/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>8137957
I don't think that's the way you add up ingredients.

>>8137957
>flax seeds,
Way to ruin it.

>>8137957
When you give these proportions, you're doing it by weight, right?

>>8137978
Baker's percentages. See http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/bakers-percentage.html

>>8137984
I love flax seeds in bread. Big fan.

>>8137991
Yes sir.

>>8137992
Well I'll be damned. Thank you for the civil correction, I'll just tuck this 175% bread joke somewhere else...

>>8137992
How long bake and rise and at what temp? Sorry, bread pleb here.

>>8137999
Baker's percentages made no sense to me when I first started baking by weight. Definitely the most common question I get asked when I post my formulas. Ultimately I think expressing a formula by standard percentages (relative to the whole dough, not just to flour like baker's percentages) would be just as efficient, but common practice is what it is.

>>8138007
That's a tough question to answer. Time is a bad measure for bread baking because of the variability in ambient temperature, ingredient quality, handling, etc. In general, I recommend baking by volume: bulk ferment until double, proof until just under doubled. If it takes 60 minutes to get there, cool. if it takes 8 hours to get there, cool. There are exceptions to these rules, but it will get you started. In regard to the actual baking process, I start the oven at 550F then back it down to 440F as soon as I drop the loaf in the oven. I largely go by crust color to determine when I'm done baking, because by the time it's dark and to my liking the interior is almost certainly done. Particularly large loaves can screw that estimation up, though, so when in doubt use an instant read thermometer and bake lean loaves to 200-205F.

>>8137957
Is the yeast a wild yeast like for sourdough, or a store bought active dry or cake yeast?

>chrook saw numbang

Howdy you filthy, filthy ginger.

It's finally cool enough in my neck of the woods to bake bread after an early summer of daily 38° (101°F) weather since motherfucking May, so I began a new starter last week and plan to bake my first loaf of this winter/autumn season Friday. Just a simple white, crusty loaf. Nothing special.

A Q for U, though: know how some cultures soak glutinous rice in water for a few days or so then blitz them up in the blender with their soaking water to make doughs and batters for like pancakes or flatbreads (like dosa, for example)? Have you heard of anything like that done with wheatcorns rather than rice? I've got lots of wheatcorns and am considering trying to do something like that with them unless you've heard that it doesn't work well.

>>8138024
Instant yeast for this loaf. I just got back from an 8 week business trip and haven't reactivated my sourdough starter yet.

>>8137957
Looks tasty as hell, but I have a question.
Is there a best way to knead bread made with whole wheat?

>>8138136
It's kneaded the same way as bread made using white flour. Are you encountering a particular problem kneading whole wheat bread?

White+yeast on stone with steam.

>>8138412
>>8138083
you answer >>8138082 as i would also like to know

More like FUCK-OFF Flour. You think your god's gift to fucking bread and it makes me sick. You can't even make a decent pizza. Please fucking leave and never come back.

>>8137957
>នំបុ័ង
???

>>8138656
I'll never replicate crust like that in my oven. I've tried using a stone, I've tried a water bath at the bottom of the oven, I tried spraying water into the oven during cooking, I even tried locking the damn thing in a cast iron pot, though that did have the best result of all of them but still not the proper crust.

I just want a proper french bread crust.

>>8139682
I use a normal electric household oven at max, about 250°C. Preheat the stone and water dish. Place dough on stone and water in dish. Lower heat to 180°C after 20 minutes, turn off oven after 40 minutes total, remove from oven after 50-60 minutes total. Visually check the crust without opening the oven to adjust.

>>8139736
And it's not always perfect.

>>8138082
>>8139216
You can definitely mix in softened wheat berries. Not uncommon at all. The famous Danish rugbrod often has whole rye berries in it. Giving them an overnight soak or a few hours steeping in hot water will generally guarantee they cook during the baking process.

>>8138656
Looks awesome.

>>8139279
Good to see you're still fighting the good fight. I'll work on leaving, I promise.

>>8139570
Cambodian for bread.

>>8139682
That's definitely a doable crust in the home oven, with or without a cloche. The key is steam, whether generated through a preheated cast iron pan and boiling water or a cloche, high heat, and not being afraid to let the loaf get dark.

>>8139749
I meant more like soaking the wheatcorns/wheat berries until they're very, very soft then blitzing smooth and adding regular bread flour to make a dough, not leaving them whole. Many flatbreads are made that way, but I wanna try to make a [mostly] wholemeal wheat bread in this manner because I've no mill with which to grind dry wheatcorns into flour.
Any experience with that?

>>8139947
I have never personally done it, but I'm sure it's been done. If you're planning on steeping them in hot water, be aware that they will lose a lot of their "wheat" properties in bread. Give it a shot and report back!

>>8137992
did you not proof at all? I have never seen a 68% hydration bread with such dense crumb

>>8143064
Not him, but pretty sure 100% wholemeal breads just can't get open crumb because the fibre gets in the way of the gluten forming the long chains necessary to trap air bubbles.

>>8143097
Whole grain flour rises fine. When the grain is not ground finely but soaked it's another story, see Pumpernickel.

dumb question: what part of the flour causes it to be so sticky? is it the gluten? would gluten-free flour mixes be easier to work with?

>>8138412

After discovering pita, flatbread, tortilla and all the variations I don't even want to bake normal bread. Flatbreads are easiest and can be done stovetop, my oven is shitty.

>>8143123
We're talking about open crumb v dense crumb and not just risen bread, right? That's what the impression I got was so that's how I responded. I mean, risen bread can still have a dense-looking crumb.
See, every single time I've made wholemeal bread or even just partially wholemeal (like pic related: enriched honey-oat bread 40% oat flour, 10% VWG, 50% bread flour, yielding 14% gluten-protein content total), it's always nicely risen and has a few air bubbles, but nowhere near as many nor as large as when I make a plain white bread.
>pic related was made free-hand and without a loaf pan or brotform, by the way

>>8137957
Are you from Myanmar?

>>8143258
>khmer is now bamar because reasons

>>8137957
that's 175.7%. how'd you break the laws of math with a loaf of bread?

>>8143271
I'm sorry, I mixed the two countries up.
OP, are you Khmer/Cambidian?

>>8143163
Unless you're literally celiac, there is no reason to go with gluten-free.

The starch makes it sticky. The kneading process transforms the starch into gluten, which is rubbery. Which means, if your dough is still sticky and goopy, you need to keep kneading.

>>8143285
He's a freckly ginger IE no.

>>8143319
Excluding rye bread since rye does not form gluten no matter how long you knead it.

>>8143454
So rye flour wouldn't be sticky?

I really like making bread, just hate the cleanup.

>>8143797
Oh please. You have to clean a square yard of counter top, a bowl, and a scraper. Regardless of how you feel about it, it clearly isn't an imposition. If it takes more than 2 minutes then you are doing something wrong.

What does OP's equipment cost? You've inspired me

>>8143849
There are some things you can buy, but for starters and oven, a counter, flour, salt, and yeast will do.

If you start spending money, get a stone for your oven. A mat is nice. Eventually couche and banneton can become relevant. But that's not for everyone.

Really all you need to make bread is the same stuff you need to make pizza.

So... nothing?

>>8143867
Understood. I guess I always associated bread making with special appliances like mixers and bread machines. Grandma had that shit.

>>8143064
>>8143123
That loaf was a 100% coarsely milled whole wheat flour bread. It doubled during proofing.

>>8143454
Please see >>8137992

>>8143163
It is a mixture of flour type, stage of gluten development, and hydration.

>>8143357
In all fairness I only have a red beard. No red hair or freckles. I'm only partially soulless.

>>8143849
I've spent too much money on equipment. I have a flour mill, a commercial mixer, a wood fire oven, and more various bread toys than I'd care to admit. The truth of the matter is that you can make excellent bread at home with little more than the ingredients, an oven, and a sheet pan.

>>8143892
>forgetting what FF really stands for
freckly forearms

>>8143952
I'll take it.

Decided I wanted to do something sweet but leavened with yeast. Put this together last night:

100% flour
40% whole milk
20% egg yolk
5% butter
2.5% salt
1.0% yeast
+ handful of chocolate chips

Let it bulk ferment overnight then baked this morning at 325F until internal temp was ~185F. They're killer.

>>8145422
Oh, forgot an important part of that recipe. There was also 15% white sugar.

>>8137957
Are flax seeds a meme?

>>8145427
Add syrup to the pan and let it soak.
Add frosting on top.

Anybody have a link that video of the spanish woman folding bread? Trying to show it to a friend. She says "fat fingers" instead of thumbs and the video was in spanish with subtitles

>>8145456
Nevermind found it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUZ0O-Wv0Q

Mein brot. 50% whole wheat 50% white bread flour, 60% water, didn't bother to measure the yeast or salt by weight.
It's okay. Crust could be better.

>>8145428
Randy, I am the meme.

>>8145436
Nice thought. Didn't want them to wind up being too sweet. They turned out great.

>>8145456
>>8145938
Great video of the slap and fold technique. Dedos gordos (aka fat fingers) is how you say thumbs in Spanish.

>>8146722
Looks awesome.

Decided to make some crappy cafeteria-style pizza for a family get together today. Here's the formula:

100% bread flour
55% water
10% extra virgin olive oil
2.7% salt
0.5% yeast

Should make a soft, fluffy crust that's more cakey than it is open and rubbery. Usually winds up pretty tasty.

Picture also features my proofing container.

Is making your own bread a good poorfag strat?

>>8148423
It's the best. A huge loaf of bread costs me ~$1. Even less if I mill my own flour.

>>8148423
Absolutely. My loaves are usually ~4 cups flour made weekly, and a 5lb bag of flour that lasts weeks only costs like $4 if I'm getting the good stuff. You get even better deals if you buy those hugeass 50lb sacks, but I don't have a car so that's not an option for me. >>8148313
Thanks! I always walk away from bread feeling a little dissatisfied (oh I could have done this better or that different), but that's how we improve I suppose

>>8148447
Is making sour dough or french bread especially hard or anything?

Whats a good starter white bread recile

>>8148503
>$4 for the good stuff
>not stocking up on king arthur every december when it's $2 per 5lb sack
Do you even bake?

>>8148423
Wheat flour is the single most under-utilised source of protein and it's damned cheap, too. If you're truly poor, you can buy ghetto-brands of flour, like Save-A-Lot or Aldi (5lbs/$1.39 or so) and make seitan out of it.
After you make your seitan, you can slice it up and stir-fry it with vegetables or something. One sack of flour provides 239g of protein. Compare that to 2lbs of black beans (192g), a dozen eggs (96g) or a half pound of chicken breast (50g), all of which are around the same price as a 5lb sack of flour.

>>8137957
Do you make your own sourdough starter or just go off of pre bought yeast?

>>8148317
I'm more interested in your means of cooking it. Pizza stone? How hot is your oven? How long did you cook it for?

Did you do it deep dish style since it's a fluffier crust? If so what did you cook it in?

And for fun, what toppings?

>>8148503
It's the beauty of bread making. Most everything is edible and impresses everyone else, but there's ALWAYS room for improvement.

>>8148504
Sourdough is advanced breadmaking. Bread leavened with commercial yeast is easy peasy.

>>8148518
Google NY Time No-Knead Bread. It's a great start with artisan bread, and dead simple.

>>8148978
I make my own sourdough culture, but recently have been using commercial yeast because my culture died while I was out of town on business.

>>8149365
My standard pizza is 100% flour, 80% water, 2.5% salt, 0.2% yeast. I bake that at 550F (max temp in my oven) with convection on a stone. This dough yields a much more approachable delivery-style dough, as it has a lot of fat in it. As a result, I bake it, in general, at 450F until browned to my liking. For the party today, I put it in a half sheet pan and topped with pepperoni on one pizza, and mushrooms on the other. Baked at 450F for the first 10 minutes then dropped to 400F. No pizza stone. Baked about 25m total.

>>8149424
Oh that pizza looks great. The pizza I usually like has a thin crust. Traditional. However, no one else in my family likes this, especially my mother who has sensitive teeth. They prefer deep dish.

I've been looking for a delivery style dough recipe with a bread like crust and that looks perfect.

I'll give that a try.

>>8137992
This crumb looks like shit.

>>8149567
>not saying that it looks crumby

>>8148504
It's definitely advanced beginner stuff. You need to have an understanding of the processes in the dough to get good results with either, although misses won't be inedible.

Sourdough requires a living culture. You can make your own and it costs nothing, but you have to do it. The trick to making quality sourdough is to know your starter and how to best use it. They generally take longer than industrial yeast and the amount of leaven is much more crucial. Too little and it's compact, too much and it tastes poorly. With just yeast you can have a more nonchalant approach, too much won't hurt and too little is hard to do, it's so potent.

French bread requires even more precision. The gluten needs careful handling but also a lot of kneading. The structure needs much more tension so a folding technique has to be learned or created. It needs to be shaped before the final rise and then transferred to the oven without hurting the wobbly structure. They're very high hydration doughs and are very sticky which makes them a pain to handle. And you need specially ground fine flour.

You'll get good results with a simple no knead bread, but a decent baguette is an art. It can be done, I've seen pictures in these threads. But for a beginner it's a lot of frustration and too much to learn at once. It will take many attempts to get French breads right if it's how you begin to learn baking.

>>8137984
>not eating tons of flax seeds for the Omega-3s
I pity you dawg

hey FF, big fan. just wondering what you think about these proportions for potato rolls

- 325g flour (half all-purpose, half pastry)
- 260g water
- 4g salt
- 12g yeast
- 12g honey
- 50g butter
- 50g egg yolks
- 75g mashed potatoes (no butter)

3 mins mix with paddle attachment, three rounds of stretching and folding the dough for a couple minutes at a time. overnight ferment. baked 420 degF for 27 mins total, 15 mins in a covered dutch oven, 12 mins uncovered with eggwash.

>>8148596
>King Arthur
>not type 55
Do you?

>>8150727
>he thinks """"""""""""""""type 55""""""""""""""" is some special sort
Nigga, that's regular ol' flour.

>>8148504
>>8149934
>sourdough

You can start a culture by simply adding equal part water and whole wheat flour to a plastic container, then add a little yeast and let it ferment overnight.

Add your whole wheat portion to the starter tub, with very warm water, and let it ferment overnight, then dump that portion into your recipe (get a digital scale) and knead it up and let it rise. The starter goes back in the fridge for next time. I use whole wheat in the starter because all bread should have some whole wheat flour, whole wheat is more nutritious for us and the yeast, and fermentation damages the gluten structure, so I leave the bread flour out of it as long as I can.

>>8150788
>add a little yeast
Nope

Ever bring any bought yeast near your starter, and it's no longer sourdough but just industrial yeast.

The virtue of sourdough is in its cultures of yeasts and lactobacili. They reach a very stable balance after a while. But bought yeast will still kill them all in hours.

All you are doing is grow your own factory yeast culture. It won't be sour, and it won't be very stable. It'll bake bread no problem, I have tried it. But it has little flavor and absolutely no acidity.

And unless you optimize your feeding cycles and growing conditions to a point where it's a full time job, it will never be as potent again as that wet yeast packet from the store.

>>8149567
I agree completely with >>8149598. Huge missed opportunity.

>>8149934
Baguettes are, in my opinion, the HARDEST bread to nail. I've probably personally made well over 3000 loaves of bread in my lifetime, and to this day hand-made baguettes are still the sketchiest thing I attempt.

>>8150307
Looks delicious to me! You may find the dough hard to stretch and fold with the addition of potatoes. They tend to turn the dough from an extensible material into something ultra sticky and pasty. End result is always awesome, though. It's hard to argue with the soft and smooth crumb that comes from potato bread. An alternative to achieve a similar texture is to make a tangzhong, where a water/flour roux is made and cooked, then added to the dough. Similar result: the cooked starch inhibits gluten formation and you get a very silky crumb.

>>8150788
I'm in agreement with >>8150952 on this. I have a strict no-commercial-yeast policy when I'm working with sourdough. I never put it in my culture, and I never add it in addition to the levain in my breads. When you add commercial yeast you are essentially just making a simple preferment (biga, poolish, etc). Still a great technique that yields exceptional results, but it's not the same as a levain.

>>8151079
see >>8148842
and let us know if this sounds about right to you, my freckly forearmed friend

>>8151079
>>8150952
>commercial yeast

my starter, which was started with commercial yeast, has been going strong for many months. I have no used commercial yeast since. So is my starter some how inferior? I don't think so.

>>8139682

pop it in an iron pot, then when it's "ready" just pop it in the oven without the iron pot until you have a dark brown surface on your bread.

>>8151079
About sourdough, I'm really curious how a bottom-fermenting yeast like they use for lagers would do. Less aggressive obviously, but supposedly does best around 50°f. Seeing as how I'm looking to get into sourdoughs and my house gets pretty chilly around wintertime, it might be worth my while.

>>8151299
Is it sour?

You are just raising yeast. And without lactobillus it will be prone to infections, watch out for mold.

It is possible to arrive at a stable culture from bought yeast. It just isn't likely. That yeast isn't made to go into symbiosis with lactobacillus.

As stated, I have done this. The result was stable enough, but inferior to cheapass store bought fresh yeast.

And it will never arrive at that nice flavor profile you get from airborne yeasts which come with unsterilized flour.

>>8151299
It's not that it's inferior. It's that it's not a sourdough in the true sense. You're essentially culturing commercial yeast, which is a completely different animal from wild yeast and bacteria. Nothing wrong with it. If it produces good bread, then that's all that matters.

>>8151331
Never tried it. I think the better bet is to set yourself up with a proofing container of some kind and stick with regular ol' sourdough. You can see some of mine in >>8148317. Mine consists of an insulated container (collapsible cooler), a small electric heating mat, and a temperature-controlled outlet with thermocouple. It's set up so that whenever the temp in the cooler drops below 80F, power to mat switches on and gently brings the temp back up to 80F. Total setup cost me ~$50.

>>8151447
do eeeeeeeeeeeeet: >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092 >>8151092

Redpill me on oat flour, bread masters. Can I replace some of my wheat flour with it? Will it screw up the structure in the same way that rye flour seems to?

In an unrelated note, what are those seeds that they put on top of flatbread in a lot of Indian restaurants? It reminds me of cumin, but it's definitely different.

>>8151079
I'm potato roll guy, glad you approve. created the recipe myself from reading On Food and Cooking + Artisan Breads Every Day. I need to try baking this bread with some high protein flour and see how it turns out.

https://stavvers.wordpress.com/2015/11/23/im-making-sourdough-with-my-vaginal-yeast/
Is this a good recipe?

Decided to use some of the leftover ingredients to make a totally different kind of pizza for dinner tonight. This one is my standard 80% hydration dough. Roasted potatoes and shallots as a topping.

>>8151092
>>8151475
Sorry, bud. Missed the previous post. To be honest with you, it's tough to determine what values the poster used for weight to volume conversion. I'm also not sure if canned pumpkin is 90% water, though I suppose that's possible. Best way to figure it out is to try it and see how you like it. Post up with results and we can fine tune it.

>>8151889
Oat flour has a great mouth feel and taste, but it is not a replacement for wheat. It has 0 gluten, so it will not stabilize oven rise like wheat flour does. I like to add it in in small amounts (<10% by weight), but it will certainly produce a denser and more cakey crumb. The seeds to which you are referring may be caraway.

>>8152144
On Food and Cooking is a stellar book. It's the one I recommend to anyone who expresses an interest in the science of food. It's no Fennema's, but it demystifies a lot of the magic of baking and cooking in a really engaging and understandable way. That book is what started me on my trajectory into cooking and then into food chemistry.

>>8152198
Gross.

>>8152707
>potato pizza
I could have lived happily in the belief that those are mushrooms.

I bought bread flour to make pizza dough. Did I fuck up? Also, how far ahead should I make the dough?

>>8155485
Not sure what 'bread flour' advertises but you shouldn't run into any problems regardless.

Minimum 45 minutes before baking, pros retard their dough for a few days in the fridge.

>>8146722
This looks good, but is that crumb pretty much the limit for 50% or greater whole wheat breads?

>>8150276
>all those estrogens

Good job fag

>>8156809
>imblying phytoestrogens do anything
Filthy degenerate tranny here to tell you that if they did I wouldn't be paying through the nose for spiro and progesterone

popping in to say thanks for good thread op.

what is the mill you have? interested in one myself.

any experience with white whole wheat? its pretty much all i bake with these days for my standard loaf

>>8153839
Sorry, my friend. I dig potatoes on pizza.

>>8154113
>>8155156
Looks great.

>>8155485
Bread flour is preferable for pizza, in my opinion. The dough can be made anywhere from 2-72 hours prior to baking, depending on formula and fermentation temperature.

>>8157330
Thanks. I have a KoMo Classic.

>>8157717
>82% hydration
Impressive!

>>8157717
Don't take this the wrong way, because your bread looks OP as hell compared to what I make from time to time, but a lot of yours look rock-hard on the outside. Do you just prefer it that way, or does it help keep them from molding longer?

>>8158386
Not him but

It keeps them from going stale longer. If your bread regularly catches mold you should store it differently.

It is a much more intense flavor than the crumb. That browning is all Maillard reaction.

It's a different culture. I don't like chewy bread because my family never ate it. We call it toast because it's for the toaster. It isn't done yet.

If you want the full flavor but soft crust then just put the bread in a plastic bag for a few hours. That reliably ruins any crust.

>>8160218
looks like a fossilized bug

>>8160249
SO DOES YOUR MOM

Who /bannock/ here?

Made these loaves yesterday, pardon the Snapchat nonsense, only picture I got before they were consumed

>>8160249

Guys, do You have any experience with gluten-free bread?
My Cute3.14 GF is celiatic, so she cannt eat it. Also it needs to be lactose free and can not contain corn or corn flour or soya (I know a lot of conditons, but she has serious health problems if she eats something of it (asthma, thyroid problmes,...)).
We baked first time our own bread, but it is quite low, doesnt have a lot of bubbles inside, and it is quite heavy, You know, it is not fluffy. Do You have any ideas how to make it more like normal bread, how to trap bubbles from yeast inside?
Thx for any advice
>Inb4U: Find another GF.
> Nope.

>>8162624
Well, you have a couple options. As you seem to understand, gluten is what traps the gas inside bread and makes it fluffy.
Your options are to replace gluten, or make a bread that doesn't need to be fluffy.
Unleavened breads are super easy compared to leavened ones and are generally quite tasty especially when fresh and soft. There's a great tradition of crepes, pancakes, and other flatbreads in regions that grow mostly buckwheat, oats or amaranth. Try making pita bread or something similar.
You could also experiment with quickbreads. Since most of those are basically more like batters than doughs they usually work well with gluten-free flour.
Alternatively, add xantham gum and/or eggs or flax seeds to your breads to replace the gluten network not found in gluten free flours. It will take a LOT more effort than with glutinous flour, but you might be able to make a fluffy bread.

t. Baker with celiac sister

>>8137957
Jesus! Did you put enough seeds on it?!

Wood fired oven bro here.

Just baked these bad boys. Used a rye/spelt starter.

Didnt get as good oven spring as i usually get.

Any tips for bulk fermenting overnight, like using a fridge to retard?

Or did i screw up at either proofing or loading the loaves into the oven?

>>8163894
If it was my sourdough I'd call that crumb a success.

>>8163916
Thanks. The crumb was pretty open but ive had better oven springs like pic.

>>8163894
That picture seems like it would be tasty, has a great crumb and perfect crust. If my bread comes out flatter or disc-like, I usually blame it on over-proofing. Try cutting down your bulk fermentation and proofing times or messing with temperature and see if that helps.

Just made pizzas. Italian meat lovers: Guanciale, Salami, and pepperoni

>>8164936
Wrong pic

Btw FF bro, what are your deck and wall temps for your WFO when baking bread?

Cause i baked pizza today at around 8pm getting the oven temp up to 1000F. Im planning to bake bread in the morning, any tips? Should i re fire it a bit while the bread is proofing?

Bump

Corn bread is best bread

>>8165309
not him, but probably want deck temp around 500 depending on size of loaf and all. walls may be higher but that's okay

>>8166457.
Mah nigga. Shit's tasty and quick.

>>8166462
Ya. I got my deck to around 565 but i let the bread in the oven covered by the oven door for a little too long before rotating. Oven spring was amazing though

>>8166703
While they look pretty bad, surface burns are never too much of a hindrance to taste.
My grandma was the one who taught me how to bake bread, and whenever I burned something she'd always smile and tell me that charcoal was good for your liver, and cut a big slice of the blackest part for herself.
She also loved cold eel on toast though, so no accounting for taste.

Got a 10% whole grain wheat at about 80% hydration starting on the yeast after a night of autolysis. And it's damn cold. I took it out of the fridge this morning and it's still no warmer. So I put it in the oven on lowest now, well below 60°C.

I can't wait to bake. I love wheat and yeast, it always works. I might use a portion to make pizza.

>>8166878
That bread isn't burned. That little charring can be brushed right off.

Did your grandma suffer from cancer? Because that shit's carcinogenic. Burned bread isn't activated charcoal.

Here's a crumbshot

>>8166885
Advice for next time: If your house runs warm (75+) bulk ferment for 4-6 hours at room temp, and let it ferment in the fridge overnight. Then proof at room temp after shaping

>>8167009
I don't ferment yeast over night. Autolyse, yes, but the yeast is fast.

>>8166885
The first loaf has a nice oven spring, working on crust now.

>>8157906
Freshly milled flour is very, very thirsty. The 82% hydration in that loaf felt like 75% with most other bread flours.

>>8158386
I like dark, crusty bread. I'm sure it serves other purposes, but purpose #1 is my tastebuds.

>>8160218
>>8161302
Looks great.

>>8161302
Also looks delicious.

>>8162624
The nature of gluten-free bread means that it either has the eggy texture of angel-food cake, or the crumbly/dense texture of layer cake. Neither is particularly pleasant if you're aiming for an artisan-style loaf with an open crumb. There are plenty of edible gluten-free starch options, but I don't think that there exists a gluten-free bread that recapitulates standard wheat-based bread.

>>8163602
No.

>>8152707
>Fennema's

Thanks for the recommendation, ordered it on amazon.

>>8167262
AHHHHH

looks FUCKING choice FF

wish I could hang out and learn from you IRL man

>>8163894
Looks great to me. I bulk ferment overnight frequently. The key is to still bulk ferment until doubled, even if that takes overnight in the fridge and all day the next day while the dough comes up to temp. If you short that, you're going to wind up with subpar bread. There have been times where I've used very little leavener, bulk fermented overnight, and required >10h at room temp to get adequate bulk fermentation the next day.

>>8164942
Yum.

>>8165309
I take my oven to 900F for pizza, then let it cool down to a floor temp of 500F for bread, then down to a floor temp of 400F for overnight slow-roasting of meat.

>>8166457
Wrong.

>>8166703
Definitely a standard issue with wood fire ovens. It's imperative to keep a close eye on the bread and rotate often since the walls can really put an uneven scorch on the final product. I've done it many, many times. Very frustrating.

>>8167262
Forgot to set name to FF.

I'm about to delve into bread making for the first time, figured I'd make no-knead pretzels.

From what I gather, as long as I throw into a bowl some flour, salt, sugar, and yeast and mix with water until a mass forms, the dough forming/rising process will be complete without me needing to knead it if I let it sit over night?

>>8167290
Hold the sugar.
I add the yeast the next day. It isn't needed for the gluten to form.

Pretzels can be tricky to shape. If it turns out too challenging just make rolls instead.

>>8166896
>that little charring can be brushed off
>charred
>not burned
I mean it's certainly not badly burnt, and as I said I'm sure it tastes good which is all that matters, but ????
I think it's only burnt meat that's carcinogenic, but who knows. It's moot, anyway, since she died in a gas explosion.

>>8167264
It's the best. It's just also a true food chemistry book, so it's very dense. More approachable than a standard chemistry textbook, though.

>>8167270
Come on over.

>>8167290
Welcome to the fold. Sounds like you're using the no-knead technique. Given sufficient time, the gluten network will form both via mechanical energy from the rise and from the nature of the proteins suspended in a water-rich environment. The biggest mistake when doing no-knead bread (or pretzels, in this case) is using too much yeast. If you throw in too much yeast, it doesn't have enough time to form a good gluten network before the yeast loses its leavening power. Post up when it's done!

>>8167322
>died in a gas explosion
Brutal.

>>8167229
First loaf went great. Just popped the second one in. This one has sunflower seeds!

>>8167342
Cooling

>>8167485

>>8167322
That's sudden.
And somehow badass.

>>8167337
So for rotating the bread, how would that be possible for the initial 20 minutes where the door has to be closed for proper oven spring?

>>8167722
You can't touch it until the crust has formed anyway. That's after 15-20 minutes. It's for baking through and for browning the crust by regulating temperature. No problem turning it then. You just angle under one corner and push or pull.

Seems like a good place to ask. When dealing with pancake recipes, if using pancake mix, does the pancake mix already contain baking powder/soda if it has 'leavening' in it?

>>8167881
Yes. Bicarbonate.

>>8167934
Okay, so if the Leavening in the pancake mix I'm using is made of Sodium Bicarbonate, Monocalcium Phsophate, and Non-GMO Corn Strarch, I'm covered as far as baking soda/powder goes in the recipe? Is this because Monocalcium phosphate acts as the acid to form the baking powder?

>>8167953
Or just make these:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2iWUUcW08ac

>>8167953
Really a ready made mix is expensive and usually bad. Just mix egg, flour, and milk in random parts, add a pinch of salt and baking powder, and then fry or bake. It's the simplest batter to make.

Anyone here make croissants? How annoying and difficult are they?

>>8138012

Do you use a proofing box?

>>8168619
Puff pastry at home is a mistake. It's possible, but ludicrous. You have to roll 2 different doughs out thin, then layer them.

Just buy ready made puff pastry and make croissants from that, or buy croissants.

>>8167722
>>8167744
I actually think that enough crust has formed to make the loaf movable after about 3-5 minutes. The problem with moving it that early, however, is that the interior of the loaf is still very delicate and you can risk disrupting the seed bubbles that will promote aggressive oven spring. I usually only rotate once halfway through, but it's important to be vigilant because the walls will torch a loaf on the quick if you're not careful. The thing that's nice about a wood fire oven is that by the time you're baking bread, most of the heat is generated by the insulated floor and walls. That means opening the door to look at things isn't going to be as deleterious to oven temp as it is with a conventional home oven.

>>8168619
I make them a few times a year. I've never heard of the method to which >>8169007 is referring, though. Croissants (and danishes, kouign amann, and puff pastry) are made from laminated dough. The method is straight forward, but it is tedious. First, mix a lean dough and roll out into a large rectangle. Second, roll out a block of butter to 1/3 of the dough rectangle side, place in the middle of the dough, and fold the dough in thirds over top. Third, proceed with 3-5 cycles of rolling the dough out to a large rectangle, folding in thirds, and then resting in the refrigerator for 30m-1h to keep the butter hard. This generates all the little layers of dough and butter that produce the incredible texture of these pastries. Attached is a photo of some kouign amann I made a few months ago.

>>8168665
Yes. You can see a picture of it here: >>8148317. A description of its construction is available here: >>8151447.

>>8137978
nice try buddy boy

bump for bready bread

First attmept at making dough and baking bread in general, aimed for pretzels.

The shape is hard to retain because the dough would remain sticky even after rubbing more flour in when rolling them out after the dough had rose, and the holes would close in even after trying to stretch them wide without making the strands snap.

When I dunked them in the baking powder water to give them the crustiness, some fell apart and I eventually just re-rolled/shaped them into rolls/balls/singular mass.

Next time I'll probably just try and stick with pretzel bites/knots/rolls.

>>8137957
looks good as fuck my man

>>8170548
Hint--wet hands are better than floury hands

>>8170801
Doesn't water make the dough stickier? I thought flour = firming the dough, water = making it loose/sticky?

Don't believe me, try it for yourself. Run your hands under warm water and make sure they're proper damp when handling the dough. Works like a charm.

>>8170828
Sticky dough is good dough. A dough that is no longer sticky is poorly hydrated.

As long as the gluten is developed the stickiness isn't much of a problem because the elasticity keeps it consolidated.

I stretch very sticky 80% hydration wheat dough on the counter because it sticks to the mat too much. It's a mess, but one that is easy to control. One pass with the scraper will collect any remaining mess and return it to the dough. Fingers get sticky but as long as I don't squeeze the dough the amount stuck to them when I'm done folding is less than a tablespoon full.

I think it is an instinctive panic to have one's hands disabled by a sticky mass. But beyond that psychology it's really not much of a problem in the kitchen. If your sticky dough resists sticking together then maybe the gluten hasn't developed. Use wheat, get better flour, and let it autolyse for a night before making dough.

Anyone have good challah recipes?

What am i doing wrong if the crumb is too dense and i dont get enoug oven spring?

>>8171658
>gluten
time and agitation: rubber structure
>yeast
time and temperature: bubbles
>hydration
more means more spring
>heat
as hot as it goes for 10-20minutes, then lower

>>8137992
Shits dense yo

>>8171658
Probably over- or underfermenting. Poke the dough as you're about to put it in the oven. If your finger leaves a big dent that doesn't spring back at all, it's likely overfermented. If the dent springs back all the way like a rubber ball, it's likely underfermented. You want a little bit of a spring still left in the dough, but not too much.

>>8162974
>>8167262
thanks guys

>>8171658
use hot tap water. This will wake up the yeast.

>>8172030
>>8172266
>>8172424
thanks for the info