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/ck/ - Food & Cooking


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13390077 No.13390077 [Reply] [Original]

my punk ass younger siblings love macaroni but we almost never have heavy cream in the house so i have to make it the roux/milk way instead of just fat cream and cheese. it always out grainy when i make it with roux. any way to make the sauce more silky when making it w flour/butter? hate how boxed macn cheese tastes

>> No.13390090

>>13390077
A roux shouldn't be grainy or chunky...

Sounds like you just need to practice more on your white sauce making skills.

also, medium high heat, cold milk, reduce heat and add little bit at a time once you have a base of flour and fat established. and constantly stir.

>> No.13390096

>>13390077
I combine heavy cream and egg yolk and then heat that with shredded cheese. The egg yolk creates an emulsified sauce and it's always smooth unless you burn it.

>> No.13390115

>>13390090
This. Butter and flour. Whisk (with a whisk or fork) for a few minutes until the flour isn't raw. Add more butter if you need to. There's probably ratios online to follow for how much sauce you're making. Add cold milk slowly. You don't want the mixture to get cold. You'll end up with lumpy roux. Add cheese after you turn the heat off. Don't add all of it all at once. Is that what Mornay is? I figured it's just roux with cheese.

>> No.13390127

thank you anons. usually just melt the butter, put in flour and then start adding milk once it’s combined. didn’t know you had to cook the flour

>> No.13390174

>>13390127
If you add the cheese with too much heat, it will separate and get grainy. Add it in sections until it melts. You can turn the stove on to the lowest setting if you lost too much heat in the pot. It'll be good. Look at different cheeses and herbs too.

>> No.13390240

>>13390115
mornay is a bechamel with cheese. bechamel is roux with milk

>> No.13390271

>>13390174
This is the only intelligent answer, showing once again that /ck/ is full of fucking cooklet goober. Everyone else itt is fucking retarded, giving roux instructions like that's the issue. Do you guys just talk out of your asses irl as well?
When your roux has thickened enough remove it from the heat for a few minutes before you add cheese or it will indeed become grainy.

>> No.13390276

>>13390077
just a simple roux with black pepper, mustard powder, cayenne, paprika, salt, and onion powder + a melty cheese with a strong-tasting cheese

>> No.13390297

Precooked Mac. Add butter to medium heat, then add milk of the same quantity, get it up to a not simmer. Toss shredded cheddar with cornstarch, and slowly add to the hot milk, butter, wisk it in, then add more, wisk it in, do it again. It'll be smooth as silk if you do it right. Then toss in your cooked maccaroni and salt to taste. It's perfect supermac without using sodium cirtrate.

>> No.13390298
File: 255 KB, 1442x2025, mac-and-cheese-recipe-titled.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13390298

>> No.13390308

>>13390276

Roux is flour and flour needs to be cooked too long for me to be pissed with it. Shortcut to the simple sugar of cornstarch. This isn't room temperature superconducting, it's shitty mac and cheese.

>> No.13390327

>>13390308
i have no clue what youre trying to tell me here as i never implied a roux wasnt made with flour

>> No.13390331

>>13390308
A few minutes is too long? It just needs to smell like cooked dough. If you don't, it'll taste a bit like raw flour. And it probably didn't hydrate with the butter. If making a cheese sauce takes too long, just make it out of the box.

>> No.13390338
File: 151 KB, 1500x1125, MACnCHEEZ.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13390338

I've tried many recipes over the years. All were "meh". This one was where I could finally stop searching.

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/10/the-food-labs-ultra-gooey-stovetop-mac-cheese.html

Comes out looking exactly like the picture, it's phenomenal. Only difference is the recipe makes it too mild with the american cheese, I just grate extra sharp yellow vermont cheddar and some monty jack.

>> No.13390374

>>13390331

It's still grainy because of the grind. You can cook a roux to any colour, if it has grain to it, it gets in your teeth. Mac and Cheese needs to be a cream sauce. So naturally I recommend a cornstarch thickener for your fucking cheddar. Get it? This isn't Escoffier.

>> No.13390422

>>13390374
I don't make it very often but it usually works out fine. That's why I mentioned adding a bit more butter if needed. There's only a couple ingredients involved. You'll know when it's right when you do it a few times hopefully. You can sift your flour too.

>> No.13390428

>>13390374
>>13390422
Retards, it's too hot when cheese is added, not the type of flour. Please never work in the healthcare field.

>> No.13390431

>>13390422
I absolutely know you 'can' do it, I just don't know why you'd do it. I've better beef gravy with cornstarch than actual roux and I've done both. The sweeter content corners the darkly browned content so well I've given up on the french technique. I still have parents that shack flour and water but I can't be bothered.

>> No.13390434

>>13390428
Never work in the heavy industrial vehicles field, from the sounds of it. Are you boozed?

>> No.13390438

>>13390428
I was a paramedic as a civilian and an airborne combat medic in the military. I hope you don't act like that in front of your patients.

>> No.13390457

>>13390438

responsible people vs. irresponsible people are 1:10. I honour your commitment.

>> No.13390462

>>13390077
I add a spoonful of queso or sour cream to mine

>> No.13390472

>>13390457
I'm not in healthcare anymore. Just trying to help OP with what he's got available. I mentioned the heat and cheese part earlier if it makes grouchy anon feel better.

>> No.13390485

>>13390338
>https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/10/the-food-labs-ultra-gooey-stovetop-mac-cheese.html
Horrible cheat recipe. Ugh. You don't want vinegary hot sauce, just use cayenne. You don't want eggs, corn starch nor american geez. You don't need a can of evaporated milk for stovetop mac in cheese. This guy's a reinvent-the-wheel wannabe engineer hack. Stop idolizing him.

OP, yes,the better texture mac is not stovetop, but baked as a casserole after making the sauce. In your nonstick, cook the roux a couple of minutes to ensure it's lost the raw flour taste, and that every molecule gets coated with the butterfat. Feel free to use more butter than the equal ratio of butter to flour. I use 1 rounded Tablespoon for a 1lb noodle serving. I often sweat 1/4 small chopped onion in the butter before the roux. To the buttery roux, once cooked, slowly add your whole milk, or your half n half (what I use, since it's there for my coffee every day). Turn to low, and let it thicken, scraping up. Get your 1lb block of vermont cheddar, something aged or ny, just not mild, grated coarsely, split that in half. Leave half on your cutting board. Put half of the shreds into the bechamel, and take off the heat, or turn off the heat, just fold it in. Drain the pasta, shake out the water in the colander. Dump into your bechamel or combine in a bowl, then fold in your remaining cheese. Feel free to use 2 types of cheese, 3 types, to your own recipe. Feel free to enhance the bechamel with pinches of mustard, salt, cayenne, pepper, nutmeg, whatever you wish. Good cheese doesn't need much. I top my pasta with toasted seasoned breadcrumbs.
That stringy grainy, breaking cheese sauce is from just attempting to continue to heat it and stir it. It's a protein thing, and nothing to do with the flour or the milk or cream. Doesn't matter much though, because when blended with the pasta, it's still going to be delicious, just will have the fat separating.

>> No.13390521

When your roux is too hot the milk proteins in the cheese denture and coagulate, and the result is a grainy, watery product. Ignore these wannabe Alton Brown pseuds telling you it's the flour, etx. If you want extra stringy cheese sauce, throw in a big handful of shredded mozzarella while tossing with the pasta. The mozzarella is there for texture, not so much for flavor in this case. This also helps if you fuck up and get grainy cheese sauce, the mozzarella will give it more substance.

>> No.13390601

1tsp citric acid +2tsp baking powder mixed into half a cup of water melt cheese in this liquid

>> No.13390640

>>13390077
Keep stirring it while bringing it up to a simmer, if it sticks to the bottom of the pot that can make it a little grainy. Turn the heat off when adding the cheese, it should still be hot enough to melt it all, but if it starts bubbling with the cheese in it that makes the cheese split which can also make it seem grainy.

You can try adding a slice or two of American cheese, it has emulsifiers in it which can make the sauce extra smooth. Or try something like >>13390601 which is basically the same thing.

>> No.13390767

>>13390077
I usually make it the stovetop way from scratch. The baked way is good, but gives me a stomach ache without fail.

Cook macaroni in salted boiling milk. If using regular elbow noodles, a 2:1 volume ratio is fine, but it's also fine to add a little too much.
Add butter and dijon mustard.
Add whatever the hell other things you want. (Worcestershire sauce, cayenne, rosemary, garlic, etc.)
Add cheese. It must be deli or self-shredded cheese. Bagged shredded cheese will not melt properly.

>> No.13390803

>>13390601
>>13390640
>emulsifiers

This shit right here. Sodium citrate in particular. A little butter, some milk, a bunch of cheese, and whatever else you want. Heat gently. The best part is the sauce doesn't separate when you reheat it.

>> No.13390980

>>13390601
>>13390640
>>13390803
i bought sodium hexametaphosphate (another emulsifier) because another anon has shilled it in various threads.

How much of this shit am i supposed to put? A few teaspoons?

>> No.13391050

>>13390980
I don't have any experience with that but yeah like 4 teaspoons. Any more than that and it starts to get too gooey/sticky.

My ratio is 4 teaspoons sodium citrate, 1 quart milk or any liquid really and 1 pound cheese per pound of pasta.

>> No.13391053

>>13391050
Plus like half stick of butter.

>> No.13391206
File: 75 KB, 720x684, Ketchup with mac and cheese.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13391206

>>13390077
With ketchup.

>> No.13391548

>>13390980
Someone here spent about a month shilling sodium hexametaphosphate almost every day. I almost bought it too because of him, but never followed through. I kinda got over my mac and cheese phase after weight gains and terrible toilet experiences.
>>13391050
Dude, that may be the measure for citrate, but not sodium hexametaphosphate. Its much more powerful, and takes just a fraction of a teaspoon. Never trust the retards here, follow instruction from a reputable site.

>> No.13391620

>>13391548
Can you not cope with cornstarch and a whisk? The fuck is wrong with you people I get perfectly creamy sauce in 5 minutes. This is like talking to retarded cyborgs dying to use acidic chemicals.

>> No.13391625
File: 696 KB, 2104x2376, 1574149251068.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13391625

>>13391620

>> No.13391633

>>13391625

wow, you fucking can't cook. I'm sorry for you. Jesus Christ stop using shortcuts and learn.

>> No.13391637

>>13391625
I'm not joking, you fucking suck if you can't make a creamy sauce with cheddar, cornstarch, butter, milk and heat.

You REALLY can't cook.

>> No.13391650

>>13390077
Maybe the ratio, it’s always equal parts butter and flour by weight not volume.

>> No.13391657

Not only should you add the cheese off the heat, but also you need to use freshly shredded and not the bagged stuff, since that’s covered in some kind of powder to stop it sticking, and you don’t want that in your sauce.

>> No.13391668

>>13391657

Asshole, you use carbohydrates to break the long chain proteins to keep it from turning into a sopping mess. How the fuck are you people so in the dark on this? You're like talking to plankton.

>> No.13391682

You undereducated pricks need to learn how to make a simple dish without pulling out fancy acids.

>> No.13391686

>>13391682
You need to stop desperately flailing around for a response. It's starting to look like mac and cheese is all you have in life.

>> No.13391695

>>13391686
I live for it, I love it. It's everything. Oh wait. No its not. I don't give a living fuck about it. I'm eating ketchup chips tonight!! I know you're fucking dumb but stop looking for a something to ply your way into. You're not close.

>> No.13391696

>>13390077
You're supposed to add milk SLOWLY to bechamel after the initial butter and flour is combined and beginning to brown. If it's chunky you fucked up and your only hope is a blender (but it'll be a subpar result) or starting all over again.
Work on your bechamel anon, it's a necessary skill.

>> No.13391701

>>13391657
>since that’s covered in some kind of powder to stop it sticking, and you don’t want that in your sauce.
It's usually just covered in starch. It's what you use to thicken the milk. This recipe has you cover the cheese in starch like preshredded, though probably with more starch than they use, and it makes a decent sauce.

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/09/cheese-sauce-for-cheese-fries-and-nachos.html

>> No.13391703
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13391703

>>13391625

>> No.13391707

>>13390127
Roux is a brownish red, sort of ginger colour in french. The butter/flour should BEGIN to take on that colour before you add the milk. Really just begin though, as soon as it begins to brown you can add a bit of milk and start your sauce.

>> No.13391708

>>13391695
Don't be so literal. Your life is empty and you've been desperate for a response in this thread for a while now. I shouldn't have given you one, but here it is anyway.

>> No.13391710

>>13391696

why do you assholes insist on bechamel for this? That's carbs on carbs on carbs. You fucking people can't use a simple sugar to solve your child food problem? I'll talk to you all day about sourdough and breads of all kinds and even white sauces with flour but just fucking stop it with this shit.

>> No.13391713

>>13391708

I'm watching His Dark Materials and listening to you assholes. I'm not desperate or bored. Good try.

>> No.13391717
File: 30 KB, 420x315, kentucky-hot-browns-sl-x.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13391717

>>13391710
Add cheese to a bechamel and you have a mornay.

>> No.13391718
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13391718

>>13391710
He talked about how he didn't manage to make his bechamel, we're just going with the thread. It's not much flour in a bechamel though, you're not supposed to dump your entire pack in there and it'll end up essentially healthier than a heavy cheese/shredded cheddar variation.
You do mention white sauce though, are you under the false impression that there is a difference between it and béchamel ?

>> No.13391720

>>13391717
I'm gonna go take my mozzarelle to a chiabatta and make a garlic bread! Then later I'll make a bruschetta.

>> No.13391727

>>13391718

For christ sake, don't you know the french sauces? I just can't talk with you people.

>> No.13391730

>>13391727
Dude, I'm from the place. Béchamel IS what you people call white sauce.

>> No.13391733

>>13391730

I KNOW YOU DUMB CUNT. Jesus Christ, you're Autistic, right? I can't talk with people who can't reason. Dude. Go to bed.

>> No.13391744

>>13391733
You keep blaming the others for not being able to take your point across but I've read your posts multiple times and I still don't understand what you tried to convey except that I'm an imbecile and you're some kind of food magician who knows everything and should be ckapped to.
Although your random use of capital letters and general agressity tells me you may not have had a point to make to begin with.

>> No.13391755

>>13391744

It's the letters. So take that to heart. You won't figure it out even though I typed it out entirely in this thread. Go away. You're too thick to even cook a shitty pasta.

>> No.13391761

>>13391755
I'm sorry anon but you make no sense at all. I don't mean to be rude but you could benefit from reading a book sometimes.

>> No.13391765

>>13391761
You can't take cues, you can't read into anything. You're just a boring shit living a worthless life. Sorry. You're dumb and I think you kinda know you are.

>> No.13391781

>>13391765
Alright I guess you were going for sarcasm in >>13391727.
Just know that sarcasm doesn't translate well in written language but it would have worked with quotation marks.

>> No.13391788
File: 236 KB, 900x900, SodiumHexametaphosphate.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13391788

>>13390980
Sodium hexametaphosphate anon here, No, you only need a tiny pinch. A quarter tsp should suffice.

>>13391050
Sodium citrate tastes like ass and adds a weird sour aftertaste to your food. You need far less sodium hxmp than you sodium citrate as sodium hxmp is a more powerful emulsifying salt.

>> No.13391796

>>13391765
You haven't contributed anything to this thread besides trying to prove that you're smarter than others describing a basic cooking technique. Nobody will take you seriously if you act like this in the real world. You're literally the faggot everyone talks about. I'm going to have a serious talk with your dad about this while I pound him in the ass.

>> No.13391798

>>13391796
There's no need for homophobic slurs here.

>> No.13391799

>>13391788
>A quarter tsp should suffice.
In how much liquid and with how much cheese?

>> No.13391803

>>13391799
Unless you are making mac n cheese for an enormous crowd 1/8-1/4 tsp should suffice. I don't think you need anymore than 1/8 tsp per pound of cheese/pasta.

Do you regularly make mac n cheese for 15 people or more?

>> No.13391807

>>13390077
I just dump whole milk and sharp cheddar into the noodles and add salt to taste, but then again I'm not morbidly obese and don't live in the deep south.

>> No.13391813

>>13391807
>but then again I'm not morbidly obese and don't live in the deep south.
weird way to justify your method

>> No.13391873

>>13391807
Are you describing the recipe for >>13391625 ?

>> No.13392270
File: 164 KB, 469x1000, aldimaccheeseimgp8557.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13392270

>>13390077
Just follow the instructions on the box, it's not that hard

>> No.13392302

>>13391796
I gave you a goddamn recipe you stupid cunt. So I didn't contribute.

>> No.13392306

>>13391796
Why are all of you stupid assholes always so fucking stupid? Want me to repeat the recipe?

>> No.13392323

>>13392270

That's salt, cornstarch and yellow marking.

>> No.13392332

>>13390077
I make the best macaroni and cheese and I’m gonna tell you a secret here. If you want creamy Mac and cheese.... for every pound of pasta you need to use 2 pounds of cheese minimum. Do not go the roux way if you can help it. Make a cheese sauce using 3-4 cup milk and half/half mixed, .. while melting a pound of deli American and sharp cheddar into it over low heat Your gonna mix all that together with the pasta ...that you’ve buttered with 3 TVs, and create layers with cheese in the middle, cut into the pasta. Last layer requires some Muenster cheese for pull, then again more sharp cheddar. I make this at holidays and I’m not lying...there is never any left. Its legit. I use an egg to hold it all together, lawrys season salt, dry mustard, onion and garlic powder. Cook your noodles in some chicken stock as well. I use about 2 1/2-3 pounds cheese to 1 pound of noodles and I can feed 20 people with it. If you want more info let me know.

>> No.13392344

>>13392332
So you're recommending a casserole type thing? Not saying it isn't good, but not a basic mac and cheese eh?

>> No.13392372

>>13392344
No. It’s not a casserole at all. It’s legit Mac and cheese. I’ve made it with roux many times before but it’s much better this way. This you tube video makes it extremely close to the way that I make mine and will show you what I mean by creating layers. However mine is different..., I cook my noodles in stock, use about 1 1/4 c more of milk, different seasonings, and I use deli American in place of velveta, and I put a layer of Muenster on top, just below my final layer of sharp for a great cheese pull when serving. Creating the cheese layers and cutting it in makes an extraordinary difference. It’s excellent.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qUYWqAc0elE

>> No.13392386

>>13392332
>>13392372
Why the onion and garlic powder instead of finely chopped onions and garlic incorporated into the cheese sauce? Everything else sounds really fucking legit, though.

>> No.13392397

>>13392386
Uncultured swine...aka Kids

>> No.13392407

>>13392386
You have to cook the onions and garlic first. They will not really fully cook through and be unpleasantly raw if you add them. Also using powder more evenly disperses the flavor.

>> No.13392420

>>13392332
>>13392372
Photos would really help. Lets see what you are talking about.

>> No.13392425

>>13392420
A video was posted.

>> No.13392448

>>13392420
Sorry, I’m not making this till Christmas Day. The video I posted will show you pretty much what I’m talking about when it comes to layers and final product. Mine has better pull because of using Muenster and it’s more savory because of cooking in stock. However, I have tried this ladies recipe for Mac and cheese and it’s delicious.

>> No.13392449

>>13392407
>You have to cook the onions and garlic first. They will not really fully cook through and be unpleasantly raw if you add them

That's why I specified that they should be finely chopped/minced. You aren't supposed to add large hunks of them into the cheese sauce and assuming that the sauce is slowly heated over a period of time, they would indeed cook through easily.

>> No.13392455

>>13392449
Even finely minced they still need to be sauteed first or they will taste too raw/strong (imho). Garlic and onion powder are totally fine for a quick sauce.

The sauce isn't slowly heated, it cooks in the oven or stovetop in a matter of a few minutes which won't cook them through.

>> No.13392469

>>13392455
>Even finely minced they still need to be sauteed first or they will taste too raw/strong (imho).

lmfao no they won't unless you have the tastebuds of a 12 year old. you aren't adding fistfuls of the shit.

>The sauce isn't slowly heated
Yes it is retard. Anon even specified that here:>>13392332
>Make a cheese sauce using 3-4 cup milk and half/half mixed, .. while melting a pound of deli American and sharp cheddar into it over low heat

How doesn't low heat equate with "slowly heated?" Have you ever tried to cook a cheese sauce under low heat? It takes forever.

>> No.13392519

>>13392469
Low heat is not enough to cook through aromatics. They will still be raw.

Most people are making quick sauces for mac and cheese.

>> No.13392628

Use this recipe. I've made it for years and brought it to every potluck/party/family dinner/holiday/camping trip for as long as I remember. You can use any cheese you want or a mix of them. Just follow this recipe and you will get zero complaints.

http://www.bbqdan.com/recipes/macaroni_cheese.html

>> No.13392641

>>13392519
Low heat is not enough to cook through aromatics. They will still be raw.
LMFAO. Go eat another Mcchicken washed down with an oliet bangs.

>Most people are making quick sauces for mac and cheese.

Huh?

>> No.13394005

heat the milk to ~190F, then kill the flame and whisk the roux in quickly. then add cheese.

>> No.13394087

>>13390077
>it always out grainy when i make it with roux
besides this being a crappy sentence. If it's grainy you're doing something very wrong.

>> No.13394582
File: 140 KB, 1063x598, 20191221_002224.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13394582

>>13390077
I think the trick is to keep stirring the butter and don't put the flour in all at once. Make sure to heat the milk before adding it or it won't mix properly with the roux.

>> No.13394631

Real mac & cheese is more like a souffle than the slop you guys are posting. It should be sliceable.