/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.6161373]

When will this fucking fad diet die?!?!?

[Anonymous No.6161375]

When other retarded fads like Paleo diets die.

[Anonymous No.6161378]

>>6161375
But to add to this, when people quit taking diet/nutritional advice from fitizens it will also die. Being in a nutrition/dietetic program, i've heard some of the most retarded shit from the bodybuilding community and not necessarily /fit/ either. There's always a group of fucking autistics who think that all carbs are bad, this is why there's retarded fad diets like the Ketogenic Diet. I'm not even going to hate the Paleo Diet anymore, at least they still try to bring in a good amount of variety into it's diet according to what cavemen ate.

[Anonymous No.6161391]

I've tried this diet before and it actually works, so even though it may be a fad, it is something that works and you see results pretty fucking quickly. I doubt it will die until people stop dropping dead from their arteries being clogged from all the bacon grease.

[Anonymous No.6161431]

>>6161373
When you stop weighing 300 pounds and only need to maintain your weight.

[Anonymous No.6161434]

>>6161378
Carbs are pretty shitty. The only carbs I eat on a regular basis come from fruits and vegetables.

Sure, I'll enjoy bread once in a while or some cake or whatever, but people should be trying to limit refined carb intake as much as possible.

[Anonymous No.6161446]

>>6161373

[Anonymous No.6161467]

>>6161434

Carbs are pretty great actually. Just, like you said, people should be trying to limit refined carb intake as much as possible. Refined carbs should be replaced with unrefined carbs, not with cheese and pork like the keto style diets say

[Anonymous No.6161500]

>>6161434
Well yes, refined carbs are bad. But most bodybuilders don't understand refined carbs from ALL carbs is what I'm saying. There's a difference from avoiding an oreo cookie and trying to make your own pizza crust from cauliflower. If people are actually avoiding whole grain/wheat bread because it has carbs, those people should just jump off a bridge. Shitty misinformation like that is why half of these fitness enthusiasts are on retarded fad diets like this. If you really want to bulk up and don't give a shit how, just fucking eat mcdonalds everyday.

[Anonymous No.6161669]

>>6161500
CARBS BAD PROTEIN GOOD! ARRRRGGGHHHHHHH ME LIFT THINGS

[Anonymous No.6161702]

>>6161373
>>6161375
>>6161378
>>6161446
>>6161467
>>6161500
>>6161669
Fatties don't understand how body fat is formed and that all carbs outside of fiber are bad.
>>6161391
>>6161431
These guys know whats up. It's not a fad diet, it's the natural way humans were meant to eat pre agricultural revolution, roughly 12,000 years ago, and humans have been around roughly 200,000 years. This isn't some "Fad", the diet works, eat 5% or less carbs, 20% protein, 75% fat, get ripped life a mother fucker.

[Anonymous No.6161713]

>>6161702

Aren't you that guy who got his ketogenic ass handed to him in another thread the other day?

[Anonymous No.6161717]

>>6161373
>showing a ripped man to advertise a diet that by design causes the body to burn lean muscle tissue for energy

[Anonymous No.6161721]

>>6161713

Ketobro got worked so hard that they archived the thread

boards.4chan.org/ck/thread/6154229

[Anonymous No.6161724]

>>6161373
You see, op, people want to be told to eat unhealthy foods, foods that they already like so there will always be some form of a atkins/keto/paleo diet floating around.

[Anonymous No.6161735]

>>6161713
>>6161721
Wtf, I smashed that argument.
Since then I went from 157 6'0" hungry skeletal to 153 hungry skeletal. Obviously it's working. Going to cut to 145 before bulk. Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.6161742]

>>6161735
>took a shit
>suddenly weigh less
>IT MUST BE THE DIET

[Anonymous No.6161752]

>>6161742
Son, it's not a I took a 4lb shit type of thing. I consecutively drop legitamently 1/2 to 1lb a day. My shits are roughly 1/2-3/4 a lb.
The diety works. 4 lbs over 4 days is nearly unheard of aside from starving yourself.

[Anonymous No.6161764]

>>6161735

>Wtf, I smashed that argument.

If this is the thread in question >>6161721 you got annihilated

Maybe the problem is that you think if you lose weight that you've found the ultimate diet, not realising that other people lost weight doing completely opposite things. While you're doing keto, the entire continent of Asia is eating rice while being known for their thinness

[Anonymous No.6161774]

>>6161764
How did I get annihilated. In that thread I clearly showed why carbs cause body fat, the fact that humans aren't meant to consume NEARLY as much as the average person does now, and the I've also proven that the diet works.
It's so hilarious that this is even being disputed right now. Every point someone brought up, I addressed and smashed.
I feel like an archaeologist arguing against a Christian who thinks the world is 6,000 years old right now. We're given the same facts, there should be one conclusion.

[Anonymous No.6161780]

>>6161774

What posts specifically do you think you proved anything with? The only links to any scientific anything in that thread were posted by the people you argued with. This science textbook also got posted, which has an article about body fat and carbohydrates

http://books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&pg=PA263

Which basically says "your body can barely make body fat out of carbs, most fat on your body is from dietary fat." What was your great argument that humans shouldn't be eating carbs?

[Anonymous No.6161789]

>>6161721

>Can we please get back to topic of what ketogenic foods and recipes people recommend?

you can smell the tears in his eyes

[Anonymous No.6161791]

>>6161702
>it's the natural way humans were meant to eat pre agricultural revolution, roughly 12,000 years ago, and humans have been around roughly 200,000 years.

Hon, before agriculture humans ate just as much carbs in the forms of fruits, berries, vegetables. Protein and fat was a very, very small part of a hunter gatherer life.

[Anonymous No.6161805]

>>6161780
>>6161789
>>6161791
All of it. People had concerns with the diet.
>What the fuck, you need carbs!
No you don't, it's the one source of calories you don't need.
>B-But, you need protein!
20% of the diet is nothing but protein
Immediately after that
>YOU'RE GETTING TOO MUCH PROTEIN!
Nah, 75% of the diet is fat. Fat can be broken down into a fuck ton of different compounds because of how large some of the molecules are.
>Pfft, whatever, anything that restricts the diet that much can't be healthy!
Wow, I just don't eat starchy foods like potatos or sugar filled ones like bread. Everything else is on the table, lmfao.
Pretty much the only reason I can actually see someone even remotely disagreeing with my diet is the fact that they love sugary foods too much and are afraid to give them up.
Never in my life have I seen such a poor attempt at trying to get someone to give up a diet. In 8-10 days I'll be my goal weight of 145lbs and start my bulk.
Lmao, easiest arguments ever.

[Anonymous No.6161814]

>>6161791

Protein and cooking meat are thought to be one of the major reasons that our cognitive abilities increased to what they are today.

Protein is the most calorie efficient nutrient in terms of satiability. It is low calorie, and very filling, and has micronutrients and amino acids.

Carbs are least filling, and most calorie dense. Fat is above carbs, and below protein.

When losing weight, its all about calories in, and calories out. No if you sat down with 2k worth of calories in venison, it would be very very hard to eat in a day. 2k calories in chips you can eat in 25 minutes.

Its all about keeping the person full, while falling below their metabolic needs.

[Anonymous No.6161819]

>>6161805

>All of it

Okay, but where specifically do you think you really got them? Like I said, the only people who posted links to scientific articles of any kind were the guys arguing against what you said. It's easy to feel like you "smashed" someone's argument when all you have to do to counter someone's science-based comment is ignore what they said and make something up

[Anonymous No.6161822]

>>6161814

>No if you sat down with 2k worth of calories in venison, it would be very very hard to eat in a day. 2k calories in chips you can eat in 25 minutes.

What about 2k calories worth of beans?

[Anonymous No.6161823]

>>6161814
>Its all about keeping the person full

Full is irrelevant because willpower.

[Anonymous No.6161826]

>>6161805
>I'll be my goal weight of 145lbs
Whatever, skeletor. You're getting BTFO by people every time you try to do this.

[Anonymous No.6161827]

>>6161814

>Carbs are most calorie dense

now that's just plain incorrect. carbs have 4 calories per gram, fat has 9

>2k calories in chips you can eat in 25 minutes.

chips are technically more fat calories than they are carb calories. 2k worth of plain potatoes is hard to eat

[Anonymous No.6161842]

>>6161819
Like I said, there were 0 points brought up that I couldn't immediately answer.
If your argument is so poor you have to sway the direction of whether or not people consumed more berries and wheat than meat instead of what's healthier, which is completely irrelevant (but even that I smashed that shit), then you've already lost.
They tried to sway the talk from ketogenic recipes to ketogenic diets aren't healthy to you shouldn't be ketogenic because I assume humans ate more wheat and fruit than animals (which is complete B.S., you're not going to forage 500 lbs of fruit, use your brain, one kill is 500 lbs of meat)
>>6161822
>>6161823
Just wanna say that he's not me. There's also a reason why I lost weight and it's not solely because of the ketogenic diet. I'm the faggot using reaction images.
Willpower is big, and all it takes a small caloric deficit to make a big difference.
>>6161826
Yeah I already said skeletor, knew that shit is hilarious. I'll be pretty skinny and I'm going to love it. Although it's going to only be a stepping stone for my goal body of 190lbs of hulking muscle 6'0"
It's not like I'm going to bulk and cut at the same time. Simplify and do one at a time.

[Anonymous No.6161860]

>>6161842

>Like I said, there were 0 points brought up that I couldn't immediately answer.

But like I said, making up an answer isn't a proper response to a comment that's backed by science.

Hell, let me throw my hat into the ring and counter your claim that early humans had a ketogenic diet

http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Eaton%20Paleo%20Nutri%20Review%20EJCN.pdf

>The typical carbohydrate intake of ancestral humans was similar in magnitude, 45-50% of daily energy, to that in current affluent nations
>their overall fat intake is projected at 20-25% of calories

And as for "what's healthier," they posted quotes from the World Health Organization and the World Cancer Research Fund saying to eat mainly plant foods, limit fat intake, and eat plenty of carbohydrates from whole grains, legumes, and fruits

So where did you do all this "smashing"?

[Anonymous No.6161930]

>>6161860
There you go trying to sway the argument to a different topic again.
Fundamentally your argument is weak as fuck and you know it, so you try to go,Y-YES YOU NEED CARBS HUUUUUUUR ,BECAUSE ERR ERR THE ANCESTORS REQUIRED THEM!
You can link the studies all you want, of course that % will change from where you live, the tropics will of course have nearly all their sources come from fruits and other wild plants, while someone in a tundra is going to live off of nearly only animals.
>Your argument is that you need carbohydrates
Hmm let's check to see if that's true faggot
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfCmJvCe0UY
NOPE, 5 years on SOLELY meat (of course I wouldn't do that), but if your argument is that you NEED carbohydrates, you DON'T. This nigger is fit on top of everything.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-carbohydrate_diet
Any and ALL FUCKING SUGAR YOU NEED is acquired through gluconeogenesis.
> The remaining 5% still runs on glucose which is adequately supplied by converting dietary protein via gluconeogenesis or by converting glycerol from the breakdown of fat.
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[Anonymous No.6161953]

>>6161930

>You can link the studies all you want

My friend, your emotions can't make the argument for you. You have to properly address the criticism or you lose the argument. I know it feels good to be a winner, but you have to earn the victory. If people have shown you to be wrong, the best option is to change your beliefs to reflect what is true, not go into denial.

[Anonymous No.6161965]

are all keto dieters fat 14 year olds or just this guy?

[Anonymous No.6162015]

>>6161953
My friend, your emotions can't make the argument for you.
Ignoring the post this hard
>1: The studies about WHAT people ate is bullshit. I told you it varies from place to place, in Canada Inuits would've eaten nearly 100% fish and whale. The reverse can be said for your study.
>2: You're basically trying to say you need carbohydrates when infact out of the 3 caloric sources, that is the ONE YOU DON'T NEED.
>3: Anything that carbohydrates could provide, fat can be broken down into. Any of the essential sugars, gluconeogenesis.
You can't honestly think you're winning or that I'm using any emotions.
I'm stomping the FUCK out of your argument. I've even provide REAL proof, not just the fact that fat can be broken down into sugars, but SHOWN YOU what happens when you eat nothing but meat, and guess what, the guy was pretty muscular and lean. Healthy as a fiddle.

[Anonymous No.6162021]

I fucking hate my kidneys so I eat keto and take calcium supplements. The more stones the better.

[Anonymous No.6162032]

>>6161373
When proponents of fad diets die of malnutrition.

[Anonymous No.6162037]

>>6161373
it's not a fad, though people voluntarily doing this diet call it keto, it's actually a diet also prescribed to patients with type 2 diabetes to lose weight and help keep their bodies in check
it's also called the Atkins diet

[Anonymous No.6162048]

Keto is not a fad diet, the principle of it lies in basic nutrition that 95% of the populace don't understand, but think they do.
It's good, it works, but it's not sustainable.

[Anonymous No.6162050]

>>6162015

>1: The studies about WHAT people ate is bullshit. I told you it varies from place to place, in Canada Inuits would've eaten nearly 100% fish and whale

The inuit aren't your supposed ancestors, which is what you're trying to argue

>2: You're basically trying to say you need carbohydrates

You implied that to make things easier. More accurate would be that your body can make glucose in emergency situations like starvation (which keto is a form of), but the point is that foods associated with carbohydrate are considered the most healthful. Unsurprisingly, many of the foods keto is based on are known to contribute to various degenerative diseases.

>3: Anything that carbohydrates could provide, fat can be broken down into

I personally don't have the education to determine if that's right or not, but for your benefit I'll assume it's true. If we look at the bigger picture, and-- extrapolating on a post from the other thread, we can see that carbohydrates are your body's primarily fuel. Does it sound smart to purposely put yourself in a state of emergency and stress simply because your body has evolved an ability to work around the loss of its preferred energy when it needs to?

As for your youtube link to a guy who eats nothing but meat, I would hardly call that scientific insight, and you've also dismissed someone else's post for saying they eat carbs and aren't fat on the grounds that he's just one person. In a way, this approach is a bit like me pointing to a guy with a cigarette and saying "see, he's still alive, so cigarettes aren't bad for you." It doesn't really tell us anything

But okay, you're stomping on everyone. You're like Godzilla, walking around, stomping shit up, and anything you believe is true without scientific evidence because you're simply the best

[Anonymous No.6162065]

>>6161814
>Protein and cooking meat are thought to be one of the major reasons that our cognitive abilities increased to what they are today.
Protein yes, cooking meat not so much. Meat was always a very rare source of food. The primitive weapons were for protection more than hunting. And the tools were made after we had significant cognitive abilities. Humans were never great hunters, I mean look at us. Agriculture is the single biggest reason we were able to get out of the food chain. That's the reason society developed. Most agrarian societies ate very little meat though milk was abundant in a fair few societies.

By the way do you know how humans hunted? We weren't the fastest of course. We actually used to run our prey ragged. Stamina, not strength or speed was our strong suit. So while a deer could outrun us over a few hundred yards we could maintain a fairly fast pace for miles. It is absolutely impossible to be a marathon runner without a carb heavy diet. Carbs have always been the main source of calories for us. Fat and animal protein have always been treats.

[Anonymous No.6162068]

>>6162050

Also worth mentioning that even the inuit don't live in a state of ketosis. They've actually adapted larger livers in order to convert more protein to glucose so that they can avoid ketosis. No animal naturally lives in a constant state of ketosis.

[Anonymous No.6162082]

>>6162068

[Anonymous No.6162097]

>>6162050
Did you just assume I'm white, Son check the privilege :^)
>You implied that to make things easier. More accurate would be that your body can make glucose in emergency situations like starvation (which keto is a form of), but the point is that foods associated with carbohydrate are considered the most healthful. Unsurprisingly, many of the foods keto is based on are known to contribute to various degenerative diseases.
Nah son, the body sees no glycogen, it makes it. You don't need to be on the verge of starving to death to get sugar, your body isn't retarded.
>I personally don't have the education to determine if that's right or not, but for your benefit I'll assume it's true.
Good, don't dispute what you can't refute.
>If we look at the bigger picture, and-- extrapolating on a post from the other thread, we can see that carbohydrates are your body's primarily fuel.
Obviously, we had the agricultural revolution for a reason, it's more convenient to grow food and sit around then to chase you food.
Convenient =/= Need
>Does it sound smart to purposely put yourself in a state of emergency and stress simply because your body has evolved an ability to work around the loss of its preferred energy when it needs to?
That loaded question though.
You make it seem like this is a state of emergency, it's not. Your body isn't retarded, it'll make sugars at an optimal rate from fat, simple as that.
>As for your youtube link to a guy who eats nothing but meat, I would hardly call that scientific insight
I gave you the wiki link showing you WHY you can live, and to show it's not just me assuming like you faggot, that people can and DO live off of only meat.
Fuck I bet if you went to Canada or northern Norwegia, there are probably people there who have never eaten a carbohydrate, not by choice, but by their life circumstances. If someone can go their whole life like this, and be healthy AF, your argument falls apart, which it.
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[Anonymous No.6162104]

>>6162068
Having a bigger liver and ketosis have nothing to do with each other. They probably do have bigger livers, but the reason WHY you go into ketosis is because of a lack of carbohydrates.
They could have a liver the size of the empire state building, if they're living solely on fish and whale, they recieve 0 carbohydrates and thus can't leave ketosis.
This is probably the most retarded argument I've seen in the past month or so.

[Anonymous No.6162121]

>>6161752
You do realize that you lose weight from the lack of carbs, right? If you just started it, of course you're going to drop it fast. It's mainly water weight.

[Anonymous No.6162130]

When it stops working

[Anonymous No.6162132]

>>6162104

>the reason WHY you go into ketosis is because of a lack of carbohydrates.

that's what the whole topic of gluconeogensis has been

https://books.google.com/books?id=qEfFafw7YDEC&pg=PA114

>The hepatic enlargment may have reflected increased gluconeogenesis from protein because of the relative deficiency of dietary carbohydrate in the traditional Eskimo diet

books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&pg=PA264

>Eskimos, for example, sometimes live almost entirely on fat but do not develop ketosis

[Anonymous No.6162139]

>>6162121
>It's mainly water weight
I've been hearing this since I started my weight loss at 195. Fuck if I lost 42lbs of water, I would be dryer than sand.

[Anonymous No.6162149]

>>6161373
it's not a fad shitstain, it's science

[Anonymous No.6162156]

>>6162132
>The hepatic enlargment may have reflected increased gluconeogenesis from protein because of the relative deficiency of dietary carbohydrate in the traditional Eskimo diet
That's literally ketosis, they live off of fat, their body breaks it down into the sugars it needs.
Yes it's breaking it down. Wtf do you think my body is doing?
This is the whole point of ketosis. I literally have no idea what you're doing besides agreeing with me. Even in my last 2 comments I acknowledged and told you why it's ketosis.
This is what ketosis does, it breaks up fat, why do you think you lose fat so quickly?
I feel like a broken record.
It's almost like you're trying to defeat me by telling me why it works.
Nah man, water is bad for you, it hydrates you by balancing the water content inside each cell and its surrounding!
All you did was explain ketosis.
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[Anonymous No.6162162]

>>6162139
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. I thought you just started.

Either way, losing weight is the product of a calorie deficit. Have fun consuming coconut oil while I enjoy food.

[Anonymous No.6162166]

>>6162097

Maybe the misunderstanding is that you think I'm arguing that you will immediately die if you don't consume adequate carbohydrate, which isn't what I mean to say. I've been talking about ketosis' role as a back-up system for when your body doesn't have its preferred fuel, which has nothing to do with agriculture, it's just how the body works. Ketosis exists in other animals as well during times of hardship, sickness, and starvation, and it goes away when they're able to return to their main form of sustenance.

While an unmoderated wikipedia article written by people who follow a keto diet is getting closer to scientific support, it doesn't help you out very much. It's a bit funny too that most of the references used in that article aren't to back up the claims that keto is okay, but actually link to criticism of the diet

[Anonymous No.6162175]

>>6162162
I don't even own coconut oil....
I mainly eat low carb peanut butter, beef, tuna, brocolli, peas, and green beans. I'll vary it up with other things, but I'm poor as fuck, so I can't make other more expensive ketogenic foods fly out my ass.

[Anonymous No.6162185]

>>6162156

>To dispose of excess ketone bodies, your kidneys excrete them and your lungs exhale them. If this removal process cannot keep up with the production process, ketone bodies accumulate in the blood-- a condition called ketosis
>a lack of available carbohydrate accelerates ketone body production

Ketosis has to do with ketone bodies. If they've adapted to produce more glucose so that ketosis doesn't occur, they aren't living in a ketogenic state even if you would be if you followed the same diet.

[Anonymous No.6162200]

>>6162166
>I've been talking about ketosis' role as a back-up system for when your body doesn't have its preferred fuel, which has nothing to do with agriculture, it's just how the body works
Yes, but you make it seem like the carbohydrates your body devours is because it's healthier with the word "want" you're using.
The body eats carbohydrates first, because if it didn't you would go into diabetic shock from all the sugar in your blood and die.
The body uses ketosis second because fat can be stored, unlike carbohydrates, which need to be used immediately or be stored as fat for later. Carbohydrates in their immediate form are devoured by a matter of not wanting to go into diabetic shock, not because it feels it's healthier.
>While an unmoderated wikipedia article written by people who follow a keto diet is getting closer to scientific support,
You know, I've seen this argument before, and I tried to go to a relatively unvisited wiki page and edit it.
I editted the page and it worked! 5 minutes later a mod changed it back, with a warning message to stop doing what I was doing. Sure you can change it, but it won't last more than 5 minutes.
The information is accurate. They're not going to let you just put incorrect shit on there unless it's something way above an average mod's head to where they can't dispute it on the basis that they're not qualified enough to know.
Your body needs 0 carbs, fats can be broken down, end of story. It works for that kentucky guy that's ripped, it works for the hundreds of thousands of Inuits, it works for those weirdo Northern Norwegians, and it'll work you too.
Face it faggot, I've won. Everyone of your arguments has been destroyed, just like last thread.
The only reason you're even defending carbohydrates is probably because by me not eating them, I'm somehow insulting everyone who eats them. That's the only feasible reason I can think of someone being this defensive of the most useless calorie.

[Anonymous No.6162221]

>>6162185
>To dispose of excess sugar, your kidneys excrete insulin. If this removal process cannot keep up with the production process, sugar will accumulate in the blood -- a condition called diabetes.
>a lack of carbohydrates accelerates ketone body production to send you into weight loss and lean gains :^)
If you honestly think ketosis will kill the average person, you're retarded. There's a reason why Inuits can survive on the diet. The liver size is larger, sure, but earlier you were straight up lying.
Here's what you said
>Also worth mentioning that even the inuit don't live in a state of ketosis. They've actually adapted larger livers in order to convert more protein to glucose so that they can avoid ketosis.
Now you're admitting after I pulled your head out your ass for you that they're in ketosis.
I'm sure larger livers help diabetics too.
The only way you can die is through ketoacidosis
>Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a complication of diabetes that can occur if the body starts to run out of insulin (the hormone that regulates blood sugar)
Only diabetics will die from this diet, not a lean male such as myself.
Stay mad, the facts agree with me.

[Anonymous No.6162250]

>>6162200

>The body eats carbohydrates first, because if it didn't you would go into diabetic shock from all the sugar in your blood and die.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&pg=PA261

>Blood glucose is the primary source of energy for your brain, central nervous system, and red blood cells
>Acetyl CoA from beta-oxidation can enter the citric acid cycle only when fat and carbohydrate breakdown are synchronized. Without avilable oxaloacetate, acetyl CoA cannot start the citric acid cycle. Conditions such as starvation and very-low-carbohydrate diets can deplete oxaloacetate, blocking acetyl CoA from entry

>The body uses ketosis second because fat can be stored, unlike carbohydrates, which need to be used immediately or be stored as fat for later

Carbohydrates can't be stored, but are stored as fat later? You mean carbs can't be stored in their carbohydrate form?

http://books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&pg=PA262#v=onepage&q&f=false

>Our bodies store glucose as glyocgen in the liver and muscles. Liver glycogen serves as glucose reserve for the blood, and muscle glycogen supplies glucose to exercising muscle tissue.

I'm not even saying this to be insulting, but I think it would help you out to read through that textbook, atleast that chapter of it

[Anonymous No.6162262]

>>6162221

>Now you're admitting after I pulled your head out your ass for you that they're in ketosis.

What even hinted at that? I explained what ketosis actually was because you were implying it was just eating less carbs, when it's actually a metabolic state that we can define physiologically. Inuit have adapted to avoid going into ketosis. Ignoring that there's no reason to think they as a group were healthy anyway, if your assertion is that the inuit were a model of ketogenic diets, and now you've learned that they weren't actually in a state of ketosis, what does that do to your argument? Especially combined with learning that the early humans we evolved from were also far from ketotic.

[Anonymous No.6162374]

>>6162250
>Blood glucose is the primary source of energy for your brain, central nervous system, and red blood cells
Because people mainly eat carbohydrates....because not many people eat high fat content diets, lol, American logic. DOLLARS THE MAIN CURRENCY USED BY AMERICANS!....because no one wants to count out pennies.
>Acetyl CoA from beta-oxidation can enter the citric acid cycle only when fat and carbohydrate breakdown are synchronized. Without avilable oxaloacetate, acetyl CoA cannot start the citric acid cycle. Conditions such as starvation and very-low-carbohydrate diets can deplete oxaloacetate, blocking acetyl CoA from entry
> Can enter, such as, can... That's very unsure language anon.
This is almost certainly because there are certain conditions that trigger this. May I refer you to my Inuit, redneck, and Norwegian friends that are doing just fine and live long lives :^)
I bet this only affects diabetics or some shit.
>You mean carbs can't be stored in their carbohydrate form?
Duh anon :^) Could you not piece that together? Do I have to spell it out for baby? :^)
>Our bodies store glucose as glyocgen in the liver and muscles. Liver glycogen serves as glucose reserve for the blood, and muscle glycogen supplies glucose to exercising muscle tissue.
glycogen....glucose....glycogen
...
...
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-carbohydrate_diet
> The remaining 5% still runs on glucose which is adequately supplied by converting dietary protein via gluconeogenesis or by converting glycerol from the breakdown of fat.
Are you just going to keep repeating yourself and losing? I already addressed sugar. Pic related, it was me reading this for the second time.

[Anonymous No.6162400]

>>6161373

>fad diet

It totally works though, I couldn't drop any weight and tried this for 2 weeks, lost 10+ pounds. Then I binged on sweets and gained 5. Such is life. But I was already slim anyway, so w/e.

[Anonymous No.6162410]

>tfw I need to go on a low glycemic index diet

;_;

[Anonymous No.6162417]

>>6162374

>Because people mainly eat carbohydrates

Or, as the medical textbook points out, because that's how your body works. Make up your own explanations for it if you need to, but I'm showing you what science says

> The remaining 5% still runs on glucose which is adequately supplied by converting dietary protein via gluconeogenesis or by converting glycerol from the breakdown of fat.

I don't see why that was a response to my mention of the fact that your body can store glucose for later use. I should also point out that your quote from the wikipedia article, while not addressing glycogen to begin with, doesn't have a citation. In fact, that whole beginning paragraph is unreferenced.

This thread is looking a lot like the other one, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.6162431]

U do keto diet? get that trashbag outa here
Why do these internet people only always ever talk about weight loss, huh
what u retarded?
u need to think about health first. if u cant manage weight with whatever shitfuck diet you choose.
thats head problem. in your brain.
i sewar to god
wow

[Anonymous No.6162454]

>>6162417
Or as I've already pointed out, the body goes for carbs first, seen here.>>6162200
>The body eats carbohydrates first, because if it didn't you would go into diabetic shock from all the sugar in your blood and die.
Riggity rekt.
>I don't see why that was a response to my mention of the fact that your body can store glucose for later use. I should also point out that your quote from the wikipedia article, while not addressing glycogen to begin with, doesn't have a citation. In fact, that whole beginning paragraph is unreferenced.
Yes anon, that wikipedia page is completely fabricated and not managed by mods who run this :^). I'm sure there's never been an expert to come to that page and see if anything was objectively wrong :^)
How hard can one person get stomped? I guess this thread will answer that question, won't it faggot?

[Anonymous No.6162467]

>this whole thread

so basically keto is for retards

[Anonymous No.6162488]

>this whole thread

so basically there's nothing objectively wrong with keto

[Anonymous No.6162513]

Archive this thread. This and the other thread will be posted every time someone tries to argue for keto.

[Anonymous No.6162523]

>>6162513
Archive this thread. This and the other thread will be posted every time someone tries to argue for keto.
>against keto
FTFY
Damn niggers get the smack down every time.

[Anonymous No.6162548]

>>6161373
Lost 40 lbs on it. Though I had less far and more plant. I even cheated like a mofo, I drank Scotch when I ate my chicken wings.

[Anonymous No.6162579]

>>6162548
Good job m8, I lost 30 lbs since June, then I started to plateu and went on keto. Now I'm down 12 more lbs.

[Anonymous No.6162971]

>>6162579
I'm a lot less lazy on keto, I don't get it

[Anonymous No.6162977]

>>6162037
This. My mom had to go on this diet because of her beetus.

[Anonymous No.6163016]

>>6161702
>>6161735
>>6161752
>>6161764
>>6161805
>>6161842
>>6161930
>>6162015

>ketofag gets btfo
>resorts to posting le maymays to cover up his asspain

I love it. You're like those fags on /fit/ that think jelqing is legitimate.

[Anonymous No.6163092]

>>6163016
Do you think someone is going to get fat on keto? I just came from a /fit/ thread where this was linked. Why are you so mad?

[Anonymous No.6163165]

>>6163092
Idk man, some people are just butthurt.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP6DtqmZ3Mw&feature=youtu.be
The final REKTening.

[Anonymous No.6163205]

A keto diet sacrifices long term health by altering cell metabolism.

A keto diet will force your body to use protein and fat for fuel. This is usually an adaptive response our body uses when glucose is insufficient and increases catabolic hormones.

Cortisol released will raise blood sugar (when you don’t feed the cells sugar), but at the expense of your lean tissue – breaking muscles, bones and glands down to find glucose to maintain life. The mere presence of ketone bodies from a keto diet is known to exacerbate insulin resistance.

Ketones are produced as a result of metabolic stress. If your liver is extremely good, it can store enough glycogen for a day, but chronic, frequent, stress (present in a keto diet) will damage your liver’s ability to store glycogen.

Cells prefer glucose for fuel. When fat is used for fuel it is inflammatory, catabolic and anti-metabolic. Keto diets encourage “losing weight” at the expense of damaging your metabolism (becoming hyperadrenaline and hypercortisol). We can use fat for short term fuel, it is an adaptive, survival mechanism in the body, it’s not supposed to happen continually.

In summary, you're putting your body in a catabolic (degenerative) state for so called "health benefits" and "weight loss".

Pic related, left, Jimmy moore. famous keto diet pusher. on the right, durianrider, fruitarian.

[Anonymous No.6163212]

>>6163092
>why are you so mad lol
>please respond to my butthurt

[Anonymous No.6163216]

>>6162015
>>6162068
>>6162200
>>6162221
>>6162262
>>6162374
>>6162050
The reality about the Inuit:

• They were NOT in ketosis: http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/reiterate-elevated-ketone.html
• They did NOT consume a zero carb or plant free diet: http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/disrupting-carbs-prebiotics.html
• They were NOT free of the diseases of civilization: Primitive Nutrition 27: The Eskimo Model, Part I
• Vilhalmur Stefansson was a self-serving fraud: http://freetheanimal.com/2014/04/explorer-vilhjalmur-stefansson.html
• They probably have genetic adaptations compensating for their higher protein and fat intakes which you don't have: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22584514

[Anonymous No.6163226]

Ketofags wear their insulin resistance (ketosis) as a badge of honor, claiming that this is an advantaged chemical state that allows them to conserve glucose. What I don’t see explained is that many ketofags have fasting glucose over 110, which is prediabetic, and it is dangerous.

Fasting glucose over 110 – regardless of the reason for it – means your body is continuously producing glycation products with proteins and these are dangerous. High persistent glucose levels over 100 is associated with neuropathy, risk of cancer, heart disease, etc.

I don’t understand how you can be philosophically or intellectually consistent in saying that you want to avoid fructose, glucose or starch as a food source, but you are willing to tolerate your body creating very high levels of glucose internally. Surely glucose is worse if it is part of a high fasting glucose than it is bad as a dietary input?

[Anonymous No.6163239]

>>6163205
This has to be a troll.
> When fat is used for fuel it is inflammatory
Ketogenic diets are anti-inflammatory
> catabolic
Only if you eat too much protein and your body switches to that over fat, causing muscle loss
>anti-metabolic
Your body starts burning more than 3x the fat it does when on a ketogenic diet.
All this shit is answered in this video, seriously watch it, everything you been getting told is a complete lie. I'm being as sincere as possible.>>6163165
>>6163165
>>6163165

[Anonymous No.6163264]

>>6163239
>>6163165

Did you ever think to learn about nutrition from someone who's not an Atkins employee? You might like this video. It doesn't focus on weight loss because weight loss isn't the end-all of diets, it should at best come passively while the focus of diet ought to be on long-term health

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs0

[Anonymous No.6163290]

>>6163264
He went over long term health multiple times, and spoke of his diabetic patient who has been on a ketogenic diet since 2000, and he's has reduced inflammation and his signs of diabetes have all but disappeared.
Did you even watch the video?

[Anonymous No.6163296]

But if I don't keto how will I get swole?

[Anonymous No.6163326]

>>6163290

>He went over long term health multiple times

Unverified anecdotes about single cases are basically useless though, every doctor with any diet has these cases to talk about. The video I linked is of the former president of the world's top rated cardiac care hospital talking about fatty diets and heart disease, with references to a study he did where he was able to reverse established atherosclerosis in patients using a strict low-fat diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7500065

He based the diet on cultures like the Okinawans of Japan, the Tarahumara Indians, and the Papua New Guinea Highlanders who eat very low fat diets based on whole plant foods and have some of the lowest rates of heart disease in the world

[Anonymous No.6163365]

>>6163326
So you haven't shown me high fat diets are bad, just that you can reverse things with low-fat diets...

[Anonymous No.6163436]

>>6163365

You missed that it's high fat diets that cause the disease in the first place

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1520-037X.2001.00538.x/pdf

[Anonymous No.6163453]

>>6163436
>High fat diet
>High fat high carbohydrate diet
Not the same thing. Obviously if you're slamming away 5 Big Macs a day and not in Ketosis burning 3x the fat content a day, then yes, you're going to get fucked in the heart.

[Anonymous No.6163472]

>>6161373
When they all died of atherosclerosis.

atkinsexposed.org

[Anonymous No.6163486]

>>6163239
Holy fuck you retard, stop.

>>6163216
This idiot uses the inuit as an example when THEYRE NOT EVEN KETO

[Anonymous No.6163954]

What happens if you eat whatever the fuck you like in moderation and go to the gym without calculating macros? I've seen lots of guys who are fit and basically live on Nutella and other junk food.

[Anonymous No.6164004]

>>6161702
lol this is the dumb shit ketards tell themselves.

[Anonymous No.6164120]

>>6163954
Dietfags will pop a vein because you do not follow their retarded plan religiously.

[Anonymous No.6164170]

>>6163954
This is what I do. I only make sure I get enough protein and call it a day, but I also don't care for a lot of junk food and like to cook for myself so it works out.

[Anonymous No.6164178]

>>6164170
You are getting good results then?

[Anonymous No.6164190]

>>6164178
I'm not fat and all my lifts have been climbing steadily, so yeah.

[Anonymous No.6164192]

>>6164190
That's good, keep it up.

[Anonymous No.6164196]

>>6163954

This works as long as you (pick one)

1. Are in your 20s or younger
2. Don't drink
3. Consistently get 8 hours of restful sleep every night

Otherwise hitting your macro requirements while staying on your calorie requirements is key

[Anonymous No.6164347]

>>6164178
I'd eat the cream even if it was against my religious. Cream is too damn good to pass up.

[Anonymous No.6164363]

>>6161373
I tend to keep a pretty strict diet of VVJ. I only consume it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Never take it as a snack. It should be your whole meal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbX2xWOrQpM

[Anonymous No.6164371]

>>6164363
This is all we eat here

[Anonymous No.6164378]

>>6164363
what are the macros on that

[Anonymous No.6164398]

>>6164378
Just keep pressing 6 on your keyboard while listening to the tutorial. It'll explain everything.

[Anonymous No.6164406]

>>6164398
kek

[Anonymous No.6164545]

>>6161702
>natural way humans were meant to eat pre agricultural revolution

How is the agricultural revolution not a part of nature?

[Anonymous No.6164684]

>>6164545
Was it in Jesus' Plan? Nope.

[Anonymous No.6164690]

>>6164545
Because bread is bad for you

[Anonymous No.6164840]

>>6164690
Its worse than refined sugar.

[Anonymous No.6164851]

>>6164840
All that dietary fiber WILL cause cancer

[Anonymous No.6165481]

>>6164851
>dietary fiber causes cancer

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

[Anonymous No.6165959]

>>6164851
How?

[Anonymous No.6166021]

>>6161373

When will /fit/ shit posts that end in "?!?!?!" no longer get 100+ replies?

[Anonymous No.6166242]

>>6166021
Ur mum

[None !!PtLB3ymuDuE No.6166260]

>>6163326
I went on a keto diet last year, had my diabetic father do it as well. His overnight fasting blood glucose went from high 200's to around 120 in a month. Before he eventually broke the diet he got it down to prediabetes levels.
Enjoy my anecdote, what do I know i'm just a chicken.

[Anonymous No.6166895]

>>6166260
That's why I want to do it. Fucking diabetes.

[Anonymous No.6168328]

>>6164690
Bread IS absolutely terrible for you, though. Its like, the one thing besides soda, that most people could cut out and drop 10 pounds in two weeks doing.

[Anonymous No.6168371]

So I should cut all bread from my diet ? I'd be willing to try this actually.

[Anonymous No.6169210]

>>6168371
Yes, bread is like AIDS to your blood sugar levels and whatnot. If you cut out all bread, and bread products, you would drop weight, feel better, grow a bigger dick, etc.

[Anonymous No.6169215]

>>6168371
I haven't eaten bread in years and I don't miss it one bit. Try eating bread with nothing on it. There is no reason to miss that shit.

[Anonymous No.6169978]

bump

[Anonymous No.6170017]

>>6168371

No, just replace white bread with whole grain bread. Anybody saying to avoid whole grain bread is trolling or retarded

[Anonymous No.6170142]

>>6161373
When it stops working

[Anonymous No.6171371]

>all these gullible idiots
enjoy dying from heart failure in ~10 years.
Also hideous skin, awful dental hygiene/breath and thin unattractive hair.