Why NOT to go vegan/vegetarian

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Why NOT to go vegan/vegetarian Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:10:44 2015 No.6959331 [Reply] [Original]

Multiple friends and family members of mine have recently went vegetarian / vegan. I'm pretty sure it has some bad health effects if you don't eat meat. Any way to convince them a plant-based diet isn't the best choice, health-wise?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:12:18 2015 No.6959338 this vegan fad is exactly that a fucking fad. i don't know just keep making fun of them until they cave.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:12:52 2015 No.6959341 >>6959331 meat tastes good

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:13:04 2015 No.6959342 >>6959338 they claim there is really really good health benefits to going vegan. IDK if this is entirely true.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:17:04 2015 No.6959358

>>6959342
well I'm sure eating more vegetables is better than eating processed shit if thats what they were doing before.

but not eating meat at all? its stupid its silly it makes no sense.

i dated a vegan girl for about a year and it was just annoying more than anything.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:18:27 2015 No.6959362 >>6959358 I agree. Not eating meat in any way, shape, or form is just kind of stupid. Doesn't meat have certain proteins?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:26:49 2015 No.6959384 File: 132 KB, 600x799, CI7Z8_qWcAAGjBU.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:30:48 2015 No.6959388 >>6959384 >reasons not to go vegan >states reasons to go vegan

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:35:58 2015 No.6959405 >>6959384 i don't get why vegans think they're so right. maybe definitely I'm just an ignorant asshole but what's the big deal? are they trying to save the animals? what the fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:41:09 2015 No.6959422 >>6959405 they're trying not to support the meat industry. I honestly think its dumb.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 01:46:09 2015 No.6959433 >>6959388 "Reasons" in red and the vegan counter is black. >>6959405 Veganism saves animals, the environment (which we need to be in good condition to live), has health benefits, etc. >>6959422 I think it's smart.

>>	Pinky Sat Oct 10 01:48:22 2015 No.6959437 Watch Cowspiracy, Forks Over Knives, and Earthlings. Really great information.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 02:08:31 2015 No.6959474 >>6959384 >Also we can become very ill eating raw uncooked animal excretions and flesh People can also get sick from eating raw cassava, but somehow that's never an argument against veganism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:34:35 2015 No.6959738 I know an old guy who is 84 years old, is a lifelong vegan, still works and swears blind that eating 'animal carcasses' and their by-products is the safest way to cancer, arthritis and an early death. IDK, what do you think?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:40:08 2015 No.6959740 >>6959738 Sounds like precisely the kind of prick you don't want to have living that long.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:44:29 2015 No.6959746 >>6959740 Enjoy your premature death then

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:45:36 2015 No.6959747

What is best to make vegan burgers? TVP, firm tofu, mushrooms, or mashed beans?

Also what filler or combining agent is best? What I’ve seen used is Mashed potatoes, rolled oats, whole wheat flour and bread crumbs.

Also what are the best flavorings to add? I’ve seen soy sauce, nutritional yeast, ketchup, yellow mustard, and ground sun dried tomatoes besides the usual garlic and onion powder, black pepper, salt etc

SOoo many options, what is best? What have you tried?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:46:37 2015 No.6959749

>>6959331
No. It's probably bad for your health to be a full time vegan for the rest of your life, but we simply don't know enough about nutrition and micronutrients to say why.

Don't talk about protein and iron. Full protein can be achieved by diversifying the appropriate vegetables, and it's not as hard to meet your iron needs without meat as most people think. The deficiencies lie elsewhere.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:53:16 2015 No.6959755 >>6959749 >deficiencies lie elsewhere where? >we simply don't know enough about nutrition and micronutrients to say why yeah thats what i thought bitch

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 06:58:14 2015 No.6959758 >>6959755 That's how I opened, you mentally inane twat. That was the tone of everything I wrote. We can observe that vegans seem to have a higher ratio of insipidity than normal people, but the cause of this is yet to be determined.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:03:56 2015 No.6959764 >>6959331 > I'm pretty sure it has some bad health effects if you don't eat meat. how about actually doing some research on the subject

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:09:41 2015 No.6959769

>>6959405
it only started because of the torture like conditions that farm animals usually live in there days then some people took it a lot further and started thinking it was bad to kill animals
if they think that killing animals just for pleasure then it makes sense to not want to purchase meat

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:14:41 2015 No.6959771
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>>6959331
The only thing you need to do is maintain a daily intake of all the essentials.

This just gets a little bit harder if you become a vegan or vegetarian.

If they can't be fucked to read anything about how to have a good nutritional intake in their diets it's their fault.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:33:42 2015 No.6959788

>>6959758
i've done a ton of research about completely restricting meat and there isn't anything wrong with it and then i see people like you whining about what they don't know about, proclaiming that indeed you don't know anything and it just makes me cringe

>>6959771
before they changed their diet chances are they even at that time were not maintaining a daily intake of all the essentials. I would recommend that everyone learn about nutrition

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:35:42 2015 No.6959793
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>>6959433

>Veganism saves animals, the environment

Your vegan diet untold thousands of insects, small rodents, birds, fish, and everything that relies on them all the way down the food chain so you can feel morally superior while combine harvesters literally tear them to shreds in their homes and nitrogen from fertilizer leaks into the water table, creating algae pollution which can wipe out entire ecosystems.

You can tout your vegan bull all you want, but your shit stinks just as bad as Joe Schmoe who eats 5 big macs a day, if not worse. The typical vegan moral high ground is more of a moral ditch. Of course you could be growing your own produce, or buying it locally, but somehow I doubt it, and even if you did you could make the exact same argument for buying locally raised free range beef from your butcher.

tl;dr, Your average vegan is just as morally bankrupt as your average fast food junkie, if not moreso. Stop using that argument because it holds water like a sieve and you're only making yourself look like even more of an obnoxious jackass every time you roll it out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:38:46 2015 No.6959802 >>6959793 the goal is to reduce suffering. i don't understand what you're whining about

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:40:16 2015 No.6959803

>>6959788
I've read plenty about it, enough to know that our body of knowledge on the subject of nutrition is severely limited. The thinking changes every five years. Trans fats used to be considered the best fats. Cholestorol used to be evil.

You can experiment on yourself if you want, as long as you understand you're experimenting. For most of us, not entirely cutting out anything natural is the safest option.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:49:14 2015 No.6959812

>>6959803
the appeal to nature argument doesn't work, we know better now. Cholesterol is still bad and fats in general are best to be reduced. We make cholesterol in the liver and don't need any more supplementation. 40% of dietary cholesterol is still absorbed in foods to the blood stream. Hormone production is still normal in a diet with low fat as a percentage of total calories at 10%.

The context of all your words tells me that you have not read plenty about it

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:50:22 2015 No.6959813 >>6959812 No.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:54:38 2015 No.6959816 File: 26 KB, 241x274, 1439758014092.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6959358 >dated a vegan girl for about a year and it was just annoying more than anything I bet she talked about vegan food non stop. Good lord.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 07:57:34 2015 No.6959819 >>6959738 He's the kind of guy that'd have lived to 84 or beyond no matter what: every ancient fucker claims to have some kind of bullshit theory as to why they're still kicking.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:00:20 2015 No.6959822 There are no real reasons not to go vegan except liking the taste of meat. So while this may be a legitimate reason for some, it is not a strong argument against people who already don't eat meat.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:03:26 2015 No.6959824

>>6959802
If you want to reduce suffering just end your existence right now.
Your device which you post from caused some underpaid students in China to kill themselves.
Your car shits up the enviroment, if you ever travelled anywhere by plane you shit it up even more.
The mere existence of you kills countless life forms unless you live completely off the grid seperated from civilization.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:04:44 2015 No.6959825 >>6959824 I said reduce, not eliminate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:06:20 2015 No.6959826 >>6959793 lol, and when you feed the crops to animals all these problems don't arise?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:07:09 2015 No.6959828 >>6959825 So why aren't you going a step further? Don't half ass your life philosophy and berate others for not doing the same.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:07:59 2015 No.6959830 >>6959793 >literally the same thing happens when growing to feed animals >additional trophic level, so reduced efficiency >hurr

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:08:06 2015 No.6959831 >>6959824 the goal is to reduce suffering can't eliminate it don't be silly and think reasonably

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:09:36 2015 No.6959832 >>6959831 You are reducing it by not existing. Just do it, kill yourself right now so I don't have to deal with your shitty posts anymore. That would greatly reduce my suffering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:09:39 2015 No.6959833 >>6959828 >why donate to charities >I'm trying to improve people's lives >just go over there and feed them your body, all or nothing XD

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:10:37 2015 No.6959834 File: 2.79 MB, 300x252, 1440978445587.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6959828 i forgot that people can be this way

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:12:00 2015 No.6959837 >>6959832 are you 12 years old?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:12:44 2015 No.6959841 >>6959832 2edgy4me

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:16:19 2015 No.6959846 Most animals can't even pass a mirror test, why would I care about beings that are about as self-aware as a vegetable?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:18:47 2015 No.6959851 [DELETED]

>>6959788
>i've done a ton of research about completely restricting meat and there isn't anything wrong with it
There was an episode of House that detailed an illness that is gained by not eating meat. Forgot what it was called, but then again, it was a medical drama.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:20:01 2015 No.6959855 >>6959802 Cows can't suffer, they aren't self-aware since they can't pass a mirror test. They don't feel pain, it's nociception

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:23:37 2015 No.6959860
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>>6959846
because a lot have emotions and feel pain. I like to think about how if there were aliens that felt the same about us

>>6959851
>hurr i saw a movie once

nah as long as the person gets the calories in then they won't be deficient in protein. Its not really practical unless maybe they are a small child

>>6959855
they know fear and they know love (nurture their young, they run if startled) nobody is arguing that they are geniuses among their peers

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:26:31 2015 No.6959865

>>6959860
Fear and love are evolutionary reflexes in these animals. It doesn't make them any more aware.

Insects are a lot more complex than most think.
Ants for example do pas the mirror test, bees may very well be more self aware than most farm animals.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:27:41 2015 No.6959866 >>6959855 bugguy pls

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:31:47 2015 No.6959873 Being vegetarian is fine, you still get eggs and dairy.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:32:22 2015 No.6959876

>>6959331
Whoa Whoa Whoa OP.
Vegan and Vegetarian are two completely different things. There's nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet as it can be nutritionally complete without supplements. You can get your vitamin B12 requirements from milk and eggs.

Vegans MUST take a B12 supplement or eat B12 fortified foods 2-3 times a day. The vegan diet is NOT nutritionally complete- no matter what the vegans say. A vegan diet without supplements/fortified foods for extended periods (years) WILL lead to health problems.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:33:57 2015 No.6959880 >>6959876 vitamin B12 from eggs has a low bio-availability iirc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:34:37 2015 No.6959881 File: 37 KB, 692x428, 41_10ComplementaryProtein[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6959362 >this things is certainly stupid >I don't know much about it though

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:38:33 2015 No.6959886

>>6959793
>nitrogen from fertilizer leaks into the water table
Not trying to knock your point, but nitrogen in the water table leads to blue baby syndrome, not algae blooms.

Excess phosphates (which are extremely water soluble and prone to RUN OFF) cause algae blooms.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:40:58 2015 No.6959891

>>6959865
>Fear and love are evolutionary reflexes in these animals

you too. Difference is that we know better then they do and we know that we don't have to cause harm to animals in order to sustain ourselves and we should take pride in that,to be above these stupid animals.

>>6959876
this one is true but most vegan foods besides straight produce is going to be fortified. i am having no difficulties personally, only legitimate concern.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:41:13 2015 No.6959892 >>6959880 My point still stands that you can eat a nutritionally complete vegetarian diet without supplements. Vegan diets REQUIRE supplements and therefore are not nutritionally complete.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:41:34 2015 No.6959894 >>6959881 Cool. What about carnitine lipoic acid coenzyme q creatine etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:43:01 2015 No.6959896 >>6959891 Cows are as self-aware as plants. You don't care about vegetables but somehow beings that can't feel pain either (it's nociception) are not ok?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:49:00 2015 No.6959904

>>6959892
if you are only eating straight produce then yes otherwise vegan foods are all fortified. its not the end of the world anyways, most american diets are so grossly deficient in a handful of micro nutrients but nothing is being said about that. you never hear about obese meat eaters complain about their CLEAR deficiencies

>Cows are as self-aware as plants

you hope people don't believe that

>You don't care about vegetables but somehow beings that can't feel pain either (it's nociception) are not ok?

why do you guys have to be so silly and unreasonable?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:50:36 2015 No.6959909

>>6959894
Lets not forget L-lysine.

>>6959891
I like to point it out because I've had vegans argue tooth and nail that their diet doesn't require supplements. I don't have moral objections to killing animals for their meat, so I have no motivation to move toward a vegetarian/vegan diet. I also enjoy things like lamb and venison waaay too much to consider it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:50:46 2015 No.6959910 >>6959886 /an/ here algae grower. Nitrates are needed too, but it tends to cause more duckweed and kill the oxygen transfer instead.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:51:21 2015 No.6959911 >>6959904 *i hope you don't believe that

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:52:32 2015 No.6959913

>>6959894
>What about carnitine lipoic acid coenzyme q creatine etc.

>carnitine
>Carnitine is a quaternary ammonium compound biosynthesized from the amino acids lysine and methionine.

>lipoic acid
>Lipoic acid (LA), also known as α-lipoic acid and alpha lipoic acid (ALA) and thioctic acid is an organosulfur compound derived from octanoic acid. ALA is made in animals normally, and is essential for aerobic metabolism.

do you actually know what you're saying?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 08:54:32 2015 No.6959918 >>6959904 >>6959911 >*i hope you don't believe that So show me a study where cows pass the mirror test. Mirror test is the golden standard for self-awareness.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:00:51 2015 No.6959925
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>>6959909
vegans enjoy the taste of meat as well, we are just more disciplined

1 cup of oats has enough lysine for me after my usual diet is met. not a problem if you just pay attention and again there are millions and millions that are quick to criticize a vegan diet for some of its very few potential deficiencies but the obvious ones that they themselves have are completely overlooked

>>6959918
they know pain, they know fear, they know love, they know empathy they have the same chemicals swimming in their brain as you even if they can't articulate them as well as we can

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:03:48 2015 No.6959929

>>6959925
Why are you posting an image of elephants when I'm talking about cows?
Please don't think cows are anywhere near elephants.

Elephants pass the mirror test, they are self aware and therefore can feel pain.
Cows do not, therefore they don't experience pain, it's nociception in the cow's case.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:04:47 2015 No.6959930 >>6959918 >Mirror test is the golden standard for self-awareness. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/kids-and-animals-who-fail-classic-mirror/

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:06:51 2015 No.6959933 >>6959930 Read the article, it's not self-awareness that's being tested but vanity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:07:41 2015 No.6959935 >>6959929 so your arbitrary test justifies you to cause harm to another species?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:09:37 2015 No.6959937 >>6959935 So why don't you care about harm done to plant based species?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:10:17 2015 No.6959939 >>6959910 Yes, but the increase in phosphate is what causes algae blooms in waterways related to fertilizer run off. I'm an agriculture major and went over this in class two weeks ago. I'm not sure if you're confirming or contesting my statement.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:15:52 2015 No.6959948

>>6959937
the goal is to reduce suffering. EVEN IF cows and plants feel the same pain (???!) cows consume more plants to make meat to feed people when consuming the plants directly STILL REDUCES SUFFERING. its always the same questions with the same logical answers

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:17:13 2015 No.6959953

>>6959929
Dude. I'm a meat eater and 100% believe that cows feel pain, fear, etc. I also do not have a moral objection to slaughtering them because they are COWS. The main argument to go vegan is a moral one, which is quickly ended by admitting that you do not have objections to killing animals for their flesh. I hunt and have taken by shotgun and bow. I've bashed skulls and broken necks when the animal didn't die imminently. I DO NOT have an issue with it and nothing in the forseeable future will convince me otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:19:13 2015 No.6959959 >>6959948 Since they aren't self-aware they can't suffer by definition. >>6959953 >believe Where are the studies confirming that cows pass the self awareness tests? They don't exist since they can't pass them because they aren't self aware.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:23:59 2015 No.6959964 >>6959953 > which is quickly ended by admitting that you do not have objections to killing animals for their flesh. I'm a meat eater too and I don't see this anywhere. You sound more like a carnist than a meat eater.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:28:11 2015 No.6959970

>>6959959
Clearly you've never watched something die. They feel fear, pain, etc. If they didn't then kosher slaughter wouldn't look so horrific (which is what PETA uses in their propaganda videos). I'm pointing out that your argument is one purely based on opinion since no one speaks cow. The question at hand here (for everyone) is- do you have a problem with them being killed?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:33:47 2015 No.6959984
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How many animals have you pussy city boy sheeple even EXECUTED? If you have never EXECUTED an animal with your bare hands, watched it squirm and enjoyed the suffering, you are weak like a worm, and will die when the shit finally hits the fan. Enjoy having everything you love taken from you, by people like me, before having your life snuffed out as a rare act of mercy by someone stronger than you. You never would of survived a hundred years ago, when men were men.

Absolutely pathetic, I feel sick just thinking about your weak, unthinking existence. Why are vegans afraid of guns?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:33:53 2015 No.6959985

>>6959964
That's because the vegan argument implies that you are bad person for supporting the killing of animals. Opponents actually buy into this because they're unwilling to simply admit that they don't have a problem and seek out other reasons to resist a vegan or even vegetarian diet.
I wouldn't say I'm a carnist, but I do enjoy every aspect of meat. My favorite meals are when I've taken the animal from the field to the plate- whether it be fish or deer (I want to do the same with lamb and pork, among others) because I did everything that normally happens before it hits the case in the meat section.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:35:38 2015 No.6959987 >>6959964 >I'm a meat eater >You sound more like a carnist Ask me how I know you're a lying vegan.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:39:07 2015 No.6959989

>>6959985
>the vegan argument implies that you are bad person for supporting the killing of animals
I think you're probably thinking of vegetarians, actually. Vegans don't approve of dairy either, and that doesn't involve killing animals. If there is a "the vegan argument" (a dubious claim to begin with), it would have something more to do with general animal welfare including but not limited to killing, or even a zany approach to human welfare (maybe something like radical anti-internal-combustion people).
>>6959987
Here is your attention

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:39:13 2015 No.6959990

>>6959970
It's nociception, not pain.
They aren't self aware.

>do you have a problem with them being killed
Since they aren't self aware, no.

>Clearly you've never watched something die. They feel fear, pain, etc. If they didn't then kosher slaughter wouldn't look so horrific
That's not proof.
That's like saying the body of a chicken is self aware and can feel pain because it keeps moving after you separated the head from it.

It's nociception, not pain.
Humans also have nociception, the reflex that pulls your hand away from something hot before you're aware of the fact that your hand is being burned is for example nociception.
We become aware of the pain a very short moment after the reflex already pulls our hand away, but most animals like cows never become aware.
Their bodies can sense potential harm, that doesn't make them self-aware and therefore they can't feel pain.

>>6959984
I keep and eat rabbits and they're stupid as fuck.
You can give one a rabbit punch and kill it and the next will come to you to get stroked.
*tips fedora*

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:46:13 2015 No.6959998 File: 30 KB, 640x400, Agent Smith.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6959984

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:46:38 2015 No.6960000 >>6959990 cows cry loudly for their children when they notice that they're being taken away

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:49:12 2015 No.6960003

>>6960000
Awesome get, also it's just a reflex. If you cut a pregnant lady's head off, and then carve the fetus out of its womb (notice how I didn't say "her" because I don't anthropomorphize female humans since they suck and god isn't real), the body will twitch but this is merely noniception. Like when you bang your knee with a mallet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 09:58:25 2015 No.6960018 >>6960003 I was with you until you spouted that phrase > (notice how I didn't say "her" because I don't anthropomorphize female humans since they suck and god isn't real) That was stupid as fuck. Still I share your point about nocioception.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 10:04:39 2015 No.6960032

>>6960003
So all you can do is strawman now?

You're just a fucking idiot who has no idea what you're talking about who only resorts to strawmanning because you can't find studies to confirm your false idea that cows are self aware.

>>6960018
You're stupid as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 10:25:35 2015 No.6960063 >>6960032 >everyone is the same person I never said cows are self aware. Self awareness is not a prerequisite for suffering.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 10:26:40 2015 No.6960065 >>6959933 that's what the mirror test tests cows aren't known for being vain

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 10:27:32 2015 No.6960068

>>6959822
>There are no real reasons not to go vegan except liking the taste of meat.
How about:
it's harder to eat out
it's hard to find good produce year-round
it requires more preparation
it's harder to meet your needed calories/protein/vitamin intake
people make fun of you

I'm not saying those are good reasons, but they're definitely reasons.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 10:30:10 2015 No.6960078

Vegetarian since birth, so is a friend. We're about as average as humanly possible. The obligation is literally the same as anybody else, eat your veggies and fruits, exercise, etc.

Also quit with the moral nonsense. For some it's a lifestyle more than anything.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 11:04:59 2015 No.6960168
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Americans kill and eat around 37 million cows every year. At first they're allowed to graze in large fields, until they wind up on dirt-covered feedlots for the last 10 months of their lives. After their horns are cut off with a pair of bolt-cutters [de-horning], cows are fed soy, corn and protein supplements to fatten them up. Many disgusting by-products are mixed into the feed as well, including pig and chicken manure, animal blood and the ground-up bodies of diseased downed-animals. This is why Mad Cow Disease (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) should concern every meat-eater. It is perfectly legal and standard operating procedure to feed the ground-up, diseased bodies of horses, pigs, chickens and turkeys back to the cows, sheep and goats, and vice versa. Only ruminant-to-ruminant feeding is outlawed.

Feeding ground-up animals to other animals is also the reason Alzheimer's Disease exists and affects around 4.5 million people in America and 15 million worldwide. Before 1900, old age used to be associated with wisdom, not memory loss. Doctors recently discovered that the agent that causes Alzheimer's, the prion or folding protein, also causes Mad Cow Disease, Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD) and a host of other neuro-degenerative disorders. Dr. Murray Waldman, head coroner of Toronto, provides proof of the link between Alzheimer's and CJD in his book Dying For a Hamburger. Many other doctors now believe Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia are misdiagnosed cases of CJD caused by the consumption of animal products.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 11:21:40 2015 No.6960199

>>6959331
Claiming that eating meat is morally wrong, but that others can just go ahead and keep doing your disgusting immoral thing because they are so tolerant - this is pretty standard passive-aggressive vegetarian behaviour. No wonder women like it so much.

Do you really want to become a self-righteous pussy?

Either eat meat from time to time or bomb an abattoir.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:14:42 2015 No.6960900 >>6959913 If you're relying on your body to produce what you need, you're probably not getting enough. Not unless you're totally sedentary.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 16:22:35 2015 No.6960926 >>6960078 >moral nonsense. Hey, what's with this "animal abuse" thing amirite?

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:09:15 2015 No.6961037
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Went vegan this month because people said I wouldn't be able to hack it. Two weeks in and I seem to have lost 2Kg (4.4 lbs) in weight!

I didn't do it this to diet but I'm a little overweight anyway so I can't complain. Off immediately to KFC at the end of the month though.

It's been pretty easy so far as there are plenty of alternatives available these days although I miss eggs and real cheese.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:14:59 2015 No.6961048 >>6959331 A vegetable/plant based diet appears to be the healthiest choice. Sad to say.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:25:58 2015 No.6961073 Non-meat diets have to supplement with loads of quinoa or else say bye bye to hair.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:41:42 2015 No.6961117

>>6959331
I'm a doctor. Vegetarianism is A-OK in my book as long as people aren't pasta and fruitarians. I saw a guy in clinic who was 300lbs and a reportedly vegetarian, he just ate a fuckload of cheetohs and oily pasta. Bad.

I have never met a person who stuck to strict veganism that seemed healthy. Far too many of them are protein and B vitamin deficient. They look sickly.

It is a fairly noble goal to live like a vegan, but you and hurting yourself if you take it too far. Eating meat once a week would improve their health. In all things be moderate tbh fam

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:49:54 2015 No.6961154 >>6959331 People will lose weight on any diet. People can, in general, afford to lose weight. Don't worry about what other people have on their plates, and just stuff yer own face and try not to die doing it.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 17:52:07 2015 No.6961164

>>6959331
Sorry OP, but it's perfectly healthy to eat a balanced vegan diet. I know it makes you feel uncomfortable that your family is making a responsible decision for their health and for the planet, while you are not willing to do so. The times are changing. It's not just a fad, it's the future.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:19:24 2015 No.6961266 File: 1.64 MB, 320x240, giphy (4).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6959984

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:41:27 2015 No.6961309 >>6961164 Dont care i will continue to rape the planet as i see fit and continue to look better than you in the process.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:44:10 2015 No.6961316 >>6959342 With milk and fermented milk being as nutritious as it is? Not really. Remember: Vegans are insane Vegetarians are good people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:46:27 2015 No.6961325 >>6961316 They are exactly the same thing, you lying vegan That B12 deficiency seems to have given you brain damage

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 18:48:50 2015 No.6961330 >>6959384 >Doesn't even make a argument against cheese, yoghurt or fermented milk Thats a shitty info graphic >>6961037 >Lose 2kg >2kg is literally the water weight barrier before you actually start losing weight >Implying you lost weight

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 19:08:08 2015 No.6961390

>>6961330
>different person
>stopped eating meat except fish maybe once a week for a month
>half way into this month mostly cutting out fish now too
>acid reflux completely went away and have lost 15 pounds so far

Now granted, my meat diet consisted of like 15 cheeseburgers a day and fried chicken so....

I don't really blame the meat for it. But I realized about 95% of meat products I really don't like, I only liked the stuff that was horrible for me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:06:34 2015 No.6961583 File: 114 KB, 698x829, 787847.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:15:32 2015 No.6961602 >>6959738 Smokers who refuse to admit it's bad have a similar attitude.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:21:11 2015 No.6961617 >>6961390 Goof for you for recognizing your problem and not using vegetarianism as the end all be all to your situation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:31:10 2015 No.6961650 >>6959738 My grandmother is 93 and an omnivore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:38:40 2015 No.6961687 >>6961650 mine is 92 and so is she. she also smoked for at least 40 years and drinks every day tbh.

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:49:58 2015 No.6961717
File: 730 KB, 739x479, Hawaii-Swimmers.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6961687
My great grandfather has been eating nothing but frozen steakums, old overholt whisky, and lit te amo cigars every day for the last 125 years and he just got 3rd place in the Hawaii Ironman World Champoinship.

Vegans #FFFFUUUCCKINGRRREEEEEEKKKT

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 20:50:35 2015 No.6961721 >>6961717 true

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 22:38:33 2015 No.6962123

>>6959989
No. I'm thinking of vegans, because they always argue about the killing of animals to first convince people that vegetarian is a good route, after that comes the tirade about milk and eggs. There are 13 "degrees" or "levels" of vegetarian/veganism. Some of them involve eating certain types of meat, some omit certain plants. True vegans shouldn't approve of dairy, honey, eggs, wool, and anything else that has animal products in it.

>>6959990
Feeling pain has much more to do with the presence of a central nervous system than it has to do with self awareness. My mutt of a dog can't pass a mirror test but she feels pain. That's why she squeals if I accidentally step on her foot and if she steps on a torn she'll limp on it for a few days. Animals like oysters (which any ethical vegan cannot argue against eating) have no central nervous system and therefore truly cannot feel pain because they do not have the biological capacity for it. Cows, pigs, chickens, goats, and sheep all have central nervous systems. Like I said before- you can't ask the animal if it's feeling pain, so this is really a matter of opinion. Arguing over an opinion is subjective in nature. Stating that you have no moral objection to killing animals essentially ends the discussion and you don't have to go round and round with a brick wall about how animals "can't feel pain because they're not self aware" which I personally feel is crap- and that's a perfectly valid opinion. Even the collie in the UK that can perform tasks that are BEYOND THE MENTAL CAPACITY OF A HUMAN TODDLER cannot pass the mirror test, and you really expect me to believe that it can't feel pain because of that? No. That is not compelling evidence. Pigs are biologically similar enough to humans that we use their skin and organs in medical procedures and you expect me to believe that they don't feel pain because they are not self aware? Nope. Not convinced.

You have a really, really poor argument fellow omnivore.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 22:57:57 2015 No.6962166 File: 746 KB, 500x375, 9db.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6962123

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:05:36 2015 No.6962191

>>6959384
If you're that concerned about animals, buy your meat from a small local farm rather than a factory farm. There is literally no reason to expect animals kept in decent conditions to have worse lives than wild animals unless you get your understanding of what nature is like from Disney cartoons.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:06:56 2015 No.6962198 >>6962123 Jesus Christ man, try organizing your thoughts before beginning to type next time

Anonymous Sat Oct 10 23:14:29 2015 No.6962219

>>6962123
The problem is that there's no reason to think of killing an animal as uniquely bad. Animals do not live long healthy lives like humans, do not have long term goals and complex social connection like humans. If you shut down a farm then nature will grow over it and contain a bunch of animals killing each other - and nature doesn't give a damn about making death swift and painless. Another alternative is for no animals to die by no animals being born.

The ideal of "animals all living wonderful long happy lives and dying of old age" is simply not an option outside of family pets.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 00:40:10 2015 No.6962420

>>6962219
Your first sentence just made the same argument that I have been making in different words. When someone clearly states their moral position they do not have to debate whether animals feel pain because it is known their deaths are not objectionable to them. Once that is established the argument to stop eating meat pretty much falls apart.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 00:51:30 2015 No.6962437 File: 46 KB, 599x463, CP8L1OCVEAA4K6w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] If you want to learn more about veganism go here: adaptt.org

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:05:34 2015 No.6962468 >>6959747 try addeding a mix of shredded beets to your blend. tvp+black beans+mushrooms+oats and beets.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:19:49 2015 No.6962495 >>6962437 This is a troll image, right? I can't imagine anybody would seriously believe this.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:24:11 2015 No.6962504 >>6962495 i believe it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:24:30 2015 No.6962505 File: 40 KB, 342x298, 1439121150924.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6962437 Too tired to tell if you're trolling or just phenomenally stupid.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 01:43:05 2015 No.6962550

>>6959747
Not a fan of foods meant to imitate meat. The idea of it defies logic to me.

If you're going to do it, go with black beans, oats, flour, and breadcrumbs. Throw in some veggies and bell peppers (jalapeño and/or serrano, too, if you like). Cilantro works really well with black beans. Oregano, too.

Tofu isn't bad in moderate quantities, but you shouldn't be eating it too frequently. I would recommend avoiding TVP altogether, but once in a whole isn't the end of the world I guess.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 02:02:04 2015 No.6962574 >>6959909 >L-lysine. Famously available in soybeans (and in fact, most legumes) and oats. Did you not read the ending of Jurassic Park?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 02:06:04 2015 No.6962582 >>6961325 >They are exactly the same thing, you lying vegan >believing this >2015 Vegetarian will eat animal products (dairy and eggs, etc.) vegan will not. Is that really so fucking hard?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 02:15:14 2015 No.6962596 File: 33 KB, 419x419, 1438460693572.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6961164 >and for the planet 10/10 i fell for it

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 02:24:50 2015 No.6962611 >>6962550 >defies logic LOL thanks for the advice tho

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 02:36:35 2015 No.6962635 >>6961583 This makes my chocolate milk taste all the more delicious.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:47:16 2015 No.6962882 >>6961325 My B12 deficiency has only caused moodiness and a loss of memory ...I swear I used to have a good memory

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:50:08 2015 No.6962884

>>6962550
I haven't eaten meat for 6 years. I used to (and sort of still do) think that eating "fake meat" didn't make any sense. I mean, I don't want to eat meat, why would I eat something meant to essentially be what I don't want to eat? But over time I've started eating more and more fake meat. I still think it's dumb but I just do now.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:52:55 2015 No.6962889 >>6959422 It's sure working in Canada. The meat industry has fucking crashed. Prairys lost both oil and meat recently the poor bastards

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:53:55 2015 No.6962890 >>6959738 >safest >early death sign me up honestly

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:55:16 2015 No.6962892 >>6959747 Mine are usually mostly chick pea and soy sauce with whatever bread and veggies i happen to have

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:57:08 2015 No.6962894 >>6959331 Have you tried telling them to READ THE STICKY?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 04:58:29 2015 No.6962898 >>6959832 While this was an extremely edgelord post it makes a valid point

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:00:36 2015 No.6962907 >this whole fucking thread jesus

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:08:58 2015 No.6962921 >>6962884 I haven't eaten meat for 6 years. But then again, I'm a dumb fuck. >fix'd that for you, buddy!

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:23:28 2015 No.6962945

>>6959331
As far as health and nutritional values go, there is no substantiated evidence that a vegan diet is better or worse for you than a traditional, omnivorous diet.

In fact, I have reason to believe it's a slightly inferior diet when compared to the protein intake in a traditional, omnivorous meal plan.

An average man with moderate to intense daily exercise should consume their body weights worth in grams of protein (ie. a 200 pound man would eat 200 grams of protein), and honestly, eating nothing but vegetables makes achieving that goal very hard.

Sure you can buy beans, but I did the math, and it turns out you'd need three times as many beans to receive the same amount of protein as a chunk of steak.

Sure you can buy vegan protein powder, but last I checked, my local GNC was selling a 2 pound jar of veggiepowder for 67 dollars. You're freaking INSANE if you think I'm shelling out 67 bucks for 2 pounds of powder.

The human body needs...nutrients. It needs vitamins. It needs proteins. It needs calcium and calories and oils and iron and it doesn't give a FUCK where you get those nutrients from.

Honestly? If you want to live longer, focus on moderation, exercise more, eat less junk food, stop watching so much TV, take some Omega-3 supplements, cook your own food, and recycle.

Seriously, not enough people recycle, and it's making me nervous.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:26:35 2015 No.6962950 >>6962574 I thought it was determined that the lysine found in soybeans would not have been enough to sustain the dinosaur population and they were reduced to eating the beans as a last-ditch, "they're gonna die soon" resort.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 05:37:13 2015 No.6962965

>you only have to supplement 'x' and 'y'
>you can do this if you just buy 'z' and 'a'
>it's extracted from these vegetables

It's not that it's a fad, it's that it's wrong. I eat what I kill when it comes to meat. Elk, trout, anything from where I live. The fact that you have to supplement just to sustain yourself is absolutely ridiculous. Do you know how much you waste to get those pills? I cull the herd to get those vitamins and minerals. You just fuck up the environment completely so that you can get your south american sourced supplements.

Go look up how goddamn wrong you are. You just don't have the stomach to be a predacious mammal. Some of you like to pretend that some animals don't have to die for others to live.

We are not herbivores. You guys like to hide behind political correctness but this is scientific fact that we predate on other species and doing otherwise is contrary to our natural diet. We can't change what we are as a species in a decade.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 07:28:12 2015 No.6963115 File: 56 KB, 400x400, imagine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Imagine if people just ate what they wanted to, and nobody tried to convert anyone else, and we all left each other alone. Imagine all the people... Eating food in peace woohoo.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 09:42:56 2015 No.6963348 >>6959388 Fuck me, I don't know why I kek'd so hard

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 09:46:10 2015 No.6963355 >>6959832 Utilitarianism btfo

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 09:58:46 2015 No.6963373 >>6963115 ironic, because lenin denied weird al the rights to make a song because it mentioned eating chicken and this conflicted with lenin's fascist totalitarian beliefs carnists: 1 veggens: -1000

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:26:45 2015 No.6963403 File: 90 KB, 600x618, PboS4jU8AAs29c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6963115 compared to the commercials for animal products vegans are practically silent

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:39:46 2015 No.6963433 >>6960168 The causes of Alzheimer still isn't well understood, if you claim otherwise it immediately makes me cast doubt on the rest of your "facts". Additionally, why would I give a single fuck about the well being of animals?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:41:25 2015 No.6963438 >>6961583 Honestly if ever cow needed to be tortured to death to get good meat I would give 0 shits. Animals like cows are bred to serve humans, they are unimportant otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:45:18 2015 No.6963454 >>6962437 The only valid argument towards being vegan is that (correct me if I'm wrong) it is more efficient than other diets.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 10:47:28 2015 No.6963461

>>6963403
Why is torturing other species wrong? Can you come up with an argument other than "muh feels".

Torturing humans is wrong because our entire species has a pact to be good to each other, which in turns ensures each of us is safe.

We have no such pact with animals, there is no need because we are stronger than they are.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 11:22:27 2015 No.6963544
File: 351 KB, 540x540, dinner-companion-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If you're paying attention to human history no such pact exists between humans either. Do to others as you want others to do to you.

If you're a social justice historian, you might recall all the idiotic discussions about the rationality and intelligence of certain humans, too (when certain humans wanted their freedom and equality). Victimizers and oppressors always deny that victims suffer, feel pain or are intelligent. This allows enslavement and murder to happen nonchalantly and guilt-free. The victimizers' mind-set goes like this: "You don't count because you're stupid. You don't matter because you're dumb. I laugh at your suffering. I'll kill you when I want to. I'll sell you and your family. You're worthless. You don't think the way I do. Prove to me why I should be kind to you. Prove to me that you deserve to be free." So even though victims always look and act differently from each other (bees, lobsters, cows, pigs, blacks, women, Christians, Muslims, Jews, witches, Gypsies, Rwandans, etc.), they've suffered equally because of the victimizers' mind-set. It's so trite that a few enlightened folks have to continually explain why the majority of people shouldn't be enslaving and murdering innocents en masse. Something else that has always bothered me: Why do oppressors think they're more important than THE OPPRESSED? Why do tormentors believe they're more important than THE TORMENTED? What kind of sociopath thinks murderers are more important than THE MURDERED?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:36:29 2015 No.6963770 File: 317 KB, 540x540, animalagricultureissickening-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:36:56 2015 No.6963772
File: 33 KB, 420x301, optimal-protein-intake.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6962945
Dude this post is wrong on many accounts. Firstly find me a single study that recommends 200 fucking grams of protein for 200 lb man. All studies done on the matter point to a figure a quarter to half of that. After a certain requirement of protein is met for muscle repair the rest is used as an energy source. Like starch or sugar just ten times more expensive. For elite strength athletes putting on mass 0.8g/lb is the absolute highest point where protein intake would make a difference. For the rest of us 0.8g/kg is the point it stops making a difference. And do note this is the point where there's a point of consuming protein for availability. Not requirement. Any higher is simply not available to the body. And you won't risk any deficiency till you drop below 0.3g/kg.

The whole protein requirement thing is made up by protein shake companies and their shill instructors in gyms. Since there's no immediate harm to consuming excess protein the myth endures. But a good few lifestyle diseases as well as kidney damage is associated with excess protein. The hardest part of working out is consuming an extra 500-600 kcal from healthy sources. Protein shakes are a way to circumvent that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:38:53 2015 No.6963777 File: 354 KB, 540x540, Whatifmeatproductsweresubject-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:39:41 2015 No.6963778 >>6959331 It's only bad if you're an idiot and don't know how to introduce iron and protein to your diet. It's harder to get all the nutrients you need since your not eating meat but it isn't impossible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:41:35 2015 No.6963780 File: 404 KB, 540x540, brainwashingwall-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6963115

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:43:17 2015 No.6963785 >>6959331 >eating what food eats to grow up big and strong exclusively Are you food OP?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 12:53:03 2015 No.6963815

>>6963461
Ah Mr logic himself. You don't let petty things like emotions get in the way of your decisions do you, you paragon of reason.

More than half the social and legal conventions we have spring from our capacity as a species to value emotions. A lot of animals eat their young when there's a shortage of food. They're following logic not emotions. The value of a capable adult is more than a kid that may or may not be capable in the future. Property ownership is an emotional appeal. Else the property should belong to the strongest like it does in nature. We not only keep our elderly alive but give them free money and medicine though they serve no purpose to society. Why is raping babies who will have no recollection of it illegal? Why is slavery illegal?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:05:08 2015 No.6963845 File: 24 KB, 495x495, fuck you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >a-anon, why don't you go vegan? Because I'm celiac and diabetic. Got a problem?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:11:43 2015 No.6963865

>>6963845
Cheerios are gluten free now, I think you can eat oats.
As for diabetes, most people are unaware that animal protein and fat raise blood sugar as much as stress, refined carbohydrates like white rice and sugar! Therefore, diabetes can be treated, controlled or cured with a low-protein, low-fat, low-sugar, low-refined-carbohydrate vegan diet, along with cardio exercise and a minimum amount of sress. A 2013 study also showed that marijuana is of great benefit to diabetics. As you regain control of your blood sugar, you will probably have to continue taking insulin shots for a time. However, within one year, you should be able to do away with insulin completely! (Pig serum used to be the key ingredient in insulin until doctors discovered it exacerbated foot neuropathy and ocular issues. All insulin is now made synthetically from human insulin.)

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:25:39 2015 No.6963899

>>6963865
>animal protein and fat raise blood sugar
Nice pseudoscience, but I'm always controlling my sugar level and only carbos raise sugar. And where carbos come from? Surprise, suprise, from plants. Go eat a dick.
When I eat meat/fat without carbs I don't need insuline. You can't fool me animalfucker.

>you should be able to do away with insulin completely!
Okay, you are fucking retarded. You don't even know the differences between diabetes 1 and 2. Diabetes 1 is an autoimmune disease that fuck your pancreas no matters what you eat. It's not related to food like diabetes 2.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:34:04 2015 No.6963912

>>6963865
>>6963899
he's right. type one here.

However,
>>6963899
>>6963845
type wasn't mentioned here. While I do agree type 2 can be treated almost entirely through diet and exercise (even curable in some cases), type 1 definitely cannot. Meat, veggies, cheese, are very important snacks or meals for diabetics. The lower your carb count is, the less insulin you need overall, the less weight you pack on because of it and results in less of a chance of becoming insulin resistant. (Cardio helps with that too.)

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:41:29 2015 No.6963927 >>6963912 I assumed he was talking about diabetes 1 since he mencioned "insuline shots". Diabetics 2 are not insulin dependents unless they really fuck it up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:42:56 2015 No.6963932 >>6963927 Depends on the person I guess. All type 2's in my life have ended up on insulin, at least for a small period of time.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:43:12 2015 No.6963935

>>6962420
No, that's not my argument. I am starting with the assumption that animals with a central nervous system can probably feel pain, and that them doing so is a bad thing we should care about. Even with that assumption, I cannot see any reason to believe that the correct response is to not eat any animals at all.

As I said - consider the actual alternatives we have available. A patch of land can either be used for a farm, or it can be wild, or it can be barren. When we're talking not about a factory farm but about a nicely run, small farm, with the animals getting enough space and real sunlight and so on, I cannot see any reason to expect this situation to be less moral than the alternatives. Animals in the wild have fairly difficult lives - they are constantly struggling to get enough food and water, they have to be on the lookout for predators constantly. Most don't survive to adulthood. Animals in the wild do not die swiftly but slowly and cruelly, of disease, of starvation, of predation.

Compare that to the small farm, where the animals have all the food and water they want, are protected from predators, protected from disease, and are killed swiftly and painlessly. That seems, to me, to be a more moral situation than the alternative of animals in the wild.

You could point out that farm animals are killed young, so that (maybe) the mean life length is longer for a wild animal. I'm not sure why this matters - why it should be considered more moral for one animal to live for ten years than for ten animals to live for one year each. More animals does mean more instances of guaranteed bad things like death, but it also means more instances of guaranteed good things like hopping around the meadows as a carefree young lamb, or more generally the pleasure of being alive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 13:53:25 2015 No.6963961 >>6963932 The only types 2 I know that ended up on insulin where fat as fuck and obviously they didn't take their disease seriously since been overweight is haram for diabetics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:16:50 2015 No.6964036 >>6963935 >You could point out that farm animals are killed young It's actually bretty simple, because economics. When an animal stop growing, every food you give it is a waste. And for a farmer animal food is the most expensive and limiting resource.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:22:22 2015 No.6964052 >>6963433 humans are animals >why would you give a fuck about something you can relate to

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:25:59 2015 No.6964061 >>6964052 Bacterias and plants are living being. >why would you give a fuck about something you can relate to

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:30:17 2015 No.6964075
File: 208 KB, 540x540, whethertheyaresickornot-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6963935
As for the 10 billion land animals enslaved and killed in America every year, please don't think they will be running rampant through the city streets when everyone becomes vegan. The meat, dairy and egg industries artificially impregnate hundreds of millions of land animals to create 10 billion animals to sell to 300 million meat, dairy and egg-addicted Americans. Since the basic principles of supply-and-demand are always at play, the animal slave-trade will become unprofitable once people stop buying and eating animal products; each meat, dairy and egg-eater is responsible for the deaths of 3,000 land animals and 5,000-6,000 thousand marine animals throughout their lifetime!
People love to talk about animals having more food and water justifies their imprisonment. Prisoners have medical care, but that doesn't make people want to line up and book vacations to federal penitentiaries! Prisoners at Guantanamo Bay also have medical care, but I don't think people are planning Christmas vacations to this Cuban facility.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:36:58 2015 No.6964100
File: 330 KB, 540x540, aretaxpayerspayingbillionaires-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6964061
>>6964061
Creating more animals than naturally occur takes even more plants to feed and water to fatten them up to eat them later with plants anyways. So again, veganism is the best option if you care about hurting plants (you don't).

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:38:16 2015 No.6964106

>>6964061
you can relate to life made of completely different materials? are you a fucking plant? do you grow off sunlight and live a sedentary life because you have no brain at all or even a nervous system? theres a reason schools differentiate ANIMAL cells and PLANT cells. we arent the same, we arent plants and i cannot relate to them.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:39:20 2015 No.6964109
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>>6959331
Vegetarians get by fine, but have you ever seen a vegan and thought, "damn, they look super healthy and I should do whatever it is they're doing to be so healthy?"

No, because vegans all look anemic and hungry. The human brain coevolved with cooking and a digestive system better suited for meat and other animal products. Cutting yourself off from the building blocks of your most important organs because garms are gross is retarded.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:40:18 2015 No.6964114 [DELETED]

>>6964061
>>6964061
>>6964061
Creating more animals than naturally occur takes even more plants to feed and water to fatten them up to eat them later with plants anyways. So again, veganism is the best option if you care about hurting plants (you don't).

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:43:20 2015 No.6964119 File: 21 KB, 300x191, woody.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6964109

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:46:22 2015 No.6964125 >>6964119 fuck this hollywood weirdo tbh

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:48:57 2015 No.6964133 >>6964075 >enslaved oh wait, you're serious let me laugh harder! AHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:53:20 2015 No.6964144 >>6964125 Woody is awesome.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:54:30 2015 No.6964150

>>6964100
Plants cultivation is also fucking everything. Rice cultivation produce a shit lot of methane and need tons of water because flooding. Stop eating rice shitlord. It's just a useless try to delay a bit the consecuences of overpopulation. Oh, did I mention that most of animal food are secondary products from human food?
>>6964106
>m-muh arbitrary morals
see
>>6962420

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 14:57:35 2015 No.6964160 >>6959331 Why do you even care?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:10:04 2015 No.6964188 >>6964160 oh come on thats no fun

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:11:16 2015 No.6964195

>>6964075
I'm not meaning to defend factory farming, just the principle of farming. Under good enough conditions I see no reason to expect it to be worse than what animals experience in the wild.

I'm also not implying that farm animals would otherwise be set free. Of course there are more animals in existence because of farming than there would be otherwise. I expect this is true even in the case of the kind of ethical farm I'm talking about. But I'm not sure why this is a bad thing - unless you think that an animal existing is less moral than it not existing? I can't see any reason to expect that to be true, when you take into account that animals can have positive as well as negative experiences. It also suggests odd conclusions, such as that the most moral alternative would be a world in which we have killed every single animal.

Regarding the prisoner analogy: I don't see any reason to expect animals to care about their 'muh freedom' - or that they can even tell the difference. Humans care because we have complex goals that we cannot work towards when we are imprisoned, and because our life outside of prison is a good deal better than it is inside. Animals do not have complex goals, and their life in the wild is shitty. So I don't think this is a meaningful comparison to make.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:20:31 2015 No.6964234
File: 56 KB, 599x437, CQAV4xqWIAAMq4w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6964195
I get that it's all they know since they're born into it, but saying that makes it okay, they don't know any better, and it's okay because you like the taste is the same as others that hurt or kill others because they enjoy it.
It's just dumbfounding that many of those who would grant rights to human babies, cats, dogs, and other animals they respect in an instant won't even begin to concede the rights of other beings that are, by most accounts, far more intelligent than a human infant, or cats and dogs, etc. Fortunately, Rene Descartes' idiocy about animals operating like unthinking machines has been exposed a long time ago (his idea works for plants, not animals). All animals, from insects to whales, are rational, aware, self-aware, intelligent beings. They experience an array of emotions, especially pain and happiness.
If animals and insects aren't aware, then what are they? If they are NOT capable of feeling pain, then what do they feel? Eating, sleeping, drinking, surviving, procreating, looking for shelter, building a home, defending themselves and saving each other aren't instinctual behaviors. They are thoughts attached to actions. It's the human animal who operates instinctively. Very few people think for themselves and come to rational conclusions. Pulling into McDonald's for a Big Mac is NOT rational thought. It happens because the media, the government, schools and parents tell people to do it. If humans were rational, we wouldn't be killing the animals, the earth and ourselves!

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:23:04 2015 No.6964246 >>6959384 this humans are herbivores bullshit really ticks me off

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:26:52 2015 No.6964256 >>6964246 Picture says omnivore, but I bet the people eating like herbivores live longer, better, faster stronger, than people eating only meat like carnivores.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:31:24 2015 No.6964269 >>6964119 >that platitude Definitely the work of a high-functioning brain and not some hookers-and-blow addled actor who felt bad about it all thirty years ago and quit eating meat as some bizarre self-flagellation.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:38:21 2015 No.6964289

>>6964234
> to human babies, cats, dogs, and other animals they respect
Because no one do that. Animals are inferior to humans. Cats and dogs are not as respected as human babies
>you sell cats and dogs
>tou don't sell babies

>baby as some serious birth disease
>he lives and get treatment
>dog or cat has some serious birth disease
>time to sacrifice :D

>baby dies
>drama, family cries and live with it during the rest of their lifes
>cat/dog dies
>lets buy another one :D

>you don't castrate babies
>you castrate your pet

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:42:57 2015 No.6964303 >>6964289 I'm saying just because you can do something to hurt or kill others doesn't mean you should and you know it.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:43:00 2015 No.6964304

>>6964256
Both extremes have examples of very healthy, fit, and active cultures.

Inuit used to march across the deepest depths of the arctic eating nothing but animals, and their rates of disease were far lower than those of european cultures. They also never experienced acne until grains were introduced into their diets.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 15:57:13 2015 No.6964333 >>6964303 Well, I can hurt a human but I will never do it because I feel empathy. But I have 0 empathy for animals, I don't consider them "others"

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:03:57 2015 No.6964352 >>6964303 >you know it this phrase is so fucking annoying. fuck you. >>6964333 and you. you really don't have any empathy for animals? fuck is wrong with you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:05:31 2015 No.6964356 >>6964289 Another point is if you were to replace the farm animals with cats and dogs almost every American would be against that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:11:24 2015 No.6964367 >>6964150 >arbitrary you could argue that all morals are arbitrary. i dont understand what the quote you redirected to me is even trying to say. please simplify it in a non-retarded manner

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:12:48 2015 No.6964368

>>6964352
I'm used to sacrifice animals because of my job. I can also farm an animal and eat it without any problem. Don't know m8, maybe it's because I was raised like that and got used to it. I will never understand those people who say "poor cow/pork/rabbit" and then it meat like nothing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:22:13 2015 No.6964384 >>6964109 >>6964109 >anemic and hungry i bet you're the type of person that likes "curvy women" lmaoing at you, you overweight fuck

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:26:36 2015 No.6964394
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This man has multiple world records in different weight lifting categories.
He as a vegan can outlift any single person in the thread and you say that veganism isn't a "complete" diet compared to eating animals.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:29:11 2015 No.6964401

Vegans here are coming off like jihadis.

We evolved eating some meat. Meat is good. Most of our food should be vegetables, yes, and if you can get on without eating any meat hooray good for you, but keep your fucking jihad to yourselves you uptight cunts.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:30:48 2015 No.6964406 >>6964394 Still a wheat grass drinking faggot though

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:30:55 2015 No.6964408

>>6964356
Dogs and cats are not really diferent from farming animals. Pets are for enjoyment and farming animals are for food. People are just not used to eat dog, cat, bugs, rats...
>>6964367
What I'm telling you is that any "muh feels" or morals argument is bullshit. Don't tell me that eating meat is wrong when vegans are just a bunch of special snowflakes minority. (and no, people who doesn`t eat meat because they live in a thirdworld shithole and are to poor to afford it doesn't count)

>who's wrong, me or the rest of the world?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:33:11 2015 No.6964412 >>6964394 1/1000 bodybuilders are vegan >its the way to go for everyone! >just look at this one guy, he represents everyone unlike the 999 others Also genetics and steroids made him what he is, not veganism

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:36:20 2015 No.6964417 >>6964401 I actually find them funny. It doesn't matter how many times they get btfo. They will just cover their ears and repeat the same argument again. Vegans are creationists tier

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:36:52 2015 No.6964419

>>6964412
>vaggressive

this whole thing just shows how much of a chip on their shoulder they have.

im not knocking anyone for trying to better their chances, but end of the day some people get lucky and others don't. at some point you have to admit you don't have control. i dunno.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:39:07 2015 No.6964426 >>6964412 1/1000 bodybuilders are vegan citation needed The point I'm making is that being a vegan isn't somehow going to stunt muscle mass growth. >muh genetics quit saying that phrase fatass, it's hard work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:40:37 2015 No.6964431 >>6964408 Animals are not for humans. Eating animal products is on the same level of disgusting as bestiality and necrophilia. That's all it is if we're honest and stop with the euphemisms.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:42:24 2015 No.6964438 >>6964417 >vegans are creationist tier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM2VABBYGkI

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:44:05 2015 No.6964442 >>6964431 >I'm right, you are wrong, lalalalala

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:44:55 2015 No.6964446 >>6964442 >I'm right, you are wrong, lalalalala

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:45:44 2015 No.6964447
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>>6964401
People eating animal product contribute to genocide. Don't reverse the roles.
>>6964417
Vegans give logical answers to all the questions coming. Animal product addicts ignore and use insults. Name one reason to not be vegan if you can.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:49:05 2015 No.6964455 >>6964447 >being this insane Get a shrink, bro. Or go get your chakras aligned if you are that far into the woo-woo.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:50:39 2015 No.6964460

>>6964447
>Name one reason to not be vegan if you can.
More like give me a reason to become vegan, specialy when I'm celiac, diabetic and meat is the only thing I can eat without worries

>>6964446
still waiting for some argument that isn't "muh morals>yours because fuck you"

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:51:03 2015 No.6964461 >>6964455 See, insults.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 16:51:54 2015 No.6964463 >>6964431 But man has been eating meat since the beginning of time. Whats the big deal?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:03:03 2015 No.6964492 >>6964461 And you call us genocidal maniacs. You are a cunt; deal with it.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:04:35 2015 No.6964499

>>6964447
>Name one reason to not be vegan if you can.
It's actually the opposite. As >>6964463
said humans have been always eating meat and farming animals. It's you the ones who want to change the world, so at least give some good reasons.

Waiting for those logical answers.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:06:06 2015 No.6964505 >>6964463 Rape, murder, molestation, slavery, abuse, and cannibalizing, and everything evil has as long a history. You can choose not to participate.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:07:55 2015 No.6964510 >>6959331 Let them eat what they want. Eat what you want to eat.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:08:43 2015 No.6964513 File: 83 KB, 599x549, Pg7nLSWsAAaigv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6964499 There plenty to learn in this thread already and don't just take my word for it

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:09:17 2015 No.6964517 >>6964505 Eating meat is not considered evil by 99,9% of the world. You can choose not to be a special snowflake

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:10:42 2015 No.6964523

Why are vegans always trying to convert people? Fucking lunatic cult.

>Anon, why don't you turn vegan? Don't you care about animals?
First of all, I love eating meat. I need no other reason. And second:
Bitch, I'm close to finishing my Masters in Veterinary, I will directly save more animal lives in a week than you in your whole life, you dumb cunt.You think that by not eating meat, supermarkets (and all that entails) are gonna stop having a huge supply of meat on display?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:12:00 2015 No.6964530 >>6964523 its like mormons. yeah they're overly nice and all that but underneath it all they're assholes trying to push their beliefs on you.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:14:25 2015 No.6964544

>>6964460
Well, I'm learning about this now, but internet search is showing options you have. Obviously you are in a minority and need to plan any changes with a doctor, but you really are gonna have even more health problems if all you can eat is meat.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:14:51 2015 No.6964547 Vegans are just like muslim terrorists, they want to brainwash you to convert and become one of many in their soulless horde of zombies with no opinion of their own.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:15:20 2015 No.6964549

>>6964530

The thing is, even in my course, vegan arguments are always muh feels muh ecosystem. Not eating meat on the off-chance it might contain something like Brucelose is a far stronger reason. Then again, those same stupid whores take selfies while doing rectal palpation on cows, so who gives a shit what they say?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:16:24 2015 No.6964557 >>6964492 The shoe fits. If it insults you it's because your conscience is realizing something. So change.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:19:06 2015 No.6964574 File: 120 KB, 421x521, byo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6964523 >>6964530 >>6964547 >>6963780

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:22:16 2015 No.6964589
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>>6964549
What's more, chicken, pig, turkey and cow excrement comprise the sole source of all the recent E. Coli, salmonella and listeria outbreaks in which spinach, tomatoes, peanuts, jalapeño peppers, cantaloupe and other plant products have been implicated. E. Coli, salmonella and listeria have only one source: SHIT (human or animal)! Since spinach, peanuts, jalapeños, cantaloupe and tomatoes don't shit, spinach, peanuts, jalapeños, cantaloupe and tomatoes cannot be blamed for this problem. E. Coli, salmonella and listeria found their way to the plants because people who enslave animals for meat, dairy or eggs contaminate the waterways by dumping nearly 2.7 trillion pounds of manure into America's lakes, rivers and streams annually. Contaminated water eventually ends up on some of the crops as run-off, passing E. Coli, salmonella and listeria to the consumer. Also, more frighteningly, there are many times when farmers literally spray tons of RAW animal shit directly on the crops. Make no mistake: ALL E. Coli, salmonella and listeria incidents occur because of animal agriculture. Meat, dairy and egg-eaters want to eat billions of land animals. So ConAgra, Smithfield, Tyson, Perdue, etc. MASS PRODUCE billions of land animals far in excess of the numbers that would occur if these animals were left to their own reproductive devices and inclinations. Billions of land animals produce trillions of pounds of excrement

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:23:34 2015 No.6964595 File: 121 KB, 428x517, zbhih43waa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6963373 >lenin denied weird al the rights to make a song because it mentioned eating chicken and this conflicted with lenin's fascist totalitarian beliefs

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:25:55 2015 No.6964615

>>6964513
Most of this was already proven wrong.
>Health
Most of vegans are richfags and health maniacs. Of course they are more healthy than the average midle class soda/fast food addict. But lets go to Japan. They have the longest life span and they eat fish like crazy.

>environment
Environment is getting fucked by overpopulation, not meat. Again, agriculture is also destroing everything because we need every day more food and water.
>father was fired
>no family income
>lets stop buying x, yep that will fix everything

>Ethics
Bullshit since most of the world doesn't think like you, so eating meat is not inmoral. Maybe it's you the one who watched too much Wall Disney

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:26:59 2015 No.6964622 File: 3.26 MB, 1920x1080, vlcsnap-2015-02-01-15h05m47s195.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6964589 >>6964574 You actually think people care. How adorably autistic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:31:10 2015 No.6964642 >>6964544 Is not that I can't only eat meat. But I can't eat full carbo like you vegans do. I always need to supplement my foods with fish/meat and veggies. Fuck, I can only eat half banana.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:31:14 2015 No.6964643

>>6964622
Florida researcher Robert Cade, M.D., and his colleagues have identified caso-morphin, a natural form of morphine found only in cows' milk, as the probable cause of attention deficit disorder (ADD) and autism. They found Beta-caso-morphin-7 in high concentrations in the blood and urine of patients with either schizophrenia or autism. (Autism, 1999, 3) Eighty percent of protein in cows' milk is casein. It has been documented that casein breaks down in the stomach to produce the peptide caso-morphin, an opiate. Another researcher observed that caso-morphin aggravated the symptoms of autism. (Panksepp, J., Trends in Neuroscience, 1979, 2) A third scientist produced evidence of elevated levels of endorphin-like substances in the cerebro-spinal fluid of people with autism. (Gillberg, C., Aspects of Autism: Biological Research (London: Gaskell, 1988), pp. 31-37)

Other research papers suggest a possible link between dairy consumption and the autism spectrum of disorders

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:32:37 2015 No.6964658

>>6964574
>including figures of authority

If that was true the police would get on your case for not eating meat as part of their job. People would be sent to government sponsored psychiatric care for being vegan.

People only get berated for being vegetarian if they are complete fuckheads about it. Like you are doing right now by making absurdly exaggerated claims.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:34:04 2015 No.6964664 >>6964642 Man, I'm on those gluten free Cheerios right now. They're full of vitamins too. Even 25% of b12 per cup

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:34:10 2015 No.6964665 File: 1.23 MB, 1280x720, vlcsnap-2015-04-11-20h21m31s126.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6964643

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:39:47 2015 No.6964687

>>6964447
>Name one reason to not be vegan if you can.
We can eat and digest the meat of every animal on this planet.
Many plants on this planet are poisonous for us humans.
Our earliest ancestors during the ice age had no choice but to hunt and eat meat, the entire planet was covered in snow so plants and/or fruits weren't available. The protein in the meat actually made our ancestors brains grow and made them smater.
If meat was so bad for us like the vegans claim, then meat would be poisonous for us. Why don't people drop dead when they take one single bite into a piece of meat?!
Predators have to be smart to capture and take down their prey. A plant won't run from you so even the dumbest slowest creature on this planet could 'capture' and eat it.
Take a look at your teeth and then take a look at the teeth of a herbivore like a cow for instance. Our canine and premolar teeth were once fangs. They just started to grow smaller and less pointy as our ancestors evolved into us the modern human of today. Our teeth still resemble those of a carnivore more than those of herbivore.
Cows have multiple stomachs we humans don't.
Some herbivore animals must swallow stones in order to digest the plants they eat. Did you ever need to swallow stones in order to digest meat?!
Your turn vegans, make me laugh.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:44:32 2015 No.6964702 >>6964664 >Cheerios Still carbo m8. Also I know some vegetarians, and as you probably know, most what they eat that substitute meat contain gluten. I was simply not geneticaly designed to be vegan.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:46:35 2015 No.6964708 >>6964687 Omnivores man, omnivores. Don't give that fuckhead that is calling anyone who eats meat a "carnist" ammo.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:47:14 2015 No.6964712

>>6964574
Nope i always could eat what i wanted to. My parents never forced me to eat anything i don't like. I prefer meat because it tastes better and i see no problem with eating something that nature provided us with to be our food in the first place. Plus i'm not a brainwashed food hipster who wants to be a special snowflake. Also what gives vegans the right to tell me what i should eat and what not inside my own home?! In my own four walls i can cook and eat whatever i want and what i eat is none of your business.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:47:24 2015 No.6964713 >>6964702 i don't get vegans. why complicate something so simple that works so well already? yeah animal cruelty sucks and if i worked a job like that id probably kill myself, but you know, you're disconnected from that shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:49:44 2015 No.6964727 Saying and doing something to stop animal cruelty and the destruction on the planet is more important than worrying about annoying some person(s) and having some insult(s) thrown at you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:50:06 2015 No.6964731 >>6964708 Eat a steak. After that eat some poison ivy. We will see which one of those two will kill you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:51:58 2015 No.6964741 >>6964712 Suggestions to help make improvements. You don't have to read any of this. I'm not getting paid to tell you about it.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:59:25 2015 No.6964763

>>6964234
I think you are still missing the point. Take a farm with animals kept in nice conditions. Why is that a worse scenario than the alternative ways that land could be used, from an animal suffering perspective?

You can keep making comparisons to humans, but animals are not humans and do not have the same experiences, as I have already said. An animal does not know or care if it is 'free', all it knows and cares about is whether it has enough to eat and isn't being hunted down by predators or dying from disease.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 17:59:31 2015 No.6964764 >>6964741 Uhm what improvements?! Being anorexic and ignorant isn't really an 'improvement'.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 18:07:07 2015 No.6964793
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>>6964687
There's no such thing as healthy meat, dairy and eggs, just as there's no such thing as healthy cigarettes, cigars and chewing tobacco!
There are many plants on this planet good for humans.
The logical Evolutionary theory surmises that when the Ice Age wiped out most vegetation, we started killing and consuming animals in a pure survival scenario. When the Ice Age ended, however, we should have reverted back to the gathering lifestyle that kept us connected to, and part of, the natural world, not fallaciously on top of it. Contrary to the lies being spread by biased meat, dairy and egg-eating scientists, meat was NOT responsible for brain development either. It was plant starch. Believing that meat is beneficial to anyone’s brain is an absurd notion anyway. If meat contained a magic potion to help the brain evolve, then why did Albert Einstein – who incidentally abstained from meat-eating – figure out the Theory of Relativity before sharks, snakes and hyenas? And why haven’t the still-existing, meat-eating tribal societies invented computers or cars yet? Fortunately, any person with HALF A BRAIN understands that something else was at play when CERTAIN humans ascended the “technology” ladder, and separated themselves from OTHER humans, and the rest of the animal kingdom.
Why don't people drop from one cig? It gradually happens.
Most herbivores have canines, incisors and molars, which are used for ripping rough foods like apples, carrots or nuts. Some canines are also used for posturing; they are present to strike fear into the heart of any predator thinking about attacking. This is why hippos (vegans) have the fiercest canines on the planet! For the record, many people believe that lions are the kings of the jungle. But if you put a lion in a room with a hippo, the lion would look for a way out because nobody fucks with a hippo!
We are different from cows.
Don't swallow stones or animal products, human.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 18:10:11 2015 No.6964808 So this is why vegans spit instead of swallowing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 18:44:38 2015 No.6964902 Heard vegans are the 'most aggressive' community today from people that eat parts of corpses and secretions of animals.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 18:46:58 2015 No.6964910 >>6964902 As opposed to those animals getting to live harmonious carefree lives in a magical forest, right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 18:54:18 2015 No.6964932 Hippies truly are scum.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:12:32 2015 No.6964968

>>6964910
Nobody ever said that. Without freedom there is no reason to exist! The truth is, longer lives never translate into happier lives. The solution is teaching people about the vegan lifestyle. It always comes back to veganism. Good people—the ones who maintain good habits, and observe worthwhile traditions and customs— don't just talk about kindness. They practice it. They don't pray about love. They actually give it. It is not your right—based on YOUR traditions, YOUR customs and YOUR habits—to deny animals THEIR freedom so you can harm them, enslave them and kill them. That's not what rights are about. That's injustice. There is no counter-argument to veganism. Accept it. Apologize for the way you've been living. Make amends and move forward.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:23:35 2015 No.6965001

>>6964968
>Without freedom there is no reason to exist!

Can you please explain to me why I should believe that animals even understand the concept of freedom, much less value it over a guaranteed food and water supply, protection from predators and disease, and a death that is quick and painless?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:37:48 2015 No.6965036
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>>6959433
>the environment
well, personally i don't eat red meat, partly due to the health benefits and partly due to the environmental impact of raising beef (water use, feed use, emissions, etc)
but the difference between going vegetarian and just eating fish, pork and chicken, all of which are delicious, are really negligible, and i'd never go vegan
the emotional side of it has literally no impact on me, i know i can kill a chicken and break it down with my bare hands and use it all, and i feel great about that

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:39:49 2015 No.6965039

>>6964902
heard omnivores are inhuman and unnatural from people that eat crops grown in shit and wont stop proselytizing their fad diet

got no problem with anyone being vegetarian, all respect to people with that willpower, but stop shoving your ideology down people's throat

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:40:31 2015 No.6965043 >>6965036 Cows can be raised on land that is unfit for growing crops. Animal feed is composed largely of the parts of crops that are not good for human consumption. I think the environmental problems of beef are usually overstated.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:40:41 2015 No.6965044

>>6965001
You can easily observe animals for yourself and see they like being free.

Can you prove to me that you understand the concept of freedom much less value it over a guaranteed food and water supply, protection from predators and disease, and a death that is quick and painless?

The stress of confinement and lethargy of captivity can also lead to neurotic behaviors like pacing, attacking each other, and self-mutilation.

Every thing that is natural to an animal, has been made UNNATURAL by the state-sanctioned animal prison system that operates for one reason and one reason alone; the almighty dollar.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:44:13 2015 No.6965054

>>6965044
I can tell you that I value freedom. For animals, I cannot see any reason to believe they care about freedom beyond getting enough space. A bunch of chickens in a coop, a herd of cows in a field, do not even notice the fence surrounding them, much less get upset by it.

If we were talking factory farmed animals in cramped conditions then you would have a point. But we're not, so you don't.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:47:49 2015 No.6965060 >>6965054 Wait, by coop I meant run. The big mesh thing, not the little wooden house.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:49:28 2015 No.6965067 File: 382 KB, 540x540, howdohumanelyraisedcattlecompare-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6965054

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:52:52 2015 No.6965071 >>6959892 https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/21lleu/a_vegan_diet_that_requires_supplements_is_neither/

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:55:28 2015 No.6965079

>>6965067
Three years chomping grass with no need to fear predators or disease? A quicker death than in the wild?

I addressed the lifespan thing upthread: I see no reason to consider one animal that lives for ten years to be a more moral alternative than ten animals each living for one year. More generally it sounds like the life of a farmed cow as you describe is probably better than the life of a wild cow.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:57:59 2015 No.6965091 >>6959937 plants don't have a nerve system, more plants are killed by meat-eaters, and humans need to eat plants to survive unlike meat http://veganrabbit.com/2013/03/18/plant-sentience-and-pain/

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 19:59:40 2015 No.6965097 >>6965067 >showing two different breeds of cattle >breeds are built and look different >trying to use that to sell your point Go eat a dick

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:03:06 2015 No.6965104 >>6959989 dairy does support killing, all male calves are killed. but general animal welfare is definitely a part of it as well.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:03:34 2015 No.6965107

>>6965067
Also:
>artificially inseminated or force-bred

Hahaha, as opposed to wild cattle that look deep into their partner's eyes and give affirmative consent for each level of sexual escalation?

Give me a break. It's this kind of nonsensical anthropomorphism that fuels most of the emotional appeal of veganism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:05:43 2015 No.6965118 File: 198 KB, 540x540, weseewhatheywantustosee-lg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:07:43 2015 No.6965123 >>6959989 >>6965104 also, females are killed after their milk production slows and isn't profitable, at around 5 years as to their full lifespan of 20-25 years

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:09:43 2015 No.6965130 >>6965118 There so cute I fucking love chickens to eat and snuggle

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:10:03 2015 No.6965131

>>6965107
Idk about all the specifics of animals mating habits, but that doesn't excuse people actions. Now that you mention anthropomorphism remember that you can see it all over animal products with their mascots selling their selves and other members of the same species to people (especially kids).

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:10:42 2015 No.6965133

>>6965118
>and no matter where they live, they are all violently slaughtered

All animals are killed before they can die of old age - wild or farmed. The lucky ones are violently slaughtered. The rest die slowly and painfully if disease or starvation or injury.

Animals are not humans. When will you vegans understand this?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:18:45 2015 No.6965163

>>6965131
>but that doesn't excuse people actions

Yes it does. It gives us a baseline we can use to understand whether we are improving the lives of animals beyond what they would otherwise be experiencing or not, which seems to me as the only meaningful way of judging the morality of our actions. If we make the lives of animals better than they would have been if we had not intervened, how does it make sense to condemn our actions as immoral just because we could have made their lives even better but didn't - unless you are also going to say that having not intervened, having not made a farm and instead having left that land to nature, would have been even more immoral?

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:21:35 2015 No.6965172
File: 329 KB, 496x654, Philosoraptor.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6965133
I don't know why it didn't occur to me before I read this post but vegans/vegetarians should get along amazingly well with rabid,religon anti abortion people.

Essentially the same philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:37:58 2015 No.6965209 >>6964513 I watched all those docs and I thought it was bullshit. Course, the only good Food Documentary out there is Fat Head.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 20:43:27 2015 No.6965219

>>6965172
I am vegan and pro-choice. A woman's body is her own fucking business. Only after 30 wks does the brain begin to show patterns of waking consciousness when they develop a neocortex. Not the same philosophy. I think any person anti abortion and/or saying "all lives matter" is a person that should be vegan though since they claim to value life so much. Practice what you preach.

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:02:34 2015 No.6965251
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>>6965219
Calm down the mad and just hear me out

Vegans: I know what is morally best for animals, how they live and die. Let nature take its course

Anti choice nut bags: I know what is morally best for a child, how they live and die. It's gods will

The rest of us are heathens.

It's ok man just admit the two groups are kindred spirits. Realistically if you teamed up there might be a larger portion of the population that dosn't despise you for your righteousnes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:39:57 2015 No.6965357 test

Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:45:36 2015 No.6965378

>>6959384
>Humans are the only species on the planet that drink the milk of anouther species and continue to do so as adults.

You know what else humans are the only species on the planet to do? Fly around the world in giant fucking metal tubes that burn oil for propulsion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:50:37 2015 No.6965392 How about just minding your own business the same way you wish vegans/vegetarians would stay out of yours?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:50:39 2015 No.6965393 File: 57 KB, 600x600, C5h4n8WoAAPECv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 21:54:12 2015 No.6965402 File: 44 KB, 536x502, PnQcUVUAAAiR9N.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 22:01:05 2015 No.6965421 >>6965392 See the post after yours. That is exactly what they believe. They think a rabid, mange-infested fox is on the same level as a human.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 22:03:00 2015 No.6965426 >>6959855 >They don't feel pain, it's nociception You say this with such certainty and yet you don't really know if it's true.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 22:06:48 2015 No.6965443 >>6964731 >attacking someone on your side with an argument as irrational as the vegan troll Retard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 22:13:13 2015 No.6965472 File: 42 KB, 720x439, 1388715536997.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6965402 >45% of the Earth's land

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 23:09:19 2015 No.6965648 File: 29 KB, 599x396, changes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 23:34:20 2015 No.6965703 >>6965648 You really shoudn't give homeless people money though. There's a plenty of charities and programs to help them.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 11 23:41:34 2015 No.6965715 >>6965648 >>6965402 Does vegetarianism make you passive-aggressive?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:12:32 2015 No.6965780 >>6959331 Don't go vegan. Most vegans I know eat a whole lot of french fries and chips.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:21:36 2015 No.6965800

>>6964052
>>6964052
I could say the exact same thing as you

>why would you give a fuck about something you can relate to

You say that as if it's a given that I care for the well-being of everything I relate to, which is not the case. I might relate to a murderer, doesn't mean I want him to be treated well.

>inb4 cows aren't murderers

I'm only refuting a single point, so don't try and move the goalposts.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:25:52 2015 No.6965814

>>6964447
>reason to not be vegan
Meat tastes good and the well-being of animals is not something I care about in the slightest.

I'm actually switching over to a vegan soylent diet because of my passion for efficiency, so it's not even my selfish desire as a motivation for my stance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:30:15 2015 No.6965824 >>6965814 >Meat tastes good and the well-being of animals is not something I care about in the slightest. Comes as no surprise because people like you typically feel the same way about other humans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:33:52 2015 No.6965837 >>6959384 Modern mankind can also choose to eat dicks but that doesn't make it a good choice for everyone.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:34:53 2015 No.6965839 >>6964447 I don't want to be vegan because doing so is simply difficult. It's more time consuming for worse tastes.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:35:40 2015 No.6965841

>>6965251
I've read you post a few times and have no idea how you're making that leap. Not even the most liberal pro choice hippy would be for the murder and torture of fetuses for enjoyment. And not even the most ardent vegan would value the life of a cow over the well-being of a human. That's what you're equating, killing an unborn fetus that would mentally and physiologically alter the mothers life and body to killing an animal raised in horrible conditions just because we enjoy meat. We don't need it. One is a protective act and the other a destructive one.

And for the record no sane human should think of abortion as normal or a part of life. It is a tragedy in the true sense of the word. But however tragic it doesn't supercede a person's right over their own body. Like euthanasia it's not something to be celebrated but accepted as the lesser of the evils. I'm completely pro choice but completely against the women trying to trivialize it. Similarly I'm completely for medical testing on animals or the use of animal products in medicine when necessary but against their exploitation and torture for food.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:50:55 2015 No.6965881 >>6959331 >I'm pretty sure it has some bad health effects if you don't eat meat. lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 00:56:12 2015 No.6965903 >>6965841 >but against their exploitation and torture for food. What about farmed animals that aren't tortured but are instead treated well?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 01:01:55 2015 No.6965916 >catering to vegans jesus christ how annoying

>>	syn !!5auGoPfbzhy Mon Oct 12 01:11:33 2015 No.6965939 >>6959433 Take a look at your teeth in the mirror, you stupid cuck. Mankind was designed/evolved (take your pick) to hunt and kill animals by running them down until they were exhausted and slaughtering them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 01:14:09 2015 No.6965945 >>6965839 You already have worse tastes, anon.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 01:19:41 2015 No.6965963

>>6965939

Most herbivores have canines, incisors and molars, which are used for ripping rough foods like apples, carrots or nuts. Some canines are also used for posturing; they are present to strike fear into the heart of any predator thinking about attacking. This is why hippos (vegans) have the fiercest canines on the planet! For the record, many people believe that lions are the kings of the jungle. But if you put a lion in a room with a hippo, the lion would look for a way out because nobody fucks with a hippo!

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 01:25:04 2015 No.6965971 >>6965963 Creationist pls

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 02:03:04 2015 No.6966066 I hope some of y'all become vegan after reading this thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 02:08:36 2015 No.6966082 >>6965963 So you'd rather be a bloodthirsty vegetarian than a sane omnivore.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:11:40 2015 No.6966206 >>6962945 your "beef" with all of this is the protein question? the cheapest protein you can possibly buy is vegan. Its soybean protein isolate and its 89.51g per $1 here: http://shop.honeyville.com/soy-protein-isolate.html

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:13:15 2015 No.6966210 >>6962950 1 cup oats ties the lysine question up for my diet, not that hard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:15:44 2015 No.6966218 >>6962965 we don't have to live that way anymore. we can be above that as intelligent beings and take pride in that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:19:38 2015 No.6966233 >>6963461 what if there are beings higher than us? you think it would be morally justified if they claimed the planet for themselves?

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:20:30 2015 No.6966235

>>6964615
>go to sleep
>wake up
>still not proven wrong

I'm going to assume that the vegan poster is just a troll since he never refute my arguments.
As I said here >>6964417 he's just repeating the same shit over and over despiste getting proven wrong multiple times

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:32:26 2015 No.6966250 When we exhaust our animal source do we resort to eating other humans?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:50:16 2015 No.6966271 >>6966250 We are not going to exhaust animals, we can make them reproduce more. But we are going to exhaust soon water and cultivable land.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 03:51:23 2015 No.6966273

>>6966250
Yeah, animals are not oil, and especially not farmed animals. Hell, there are more sheep in New Zealand than people, and the same for many other times of purpose-bred animals all over the place. And this is with us 'heartless carnivors' 'genociding' them with every tool at our disposal.

And inb4 'muh mammoths' and 'muh bison'; humans when they put their minds to it are real good at destroying shit. We also learned how stupid that was, hence the incredible breeding processes we developed to feed people meat without wiping out the sources.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 05:34:57 2015 No.6966359
File: 1.44 MB, 386x281, durn_to_you.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6962921
That too.
I stopped eating meat as a joke and it just kinda stuck. I don't care about animal or any of that shit. I'm just too dumb to stop. That and after this long I'm kinda grossed out by meat now. Never was at all before though.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 09:38:28 2015 No.6966683

>>6963935
Your post and quote below is literally the argument I've been making this whole thread. Your "wild vs farm" rambling is really just fluff to a person trying to convince you to not eat meat.

I've tried suggesting to vegans that they might get better reception if they advocate against factory farming specifically, but they usually say that it'd be a good start and that is a slippery slope ready to happen.

>>6962219
>there's no reason to think of killing an animal as uniquely bad

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 10:38:38 2015 No.6966771

>>6959331
Vegans can't eat cake with eggs or milk or butter. Bake delicious cakes.
>sorry you can't have any, it's got ingredients vegans can't eat.
Vegetarians aren't unhealthy though. They can eat eggs and shit to replace the meat for protein. In a lot of poor parts of the world meat is a luxury only consumed for big events. They have milk, honey or eggs pretty often though, because you don't have to kill the animal.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 11:14:02 2015 No.6966838
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>>6966771
cakes and other desserts made with egg substitutes (pic related) and milk alternatives (almond, hemp, flaxseeds, coconuts, oats and hazelnuts, and soy) taste superior and won't have salmonella or acidic animal protein, cholesterol, etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 12:36:33 2015 No.6966957 >>6961717 So your great-grandfather is Timothy O'Donnell? http://timothyodonnell.com/ Seems kinda young for 125. #FFFFUUUCCKINGRRREEEEEEKKKT

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 13:12:06 2015 No.6967022 >>6966838 >taste superior Nah, they generally taste like crap. >salmonella we are talking about a cake that gets baked at 350 degrees right? >cholesterol essential to the production of testosterone

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 13:34:09 2015 No.6967080
File: 53 KB, 600x600, 75684365.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6967022
All the different kinds of milk alternatives taste as good or superior to cow's milk and nobody gets hurt or has their milk stolen.
If you're making muffins or cookies you have to make sure nobody licks the spoon or the bowl if you use eggs. No fun. Eggs are chicken periods anyways. Gross. No chicken has to get hurt or have eggs stolen.
The only good cholesterol is the kind your own body makes. If you bring it in from an outside source, it's bad cholesterol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 14:42:01 2015 No.6967252 >>6967080 >taste as good or superior No, the majority of them taste like grass or grain. Soy and hemp in particular. Almond is O-kay, but not nearly as good. I drink about 2 gallons of milk a week, you are not going to convince me on taste.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 16:04:59 2015 No.6967457
File: 27 KB, 480x251, Psf06HUYAExCgP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6967252
>>6967252
mother cows make milk for THEIR babies and for THEIR babies alone. They certainly don't make milk for baby humans, adolescents humans or adult humans. The human body has no need for cow milk, just as it has no need for dog milk, giraffe milk, zebra milk, camel milk, goat milk or rhinoceros milk. The only milk that anyone ever needs comes from THEIR own mothers' breasts! And when weaning is completed, milk is never needed again. Without a doubt, dairy is the stupidest and most unnatural 'food' consumed by humans. Have you ever turned on a wildlife program and watched a lion tackle an antelope—not to kill her, but to suck milk from her teats? If a mother cow is lactating, and her baby isn't present, then the mother and the baby are being tortured.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 16:29:34 2015 No.6967534

>>6965824
No, because I see a good and practical reason to be kind to humans. I am kind to most everyone I meet and in turn many of them are kind to me. It seems like a practical arrangement.

You don't need an emotional reason to be good to others, It just makes logical sense to be kind to humans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 16:30:38 2015 No.6967539 >>6966066 >Thread full of vegans getting BTFO >Implying people will convert is this bait?

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 16:35:10 2015 No.6967550

>>6967457
They make milk for whatever the fuck we use their milk for, what a cow wants is irrelevant.

Your arguments come from emotion, which basically means they can be immediately rejected for lack of substance.

The well being of an animal that is not human does not matter to me personally in the slightest, humans own this planet because we are superior to all other animals by a HUGE margin.

Note that my definition of superiority comes from intellectual capacity and ability to act on that capacity.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 17:21:07 2015 No.6967651

>>6967550
Your arguments come from addictions, habits, and traditions so much so that you can't even comprehend that milk from animals (including humans) is made for babies not you. I have scientific proof that milk is going to fuck you up if you continue to drink it and you're calling me emotional. If you had superior intelligence you'd realize.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 17:24:44 2015 No.6967665 >>6967457 I consumed the baby as veal parmesan or marsala, and as long as the cow is milked on a regular basis the cow is not suffering.

Anonymous Mon Oct 12 17:39:56 2015 No.6967704

>>6967651
Good thing I wasn't arguing milk was good for you or else you might be able to refute my point with the outsourced "scientific evidence"

That ad hominem really solidified your argument though.

But in all seriousness, you've not refuted my point at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 17:40:57 2015 No.6967708 >>6967704 *unsourced

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 17:48:42 2015 No.6967734 >>6967704 The only thing you said is you like cow's milk. That's subjective. I gave you reasons to quit. You decide. >>6967708 There are sources in the thread. Search engine any of those facts and you can learn more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 12 18:26:06 2015 No.6967829 >>6967734 I never said I like cows milk, I just said I'm okay with people drinking it because cows are subject to our will. Additionally, I'm not arguing about whether milk is good for you or not, that is irrelevant to my point.

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/ck/ - Food & Cooking