/ck/ - Food & Cooking

So what exactly is this? You have a generic filename and don't tell us what it is, and you expect us to have a discussion about it?

>>7867886
I know a certain someone who will probably buy one and review it.....poorly.

>>7867936

Pretty sure it's some kind of sous vide machine.

>>7867936
Some boil in the bag device

https://www.chefsteps.com/joule/hardware

>>7867886
Utterly useless. My tap gets up to 125F, and that plus a bit of boiling water in a cooler cooks sous vide just as well as a machine. Only retarded faggots pay for a sous vide machine desu

>>7867940
>poo in the shirt

>>7868037
No it doesn't. Have you actually even done this? $200 is not a lot of money, and I'm happy to pay it multiple times over to get actual temperature control vs. Anon's mystery heat bucket.

the way of the future

>>7868037
Good luck doing anything long term with that.

What would happen if I just put my meat in a large pot of water in the oven set to a certain temperature? Won't that be exactly the same?

>>7868219
99% of ovens don't go below 200 F and it would melt the vacuum/ziplock bag

>>7868204
>measure the temperature of the tap water with an ordinary thermometer
>boil some water
>mix the boiling water with the tap water in the correct ratio to get the desired temperature
>place inside thick styrofoam container for insulation
If you want to compensate for heat loss through the insulation, you can measure the rate of heat loss, time the cooking, and add more boiling water as needed.
If you're cooking enough that heat loss to the substance cooked becomes an issue, you need to either take a guess, or install an actual thermometer to your kitchen calorimeter.

>>7868221
My oven goes to 50 degrees Celsius (122F)? And how would it melt the plastic bag if it's underwater?

>>7868232
>tfw you need to be Steven hawking to cook a steak

>>7868233
>My oven goes to 50 degrees Celsius (122F)?
Then do it in your oven

>>7868240
So sous vide machines are a scam, since there's already an appliance in my kitchen that can do the same job just as easily

>>7868247
For you, yes. For 99% of the population that doesn't have an oven that does that, no.

I have a sous vide but 90% of the time I use it for yogurt. Sometimes for steaks and roasts and occasionally for a big project.

>>7868252
Watch some ChefSteps shit. There are some interesting things you can do with it that you normally wouldn't think to do.

>>7868248
I refuse to believe 99% of ovens can't go below 90C. I don't think I've ever seen an oven that can't. The oven at my parents house goes to 50C, and my girlfriends oven, her parents oven and my grandparents oven go to at least 70C. Have I just been exposed to god tier ovens all my life?

>>7868258
The minimum for most ovens in the US is 200. Some go as low as 170.

>>7867886
C-can I get it for android?

>put pot of water on stove
>stick thermometer in water
>adjust heat until I reach temp i want

Holy fuck, what a revolutionary new idea!

>>7868248
My oven can. My mothers oven could. My grandparents (both sides) could. You've been meme'd

>>7868236
>tfw you can't do high school physics

>a jew hipster who can't pronounce anything in any language
Why should I like that kike?

>>7868290
Even so, it still won't work.

>>7868273
>>7868232
Have fun doing something longer than 8 hours that way

>>7868258
Broken and gathering dust in a corner, but this old piece of shit starts at 100 Celsius.

>>7868236
i'm guessing steven doesn't cook his own steaks

>>7868258

mine bottoms out at about 65C and i used to fuck around with opening the door to get lower. one time i had a steak at 55 for a whole day and in the last six hours my sister came downstairs, saw the pencil lodged in the door and took it out before writing an angry note about me giving us all lead poisoning/causing an explosion. the steak was ruined.

>>7868037

i also cooked a turkey ballotine this way for a christmas meal. for 10 hours i repeatedly boiled/ladelled off enormous panfuls of water to keep the temperature constant. i did this while preparing all the other sides and shit starting at midnight. it wasn't worth it.

>>7868273

i also have done this many a time. do you guys realise how much of a fucking ballache all of this shit is? it's just about ok doing it with something small and tender that takes a couple of hours to cook, but i've been through all this shit with products of all shapes and sizes. i've done a rolled porchetta in a fish kettle in the oven for 36 hours. i've cooked stuffed calamari in my bedroom. i never got quite as far as 72 hour shortribs, but that wasn't for lack of trying, i just had bags break on me in tragic accidents.

230 dollars is fucking cheap for a simple solution like this. you're welcome to make your own setup, but denying the convenience of a pump and PiD controlled heat source is just fucking stupid. i don't have a joule and i'm not shilling for them, i have an anova that hasn't failed yet. go on a shopping spree between radio shack and an aquarium shop if you want to do it DIY, but for fuck's sake do not try to low temp oxtail on your stove or in your oven or in a beer cooler with a kettle, your happiness is more fucking important.

I want this meme to end.

>>7868363
>230 dollars is fucking cheap for a simple solution like this
I agree. It's strange, you never see people sperging out this hard about stand mixers ($300-400 for a quality one), good knives ($150+ for just a chef's knife), or any other culinary tools that are more than what a minimum wage worker makes in a day.

Amateurs. All of you.

Why are you not just using your dishwasher?

Thank me later

Is sous vide actually applicable in commercial kitchen?

>>7868376
>stand mixers
Do a job much faster.
>good knives
Knives are quintessential to cooking. Good ones are still fairly cheap. Plenty of people shit on 300 dollar knives.

Sous vide is a meme. Takes literally hours to cook when a little bit of experience, skill, and technique will produce the same results. Reverse searing will give you the same result in a steak and is just as easy.

>>7868384
>an hour for a decent sized steak
No.

>>7868384

yes, extremely applicable.

>>7868385

>an hour for a decent sized steak

it's not how long it takes, it's how reliable and scalable it is.

also learn what 'quintessential' means.

>>7868384
high level restaurants do it all the time...
where do you think this technique came from? NASA?

>>7868384
Yes. Michelin starred restaurants commonly employ the method. Heston Blumenthal called it one of the greatest advancements in the last few decades.

>>7868385
>Do a job much faster.
And a circulator will facilitate the job just as a stand mixer facilitates mixing dough.

>>7868390

>high level restaurants

Welcome to Noma. Here is your appetizer.

>>7868390
Gastronomists (aka businessmen) who wanted to sell their powders and machines at a premium, probably.

>>7868392
yeah okay Chris Young

>>7868394

note: not done sous vide

>>7868396
Not an argument

>>7868392

>greatest advancements in the last few decades.

Its heating food in plastic baggies. Its how fast food restaurants heat up the soups they store in the freezer.

Sous Vide is the "put everything in gelatin" of this decade. Give it another 20 years and people will be looking back on it and laughing their asses off that "high level chefs" would cook things in plastic bags in a pot of water.

>>7868408

>Its heating food in plastic baggies

fundamentally the actual 'advancement' comes from people working out how to use this method in combination with precise temperatures to get specific results. when you look at a piece of beef and instead of picking a doneness from rare to well done you pick from 50C to 80C for from 90 minutes to 72 hours with specific expectations of that range of results, it changes how you cook.

>>7868412

You can keep making exscuses all you want.

You are still cooking food in plastic bags, and I am still going to laugh at you for it. Its TV dinner tier cooking.

>>7868438

what am i excusing?

would you take it more seriously if a material other than plastic was used?

>>7868408
You can rail against it all you want, but when the industry leaders including Keller, Blumenthal, and Adria as well as people like Nathan Myhrvold advocate for it and say it's a game changer, no one's going to even give a second thought about how you react to it.

>>7868385
>>7868408

this is plain wrong

sous vide allows you achieve identical results with protein cookery across all skill levels of staff. it also speeds things up during service, despite what you may think

>600g rib eye
>seal in bag with butter thyme and garlic clove
>cook rare at 57C then rapidly cool
>pop it in a 55C bath just before service
>get steak on order, remove from bath and give it a quick grill/torch
> 5 minutes after mains called away, your steak is ready

>duck breast
>score skin, seal in bag with seasonings
>cook 58C for 40 mins & rapidly cool
>put in 55C bath just before service
>"one duck new order"
>cut open bag, render skin and you're ready to send in under 10'mins

sous vide ensures meats are cooked perfectly every single fucking time with way less margin for error. also sous vide means the meat doesn't lose juice at all during cooking so is weightier and more juicy than its traditionally cooked counterpart

tldr consistently perfectly done meat really fucking fast. are you fucking retarded

>>7868447

> also sous vide means the meat doesn't lose juice at all during cooking

no it doesn't. meat cooked to a specific temperature is gonna lose juice, even if it's vacuum sealed. it can reabsorb some of those juices if the temperature is ramped down slowly, but a steak cooked in a water bath to 55C vs a steak cooked in an oven to 55C is gonna lose the same amount of juice, all things being equal.

>>7868456
I'm talking juice loss compared to a conventionally grilled(not oven slow cook) steak vs sous vide

>>7868456
>steak cooked in an oven to 55C is gonna lose the same amount of juice, all things being equal.
at 55C° in an ofen is more "drying" then "cooking" you make jerky like this...
I would wrap it in plastic too...

on the other hand 55C° is to risky if you don't work under clean conditions or if the neat is not top quality (a restaurant in Germany had 20 customers in the hospital because they eat 12h sous-vide roastbeef ...

>>7868447

Ah, so its a thing for retards who cant cook properly and produce a consistent product without a machine controlling the temp and cooking the food for them.

Gotcha.

>>7868456
it's not the vac sealing that prevents fluid loss it's the gentle low temp cooking. as opposed to raging hot grill

>>7868247

What about cost to opperate?

>>7868471
imagine you own a restaurant and can't be there every service.

hire an expensive and experienced chef for your grill section

or

hire a recently qualified young chef for considerably lower $ and do your meats sous vide

???

>>7868471
>muh skills! muh pride
reality vs ego

>>7868471
No, but since now you're being intentionally obtuse because you know you've lost there really isn't any point in carrying on any further.

>>7868394
I don't think Rene even sous-vides, ironically. Neither do Magnus or David Kinch unless it's something really simple like eggs. Not even proteins. What else do these "top" restaurants do besides spend a disproportionate amount of time and energy to heat ingredients to a certain temperature just so it can be finished off during meal shift? What happens if you need to cook something to order? Or are we above that and are only assuming tasting menus? Wouldn't the dining experience suffer then because you were served some protein that was cooked a day before, and the conception of the dish was just "we think it's cooler to sous-vide so let us serve you this piece of steak but cooler"?

Sous-vide is only unique in that it can do some cool stuff with fruits and vegetables, and that doesn't even require the hot dildo. Chefsteps ultimately fails to market their machines in that regard because they haven't shown a single exciting, new thing that could justify paying 230 imminent-recession dollars for a machine. I'm talking something really revolutionary that would make it a staple appliance. Not a gimmick. (Okay the chicken noodle thing was okay imo)

It's a meme and it's marketed to home cooks with more money than sense to read a cookbook or take a hands-on approach to cooking, which totally defeats the point of cooking at home in the first place. The hard work makes the meal mean that much more. The skills and work habits you learn mean that much more. Going from a shitty cook to a confident amazing one means that much more, and cooking itself can be a very productive and relaxing experience, especially for the people close to you.

>>7868479

> recently qualified young chef

If your "young chef" is so terrible that he needs a sous vide setup to cook everything for him then hes a fucking idiot and shouldnt be in your restaurant to begin with.

>>7868469

well yes, but the factor there is the temperature, not the environment in which it's cooked.

>>7868470

55C is cooking, it's on the upper end of rare. and it's a safe pasteurisation temperature, holding at a couple of hours should be more than enough to make it completely safe.

>>7868473

this is why i said 'all things being equal'. sous vide products still lose juices. juice loss is directly proportional to temperature. you see this every time you cook something sous vide, there are always a striking quantity of leached juices in the bag. you either ramp the temperature down slowly for reabsorption or turn that shit into a jus son

>>7868485
he's not terrible - not all young and recently qualified chefs are completely incompetent. how do you get skilled at anything? you practise over time

would you prefer to waste some expensive steaks, or not waste steaks at all whilst saving on wage cost?

>sous vide

>yfw the chefsteps crew are in this thread right now

Ben probably shitposts on /b/

>>7868491
>>7868485
>>7868479

i can only imagine this practice ever being a thing at shitty franchises. proper restaurants expect their employees to have basic skills.

>>7868496
>imagine

okay buddy

>>7868500

i'm saying this having worked in professional kitchens which use sous vide. the method is not selectively applied to untrained staff, it is used for specific components or retherming.

>>7868471
You still don't fully understand what sous vide cooking does. Novices tend to think of cooking only in terms of temperature, but in reality time factors in just as much. A piece of meat kept at a constant temperature for 30 minutes, an hour, 4 hours, and 12 hours will have vastly different properties. This method allows you achieve things you will never be able to achieve using a grill or a pan. You will never get a tough cut like chuck to be as tender as a filet on the grill or in a pan.

>>7868483
You're talking out of your ass. Sous vide cooking was used in professional kitchens for decades before it came to the home in the last couple of years. That last paragraph is a joke as well. Cooking a steak in a pan or on a grill is hardly more involved and hands on than sous vide cooking then searing.

>>7868496
idk about the US (I assume you're American) but it's commonplace in Australia in mid-high tier establishments. I worked at a Hyatt hotel for 3 years and they used sous vide widely due to the consistency factor and ease of use. Junior commis would do grill sections no probs. Similar scenario in restaurants in Melbourne. One of Melbournes hottest restaurants (chin chin) cooks the majority of their menu sous vide, off site due to their huge volume of sales. From a business perspective sous vide makes heaps of sense.

>sous vide defence force in action

>i-i-its a legitmate cooking technique! honest guys!
>w-why not buy one?

>t-they arent accepting it! They know!
>SHUT IT DOWN!

>>7868513

>>7868447
>sous vide ensures meats are cooked perfectly every single fucking time with way less margin for error

I think this is the most compelling argument for sous vide outside of high end cuisine. Applies to most kitchens, including home.

inb4 i can cook steak perfect without it, that's not the argument

>>7868513
>he hasn't tried Joule(TM)

>>7868512

> One of Melbournes hottest restaurants (chin chin) cooks the majority of their menu sous vide, off site due to their huge volume of sales.

Sounds exactly like a fast food chain.

>>7868483

>Sous-vide is only unique in that it can do some cool stuff with fruits and vegetables

if it can do 'cool stuff with fruits and vegetables' it can do 'cool stuff' with anything. the principle is the same. don't be a dingus. yes sous vide can be used as a crutch. but it also allows to break traditional boundaries - from matters of precision, to scalability, and even to entirely novel textures and levels of flavour development.

> The hard work makes the meal mean that much more.

oh fuck off. i don't disagree that an elaborate process can be therapeutic/satisfying but this is not an argument against sous vide you fucking luddite.

>>7868519
On a purely superficial level, yes.

>>7868412
>its being cooked for 72 hours therefore it is more than just food in bag in water

>>7868519
have a quick search for chin chin, definitely not a chain. they have their own cook book like lots of other highly successful restaurants.

https://www.broadsheet.com.au/melbourne/food-and-drink/directory/restaurant/chin-chin

>ignore all facts, reasoning, and explanations presented
>repeat that the process either includes bags, water, or both
>somehow that's deemed a cogent argument against sous vide

>>7868471
>Ah, so its a thing for retards who cant cook properly and produce a consistent product without a machine controlling the temp and cooking the food for them.
Look who we have go there, a fucking caveman!

>>7868471
>a machine controlling the temp and cooking the food for them
Wait are you talking about the stove? Or the oven?

>>7868383
I prefer putting stuff in a laminated envelope and ironing it

>>7868539

>Look who we have go there

I think you might actually be the caveman m8.

>>7868510
Actually, sous vide (it wasn't called that long ago) was conceived as a way to industrialize cooking; particularly in factories, prisons, and hospitals. Also, nice job at reading comprehension. I was talking about the marketing for sous vide, particularly for Joule. I'm sure whatever Anova or SousVide® some posters have in this thread have had the same type of marketing.

>Cooking a steak in a pan or on a grill is hardly more involved and hands on than sous vide cooking then searing.

So you admit that the extent that sous vide can achieve is just steaks at a consistent doneness? Wow, what an amazing machine.

>>7868525
The cool stuff is from vacuum sealing plants so that the texture changes. Actually vacuum sealing itself is more revolutionary than sous vide. From boiling liquids to preserving general produce.

>but it also allows to break traditional boundaries - from matters of precision, to scalability, and even to entirely novel textures and levels of flavour development.

How about you fuck off instead, Modernist Cuisinist. Show something exceptional that can be done with sous vide and maybe I'll believe whatever you just said.

>>7868240
>>7868456
I'm pretty sure if ovens did exactly what sous vide could do they would already have been popularized

Fact of the matter is, cooking in liquid benefits most ingredients just off of specific heat capacity. 1L of water at 55C has a lot more energy in it than your oven at 55C, which means it cooks quicker, but still achieves an unparalleled texture

>>7868578

>but still achieves an unparalleled texture

$0.40 has been deposited into your account. We thank you for your service.

>>7868531
>muh highly successful, top restaurants with visionary chefs in the likes of Heston "I fucked up pizza" Blumenthal and Ferran "literally poison" Adria

Do you actually have a valid opinion on sous vide or are you doing it because it makes you look cool to serve meats that all look, taste, and feel the same?

>>7868565
>Actually, sous vide (it wasn't called that long ago) was conceived as a way to industrialize cooking; particularly in factories, prisons, and hospitals
Completely irrelevant. Its origins don't change the fact that it's been used in professional restaurant kitchens for far longer than you've been aware of the concept.

>So you admit that the extent that sous vide can achieve is just steaks at a consistent doneness? Wow, what an amazing machine.
No. Not sure how that's the one thing you took away from the post.

>>7868590
>>7868598
Not an argument

>>7868601
Not a strong point.

reminder that "cooking" food under 100C doesn't kill any germs efficiently. So those thermometer things are just good way to get salmonella.

>>7868590
my pleasure seniore, now, if I may ask, is it true that Grant is just a weimeraner with a moustache?

Thread scorecard

Pro sous vide arguments:
>Great precision and control
>Provides consistency
>Facilitates cooking process for finicky items
>Allows for long cooking times without overcooking
>Good for tenderizing tough meats as well as softening vegetables without overcooking
>Hailed as a great innovation in the culinary arts by industry leaders

Anti sous vide arguments:
>There are bags involved
>There is water involved
>It requires equipment

>>7868601
>Completely irrelevant. Its origins don't change the fact that it's been used in professional restaurant kitchens for far longer than you've been aware of the concept.

What does this have anything to do with sous vide in the current year? Why are you assuming that I haven't known about sous vide before some arbitrary point of time you've pulled out of your ass? Are you talking about Keller? That was long time ago senpai. Times have changed and the 90s had shitty food anyway. Peanut butter soup with smoked duck and smashed squash; New York Matinee called it a playful but mysterious little dish.

Soos Veed shills are out in full force today huh?

>>7868627
honestly they're just shitposting now with posts like this >>7868620

I cook sous vide with an igloo cooler and a probe therm. come at me.

>>7868622
Ok

>>7868627
>Shilling a method of cooking
Yeah man, they're almost as bad as those fucking braising shills.

>>7868633
Better be careful, you could get called an Igloo shill for that post.

>>7868633
the only proper way to sous vide

just kidding please buy Joule at www.chefsteps.com i swear they don't pay me i just love sous vide so much because the possibilities are literally limitless this is the next superappliance of modern cuisine

>>7868638
If you weren't shilling I'd feel even more sorry for you.

If Hitler was alive in 2016 would he be sous vide'ing jews in giant plastic bags?

>>7868648
Still haven't seen a single legitimate argument against it. Call me shill all you want, it won't cover up your lack of arguments.

>>7868650
Of course. It would give a much more consistent result with greater precision and control.

Godwin's Law though

>>7868653
Ok shill.

>>7868653
No, you need to reread the thread and reflect on your thought process. You're not convincing anybody.

>>7868653
Not a shill.

t. CHR1S_Y0UNG

>>7868660
There is not one single legitimate argument against in this thread. My aim isn't to convince you or any of the people spouting >bags and >shill. It's whoever is reading and curious about sous vide.

>>7868664
Haha, you've failed to do that too.

>>7868669
Oh well. I literally don't lose anything from that.

>>7868675
Exactly. Now you realize. Try your hand at reddit. I mean it in the most un-ironic way possible.

>>7868598
>meats that all look taste and feel the same
have you even tried sous vide meats? go try a 72 hr 55C shortrib and tell me you've had anything remotely
like it cooked conventionally.

>>7868678
No thanks, I like it here.

>>7868682
it's called barbecue

and sous vide does the same thing as barbecue just without the edge or taste. it makes everything soft and gelatinous

we're done here senpai anime has been posted

>>7868689
stating sous vide does the same as barbecue is objectively incorrect. invalid statement

>>7868690
>Complaining about anime on an anime image board

>>7868697
enjoy your virgin death

>>7868694
make up for the rest of the invalid arguments you previously posted fag

>penis pump repurposed as a coffee press

please don't tell me there are idiots that fall for this shit.

Yo, hol up, how can i go about souse vid'ing my epic go'za?

it should end up far superior to cokkin that shit in an oven right? cause souse vide is just straight up fuckin better?

>>7868697
>/ck/ - Food & Cooking
Huh?

>>7868702
Have you activated your almonds yet?

>>7868700
such as?

>>7868706
you can start with your first post

>>7868701
>he hasn't had a glorious phallus tinged aeropress first thing in the morning

>>7868699
But I have a girlfriend that loves me, anon. Can you say the same?

>>7868710


>>7868447
this was my first post

its all valid m8

>>7868720

sous meme does not speed up service. explain how it deals with short orders. explain why identical and consistent results are arguably more desirable when the proteins lose their integrity and texture in the process

valid maybe, but it sure as hell isn't definitive. would the end product be ultimately better than conventionally cooked meats? absolutely not because it's all a matter of taste. and many people see more to cooking than just a matter of efficiency and consistency during service

>>7868740
the examples I gave were for a 600g rib and a duck breast. sous vide would indeed speed these up for service. I'm not talking about short order at all. short order like what?

How do proteins lose integrity and texture due to sous vide?. you pre-cook your steak/cut/whatever, cool it and reheat for service, finishing with a torch, quick grill or sear. there is no compromise of texture, you get a perfectly cooked piece of meat from edge to edge, literally every time. how is this not desirable? this is why the technique is used commonly - consistently perfectly done succulent meat!

>>7868740
additionally on the SV vs conventional side of things is fluid loss. Conventional methods loses juice a lot more that SV. try it if you have access to sous vide cookery. Cook a given piece of meat on a grill and weigh it before and after, then do the same with SV with an equally heavy piece of meat. SV will be heavier after cookery due to better fluid retention - juicier meat

>>7868762
cooking meat at low temperatures over a long period of time would denature the proteins and dissolve collagen much more than conventional means, making the meat have a much softer, almost mushy and stretchy texture that is entirely up to a person's tastes. the texture is definitely compromised

short orders as in actually cooking something that wasn't prepped the day before. not pussying out and denying a diner a steak because there weren't enough in the bucket by service time

>>7868767
fluid loss is a function of temperature and time, not exclusively to sous vide itself. your example is fallacious because you're proposing to cook meat at different temps over different periods of time. a commercial oven set to 55C will have the same fluid retention as sous vide machine set to 55C. so that point is moot

also explain the waste. is the saved meat really more desirable than the plastic and energy required

>>7868787
>cooking meat at low temperatures over a long period of time would denature the proteins and dissolve collagen much more than conventional means
got a source on that?

>>7868787
>would denature the proteins and dissolve collagen much more than conventional means

That depends entirely on what time and temperature is chosen. It's not automatically a problem. It's only a problem if the chef chooses the wrong time/temperature for the cooking, which is equally problematic for traditional cooking methods.

>>a commercial oven set to 55C will have the same fluid retention as sous vide machine set to 55C

Incorrect. There will be fluid loss via evaporation from the surface of the food in an oven, whereas in SV there is zero evaporation because the food is packed in plastic.

>>7868820
>got a source on that?

That's what happens in a plain ordinary stew. Stew meat is tough. Cook it low and slow and the collagen breaks down, making it tender.

Same concept applies to other cooking methods. Though, sous vide can be done at any number of different times and temperatures. It's silly to assert that it always results in proteins breaking down--that's entirely up to the particular time and temp specified by the chef.

>>7868578

>I'm pretty sure if ovens did exactly what sous vide could do they would already have been popularized

...ovens have already been popularised. what?

>Fact of the matter is, cooking in liquid benefits most ingredients just off of specific heat capacity. 1L of water at 55C has a lot more energy in it than your oven at 55C, which means it cooks quicker, but still achieves an unparalleled texture

the point is just that saying 'sous vide preserves moisture' is not quite correct. cooking meat will cause it to lose moisture. the level of contraction of muscle proteins is directly proportional to its temperature. the good thing, of course, is that the juices remain in the bag for you to use as you wish. and with measurement you know *exactly* how much you've lost and can factor that in the next time.

>>7868598

>because it makes you look cool to serve meats that all look, taste, and feel the same?

that is the exact fucking opposite of what sous vide can you dumb nigger

>>7868767

NO. this is not true. all things being equal, sous vide offers no advantage in moisture retention to cooking via a traditional method.

>>7868823

>Incorrect. There will be fluid loss via evaporation from the surface of the food in an oven

the reason it is at the surface is that it is being contracted out of the meat - a process which is directly caused by its temperature increasing. yes, it will not evaporate out of the bag in SV, but it still will leave the meat.

>>7868837

There are multiple separate processes by which moisture leaves meat. Contraction of the fibers is certainly one of them, and that's the same for an oven or for sous vide (assuming the same temperature, of course).

Evaporation is independent from the above. You can have evaporation loss even with no heat at all. For example, dry-aging meat, or making jerky. Even though there is no heat at all involved in those processes the moisture is still lost via evaporation rather than fiber contraction.

>>7868843

that's fine, but none of that verifies your assertion that evaporation will cause any significant additional moisture loss to that from simply heating it.

>>7868610

Not every bacteria is an extremophile or spore forming, their life cycle doesn't depend on us getting sick so they don't evolve that way either.

>>7868849

I never claimed it was "significant", anon. Only that it happened.

>>7868650

Of course, they're super fragile ... you try to cook them and they just turn to ash in seconds.

>>7868037

you are the dumbest nigger imagineable-

the whole fucking point of sous vide is to keep the temperature STABLE dude. for EVEN cooking. are you going to stand there with a thermometer in your hand for two hours constantly refreshing to water that gets slightly colder ever second? pfft

and I'm not even a fan of sous vide. you're just beyond stupid.

>>7868610

That's kind of a retarded point to make. It's a dangerous oversimplification. Killing bacteria is a function of both time AND temperature. 100C is not some magic number that kills bacteria, it's just popularized because it happens to be the boiling point of water. Temperatures that are slightly lower are nearly as effective. And even temperatures which are a lot lower are equally effective given a longer cooking time. Looking at the temperature alone is silly. You need to consider both time and temperature.

>>7868872

but it's incredibly minimal. wonder why heston blumenthal's 'in search of perfection' recipe involves slow cooking a steak for 24 hours in the oven? because the moisture loss from evaporation is negligible. in fact i actually prefer to slow cook roasts and steaks in the oven to SV, although i might do it for insurance in advance of a big event or whatever. the fact that the moisture on the surface evaporates is actually often a good thing, you want dat pellicle for the post-sear.

>>7868376

though to be fair I use my knife like at least four to five times a day while most people probably won't Sous Vide daily.

>>7868874

>are you going to stand there with a thermometer in your hand for two hours constantly refreshing to water that gets slightly colder ever second?

speaking as a former poor student who actually did that for about 5 years, i can tell you it is not fucking fun and it usually doesn't work.

>>7868872
>>7868843

for the heat of the oven to do that it would have to first evaporate the layer being leached by the contracting proteins. it would have to effectively outpace the moisture loss via contraction. off the top of my head i can't really tell you what temperatures would be required for this to happen, but i doubt it is ever particularly significant until you start taking the meat close to boiling temperatures.

this is the worst thread I've ever read

>MUH PLASTIC BAGS

off yourselves

>MUH SHILLS

it's my first post ITT

>>7867945
From just the thumbnail this looks like little sheep being cooked in a giant sous vide thing

>>7868889

Dry curing meat works even without salting and is historically common. Drying out the meat before it becomes poisonous is a race not very consistently won though.

>>7868896

dry curing takes 4 fucking weeks, and the meat beneath the surface is still very juicy.

>>7868900

I'm not sure I've ever seen beef jerky that I'd call "very juicy"......

But yeah, curing meat by drying it takes a long time. The amount of time a piece of meat would spend in an oven would result in relatively little moisture loss via evaporation.

>>7868884

why tho? were you trying to replicate sous vide? what were you cooking?

>>7868892
>it's my first post ITT
No, it's not.

>>7868906

I'm not the guy you're replying to, but I've done a pretty ghetto sous-vide setup in my kitchen.
I put a big stockpot filled with water on the hob, stuck a wooden spoon across the top of the pot & used that to hang the food (sealed in a ziplog bag) in the center of the pot. I used a thermometer to check the temperature.

It works great for short-term use (I used it for chicken legs). But I wouldn't want to bother with it for several hours at at time.

>>7868921

pretty cool

>>7868820
can cook a pork shoulder at 135F for 24 hours and then slice and sear and eat like a tender steak, increase the temp by 10 degrees and you get pulled pork

>>7867945
Why are these things expensive? Isn't it just a water kettle without the kettle stuck in a box?

>>7869015

Because it's a niche product marketed to people with disposable income.

You're exactly right that it's a very simple device. You can build one yourself for well under $50.

>>just a kettle
It is a bit more complex than that. It contains a pump to circulate the water so that the heating is even, and they generally have a PID type controller instead of a simple on-off thermostat so the temperature control is more precise.

But again, those things aren't expensive. You can easily DIY it for much less than the cost of buying one.

>>7867886

>>7869015
Because it accurately and consistently regulates the temperature.

>>7869061
Yooo why jack crying there give link

>>7869436

That makes no sense. Like >>7869020 mentioned, a PID controller is all that is needed to maintain an accurate temperature. Those can be found for $30 or less. There is no reason other than marketing why those things cost what they do; the underlying technology is not new or expensive.

>>7868492
oh, you really think so? hi chefsteps management, please tell your """hosts""" to stop being such smug douchebags with cutesy mannerisms and jokes, thanks.

>>7869447
I don't see how what you're saying is exclusive to circulators. Anything you build yourself will be loads cheaper than a product on the market. They aren't even that expensive as far as kitchen tech goes.

>>7869616
>I don't see how what you're saying is exclusive to circulators

It's not exclusive to circulators.

My point was that the technology in one is not costly. In other words, the precision is not driving the cost up. Precision in this case is cheap.

The reason why they are expensive is not because of the precision, but because they're a niche product. You see this all the time with kitchen appliances. Consider the "wall oven"--it's basically a stripped down version of a normal oven/range combo unit that fits inside a wall instead of sitting on the floor. It's actually cheaper to build than a normal range/oven because it lacks the range entirely, and because there is less sheet metal on it. Yet despite being simpler and cheaper to build than a normal range/oven, they cost several times more. Why? Because it's a luxury item bought by few people, whereas a typical range/oven combo is something that everyone buys.

>>7869440
he realized he was gonna have to choke out jack jr

>>7868392
>Heston Blumenthal
>the one who hasn't received more than ten minutes of formal training
>commenting on great advancements in the culinary arts
>british "chefs"

>people will literally defend a kike who can't pronounce "centrifuge"
https://youtu.be/hc_SFK1eZh0?t=1m47s

>>7869630

American?

Pretty much all kitchens here (Netherlands) are system kitchens with fully integrated appliances nowadays. A range is 1000+ Euros, a solo cabinet oven 300+. Guess it because we have to make do with less space.

>>7869630
Fuck off Chris your company is shit

>>7869799
>owns the restaurant that has consistently been called one of if not the best in the world by many different sources
Yeah man, he's an idiot. You probably know a whole lot more than him

>>7869925
Never said he was an idiot, I never said he wasn't talented. He hasn't had any formal training and is entirely self-taught, which is a claim he makes. Considering that fact, I really don't give a shit what he has to say about advancements in the culinary field or technique, since he hasn't even trained in it. Fuck off shill

>>7869947

if he's extremely influential i think you should prolly pay some attention anon.

>>7869947
>man is able to break into the top of the industry and be seen as an influential figure despite not having any formal training and going to culinary school
>his opinion doesn't matter because he didn't pay a ludicrous amount of money to learn how to chiffonade some herbs

Oh I see, merely being at the vanguard of the restaurant and food industry isn't enough, you have to go to a school before you can comment on anything. I guess I'll go ask some twenty-something at the local Olive Garden what his opinions on the future of cooking are since his parents paid a few hundred grand for him to go to culinary school.

>le shill xD

Here's a good example of why sous vide cooking can be better than other methods

>cook chicken breast to 40C sous vide. >Remove from bag and sear in a very hot pan
>PERFECT on the inside and a nice crust on the outside

vs

>put your raw chicken breast in a very hot pan
>okay, flip it when it gets a nice color
>okay, now both sides have color. still not cooked though
>put it in the oven to finish
>dry outside now
>well done chicken on the tapered end
>hopefully the bigger end cooked through

>>7868471

food is about if it tastes good, not the level of skill it takes to prepare it. you sound like you eat with your asshole.

>>7869963
>he's extremely influential
He isn't. Unless you think bacon and egg ice cream is something to be marveled at.

>>7869972
Nice strawman, but yes, I think someone should be educated in a field in order to comment on changes and advancements in said field. Unless you think someone who has never studied literature can comment that some new YA novel is the next great american novel. Do you trust just some random blogger to comment on when the next advancement of science has been reached?

>>7869983
Learn to cook and stop repeating what those faggots at Chefsteps told you. Sous vide is a useful tool, but if you can't cook a simple chicken breast properly, you need to either spend more time in the kitchen or stop cooking altogether.

>>7869990
>Nice strawman
You really don't know what that word means.

>Unless you think someone who has never studied literature can comment that some new YA novel is the next great american novel. Do you trust just some random blogger to comment on when the next advancement of science has been reached?
False analogy. If that blogger somehow happened to be at the forefront of scientific progress and was a Nobel prize laureate despite not holding a degree, I would definitely trust what he had to say.

>>7869972
Do people seriously think Heston is at the forefront of changes in the culinary world? Have they actually seen other chefs outside of television programs like Kinch or Bras?

>>7868632
>completely valid and well argued points vs 'muh traditional cooking!'
>shitposting
How far can this board shove its collective head up its ass?

>>7870022
There can be multiple people at the forefront of something. I'm not sure how namedropping Manresa man or the dwarf from Twin Peaks changes that.

>>7869990

>Unless you think bacon and egg ice cream is something to be marveled at.

i don't have to think that at all. liquid nitrogen ice creams, dry ice aromatic mists, numerous gellan applications, powdered oils, shared volatile flavour pairings, triple cooked chips and so on are more than enough.

>>7870043
heston's at the forefront of mediocre cooking then. both of those chefs have been largely more influential than food wizard man and they make it a point not to sous vide

"modernist cooking" as a whole has already failed to take hold in commercial restaurants, that's why you get dumb shit like chefsteps being desperate to sell their circulators or the occasional hipster place that sous vides and gelatinizes everything and still manages to have simple steaks taste like shit

face it senpai sous vide is nothing but a meme. nothing more than quinoa or yoga. it'll have its niche and it'll be lapped up by dumbfucks with more money than sense, so be happy that you'll always have a friend to anally pleasure with a hot water dildo

>>7868401
not a response

>>7870080

according to /ck/:

heston blumenthal is 'at the forefront of mediocre cooking'.

lol

>>7870080
Those are some nice assertions, but they're all (literally every single one) wrong. I'm not really sure what it was in this thread that has made you so angry.

>>7870083
Actually, by definition, that is objectively a response.

>>7870095
and by definition that is objectively an argument. if it's not to your liking, then i can only apologize and hope you find peace in other areas of life.

>>7870051
>triple cooked chips
>liquid nitrogen ice cream
Came out way before Heston branded it in his name. Is not necessarily better than traditionally cooking fries, you bong.

>dry aromatic mists
Tell me another restaurant that does this.

>numerous gellan applications
Adria did it before Heston. He was also largely influenced by Bras.

>powdered oils
Tell me another restaurant that does this.

>shared volatile flavour pairings
So what chefs have been doing since fine dining was a thing?

Get out of the fucking house and try to consume more media that isn't Heston's youtube videos.

>>7870109
>and by definition that is objectively an argument
No, that's factually incorrect. This book might help you with your deficiencies.

https://www.amazon.com/Advocacy-Opposition-Introduction-Argumentation-7th/dp/0205781187

>>7870090
Haha, you're still awake? Can you actually argue and present a point that isn't just proclaiming everything as a non-argument because it isn't backed up by solid irrefutable proof? That would have to swing both ways.

>>7870110

that you are asking for examples of dry ice mists and powdered oils shows you have no fucking idea what you are talking about, they are two of the most ridiculously popular 'i am doing molecular gastronomy' identifiers i can think of

>So what chefs have been doing since fine dining was a thing?

haha. no. what is firmenich

>>7870120
>Haha, you're still awake?
Not sure who you think I am. There are multiple people on this board.

>Can you actually argue and present a point that isn't just proclaiming everything as a non-argument because it isn't backed up by solid irrefutable proof?
I don't have to until there's an argument. The burden of proof is on the one making claim. Once an argument is presented and I make a claim I won't have to.

>>7870038
they missed a lot of the arguments against sous vide, also the claims that pro sous vide fags have made are duboius at best

but keep on appealing to ridicule

>>7870131

which arguments

>>7870128
So, are we just going to argue about whose burden of proof is it now or are you actually going to provide something productive to the discussion?

>>7870131
Please tell me what those arguments are and where exactly I can find them. I've seen people saying that these arguments exist several times yet no one's presented them or at the least linked them.

>the claims that pro sous vide fags have made are duboius at best

>You have more precise control with this method than traditional methods
This is a factual statement. If you want something to cook at precisely 131.5 degrees F for 2 hours there really isn't another way to do it.
>It allows for tenderizing tough meats and softening vegetables over a long period without over cooking them
Also a fact
>Facilitates cooking
This is, of course, subjective, but setting a temperature and leaving it for a while is pretty simple and leaves no room for error barring equipment failure or a power outage.

>>7870122
Then tell me another restaurant that does those.

>firmenich
What?

>>7868383

There was a guy on Worst Cooks in America that tried to cook chicken in a dishwasher in the first around and panicked because there wasn't one in the contest kitchen.

Good times.

>>7870110
Hating on Heston is like hating on Aphex Twin. There are definitely a lot of pioneer figures in their field who got less recognition, but that doesn't really change much about the work itself.

It is a stupid game to compare chefs, art, etc. in a reductive, relativistic fashion. You are saying things like "so and so did it first" or "he's too mainstream" and things like that, which sound like political arguments having nothing to do with food itself. Other people itt have played your game by making appeals to the Michelin guide and best restaurant awards, which are basically appeals to authority.

The truth is that you need to read Heston's books and essays. You will see the abstracter form of his work-- collaboration with scientists and historians, procuring rare ingredients, attempts to answer seemingly subjective questions with facts of perception and chemistry. Of course he has famous dishes, of course at this point he is not the one cooking them in his restaurants, but that doesn't change the fact that he codified a lot of this research and presented it to the public.

Kinch Bras Adria Redzepi Achatz etc. all excellent chefs of course. Are you going to shoot down Adria for selling a $500 set of books? Redzepi for starring in a documentary? Achatz for writing about his battle with cancer? Are you always going to shoot down the chefs who receive publicity and lavish praises on the chefs who maybe publish a book or two? You would be playing the contrarian.

I haven't even posted in this thread before but it is pretty annoying to see you post le smug anime faces and be a total contrarian about serious work. You are talking so much unnecessary shit on Heston and deploying sophist tactics in argument.

>>7870144
>whose burden of proof is it now
It's always on the side making the claim (OP's post) unless it's consistent with general presumption. You are asking me to make arguments out of thin air against something that isn't there.

>>7870002
>don't know what that word means.
> guess I'll go ask some twenty-something at the local Olive Garden what his opinions on the future of cooking are since his parents paid a few hundred grand for him to go to culinary school.
>that isn't a strawman
lmao
>False analogy
Yours is even worse. Heston is far from at the "forefront" of anything.

>>7870156
By the way, these chefs at the so-called forefront are not enemies. They meet at conferences, collaborate, and write essays for each others' books all the fucking time.

>>7870156
Grant Achatz should be shot in the face for the food he is producing and his smug approach to life. Fucker was handed everything in life and then used cancer as a publicity vehicle. Fuck him.

The use of sous vide I nothing new, commercial factory food operations have been using this method of temp control and cooking for over 50 years. Its hilarious that you hipster faggot eschew commercially produced food, calling it "overly processed". But the very next minute you brainless fucktards are handed a steak and you decide to wrap it in cancer causing plastic bags (how do you think grants tongue fell off) and you boil it till its "perfectly cooked".

News flash, people have been perfectly cooking steaks in 8 minutes flat for centuries. Your memetastic bag boiling technique has everyone laughing at you.

Have fun with your expensive iPad dildos.

>>7870160
Your post implies that a culinary education automatically puts you ahead of those without it. Whether that was your intended message or not is irrelevant and really not my problem. It's not a strawman as nothing you said was misrepresented.

>Yours is even worse. Heston is far from at the "forefront" of anything.
This is whole argument is incredibly dishonest, and I have a hard time you actually believe this. More likely you're just saying this because you really have no other avenues in the argument so you have to buckle down and just keep going. Comparing Heston to a "blogger" talking about science is laughable while my analogy was a perfect parallel.

I'm done with this argument since it's not going anywhere and I'd rather do some yard work. I won't respond so you can claim victory if you want.

>>7870177
Mate, I was not even talking about sous vide. I don't even own a sous vide machine nor do I exactly justify purchasing one in a home setting.

I was talking about the Heston debate that popped up itt, that's all.

If it's that sous vide thing from kickstarter or whatever, I know one person that will get one

He is upper-middle class normie level aging guy trying to stay in touch with tech stuff

And an apple fanboy

So yea, that's their market and probably target as well.
Don't really give a shit, whatever gets people to cook more I guess

>>7870184
Ask, literally, anyone if they give a shit about what you were posting. You brought up grant and that is one of my tumbler based sjw niggers.

>>7870179
You must be fucking retarded. Yes, someone who was professionally trained in culinary arts is much more apt to comment on advancements in the field than someone who wasn't. That was the whole fucking point you mongrel retard. Heston is a talented chef, but he sure as fuck isn't pioneering anything, especially if he's claiming sous vide as anything but a different method to the same result that's been done for literally centuries.
>my analogy was a perfect parallel
No, it isn't. Michelin stars are far from the fucking Nobel prize and don't even remotely stand on the same level nor are they awarded for the same accomplishments. Heston's accomplishments are in molecular gastronomy, a niche field and even at that he isn't the forefront.

Go do yard work, you obviously aren't good at arguing or following a simple argument.

>>7870148
http://www.molecularrecipes.com/hydrocolloid-guide/tapioca-maltodextrin-n-zorbit-m-2/

http://www.molecularrecipes.com/techniques/dispersing-aromas-dry-ice-vapor/

>>7870177
>The use of sous vide I nothing new
no one said it was
>Its hilarious that you hipster faggot eschew commercially produced food, calling it "overly processed".
can you quote me on that? I don't remember ever saying that
>cancer
grilling causes cancer. smoking causes cancer. searing causes cancer. red meat consumption causes cancer. alcohol causes cancer.
>boil it
boiling happens at 100C/212F
>"perfectly cooked".
having the steak at the exact temp you want it is perfectly cooked. putting scare quotes around it doesn't change it
>News flash, people have been perfectly cooking steaks in 8 minutes flat for centuries
different methods give you different results. no one argues you can get a good steak from a grill or broiler. if you have a tough cut and want it as tender as a filet but still medium rare, sous vide is really the only method to do that. or if you want medium rare chicken sous vide is the only method to give you those results safely.
>Your memetastic bag boiling technique has everyone laughing at you.
>Have fun with your expensive iPad dildos.
try to mature a bit instead of hurling insults at people because you don't see eye to eye with them.

>>7870147
>This is a factual statement.
Factual statement with very subjective and vague perimeters. When, what, why and how would somebody want more control over a traditional method? Is it worth it to compromise a disproportionate amount of time, water and energy to have a more consistent and precise result? Does this account for foods that are better off not sous-vide? What if the traditional method yields a result that is more enjoyable than sous vide? If you're just going to say that sous vide is great in its own environment then sure. Sous vide is good at what it does and that is why sous vide is good. I'll take two.

>muh 55C for x amount of hours
>softening meats and veggies without over cooking them
There are other techniques that exist that can do the same thing. Sous vide is not unique just because of that. Fact? Sure. A useless one.

>This is, of course, subjective
Thank you for looking at this one objectively.

I'll list a few counterpoints against sous vide:

>waste (electricity, time, water, plastics)
>applicable only in niche settings (everything needs to be prepped long before service and what of shortages)
>circulators are expensive (if we're actually arguing about the equipment rather than the technique), joule is also terrible because of iphone
>traditional (evaporation based) cooking methods yields a DIFFERENT result that can be seen as more desirable, sous vide undermines some foods that way

and then there is the whole thing about the art and benefits of hands-on cooking but that would be opening a can of worms. Might as well argue about which bear is best.

>>7870206
> which bear is best
Brown, they're cutest

>>7870156
The first argument was that Heston was at the forefront of culinary change and was influential you mong

The first guy appealed to authority by name dropping Heston. I was contesting that claim. Also did I really talk shit on Heston? Read my posts again and try not to sperg out.

ene more hour before the Chefsteps marketing department get off work

oh wait lmao they probably don't even work real hours. 12-4 living the life off dumbasses who would spend 230 bucks on a mediocre circulator

>>7870206
>>waste (electricity, time, water, plastics)
>>applicable only in niche settings (everything needs to be prepped long before service and what of shortages)
>>circulators are expensive (if we're actually arguing about the equipment rather than the technique), joule is also terrible because of iphone

these problems are all exactly as significant/negligible as with traditional cooking methods


>traditional (evaporation based) cooking methods yields a DIFFERENT result that can be seen as more desirable, sous vide undermines some foods that way

what the fuck does this mean. yes sometimes it is good to use an oven. is this an argument against using sous vide at other times? no.

these are terrible arguments.

>>7870210
Wrong. Black bear

>>7870204
>boiling happens at 100C/212F

You need to check your privilege and altitude. Boiling can happen at several temperatures depending on pressure, including 130 degrees which is the temp a lot of cock fags boil steak at.

You wanna drop names?

Keep posting new friend, there isn't a single person besides heaven and samefag that think you have a single clue.

And no, I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to other cock fags, so if you reply you're just gonna get the same anon response of "I never said that, you do 't even know who you are talking to"

>having an argument on an anon image board
>2016

>>7870215
it's not a fallacy when his area of "authority" is relevant to the topic. just an fyi

>>7870227
>these problems are all exactly as significant/negligible as with traditional cooking methods
Are you really going to dimiss all of those? I hope you're ready to explain in depth why they're negligible.

>yes sometimes it is good to use an oven
then why even sous vide if i'm just going to stuff the machine in some cupboard outside of rare ocassions

>>7870233
BIG

>>7870236
which was also largely contested

>>7870243
>which was also largely contested
without any real success

>>7870234
Are you fresh out of /b/?

>>7870248
and we're back to ground zero. thanks for wasting our time

>>7870240

>Are you really going to dimiss all of those?

well, yeah. energy usage is comparable to that with traditional methods. time is meaningless unless it is costly given proper planning, which it isn't. the water is conserved, not wasted. plastics is one of the few points you might have a handle on. if you're aiming for low plastics usage, sous vide is not (currently) the option for you.

>then why even sous vide if i'm just going to stuff the machine in some cupboard outside of rare ocassions

don't, if you are going to stuff it in the cupboard outside of rare occasions (unless that works for you). but if you're interested in the results it gives, you won't be doing that.

what are you arguing against? using it for every given meal? i don't think anyone has been arguing for that. it applies best for those people who it is particularly cost effective/interesting for.