/ck/ - Food & Cooking

[Anonymous No.15047973]

>"umami"
can we just fuck off with this term and just call it savory already? it's not like every time a cooking video says umami, they follow it up with the definition of savory.

[Anonymous No.15047979]

>>15047973
yeah i agree

[Anonymous No.15047996]

>>15047973
The whole idea of five tastes is retarded anyways. It's obvious that the tongue can detect more than the 5 flavors people always talk about.

[Anonymous No.15048004]

>>15047996
those "more flavors" that you speak fit under a subcategory of the main 5.

name another type of flavor and try not to place it under one of the 5.

[Anonymous No.15048028]

>>15048004
alcahol
spiciness
the taste of copper
whatever is making the passionfruit la croix I am drinking taste like passionfruit. because it is not sweet or sour or salty or bitter or savory.

The human tongue can detect hundreds of different molecules and grouping them into five arbitrary categories is asinine. We don't talk about the 5 basic smells or 5 basic sounds.

[Anonymous No.15048029]

>>15048004
biltong

[Anonymous No.15048034]

>>15048029
>shitty
i guess that IS another flavor anon

[Anonymous No.15048045]

>>15048004
>>15048028
gluten

[Anonymous No.15048051]

>>15048028
alcohol = bitter

spiciness is merely an increased temperature sensation that is usually added to savory/umami dishes, sometimes sweet foods are made to be spicy.

metallic taste would fit under bitter

I have never had a passionfruit la croix, it probably has bitter notes.

>>15048045
gluten = umami/savory

[Anonymous No.15048132]

>>15048051
I can name something else that's bitter about getting BTFO
You literally have no argument lol

[Anonymous No.15048170]

>>15048132
why are you being antagonistic? I didn't do anything to you.

[Anonymous No.15048229]

>>15048051
theres something bitter here and its not metal lol

[Anonymous No.15048424]

Good afternoon. You already know who I am. That fragrant emulsion of chicken stock, carrots, potatoes, and celery—derived from your family's culinary tradition.
Unbeknownst to you, your only surviving descendant 200 years from now will develop an addiction to something that will be known as the World Wide Web. His aversion to reproductive proclivities will fail to result in offspring, and effectively end a blood lineage that had prevailed since the beginning of human existence.
But do not despair. The family recipe that you used to make me will be celebrated as a national staple, and I will survive for generations far into the future. Only I will prevail, your creation, your soup son.

[Anonymous No.15048453]

>>15047973
Can you fuck off with your translation?
It's called umami because it was first described by a nip.

Why it seems like it blast your ass that people know something, you autistic loser?

[Anonymous No.15048462]

>>15047973
Anon getting so raging because he can't possibly cope with using one single non-english word

[Anonymous No.15048467]

>>15047973
>Pollo
can we just fuck off with this term and just call it chicken already? it's not like every time a cooking video says pollo, they follow it up with chicken.

[Anonymous No.15048520]

>>15047973
I agree, if only because it doesn't lend itself to adjectivization (umami-y sounds retarded)

[Anonymous No.15048597]

I fucked u mami OP

[Anonymous No.15048716]

>>15048520
It's already an adjective though.

[Anonymous No.15048761]

>>15048004
cilantro flavor

[Anonymous No.15048766]

>>15048004
what flavor would you call asafoetida

[Anonymous No.15048768]

>>15048004
which of the five is cheese?

[Anonymous No.15048778]

>>15048716
So is the noun umam? No because that's retarded. This is a word from another language. We don't translate the other flavors so why do we translate this one? Savory it is.

[Anonymous No.15048792]

>>15048453
The word savory has existed in the English dictionary since the 1200s, and it originally comes from latin.

[Anonymous No.15048797]

>>15048462
Why use a non-English word for an English word that already exists and has been used in the English language since the 1200s?

[Anonymous No.15048801]

>>15048761
added to dishes to enhance umami/savory

>>15048766
probably bitter on its own i never tried it in isolation. probably used to enhance umami or sweet dishes.

>>15048768
umami

[Anonymous No.15048823]

>>15048801
so cheese and tomatoes and beef are all the same flavor?

[Anonymous No.15048829]

>>15048823
Same flavor category.

[Anonymous No.15048830]

>>15047973
more like ooh mommy

[Anonymous No.15048834]

>>15048823
they fit in sub categories under umami, are you a retard who can't figure that out?

[Anonymous No.15048907]

>>15048801
are you a retard who thinks only certain parts of your tongue can taste specific flavors?

[Anonymous No.15048908]

>>15048028
based. this is the right answer.

[Anonymous No.15048925]

>>15048907
I never said that it did.
The 5 flavors is merely a categorization system that's easy to understand. It's no different to the color wheel. obviously there are large amount of colors with unique names, but we only care about 6 or 10 for simplicity's sake.

[Anonymous No.15048934]

>>15047973
Is there even a difference between salty and savory?

[Anonymous No.15048937]

>NOOOOO YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT WORD SINCE IT'S LOANED FROM JAPANESE
They discovered the taste, and it was used to describe the glutamic acid before savouriness was used. Savoury also has a different context due to its use as a term for a particular PART of a meal, and the comparison as being "salty or spicy." You're just a fucking westaboo contrarian retard.

[Anonymous No.15048945]

>>15048937
Huh?

[Anonymous No.15048958]

>>15048797
Because it's more specific

[Anonymous No.15048961]

>>15048937
Loanwords that aren't from either Romance languages or Germanic languages suck. It's better to calque it, or coin anew.

[Anonymous No.15048980]

>>15048768
italian

[Anonymous No.15048983]

>>15048961
Okay, chud

[Anonymous No.15049011]

>>15048768
Sour and umami

[Anonymous No.15049030]

>>15048778
you can have the adjective form the same as the noun form.

[Anonymous No.15049090]

>>15048028
>seven visible colors of the light spectrum
>very well defined mathematically understandable audible wavelengths
>doesn’t know that spiciness isn’t a flavor, doesn’t even have an inkling as to how it works
Based retard, you really tried

[Anonymous No.15049100]

>>15048983
>he’s a chud for not wanting to teach his kid moon runes or ooga booga words because muh progressivism

[Anonymous No.15049129]

>>15048925
cheese and beef aren't even the same color dumbass

[Anonymous No.15049188]

>>15049129
agreed, next question.

[Anonymous No.15049189]

>>15047973
sorry but pretentious faggots will always use foreign words to replace words with a direct equivalent in the language they're speaking
specially ridiculous with anglophone sóyboys since they use french words even though their mutt language is mostly french loanwords to begin with

[Anonymous No.15049191]

>>15048792
It was not described formally as a taste you dingus. .
Savory doesn't describe the same thing as umami does, autistic virgin

[Anonymous No.15049204]

>>15049191
>it just is just because
elaborate yourself further, why doesn't savory describe the same thing as umami?

[Anonymous No.15049208]

>>15049204
Because it doesn't. Read a book and lose weight.

[Anonymous No.15049230]

>>15049208
clearly you don't read what you preach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami

[Anonymous No.15049234]

>>15049191
Savoriness is the superior synonym for 旨味. Handle it.

[Anonymous No.15049242]

>>15049204
Because it original wasn't meant to described one basic flavour, so you would either

> Change the meaning of a word with an already defined semantics
> Let the people who first described it as what it is scientifically choose its name.

In either case, the thing I suggest OP is to stop being a looser that gets angry because "they cannot use that world, they are just pretentious!!! Bwahh!

>>15049230
>>15049234
You are clinically retarded. Handle it

[Anonymous No.15049257]

>>15049234
Savory it's a synonym used to describe what it is, but not the other way around.

Saying that something it's "savory" in english doesn't imply umami you mongoloid.

By using umami you just prune all the doubt about what are you talking about

Even a retard like you could understand it by now

[Anonymous No.15049261]

>>15049242
I don't think "umai taste" is a linguistic construction that's best equipped to describe only meaty mouth sensations. Faggots on this board like you would probably describe sweet as the prefered umai taste.

[Anonymous No.15049273]

>>15049257
I didn't prescribe the use of the adjective savory for saying something has savoriness in it.

[Anonymous No.15049284]

>>15047973
I have never got this, its just savory, none of these fucks speak Japanese, why say one specific word in Japanese? Everyone who says umami looks like pic related

[Anonymous No.15049286]

1. Name 1 (One) dish that is savory but not umami.

2. Name 1 (One) dish that is umami but not savory.

[Anonymous No.15049296]

can we all just agree to never use the word unctuous again

[Anonymous No.15049302]

>>15049261
>don't think "umai taste" is a linguistic construction
Yes it is Like salty, bitter, acidic and such.
It's you retards who keep telling it's not for some reason

Deal with it

[Anonymous No.15049304]

>>15049242
>>15049257
no one in the modern day uses the word savory in its original context to describe a non-dessert main dish. language is fluid and is constantly changing. savory in today's context is almost exclusively used interchangeably with the word "umami".

[Anonymous No.15049325]

>>15049304
>language is fluid and is constantly changing.
Exactly. And umami is a more specific and correct word to describe

Stop being a faggot like >>15049284 , who has inferiority complex and need to attribute negative feature to people who use a more correct word, because he is insecure like everyone who doesn't accept a new word to describe things in a more precise way.

[Anonymous No.15049342]

>>15049325
>more correct

A more correct term for someone like you is a faggot

[Anonymous No.15049344]

Furthermore, since it's a taste that's mostly contained in animalistic food (or vegetables you would serve in conjunction with staple foods), and these can best be described with the word sowl, I would use the sowlty word sowliness for a more precise term for the taste.
Sowlty certainly has more SOWL than umami, as kids say on this imageboard.

[Anonymous No.15049345]

>>15049325
savory and umami are the same thing

[Anonymous No.15049492]

Can someone explain to me what is more specific about using umami as opposed to savory? Can they also explain one dish or food that has only an umami flavor and not a savory one? A dish or food that is only savory and not umami?
Genuinely asking. I dont get it.

[Anonymous No.15049501]

>>15049342
>>15049345
Umami is a formal term for describing a specific taste.
It's ok if you want to use a less precise term because you both are fedora tippers. Let other people who cooks use a more formal term

[Anonymous No.15049514]

>>15049501
>>15049492

[Anonymous No.15049523]

>>15049501
it's ironic that you think that your preference for using a japanese term makes you not a fedora wearing neckbeard.

[Anonymous No.15049549]

>>15049492
>Can they also explain one dish or food that has only an umami flavor and not a savory one? A dish or food that is only savory and not umami?
seriously, someone just do it already

1. Name 1 (One) dish that is savory but not umami.

2. Name 1 (One) dish that is umami but not savory.

[Anonymous No.15049574]

>>15049523
It's not ironic. People on 4chan feels threatened when people uses foreign words, don't ask me why.

They subconsciously want to feel superior to normie and they make this stupid as shit thread

So answering you, it's not ironic, but common for fedora tippers here to find any excuse for feeling superior to people

>>15049549
1. Name 1 (one) cock that you didn't sucked
2. Name 1(one) sucked cock that wasn't sucked by you

[Anonymous No.15049584]

>>15049549
>>15049514
>>15049492

What do you mean by "savory"?

[Anonymous No.15049620]

>>15049584
Sweet = 甘い Amai
Salty = 塩辛い Shiokarai
Sour = サワー Sawā
Bitter = 苦い Nigai
Savory = うまみ Umami

[Anonymous No.15049627]

>>15048028
You are so fucking stupid that I hope you are sterilized eventually so you don't pass on your shit low IQ genes.

[Anonymous No.15049644]

>>15049620
So? Tell me what do you mean without using the word umami, retard

[Anonymous No.15049663]

>>15049644
savory means savory just like how sweet means sweet. I would have the same problem trying to describe sweet, salty, sour, and bitter.

[Anonymous No.15049665]

>>15049574
I don't think this thread is about feeling superior to people. It's about having an opinion on a word. Sure, it's a petty squabble, but it's still just an invitation for discussion. Not everything is a power struggle.
Taboo is a good foreign word that no person has any problem with, since it has a very involved meaning. Coining an anglo-greco-roman synonym would be very forced.
In contrast, savoriness has a very basic meaning as a 5th basic taste belonging to all sowl. Basic sensations expressed in entirely foreign lemmas is just exoticism and I don't find it very appealing.

[Anonymous No.15049678]

>>15049620
>>15049644
旨味 = Tasty Taste

[Anonymous No.15049703]

ITT:

savorychads = calm and collected anons

umamivirgins = angry people who can't make a reply with resorting to insults

[Anonymous No.15049751]

>>15049665
>I don't think this thread is about feeling superior to people
I hoped it was not the case.

People here sees other people uses the word "umami" and subconsciously project some sense of superiority in the person using the word and they become jealous.

There are no other reason to be against a word that is more precise and formal for describing something, and which was invented specifically for describing that subject of research.
>>15049678
You want me to list a "tasty" dish?
Chicken breast, there you go

Just use "umami", it's perfect for describing what you want to say

[Anonymous No.15049797]

>>15049665
>Basic sensations expressed in entirely foreign lemmas is just exoticism and I don't find it very appealing.

But sweet and bitter have the same axiomatic meaning, because they are express a some sort of feeling.

Since the 4 basic taste were easier to identify they have a word in their respective language.

Umami was more difficult to isolate, and it was describing in scientific research during modern times, a time when we are perfectly able to lend words from other languages that describe new concepts.
.
Umami is not different that sweet as a concept

[Anonymous No.15049802]

>>15049751
It being more precise and formal is an opinion you hold, you silly. It's not a given axiom of truth.
Heck, the formal word would probably be glutamic, since it points to the specific compounds involved in the taste.
The word 旨味 was invented on the spot by a japanese researcher, and it's literally a stand-in word. It just means "tasty taste", the worst possible coinage as it doesn't even refer to it's main presence in savoury or sowl.

[Anonymous No.15049805]

>>15049797
Sweet and bitter aren't utterly foreign words. What do you think English is: a pidgin?

[Anonymous No.15049836]

>>15049802
>It being more precise and formal is an opinion you hold, you silly. It's not a given axiom of truth.

The words was used in the paper in which they
> Isolate it as a concept
> Isolate the substance responsable
> Describe the mechanism involved in perceiving it

But pleas continue insisting on being a retard.

>>15049805
>Sweet and bitter aren't utterly foreign words
Nor is umami in this context.

It's just that you know comes from Japan and sounds like a Japanese words but having no primitive radical in the target language it's not more a foreign word.

Let's say bitterness was not a concept untill 2020.

Now a english researching does all the things that the nip did for the umami and come up with the word "bitter"

Now what the fuck do you think other countries will do
> Invent a new random word, since it's a new concepts
> Adopt the new terms (with minor adjusting for pronunciation)

Guess how it works retard

[Anonymous No.15049848]

>>15049836
Savoriness is a synonym, and you can't force people to speak like you want them to because of your exoticism fetish.

[Anonymous No.15049855]

>>15049836
Furthermore, umami is entirely composed of japanese lemmas, umai and -mi. It definitely is utterly foreign to the english language, just like blyat or soka.

[Anonymous No.15049858]

>>15049836
What I'd like to know is why you're letting scientists come up with the name for this particular quality and they've chosen the most shit possible name for it:
>旨 = uma = tasty
>味 = mi = taste
And you're just okay with that? Tasty-taste is perfectly acceptable term for this?

[Anonymous No.15049861]

>>15049836
Also, you haven't even given one single reason for why umami is a better word other than:
"A foreign language coined it first and therefore everyone should use it as originally used in that language."
I call that laziness.

[Anonymous No.15049869]

>that umamifag who can't make a reply without calling everyone a retard
no one wonder people don't want to use the word umami, you guys are both angry and pretentious

[Anonymous No.15049891]

>>15049855
>>15049858


It has no primitive in english, not in the original language, because nobody come up with random new words.

Once the phenomenon is described other languages takes the new word which describes a foreign concept in thei language and again maybe adjust for some

>>15049848
I'm not forcing anyone, you can keep acting like a retard for any kind of nationalistic reason, i don't care
You are just a retard, and you have to be aware of it.

>>15049861
>I call that laziness
That's exactly how things works.

Every word that in english came from latin, or every other new species of fruits as an example, took their original word and adapt it to sound easier to pronounce.

>>15049869
Because you are a retard. Like "umami", i tend to call things by their name, hence retards

[Anonymous No.15049900]

>>15049891
>>15049836
seethe

[Anonymous No.15049931]

>>15047973
Fucking weebs, fuck off its savory.

[Anonymous No.15049977]

>>15049891
Are you Japanese? Why are you so fervent in displacing savoriness from English, which is a primitive describing the taste?
Japanese can't even describe something as savoury in their own language from what I can tell. They can just say "oh umai, oishii" or make hideous compounds of "tasty taste".
"A sugoii, this tuna sure is tasty tastelicious!"
It's pretty stupid.

[Anonymous No.15049999]

>>15049891
Also, people do still come up with random new words, albeit they are dumb. Yeet has no etymology, it's not even onomatoepic.

[Anonymous No.15050041]

>>15049999
yeet is slang, umami isn't.
and no, I'm not that fag that you're replying to, I still prefer savory over umami.

[Anonymous No.15050052]

>>15049931
Savory comes from Latin "sapor" you fucking latinboo.
Create your own words

>>15049977
>Are you Japanese?
No
>Why are you so fervent in displacing savoriness from English
Because savoriness doesn't describe as precise what umami means as opposed to "savory" or "roundness", and people who opposed to using umami are contrarian manchild

>They can just say "oh umai, oishii" or make hideous compounds of "tasty [bla bla]
Who the fuck cares?

The nip before anyone else fully define precisely the basic of the concept in question
> this is a new flavour, like sweetness or bitterness. No need to use shit terms that were used to give a hint of the concept like "roundness", "fullness" "savoriness"
> which mechanism is responsible for perceiving it

All these concept are expressed formally with "umami"
With sovoriness you don't have the same precision of the concept, end of story.

If you want to use savoriness is just because it sounds Japanese, otherwise you wouldn't have bitched like queers like you did in this thread

[Anonymous No.15050057]

>>15050052
the only one bitching is you,
holy shit with these long seething replies

[Anonymous No.15050078]

>>15050057
If you want people to agree with you all the time open a subreddit, you wont find anyone who can confront your uneducated opinion

[Anonymous No.15050095]

Umami is a subgenre of savory.

[Anonymous No.15050099]

>>15050052
What about the term savory is a "hint of the concept"? You admitted yourself that the japanese have no other analog for savory other than umami. Umami is the japanese concept of savory. There is nothing more formal or precise, it literally means a "very tasty savory flavor". Explain what umami can be used to describe that is more precise as opposed to savory.

[Anonymous No.15050100]

>REE I DON'T UNDERSTAND A WORD LET'S NOT USE IT
that's not how this works, manbaby

[Anonymous No.15050111]

>what does umami mean?
>>it means savory

>then why not just use the word savory instead
>>NOOOOOOO IT'S NOT THE PRECISE DEFINITION

[Anonymous No.15050117]

>>15050099
>Umami is the japanese concept of savory. There is nothing more formal or precise, it literally means a "very tasty savory flavor".
No retard. It also explain **how** it is perceived .

Before umami, nobody really knew it was a even distinct flavor you imbecile

[Anonymous No.15050129]

>>15050111
>>>it means savory
No, it means umami.

Just like bitterness means bitterness

[Anonymous No.15050141]

>>15050129

[Anonymous No.15050151]

>>15050117
Okay but the coinage and usage of the term savory predates umami, and the definition of them is so similar that no other terms are used to describe it. So, what are you purporting the japanese more accurately describes? I'd love to know, because according to you, no one in the world could articulate the isolated flavor of savory before some Japanese guy in the 20th century coined the term [literally "very tasty"]
If you choose to believe that, good on you, man.

[Anonymous No.15050155]

>>15050141
You know you can read the entire article, right

[Anonymous No.15050164]

>>15050155
and? umami means savory.
just use the word savory instead.

[Anonymous No.15050165]

>>15050141
One definition does not a point make. The dictionary definition of umami refers to the flavor coming from glutamates, while savory refers to foods that lean toward more salty or spicy as opposed to sweet. They're distinct, and stop pretending in your ignorance that they aren't because of colloquial parlance.

[Anonymous No.15050174]

>>15050151
>Okay but the coinage and usage of the term savory predates umami, and
The usage predate it because it expressed a really not know concept that was more broad and not defined formally as umami

>So, what are you purporting the japanese more accurately describes
Because describing it, they also studied that it actually existed (which is was not known the savoriness was used) and which element are required to achieve and perceive it

You can keep writing all you want. I'm just stopping replying to you because you seriously are retarded for not understanding it as we talk

[Anonymous No.15050182]

>>15049284
whats wrong with looking like that

[Anonymous No.15050190]

>>15050164
No. It means umami

[Anonymous No.15050194]

>>15048051
>alcohol = bitter
No it doesn't. Why does vodka taste different from black coffee?

[Anonymous No.15050201]

>>15050182
Looks like a slack-jawed faggot, I'd say.

[Anonymous No.15050210]

>>15047973
I agree. Outlaw synonyms. Anyone who says, "yeah" or "uh huh," "sure," or anything other than just "yes," should be executed.

[Anonymous No.15050216]

>>15050194
alcohol and coffee are both separate flavor notes that fall under the bitter category.

[Anonymous No.15050218]

>>15049188
why does my dad my cooking as "not manly enough"? why does he order steak well done

[Anonymous No.15050249]

>>15050201
hes literally clenching his jaw

[Anonymous No.15050272]

>>15050174
Hey honestly thanks for this reply im cracking up lol, good job bro

[Anonymous No.15050275]

>>15050052
>Savory comes from Latin "sapor" you fucking latinboo.
>Create your own words
Two different languages use different words, surprising right?

[Anonymous No.15050276]

>>15050216
If you broaden your category enough, anything can fall under any category. Biology has been plagued by this problem forever. Spiders and cats can both fall under the "predator" category but you'd be a fucking retard if you said spiders and cats are the same thing.

Sounds to me like taste classification needs a serious overhaul. No one in their right mind would be happy if they ordered a coffee and got a glass of vodka.

[Anonymous No.15050279]

>>15050249
I just wanted to reference The Predator to be honest.
Having glasses and very mild feminine facial features is pretty much the barrier for having insults thrown at you, since you look close enough to the typical consoomer soyboy by then.

[Anonymous No.15050293]

>>15050276
I agree. However, the five tastes system is just really easy to understand though. Pic related is how complex it can get. And this is just describing all of the subtleties of coffee.

[Anonymous No.15050301]

>>15050216
Alcohol is lightly sweet. You're thinking of hops.

[Anonymous No.15050305]

>>15050279

[Anonymous No.15050307]

>>15050301
everclear isnt sweet

[Anonymous No.15050314]

>>15050301
I've never tried vodka. I've heard that it's mainly made of just water and ethanol. Does it taste sweet or bitter?

[Anonymous No.15050323]

>>15050293
Right. So clearly, there are far more than five/six tastes.

[Anonymous No.15050336]

>>15050323
Yeah. Umami and Savory are synonymous terms, both very general used to describe similar flavor profiles.

[Anonymous No.15050367]

>>15050323
here's another good wheel. flavor tastes are on the left side of the wheel. obviously this was created before savory/umami became a thing.

notice how there are subcategories under the 4 main tastes? and how there are further subcategories under those as well? this is why there are 4/5 basic tastes, all of the more specific flavors are just subcategories.

[Anonymous No.15050433]

>>15050367
>just subcategories
>just
That's the issue. Subcategories are far more important than supercategories. Again using biology, it seems that animal taxonomy is the only field that understands this. I care that cows are similar to pigs, and both are similar to lobsters. But if I ordered a plate of meat, I'd be pretty fucking angry if I got a blob of amoeba on a plate even though they're also eukaryotes.

I don't really get why cuisine is the only field that thinks the huge, overarching categories are the most important.

[Anonymous No.15050451]

>>15050314
It can taste vaguely sweet to me when it's well-refined and made from the right stuff. Chemically speaking there's usually tiny amounts of leftover junk besides water and ethanol, so you can get a number of flavors; just like reasonably pure drinking water can sometimes have a vague taste to it.

That said, I've never tasted a mixture of chemically pure ethanol and water, but I'd kind of assume anyone describing such a mixture as "bitter" is misinterpreting the astringent effect on the tongue, rather than "tasting" bitterness per se. But then you're getting into brain-in-vat philosophical territory of what perception even is. I think it's easier to say YMMV and call it a day.

[Anonymous No.15050929]

>>15048028
What do paint chips taste like