/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>9682361
It's stupid. The human body needs meat. Anyone saying otherwise wants to make shekels for that lie or is too stupid to realize how stupid it is.

>>9682392
not an argument

>BUT DOOD HUMANS ATE MEAT FOR 2 MILLION YEARS
>ITS HOW WE EVOLVED MAN

yeah but what about the other 18 million years of human evolution?

>>9682361
the reason people stop eating vegan is because they're lazy and have no self control

veganism is clearly SCIENTIFICALLY the superior diet for longevity and well-being

any person that says a vegan diet caused health problems for them was because they had no fucking idea how to eat a healthy vegan diet in the first place

>>9682399
>yeah but what about the other 18 million years of human evolution?
We were monkeys with pea-sized brains

>>9682392
>The human body needs meat

Explain "need". Is there some magical property in meat that transcends nutrients and calories?

>>9682392
you know the worst part?
i actually wouldn't have minded vegans or vegan food and i would have even given it a chance (not veganism, vegan food and less meat) if it wasn't because they approach was autistic yelling at everyone
If only they knew better

>>9682399
Humans always ate meat. You can't prove me wrong.

>>9682420
P:Humans have always raped and murdered.

C:Humanity needs rape and murder.

>>9682414
>We were monkeys with pea-sized brains

how does it feel not graduating high school?

>>9682399
>>9682414
>>9682416
>>9682420
op here, this is not the topic of this thread, you are confused
i made this thread to discuss the drastic fall in popularity of veganism and how something with so much exposure can go from being seen as the future to a lame joke in just under two years
shit, some people got in this ride early, im talking about over a decade of this, i cant even imagine how embarrassing it will be for them to admit they were wrong

>>9682425
Hrm. I am not sure why you think that is logical?
You're replying to someone making a conjecture about man's nutritional needs over the centuries with cultural abominations. What does diet have to do with your topic?
If B-12 aint in the diet, you dont live. Couldn't you have not been so flippant and chose a more obvious analogy if you wanted to speak to some more intelligent change?

tl;dr vegans have no depth of learning skills. You can't expect them to understand.

>>9682445
>i cant even imagine how embarrassing it will be for them to admit they were wrong

implying popularity = right

i personally haven't noticed the vegan trend dying down, actually seems to be picking up with the release of that "How Not To Die" book falling into the hands of families with deaths door illnesses all over the country

how is the vegan diet wrong exactly?

>>9682425
No sex, no humans. Not killing enemies, no more existance. Rape and murder are new concepts from white civilization to improve living together in a society. However it is human nature and you can see that perfectily by looking at niggers and muslims that aren't capable of civilization. Those can't control their urges and even go after goats to relieve themselves.

>>9682456
>i personally haven't noticed the vegan trend dying down
its probably because of your bubble but out there it seems like nobody cares at all anymore
not even petas crazy stunts hit the news all that much lately, i can't remember the last time i heard from them.

>>9682454
>B12 though

Don't you get tired of spamming the same provably incorrect talking points? Almond milk has B12. If you hate Almonds, you can get it from multivitamins.

>>9682454
how is meat a nutritional necessity if meat causes humans to live a shorter lifespan with more medical problems compared to vegetarians/vegans?

b12 can be supplemented and the reason its needed now is because food is highly sanitized compared to earlier days of food preparation, where you'd get b12 but with a bunch of other diseases as a possibility as well

>>9682476
>live a shorter lifespan
fake and gay

Oldest man alive, eats meat, smokes and did all those things you believe is "unhealthy".

>>9682487
>what is a bell curve?

its amazing you're able to put your pants on in the morning all by yourself

>>9682497
How low must your bantz level be to even count puting on pants to be something amazing?

>>9682409
Nah cunt. What people need is to stop eating processed shit. Good starting point is to eat only food which your grand-grand-mother would recognize as a food if she would go to a supermarket now.

living 2-3 more years (dubious) isn't worth becoming a faggot.

>>9682517
>MUH FREE RANGE
>MUH ORGANIC MEATS

yeah okay paleofag, enjoy dying of kidney disease and alzheimers when you're 50

>living 4-5 more years than a normal person just to be a preaching annoying faggot
no thanks

>>9682361
Vegans, .5% of the population before 1990.
Vegans, 13% of the population currently.
Vegans, projected at 22% of the population by 2025.

Do your homework and stay in school kids... Or learn to Google.

>>9682735
22% dumb bitches with hay like dry hair and fallen in faces. maybe I should start selling make-up and get rich as they will need it to appear less like disgusting vegan-zombies.

>>9682735
>Projected population

There are many nutrients and enzymes that can only be found in meat.
Vitamin B12...
Creatine. ...
Carnosine. ...
Cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3) ...
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) ...
Heme-iron. ...
Taurine.

There is a reason that there are very few vegetarian or vegan athletes.

Back to the topic, I think that it is fading, young people simply don't have the amount of effort needed to stick with it, genertion lazy.

>>9682409
Anybody who thinks that they have to eat literally zero animal products to be healthy also clearly has no idea what they're doing.

>>9683050
Most people don't want to make it their lifelong quest to avoid them - which is necessary if you don't want to become a weak, pale, frail, zombie who's brain has finished developing.

>>9682476
vegetarians and vegans get sick pretty regularly. I don't know why you assume otherwise. Genetics, carcinogens, lack of exercise, too much exercise, who knows?
But, removing a whole food group from your diet isn't a great idea if you are concerned about nutrition. Just be smart and have a variety of great habits and nutrition, not be so focused on rules.

>>9682361
Veganism was never really popular. The percentage of vegans is low in most countries and extremely low in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country

The chart on this wiki includes veganism in the number of Vegetarians and it is a small subset of that.

The Major difference is Vegans tend to whine louder and more often about being vegan and how evil meat eaters are and they enjoy doing it everywhere. It's more like a shitty religion, Like Hare Krishnas, than a dietary choice.

>>9682409
t. tranny
enjoy your phytoestrogen, degenerate

>>9682416
B12 is a complete protein or whatever only found in meat. You need a supplement if you don't eat meat. Besides that, you don't NEED meat, it's just the most efficient source of protein, calories, and other shit. That said, we really do eat too much meat.

>>9683042
>B12 is found only in meat

I'm convinced you guys go into a discord and come to an agreement on what myths you're going to post.

>>9683105
Nice weasel wording there my friend. Define what "regularly" means with respect to someone on a meat eating diet.

>>9683323
It's not that big of a deal to just take some vitamins. Most people should probably take some vitamin supplement whether they eat meat or not.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with just eating a little meat instead of taking the b12 vitamins

>>9682361
>is veganism a passing fad?
yeh
cultured/lab-grown meat is the future

>>9683566
soilent green is PEOPLE!!!!

>>9683323
Almond milk has 50% of the daily amount of b12 in one cup. Try again. What's the magical property?

You’re literally starving your brain.
Veganism is for people with PTSD.

>>9683583
>I can't back this claim with empirical evidence btw

>>9683592
Thanks for admitting that you have PTSD. Are you that ex military fag who shits up every thread with your
>plz sumbuddy think of da chikkens
nut bag ranting?

>>9683042
>Creatine
Not enough in meat to make a dent in the homeostasis values.
>Vitamin D3
That's B12 tire of common fortification.
>Docosahexaenoic Acid
Decent evidence that vegans do not have significantly lower blood concentrations.
>Heme-iron
Free heme is bad for you.

So that leaves Taurine and Carnosine, I'll admit there is decent evidence that vegans should supplement these and they generally don't.

>>9683579
Almond... milk? You mean real Almonds that produce hydrogen cyanide? You propose literal poison instead of milk? the fuck!

(Yes almonds are food, can be eaten and the little poison can be handled. The amount is important! However to consume it as meat replacement, a milk is pure insane!)

>>9683658
>milk... meant meat.

>>9683200
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6q8E2-Egdo

>>9683666
Go back to /pol/

>>9683666
>being this soiboi
>posting khazar milkers
Sadly, you wouldn't even know what to do with a nice set of milkers like that because you're a fucking vegan and you think titties are unethical.

I read that b12 is actually produced by bacteria/fungi that is found in meat/poultry/dairy stuff and can also food in nutritional yeast.
But besides that and almonds what else has b12? A lot of the countries that have the longest life Span at least have some form of meat.
Makes me wonder how vegans lived back then if they didn't have access to nutritional yeast or almonds.
Sorry for the long text and here's a pic of some disposable b12 vape pens that i bought recently, which should basically be almost as effective as the b12 shot you can get.

>>9683707
>implying i'm vegan for ethical reasons
>implying all vegans eat soy

>implying you can fuck a milkers with a limp dick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQuJxN9uP7w

>>9683754
almonds and nutritional yeast can be fortified with b12, they don't make it naturally

all countries with long lifespans have meat in their diet, difference is they don't eat it every single meal - usually only on special occasions (far different from America's lust with processed meat & dairy - a #1 carcinogen more harmful than cigarettes). No country has the "perfect" human diet, which is why you rely on science to decide the best diet from all sources combined.

>>9682399
The only amount of human evolution that matters to our diet are the last 180 thousand years of it, when humans were Omnivores

>>9683818
cool man keep telling yourself that while your body starts to break down over time eating a diet it wasn't genetically predisposed to eating for 90% of its evolution

>>9682409
>>9682539
>>9683666
>>9683776
>Using the same woman for your reaction images

>>9683776
I actually could fuck her milkers with a limp dick. I would just rest my limp penis betwixt them

>>9683834
But that 90% doesn't matter you retards, I'm Homo sapien, not Homo erectus or Homo habilis

We spent the last 180 thousand years an omnivorous hunting Gathering societies that utilized meet as a large portion of our diet along with gathered vegetables fruits berries and nuts, as long as you eat controlled portions of lean meats like chicken and fish, you'll be just as healthy as a vegan

Also fuck you for wanting bee's to go extinct

>>9683845
>as long as you eat controlled portions of lean meats like chicken and fish, you'll be just as healthy as a vegan

>DUDE PALEO DIET LMAO!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0pOGVMntM

>>9683855
Literally nothing I said hinted at a Paleo diet you retard
>B-but you said eat lean healthy meats with a normal diet
Kys

>>9683864
>meat as a large portion of our diet along with gathered vegetables fruits berries and nuts, as long as you eat controlled portions of lean meats like chicken and fish

>vegetables, fruits, berries, nuts, lean meats
>not paleo diet

then what diet is this?

>>9683873
The diet people are thousands of years ago that made us Omnivores, which is why it's alright to still eat meat in today's diet
I wasn't saying you had to eat Paleo

>>9683845
How the fuck does veganism promote the extinction of bees?

>>9683887
>The diet people are thousands of years ago that made us Omnivores, which is why it's alright to still eat meat in today's diet

find me an actual scientific argument not based on feelings that counters the evidence in the video i posted

>>9683909
the assumtion ancestors ate 95% plants. it's not true and absolutly not a proven fact. Even monkey today eat meat. thus it's more valid to assume our ancestors did too. To support this, please notize the fangs/ sectorial tooth human still have today a distinct feature to carnivore species in oposition to herbivore that don't have it.

>>9683909
You need a scientific study to know that our teeth are made for tearing apart meat, or our eyes being positioned in the front of our skulls, or our physiology being made to hunt and chase animals, or our one stomach?

You have a body that's built for eating meat

Veganism is the future. People can't rationalise cruelty to animals forever. We're growing day by day

discord
.gg/dTsF4T

>>9682409
I don't get people who use stock photos of women as reaction images.

>>9683965
to get more bit more into detail:
canine = for tearing meat off bone
front eyes = hunter, side eyes (back view) = pray
more than one stomach = processing efficently plants and fiber

So I'm guessing that vegan scum support eugenics for people with food allergies. I'll never join the vegan antifa master-race because I'll die if I eat a tree nut.

>>9684039
if you aren't willing to sacrifice your life to save an animal, then you don't deserve to eat anyways

Theres billions being poured into artificial meat rnd. Everyones going to be eating non-animal meat in the future.

>>9684039
Vegans don't expect people with food allergies or living in third world countries to stop consuming animal products. They mainly want normal people without any excuses to go vegan.

>>9684019
>Veganism is the future

>>9684120
veganism will be the next atheism

>>9684019
lots of vegans say they'll eat cultured/lab-grown meat once it's available

>>9684019
>People can't rationalise cruelty to animals forever.
I'll believe it if we stop rationalizing cruelty to other humans first.

>>9684166
It already is.

>>9684359
Russia and China will never

>>9683609
Carsonine has benefits but zero negatives for lacking it seems. It's also abundant in plants hilariously. The meatcuck didn't do his homework. Google histidine.

Taurine is a nonessential amino acid as it can be synthesized by the body from cysteine, which is found abundantly in plants.

This anon has no idea what he's talking about. He probably googled "things not found in meat" and has zero nutritional knowledge.

>>9683042
Kek. Another meatcuck btfo'd.

>>9683818

>>9682399
Yes, I am glad you asked this question.
You see, when there's an evolution trait that works, then the species retain that trait. For example eating meat. If an evolution trait it's shit (for example, coastie nu male manlets not eating meat) they just don't reproduce and this mutation gets swept out of the gene pool.
Next question?

>>9683947
Nobody is implying humans aren't herbivores from an evolutionary standpoint. Nice strawman. With current technology ie synthesized B12 and nutritional knowledge one can live as a vegan without any deficiencies. There is no need for meat. Saying that "meat is healthy because it's natural" is like saying "shitting in the streets is natural because Indians have been doing it forever". Don't be this stupid intentionally.

>>9682361
Veganism won't go away until we educate kids where the meat comes from, so it's not a shock when they discover it too late in life and go full meat is murder retard for some fake guilty feelings

>>9684085
Current =/= Future. If you're argument consists of "it will be okay in the future" you justify now you're just hiding your guilt with mental gymnastics.

>>9684567
>Taurine is a nonessential amino acid as it can be synthesized by the body from cysteine, which is found abundantly in plants.

Sure, but vegan's do have a lower level of it. Of course I might be reversing cause and effect and non vegans might be producing more of it as an anti-inflammatory response.

Carnosine levels can be boosted for a couple of hours with sufficient direct intake as well, precursors don't help, which will occur more readily with meat (or supplements).

Trying to kick these above homeostasis levels really is more about medicine than nutrition, but we're not exactly living a natural lifestyle regardless of veganism ... so there can be benefit to that.

>>9682399
>what about the other 18 million years of human evolution?
It doesn't exist. The genus Homo is 2 to 3 million years old. Anything older is not human, by definition.

>>9682409
>SCIENTIFICALLY
Wrong. There isn't ANY hard science on ANY diet to support claims like that.
The best we have are statistical correlations between cultures (translated to ''diet'') and health indicators. But the data is far from conclusive.

Anybody claiming any specific health benefit from any specific diet is full of shit.

I don't give a shit about any of this, I just like the way meat tastes and preferably I would like to eat meat from animals who have been bred well, treated comfortably, and then can be slaughtered in a sustainable way.

I would be perfectly fine with aliens killing me and my kind for food if they allowed me to breed and they gave me an awesome life for like 30 years.

>>9684689
99% of meat is factory farmed animals.

Unless you're paying $70 for a chunk, you're not buying wholesome meat.

The aliens would be killing you at the human equivalent of about 14 years old as a cow, and a day old as a chicken.

>>9684689
Seitan tastes like chicken with proper seasoning and vegan patties taste exactly like beef if grilled correctly.

Vegan patties are a fifth of the price and seitan is one hundredth the price of chicken.

>>9684693
>99% of meat is factory farmed
this isn't even remotely close to true and honestly arguments like these are why no one gives a single shit about vegans and vegetarians

>>9684701
>Seitan tastes like chicken
No it doesn't.
>vegan patties taste exactly like beef if grilled correctly.
No they don't.
They can taste good but they don't taste the same in the least, unless your only experience with those two ingredients is fastfood restaurants.

>>9684702
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1018840
Did your research for you.

>>9682429
in his defense, if you grow up in america even post secondary education doesn't imply you will have gained an even rudimentary understanding of evolution at any point in your academic career

>>9684712
There's a few videos, studies, etc that shows people blind testing can't tell the difference. It seems you're just grasping at excuses at this point.
>b-but anon I nedd my tendies and burgers and 250g protein/day at my sedentary desk job
>but muh taste and heart disease

Things taste better than meat anyway. You'll never miss it once you learn to cook.

>>9684723
more like

>>9684723
>People think Mcdonalds and fastfood in general is good
>People have palates of retards
>Surprised they can't tell the difference.
Sorry lad. You're not convincing anyone, we shat you out of fit and we can shit you out of ck.

>>9684727
wops

>>9684729
There's two vegan threads in fit currently.
The test subjects were chefs iirc.
You have no idea what you're talking about. I doubt you've ever eaten proudly cooked seitan. Kek.
Nice argument though.

>muh opinions

You'll for at 50 probably, so at least you won't be around long.

>>9684732
>ben garrison
topkek love pol

>>9682429
>>9684720
Absolutely not. Homo sapiens (and all the other species in the genus) only evolved a couple of million years ago - everything before then was Australopiths, the precursors to humanity.

>>9684732
>implying 4chan is a restaurant
Only deficient meatcucks think this. Is your estrogen too high anon?

>>9684735
Chef means nothing. It means I pay you to cook for me. Any asshole can pay any asshole to cook for them.
>food "science"
>science

>>9684735
Neither of which are getting as much traction as when the shilling started.
>muh it's not properly prepared
>muh shit palate
>muh inability to read longevity studies
SAD
A
D

>>9684742
>says the one with the all plant all phytoestrogen based diet

is there a possible way to filter out vegancuck vs meatcuck threads? they are getting very tiresome. I am using 4chanX and any help is appreciated.

>>9684743
So your reasoning for not hoping vegan is purely taste?
I've read that often times gasoline has a sweet taste. You should drink some by your logic, yeah?

>>9684701
Vital wheat gluten costs around 20 euro for 5 kg, lets say that makes 10 kg of Seitan. So 2 Euro per kg, chicken breast is 5 Euro per kg.

Don't underestimate chicken's ability to cheaply convert feed to meat.

>>9684744
Vegans live 8-10 years longer buddy.
Veganism/vegetarianism is projected to reach 22% of the US population by 2025. It's currently at 13%.
Traction.

>>9684756
>my study means nothing now

Spineless as I would expect from an anemic.

>>9684749
Phytoestrogen does not negatively impact testosterone. Estrogen(dairy) does. Read much bitchtits?

>>9684765
>Phytoestrogens have widespread effects in the adult brain which have previously been reviewed in detail elsewhere [145, 201,146,202]. Both the PVN and the ventromedial nucleus (VMN) are critical nuclei for the initiation and regulation of sex behavior [214] and each contains primarily one ER subtype. Only ERβ is expressed in the PVN while the VMN contains primarily ERα [256]. Coumestrol and genistein stimulate ERβ mRNA expression in the PVN, an effect opposite to that of 17β-estradiol [205,203]. It is not yet clear what the functional significance of this might be but the PVN is the primary site of oxytocin (OT) production, a peptide hormone important for social behavior and the facilitation of sexual behavior [296,33,229].

>A pair of studies that have had a profound impact on the field, and greatly contributed to health advisories in Europe was conducted in marmosets. Twins were fed either soy formula or milk formula. Males on the soy diet had lower serum testosterone concentrations and higher numbers of Leydig cells at the discontinuation of soy formula use. As adults, the soy fed marmoset had larger testes and lower serum testosterone levels than its twin demonstrating that the impacts were persistent [271,253].

>>9684763
>my greentext lacks logic
Deficient, low testosterone, and bloodflow clogs lowering ability to read as I would expect from an unread, diet-related brainlet.

>>9684768
Post sauce.
Inb4 you didn't read references
Inb4 it's the study that gets cited often, from 1992

>>9684769
>everything reinforces my worldview in a circular fashion

Smells like zinc deficiency with some selenium.

>>9684773
>my argument was laughed out of the thread and now I'm resorting to 'u r retard'
Nourish yourself, bitchtidz. ;)

>>9684772
In vitro assays have found that, although most phytoestrogens, including the isoflavones, bind both ERα and ERβ, and activate ER-dependent gene transcription through both subtypes, they generally have a higher relative binding affinity for ERβ than ERα [133,215,35,132]. Genistein is 7- to 48-fold more selective for ERβ than ERα, depending on the assay used [133,132,17,107]. The relative estrogenic potency of genistein for ERβ is approximately 30-fold higher than for ERα. Potency estimates vary considerably depending on the assay used [117], but as a general principle, most isoflavones bind and activate both ERα and ERβ more readily than synthetic EDCs including BPA [133]. Once bound, isoflavones do not act like typical estrogen agonists, but rather more like selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMS) such as the breast cancer drug tamoxifen which is an ER agonist in the uterus and bone but an antagonist in the breast [193]. This differential activity by phytoestrogens and SERMS results, in part, from the profile of co-activator and co-repressor proteins present in the cell. It also now apparent that each ER ligand induces unique conformational changes, which then influences the recruitment of co-regulator proteins and interactions with the estrogen response element (ERE) [159]. In the presence of phytoestrogens and other endocrine disruptors it appears that ERβ is more efficient than ERα at recruiting coactivators including TIF2 and SRC-1a [230].

You are taking a SERM. You think you are not being feminized, but are. I tricked you all by shilling prostate cancer studies over and over again for years. You know who else has low rates of prostate cancer? TRANSGENDER WOMEN!

>>9684774
>social media meme

Take your B12 supplement.

>>9684776
https://youtu.be/5_UdM0RedwI
Here you are anon. See studies linked and have it explained to you. 6 RECENT peer revieweds just for you.
tldr soy doesn't lower testosterone, dioxins and estrogen in dairy does
Dairy is keeping you numale anon

>>9684779
>implying my meat didn't get b12 basted into it
Meat nowadays doesn't naturally have B12 in it.
A greater percentage of omnivores have a b12 deficiency currently. Found the uneducated moron though.
Btfo

>>9684783
Dairy also makes you tall, due to growth hormone analogues, it evens out.

>>9684783
>poor little brainlet has to use youtube to regurgitate "science" for it on a topic that is far from settled

Taxvig et al. tested 12 food relevant phytoestrogens and found that all of the test materials increased estrogen production and decreased testosterone production, implying that aromatase activity was increased in three different cell lines [4].

>e current study demonstrates the effect of dietary phytoestrogens
on ovariectomized rats uterus and their proliferative effect which is
mediated by estradiol receptors expression. Also dietary phytoestrogens
up regulate VEGF expression, that seems to follow the changes in
estrogen receptors expression, and stimulate angiogenesis and hyper
permeability in blood vessels that makes soy phytoestrogens may be
used as a natural HRT in case of low levels of endogenous estrogens
especially after ovariectomy or during ovarian hormonal dysfunction.
But the use of these compounds should be concerned as they may
predispose uterine neoplasia.

>>9684787
>n-no you

Take your b12 supplement. Vegans have no cognitive flexibility.

>>9684802
Post your sauce dipshit
There's multiple 90s studies that equate estrogen to soy, all of which are destroyed by their referencees

>>9684804
You first, bitchtits.

>>9684802
>YouTube
>one link for current studies
I see you're quoting a Harvard study from 1998, which is no longer valid due to having been proven false two references later
Nice try though.

>>9684689
I would rather have meat factories where the animals are brain dead from the start and end until it's time to go become a steak because it makes meat cheaper Wich means poor people can afford it too, there is already more expensive alternatives

>>9684693
>Hurpty durpty Doo aliens would get on spaceships and come all the way to earth to eat us, I would totally eat a caveman it's the same as eating a cow

>>9684752
>Newfags

>>9684835
If you're not who I was replying you or you didn't read the post chain, I was banking off the previous logic.

>>9684842
>Concerned about environment to point of making your dog a vegan
>Uses amazon
Really love these cases of putting the cart before the horse.

>>9682409
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU

>>9684859
Legit scary shit.

>>9684857
The resources required to make meat based dog food would heavily outweigh the resources required to create plant based food plus ship it. Kek.

>>9684877W
Wrong on both global and singular cases, you are supporting Amazon a company that will be using shitloads of shipping, electricity and transportation which far outweigh agriculture.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions

>>9684841
FUCK YOU I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU

>>9684859
Vitamin A? As in beta carotene?

There are a tiny percentage of people which can't convert it I guess, but those have bigger problems.

>>9684894
The Agriculture statistic doesn't account for anything but agriculture. There's more than just pure animal emissions associated with meat.

Find some sauce if you're so sure.

>>9684894
Delivery vans are less efficient than delivery trucks, then again you don't have to drive to the shop to pick it up ... I suspect it's a wash.

The ability to be on a healthy vegan diet is a luxury and a privilege.

>>9684894
Water structure and renewing is not cheap.

>>9684944

>>9684949
144????? Do Americans really eat that?

>>9683658
The hormones and antibiotics in meat will probably do much more harm to you than almond milk

>>9684949
a burger weights a lot more than 5 almonds stupid

>>9684965
Wow, what a moron you are. Not even the vegan.

Daily reminder that it's in any company's best interest to make you pay for the most expensive product.
That product is meat. By associating meat with masculinity, tradition and health the meat jews have made you think you require it and that it's healthy.
It is not healthy. I challenge anyone to find a study on a benefit of red meat that cannot be benefited from with plants.
You won't be able to find one. Meat is essentially poisonous.

>>9684982
>have terrible opinion
>google "studies that support my terrible opinion"
>shove your degeneracy in everyone's face while screaming MUH SCIENCE

In the New World, scientific discourse will be kept safe by a gigantic paywall so that normalfags like you cannot exploit 'studies' to prove your own opinions. Giving mankind free access to science is a terrible idea.

>>9684982
No fucking way in fucking hell can land use change cause so much emissions. Only in rare circumstances can natural vegetation provide a continuous carbon sink (it needs to dump it somewhere or it would have to keep growing up).

That entire graph is bunk.

>>9685000
He doesn't care if it's bunk because posting it validates his opinions and makes it tedious and frustrating to argue against him. He would cite anything which supports his opinion.

>>9684735
>>9684723
Using anonymity to argue in bad faith is a sin. You will go to hell.

>>9684999
Trips are right, it was a mistake to educate the the working class. Thankfully all his graphs and shit tier studies don't get taken seriously by anyone relevant.

>>9684939
It's still far less than other sources i.e using amazon.

>>9684591
>nobody is implying humans aren't herbivores from...
No, everyone is basically denying that. Humans are and probably always have been omivores. Meat and Plants. There is more to food than saying that's "B12". Something as simple as sugar got so many different different varieties in molecular structures that there are new one found in regular fashion. Same with protein or simply amino-acid in general.

It's kind of like Vanillin. The syntetic re-creation of the vanilla taste. It's obviously Vanilla taste however compared to real Vanilla it's only close but not really the same. On a molecular level Vanillin got the same structure as Vanilla but only in the middle, something is missing on both ends of the structure. That's what the difference makes in taste.

So it's quite logical to asume that when you do not eat meat, there is something missing from your diet that cannot be found anywhere else. Simply because not every molecular structure is know, that is a fact. Anyone saying you don't need meat just doesn't know shit or is lying for some reason.

>>9684963
>hydrogen cyanide
>not doing harm
god, you're stupid. please, drink almon whenever you can! The world is better of without you.

>>9682429
>how does it feel not graduating high school?

Like being a brain stunted vegan

>>9684952
would you kindly explain to me why veganism is prevelant in first world countries? I have lived in the middle east, north africa, and europe. And i only met vegans in europe.
>inb4 anecdotal evidence

>MEATKEKS BTFO VEGANISM IS NATURAL
>but what about B12 and other vitamins
>WE CAN SYNTHESIZE THOSE WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY SHUT UP YOU CAVEMAN

meatcucks will defend this

discord.gg/zU5UcU

>>9685241
>An animal dying
Yes, among non soyboys this is a pretty normal thing to see. Sorry it makes you sad princess.

>>9684590
So what trait do niggers reproduce due to White roasties craving BBC?

>>9685241
You don't get it. For eating meat something obviously has to die. I don't feel anything by seeing a pig die other than excitement for delicious bacon and various pork related dishes. Salvia is collecting in my mouth and I have to watch out I don't drool on my keyboad. Do you understand now?

>>9682417
Most of them aren't like this. Most vegetarians/vegans do know that it's their choice and that they don't have to force it upon you.
Because most of them are actually nice people, who choose not to take part in animal suffering/labor because they really are compassionate.

Also, I've known a few who just didn't eat anything they haven't killed themselves, mostly because, well, look at those slaughterhouse videos.

>>9682416
>Explain "need". Is there some magical property in meat that transcends nutrients and calories?
Your post is an example of that, just look at that passive aggressiveness, which is a result of lower testosterone. If you ate meat you wouldn't say that protein and b12 are magical nutrients but a basic need for existence.

>>9685282
>nice people
I doubt that. The need to eat food is primal and essential instinct. The "ability" to override that natural human behaviour must mean something is broken in those people. To make it short, they have suicidal tendencies. You cannot tell me this doesn't also show in other areas in live and social interaction. Thus I'm pretty sure they aren't "nice people".

>>9685241
The same thing happens to plants, the fact that they don't make noises and faces in your time-perception does not change this fact.

>innocent sheep after vegan harvest

Vegcucks will defend this

>>9685200
Because first worlders literally have no identity due to lack of struggle thus they need to invent struggle whether it's through veganism, allowing hrt for kids to transition, accepting trash tier immigrants and so on. At least that's my theory on it as a 3rd worlder working in UK for last couple of years.

>>9685296
The lactovegetarian hindus breed more than white meat eaters, I don't think it really matters much.

We all pick and chose the instincts to chase.

>>9685478
because of world wide food trade even hindus have a bigger selection of food avaible. it's natural to breed more if there more food avaible. this actually shows there was something lacking before or there wouldn't be a increase in birth rate. best example a sub sahran africans, they're to stupid to even farm so they lacked in food overall, but with foreign aid their population basically exploded.

veganism was just another trendy meme, now that not a niche it's not hipster enough and people go back to real food

>>9683873
It's not a diet. It's normal food consumption for most people in certain regions. He just said eat lean meat if you think the fats are unhealthy. What the fuck.

>>9685296
What the fuck are you going on about ? The ability to override primal behaviors is called "being civilized". Not in the "having manners" sense, it's only the foundation of any working society. You're broken if you CAN'T resist your primal urges. Actually, if you can't refrain from eating meat, you are no better than then animals you eat.

>t. butthurt vegan
Nah, I'm eating ham and cheese while writing this.

>>9685622
There is a difference between controlling yourself and hurting yourself. It's similar to "doing it later" and "not doing it at all". Pretty simple, really. If you wait to make children because you want them to have a better standing in live, it's called civilisation. If you don't make children at all or make many children with no prospect of feeding them you're broken and a uncivilized.

>>9684760
>Vegans live 8-10 years longer buddy.
There is NO science to back this up.
You're pulling it right out of your ass.

>>9684954
No, that image is bullshit, unless they mean the equivalent in beef. Then it might be closer to correct, but I still don't know many people that eat beef every third day.

>>9685677
>Pretty simple, really. If you wait to make children because you want them to have a better standing in live

You reduce their health, you reduce their chances of growing up in a stable family ... all so you have a little more money when you get them? Money which is already not in short supply in the first world if you're not stupid with it.

If you're going to have kids, have them young ... unless you are just rationalizing your desire for freedom from children. We all pick and chose the instincts to chase ...

>>9683158
wow, amazing that australia, nz and switzerland, three countries known for their copious meat consumption have 3-5x higher percentage of vegetarians than UK and US. Swiss are the only ones even comparable to India. I would not have guessed this. Nor Germany being that high. Also a bit surprised italy isn't higher.

>>9683592
>http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#section1
>https://dailyhealthpost.com/4-brain-nutrients-found-only-in-meat-fish-and-eggs-not-plants/

>>9682392
This
>>9682399
>not an argument
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html?zx=67757e04fa288a68
>>9682409
>veganism is clearly SCIENTIFICALLY the superior diet for longevity and well-being
>>9682414
>Explain "need"
>>9685805
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/10/latest-study-shows-that-33-gkg-high.html
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health

>>9682399
>BUT DOOD HUMANS ATE MEAT FOR 2 MILLION YEARS
>ITS HOW WE EVOLVED MAN
>>9682429
>>9684737
>http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
>https://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
>https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
>https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Meat+in+the+human+diet:+an+anthropological+perspective-a0169311689
>People who read books know a fact that vegetarians do not- that at one point in history, the Earth's total population of humans dropped to between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals, due to the eruption of Mt. Toba in Sumatra, which killed off most of the available plant and animal life on Earth in 71,000 BC. During this period of time, humans were confined to an
>extraordinarily small area of Africa that escaped glaciation, where they subsisted on a diet that was "approximately 50-70% meat and 50-30% plants, respectively." This diet was necessitated by the die-off of plants and animals, and the lack of a varied diet that could have been otherwise obtained though plant gathering. It was at this time that the Neanderthal diet came to consist of naught but meat, due to the complete lack of availability of edible vegetation, which likely lasted for at least 1000 years.(Plants/climate)
>>9685805

>>9685200
It's hugely prevalent in India for one. And among Buddhist Asians. There a population higher than that of the US living in poverty and being vegan/vegetarian so I don't know what you're talking about.

If your argument is that eating meat is cheaper then you can compare the meat consumption in the third world to the first world despite the first world having more vegans than most third world countries.

Abstaining completely from meat is a moral argument not an economic one. The richer countries will have access to more diverse moral systems by nature. An african may eat a tenth of the meat as a European on average but is more likely to eat is when he can afford it because he does not have access to the diversity of moralities that the European does.

>>9682361
"My friends and I all play Dungeons and Dragons, therefore everyone seems to be playing Dungeons and Dragons."

>>9682416
>Explain "need".
>>9685839
>>9683560
>>9683579
>Animals store vitamin B12 in liver and muscle and some pass the vitamin into their eggs and milk; meat, liver, eggs and milk are therefore sources of the vitamin for other animals, including people.[5][7][25] For humans, the bioavailability from eggs is less than 9%, compared to 40% to 60% from fish, fowl and meat.[26] Insects are a source of B12 for animals (including other insects and humans).[25][27]
>Animal sources with a significant content of vitamin B12 (range among top 20 sources of 50 to 99 µg per 100 grams)[28] include clams, organ meats (especially liver) from lamb, veal, beef, and turkey, fish eggs, mackerel, and crab meat.[4][5]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Animal_sources
>>9685805

>>9685512
Hindu birth rates have gone down ever since the advent of modern medicine. That they're higher than white birthrates now does not mean that they're not decreasing. As a matter of fact they're pretty close to the American white birth-rate.

>>9682392
Enjoy your cancer and heart disease, fucko.

>>9682361
More people that I know are vegan today, than they were 5 years ago. This is the trend in America as people reject how disgusting and morally wrong factory farming is. I have no idea why you'd imply its a passing fad. It's clearly here to stay, and the number of vegans in the us today is higher than it ever been and accounts for hundreds of millions of animals lives saved every year. Take you (pro)tein shilling elsewhere.

>>9682417
Yeah, ok, fat lard tard.

>>9682361
>>9682392
>>9682399
It's actually indicated more that cooking had more of a impact on the structuring of our brain up until now as well. And we can still get heart disease, atherosclerosis, arterial clotting, and other negative health consequences from meat. True bred carnivores can't obtain those diseases from consuming meat, as well as the fact that there's indeed health benefits shown in trials of those individuals who have practiced veganism for a couple years or longer, even benefits earlier than that. That being said, the issue doesn't lie in the area of "meat is the most healthy and neccesry source of food" for meat eaters, I think it's realistically a couple things, because I'm omnivore.
1. Meat in general is extremely flavorful, even with the most miniscule ingredients. Salt, pepper, etc
2. It's extremely convenient, besides certain legumes, beans, or vegetables being packed with a fair amount of carbs, some of them have a good amount of protein too. But also a fair variety of cuts of meats have a very good helping of protein, fats, and some carbs, and a few fatty acids and b12
3. It's harder to find a vegan substitute that's sasifactory enough for most people. Most of these vega burgers or quinoa burgers or whatever sort of meat replacement don't do a bad job of trying to replicate the meaty texture, in fact, I think some of them do top work on the replication. Even with that, there is the still overbearing vegetable/starch taste residing from that burger, and even with certain spices/sauce, you're still aware of eating a non-meat.

All in all, no it's not necessary for humans to eat meat, and overconsumption of meat even mildly can be dangerous to our health. But sometimes flavor takes precedent over health. This is, in fact, a cooking board, and flavor takes that spot for most people.

>>9682735
Thank you for this. I started being vegan 2 months ago. Count me in the rising statistics and suck my dick, op.

>>9685892
>More people that I know
>that I know

>>9685872
Okay, you explained that animal sources are a good source of b12, but so did other people explain to you that there are good sources for b12 for vegetarians/vegans as well.
>muh animal b12
Seems to be your argument.

>>9684609
I'm vegan. I get my taurine and 200% daily value of 4 different B vitamins from SIPS!
S I P B O Y S 2 0 1 7

>>9683323
>b12 is only found in meat
Holy fuck you're an idiot, the only reason you get those b12 fortified meats from the grocery stores is because they give those animals good amounts of b12 injections and sometimes even in thier food as well. The amount stupidity in this thread, it's ridiculous.

>>9683323>>9685944
By the way, same replier, b12 is a bacteria, not a "complete protein"

>>9685944
this, dubs of truth

>>9683200
Basic science check

phytoestrogens (I.E plant estrogens) do not get converted in the body to estrogen
Mamillian estrogen, which is found in our bodies, also is converted from consuming more of it, say milk, which is packed with it.

>>9682361
>there seems to be
[citation needed] excellent "trump" argument. People are saying...

>>9685913
I'm currently a carnist but sometimes I get the urge to go vegan just to spite these mouth foaming meatcucks who are as annoying as prosletyzing vegans and seem in greater abundance.

Vegetarianism and veganism are only for high IQ and high test alpha males. The typical bloated, obese kids addicted to their nuggies and fast food goy-feed will never understand--but what do you expect from kiddies whose main argument is "muh taste".
>soyboy!!!!
Being fat means YOU produce high estrogen. That's why you have tits.

>>9686121
Lol faggot soyboy detected

>>9682429
Homo Sapiens reminded me of following gem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPrek1oAjG0

>>9684999
Take a business class you fucking moron.

>>9682361
The issue is just that veganism is a huge lifestyle change. It's insanely difficult to pull that kind of thing off.

Vegetarian/vegan movements would have a lot more success if they promoted reducing meat instead of eliminating it entirely

>>9682361
Mental illness, same as homosexuality.

>>9685839
>All blog posts

>>9683323
b12 comes from bacteria in dirt

you could get it from your vegetables if they werent washed so well

>>9685847
>blogs
Kek

I don't believe in pure veganism. I like to push going "90% vegan", and making meat a rarity in your diet. Maybe a once per week or twice per month sort of thing. Cutting back on animal products in general is probably pretty damn good for you, and I seem to feel better the more I cut back. My shits go better, I have more energy in the gym, ect.

I'm completely against factory farming both for the inhumanity of what the animals are put through and for the damage it does to the environment on both local and global scales. Way too much land is dedicated to raising food animals, cattle especially.

I'm hoping that lab-grown meat can fix this, because most human beings seem to lack the agency to make beneficial changes to themselves or the world. They're just going to be lazy and keep doing the same shit in willful, malignant ignorance.

If there's one piece of praise I can throw towards vegans, it's that they have discipline. Meat is delicious, and most people are too addicted to gratification to ever deny themselves anything for the betterment of themselves or their fellow man. A person who can actually walk with their talk is a rare thing.

>>9686391
It's easy as shit.
1. Don't eat meat
2. Have a multivitamin daily
3. Eat more fruits and veggies

>>9686551
Based meat eating gentlelad is based.

>>9686551
This

>>9682409
If it’s so fucking difficult for people to understand how to properly maintain a healthy vegan lifestyle, it must be flawed.
Also, hitler was a vegan faggots

>>9685872
Where do you think animals get the B12 to begin with? Fun fact: its a supplement.

>>9686551
>I'm hoping that lab-grown meat can fix this
I think it will, it'll just take a while. Having a generation of kids grow up with it being available will make them more likely to eat it than an older generation who will think it's unnatural and be afraid of it. Plus maybe a celebrity endorsement might help, or something like that.

My only issue with it is that they're altering the nutrition of it which could be a bad thing. Saying that red meat without heme iron is better, or milk without lactose is better. But if you don't eat red meat often or can digest lactose, there's no benefit in taking them out and it could actually be bad to do so. Some studies have shown that lactose benefits young children, or that it can keep your gut flora healthy.

two army's of retards fighting which thing must be shoved down their food hole

>>9686839
Link your studies