you're at it, you might want to check thread >>102734 too.

>>107578

My plan seems a little more well thought out then theirs.

Just saying.

Maine? Pick a better country than America for a project like this.

>>107582
why?

If you get old farmland it will be good. If your buying none old farmland be prepared to move a lot of rocks. Maine soil is riddled with boulders.

Okay, piece of advice from someone who lived in a co-housing type situation:

Make sure that there is a significant monetary or work buy-in. You should mandate that people are either spending a few hundred dollars a month or throwing in 20+ hours of work towards community projects (building a potato barn for everyone to use). Otherwise, you will get useless piece-of-shit drifters, druggies, hippies, nutjobs, and general scum.

Always, always, always, make sure everyone who lives there has a sense of respect for others, and a spine. Be extremely upfront about your expectations so that people can be thrown out without any drama.

>>107577
>self sufficient "commune"
Sounds like a terrorist camp in my ears.
They'll blame you for anti-corporatism and ship you off to capitalist camps.

>>107588
capitalism camp?


WHY DIDN'T ANY TELL ME ABOUT THAT WHEN I WAS A KID!

god damn this sounds cool. america would actually be the perfect place to do it as the the USD drop the fuck out spreading total anarchy. agree with post above get people in who want to work an honest living.

Where about in Maine are you looking to set up? Maine native myself just curious about how far up you are planning to be.

OP can you tell me how much you are paying for land up there? Just curious, I wouldn't mind looking into having a little plot of land where I could spend a few weeks during the summer for vacations.

>Look up Maine land prices
>46.3 acres with cabin
>$65,000

Jesus H., that is amazing.

>>107609
Yea i'm paying 20k for 30 acres with nothing on them but trees. Taxes are only 250 bucks total for the whole plot.
And its gonna be near Houlton maine.

You do realize this is going to be a huge sausage fest of it pulls trough...

>Off the power grid homestead!! Comepletely set up & functioning w/ solar and wind. High quality construction. Includes 4 room cabin, insulated & heated 24x36 garage/workshop & a separate 24 x 36 garage. Extremely private & quiet! Private Pond!

>61 acres
>$119,900

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Hodgdon-Mills-Rd-Linneus-ME-03730/2122384980_zpid/

godamnnnn

new plan

everyone move to maine

Maine native here.

If the land is near millinocket, you are going to be screwed by Roxanne Quimby.

If the land is above Greenville/Moosehead lake region, expect snow. LOTS of snow.

If the land is near Portland, expect liberals.

If the land is near Bath, expect a heavy goverment presence (defence contractor there.)

>>107650
also, dont try to settle any islands. Lobstah men are wary of outsiders.

>>107650

This man speaks the truth.

Fl native , transplanted to Maine on 25 acres parents are converting to self sufficient. AWESOME. Fl has been torn to pieces by the machine in my father lifetime. Ive seen far to much of it in my thirty years. This place is beautiful since june we have raised a 100 meatbirds 12 pigs , and expanded our orchard space nearly three times from what it was.( As a aside does anyone know of a good fruit tree nursery around here?) Fl gardening and tree work I am a fucking pro but this temperate clime not yet , I'm working on it. Managed to get all this years firewood off the property. I can really see how you people are so rugged up here. We're looking to raise bees this spring as well. Again tips or contacts anyone? Anyone do dairy ?

This sounds like an awesome idea.
Unfortunately, it has pretty big potential to turn ugly. One, who you let in. Be selective. Make sure your guys are hard workers who won't give it up when the going gets tough.
Uglier would be the potential of a power struggle. Sam, I'm guessing you're going to be in charge. Make sure not to get drunk with power, don't rule as a monarch. I'd suggest (depending on how many people live there) to form some sort of congress or other decision-making body where everyone has a say.

But if you guys can make it work (I have faith in you), it has the potential to be pretty amazing. I'd love to be a part of it, unfortunately right now I can't just uproot my life to do so. Maybe in a few years I'll come see how you guys are doing.

Hey, OP of >>102734 here.

Since both of our projects share similar goals, how would you like to form an alliance of sorts?

While I would not live in x-town, I would live in k-town. Though the question then becomes "how long would I live in k-town."

Just pushing it on every board I call home, huh?

>>108861
I was about to say there was another person with the same idea.

Still gonna fail if you have it as just a random community.
You might as well just make an apartment complex.

People need goals and ideals to live for, otherwise the become lazy and worthless and are a strain on the community. A simple community with no real aims or purpose other than escapism will get you both nowhere.

>This is easier, cheaper and faster than a log cabin. More light. Same view. Warmer in the winter. Cooler in the summer. And you're not living in a ziplock bag.

>If you live in a woodland, I cannot imagine any building technique that would be more eco than a wofati. This has more than 90% of the building materials coming right off the land it is built on. A tipi made of skins could be more eco I suppose. A log cabin could be almost as eco - if you build it Proenneke style. If there is a building style that is more eco, then I would really like to hear about it.
http://www.richsoil.com/wofati.jsp

I kinda had an idea along these lines.

My idea differs though. Mine would just be in a large house with 3 or so families and the goal is for the families to pool certain resources to pull themselves out of poverty.

The few families already established in the hosue would interview potential families to live with them. Once they do they'll share duties like taking care of kids so everyone can go to work, cooking meals and gardening so a decent portion of their food comes cheaper. And each home would set ground rules like every child must go to school and over age kids have to go to school or work not just be freeloaders. They'll also set up ground rules like no alcohol if it's a problem and no drugs or anything else that can be a drain on finances. After a family gets on their feet, move into their own place or something they can then gift the home with something it can use like a new water heater or something.

Also the OP's of all these commune ideas need to realize they're not going to be supreme rulers of these places.

Expect the masses to want to do something you think is really stupid, be forced to go along with it (or make them leave your property) and have the whole project taking a complete 180 into something you totally don't dig.

>>107848
>>107848

This.

I am starting a similar project which I had in hibernation for a couple of years.

I know from experience the hardest part isn't finding the land. Or growing the food. Or making your machines work.

It is finding people willing to get along.

When I restart my project it will be top down rule only. My way or the highway is the only way to make a project like this work. If you don't believe me then try democracy and see how it works.

That then means you need to be the expert on just about everything because you won't have time to wait for everyone to stand around and reach a consensus about everything.

I would also do an extensive background check on anyone you take on. And figure out how to get them off the land in a couple of hours if they start to wig out on everyone.

I actually had one guy in my project wig out on me and the cops were absolutely no help.

Getting people to buy in is a bad idea. Your tools, your equipment your land. If you are on a budget then start slow.

There are a couple of good books that were written about the history of communes in the U.S. Big surprise most didn't work as their was no strong central leadership. Most people just stood around until the dope was gone and went to the next big happening.

>>108900
imo that 180 will involve op realizing the people there are "cooler" than him and he is as alienated there as he is in his current life.

>>108900

I'd go with the get the fuck off my property route. That doesn't mean you can't listen to people in fact you would need to as many people will have different skill sets.

But I know from experience that people are just absolutely full of themselves these days. I have been a tradesperson for over ten years and one of the main reasons I am leaving the business and getting into farming is just seeing the absolute sheer dificulty of getting along with and reasoning with people. If I had listened to how my customers wanted to do things over the years I would have a trail of broken down houses in my wake. Everyone thinks they are a fucking expert. In fact the less they know about something the more they want to chime in. They think watching TV for eight hours a day makes them an expert in all areas of life.

>>107577
>Just a group of people who wanna try to make it on their own
and grow weed. And smoke weed. And be stoners. Until the money they stole from their parents runs out, and there's no more weed because everyone's too stoned all the time to tend to it and keep it growing, then you all move back in with your parents until your sober up again. Faggots.

I tried to login to your site to make a couple of comments.

You REALLY think people are going to give you their phone number?

Fuck dude. You must be really new to 4 chan. I am hesitant to tell these fuckers what state I live in let alone my phone number.

You are in way over your head. I can already tell.

>>108918
if you grow weed outside it will
a) be shitty weed
b) be male
c) you're a fucking idiot.

>2012
>not starting a doomsday cult

>>108928

Outdoor weed can just be made into hash, so it doesn't matter anyway.

>>108928
Learn to harden your weed. It can survive outside just fine.

>>108928 you dont know what you are talking about

fucking retarded

>>108861

I'm in. How?

>>109167

Both projects could agree to share information and not compete with each other. That would just be in the beginning, though.

>>107577
What the fuck?! God damn its 14k for a acre of land here in virginia. And thats for unimproved lot covered in trees and rocks on a steep hill near a dirt road. Seriously. How much for 1 acre?

Sounds a lot like some other experiment tried back in the 19th century. Sounds kind of fun though.

>buying land
>2011
>not creating a nest egg for retirement
>not using your savings to move to a remote part of the Alaskan/Canadian wilderness
>not living in a log cabin you built by yourself by hand in isolation in the wilderness for 30 years
>ishygddt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke

If I was going to have a self-sufficient house and property, why would I want a bunch of 4channers there?

Fuck your commune, I'll do it myself.

>>107577
>>108861

have you guys read animal farm?
I'm curious how much thought you've given to the psycho-politics you'll encounter. What happens if you have a 51/49 split over [something that slowly/inevitably becomes] a major issue, like 2 conflicting personalities, will you eject nearly half the commune? Do you think it would still be sustainable after that kind of a loss?
I admire your optimism, your ideals however...

I wish i had the money to do this. I would also surround the whole thing with a wall like ops pic but near the property line. Impossible to do here in virginia. Local municipalities keep an iron grip on what you can do with the land. If it lowers land value at all its not allowed. They like to keep it high for tax reasons, its why its so expensive here. Also it doesn't help that they sit on huge tracts of land they never sell so it makes an artificial shortage, further driving up prices.

>>109798
If you would allow me to interject, Animal Farm was based on an authoritarian, borderline fascist, state following an intense revolution and civil war; or as I've taken to calling it, Soviet Fascism, or Fascism plus Marxism. These projects, unlike the Soviet experiments, would more than likely be based on mutual aid, cooperation, and decentralization of power.

Any heavily centralized society lends itself to corruption and abuse of power. We must, therefore, reject centralization in favor of decentralized, participatory, consensus democracy extended to most, if not all facets of life concerning the community as a whole.

I could draw some concept drawings for you, all I need to know is what materials you will have, number of residents, style of housing (houses, barracks, etc), budget and how big you want the actual fort to be.

I have dreamed about doing something like this for a long time, only inviting my best friend and 3-4 others to participate, and running a sort of co-op serfdom on my land. I then realized that my best friend, though I love him as a bro, is a lazy and complacent manchild who has never tried to move out of his parents house. The others I would invite would spend 100% of their time trying to grow pot, and the last one would butt heads with me over everything because he wants to be the boss.

That is just with people I like, It is hard to imagine trying this with strangers.

>>109805
the problem, quite simply, is cronyism, not the semantics of political idealogies.

>>109818
How would cronyism affect decentralized, consensus, democracy?

>>109821
How will this actually be implemented? you do realise this is the hard part, not building cabins or digging wells? what if later joiners [who will inevitably outnumber the founders eventually, even if it takes a generation+deaths from old age] want to change this system?
Hitler rose to power by general consent.

>>109827
Hitler rose to power with a 43% plurality, mostly based on coercion and street battles rather than the public's general interest in his ideas.

>>109831
ok, i see you like facts and they're nice.
but what new or proven ideas for this:
>How will this actually be implemented?

>>109837
The Free Territory was mostly based on decentralized democracy and self-management. It worked relatively well until the Soviet Union took it out.

Apparently the Makhnovist FAQ is banned.

http://nig.gr/6RR

>>109850
tl;dr
it all just sounds a bit like being a mormon to me tbh. imo you are as much of the cause of societies problems as anyone else, and instead of trying to make it better you're running away, which in turn makes things worse still. I assure you the problems are human in nature and will come with you even if you leave the rest of us behind.

I'm not persuaded you've considered the long term very well either, reduced genetic diversity, and this:
>what if later joiners [who will inevitably outnumber the founders eventually, even if it takes a generation+deaths from old age] want to change this system?
and obviously i mean drastically/to the point that the founders want to leave or are ejected.

also, how will ownership of the land be managed in this 'commune'? e.g. what if the commune elects to eject OP after 2 years; will he really be willing to walk away empty handed and possibly broke?

What is the [taxonomical] name of the animal in your picture?

My guess is shit will fall apart due to false-popularism, but then anything, starting from "lol we build a barn", could fuck this up.

That's what makes this so interesting, how it all falls apart.

It's interesting to see that the casual language being used by the people associated has more to do with 'enlightened despotism' than anything else.

...is this going to be another failing commune with no concept of private property?

>>109976

>Maine

No thanks.

We've moved past this, OP. Enjoy your cholera.

If your gonna do it, though, ring up TLC and History. When you get back to civilized society you'll have enough money to clear up your pleurisy.

>>109977

LMFAO

that feel when I'm not american...

Thanks to all the haters and support!


I know a few people are still interested so come on over join the forum add your info and advice.


www.thekfort.com


There's only gonna be a very slight "communal" aspect to it in the sense that we'll only have one main "lodge" to eat and sleep in at first until additional ones can be made.


Its not like I'm asking people to donate all their possessions and move out to maine and make me their leader

>>110041

If this is in Maine you are going to have a severe attrition rate. Most people simply are not built for the kind of environment we grew up in. It's to cold, to remote, to harsh and to crazy for most people. That said, good luck!

>>110174
thank you for the support!

Yea I've lived in rural western NY for my whole life. 2-4 ore more feet of snow every winter is the norm.


Join up on the website even if you just wanna watch us fail!


www.thekfort.com

so this is like a street gang, but inna woods?

why not start a business with some bros instead?

>>110184

Sorta kinda haha

>>110185

Business and friends should never mix. We'll eventually be trying to open a "adventure school" where rich college kids get their parents to pay for them to go live how we'll be living every day up there.


Imagine getting some dumbass college pussy to give us 10,000 bucks to make him into a man

http://www.mediafire.com/?0prj4ugrsncv8sq
The 50$ and up underground house

I didn't want to join the forum just for this, I hope it is useful to you. Very good luck from Ingleland

>>110189
oh man!
thank you so so so much that's such a great resource!

Wait, so what's the point? Are we talking neo-Amish here or something? Disenfranchised with society so we're starting over? Want to live off the land because Fuck Yeah?

There's a lot of seasonal work up in maine. Blueberry picking, potato harvesting, other manually intensive farm jobs. In the winter there is logging.

There is a lot of organic farming in Maine, which tends to attract rich people. Being around them is good for networking.

you could assemble a crew and do seasonal work. See how you like it up there.

Any maple trees on the property?

It will require a lot of manual labor until automated, i.e. tubing and processing, but maple syrup farms make fucking bank.

I saw a farm in Vermont where they have tubing that runs from each tree on their 50 acre farm into a collection vat down hill. Guy basically drilled a small hole into each tree, collected the tube line, and let it collect. Sold syrup to another farm in the area who then refined/processed it and sold it. He made a shit ton.

>>110204
It's more of a "don't wanna work for anyone might as well build my own sorta place" kinda thing

>>110216
Yea this is what I'm counting on for the majority of our income. Just small, season little odd jobs.
>>110219

I'm not sure, but if there are we will definitely be looking into this!

Lets walk through the possible societary structures which could (or could not) make this work:

>Since there's so few, a Communist society could work. Everything is open for everyone else to use only the means which they need, and everyone puts in equal to make the system work.

Except the problem is no one, even in such a small community, is ever equal. One guy could injure himself, or another could be way smarter and demand more for his contribution. The injured guy would become a huge burden to take care of, effectively bringing everyone else down. Also if the smarter guy becomes an essencial force in the community (which he probably will), he can threaten to leave, and everyone will throw wealth at him to stay. Or that same guy could form a sub-gang within the community which overthrows everyone else in cooperation power. Communism fails because no one is truly ever equal, and you'd have to form a band of idiots to have them willingly hinder their natural, unaviodable competative instincts.

>So then what about Socialism? A community gives one governing force the power to make decissions over the appropriate distribution of wealth?

It becomes the same situation as the "Smart Guy" in the previous example (except they're not smart, more than likely the complete opposite). Much like a government in a Socialist organization, one guy (group) gains power and decides "I am the one who needs the most in order to distribute the wealth, so I get the most!" As a result, he forms "favors" with certain people and simultaniously decides that THEY need more than others, and distributes everyone else's wealth to his cronies and partners. It becomes an inefficient distribution of wealth for everyone. Many people work hard to support those who don't. In a way, this system is similar to a Monarchy, and is equally undesirable.

>more options to come next post...

>>110240

>continued...

>What about Anarchy? Everyone produces on this land what they want for themselves.

Then there's nothing stopping the others from infrindging on the wealthiest and taking their stuff. Not only that, but everyone would form an organization to acquire said stuff, forming in effect a society, destroying Anarchy regardless if intended or not.

>What about a Capitalist society? If you don't produce a product, you starve. If you don't cooperate with others, you're constantly working to make everything you need, which stops you from enjoying your life.

Well let's look at everything. Everyone has the ability to produce anything they want. Paul could produce potatoes, and John can produce potatoes too! So competition between Paul and John will create greater efficiency in the production of potatoes, and make the price of potatoes fall since they're always in competition. Since there is competition, there won't be a monopoly on potatoes, so Paul can't charge whatever he wants for his sought-after potatoes. If he does, new members can enter the market for potatoes, and force Paul to bring down the price. Paul would either have to pay the newcomer to stop making potatoes, or lower his price in order to compete.

>continued next post...

>>110256

>But what if this small market get saturated with potato growers?

In a Capitalist market, anyone can enter and exit markets freely. Best of all, they can enter a market for, lets say, Healthcare when there are a billion potatoe farmers, and no doctors! Now Tyler is an amateur doctor who treats mild problems which prevents the members of this mini society from leaving their commune to get medical treatment in the "real world." This is true for any aspect of this society, markets will be established where the demand is needed...assuming it's development is unhindered by outside forces.

>But what about paying taxes?

...oh dear. How WOULD a group of people that produces for themselves be able to pay for taxes...atleast on the land? They would have to either completely separate themselves from the society so no one really knows they're there, OR they'd have to sell some of their products to the neighboring society and make enough money to atleast pay the taxes and anything else! How would that work?

>What stops people in this Capitalist society from forming a group that alters the face of the society as a whole? What's stopping a few from taking over everything?

YOU as the member of the society would! They gain their power because they sell a product which is desired by YOU. If they start to infrindge on others, and it pisses enough people off, someone from the society can enter the market and produce the same thing, eliminating the need for the infringing forces. This would keep them in check.

>continued next post...

>>110257

>What if a governing force in the society desides to make him the sole seller of potatoes? What if the governing group creates wealth breaks for him only?

Then it becomes Crony Captialism, and not true Capitalism. The outside interference of government stop the market from being efficient, and rewards members power when they should have none. It now becomes the job of the society to elect a new member of rule, and produce to the point where the Crony forces become obsolete. Remember they depend on EVERYONE to gain their wealth. As long as this system is not altered or infringed, Capitalism works because the allowance of new members in the market prevent any one group from taking over.

>More to come....

Are wimmins allowed?

>>110259

Only super muscular ones completely covered in hair. Liek She-Hulk.

I'm a lumberjack, and I won't settle for dainty supermodels hoeing my fields. I want a yetti-of-a-women wrestling bears and beating our children...

That's the only absolute rule. Your women must be a beautiful yetti angel.

>>110258
>>110257
>>110256
>>110240

Thanks for your input. This scenario might hold true in a nation or state, but not in a small group setting.


also, I will be in charge. I'm not going to be a dictator, but this land is going to be mine, not the groups.

>>110306
Are you going to have livestock?
Depending on how crops and livestock are owned you may need enforced slaughter (for preservation of feed) and other controls, it could cause trouble if not sorted out.

>>110270
Oh god, please tell me you're not who I think you aire...

>>110257
>If they start to infrindge on others, and it pisses enough people off, someone from the society can enter the market and produce the same thing, eliminating the need for the infringing forces. This would keep them in check.

Sounds nice in theory, but it doesn't always work that way. Please imagine just for one moment that you want to start a new bank or a new oil company.
All the problems that come up to your mind with that are the reasons that the market just doesn't work that way anymore as soon as a few players get powerful enough.

>>110187
>We'll eventually be trying to open a "adventure school"
Fuck, that is my fantasy

>>110306
Hey, as long as the money to buy it's yours too, more power too you. How's the funding coming, anyway?

>>110354

well sign up on our forum and at least watch us fulfill your fantasy. Or save up some monies and come join us!

>>110358
inheritance. Fuck yea dead people!

>>110187
>Imagine getting some dumbass college pussy to give us 10,000 bucks to make him into a man

An income based on exploitative insincerity dependent entirely on the insecure. I can certainly imagine it, but happiness and integrity don't feature anywhere.
To think you would be trying to support a society based on the above mentality. Talk about pissing in your own nest.

>>110380

I've been a scout and living in the woods my whole life. I've forgotten more woodcraft skills than most city slickers will ever learn.


There are so many inner city weenies that have never so much as stepped foot in the real woods.


Not so much as exploiting as offering a service. We can't "force" people to pay us so if we offer it and people wanna come out and live like us why wouldn't we do that?

>>110389

>We can't "force" people to pay us so if we offer it and people wanna come out and live like us why wouldn't we do that?

Con men rarely force their victims either. Your point?

>>110392

So if we offer a service........and people pay us for that service.............what's the issue?


It's not like I'm saying "HEY COME OUT TO MAINE AND WE'LL HAVE YOU BUILDING YOUR OWN PLACE IN NO TIME AND YOU'LL BE GETTING SO MUCH PUSSY AND YOUR DICK WILL GROW 6 INCHES A DAY AND ETC ETC"
I'm simply saying I believe people would pay to just EXPERIENCE the kind of lifestyle we're planning here.
You guys act like I'm calling up senior citizens and convincing them to order turning signal fluid for their cars?


There's no con here I don't get the hate

>>110389
Oh probably because your entire attitude is flawed. Rednecks with a superiority complex couldn't be a less attractive venture, unless someone has a very specific fetish, in which case then you're dealing with fetishists and it becomes a case of "Fuck, who should be feeling the most revolting?"

>>110398
>So if we offer a service........and people pay us for that service.............what's the issue?

Ahhhh, the whore's defense. This keeps getting better and better.

>>110401
superiority complex?


I don't think so my friend.

I know about being in the woods. How to live, how to find food, shelter all that sort of stuff. I've been teaching it for 8 years or so. I do know what I'm doing so why wouldn't people who want to learn that sort of thing pay me to teach it to them?

>>110404

I didn't know I was selling illegal goods or services but good try.

>>110398

I'm not "hating" on you, just pointing out the flaw of your argument. Don't be mad.

>>110401

Post of the goddamn year.

Please be a tripfag. I would enjoy reading more of this kind of stuff.

>>110405

Again not hating on you but how old are you?

>>110409


Not mad, but someone said I was "exploiting" people and you mentioned a "con man"


That implies some form of "con" going on, or some kind of alternative motive.
All I was trying to say is that I'm setting up a wilderness "camp" where we'll be working on green energy and woodcraft skills. If we advertised these skills at college's and urban area's and people wanted to experience this lifestyle why wouldn't we set up a "school" for them to come to?

>>110410

low 20's, you?

>>110407
None of that is relevant, it's the mentality I'm talking about.

>>110416


And that mentality is what?
Okay you got me I called the college kids "pussies" that might have come across as a little abrasive.

>>110415
Your body may be low 20's, but your mindset is that of a 14-year-old. Don't worry, we all had the same fantasies when we were 14, it's just that most of us moved on. It's like how /tg/ was going to buy an abandoned missile silo and convert it into a gaming center, and how Reddit was going to buy an island. Now /k/ wants to buy a fort. A few people will get excited and look at it seriously (but not realistically), you'll get forums up, some people talking, people saying they'll donate money, but with time, you'll lose interest and get swept up in something else. The project will stagnate, and in two years, you'll be left with nothing but memories of what an idiot child you used to be.

>>110412

Again, a metaphor to point out the flaw in your argument. Relax.

>>110415

Figured.

Humility, sir, it's time you get that under your belt before anyone takes your seriously.

FWIW, I'm 24. I could spot off numbers, certifications, etc. in my industry to make it seem like I'm hot shit but I'm not because people generally tune out those types. Walk softly, carry a big stick, etc.

>>110421


The difference this time is leadership (me) and funding (which I already have)


And yes, the other reason these things have failed are the people undertaking them.


How many people that browse 4chan in general have ever helped build a house? I've helped build several.


How many people that browse 4chan regularly spend months on end living in the woods? I do


And I've already GOTTEN people to donate towards this cause, and there are 5-6 people in the area I'm headed that are either in the construction field or the general labor field.


This will succeed because unlike other 4chan endeavors, this one has people involved that know what they're doing.
I actually think you're rather smart. Why don't you sign up on my forum there's a whole section devoted JUST to "devil's advocates" to tell us why we'll fail and all that stuff.


www.thekfort.com

>>110405
>superiority complex?
>I don't think so my friend.

>>Imagine getting some dumbass college pussy to give us 10,000 bucks to make him into a man
>There are so many inner city weenies that have never so much as stepped foot in the real woods.

Superiority complex. Textbook case.

And you want to sell a lie. Your customers would be no less or more "men" than than you before or after having done to them whatever it is you decide to do. This is obvious. Just as obvious as a drug dealer does not sell happiness, or a whore sells love, if you want a tangible connection between you and those industries spelt out.

>>110437


jeez I didn't think that post would get so analyzed.
You have to agree that there is more of a gap in "old style" skills such as cutting down trees, splitting logs to burn in a stove, camping, outdoor living and "new style" skills like computers and stuff.


What I drastically simplified in that post was that there are alot of people who have never in their life swung an axe. Some of those people might be interested in learning how, or trying to live "frontier style" for a few days or a few weeks or whatever.


So if I have a place set up in the woods for people to learn these skills and try to live that lifestyle, wouldn't it make sense to charge those people some money for that knowledge?

You know, "Communes" tend to work only when you have communist minded hippies who are into that sort of thing. you know, the basic principle of communism?

also, 30 acres aint shit for any sized community. let alone trying to make it self sufficient.

>>110443

>So if I have a place set up in the woods for people to learn these skills and try to live that lifestyle, wouldn't it make sense to charge those people some money for that knowledge?

From your forum:

>It'll cost roughly 500 bucks just to get our there for most people, so that'll deter the real weirdos that are just lookin to do this for "fun"

Good luck selling that experience.

>>110187
>Imagine getting some dumbass college pussy to give us 10,000 bucks to make him into a man
In all likelyhood, you won't get that. What you'll get is people who want to be badass and are willing to pay for it. Most will have some limited skillset already which they hope to teach. Personally, as for myself, I would be glad to teach some woodcraft and construction classes, statistical analyses and gambling, horsemanship, basic brawling and knife-fighting, classical guitar, or whatever-the-fuck in exchange for training with cars and guns. And I'd be down for paying, but I wouldn't be down for paying a few grand, but I wouldn't be down for $10,000. The main thing you're competing with here is the local community college, you can't charge that much more than them.

GODDAMIT.
I have this idea since im 14 (18 now).
living in pure nature, surviving without outer help. living in a peacefull community. id really like to join in but unfortunately, i live in europe :(

>>110447
>so that'll deter the real weirdos that are just lookin to do this for "fun"
Why would anyone do this if not for fun?

>>110452

Oh, I don't know, because it costs ~$500 by your estimates just to get fucking out there?

>>110447


Hence the notion of going to college's and universities and "richer" areas where people have money to spend. That's just good business sense.
And the isolation/distance is what makes us unique. People from NYC and boston know what any old forest looks like. But the Maine wilderness? That's the lower 48's last frontier.
And the thing about "500 bucks just to get out here so that'll deter the real weirdo's" was in response to a thread about people worried about "4chaners" coming to mess with us just for fun.


Only people who are serious are gonna bother getting out there so it'll weed out the flakes anyways.


www.thekfort.com !

>>110451
>living in pure nature
>i live in europe
Wow, you really fucked that one up.

>>110452


It was taken out of context that's why.


The people who are going to be working/living out there with me are people who are serious about the green/self sufficient lifestyle.

What that post was referring to was 4chan weirdo's coming to murder us in our sleep and things like that.

Hope you've got a couple of million bucks for the insurance costs.

>>110454

Maine is hardly the last frontier. And I base that because it was fucking first settled by Europeans 404 years ago. FFS, it's more densely populated than 12 other US states. IIRC, Maine was the second or third state to be completely surveyed. No, Maine is hardly the last frontier.

>>110462
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroostook_County,_Maine

This is where i'm headed.


Of course its gonna be the first to be settled by the euro's, its closest to them.

And surveyed just means they know whats there not that it is settled.


If you look there the population density is 10 per square mile.

10.
As far as "pure wilderness" goes with just trees and untouched nature, not much can compare to the southwest, and there's literally NOTHING out there haha.


and not to squabble petty differences, its the 41st most populated state.

>>110444
It being wooded I expect that there will not be great deals of farming, you plan to live off hunting and selling things/services, yes?

>>110470


shit i typed that second part all wrong.


OTHER than the south and midwest there's not many area's where there's just pure timber wilderness.

Sure you can find tracts of land out west that are way less populated, but then you're talkin complete isolation and again, no trees.

>>110455
well now i think of starting this somewhere here.
but the problem is money since im still a student

>>110470

Kid, I live in Georgia and we have quite a few areas sprinkled across the state with a lower population density that and you don't hear me calling it the last great frontier.

Hell, parts of Western NC and Eastern TN have a lower population density than that, haha.

I want to do what this cracker did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke

How would I go about getting a small area of land in the middle of no where in alaska that I could build some small shity cabin on?

>>110462

You have obviously never been to the North Woods. I grew up in southern Maine and even there it's boondocks anywhere off the coast. Maine is wild and harsh and you are inexperienced for thinking that it's "civilized". If it's not a frontier then it is a 3rd-world country inside the USA.

>> Grew up without electricity or running water, shitting in a hole in the ground.

>>110480
sure, parts of Georgia are unpopulated, but on average your population is 170 people per square mile.


You're the 9th most populated state.


There's just way less people in maine. Way more rural area's kid.

>>110482

You find someone selling desirable land and then you purchase it. Proenneke bought his from his friends.

>>110484

So which is it? The state on the whole or counties? Because you just sourced a county with a density of 10 per sq mile. Echols/Clinch country in Georgia have a lower density than that.

Point remains: Maine is not the last frontier of the lower 48 and you are, for the most part, full of tiring and inaccurate bullshit.

>>110490

Well Maine as a whole is 41st, and Georgia is 9th.


For the whole state, the population density is 43/square mile compared to 170 in georgia.


you are right my mistake.
But this guy kinda told you huh?

>>110483


Word's can't keep me down brah, cause I am beautiful. No matter what they say.

>>110494

Experience talks. We used to subsistence farm, lobster, do biomass timber on the back patch, sew ourselves up when injured. Not fun but makes for tough people.

>>110483

That is hardly exclusive to Maine, you uncultured swine.

>>110494

Nah I told him, bro.

>>110496
used to?


I'd love to hear more from you. My email's up there ^

Or you can join my forum


www.thekfort.com

>>110496

Experience has nothing to do with it in this case. I called bullshit on his statement on his "Maine's the last great frontier" statement and then you went off on some moonbat tangent about how Maine isn't "civilized" or easy as if I ever insinuated it was, and then you mentioned you shit in the ground.

Mother fucker, quit getting your panties in a bunch; no one thinks you're soft because you shit in the ground in Maine.

>>110500


As far as wilderness, distance from cities and natural resources could you name a place you would pick that is more closer to "the last frontier" within the continental US?

Nebraska checking in, 23.3 people per sq mile state wide with the parts I grew up in at about 5 per sq mile.

Anyhow, Having been in the North Woods living in a tent for months at a time, Maine is harsh the way quilted northern toilet paper is harsh when you're used to charmin.

Out here where we wipe our ass with 80 grit, things are....well....different.

My point? I don't know, but one of you certainly just won the Special Olympics.

>>110503

Quit samefagging son. One of us knows a moderator that just so happens to be on AIM.

>>110502

Oh, I don't know, what about Montana? It's entire state population density is at a whopping 6. There's 3 people per sq mile in Blaine County, Montana and 0.8828 people per sq mile in Phillips. Yeah, that's a good start.

>>110497

I prefer bootstrapped cultural technologist, "teh" Locksmith. Having lived at the bottom of the barrel I'm determined to not end up there again - currently working on a Masters degree, so whatever.

>>110498

Past tense. Like anyone with an above average brain, I left Maine at age 18 and have only lived there during periods of unemployment since.

I'll post some stuff here, you are welcome to add anything useful to your site.

My family had a small farm, couple acres under plow of heirloom and regular crops, corn, squash, beans, cukes, melons, sunchokes (delicious), tomatoes, pumpkin, etc. We'd raise a couple of pigs every year and had a plow horse for a few years but tractor is more reliable. Cows and more pigs when I was younger. No chickens as my stepfather had burnt out on them years before.

In the southern part of the state is the transition zone from deciduous to coniferous forest so we had about 25% leafy, 75% pine forest. We had a small sawmill, cut our own lumber and also biomassed about 25% of the tree mass by leaving some portion of tops and logs on the forest floor.

Both the farming and forestry were a remediation effort as large parts of the topsoil had been harvested in the early 1900s. Our garden patch was the only black soil around - everything else was sandy crap were they'd hauled the goods off.

contd...

>>110507


wow you know the mod? nice name drop.
Cool. Montana is too far for me though, Maine will have to work and I"ll still refer to it as my last frontier.

Hey Sam, bout to sign up on the project website. Sounds like a good old fashioned time. I grew in Northern California, spent a lot of my time in the Sierra Nevadas roughing it. I live in NYC now, but I don't have any Maine wilderness experience. Still, if you'd like any help this summer scouting, mapping, making plans, clearing plots for camps, basically just getting the basic footwork done, I'd be happy to help. Do you have a group of volunteers organized yet who are planning on helping with the initial ground lay?

>>110513
thanks for your show of support!


Yes on the forum there are plans for a few scouting parties as well as a "landing party" that will clear things out for later when we can actually move up there for good

>>110510

Oh, you're so fucking awesome! Look at you getting that masters!

You'll be the guy with a masters that used to shit in the ground in Maine and then bragged about it as if anyone gave an absolute fuck where you came from or what you've been through.

No our point of contention was over Maine's frontier mystique and you felt the need to drop the straight dope about how you shit in the ground and were tough as nails in Maine. Good for you man, go flex your nuts elsewhere. You don't see me detailing my experiences in TEH DEEP SOUTH!1!1!1 because I'm not insecure enough to feel the need to do so.

>>110512

"My last frontier" is not the same as "lower 48's last frontier". Perfectly applicable designation. Good luck in your endeavor.

>>110515
I'll find those threads and chime in. I read that you're planning on going up there this month to seal the deal, and then August is the main launch. Anything happening between those times?

>>110507
That was my 1st post,
And if you're so tough... get me b& you fucking slut.

(feels like /b/ in here...)

>>110520
yea there is some interest in a week to 2 week "campout" up there to possibly scout the entire plot of land and set up some basic spots to settle.


Feel free to make whatever thread you like see what we can do!

>>110421 here.

>>110427
>leadership
All these projects have it.

>funding
All these projects have funding of some sort - Reddit Island had, iirc, 250K pledged.

>how many of us have build houses
You're on fucking /diy/, kid. At least half of us, myself included.

>spend months on end living inna woods
Watch out, we've got a badass over here! Seriously, you think survivalist skills are going to help you get a commune going? You're a fucking retard (as can be witnessed by reading the rest of the thread). Most of us have survivalist skills of some sort. I've backpacked extensively, and have SERE training. It doesn't mean jack shit.

>have people that you've scammed... er, that donated

The /tg/ base had a fund set up, and Reddit also had a fund set up, if I recall. Your point is?

>it will work hurp durp i know what I'm doing
lol. People said the same about every other venture. And did you just call Reddit Island a 4chan endeavor?

>i think ur smart, sign up on forums

lolno. I'm not giving away my phone number, or letting you get a hold of my IP. Fuck off kid. Go back to /k/ and keep fantasizing. We all came through this phase, we all ended it. Time for you to end it too.

>>110523


I didn't know so much butthurt could fit in just one mom's basement.


Thanks for your support!

>>110521
This.

Seriously, this thread + this tripfag = a pure representation of the cancer that is killing /diy/.

>>110527

Report it then, faggot.

>>110527
thanks man I agree.


I come in here trying to get support and ideas for my project, and all I get are people being douche's.


Thanks /diy/

>>110531

Haha, come on.

You called for it with your asinine statements and examples of self bravado.

Also, first time here? These types of threads generally go like this.

>>110536
I don't usually browse /diy/ so I wouldn't know.
If you don't like the thread you don't have to post in it. It's way easier to just hit the back button and go on with your life.


All I posted on here for was to get more members for my forum to get more ideas for my project.

>>110531
You must really be dense. I was referring to you. You, my tripfriend, are the cancer. Your project is pants-on-head retarded, yet you personally are so idiotic you make it look like a beacon of shining glorious knowledge for all han/diy/men to worship until the end of time.

>>110518

The Masters, like my Bachelors, are firsts in my family, so yes, it's kind of a big deal.

Wasn't trying to derail anything. Was attempting to convey what to expect from neighbors and other locals experiences that hadn't already been covered. What lessons have you learned from the Deep South that could be applied to theKFort?

Thanks for confirming never having been to Maine, too.

>>110539

>All I posted on here for was to get more members for my forum to get more ideas for my project.

Which violates 4chan global rule 11 which says:

Advertising (all forms) is also not welcome—this includes any type of referral linking, "offers", etc.

We could ignore your bullshit or call you on it to inform those who choose to read this thread at a later time.

See how it works? Good, thought so.

>>110541


This board is called Do it yourself right?


I'm starting a project that I'm doing myself. I leave for a day or whatever and I see the discussion has devolved into the various pro's and con's to the communal lifestyle and then other tripfags come in and start arguing over trivial issues.


I've gotten 5-10 members on my forum from this thread that really wanna help out with this project, and at the very least have some knowledge to help me out with.
What have you done to help this thread? Nothing.

You're the cancer kid, not me

>>110539
Global rule 11.

>Advertising (all forms) is also not welcome—this includes any type of referral linking, "offers", etc.

Reporting for rule violation. The fact that you're asking for donations simply makes this worse. I'm now quite convinced you are simply scamming folks.

>>110530
This

>>110544

>>110547 here. Ahaha, great minds do indeed think alike.

>>110542

I've been to Maine. I have family outside of Skowhegan.

And as for my experiences, no thanks, I'm not trying to turn this into a pissing contest. You're a badass; we get it.

>>110544
wow talk about superiority complex and being a douche.
If you don't like the thread just leave. How hard is it to stop refreshing this thread? You don't have anything good to contribute so don't man.

>>110546
Nope, you're the cancer. Everyone agrees. GTFO.

>>110549

Haha, indeed.

drop the trip.
there is no fame on /diy/

post real images of exactly what you are doing.
do not brag, unless you have already imparted a great deal of useable information to others.

ideas mean nothing, doing it yourself means everything, asking for help is not the same as offering it

this is not the greatest /diy/ project ever devised. If you had come in with photos of the property that you already owned asking us to talk abotu well digging-

that's what we like

we do not want to migrate to your forum elsewhere, we are sharing knowledge HERE, come here to join us or not

>>110551

I'm not the douchebag spamming this forum with your shit-tier forum and asking for money.

I didn't give a fuck but since you want to keep it up, I'll report it.

www.thekfort.com

>>110551
>>110551

>>110523
>The /tg/ base had a fund set up
Wait, which one? That little village, the missile base, the warehouse, or the gypsy convoy? Or some other one?

If you are going to commune in Maine you will need some local knowledge and hands-on guidance, like an extended camp guide. There have been many communes there and it can be fun.

When I was really little we stayed summers in a hippie commune. It was mostly tipis, tents and naked people. Others I've been to have been small religious settlements made of back-to-the-soil types. These kind of intentional communities can work but it requires a lot of effort, communication and usually financial support from off-site unless you are growing weed. You should plan to produce something unique and salable locally during tourist season and over the Net.

Are you planning to be on or off grid? Windmill or solar? Yes or no to heavy equipment? An excavator is an amazing thing. Sawmill? Tractor? Farming or just forestry?

Are you moving to Maine to get back to the soil yourself or are you starting an intentional community? Those each have
different requirements.

>>110556

What Oskarbro wrote.

>>110550

Thanks for recognizing.

>>110570
>which one
My point exactly.

I thought the missile base had one. I could be wrong, though.

>>110577


If they had 250k pledged like tehlocksmith said I'm surprised nothing actually happened with it.

>>110576

>Sarcasm

You are not badass because you didn't have electricity, plumbing, etc. as a kid. This is what would have been considered normal as recently as the early 20th century. My great-grandfather told me stories of how he would work at his parent's farm for 12 hours as an example of how tough things were not that he had to shit in an outhouse. For fucks sake, I'd shit outside if it wouldn't get me arrested - it'd be one less thing to deal with in my house.

Stop trying to flex your nuts, the aroma is getting pungent.

>>110581

I never said that. Someone else.

>>110586
my bad bro. several apologies.

>>110587
That was Reddit, dumbass. You can scroll up and check the post, it's not very hard.

>>110584

Obsess about my nether regions much, tripfag?

Almost everyone else is offering something, be it personal experience, support or advice. moot should remove trip and namecodes except for OPs. Tripfags ruin everything.

>> CAPTCHA: Iwamoto, trolth

>>110603

Not obsessing just laughing that you consider something so trivial "tough".

Tripcodes are useful for identifying who is saying what in such a large thread, i.e. this thread. To quote the 4chan FAQ

>Tripcodes can help verify a user's identity to others, and are a type of pseudo-registration.

>>110608


First time I've agreed with you man.


Can we get back on topic?


We're having a discussion right now on the forum regarding a selection process.

How should we screen potential new members?

Real-Life Minecraft