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File: 183 KB, 800x800, HEZHEN-Kitchen-Knife-Sharpener-Grinding-Stone-Diamond-Sharpening-Surface-Whetstone-Knife-Kitchen-Grinding-Tool-with-Angle[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14956078 No.14956078 [Reply] [Original]

>try to use a waterstone for half an hour
>knife still can't cut paper cleanly

What a meme

>> No.14956090

>>14956078
did you get it wet

>> No.14956092

>>14956078
use a sharpening steel after, it will reallign the edge.

>> No.14956107 [DELETED] 

>>14956090
yeah, but im also gay, so i wonder if that had an impact.

>> No.14956113

>>14956078
Yeah that's what you get for listening to "experts" telling everyone they need ultra-ultra fine finishing stones instead of workhorse grits between 250 and 1500

>> No.14956129

>>14956090
yeah I got it whet

>> No.14956132

>>14956113
I was using 600, my knife is pretty damn dull at this point

>> No.14956138 [DELETED] 

>>14956132
have you considered that your technique may be the issue?

>> No.14956282

>>14956078
you need to be a japanese hashibaka in order to whet blades

>> No.14956300

>>14956132
Then get a 300

>> No.14956356

>>14956078
are you applying pressure only when pulling away (the proper way)?
I applied pressure on both strokes and ended up dishing my stone, and barely sharpening the blade.

>> No.14956364

>>14956356
>(the proper way)
you must really love burrs

>> No.14957517

>>14956113
finishing stones are for finishing.
Get something like a 600 and a 1200 or 1500
And it is important to train with some cheap dull knives before you ruin your good stuff.
It is not really complicated but you want some muscle memory.

>> No.14957561

>>14956078
Just get an electric knife sharpener or pay someone else to sharpen knives for you like any sane person would. Knives rarely need to be sharpened anyway, just honed. I've had knives that couldn't cut paper until I honed them.

>> No.14957566
File: 10 KB, 474x314, 1530370485015.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14957566

>>14956090
>>14956129

>> No.14957631

Can I keep a whetstone constantly wet and use it whenever or would it significantly lower its lifespan or use by being slowly dissolved or something?

>> No.14957655

>>14957631
It apparently softens so much you can knock a chunk off it or it turns very soft and dishes out extremely fast.

>> No.14957658

>>14957655
I figured it would be something like that. Thanks.

>> No.14957723

>>14956092

Steels don't "realign" anything. All they do is remove material, just like a stone.

https://scienceofsharp.com/2018/08/22/what-does-steeling-do-part-1/

>>14956132

600 is a pretty low grit for anything finer than serious edge reshaping.

>>14957631

Some can be permasoaked, some can't. Google it with whichever stone you're interested in/have and it will tell you.

>> No.14957733

>>14957517
>ruin your good stuff
Found one of those “experts”

>> No.14957803

>>14957733
Yes with a 600 wetstone you can seriously mess up your edge. Considering half of this board is retarded and has the fine motor skills of a chimp on crack I would advice starting out with something cheap.

As I said it is not complicated but it takes a little bit of practice.

>> No.14957813

>>14957803
Any damage you do with a stone, you can undo
Nobody fucking around going "how do i cut paper durr" is going to inadvertently round the heel of their precious irreplaceable keijiro doi knife, stop acting like you need to throw away your mass produced weeb sword just because you scuffed up the side

>> No.14958131
File: 159 KB, 1500x1500, KO-6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14958131

i have a couple whetstones. i know how to use them and can get a nice, sharp edge. that said they're an autistic waste of time when tools like pic related exist. they get the edge just as sharp in a few minutes. you can even strop with it -- save a used sandpaper band and lightly coat it in stropping compound.

>> No.14958153

>>14956078
dop the sharpie trick
also try running the blade through a piece of wood after you've finished the steps, sometimes youll have a small burr which will make it seem dull.
>>14957813
All he is suggesting is learning on inexpensive knife before doing it on your expensive shit, i don't see why you would have a problem with that. Its very easy to mess up when you're new and scratch up the blade, round a tip, etc. shit you dont want to do even if its relatively simple to fix.

>> No.14958207

>>14958153
Yeah, I know what he's suggesting. I'm saying it's unnecessary fearmongering. What are you worried about, scratching your $70 gyuto, what's the problem? Why does rounding the tip justify all this fear? Being able to deal with problems YOU created is inherent to taking care of your shit. If you can't fix your own shit you should just get a Chef's Choice or have someone else do your sharpening.

>> No.14958281

>>14958207
Being able to fix stuff doesnt mean getting into that situation is desirable, i'd tell a newbie to practice on a cheap victorinox over a wustof anytime. Its much better for people (generally) to learn what you're talking about on something without serious financial or sentimental value. Calling him out on this typical suggestion is autism.

>> No.14958289

>>14958207
i've seen some pretty fucked up knives i've had to fix for people who do it wrong, it's far better to gain some confidence on a cheap tool and stone than to fuck up not only your knife but your stone with what is probably a harder steel knife with poor form
fixing a badly fucked up knife is a lot harder than getting in some practice the easy way

>> No.14958311

>>14958281
Being able to not fall off your bike doesn't mean falling off a bike is good, but you're not going to learn how to ride a bike without falling a couple of times. Getting good at a thing means making mistakes and learning how to deal with those mistakes. And what "sentimental value", did you inherit that knife through three generations of ancestors? Is it a one of a kind hand made knife? No, it is not, it's a Tojiro DP you bought off Amazon, stop treating it like it's a museum piece.
>>14958289
Same goes for stones, flatten your god damm stones, fuck. Dishing happens, it's part of life, stop acting like normal things are the end of the world and it's time to give up. Did you ever write a script that failed on the first shot and did you fix it or did you just give up and go "this is for experts only". I hate this mentality, stop enabling bad behavior.

>> No.14958348

>>14958311
Yeah you're going to fail, so why not fail on something where your impacts wont be as big of a deal. Most teenagers dont learn to drive with a brand new car.

>> No.14958366

>>14958348
That's a bad analogy because you can't do anything with a stone that will destroy the knife. It's a solid piece of metal.

>> No.14958373

>>14958366
Its isnt a bad example, its literally the same concept. Almost no hobby or craft has you starting out at the absolute highest end of things. Like the other anon pointed out also, higher end steels are infact harder to fix.

>> No.14958376

>>14958373
>the absolute highest end of things
WHO IS PRACTICING SHARPENING ON THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST END OF GEAR? It doesn't happen, your shitty VG-10 sanmai crap is NOT SPECIAL, SHUT THE FUCK UP GOD DAMM YES I'M MAD

>> No.14958386

>>14958376
I don't even own any nice knives retard, i'm simply speaking to general concept of owning a higher end product which the original anon you replied to was doing also since we don't know what OP even owns. There is nothing wrong with the GENERAL CONCEPT that its better to practice on inexpensive stuff.

>> No.14958399

>>14958386
>since we don't know what OP even owns
Yes we do. It's a Fibrox or an FKH or an FKM or a DP or a Shun or a Wusthof or a Yaxell or some other BORING, NOT SPECIAL, NOT UNIQUE, NOT EXPENSIVE knife that DOES NOT need to be kept in a helium-filled hyperbaric chamber guarded by heavily armed eunichs until he can pass a test overseen by an NBTHK certified swordsmith. Stop spreading misinformation or I will unleash gorilla warfare on you, maggot

>> No.14958410

>>14958376
>WHO IS PRACTICING SHARPENING ON THE ABSOLUTE HIGHEST END OF GEAR?

even if they are, who gives a shit. it's a piece of steel. it's meant to be used. if you """ruin it""" just pay someone not retarded to sharpen it for you. if you can't afford this then you have no business owning a $400 knife, which is a retarded waste of money in itself -- but you GRORIOUS NIPPONUUUU STEEEEEELUUUUUU retards cannot be convinced otherwise.

>> No.14958437

>>14958311
first of all, nobody actually owns repair blocks retard they just get another 10 dollar compressed block of dirt if the newbies ruin them
if you ever had to train anybody you'd know absolute rookies gouge channels into stones
secondly, dishing isn't even an issue, if you need to own a repair block because you cause enough dishing that it's an issue it's because your form sucks
dishing will in no way prevent you from sharpening your knife when done anywhere close to properly


>>14958410
>>14958399
different steels have different properties and you'll get the technique if you use a softer metal knife because you'll need to sharpen more often and your stones will take less damage per sharpening session
there is absolutely no reason to initially practice on anything but a cheap knife with cheap softer metal

>> No.14958453

>>14958410
No but if I accidentally scratch the sides of my amazon purchase it will literally RUIN the knife, 4chan said so! Instead I should go out and buy a "starter knife" (same exact knife but $30 less) to "practice on" and then throw away so I can eventually "graduate" to my very slightly more expensive Amazon product that has sentimental value because the Lasership guy winked at me. Oh and btw this is totally cost effective rather than buying a flattening stone which apparently nobody has...
>>14958437
>first of all, nobody actually owns repair blocks retard
Of course the tripfag has to jump in with his "I failed to buy the required equipment therefore everyone should just give up", classic
>muh technique
The guy can't even cut paper, there's no "technique" so esoteric that you can't get a paper cutting edge on ANY steel, autismo shit like microbevels and stone choice are way past this point

>> No.14958461

>>14958453
are you just trolling or are you really that stupid

>> No.14958465

>>14958461
Well you're using a trip so I can't refute that... UNTIL NOW

>> No.14958469

>>14958465
ok

>> No.14958471

>>14958311
Yes mistakes are inevitable thats exactly the reason why I suggested a cheap knife.
Scratching it is not that bad. And yes you can and should repair your fuck ups but knifes with hardened edges can at worst chip if the angle is to flat and you use the stone wrong or drop it. You will not be able to restore something like this simply by grinding all of the hardened edge away.

But don't worry a 70$ bug knife is not exactly what I thought of when I said experience anyways. In that price class you will not find knives with glashard edges. I would still start with some 30$ stuff not the most fancy gook knife you own.

>> No.14958476

>>14958471
He's already using a cheap knife. I don't care if you think your knife is fancy. It is not fancy. And if it's too fancy for you, I've got some bad news: it lost 50% of its value the second the return window expired. Congrats, your "fancy" knife is now no more valuable than a Fibrox anyway, so learn to take care of it and stop being a little girl about scratches.

>> No.14958588

>>14956078
>picture
>trying to sharpen on a waterstone isn't even wet

>> No.14958610

>>14958476
I literally said scratches are no thing to worry about.
You must have had a hard time at school if you are so bad at reading comprehension.
To your information knives are a tax deductible expense for professionals so they are basically free if you make enogh money, no reason not yo get a bit fancy.

>> No.14958668

>>14958610
Not that guy but you lost the debate

>> No.14958729

What a fuckin' thread this turned into
>>14956090
ye I kept it wet
>>14957803
I only have one knife, my tojiro dp. I like it, but I only spent $40 on it and I don't mind fucking it up. Who would buy a crazy expensive knife before they figured out how to sharpen it anyway?
>>14957723
Should I just spend a lot of time on the 2000 to improve this?
Opinions on which grits to use when seem to vary massively.
>>14957561
The idea of paying someone else to sharpen my $40 tojiro is kinda funny, but I don't think that's a thing available near me
>>14956356
Ye, I only applied pressure while dragging

>> No.14958764

>>14958729
Tojiro DP has a very thick factory grind because the steel can't sustain a fine edge at low angles. Most people like to thin theirs (you'll want a lower grit than 600 for that) but you need to apply a moderately wide microbevel with a finer stone (1000+) at the end otherwise the edge will turn to shit after a short time. Finished in this way it can be an excellent workhorse knife but everyone wants a laser so it ends up being not so great in practice, it's either a clumsy axe grind that wedges in everything or it's a laser with horrible edge holding. What makes it especially hard is the primary bevel for the "laser" experience should match the secondary (in effect, no secondary) for easiest maintenance, but that's not the geometry that works best for this knife. So you need to have some patience and autism to get the most out of it, which is why it's not a great starter knife and people with the skills to make it reach full potential usually just chuck it and upgrade anyway.

Use the sharpie trick to see where you're missing the edge.

>> No.14958800
File: 163 KB, 300x300, 1373714478523.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14958800

>>14958764
I'm kinda glad to know that I was never really gonna get the results I was expecting
Thnx for your wisdom

>> No.14958814

>>14958800
If your expectation was to cut paper, just ignore everything else in my post and follow the part about the sharpie trick. Cutting paper is just basic sharpening proficiency.

>> No.14959102

>>14958814
What exactly does it mean to "cut paper" anyway? I can cut paper with mine but I have to hold it solidly so that it doesn't flop around too much and move the blade forward while cutting.
Is that the paper test or is a decent blade supposed to cut dangling paper to ribbons like a lightsaber or some shit

>> No.14959286

>bought thing
>i'm bad at thing

what a meme

>> No.14959311

>>14959102
modern paper test is sort of just a shitty meme test, but it's pretty common place since everyones got paper around
you can cut paper with a pretty dull knife, but what it's actually good for is finding chips and dings.
run your knife slowly through the paper and you'll find your problem spots, doing it quickly serves no real purpose other than making your friends feel uncomfortable as you swing your knife around wildly towards them with a loose grip
the paper test is more meant for newsprint than copy or printer paper which is thicker and harsher on the knife, but being more rigid it's easier to cut with a dull knife, but its what they're all using since most people don't read the paper anymore
my grandfather used to shave letters out of the paper without cutting through it at the dinner table with his pocket knife

>> No.14959321

>>14959311
>my grandfather used to shave letters out of the paper without cutting through it at the dinner table with his pocket knife
Did he rearrange them into threatening letters to send to his favourite celebrities or politicians?

>> No.14959353

>>14959321
no just his wife

>> No.14959433

>>14957723
Interesting article, anon!