/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.6664988]

Can you guys redpill me on wine?

Providing they use the same grape, is there any difference between a $5000 bottle from 1942 and a $9.99 bottle of Yellow Tail from my local store?
I got into an argument with a rich snob boomer and he is 100% convinced he can tell the difference between quality wine and "piss wine" as he calls it.

Is expensive wine the ultimate placebo effect of all time and a genius marketing tactic to get rich people's money?
Or is there truly subtle taste differences that my plebeian palate can't detect?

Please educate me on this.

[Anonymous No.6665018]

>>6664988
Simple : try it by your self!

Buy a 5000$ bottle and a 5.99$ bottle and make a tasting... Wine is all about tasting...

[Anonymous No.6665020]

>>6665018
And if you don't find a difference between the two wines... Please stop drinking wine and go back to coke...

[Anonymous No.6665021]

>>6664988
So you don't really know about wines but you insisted on arguing with someone who obviously probably knew a great deal more than you on the subject?

[Anonymous No.6665023]

There's little to redpill, sadly. More expensive wine is better than cheap wine.

However, something you should keep in mind is that wine pricing also heavily depends upon region of its origin. You can get excellent wines from California, for example - but because they're domestic (and not from those savages in Europe), the bottle will be cheaper.

Also, cheap wines have their place. I'd never spend more than 15$ for a bottle of wine I expect to drink everyday.

One more thing. Australia produces some good, cheap wine if you know what to shop for.

[Anonymous No.6665025]

Are the "Redhill" guys fascists or misogynist

[Anonymous No.6665029]

Price does not guarantee quality. I had a glass of Merlot from a $300 bottle that was completely inferior to a $15 bottle.

There were a couple of wine buffs working for the BBC who tasted some wines and then a month later, unknowingly tasted the same wines. Their assessments on taste, value etc were completely different.

There are some genuine experts out there but most wine snobs don't really have a clue.

[Poorfag McGee No.6665032]

>>6665020
>>6665021
So
>m-muh butthurt
You basically can't explain the difference using the English language?
Mask your ignorance with your butthurt all you want. I'm genuinely interested in the answer too OP.
Is it more pungent?
Is it less sugary, or more?
Does it gain or lose a smoothness with aging?
ETC ETC, explain to me in detail.

[Anonymous No.6665033]

Age changes the taste of the wine, but like anything, quality at the start indicates quality down the road. If you have a bad young wine you're gonna have a bad old wine. I don't think age suddenly makes a wine good.

My guess? Fancier grapes/more care and attention put into bottling makes for a better wine, which only gets better with age. Ultimately I suppose it depends on your palate. If you've never tasted a $5000 bottle of wine then there's no real comparison from a $10 bottle. I'm sure there are wine connoisseurs out there who have spent the time to get to know different wines intimately, and to them the difference between a $5000 bottle from 1942 and a $9.99 bottle of Yellow Tail is like the climates of Earth and Pluto.

If you really want to get into wine, go on a tasting tour or find some wine club near you.

[Anonymous No.6665034]

>>6664988
>Redpill
It's a Jew conspiracy anon Gas the vineyards wine war now.

[Anonymous No.6665037]

>>6665023
I live in Western Australia. We have good reds but not great ones. Go Chile - the best value/taste going. Drunk a lot of french small yard wines as well and there is just something about loire reds that is soooo good.

[Anonymous No.6665040]

>>6665033

>Fancier grapes

Grapes are grapes, you fucking faggot.

Mashing up tomatoes, then making your logo a royal seal from the 1300s and charging $500 a bottle doesn't change the fact it's still ketchup.

[Anonymous No.6665049]

>>6664988

>Is expensive wine the ultimate placebo effect of all time and a genius marketing tactic to get rich people's money?

Yes. The most expensive wines are expensive due to being made expensive to make people want them more, not due to a merit of flavor or more expensive production methods.

>Or is there truly subtle taste differences that my plebeian palate can't detect?

Yes. Wines taste different. Cheap wines are usually pissier than expensive wines. That's the reason they are cheap.

Mid range prices are usually the ones you want. They combine proper production methods and high enough quality without Jewing you out of your cash due to the prestige of the label.

>>6665029

It's not that much about 'having a clue'. A different circumstance will make anything taste different than it did at another time. Depending on what you have eaten before, the surrounding odors, how you slept, how you feel etc. I wouldn't fault them too much for not giving an exact copy of their earlier answers.

[Anonymous No.6665052]

>>6665040
>Grapes are grapes
THIS IS WHAT PROLES ACTUALLY BELIEVE

[Anonymous No.6665055]

>>6665052

So premium winemakers have access to secret species of grapes and have them under lock and key?

The Cabernet Sauvignon they use is different?

[Anonymous No.6665059]

Recommended viewing Oz and James Big wine adventures

There's a lot of placebo effect, definetely, and there's some actual difference in quality.

The more expensive wines are just muh heritage brand name and muh exclusive number of bottles.

[Anonymous No.6665066]

>>6665040

Nothing on planet Earth is 100% the same in quality every single time, you fucking contrarian faggot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine#Grape_varieties

Get the fuck out of my /ck/

[Anonymous No.6665068]

>>6665055
>better growers dont produce better grapes with the same genetic material

[Anonymous No.6665071]

>>6665066
Yes, no shit. I know there's different types of wine grapes.

The main thing you need to prove or disprove is if there's a difference between a $1200 Pinot noir and a $10 Pinot noir.

They're using the same fucking grape. Please explain how it magically turns into something different when the price is increased.

[Anonymous No.6665077]

>>6665068

>planting seeds is hard work that requires years of training

[Anonymous No.6665078]

>>6665071

raised in a different climate, raised in a different soil, fertilized differently, handled differently after picking.

and probably something else.

[Anonymous No.6665085]

>>6665077
>the soil does not impact the grape at all
>the exact sunlight does not impact the grape at all
>a good winemaker does not know how to blend grapes from different parts of the vineyard
>a good winemaker does not know when to properly release his wines

[Anonymous No.6665086]

>>6665077

>le fedora meme

Chug drain-o.

[Anonymous No.6665107]

>>6664988

Can a beginner tell the difference between an entry level violine and a Stradivari? Perhaps, perhaps not.

Will you ever spend 5000 dollars for a bottle of wine? If not, then your question is irrelevant, cause it will depend on your individual taste if the product is worth the price.

Wines that cost more usually have better and more complex taste than cheap ones, but that is just me buying regurlarly in a price range from 8 to 20€, and mostly red wines from spain and france.

Most of the stuff you find in supermarkets or chain grocery stores are from large manufacturers which have contracts to supply dozens, even hundreds of stores. From my experience, you cannot expect something sophisticated from these products, even the storing conditions are horrible, seeing bottles standing upright for weeks, months and probably even years.

If you want to find tasty wines in a price range, that is comfortable for you, there is no other option than to try, try and try. Perhaps you go from a wine that you found good and see what that particular region has to offer as well. Or you can pinpoint a variety of certain grapes and taste different regions. Prefer small wineyards over mass production, and just drink what you like. Anything else is unimportant.

>>6665040

>grapes are grapes

Pic related

[Anonymous No.6665109]

>>6664988

why even argue

you're not going to convince a wine snob he's wrong about wine

it's kind of implied in the name

op i rate ur intelligence a 0/10, nothing to do with ur premise on wine or anything, but because ur shit

[Anonymous No.6665124]

>>6665071

http://www.winemag.com/Web-2014/Pinot-Noir-Decoded/

http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2011/05/17/same-wine-bottle-four-different-prices/

http://www.wineanorak.com/whydoeswinecost.htm

There you go, you faggot, a whole list of factors that could justify why one bottle of Pinot Noir could be different from another bottle of Pinot Noir. Also supplementary reading about why some wines are more expensive than others. Be sure whoever takes care of you reads them nice and slow.

[Anonymous No.6665129]

>>6665077
>I have literally performed any farm related physical labor once in my life

[Anonymous No.6665135]

>>6665077

> believing grape seeds are being used to plant wineyards

[Anonymous No.6665137]

>>6665077
>seeds
>seeds
>seeds
>seeds
you have no idea what you are talking about

[Anonymous No.6665143]

>>6664988
Like any luxury product scarcity and prestige have as much with determining price as quality difference. Think of the difference between a Nissan and a Ferrari. One is no better than the other if you're just driving to the supermarket to pick up groceries. But if you take pleasure in driving the Ferrari smokes the Nissan. Hell, even a Volkswagen smokes the Nissan. But if you take a utilitarian view toward cars you could drive the Nissan without missing a thing.

Same goes for wine. If you enjoy Yellowtail you might not have any incentive to go down the rabbit hole of wine connoisseurship. In the end it's little more than an expensive hobby. While some of it is Emperor's New Clothes level shit it's not entirely bunk. For generations talented people have put lots of effort into developing methods, styles and pairings. There is something there.

Is it for everyone? No. Think of it like opera. People who are into opera love it, and will spend lots of money to enjoy it. But most folks don't get it. Wine is kind of the same thing. There's lots to learn, it gets expensive and not everyone is going to bother with it.
>Or is there truly subtle taste differences that my plebeian palate can't detect?
If you have the disposable income and leisure time to get into it there's a world of pleasure out there for you. If you don't just stick to the Yellowtail.

[Anonymous No.6665147]

>>6665143
pretty comfy reply

[Anonymous No.6665199]

FOR MOST PEOPLE the extra utility gained from spending more money on a bottle of wine tapers off at the $30-40 range. The fact is if you haven't taken the time to taste a lot of wine and develop your palate you probably won't be able to tell the difference between good cheaper wine and good expensive wine. In fact, the more expensive stuff might taste worse, as a good Roquefort would taste worse to a child than a slice of regular cheddar.

Many wines are over priced. The price you see does not reflect the methods used to make the wine or the quality/desirability of the flavor, but usually reflects scarcity or exclusivity of the product (which is why rich people like to collect wine).

That said, wine is not just "grapes go in, wine comes out." Like how one cheese tastes different than the other based on what cave it is aged in or what bacteria it is exposed to, wine tastes different based on soil, location, weather, and many other factors. It's an art and a science.

If you want to drink wine just for pleasure though, the sweet spot is probably on sale for $15-25. Go to a decent liquor store and just ask, they will usually know what to suggest.

>>>6665040

Have you ever tried a tomato from a farmers market vs. the grocery store? Or a blackberry from the forest compared to the ones in the store? They are very different in flavor. Not our fault you buy all your groceries at 7/11.

[Anonymous No.6665210]

>>6665055
Same species of grape, different growing conditions. Just like any food you grow, factors like temperature, rainfall, soil composition, duration and time of day for sun exposure, pruning etc will all impact the flavor. That's why bottles of the same type of wine from different places, or even the same bottling from year to year, can be quite different.

As far as OP's question goes, I think it's somewhere between the extremes of 'wine is wine and price is irrelevant' and 'price=quality'.

Most cheap wine is shit, unfortunately. There's the odd exception- generally wines that are out of style or relatively unknown- but those are exceptions. Outside that, however, there are real gems in even low to mid priced wine, especially if you avoid 'prestigious' styles. As you go up in price, the chance of a bottle you buy being great goes up- to a certain point. After that most of what you're paying for is the name or the prestige of the style/region, and while often this prestige is well deserved, it also often becomes something of a ripoff imo- the wine might be stellar but you could probably find wine just as good for a lot less money.

Or, if you think in graphs, in a graph with average quality on the y axis and cost on the x, you'd get half a hyperbola- increasing very sharply at low cost,and then flattening out more and more as cost goes up.

Tl;dr: putting in a litre effort and learning a bit, you can get some very good wine affordably. Putting in a little bit of extra money at the low end will probably improve your wine a fair bit; even putting in a lot of money at the high end won't change the quality that much, since you're mostly paying for the name.

[Anonymous No.6665249]

>>6664988
just try some wines till you find something you like, expensive wine tends to be more enjoyable but i needed to try a lot of wines before i could really appreciate the more costy stuff

[Anonymous No.6665263]

>>6664988

Simple truth: try wines. Try a bunch. Spend however much you want. You will like some and hate others. Whatever anyone else's opinion is about wines that you like is irrelevant because you enjoy drinking it.

[Anonymous No.6665294]

To someone who is just starting to drink wine or exclusively drinks shitty cheap wine there might not seem much if any difference, but it doesn't take much to develop your palate to the point where the difference is pretty obvious. Price is not always going to be a good measure of quality but on the whole yes, cheap wine will be shitty while higher quality wines will be more expensive. There's certainly a case of diminishing returns as you keep going up in price, the average person who enjoys a good quality wine has no real reason to drop huge chunks of cash on ultra premium pretige shit.

[Anonymous No.6665308]

>>6664988
>>6665263
>You will like some and hate others.
Have to agree with this sentiment. I've found the characteristics of wine more important than the price. For me, dry white wines are where it's at. As long as it's not totally bottom of the barrel, I know I'll most likely enjoy it. And my favorite grape is seyval-blanc, which is disliked for being a hybrid, grown in England and the Northeast US. It can be hard to find sometimes, but it's never expensive. I recently visited a friend in France, and was totally spoiled by the low price of wine there.

[Anonymous No.6665397]

>>6664988
>Can you guys redpill me on wine?

A lot of wineries dump huge bags of seasoned cork into their wine tanks so that the wine can soak up the flavor of the cork, and it simulates the kind of taste you get from letting it sit in an oak barrel for years.

Some wineries even use grape juice concentrate to supplement their juice production when crushing grapes.

Pricing wine is utterly arbitrary. After grape harvest and wine production they shove a bunch of people in a room to taste test the wine and price it based on how well the batch came out that year. They don't use any spectacular methods to produce their high priced wines. If it tastes particularly good one year they price it high, if it didn't come out so well they price it low.

[Anonymous No.6665416]

for six or seven euromonies you can get really good wines

[Anonymous No.6665492]

>>6664988
Go watch Somm on Netflix. The level of autism required in wine tasting will leave you in awe and make every anon pursue the hobby.

[Anonymous No.6665517]

>>6665397
>Pricing wine is utterly arbitrary. After grape harvest and wine production they shove a bunch of people in a room to taste test the wine and price it based on how well the batch came out that year. They don't use any spectacular methods to produce their high priced wines. If it tastes particularly good one year they price it high, if it didn't come out so well they price it low.

a connaisseur i see...

[Anonymous No.6665966]

>>6665059
+1 for Oz and James. I think it shows that price and quality are related. James starts out not believing any of it, but slowly comes round to the idea.

[Anonymous No.6666006]

I know people that buy the huge bottles of white wine for 8.99 and work at a nice restaurant that has a sommelier. There is certainly a difference between the 20$ bottles at publix or a wine store and a 7$ one in 7/11. The taste and certainly the hangover. I buy a bottle or 2 whenever I grocery shop about 15 to 20. If it's a nice dinner or special occasion I'd spend 50. Don't forget also that the wine in a restaurant setting is greatly marked up from wholesale, like 3 times. It's the sort of hobby that never ends and you'll always learn something new. I just like it because you get better by drinking it.

[Anonymous No.6666026]

>>6665034
lol best appropriation of that meme. FYI I actually used this meme in a synagogue (after explaining it was neo-nazi speak used by young people now) and they freaked out (am jew).
My understanding was only a limited type of red wine benefits from aging and that after a certain number of years its basically just for show. I think there's definitely a difference between 30 and 10 dollar wine but above 100 dollars wine mostly just is a showpiece. It definitely is smoother and this benefits really dry wines that don't have tons of residual sugars in them to cushion the harshness.

[Anonymous No.6666037]

>>6665023
Don't forget that it's not worth spending a lot on a bottle of wine you intend to cook with.

I'm not saying buy the cheaper-than-Coors shit, I'm saying that the everyday "not bad" wine is the type you should cook with.

Hell, even box wine can be acceptable (it's alarming how good it can actually be).

[Anonymous No.6666051]

You don't need a pill, you need to stop arguing wth strangers. Has 4chan taught you nothing?

[Anonymous No.6666095]

>>6664988
Cheapest wine is always the worst. Mid range can be really good to mediocre. The most expensive wines are made from excellent vintages (that's why the year is important) and aged slowly to break down harsh tasting components and improve subtler flavors. It's sure to be good, much better than the cheap wines, but whether it's better than a good mid range wine is up to preference. I've had cheap wines that taste pretty good, but it's not consistent at all. Better wines taste good every time.

[Anonymous No.6666109]

- cheap wine gives you a headache
- expensive wine tastes like $10 wine except you think it doesn't because you're a drone who associates high price tags with quality even though countless double blind tests prove that even MUH WINERY DEGREE faggots can't reliably tell which wine is $90000 and which is $9

[Anonymous No.6666165]

Guys this is all like weed and bho, weed is weed but theres a lot of different kinds, in cali you can buy all different types and the expensive shit is way better than the cheap shit, despite maybe getting you just as high.

[Anonymous No.6666191]

>>6665040
Even if we entertain the ludicrous notion that all grape varieties are the same, you still have massive variation and opportunities to fuck up in choosing the soil, the grape growing method, the ripeness, the climate, the grape mashing process, the yeast, the fermentation process, the barrel aging, the bottling, the cork material, the bottle storage and transport, the airing of the glass of wine, the food pairing and the drinking environment including service, if any.

All of which can improve, degrade or plain-and-clear ruin the wine. The winemaker's fuckups determine whether the wine has potential to be undrinkable goo, low-end, middle-ground or premium.

Everything after that is production capacity, marketing and prestige, and only then do you get a price. However, you will want to look past these as they don't affect the flavor. You want a high quality wine at a low price, and you can definitely find them. It doesn't cost a lot to make a good wine. Don't pay too much for your wine.

[Anonymous No.6666268]

Where do MDs fall into all of this

[Anonymous No.6666272]

the serving decanter and glass is actually important too. my wide mouth, thin, crystal wine glasses allow for better scents to come through. even cheap wines taste good in my 30 dollar glass. that being said, i love la crema, 20 dollar bottle, and cannot stnad that yellow tail shit. its like good and bad tequlia. the alcohol content tastes too strong in those cheap wines.

[Anonymous No.6666588]

>>6665199
>
Have you ever tried a tomato from a farmers market vs. the grocery store? Or a blackberry from the forest compared to the ones in the store? They are very different in flavor. Not our fault you buy all your groceries at 7/11.

Placebo bullshit, just like the whine.

You liberals will fall for anything.

[Anonymous No.6666741]

>>6666026
>using /pol/ memes in real life

[Anonymous No.6666859]

>>6664988

Consider the German Beer Purity Law. If all beer was just barley, water, and hops, what would make them different?

Brewing treatments. Ratios. Different brewers will make different flavour. The same applies to wines.

[Anonymous No.6666888]

>>6666859
The amount of hops and barely? The types of hops? The way in which the barley was malted? The yeast? The fermentation temperature? The stage at which the hops were added? The racking?

Your attempted analogy was very poorly thought out, and you should delete your post.

Sincerely,

/ck/

[Anonymous No.6666901]

>>6664988

There have been blind taste tests done that showed legitimate wine tasters couldn't tell the difference.

Wine snobs have been cucked hard by grape farmers.

[Anonymous No.6666904]

>>6666888
>>6666859
Actually I just reread your post and realized I am the idiot. However, it was a pretty nice set of trips and quads I got right there, so I'm going to leave it up.

[Anonymous No.6666959]

Some people don't even give a fuck about money so it's not even a critera.

They just want to try 'that wine'

[Anonymous No.6667089]

A lot of what makes cheap wine bad is that it is often cheaply made, compared to more expensive wine that will be made more carefully and have less sloppiness in the wine making process.

For example, wine should generally be flat, as in no bubbles unless it is sparkling wine. However, the fermentation process results in dissolved gasses which make it fizzy. These gasses are usually taken out using a variety of techniques/time, until the wine is flat. A cheap winery will often do a really half assed job of it and you will be able to see bubbles rising in your glass and taste the fizziness. This is just one way that cheap wine can be worse than more expensive wine.

There are a bunch of other ways to fuck it up, an the year matters based o what the weather was like. A late frost or something can really fuck over the crop that year since it may kill the fresh young buds, or there could be a bunch of hail, torrential rainstorms, etc. On the other hand, A certain region could have a beautiful spring, followed by the perfect summer, yielding extremely good grapes and thus good wine.

Different vineyards will also have a diiferent terrior, which is basically the character of that vineyard. It can be due to the soil compostition(is it slate, clay, sandy, whatever), rainfall, sunlight, temp., or any other physical factor. All these things influence the wine.

[Poorfag McGee No.6667116]

HOLD
THE
GOD
DAMN
PHONE
There are wines other than just grape wines?
NIGGER WOT?
>Banana wine
>Pineapple wine
>Meme durian wine
>MOTHER FUCKING POTATO WINE? (How have the Irish not overdosed? Alcohol and potatoes are two of their favorite things put together)

[Anonymous No.6667124]

>>6667116

i wanna try coconut wine.

but most third world hillbilly wines made out of random fruit are pretty gnarly.

[Anonymous No.6667141]

>>6667124
Is that expression "Where has this been all my life?" or "I immediately regret this decision."?

[Anonymous No.6667150]

>>6667141

probably the face of regret.

here's banana wine being made:

(5:25)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL3UHF5SlEU

"banana wine" sounds delicious, but apparently the real product is ghastly.

[Anonymous No.6667152]

hi /ck/ I'm gonna hijack this thread

I've only drank twice, and each time it was with high alcohol drinks. I've noticed that they have a very weird, overpowering Grain/Cereal/Etc, hard-to-describe taste that is entirely unpalatable to me.

Is this flavor endemic to high-alcohol drinks?
Am I just fucking nuts?

[Poorfag McGee No.6667225]

So a few questions
>What is happening during the aging process?
>Is there a half-life of sorts to the aging process? Meaning after perhaps 15 (just an example) years there's virtually no upside to aging anymore

[Anonymous No.6667571]

>>6667152

if you've drank a cereal based spirit then yeah it'll taste like cereal

drink something that's grape or fruit based like wines, brandys or ciders to see if it's a grain based thing or the flavor of ethanol you dislike

[Anonymous No.6668305]

>>6667225
Aging is the process where the barrel dissolves into the wine. If you keep wine in the barrel for a long time, the wine will taste like the barrel.

Good aging method keeps wine in the barrel just enough that the wine gets a touch of it, but not too long to make the wine taste only like the barrel.

It's a bit more complicated when the barrel aging process is combined with still-fermenting wine. Then the yeast is affected by the barrel's texture. Not all winemakers do this.

[Anonymous No.6668321]

>>6667152
>Is this flavor endemic to high-alcohol drinks?

Nope. There's a wide variety of different flavors in high-proof liquor, it depends entirely on which you buy.

Vodka is largely flavorless.
Whiskey has a variety of styles but they all tend to have some flavor of the grain from which they are made and then a smoky taste from aging in charred barrels. Some Scotch Whisky has a very strong smoky flavor from the peat used to roast the malt.
Gin tastes of the botanicals (aromatic plants) used to make it.
Rum will be somewhat sweet and sugary; a dark rum will taste like molasses.
Herbal liquor like Jaegermeister tastes like...well...herbs. Some say it takes like medicine.

The unique flavors of the various liquors will be more apparent the younger they are. Highly aged liquors tend to taste more like the barrel and less like their original components. I've had some 30-year aged rum that really didn't seem like "rum" at all--it was more like Whisky.

[Poorfag McGee No.6669482]

>>6668305
So then why do some wines age faster than others if the only thing happening is some of the barrel particles mixing into the wine?
I don't believe this.
What is the chemical process happening during fermentation, and why do others take longer?

[Anonymous No.6669495]

>>6668305
>>6667225
I'm sure he's referring to bottle aging because "15 years." As far as I know there's no complete scientific explanation for bottle aging, and enthusiasts are mainly concerned about the sensual qualities rather than the science anyway. As to how long a wine should be aged, that entirely depends on the category, quality, and your preference. Basically all of the prestigious appellations and wineries make wines to age, and aging ability is part of the price, aside from hype and scarcity. Not everyone prefers fully mature wines or agrees on the definition of maturity. Since wine loses fruit over time, perfectly mature to some might be dust and death to others. Therefore, if you prefer more fruit, you should drink earlier, but if you're looking for more complex tertiary qualities, keep holding. At the risk of sounding snobbish, I'd say that it doesn't really matter for your typical /ck/ poster because hardly anyone here is buying wines that age for decades, wines like popular classified Bordeaux, Premier and Grand Cru Burgundy, etc. You'd have to own a wine cellar, wine cabinet, or rent storage to age wines, which I doubt more than a few posters do.

[Anonymous No.6669572]

>>6669482
He's talking about barrel aging, which is part of the winemaking process that usually takes just over a year. Oak character is imparted into the wine during this step.

I think you're mixing up fermentation with bottle aging. Wine in bottles aren't fermenting because that's done in the winery with yeast and grape sugars (turning sugar into alcohol and CO2). If you mean why some wines age longer in bottles than others, that is a murky area without clear science. I think that it has more to do with the acidity and low yields. The common theme among wines known for aging is that they have a good balance of fruit, acidity, and alcohol. Modern styles with plush fruit, lots of oak and high alcohol are not known for aging well, and they tend to become overpoweringly alcoholic and oaky once the fruit sheds. The top wineries with wines that last the longest also keep their yields low, meaning more extract in the remaining grapes. The conventional wisdom is that wine ages on tannins, but Pinot Noir and white wines blow that theory away.

[Piracy !!1zjmpE5cmno No.6669596]

This is the worst wine thread i've ever seen

[Anonymous No.6669618]

>>6669495
>Since wine loses fruit over time, perfectly mature to some might be dust and death to others. Therefore, if you prefer more fruit, you should drink earlier, but if you're looking for more complex tertiary qualities, keep holding.
This is a great answer. Most wine sold is meant to be drunk young. Aging such wine in the bottle is a good way to destroy it. Fruity, low alcohol and low acid wines don't last that long. Many of last year's roses will be fading by autumn of this year.

Wine suitable for bottle aging has "structure", which means there's enough to it that letting the fruit fade a little over time will only improve it. Up to a point after which the wine will have faded too much. For example, most Bordeaux from the last decade are not considered ready to drink yet (with the exception of 2007). While many of the vintages before that are ready to drink now 1982 was such a good year that you could still hold it if you wanted to.

Of course most of us don't have proper cellars, so holding wine is not an option. And buying wine from a particularly good vintage someone else has been holding for decades is a very expensive proposition. So most of us are drinking wine meant to be drunk young. I drank plenty of 2009 and 2010 Bordeaux over the last few years, even though the best examples are nowhere near being considered ready to drink. I wasn't buying those wines. I was buying the cheap examples, but a rising tide lifts all boats, so when a region has a particularly good vintage even the cheap stuff is likely to be good. Folks more clever than me will sock away a few cases of less prestigious wines from great vintages, then a couple decades later it will have aged into something really special.

[Anonymous No.6669619]

Today OP was a gigantic faggot.

[Anonymous No.6669718]

>>6669596
Piracy, you should know by now that only you and Grenache Blanc have any idea what you are talking about when it comes to wine on /ck/.

[Anonymous No.6669728]

>>6669596
You haven't been lurking much lately. There was a thread earlier this week about whether pinot noir was a memewine.

[Anonymous No.6669786]

Quality of wines depends on a wide variety of factors. Starting with the grapes before they come off the vine, the flavor and aroma of wine is influenced by soil conditions, rainfall, humidity, sun exposure and pollination. The yeast used also affects the wine; winemakers will safeguard their yeasts to prevent competitors from developing similar strains, or cheapening the market for the region or winemaker by flooding it with clones of the vineyard's wines. Additionally, the yeast will be effected by how long it ferments, the temperature during fermentation and light exposure. Finally, the wine will be influenced by how it is stored prior to bottling. Many wine makers have contracts with scotch and bourbon distillers to buy their old barrels - of which, the longer the batch of whiskey was aged, the more valuable the barrel. The barrels themselves may see three different products, but only one use per product in the order of bourbon, scotch and finally wine. A barrel that aged bourbon for 8 years and then scotch for 10 would demand premium pricing. The longer the wine is aged in the barrel, the more it will effect the flavor and cause a smoothing effect of the wine its-self. Once the wine is bottled, it must be stored at a constant temperature, or else it will turn into cooking wine or expensive vinegar.

All these factors make year to year consistency almost impossible. A wine made using the same grapes, yeast and similar barrels will have subtle variances in flavor, texture and aroma year from year. You cannot replicate the exact flavor of a 1945 Australian Chiraz from a particular label unless you can replicate the same weather conditions, find the same strand of yeast, barrels with a similar history and do every exact step as the vintners who were there to make the batch you're trying to replicate.

1/2 - there's more to come, including the point I'm going to make.

[Anonymous No.6669802]

>>6669596
I see your SA and raise you a JJ.

How's SA Prum compared to JJ and F-Weins? I find F-Weins Prum far less sulfurous but also less structured, so it drinks better earlier to me. Last Bottle had a deal on 09 SA Prum UW Kabinett, but I didn't bite as I would've had to commit to six bottles.

[Anonymous No.6669829]

>>6669786

I would equate wine tasting to reading. Without training and experience, you'll tell whether you like a wine, whether a friend will like it, maybe even learn to taste the differences between the different types. That's what I'd call elementary school level shit. You're reading Huckleberry Fin for the story.

In order for someone to train up on wine tasting, they can learn the basics without breaking the bank. They'll be able to tell you good labels, what grapes were used, more than the guy stated above, but still unable to differentiate the difference between a wine made during a wet season or one during a normally dry season. That's when you're getting into high school. You're starting to understand the larger implications of Huckleberry Finn, how the larger issues of the day were effecting the book.

Now we're on to college. That's when the guy tasting the wine can tell you whether the wine actually is a 1945 Australian chiraz because of the effects caused by weather and the effects caused by the barrels used. Because the Australians couldn't get barrels from the distillers in the US & Europe, meaning they had to scrounge for previously discarded barrels, which had been used for aging beer instead, lending a unique flavor to that particular year and origin of wine. In other words, reading Huckleberry Finn and understanding the metaphorical aspects.

My point - There actually are differences between $5000 and $20 bottles of wine, that doesn't mean they're particularly bad either. The 1945 Australian chiraz I've referred to? Tastes like shit. Australia had too little rainfall that summer and too much humidity. It's an expensive bottle because of the scarcity and the fact that there is literally no way to replicate it. As for a $20 bottle of 2006 Penfolds, It was particularly good and I'd happily drink it again.

Call out the self proclaimed wine snob. Older doesn't always mean better.

2/2

[Anonymous No.6669839]

>the meme that alcohol tastes good
its literally poison. it functions in your body as a poison that is filtered out, it burns your mouth and larynx and hurts your organs. I'm not some straight edge faggot but I don't pretend to like the taste of booze

[Anonymous No.6669842]

>>6669829
Additionally - most self proclaimed wine snobs are the equivalent of a kindergartener having read Cat in the Hat and telling a kid who can't read that he's read Hemingway.

Read up on a particularly good wine, then read up as to why it's a good wine. Start with the vintner, then look at the weather conditions for the winery regarding the year being recommended. Research how the flavor, texture and aroma were affected by the different factors, then see if you can understand what the reviewer was talking about.

[Anonymous No.6669849]

>>6669786
>>6669829
>>6669842
You put a lot of feeling into that and it's a bunch of self-indulgant tl;dr, so here is your reply before you get too lonely. Here is your attention.

[Anonymous No.6669859]

>>6669839

>>6663535
You're posting in the wrong thread if you think wine tastes like booze.

[Anonymous No.6669862]

>mfw I make 'wine' in 2 liter bottles that is just sugar/water/yeast, I put a whole packet of quick rise baker's yeast in each bottle and leave them in the sun in my backyard in summer to stimulate the yeast
I also usually drink it before secondary fermentation has even begun and a ton of yeast is still suspended in it.

[Anonymous No.6669866]

oh and before memers start in on yeast being a fungus and liking darkness, I know that, I put a cardboard box over the bottles

[Anonymous No.6669883]

>>6669849
OP asked a question - I provided an answer. I don't tell you how to suck dick, so don't tell me what I'm doing.

[Anonymous No.6670011]

>>6665210

This, but also age. the fruit on a young plant will have a different flavour to the fruit on an older plant. different acidity/sweetness. This happens on a lot of fruits, not only grapes. There are wine makers out there who won't take grapes off a vine under a certain age. A lot of wine making sounds like wank to me, but slightly different flavours due to environment and age are a fact.

[Anonymous No.6670018]

there is no difference

you can delete your thread now

[Anonymous No.6670035]

>>6669862
this triggered me so hard

[Anonymous No.6670383]

>>6667116
Yes. These wines are also usually better tasting than grape wine.

[Anonymous No.6670520]

>>6664988
Do him and you a favor, OP. Obtain an empty bottle of expensive wine, and fill it full with one of two $10 bottles of wine. Cover everything but the logo with tape on one, and the entire bottle on the other.

Serve him both, and when he says the good one is clearly better, reveal that it's the same wine.