/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.19256146]

>31
>170 pounds
>did light exercise a few days a week
>5'9
>never smoked
>last week had heart attack due to atherosclerosis due to my diet, recovering now but i have to eat squeaky clean for the rest of my life

i subsisted off ramen, five guys, and taco bell from 16 all the way up to 28 or so (i made some lifestyle changes during covid)

what am i in for culinary wise? any fellow heart attack survivors on /ck/?

[Anonymous No.19256150]

Missing something from the "stats" specifically something that did not exist a few years ago

[Anonymous No.19256151]

are you going to eat whole food plant based, or force this to continue happening?

[Anonymous No.19256152]

>>19256146
Well, first things first, are you a vaxxie and are you currently paying the taxxie?

[Anonymous No.19256153]

>>19256146
>i subsisted off ramen, five guys, and taco bell from 16 all the way up to 28
Are you retarded? How do people live like this?

[Anonymous No.19256155]

>>19256150
i'm not even vaxxed.

[Anonymous No.19256162]

>>19256146
healthy eating doesn't mean unflavorable/unenjoyable, just thinner profit margins for whoever you're buying food from, and you'll find food is more satisfying when it has the nutrients you crave. feedback mechanisms will eventually have you wanting only clean food most of the time, at least if you're competent in the kitchen.

[Anonymous No.19256163]

>>19256146
You are likely skinny fat. Start eating more meat and switching to a home cooked diet. I mean you can make your own burgers and tacos and you'll be better for it. Try to remove PUFAs or vegetable oils as much as possible too which is the largest contributor of heart problems and switch to using animal fats.

[Anonymous No.19256165]

>>19256151
i think my plan is to eat whole plant based. there's a complete protein powder made of peas, i'll have a scoop or two of that daily to get my protein needs, along with protein from nuts which i like.

>>19256153
just a habit i developed. fast food and ramen was a rare treat as a younger kid, once i could get my own food i just went for it. i was skinny and drug free so i didn't think it could have been that bad.

[Anonymous No.19256167]

>>19256150
t. schizo

[Anonymous No.19256171]

>>19256163
i had visible abs until 25ish. even when i made the lifestyle change at 28 i wasn't really skinnyfat like how google images shows it.

[Anonymous No.19256173]

>>19256165
That's awful. They're not even good. Learn to cook, man. Also, did you get the vax?

[Anonymous No.19256174]

>>19256146
I consume the same things, but I also smoke weed often. Am I fucked?

[Anonymous No.19256181]

>>19256173
no, i'm unvaxxed and unboosted. and yeah when i finally stopped eating that shit 3 years ago, it was because i just felt absolutely horrible day in and day out. that triggered me to realize i had to change.

[Anonymous No.19256185]

Try implement some form of fasting like one meal a day, alternate day fasting and etc. It'll help rest your system from all the crap you've been putting in.

[Anonymous No.19256192]

>>19256185
not op but does this actually work?

[Anonymous No.19256195]

>>19256181
Well, too little too late. Eat better mane

[Anonymous No.19256198]

>>19256185
OP, this. Fasting increases LDL which is a good thing. It lowers white cell count. White cells causing abbarant clotting is the real reason for heart attacks. Not "clogged arteries".

[Anonymous No.19256206]

>>19256198
Uh you want LDL low and HDL high

[Anonymous No.19256207]

>>19256192
Yes, lots of recent research about how humans arent meant to be eating 3 meals a day everyday and how fasting allows your body's digestive systems to rest and allow the rest of your body to repair things.

If you're skinny already you dont need to go crazy with it, just do some form of it once a week and you'll get better over time.

[Anonymous No.19256208]

>>19256146
how many cu/ck/s have we lost over the years from their shitty diets without anyone of us even knowing??

also how the fuck is jack and joey still alive and kicking with zero heart attacks

[Anonymous No.19256211]

>>19256146
>be me
>30
>1 pack a day from 17-22
>2-3packs a day the past 7or8 years
>raised on fast food
>eat even worse as an adult
>haven't worked out regularly since I was 22
>still no medical problems on the horizon
It's just not fair bros. I just want that cozy hospice lyfstyl

[Anonymous No.19256221]

>>19256211
i'm starting to realize health is 80-90% uncontrollable genetics and 20-10% things you have control over, even if you're 600 pounds. my gf's dad is 300 pounds and 67 but just takes his diabetes pills and cholesterol meds and his only complaints are knee pain and feeling low energy if his blood sugar is low in the afternoon.

[Anonymous No.19256225]

>>19256211
Do you feel unhealthy though? I find it impossible to believe you aren't having heart palpitations, coughing up black shit, severe constipation, etc.

[Anonymous No.19256230]

>heart attack at 31
Bro you are so fucked

[Anonymous No.19256232]

>>19256181
You're not describing what was so bad about what you've eaten, and in apropos to an earlier post, you've offered plant protein as some sort of remedy. Inductive reasoning follows you're blaming beef, fats and so on. These are not unhealthy and their consumption does not lead to heart disease. If this is so, everything had nothing to do with what what you are wrongly blaming. I'm nearing 400mg/dl of total cholesterol and 200mg/dl of LDL. I take dextroamphetamine, nicotine, and caffeine. Im older than you and haven't had any heart issues once. Eating plant protein and getting on statins will make you sicker. Your problem is high white cell count and extreme inflammation. If any foods are to blame, it's sugar and seed oils. Your heart is damaged and needs to repair. The worst thing you could do now is reduce the constituents needed for it to he healed.

[Anonymous No.19256237]

>>19256221
He'll be dead in less than 5 years. Statins destroy your health.

[Anonymous No.19256243]

>>19256146
>>19256165
>>19256171
wtf are you me?? I'm 26 now, and I just now decided to start lifting and eating healthier because i became skinny fat in the last year or so.
am I going to die???
what should I be doing to prevent this?
just regular exercise and good diet or am i fucked?

[Anonymous No.19256246]

>>19256225
I do cough up some clear jello pieces in the morning, yes.

[Anonymous No.19256250]

>>19256211
Oh yeah, and drugs. I've also done a lot of drugs. I forget those are bad gor you

[Anonymous No.19256265]

>>19256232
Listen to this dude. ((((doctors))) are literally giving you outdated and health destroying advice by telling you to switch to just a plant based diet full of PUFAs.

[Anonymous No.19256273]

>>19256265
... and what about a plant based diet without seed oils? it can be done the same way keto without gorging on butter and bacon can be done. pretty easily actually.

[Anonymous No.19256286]

You're going to have kidney stones soon

[Anonymous No.19256312]

>>19256273
Imbecile. The entire premise of cholesterol and saturated fats being the etiological agents for cardiovascular disease is nonsense and predicated on nothing but rats with FH that couldn't eliminate these in the first place and decades of garbage poorly controlled epidemiological studies rife with self selection bias. Reducing these vital nutrients will severely detriment your health. Go take plant protein and lipator, you'll have another heart attack. The weakest point was actually seed oil, but you only took this to heart like you've taken other things to heart like your junk pathogenesis of heart disease because it's popular right now. It is mostly bad when it is the sole source of most of your fats leading to higher ratio of linoleic and long chain fats in your system. If you're so gullible you pick and choose points in a post based on previous ad confirmation bias from previous ad poplum bits of superficial knowledge you've observed, then you're almost beyond any hope. It pains me to see people like you on this website.

[Anonymous No.19256331]

>>19256312
>It pains me to see people like you on this website.

yeah the scholarly forum known as 4chan lol. standards sure have slipped for this place. and i'm not even OP so fucking relax bro. i know im healthier than you.

[Anonymous No.19256338]

>>19256331
If you're so healthy then why did you have a heart attack?

[Anonymous No.19256371]

>>19256338
I didn’t have one.

[Anonymous No.19256404]

>>19256163
This is the best advice so far. Veganfags need not apply.

[Anonymous No.19256410]

>>19256181
Shoulda got vaxxed m8. Coulda prevented all of this.

[Anonymous No.19256411]

>>19256221
Statins almost permanently fuck up your metabolism and essentially REQUIRE you to be on them for life. Fasting and eating well sourced meat and dairy with fruits and some occasional veggies are all you need to thrive.
Health is 90% nutrition.

[Anonymous No.19256413]

>>19256331
>Shut up, i know im healthier than you, hmph!
*ignores everything he said*

[Anonymous No.19256416]

>>19256232
This nigga knows. The saturated fats literally try to HEAL all the damage done by PUFAs. A good rule of thumb regarding nutrition is "if people didn't eat it 150 years ago, neither should you". Although I would add most vegetables and grains to that list as well.

[Anonymous No.19256418]

>>19256211
Ugh literally how my body refuses to let me smoke more than half a pack

[Anonymous No.19256424]

>>19256273
The reason why people lose weight and have better cardiovascular outcomes (to a point) on plant based diets is because the body cannibalizes itself to get the nutrients it needs since plants actively don't want to be eaten. Fruit are an exception.

[Anonymous No.19256427]

>>19256146
Were there any signs weeks before the attack that the rest of us should look out for?

[Anonymous No.19256434]

>>19256416
>>19256411
Yeah to add to this, look up the fact that just a century ago people didnt know what heart attacks were because they were so rare and they gorge themselves on nothing but meat, butters, diary and other saturated fats. Then after they started to shill seed oils as a heart healthy option and everyone swapped over to that is when heart diseases and attacks started rising to insane levels that we see here today.

If you look up the "French paradox" and "Israel paradox" on wiki you can see how the french consume a lot of butter and meats and somehow they have the least amount of heart diseases in the world while israel is the biggest consume of seed oils and vegetables and they have the highest heart diseases in the world.

[Anonymous No.19256443]

>>19256418
Devil's lettuce

[Anonymous No.19256466]

>>19256146
When you make your first healthy dish that you actually like, the door will open.

[Anonymous No.19256479]

Always wild to me to see people my age in such poor health. I drink, I smoke, I eat fatty foods and yet I'm still full energy, vim, vigor. I never get sick, I have no allergies, ailments, or illnesses. Looks like us blue collar chads win again.

[Anonymous No.19256489]

>2-3 packs a day
unrionically would cost you 600usd+ per week where I live
fuck jews fuck kikes fuck niggers

[Anonymous No.19256497]

now im nervous, i dont eat the greatest and don't exercise / sit at pc all day... what exactly is it in foods that cause this clogging shit and can it be reversed?

[Anonymous No.19256599]

vax maxxed

[Anonymous No.19256605]

>>19256167
>he's waiting for CNN to tell him about the genocidal death/birth rates.

I'm so fucking glad people like you got vaxmaxxed.

[Anonymous No.19256608]

>>19256181
did you get nasal swabbed?

[Anonymous No.19256623]

>>19256146
Probably need to cut back on the carbs bro. They are poison.

[Anonymous No.19256633]

>>19256497
Got the same question, how do I unclog my arteries once they've started going fucky?
Currently banking on my own cooking and jogging a lot should do it.

[Anonymous No.19256639]

>>19256146
Did you get vaccinated? Folk been eating shitty forever but by recently are 30 years olds getting heart attacks.

[Anonymous No.19256645]

>>19256608
Not OP but yea, I got a test so i could travel, but have never been covid vaxxed. A Walgreens pcr nose swab can't contribute to heart problems, can it?

[Anonymous No.19256816]

>>19256146
https://youtu.be/-ZgLWZrBeDY?t=111

[Anonymous No.19256841]

>>19256192
limiting your caloric intake works yes

[Anonymous No.19256853]

>>19256163
PUFAs are very important to exclude, but don't forget about sugar too. How much soda do you drink? It's also amazing how almost all sweets are some concoction of PUFAs and sugar, which is like the worst possible thing you could eat.

[Anonymous No.19256856]

>>19256633
>>19256497
Read "Put Your Heart In Your Mouth"

[Anonymous No.19256866]

>>19256645
>A Walgreens pcr nose swab can't contribute to heart problems, can it?
Anon, I...

[Anonymous No.19256890]

>>19256856
I don't need a complete breakdown of the conditions and systems involved. I can only do a limited number of things related to this regardless so there's a much simpler answer than reading an entire book about it. It's probably the same old "don't eat trash and move your ass" anyway. I don't suppose you are willing to share a quick rundown?

[Anonymous No.19256894]

>>19256146
Keto gives you heart disease retard start eating carbs again

[Anonymous No.19256942]

>>19256146
The root cause of arterial plaque formation is damage to lipoproteins. Lipoproteins can be damaged by a multitude of things both inside and out, the main ones being 1) carrying a cargo of chemically unstable processed fat (see: sneed oils), and 2) oxidation through prolonged high blood sugar levels.

[Anonymous No.19256950]

>>19256146
Start by avoiding processed foods out there as much as possible, even all together. Which can be very difficult in this life. Start looking into meal planning, buy some good glass containers.
People meme on here about salt, but every nutrient shouldn't be too low or top high. Just like we shouldn't stuff our faces with sugar, we shouldn't stuff our faces with salt. Anytime I've eaten more than 2000mg or more in one sitting my heart feels as if it's trying to escape my chest. Though that usually happens after I've eaten processed foods, fast food, or something along those lines but I don't think anyone is going to consume that much salt in one sitting unless it's through any processed foods. Salt is necessary, and is the main ingredient to making food delicious. Everyone has different tolerances too. So start low and find out how low you can tolerate. I wouldn't go over 1000mg in one meal a day unless you don't find it to a bother.

Look into foods that others claim to be specifically good for your heart, and I don't mean AHA stamps of approval. For example beets are claimed to be pretty good, along with garlic and celery. Other common foods are fish, egg, nuts, and legumes, which all have omega oils that you need a balance of.
I wouldn't start skipping grains or carbs in general, but you don't need the amount the FDA suggests. Make sure they're whole grain. Keto enthusiasts will always say how whole grain is just a filtered cigarette, but it seems anytime they mention that it's always in a relationship to wheat. To be fair the wheat commonly ate today is some strange variety produced within the last decade to produce a higher number of yields. There's more grains than just wheat though like rice, barley, and quinoa. Try some farro sometime. Basically use it like you would rice.
Hawthorn tea is said to be good, and it doesn't taste too bad.

[Anonymous No.19256959]

>>19256950
Ignore this dude's schizo rant. Just stop eating unprocessed food. Meat, dairy, eggs, vegetables, whatever the fuck it's all fine so long as it isn't processed.

[Anonymous No.19256970]

>>19256959
>Just stop eating unprocessed food
*processed

Eat natural shit.

[Anonymous No.19256976]

>>19256167
vax are great.

but, relying on unprecedented MOA and deep freeze supply chain... really?

[Anonymous No.19256977]

>>19256146
>>19256146
>now but i have to eat squeaky clean for the rest of my life
Must be congenital.
So you follow the McDougall diet?

[Anonymous No.19256983]

>>19256977
I use walmart aspartame to make my food taste better, btw. It's been a great help to me.

[Anonymous No.19256984]

>>19256959
What part of that was a schizo rant?

[Anonymous No.19256989]

>>19256206
LDL doesn't cause an issue unless it's oxidized, then it becomes atherogenic. LDL oxidation is caused by suppressed uptake by the liver, and oxidative stress (inflammation). Each of those could have several causes, a common one being a diet high in fructose and alcohol. Those both correlate with insulin resistance.

The LDL:CVR association is so fuzzy because there are some things that raise LDL but lower CVR, such as healthy fat metabolism. LDL isn't a toxin, LDL is a byproduct of fat burning and also is an initial buffer for oxidation.

[Anonymous No.19257141]

>>19256146
Imma be the third person to ask if you got the jibby jab

[Anonymous No.19257180]

>>19256146
Raypeat.com . You got it due to Pufa. No need to thank me

[Anonymous No.19257188]

>>19256150
fortnite? i fucking knew it

[Anonymous No.19257285]

>>19256146
you need vitamin K2 to reabsorb that gross shit into your bloodstream and get it to your bones and teeth.

[Anonymous No.19257627]

>>19256146
Regardless of your diet, to have heart disease at 31 suggests a genetic component. Eat clean and exercise but you're also most likely going to need to take statin drugs to keep your cholesterol low.

[Anonymous No.19257629]

>>19257627
It suggests vaxxie

[Anonymous No.19257634]

>>19256989
>LDL doesn't cause an issue unless it's oxidized, then it becomes atherogenic
Dumb way to look at it. There's no way to prevent LDL from oxidizing, it's a natural part of being in your body, and high LDL is itself atherogenic and inflammatory.
>LDL isn't a toxin, LDL is a byproduct of fat burning and also is an initial buffer for oxidation.
LDL is a lipoprotein meant to carry cholesterol through the blood and your body is designed to excrete it in several ways in order to keep its presence in the blood at a safe level just like it does with everything. Saturated fat interferes with the process of excreting it by causing the receptors that absorb and get rid of it to shut down, similarly to how in diabetes your body struggles to control its blood sugar.

[Anonymous No.19257653]

>>19256977
>starch solution diet
lmao. could you be any more of a general mills shill?

[Anonymous No.19257678]

>>19256950
generally good advice. some nitpicks
>Just like we shouldn't stuff our faces with sugar, we shouldn't stuff our faces with salt
true, but we don't need sugar (more specifically sucrose...table sugar) to survive

>Make sure they're whole grain. Keto enthusiasts will always say how whole grain is just a filtered cigarette, but it seems anytime they mention that it's always in a relationship to wheat.
doesn't matter. it's better just not to eat that ultra-processed slop on shelves. if you NEED to have bread, get a freshly-baked loaf that goes hard in a day. tip regarding the freshness: if you want to extend it by a couple days, put it in a plastic bag and in the fridge.

[Anonymous No.19257679]

>>19256208
The real answer would be good genetics and being incredibly lucky. The only thing good diet and exercise can do is decrease the "chance" one has health defects or heart attacks. My grandfather who died at the age of 110 was a smoker for most of his life, he would roll up the packages himself.

[Anonymous No.19257690]

>>19257629
it suggests you can’t read beyond five replies

[Anonymous No.19257701]

>>19257690
If you're OP I read that but I wasn't sure if it was a reply from him or someone else

[Anonymous No.19257703]

shouldve munched down some fucking greens here and there inbetween all the bacon burgers

[Anonymous No.19257748]

>>19256146
you faggot have another heart attack

[Anonymous No.19257790]

>>19257629
>2 years later, rest of the world has moved on
>except obsessed anons on the internet that still shit and piss their pants daily about it

[Anonymous No.19257792]

>>19257634
>There's no way to prevent LDL from oxidizing
wrong

[Anonymous No.19257802]

>>19257790
like you

[Anonymous No.19257804]

>>19257790
two more weeks or two more decades and i'll ACK from the vaxxie as planned

[Anonymous No.19257806]

>>19257802
me laughing at you is different from you crying about it in this thread unprompted

[Anonymous No.19257810]

>>19257792
You can decrease the rate of LDL oxidation but there's no scenario where no LDL becomes oxidized, and the best way to minimize oxidized LDL is obviously to have less LDL in the first place.

[Anonymous No.19257828]

>>19256146
>Heart attack at 31
That is spectacularly improbable.
Either you are a lying faggot or you have incredibly dogshit genetics.

[Anonymous No.19257833]

Maybe he has familial hypercholesterolemia on top of shitty arterial genes

[Anonymous No.19257844]

>>19256146
Carnivore diet. Nothing but meat, fish, lard, tallow, duck fat, and bacon fat. No seed/vegetable oil.

[Anonymous No.19257848]

>>19256153
Americans live like that. Most americans live off junk food and ready meals. It's completely acceptable in usa to never cook and have mcdonalds every day.

[Anonymous No.19257853]

>>19256312
Yeah high cholesterol is not real and saturated fats are healthy.

[Anonymous No.19257858]

>>19257853
Saturated fat not being bad for you has been accepted science for years, update your knowledge grandpa

[Anonymous No.19257871]

>>19256312
> The entire premise of cholesterol and saturated fats being the etiological agents for cardiovascular disease is nonsense and predicated on nothing but rats with FH
Brother, you're a century late to the discussion

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28444290/
>Rare genetic mutations that cause reduced LDL receptor function lead to markedly higher LDL-C and a dose-dependent increase in the risk of ASCVD, whereas rare variants leading to lower LDL-C are associated with a correspondingly lower risk of ASCVD. Separate meta-analyses of over 200 prospective cohort studies, Mendelian randomization studies, and randomized trials including more than 2 million participants with over 20 million person-years of follow-up and over 150 000 cardiovascular events demonstrate a remarkably consistent dose-dependent log-linear association between the absolute magnitude of exposure of the vasculature to LDL-C and the risk of ASCVD; and this effect appears to increase with increasing duration of exposure to LDL-C. Both the naturally randomized genetic studies and the randomized intervention trials consistently demonstrate that any mechanism of lowering plasma LDL particle concentration should reduce the risk of ASCVD events proportional to the absolute reduction in LDL-C and the cumulative duration of exposure to lower LDL-C, provided that the achieved reduction in LDL-C is concordant with the reduction in LDL particle number and that there are no competing deleterious off-target effects.
> Consistent evidence from numerous and multiple different types of clinical and genetic studies unequivocally establishes that LDL causes ASCVD.
This is in humans, and yet in every animal species ever tested, be it our closest relatives or the most alien creatures, the result is the same. If you can raise LDL, you can induce heart disease. Nothing else is required.

[Anonymous No.19257879]

>>19257828
Dick Cheney had heart attacks in his early 30 despite being pretty fit then.

[Anonymous No.19257884]

>>19256174
the weed relaxes your arteries and prevents clotting so you should be fine

[Anonymous No.19257895]

>>19257871
>associated with
>RCTs
Ah yes, a midwit that can't read offering soft studies without any causal mechanism other than LDL bad.

[Anonymous No.19257897]

>>19256146
As someone who had a cardiovascular scared, get a Vitamix blender.
Smoothies are easy ways to get a bunch of veggies in your diet.
I usually put in a bit of almond milk, a large kale leaf, whole carrot, celery stalk, and a scoop of Amazing Grass powder. Then I'll throw in w.e. fresh fruit and frozen fruit I have on hand.
The fruit flavor really overpowers the veg flavor, so you actually get to enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.19257899]

>>19256416
>>19256312
>>19256243

it looks like a lot of healthy foods have pufas outside of oils. things like avocados, walnuts, eggs, etc. are we supposed to not eat any pufas or just the ones that come from oils?

[Anonymous No.19257902]

>>19257858
they are still bad and unhealthy, the most unhealthy option out of all oils/fats

[Anonymous No.19257913]

>>19256434
they didn't have modern technology to even diagnose anything at all with the heart lmfao

people died of heart attacks, they just thought it was 'their time' or 'old age' or 'god smiting them'

[Anonymous No.19257914]

>>19257895
That's scientific language. The bottom line is if you think the association is just a coincidence despite how closely and consistently it tracks, again, not just in humans but in every species on planet Earth that has a heart and arteries, you'd need more than a miracle's worth of counter-evidence to even begin to make that argument. Your only option is to take the same sort of approach religious fundamentalists take to the discovery of dinosaur fossils; that it's just a trick that can't be explained because the devil is behind it.

[Anonymous No.19257917]

>>19257902
>the easiest to break down and least oxidative of fats is the worst
Makes absolutely no sense. White cells being elevated are what triggers clotting and heart attacks.

[Anonymous No.19257918]

>>19257879
Anecdotes are meaningless. It's impossible to have a heart attack that young naturally.

[Anonymous No.19257921]

>>19256479
it catches up to you buddy boy. trust me. you're like a person who plays sports and goes 'hey my body is invincible' just because you're young. every athlete falls apart later in life.

[Anonymous No.19257923]

>>19257914
Science is predicated on causality. They could have high LDL simply because they are unhealthy with other issues to begin with. That does not mean LDL being elevated itself is what is causing CVD.

[Anonymous No.19257931]

>>19257918
>impossible
>documented case of someone having a heart attack that young
I think you don't know the meaning of that word.

[Anonymous No.19257943]

>>19257899
everyone using PUFAs so far in this thread are just parroting it without actually realizing what they're saying. the real dangerous stuff are ones like soybean oil, canola oil...basically every hydrogenated oil. they undergo a ton of chemical processes to make them palatable. as a result, they oxidate relatively quickly and that results in just not being good for your body.

stuff like avocado oil (also a PUFA) is fine. the point is you want as minimal processing as possible the bigger problem with them is that a lot of the times they're mixed with lower-grade oils. if you have to go with one plant-based oil, get extra virgin oil from California Olive Kitchen (they distribute relatively widely). you can use it for pretty much everything. yes, including high heat cooking. you'll be done with the cooking long before the oil actually starts to break down.

[Anonymous No.19257951]

>>19257897
>almond milk

dude just drink normal water. all of that almond/oat milk shit is way more processed than people think. just add some extra fruit if the taste needs to be improved, but that almond milk shit is not good.

[Anonymous No.19257955]

>>19257923
>They could have high LDL simply because they are unhealthy with other issues to begin with. That does not mean LDL being elevated itself is what is causing CVD.
You haven't read what I posted. We aren't starting to think about what causes heart disease right now in this thread. It's been studied for many decades, and what I posted is a finding based on hundreds of studies of different kinds, including studies on the genes associated with cholesterol clearance.
People with genetically high cholesterol have more heart attacks. People with genetically low cholesterol have fewer heart attacks. The extent in either direction tracks consistently with how low or how high the cholesterol is. This has nothing to do with lifestyle factors. There's nothing following LDL cholesterol around here and passing the blame onto it.

[Anonymous No.19257967]

>>19257943
well i love avocados/eggs/walnuts/sunflower seeds, and i can bare to add some flaxseed to my vegetable smoothies, but i don't consume any pufas besides those at all. whole, real foods.

[Anonymous No.19257971]

>>19257951
>dude just drink normal water. all of that almond/oat milk shit is way more processed than people think
it's literally blended almonds, water, and added vitamins you fucking retard lmao. cow's milk is more processed

[Anonymous No.19258010]

>>19257955
>the science is settled

[Anonymous No.19258030]

>>19256633
1) Fast. Intermittent fasting is good but OMAD is even better.
2) Cut out all seed oils and most PUFAs (EVOO, coconut and avocado oils are all okay).
3) Eat more well sourced dairy and meat, preferably raw.
4) Avoid most vegetables and grains. They are poisonous and full of antinutrients, making them at best, empty calories.
5) Fruits are fine, but again, get them from a good source.

Congratulations, you just solved 90% of your health problems.

[Anonymous No.19258041]

>>19257967
Avocados are generally fine as long as they're well sourced. Eggs are a superfood but should also be well sourced. All seeds are poisonous and one of the worst things to eat. Stop eating them.

EVOO, avocado oil and coconut oil are fine because they are technically not seed oils, they are fruit oils.

[Anonymous No.19258045]

>>19258030
>Avoid most vegetables and grains. They are poisonous and full of antinutrients, making them at best, empty calories.
wat

[Anonymous No.19258055]

>>19257848
yeah i know a lot of people who live like that, i used to when i was like 19
now i have mcgoynalds probably once a week because there's just something about that spicy mcchicken. their fries are fucking poison, though, they're salty to the point it hurts my lips
i can't say no to shitty mexican food though, a greasy adobada burrito is my shit (until i have to shit hehe)

[Anonymous No.19258054]

>>19258041
sunflower seeds and seeds in general are that bad? i love pumpkin seeds with the shell on in my scrambled eggs. what about legumes or nuts like walnuts, cashews, almonds, etc?

[Anonymous No.19258056]

>>19258010
Like I said, if you want to even begin arguing otherwise, you'd need more than a miracle's worth of counter-evidence to explain it all. Ignoring all the research and then saying "I bet they didn't think of THIS!" isn't a reasonable counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.19258058]

>>19258041
>Eggs are a superfood
Or so says the egg industry. And you might believe it too if you squint out all the details.

[Anonymous No.19258059]

>>19258054
>what about legumes or nuts like walnuts, cashews, almonds, etc?
they're fine to eat in moderation. some of them have quite high in omega-6s which you want to avoid so i'd check that first

[Anonymous No.19258060]

>>19258041
chia seeds are quite high in omega 3's. bad?

[Anonymous No.19258076]

Lmao I'm glad you had a heart attack you FAT piece of shit. Delusional circumcised american golem. 5"9 and 170 is fucking GROSS. Just waddle to your grave already, what the fuck do you have to live for lol

[Anonymous No.19258078]

>>19258058
Ah yes, it's Big Eggs being biased due to a single study. Keep consuming seed oils and unbalanced PUFAs friend. Make sure they're as high in linoleic acid as possible for maximum metabolic dysfunction and leaky gut.

[Anonymous No.19258094]

>>19258078
You'll find that most of the research they use to market eggs as a "superfood" makes eggs look like shit.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10426702/
>Egg yolk supplementation of the beef tallow diet increased plasma lutein by 28% (P < 0.05) and zeaxanthin by 142% (P < 0.001); supplementation of the corn oil diet increased plasma lutein by 50% (P < 0.05) and zeaxanthin by 114%
Wow! Eggs are great for your eyes, they have lutein and zeaxanthin! Run the press release!
> Egg yolk supplementation increased plasma LDL-cholesterol concentrations by 8-11%
>Conclusions: Egg yolk is a highly bioavailable source of lutein and zeaxanthin. The benefit of introducing these carotenoids into the diet with egg yolk is counterbalanced by potential LDL-cholesterol elevation from the added dietary cholesterol.
Just uh... leave that part out!

And you'll ignore it anyway because they've turned you into a lapdog who has to defend the honor of your favorite consumer goods.

[Anonymous No.19258097]

>>19258058
humans been eating eggs for a million years, not gonna stop now simple as.

[Anonymous No.19258106]

>>19258060
>>19258059
>>19258054
>>19258045
Legumes and seeds are the parts of plants that have the highest concentrations of phytic acid, endocrine disruptors and other antinutrients. These defense systems make what nutrients the plants do have not very bioavailable, which requires LARGE consumption of them compared to animal-based foods. Plants do not want to be eaten and their most important parts (roots, stems, leaves and ESPECIALLY seeds) all have evolved to discourage their consumption by animals. Likewise, some animals have evolved to get around this and process them anyway, but humans are not one of them. Fruits, however, are specifically produced by plants to be eaten by animals and are fine to eat.

Most plants and grains are slave foods and should only be eaten for survival purposes or a small amount on a rare occasion for some hormetic effect.

[Anonymous No.19258108]

>>19256856
>female dr with hyphenated last name

Nope, she is an idiot

[Anonymous No.19258111]

>>19256977
>big sugar has deposited two good boy points in your account

[Anonymous No.19258119]

>>19258094
>he still thinks dietary cholesterol has any bearing on blood serum cholesterol
Our cell walls, blood vessels and brains are literally made of fucking cholesterol retard. Cholesterol doesn't cause endothelial breakdown, it in fact tries to repair the damage done by constant inflammation, which is largely caused by seed oils. High HDL and LDL are completely fine as long as your organs and cardiovascular system are constantly inflamed from eating poisons like refined seed oils, unbalanced Omega-3 and Omega-6 PUFAs, legumes and leafy greens.

[Anonymous No.19258130]

>>19256977
>starch solution diet
Literally, unironically poison. Root vegetables are the least bad part of the plant (besides fruit of course), but they still have phytic acid and antinutrients in them.

[Anonymous No.19258133]

>>19258119
>poisons like...leafy greens
ugh these fucking americans

[Anonymous No.19258137]

>>19258130
potatoes good, dont like it u know where the door is

[Anonymous No.19258148]

>>19258106
You're telling me cabbage and lentils are going to kill me?

[Anonymous No.19258170]

>>19258119
And you're mostly made of water. Go show me how drowning is just a myth.

[Anonymous No.19258173]

>>19258137
I like em too but no they aren't very good for you. Root vegetables are still the least shitty part of the plant though.

[Anonymous No.19258185]

>>19258106
>plants don't want to be eaten
Are you telling me all those farm animals do? Knew it! Checkmate, vegans!

[Anonymous No.19258186]

>>19258148
Yes. They cause a host of digestive issues unless heavily processed (e.g. cooked to death and/or soaked in water) and even then they have little nutrients left at that point and are thus simply empty calories.
>>19258170
Not an argument. Nutrition has been hijacked by people who want you weak, confused, neurotic and perpetually sick. Eating animal-based foods like eggs prevent this. Eating plant-based foods cause this.

Whatever you eat, should be as little processed as possible. It's hilarious that you somehow came to the conclusion in that study that processed goyslop like sausage and cheese sandwich has the same nutrient profile and metabolic reactions as eggs.

[Anonymous No.19258190]

>>19258186
Appeal to conspiracy is not an argument.

[Anonymous No.19258194]

>>19258185
Sarcasm isn't a replacement for an argument. Animals have the benefit of locomotion and strength to fight back (livestock has been bred specifically over thousands of generations to be docile) from predation. Plants obviously cannot do this, so they use chemicals and antinutrients instead to discourage their consumption.

[Anonymous No.19258203]

>>19258190
Neither is shilling for (((Big Agro))) by claiming eggs are bad. I do agree with you that the hardboiled eggs they fed them were probably from GMO-fed, antibiotic-pumped, factory chickens who never saw sunlight though and so skewed results. Eggs are good for you. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.19258209]

>>19258203
Well I'm convinced. Can't beat "nuh uh" as a counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.19258221]

>>19258203
>no but yes but uh I bet the chicken ate WHEAT and that's what made the egg unhealthy!
>no and it must've been raised by some white-hating Jew to make toxic eggs on purpose!
>no but umm you know unhappy chickens lay unhealthy eggs because obviously they want to get back at the humans so that's why!
>my happy eggs are completely different! they're happy! I'm happy! organic! pure!

[Anonymous No.19258239]

>>19258194
So why isn't every animal on the planet carnivorous? Are most of them just taking one for the team and eating poison? Nothing's suited to eating plants?

[Anonymous No.19258242]

>>19258194
>the animals can be bred for us to eat them without a fight
>but not the plants people have been breeding along side these animals for centuries
>the animals that people have been eating for centuries are good for us
>but not the plants people have also been eating for centuries
That's the best you'll get. Your shitty fringe pseudo science isn't worth an argument. I can tell you got a D in biology, and it's only after your parents begged to let you pass.

[Anonymous No.19258245]

>guy asks for diet advice after a live changing event
>thread immediately devolves into hogwash
At least he got a few genuine answers. I just hope he can find them.

[Anonymous No.19258250]

>>19258194
>Animals have the benefit of locomotion and strength to fight back (livestock has been bred specifically over thousands of generations to be docile) from predation. Plants obviously cannot do this, so they use chemicals and antinutrients instead to discourage their consumption.
You gonna eat this frog?

[Anonymous No.19258267]

>>19258056
Statistical fallacy, appeal to ignorance. I've only spoken on the hypothesis for cholesterol and asserted the statistical associations with LDL and heart disease do not prove that LDL is indeed causing heart disease. If you can't discuss the mechanics of it and point to a causal mechanism then you don't have science or even evidence. Such evidence as you asserted proved that pellegra was caused by eating corn, proved that low altitude caused cholera and was widely accepted for decades until the actual cause was found, rendering such evidence moot.

There are countless arguments against the cholesterol hypothesis:
https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/104/10/867/1591864

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496605/

‘Causality is the key: there is no way of doing science without causality, it is the sine qua non for all understanding and progress' - Judea Pearl

[Anonymous No.19258297]

>>19258267
First link is already blatantly inaccurate
>Eating cholesterol is harmless, shown by its failure to produce vascular accidents in laboratory animals
Egg yolks in particular have been used for over a century to induce atherosclerosis experimentally in animals, originally and most famously in rabbits
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3793599/
>They first fed rabbits diets rich in milk, eggs, and meat, and indeed those rabbits displayed vascular lesions. They went on to determine whether any particular kinds of protein were involved. By a process of progressive elimination they found that whole eggs or egg yolks alone would do the trick, but egg whites alone, even in large amounts, did nothing! Finally, Anitschkow and Chalatow showed that cholesterol, extracted from the egg yolks, purified, and dissolved in vegetable oil, could by itself duplicate the results without any added protein at all.
As much as causality is important, there's only so much doubt you can sow when the data is so consistent for so long with no other theories with nearly as much evidence to challenge it

[Anonymous No.19258318]

>>19258297
Oh look at my surprised face when rabbits are bad at eating eggs when they're primarily herbivores

[Anonymous No.19258319]

>>19258267
>‘Causality is the key: there is no way of doing science without causality
You also have to be willing to accept something as causal when the evidence is overwhelming.

[Anonymous No.19258326]

>>19258318
I saw that response coming. You understand that there still has to be a mechanism for it inducing atherosclerosis in them, right? Before you were saying "your brain is made of cholesterol, therefore cholesterol is just a helpful thing that makes you healthy." Well a rabbit has a brain, why can you give it atherosclerosis with egg yolks? You'll find the answer quite similar to why you can give a human heart disease, as it is the same mechanism. A different level of vulnerability, but the mechanism is still there. It's not magic.

[Anonymous No.19258331]

>>19256211
it’ll hit you soon anon

[Anonymous No.19258427]

>>19256208
>jack
I feel like having a stroke is worse than having a heart attack.

[Anonymous No.19258741]

>>19258221
>no but yes but uh I bet the chicken ate WHEAT and that's what made the egg unhealthy!
Corn most likely. Corn sprayed with pesticides and is itself genetically modified without the benefit of nature doing so itself.
>no and it must've been raised by some white-hating Jew to make toxic eggs on purpose!
Unironically yes. Most factory farmed chickens are raised by mega-conglomerate corporations who are ultimately owned by Chosen People, or wannabe Chosen People.
>no but umm you know unhappy chickens lay unhealthy eggs because obviously they want to get back at the humans so that's why!
No, they lay unhealthy eggs because they themselves are unhealthy because they are subjected to consuming the above poisons in addition to being unnaturally engorged due to hormone usage. Are you retarded enough to believe that the lifestyle wouldn't effect the quality of the eggs?
>my happy eggs are completely different! they're happy! I'm happy! organic! pure!
"Organic" is largely a fake misnomer and can often be bought as a label from the FDA, but is ultimately meaningless other than as a marketing tool. But yes, generally speaking, chickens on an omnivore diet (their natural diet) free to roam in a field will yield more nutritious eggs and meat compared to the factory-farmed garbage; a difference that is immediately noticeable based on egg appearance alone, by the way.

[Anonymous No.19258744]

>>19256146
>did light exercise a few days a week
this is what got you
never ever exercise

[Anonymous No.19258750]

>>19257897
ive never had a heart attack so i can't say with certaintly but jfc i would never in a million years do this id sooner die. just give me the fat retard american pills to let me live another 10 years while i continue to eat/drink whatever. no point to any of this if ihave to eat vegetable and nut milk just let me die at that point

[Anonymous No.19258820]

>>19258331
One can hope, but unfortunately I'm immortal until God figures out what to do with me. I'm too good for hell, but so good if I went to heaven I end up kicking that dude's ass.

[Anonymous No.19258841]

>>19258239
Previous posts point to certain animals (herbivores) evolving to bypass plant defenses with large, multiple stomachs is a hallmark of this to neutralize antinutrients and further break down plant matter to actually make use of the nutrients. This is also why they need to eat enormous amounts of plants.

[Anonymous No.19258849]

>>19256150
fpbp

[Anonymous No.19258854]

anti-goyslop tap water vaccine chemtrail spraying stack
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https://www.amazon.com/Cruz-de-Malta-3-Kilos/dp/B004OPAI5E

[Anonymous No.19258869]

>>19258326
I'm the "brain is made of cholesterol" anon, no him. But he's completely right. You're drawing incorrect conclusions from what the mechanism is based on flawed and biased studies, and which almost all mainstream ones shit on animal-based foods in favor of pushing seed oils.and plant-based foods.
Here, I'll quote your citation:
>Finally, Anitschkow and Chalatow showed that cholesterol, extracted from the egg yolks, purified, and dissolved in vegetable oil, could by itself duplicate the results without any added protein at all.
>extracted, "purified", and dissolved in vegetable oil
>purified
>dissolved in VEGETABLE OIL
Hmm, I wonder if the PROCESSED SEED OIL had anything to do with causing the rabbits' atherosclerosis rather than the fucking egg yolks that were dissolved into that industrial waste product to make it disingenuously seem that egg yolks (the most nutritious part of the egg) are somehow unhealthy for you? Thanks for proving my point that anti-eggs, anti-cholesterol fags are all retarded shills who parrot cherrypicked studies that disprove themselves.

[Anonymous No.19258885]

>>19258869
The seed oils caused inflammation that destroys endothelial cells walls in the arteries, which the saturated fats and cholesterol from the egg yolks desperately try and repair. This is where the entire canard for why eggs and dietary cholesterol are supposedly bad for you come from. Moronic (((nutrition scientists))) attack the medicine healing the problem (eggs, specifically egg yolks) while simultaneously pushing the poison causing the dysfunction. It's the "scientific" equivalent of mixing water with arsenic and sugar and pouring it into a pond full of fish and then when all the fish die, erroneously claim that it was the sugar that caused it. Incredibly dishonest and agenda-pushing.

[Anonymous No.19258983]

>>19256146
>ramen, five guys, and taco bell from 16 all the way up to 28

jesus christ lad. as good a time as any to learn how to cool. start with salads and fruit smoothies. try to lay of the sugars in those smoothies (and count/control the amount of natural sugars in the fruits you use).

[Anonymous No.19259152]

>>19256146
your diet sucked and that's why you developed the precursors to your heart attack

[Anonymous No.19259158]

>>19256165
meat is not the problem btw you should still eat meat just not retarded ground up shit meat

[Anonymous No.19259162]

>>19256232
this

[Anonymous No.19259176]

>>19256237
What do they do to destroy your health? My cholesterol came back high for the first time at 36 and my doctor mentioned something about that if I can’t get it down …

[Anonymous No.19259179]

>>19258885
ayup

[Anonymous No.19259188]

>>19259176
doesn't matter just ignore it. if its still high at 55 maybe do something then

[Anonymous No.19259229]

>>19258854
do i eat the fucking detergent? wash my clothes with it?

[Anonymous No.19259247]

>>19259188
>no doc, a guy on 4chan said it's poison

plenty of people on statins proceed with their terribly unhealthy lifestyle after going on them. it's like boogie2988 getting the gastric bypass surgery and now he's fat again, it's not the surgery's fault, it's his for not picking up right where he left off health-wise. medicine only can do so much if you refuse to make other changes. i'm not convinced statins if used appropriately and with exercise/a healthy diet/much less junk food is going to 'kill you in 5 years'

[Anonymous No.19259259]

>>19258106
>>19258119

>lentils and chickpeas and beans BAD
>spinach BAD

bro this thread is fucking hilarious.

>inb4 you grasp at a study where eating 20 pounds of spinach a day is bad for oxalates

wow just... don't eat that much spinach. don't drink enough water for water intoxication to harm you either. it's not that hard.

[Anonymous No.19259330]

>>19256479
What do you think of this advice?

[Anonymous No.19259334]

>>19259330

[Anonymous No.19259344]

>>19256265
Doctors get their marching orders from pharmaceutical sales reps. If they went back to prescribing niacin instead of statins for cholesterol issues like they used to, they would find themselves under investigation for not following the “updated standard of care”.

[Anonymous No.19259437]

>>19256434
>people before industrial agriculture were gorging themselves on animal fats all day
you're fucking retarded, you're fucking retarded
KILL YOURSELF GOD I HATE KETOTARDS go starve to death from inflation and think about why people in the 1800s wouldn't be eating meat and butter and shit
FUCK YOU

[Anonymous No.19259530]

>>19258869
>Here, I'll quote your citation:
>>dissolved in VEGETABLE OIL
>Hmm, I wonder if the PROCESSED SEED OIL had anything to do with causing the rabbits' atherosclerosis rather than the fucking egg yolks
Note the use of the word "finally" because it was preceded by experiments using whole eggs and then egg yolks first before extracting the cholesterol without the rest of the yolk and using vegetable oil as the carrier. The egg alone with no oil did it. The yolk alone with no oil did it. The egg white didn't because it contained no cholesterol. I even quoted that for you, so you didn't miss it, you just ignored it because you're desperate for any way out of this.

[Anonymous No.19259539]

>>19258841
>multiple stomachs is a hallmark of this to neutralize antinutrients and further break down plant matter
You can't just say "and" to tack a separate point onto it. You were saying plants are poisonous to anything that tries to eat them because they don't want to be eaten. Fiber is a different matter, making it harder to extract nutrients from, but then not every plant is extremely fibrous either.

[Anonymous No.19259544]

>>19256171
170 at 5'9 is slightly overweight.

[Anonymous No.19259749]

>>19258885
So why is it that decreasing the "medicine" improves things and increasing the "medicine" makes it worse?

[Anonymous No.19259819]

>>19259344
There's no need to lower cholesterol in the first place.

[Anonymous No.19259827]

>>19259819
based suicidal anon

[Anonymous No.19259833]

>>19256207
Humans weren't meant to survive infections and major blood loss either

[Anonymous No.19259986]

>>19259827
I'm not suicidal. Cholesterol is not responsible for heart disease period.

[Anonymous No.19260015]

>>19259539
Youre arguing with a literal retard. Dude is gonna spend all this time eating """healthy""" just to wind up getting hit by a fucking train

[Anonymous No.19260137]

>>19259986
>Okay so we got some dying-on-this-hill statements in this thread
>Lets try to look it up on academic resources
>Ok found some not-a-blog research papers on the matter
>Right they agree with anon, lets see what the opposition says
>Alright, loads of the same thing disagreeing with anon this time from various not-a-blog sources

Every time. I don't believe anyone saying they relentlessly validate all their sources agreeing with them and are of the same mind when looking at opposing sources. Is it all really down to hardcore evaluating research methods and number of subjects involved in the research?
Then someone comes in and says "Big pharma paid for this to be made don't believe it" with a wikipedia article showing one of the researchers involved has or had a job related to a big pharma company so it's all invalidated no matter what it says.

It doesn't help any side is 100% cocksure of their opini- sorry I mean "facts" and seem to be perfectly fine murdering anyone who disagrees if they were locked in the same room as them.

[Anonymous No.19260140]

>>19260137
I did not mean to quote cholesterol anon, sorry about that.

[Anonymous No.19262029]

>>19258297
Is this dishonest faggot actually linking that century old piece where a bunch of animals that eat nothing but plants died after being force fed a fuck ton of eggs?

[Anonymous No.19262031]

>>19259247
Statins statistically do nothing.

[Anonymous No.19262045]

>>19260137
>It doesn't help any side is 100% cocksure of their opini- sorry I mean "facts" and seem to be perfectly fine murdering anyone who disagrees if they were locked in the same room as them.
This is because one side of the argument treats everything authority figures tell them as gospel truth, and the other side knows those same authority figures have no moral code and their advice can't be trusted.

[Anonymous No.19262050]

>>19257810
Reducing LDL may reduce LDL oxidation but there's no scenario where no LDL becomes oxidized. And the best way to minimize oxidized LDL is obviously to have less inflammation in the first place.

[Anonymous No.19262061]

>>19257810
>the best way to minimize oxidized LDL is obviously to have less LDL in the first place
"The best solution to a broken ankle is obviously to amputate the whole fucking leg."

No you nigger just stop eating/doing shit that causes oxidation.

[Anonymous No.19262147]

>>19262029
I just stopped replying to him.

[Anonymous No.19262161]

>>19262050
>And the best way to minimize oxidized LDL is obviously to have less inflammation in the first place.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
See >>19258885

[Anonymous No.19262192]

>>19262029
Follow the conversation.
The previous post was linking a paper that said cholesterol feeding has never been shown to produce vascular accidents in lab animals. Anyone who has even a starting understanding of heart disease knows that cholesterol feeding has been used to induce heart disease experimentally in animals for over a century, starting with rabbits, as the paper I posted detailed.
>where a bunch of animals that eat nothing but plants died after being force fed a fuck ton of eggs?
Again, it isn't magic. There has to be a mechanism, doesn't there? So acknowledge that first and explain it better than this:

Egg yolks raised their LDL cholesterol levels, resulting in the same kind of arterial plaques that every species develops when their cholesterol is too high.
You can do the same with dogs. Dogs can handle dietary cholesterol much better but too much saturated fat can still raise their LDL and cause heart disease.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1263442/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1273587/
>The diet induced a rapid elevation of plasma-free and esterfied cholesterol, triglyceride, and phospholipid, and the extent of aortic atherosclerosis was shown to be partially dependent on mean plasma cholesterol concentration. A second group of eight dogs were fed a diet identical with the first except for the replacement of 4 per cent hydrogenated coconut oil by 4 per cent safflower oil. Despite receiving the same amounts of dietary cholesterol and fat, this second group of dogs was completely protected from the atherogenic process. Plasma lipids became only slightly elevated and no induced atherosclerotic lesions were found at autopsy
>Thrombosis and thromboembolic disease associated with atherosclerosis occurred with diets containing beef tallow and lard of coconut oil but were absent in dogs fed cottonseed oil as a source of fat.

The same mechanism causing heart disease in rabbits also happens in dogs and humans. More blood cholesterol, more CHD.

[Anonymous No.19262308]

>>19262161
>>19262061
>>19262050
What a coincidence, that means eating less cholesterol and saturated fats
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9001684/
>We conclude that eggs consumption, in addition to its hypercholesterolemic effect, increases plasma and LDL oxidizability, a phenomenon which was shown to enhance the progression of atherosclerosis. The atherogenic properties may contribute to the accelerated atherosclerosis prevalent in populations with high cholesterol intake.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16904539/
>Consumption of a saturated fat reduces the anti-inflammatory potential of HDL and impairs arterial endothelial function. In contrast, the anti-inflammatory activity of HDL improves after consumption of polyunsaturated fat.

And be sure to keep your LDL cholesterol low
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28369752/
>Accumulation of excess cholesterol due to the presence of increased circulating LDL promotes endothelium dysfunction and activation, which is associated with increased production of pro-inflammatory cytokines, overexpression of adhesion molecules, chemokines and C-reactive protein (CRP), increased generation of reactive oxygen species and reduction of nitric oxide levels and bioavailability.
>According to this, lipid-lowering therapies should improve inflammation and, indeed, statins decrease circulating inflammatory markers such as CRP and improve endothelial function and plaque burden
>These observations strengthen the direct link between cholesterol and inflammation and indicate that decreasing LDL levels is one of the key goals for improving cardiovascular outcome.

You're going to follow this advice now, right?

[Anonymous No.19262324]

>>19262192
>rabbits
555-come on now
are you forgetting that its oxidized LDL causing these things? or that HDL/trig ratio gives a better assessment of heart disease than LDL alone

[Anonymous No.19262362]

>>19262324
Whether it's rabbits, dogs, cats, bird, fish, apes, or humans, it's the same mechanism. I'll take it that you accept that the plausibility is there, that you agree that LDL cholesterol increases heart disease risk, but that oxidized LDL specifically is the issue.
But, oxidized LDL goes hand in hand with LDL concentration and with the foods that increase LDL cholesterol. Less LDL and less cholesterol and SFA-rich foods mean less oxidized LDL. >>19262308
However you want to look at it, it's the same conclusion, the same dietary advice to follow.

[Anonymous No.19263261]

>>19256146
>atherosclerosis
You are B vitamin deficient and D3/K2 deficient
>nutritional yeast (fortified or not)
>1 hour upper body sunlight exposure
>Liver or K2 supplement

[Anonymous No.19263267]

>thread hss delvolved into a couple of unhealthy fatties arguing about health

[Anonymous No.19263300]

>>19256153
Bachelor lifestyle

[Anonymous No.19263332]

>>19257790
I mean long term affects are long term for a reason. You don't know what it'll cause it's the first time that tech was injected into people.

[Anonymous No.19263404]

>>19256146
Eat meat, fruit and vegetables man. That's all there is to it. Can even have dessert and drink alcohol too.

[Anonymous No.19263523]

I know an engineer in his 50s that got stents in 2000. he's been vegan since then and eats a lot of legumes. he went to Italy and offended a bunch of chefs for not wanting their olive oil on his pasta lol

[Anonymous No.19263526]

>>19256146
>i have to eat squeaky clean for the rest of my life

it's over

[Anonymous No.19263563]

>>19257853
Cholesterol is an important hormone, not something to be avoided. If you don't eat it, your body produces it on its own. Eating saturated fats does not increase your cholesterol. The more dietary cholesterol you eat, the less your body produces, and vice versa. Here's a good video on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNGRB14TTE

[Anonymous No.19263565]

>>19263523
I thought olive oil was le healthy though

[Anonymous No.19263568]

>>19257902
Why has heart disease skyrocketed while saturated fast consumption plummeted in the 80 years since vegetable oils started being used in food?

[Anonymous No.19263570]

>>19263563

Dr. Sten Ekberg is the man.

I wonder what he recommends for people with higher caloric requirements (like physical laborers or something) because I've watched videos on what he eats and he'll mention like a salmon salad with greens and tomatoes or something Lol.

Not things that really fuel you up to expend a lot of energy

[Anonymous No.19263573]

>>19263568
Feel like I remember seeing some book or PDF on that subject. you wouldn't to happen to know what it is would you?

[Anonymous No.19263596]

>>19263568
> while saturated fast consumption plummeted
Has it?

[Anonymous No.19263611]

>>19263596
animal fats were usurped by much cheaper vegetable oils when they were approved by the FDA.
>>19263573
can't really recommend a single book on the subject, but if you google "vegetable oil heart disease" you'll find all kinds of studies on the subject.

[Anonymous No.19263619]

>>19263611
>animal fats were usurped by much cheaper vegetable oils when they were approved by the FDA
Has it? Your graph is incomplete. Other sources of saturated fat, such as cheese, have gone up.

[Anonymous No.19263625]

>>19263619
i'm not immediately able to find any graphs that include cheese.

[Anonymous No.19263640]

>>19263563
>Cholesterol is an important hormone, not something to be avoided. If you don't eat it, your body produces it on its own.
This isn't news to cardiologists, man. Everyone knows cholesterol has vital functions, we produce it for a reason, but of course it's like anything else: there is a safe amount and an unsafe amount. Just like glucose is a vital constituent of the blood, too high blood sugar will put you in a coma. Too much cholesterol will cause cholesterol-rich plaques to develop in the arteries over time.
>Eating saturated fats does not increase your cholesterol. The more dietary cholesterol you eat, the less your body produces, and vice versa. Here's a good video on the topic
Rather than a youtube video, here's an academic source of ~400 tightly controlled experiments.
https://www.bmj.com/content/314/7074/112.long
The results are so consistent that they've made an equation to predict the effect of saturated fats on cholesterol levels
Δ Cholesterol (mg/dl) = 2.16ΔS − 1.65ΔP + 0.068ΔCmg/day

How else do you think people end up with elevated cholesterol? You can't both say "it's important, don't avoid it" and "it can't get any higher anyway so don't worry." What is the safe amount?

[Anonymous No.19263659]

>>19263625
You didn't try too hard then. Google "US cheese consumption over time."

[Anonymous No.19263688]

>>19263659
you can't really use this graph in the context of the others I posted because different cheeses have wildly different saturated fat contents. Yogurt is probably one of the most popular cheese products out there and it has next to none. To make this useful to compare to the others, you'd have to break that out.

[Anonymous No.19263694]

>>19263659
>>19263688
pic related for example. even the worst cheeses listed are ~1/5 saturated fat, so that ~25lb delta in cheese consumption is really a ~5lb delta in saturated fat.

[Anonymous No.19263704]

>>19263688
>Yogurt is probably one of the most popular cheese products out there and it has next to none.
Yogurt isn't cheese, and separately, its consumption has apparently gone up "five-fold."
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=105777
Yogurt also isn't naturally non-fat, it comes in whole milk version too.

You are ignoring most sources of saturated fat and making a statement based on incomplete data.

[Anonymous No.19263713]

>>19263611
I found it

https://www.westonaprice.org/oiling-of-america-in-new-york/#gsc.tab=0

See this is good why I autistically save shit.

[Anonymous No.19263721]

>>19263713
Is this the sort of source you get all of your diet information from?

How much education did you have in nutrition beforehand?

[Anonymous No.19263725]

>>19263704
>You are ... making a statement based on incomplete data.
>Yogurt isn't cheese

[Anonymous No.19263726]

>>19263725
Yes.

[Anonymous No.19263753]

>>19263568
milk/cheese/red meat/butter/desserts are not in your potato chips but they're in everything else most people eat dude.

[Anonymous No.19263755]

>>19263753

[Anonymous No.19263759]

>>19263755
yes, plant oils are used in cooking processes for just about everything, especially snacks and junk food, but the actual foods that people consume are higher in saturated fat, at higher amounts. cheese/milk/red meat/cured meats/butter/desserts have never been more consumed and at higher amounts than now.

[Anonymous No.19263765]

>>19263759
>cheese/milk/red meat/cured meats/butter/desserts
all of those are animal-based (read: largely saturated) fats.

[Anonymous No.19263770]

>>19263755
>>19263611
>>19263625
even this says plant sources of saturated fat quadrupled. don't you have a total amount statistic, not just certain sources that don't represent a full diet or give actual grams eaten?

[Anonymous No.19263807]

>>19263568
heart disease has been falling off in the developed world since the 70s, about the time that animal based fats hit rock bottom on this chart >>19263755
kek seethe

[Anonymous No.19263814]

>>19263807
And with the introduction of cholesterol lowering drugs

[Anonymous No.19263818]

>>19262308
No, it means stop consuming foods that cause inflammation in the first place (legumes, seed oils, refined sugars, grains, most vegetables).

[Anonymous No.19263821]

>>19263818
> foods that cause inflammation in the first place (legumes, seed oils, refined sugars, grains, most vegetables).

[Anonymous No.19263843]

>>19256146
Seed oils, linolenic acid specifically is what destroys your body and causes plack and heartattacks. Doctors will gaslight you about this.
Eat clean, no processed shit and absolutely no seed oils ever.
Make sure the food you eat is not some factory farmed garbage, eat local, grow stuff yourself.

[Anonymous No.19263845]

>>19263818
Grains and legumes are very potent sources of energy though. What do you suggest instead?

[Anonymous No.19263847]

>>19263843
>plack
Well you seem to know your stuff. I won't require any evidence at all.

[Anonymous No.19263850]

>>19263843
>Seed oils, linolenic acid specifically is what destroys your body

What about whole natural seeds, like Flaxseed, chia, sunflower seeds etc.

Are they also harmful or just the extracted oil?

[Anonymous No.19263852]

>>19256497
>>19256633
Processed seed oils are the worst of them all, they are the cornerstone of modern heart disease. Other than that, just eat clean food and leave all processed shit in the store.
And fast every now and then, far too many people forget about this. 24h, 72h and work up to 7 day fast once or twice a year.

[Anonymous No.19263867]

>>19263847
Thank you anon, I hope my insight was helpful to you.
>>19263850
Well think about it like this, few tablespoons of sunflower oil requires upwards of 3000 seeds to produce. Would you ever eat that many? No. Unless you're a gopnik you won't eat that many in a decade.
Thats the idea, eat seeds/nuts and the like, nothing wrong with them in reasonable amounts.
Same applies to fruit juice, would you just randomly eat 5 apples? Unlikely, but a glass of apple juice certainly takes that and more + its nothing but the juice so its just basically sugar water. Fruits eaten as they are, are just fine and don't even spike your insuling the same as the juice.

Its not rocket science, seed oils like rape/canola were fucking ship engine lubricants for goodness sake, processed shit like that is the farthest thing from natural. They are not food, they are not for human consumption and they have zero nutritional benefit to humans, quite the opposite in fact.
People who go reeeeeeee lard and meat bad are just retarded. We ate nothing but meat and fat for a million years and were just fine. Only modern retarded humans managed to not only ruin our jaws/teeth with refined grains but also fuck with our perfectly working hearts for no other reason than greed.

[Anonymous No.19263897]

>>19262045
If authority can't be trusted because of no moral code then alternative theories can't be trusted because they are singular individuals that hoard proof in their favor and vehemently deny any "real" opposition exists.

[Anonymous No.19263923]

>>19256890
it can't hurt to read a book but find one that suits your temperament

[Anonymous No.19263930]

>>19263923
The scope of the things I can do to affect my own cardiovascular health is so limited and almost universal with the entire western world which is spiking high on cardiovascular diseases, I don't understand the need to read an entire book that's going to be generalizing heavily and obviously not customize to me as a person.
I guess your reply will be along the lines of "then stay ignorant retard" but I already got my answer elsewhere by now.

[Anonymous No.19263975]

>>19256146
Don't smoke, don't eat seed oil, don't eat loads of sugar, get good sleep, manage stress. There I've just solved heart disease

[Anonymous No.19264297]

>>19262308
Fails to control for oxidation due to different cooking methods

Also fails to explain why burning fat--necessary for weight loss--also raises LDL

>which is associated with
>should
>indicate

>advice

[Anonymous No.19264302]

>>19263845
You forgot sugar.

Sugar gives me a solid 30 minutes of energy, can't sit still sugar sugar sugar

[Anonymous No.19264310]

>>19263850
Whole natural seeds are great, especially if not roasted. PUFAs are healthy IF maintained at low temps and consumed as part of the whole food. Or at most cold pressed.

The problem is that most PUFAs aren't consumed that way. As other anon mentioned, if you're consuming seed oil as part of 3000 seeds, you're getting a shitton of protein, fiber, and minerals your metabolism can use. And you'd get full on that instead of garbage. Again most people don't eat that way.

[Anonymous No.19264311]

>>19262308
Why in the fuck would I follow the advice of specific "studies" instead of following what feels right to me? Are you a fucking moron? Heart disease is a recent thing. So is processed food. Simple as then, just avoid processed food.

[Anonymous No.19264320]

>>19263897
>they are singular individuals that hoard proof in their favor and vehemently deny any "real" opposition exists
You just pulled that shit right out of your ass. There are plenty of individuals attempting to get to the bottom of plenty of matters.

[Anonymous No.19264324]

>>19263807
The drop in heart disease also coincides with the decline of disco. There's little your rock bottom chart captures ha rekt u

[Anonymous No.19264350]

>>19264311
it's your decision to be an illiterate barefoot moron operating on hippie logic

[Anonymous No.19264377]

>dad just survived a heart attack at 60
>his dad died from one in his late 50s
its over for me

[Anonymous No.19264428]

>>19264377
Just start getting your lipids checked every year or so around 30, there’s a pretty good chance you dodge coronary artery disease if you catch it early

[Anonymous No.19264438]

glad you’re still with us, anon. That sucks. Maybe it’s genetic? I know people who smoked and ate like shit and lived until 70-80

Did you work out at all? I’ve tried avoiding oils besides avocado oil and olive but it’s hard to do

[Anonymous No.19264442]

What kind of oil would you cook food with?

[Anonymous No.19264460]

>>19264428
That's what my dad's been doing, plus working out
I just hope when my time comes I'm close to an ER

[Anonymous No.19264476]

>>19256146
Try to get into weekly fasting to get your weight down. Do a 48 hour fast every week. Also avoid the seed oil Jew.

[Anonymous No.19264482]

>>19263640
>muh study
Your studies all fail to control for other factors such as overall diet and level of physical activity. If you eat lots of saturated fats AND a bunch of other unhealthy shit, and you never get off your ass, yeah sure, your cholesterol levels will probably go up. If you live like a human was meant to live, you will not have a problem.

With that said, the supposed link between high cholesterol levels and CDV events has been debunked over the past decade with many studies showing that it's an extremely weak, if not non-existent predictor of heart attacks and strokes. Even the official diet guidelines which are normally way behind this stuff have removed their daily cholesterol limit.

[Anonymous No.19264495]

>>19264442
In order from most to least healthy:
>Grass-fed tallow
>Grass-fed butter
>Duck fat
>Extra virgin olive oil
>Virgin coconut oil
>Virgin avocado oil
>Lard (from a healthy source)
>Chicken fat

The reason I stress grass-fed cow fat is because the diet of a cow makes a huge difference in its fatty acid composition, particularly regarding the omega-3/6 ratio. Pic related. Excess omega-6's is probably the biggest single factor that makes the western diet so unhealthy.

[Anonymous No.19264514]

>>19264442
>>19264495
Also this chart can be used as a rough guideline, but keep in mind that anything processed in a factory has the additional problem of being rancid/oxidized, and in some cases chemically contaminated

[Anonymous No.19264519]

>>19264514
Thanks. I’ll t try to buy grass fed now. I’ve limited fast food to once a month. Pretty much just prepare my own food now

[Anonymous No.19264556]

>>19263640
New science just dropped, time to update your paradigm, boomer

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2790055
>Findings In this meta-analysis of 21 randomized clinical trials in primary and secondary prevention that examined the efficacy of statins in reducing total mortality and cardiovascular outcomes, there was significant heterogeneity but also reductions in the absolute risk of 0.8% for all-cause mortality, 1.3% for myocardial infarction, and 0.4% for stroke in those randomized to treatment with statins compared with control, with relative risk reductions of 9%, 29%, and 14%, respectively. A meta-regression was inconclusive regarding the association between the magnitude of statin-induced LDL-C reduction and all-cause mortality, myocardial infarction, or stroke.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30198808/
>Our search for falsifications of the cholesterol hypothesis confirms that it is unable to satisfy any of the Bradford Hill criteria for causality and that the conclusions of the authors of the three reviews are based on misleading statistics, exclusion of unsuccessful trials and by ignoring numerous contradictory observations.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/doubt-cast-on-wisdom-of-targeting-bad-cholesterol-to-curb-heart-disease-risk/
>Because LDL cholesterol is considered essential for the development of cardiovascular disease, “it seems intuitive and logical to target [it],” say the researchers.
>But they add: “Considering that dozens of [randomised controlled trials] of LDL-cholesterol reduction have failed to demonstrate a consistent benefit, we should question the validity of this theory.”
>And they conclude: “In most fields of science the existence of contradictory evidence usually leads to a paradigm shift or modification of the theory in question, but in this case the contradictory evidence has been largely ignored, simply because it doesn’t fit the prevailing paradigm.”

[Anonymous No.19264629]

It is that simple, my beloved OP. Just look up where in the world people live the longest and copy their diet. In Sardinia, for example, there is a big number of centenarians.

[Anonymous No.19264775]

>>19264629
There is some truth to this but genetics also plays a role, not only in overall longevity, but also the optimal diet for an individual. For example Europeans have better tolerance to things like lactose, root veggies and wheat, whereas east Asians and Inuits might be more prone to allergic reactions to those foods and be better suited for a more carnivore/rice/fermented soy based diet. That's one factor that a lot of studies completely overlook, which renders their results dubious if not useless.

[Anonymous No.19264776]

>>19263565
better than butter, but oil is oil babe

[Anonymous No.19264785]

>>19264776
>better than butter
Nah. The best quality butter is healthier than the best quality olive oil, and the worst quality butter is better than the worst quality olive oil. Moreover there's so much corruption within the olive oil industry that various brands might be selling you some other oil labeled as olive oil, or cutting it with canola oil or soybean oil. You have no idea what you're really buying unless you see it being produced with your own eyes, which has lead me to avoiding it in general. I also like to eat local, and it's easy to find local butter.

[Anonymous No.19264791]

>>19264775

You're right. So the recommendation should be to copy the diet of a region where people of your own ethnicity live the longest

[Anonymous No.19264795]

>>19256146
>person of science
so, not an actual scientist or doctor, just one of those self proclaimed gurus of health

[Anonymous No.19264799]

>>19264482
>Your studies all fail to control for other factors such as overall diet and level of physical activity.
Do you understand what a metabolic ward experiment is?
Stop disagreeing until you know what you're disagreeing with

[Anonymous No.19264804]

>>19256989
>LDL isn't toxic until you introduce X, Y, or Z
But wouldn't lowering LDL lower the risk of developing toxins? You can lower your exposure to X, Y, and Z, but you can never completely eliminate them, so why not try to lower LDL which also lowers your risk?

[Anonymous No.19264811]

>>19264804
>so why not try to lower LDL which also lowers your risk?
No it doesn't. See: >>19264556

[Anonymous No.19264829]

>>19256146
I'll chip in by recommending you eat 2-3 crushed raw garlic cloves a day(it is vital that you eat it raw and that you crush it). I suffer from HBP and this has singlehandedly helped me improve a lot, been doing it for a few years now. If you find it too spicy or difficult to swallow you can submerge it in a water for a few minutes and then try it, that should help lessen the spicy feeling.

I cant really explain the science behind it(although a quick google search can help with that) but basically crushing raw garlic creates a chemical that is great for heart health and it must be raw because applying heat destroys it.

It will unfortunately give you some degree of garlic odor, but thats a bearable side effect, mostly. I also eat a lot of berries(blue berries, strawberries and cherries to a lesser extent-the non sweetened type of course). Theres also oyster mushrooms, although those you must cook really well/thoroughly to get the benefits. Other than that do what other anons have suggested, cutting out sugars is a big one and drink a lot of water, exercise with moderation and you should see some improvements man, best of luck to you.

[Anonymous No.19264844]

>>19264556
These are about cholesterol-lowering medications specifically, which have varying degrees of success and side-effects that can be lost if you don't look at the studies individually. The third one (authored by lifelong cholesterol skeptic Uffe Ravnskov) mentions the Framingham Heart Study as an example of LDL not showing significance with heart disease. If you look at the study itself, it says this
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3560398/
>Under age 50 years, cholesterol levels are directly related with 30-year overall and CVD mortality; overall death increases 5% and CVD death 9% for each 10 mg/dL. After age 50 years there is no increased overall mortality with either high or low serum cholesterol levels.
>Under age 50 years these data suggest that having a very low cholesterol level improves longevity. After age 50 years the association of mortality with cholesterol values is confounded by people whose cholesterol levels are falling—perhaps due to diseases predisposing to death.
This is a common finding, where illness and its effects (weight loss, lack of appetite) cause a drop in LDL. It's not a challenge to the Lipid Hypothesis.

You have to have a little knowledge of the subject if you're going to try to interpret data for yourself

[Anonymous No.19264851]

>>19264350
Doing as you're told by authority figures who seem to be making compelling arguments makes you neither intelligent nor educated. In fact it does the opposite.

[Anonymous No.19264864]

>>19264804
LDL is merely a buffer shielding other tissues from more direct oxidative stress.

[Anonymous No.19264866]

>>19264844
You should really consider actually reading the studies linked instead of cherry picking two lines from one study and dismissing everything else that disproves your bullshit theory.

>If high LDL-C causes CVD, LDL-C of untreated patients with CVD should be higher than normal. However, in a large American study [Citation20] including almost 140,000 patients with acute myocardial infarction (AMI), their LDL-C at the time of admission to hospital was actually lower than normal. In another study with the same finding [Citation21], the authors decided to lower the patients’ LDL-C even more, but at a follow-up 3 years later, total mortality among those with LDL-C below 105 mg/dl (2 mmol/l) was twice as high compared to those with a higher LDL-C, even after adjustment for confounding variables (14.8% vs. 7.1%, p = 0.005).

>It has been suggested that inverse causation explains the inverse association between mortality and LDL-C; for example, that cancer and infections lower LDL-C.

>A more likely explanation is that CVD may be caused by infections and that LDL directly inactivates almost all types of microorganisms and their toxic products [Citation12,Citation22,Citation23]. Consistent with that finding is the observation that healthy individuals with low LDL-C have a significantly increased risk of both infectious diseases [Citation23] and cancer [Citation24]; the latter possibly because microorganisms have been linked to almost 20% of all cancer types [Citation25].

But lets forget about science for a moment. Saturated fats (animal fats) have been a basis of the human diet for hundreds of thousands of years. They are the basis of many other mammals' diets as well. Anyone telling you to stop eating the natural human diet which we evolved on, and instead eat factory produced slop that has only been in the human food chain for a hundred years or so is a complete fucking moron and should be ignored.

[Anonymous No.19264867]

>>19257848
is it really; i'm american but i guess i didn't grow up american in my home so i'm used to cooking everyday besides maybe once on the weekend and the idea of eating out everyday is really weird

[Anonymous No.19264928]

>>19263845
Basmati rice seems to be one of the least bad in terms of having arsenic and other runoff poisons that so much rice seems to have. White rice is better than brown rice as well as even though removing the germ removes the nutrients. However, removing the germ also removes the phytic acid and antinutrients, so it makes the rice easier to digest. Basically, white rice is made into pure calories without any micronutrients, but it's still better than causing gut dysfunction by eating the germ.

[Anonymous No.19264946]

>>19264928
Brown rice being "healthy" is a modern western myth. Same deal with whole grains. It's cheaper to produce but they mark the price up and market it as "health food", and the slaves buy it up.

[Anonymous No.19264953]

>>19264866
>You should really consider actually reading the studies linked
Likewise, and more than reading the words, understand them. Don't respond to someone discussing the data you posted as "cherry-picking" and just move on to the next one either. You posted it, defend your cherry.
>>If high LDL-C causes CVD, LDL-C of untreated patients with CVD should be higher than normal. However, in a large American study [Citation20] including almost 140,000 patients with acute myocardial infarction (AMI), their LDL-C at the time of admission to hospital was actually lower than normal
>a follow-up 3 years later, total mortality among those with LDL-C below 105 mg/dl (2 mmol/l) was twice as high compared to those with a higher LDL-C
This paper is arguing for lowering the number for what we considered "normal LDL" as >100mg/dl is still too high. Notice that the people with the lowest LDL and ideal HDL only made up 1.4% of the cases. Even those with low HDL fared better with low LDL.
>41.5% had LDL <100 mg/dL and 12.5% had LDL <70 mg/dL
Does that give you pause at all? Remember that you posted it

The other study deals with all-cause mortality in a patient group where those with lower LDL were those with a worse health history who had required cholesterol-lowering drugs, and the authors repeat what I said previously
>Similar findings regarding the association of
low serum cholesterol and poor outcome have been reported for elderly individuals, end-stage renal failure patients undergoing dialysis, cancer patients, and individuals with AIDS [18–23]. It is possible that low LDL may be associated with illnesses other than cardiovascular disease that lead to higher all-cause mortality.

[Anonymous No.19264965]

>>19264953
You're really grasping at straws here. The moral of the story is that worrying about your LDL-C levels from eating saturated fat is counterproductive. Stop telling people that saturated fats are unhealthy you fucking mong. Perpetuating that myth is literally killing people (like OP).

[Anonymous No.19264970]

>>19264866
>But lets forget about science for a moment. Saturated fats (animal fats) have been a basis of the human diet for hundreds of thousands of years.
That's still a scientific matter, just a different one. If you want to steer away from biology and anything relative to this thread and just talk anthropology, you still have to have evidence to say what the human diet (who? where?) has been for hundreds of years. It's still not a matter of intuition, it requires even more study and uncertainty. As someone who has done some research into it, I can tell you the estimates are all over the place.

[Anonymous No.19264971]

>>19264965
>You're really grasping at straws here.

[Anonymous No.19264974]

>>19264953
>defend your cherry
ur a weird prom date

[Anonymous No.19264975]

>>19264970
*hundreds of thousands

[Anonymous No.19265000]

>>19264970
>you still have to have evidence to say what the human diet (who? where?) has been for hundreds of years.
Maybe if you want to get into the specifics, but we can say with certainty that humans have been eating meat and by extension saturated fats since we left the tree tops. We can also say with certainty that there is no natural diet that could contain nearly as much PUFAs as the average westernern today consumes. And yes, there are even studies on modern day tribal people that confirm this. But I'm sick of this "muh science" nonsense. Diet is not that difficult of a thing to figure out when you get rid of the factories and processing plants.

[Anonymous No.19265019]

>>19265000
>Maybe if you want to get into the specifics, but we can say with certainty that humans have been eating meat and by extension saturated fats since we left the tree tops
I think the specifics are pretty important
>We can also say with certainty that there is no natural diet that could contain nearly as much PUFAs as the average westernern today consumes
To be fair, saturated fats weren't as common as you think either. Game meat is not fatty.

Now, if you want to form your diet based on what you think sounds cool, separate from its effects on health, that's fine. I'm only arguing the accuracy you're trying to convince other people of.

[Anonymous No.19265035]

>>19265019
>Game meat is not fatty.
The traditional Inuit diet consists of almost entirely of whales which contains tons of saturated fats. But that aside, most wild game still has a large amount of fat. You're just thinking of the muscle meat, which is indeed quite lean for larger animals. But there is still a ton of fat in those animals surrounding the organs and muscles that were not only eaten, but essential for survival. And then there's also fish and seafood which is often quite fatty.

[Anonymous No.19265039]

>>19263867
Cold-pressed juices are probably fine. But you should ideally press them yourself. Most "fruit juice" at the grocery store can barely be considered juice at all and is as you said just sugar water. That being said, Simply Orange and Simply Apple have 100% Cold-pressed organic juices for sale and besides being in plastic bottles seem pretty good.

[Anonymous No.19265055]

>>19265035
Are you an ethnic inuit?
>And then there's also fish and seafood which is often quite fatty.
Watch out for those fish PUFAs, hoss

[Anonymous No.19265063]

>>19265055
>Are you an ethnic inuit?
No. Did you miss the rest of my post? Seriously, go look up how much pure saturated fat you can get out of a single moose or deer.

>Watch out for those fish PUFAs, hoss
Yeah, I once started eating sardines every day for months and I became ill in strange ways. Probably from too much PUFAs.

[Anonymous No.19265073]

>>19265063
>No. Did you miss the rest of my post?
I'm just confused why you would bring them up if you aren't related to them and don't live in the arctic tundra. When determining what the ancestral human diet is, who's ancestors are you going to look at and where in the world? In another part of the world they were living on spuds and tubers.

[Anonymous No.19265087]

Why would you make the broad claim that saturated fat is bad for all humans if you were then going to start pointing out that it affects different ethnicities in different ways? That's some Jewish goalpost shifting right there.

Considering the first medically documented heart attack in a live human happened in 1912 despite humans eating animal products long before then, common sense would dictate that animal products aren't the cause and it's something new that appeared on the scene shortly before.

>https://crisco.com/our-heritage/
>OUR HERITAGE
>1911-Present

Oof!

[Anonymous No.19265093]

>>19265073
>I'm just confused why you would bring them up if you aren't related to them and don't live in the arctic tundra.
Because they're an example of a people who eat a diet largely consisting of saturated fats and still live full long healthy lives.

> In another part of the world they were living on spuds and tubers.
Yes. Diets vary throughout the world and throughout time. But the takeaway is that humans have been able to thrive on a huge variance of diets, including diets with high or moderate saturated fat intake. The only diet that humans have not been able to thrive in is our current western diet that turns everyone into slugs and gives people heart attacks at 30.

[Anonymous No.19265102]

>>19265087
> if you were then going to start pointing out that it affects different ethnicities in different ways?
I didn't, I'm talking anthropology with you and trying to figure out what your basis for even that is since you favor it over talking nutrition science and biology. Don't you have a properly developed belief about anything?
>the first medically documented heart attack in a live human happened in 1912
Kek, what?

[Anonymous No.19265147]

>>19265093
>Because they're an example of a people who eat a diet largely consisting of saturated fats and still live full long healthy lives.
They weren't known to live long healthy lives in the first place, but again why is this part of your worldview of ancient human diets? They're a modern people unrelated to you living on the fringes of human civilization. They exist, yeah, but is this what you meant when you were talking about human diets from hundreds of thousands of years ago? Or is this another attempt to shift the discussion to a new unrelated topic?
>Yes. Diets vary throughout the world and throughout time. But the takeaway is that humans have been able to thrive on a huge variance of diets, including diets with high or moderate saturated fat intake. The only diet that humans have not been able to thrive in is our current western diet that turns everyone into slugs and gives people heart attacks at 30.
Not only is life expectancy higher in the rest of Canada and the US, the life expectancy of eskimos has ironically increased since they became more westernized

[Anonymous No.19265183]

>>19265147
>but again why is this part of your worldview of ancient human diets? They're a modern people unrelated to you living on the fringes of human civilization.
Inuits are an ancient civilization. Any peoples living in the arctic have very few food options and it's almost all full of saturated fats.

>muh increase in life expectancy
You've completely discredited yourself with this comment. The only thing the increase in life expectancy proves is that we've gotten better at treating illness and keeping sick and fail people alive for longer. It has nothing to do with what foods our diets are comprised of.

[Anonymous No.19265193]

>>19265183
>You've completely discredited yourself with this comment. The only thing the increase in life expectancy proves is that we've gotten better at treating illness and keeping sick and fail people alive for longer. It has nothing to do with what foods our diets are comprised of.
You were just talking about how long-lived they are

[Anonymous No.19265196]

>>19265193
Relative to people of the same era with the same access to modern medicine. Not relative to people 10,000 years ago.

[Anonymous No.19265227]

>>19265196
You mean after they started eating doritos and coke?

[Anonymous No.19265230]

>>19265227
Thanks for conceding the debate, now stop replying

[Anonymous No.19265231]

>>19265147
Life expectancy rates have gone up largely through advances in medical science, not nutrition unless you have specific studies that prove otherwise.

[Anonymous No.19265234]

>>19265230
I'm trying to understand your point here. What version of the inuits are you talking about? The traditional inuit that had half the life expectancy of a westerner on their traditional diet or the modern inuit that eats a westernized diet and has a longer but not as long life expectancy as a westerner?

[Anonymous No.19265239]

>>19265231
So what was the point of mentioning their lives being long? They didn't have particularly long lives until they started eating like Americans

[Anonymous No.19265249]

>>19265234
Making things up isn't helping you. There are modern day Inuits that still eat traditional diets comprised of things like whale and seal. These people and their diets have been studied extensively.

> Our data show that the traditional diet is related to a better profile of cardiovascular disease risk factors and should be encouraged. Programs are needed to encourage the availability of healthy food choices for those not able to obtain traditional foods.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2777478/

There's even a name for it: The Inuit Paradox.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-inuit-paradox

[Anonymous No.19265340]

>>19265249
Alright, we'll look at this study you posted then, as I'm sure you've read it and can provide your expert insight.

What does it mean when the "traditional diet" contained less saturated fat than every other diet? It seems to contradict the point you were making, but maybe I'm just overlooking something. You've read it though so clue me in.

[Anonymous No.19265348]

>>19265340
The differences are statistically insignificant. More grasping at straws, more coping.

[Anonymous No.19265366]

>>19265348
Kek, you're the one that posted the study. What were you trying to say with it?
Don't make this the 5th argument you're forced to abandon in the thread, follow through with it.

[Anonymous No.19265547]

Jesus Christ. I'm not sure what's worse, this screeching retard thread or the constant Indian webm spam. Kill yourselves.

[Anonymous No.19265607]

>>19264785
>Nah
sropped reading there.

[Anonymous No.19265656]

>>19265366
Are you retarded or something? The study shows that saturated fats can be and are part of a healthy diet.

[Anonymous No.19265660]

>>19256434
>while israel is the biggest consume of seed oils and vegetables and they have the highest heart diseases in the world.
you're lying
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/

[Anonymous No.19265850]

>>19265607
EVOO is much higher in linoleic acid than butter, albeit not as much as refined seed oils. As that anon said in his post, you also don't really know the quality of olive oil you're buying (like if it's cut with seed oils) whereas if you buy grass-fed, grass-finished butter it HAS to say 100% grass-fed and finished (be careful with that too though, as partial pastured cows can allow a company to legally say they were "grass-fed" while also shoving corn into them). And before you cite the Mediterranean diets and higher life expectancies of Greeks and Italians, keep in mind that almost everything is made locally there and therefore it's so easy to source which oil makers are legit and which ones use dubious methods and olives.

A good rule of thumb is "if people didn't eat it 150 years ago, then neither should you". This goes with factory-farmed food of ANY kind.

[Anonymous No.19265900]

>>19265660
Yeah, I'm not sure where he got "Israel is the largest consumer of seed oils in the world from and they have the highest heart attacks". He's right about the French though.

[Anonymous No.19266214]

>>19265850
>EVOO
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.19266537]

I got life insurance and they did blood work and such, and they said everything looked fine except I had high HDL and LDL levels. How concerned should I be? I love savory foods, I've started cutting out processed meats, eating less cheese and eggs. I consume a lot of rice, bread, milk, tomatoes, and meat, roasted chicken thighs have been heating the spot.

[Anonymous No.19266681]

>>19256163
>your fat
>eat more meat
Lmao americans. Dodging responsibility like they dodge salads

[Anonymous No.19266701]

I know a health freak who got a heart attack at 27 despite being as nutty as the "professionals" in here.
>was he vexed
Well, they announced they could put it into food 6 months ago but the government would never tamper with their citizens health, so no

Oh and it was 8 years ago so yeah, no, he wasn't vaxed

[Anonymous No.19266805]

>>19266701
some people just have shit genetics

[Anonymous No.19266842]

>>19266701
Honestly would like to see what he was into, was it ray peat type shit? There's him and hundreds of different types of alt diet stuff out there, and it definitely wasn't as mainstream as it is now so the info was a lot more shakey back then.
Genetics could be a big part too in any case

[Anonymous No.19266880]

>>19265656
No it doesn't. It's not even making a statement that anybody in the study was healthy, it's comparing groups relative to each other.

[Anonymous No.19266887]

>>19266880
I can tell this is the resident vegan shill by how low xis IQ is