/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>6527953

>People shouldn't have a right to eat meat in our situations.

jesus fuck

>>6527953
I don't give a fuck about the ethics vegetarians or vegans spout, but I like their food. Whenever I take an international flight I put in for the Hindu meal. Because a vegetable curry over rice is always going to be better than the crappy beef or chicken (or worse, pasta) that will be the default choices. Also a fan of Sikh temple cooking. If I want a super cheap meal without any sketchy meat in it and the nearby Sikh temple has a restaurant associated with it that's where I'll go.

As much as I hate to admit it, from a moral perspective they have a point. With what we know about the degree of sentience which animals like cows/pigs are able to demonstrate our treatment of them is pretty disgusting considering the level of sophistication our species has reached. I'm sure some will call me a bleeding heart librul pussy (not the case), I don't like the idea of the conditions these animas are being raised for slaughter in. I have no issue with raising animals for slaughter, but the way we do it (ie as cheaply and efficiently as possible) is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


That said, what replaces that bad taste in my mouth wit a delicious one is the cheap beef/chicken I can purchase at any grocery store in america. Essentially I don't really like what we do but I understand it and have grown much too used to it to want to make a change. Meat is fucking great.

>>6527953
>Skinny weak fag whines like a the little bitch he is
>Come at me bro
People like that are the reason why gas chambers exist.

Would it be so hard for meat-eaters to admit that due to their capacity to suffer, harvesting animals for food is morally wrong when we have the resources to eat entirely meat free pretty easily?

Im not going to give up meat anytime soon either, but im humble enough to recognize that what im doing is in some way wrong

>1st world countries
>bitching about animal rights
Seems about right.
I don't really care about them, it's their life.
Maybe it's not moral but there are so many things in the world that aren't okay or even moral and ethical and yet they're done constantly. Hell, is protecting the animals more important than helping someone in a 4th world country survive ? There are "wars" that are far more important to fight than this.
My GF is vegetarian and she doesn't mind me eating meat.

>>6528027
>Would it be so hard for meat-eaters to admit that due to their capacity to suffer, harvesting animals for food is morally wrong when we have the resources to eat entirely meat free pretty easily?
Depends on whether you want to extend your system of ethics to animals. Some posters here don't even extend their ethical system to different races.

Giving a fuck about animal suffering is hardly an obvious choice in a world where bullfighting, cockfighting and even dog fights are still pretty common.

>>6527953
Most of /ck/ vocal minority are people that either can't or are unwilling to see from a vegetarian / vegan perspective, and are very irritated that they can't cleanly win an argument. The inability to internally reconcile this causes some degree of conflict whenever a vegetarian or vegan, or any dietary / ideological choice, comes up. It makes it difficult to discuss and while the arguments can be entertaining sometimes to take part in, ultimately nothing new seems to be learned and every go 'round resolves to the same core things.

I think most people don't care though. Viciously pro-human / carnivore types suck, and I'd think even most of the people I described above would agree if they were faced with these sorts. I'd like to believe it really is a small but vocal subset.

>>6527953
Just the worst sort of preachy faggot.

They are faggots

>>6528057
>can't or are unwilling to see from a vegetarian / vegan perspective
idk, man. I eat a plant based diet most of the time and I still can't stand the idea of seeing things from a "vegan perspective". The diet is great, but I can do without the dogma.

>>6528021
That's not even mentioning the impact factory animal farming has on the environment. The amount of waste those places put out is just fucking obscene.

But yeah, I'm not a vegetarian myself either, I just recognize that it's not really the most ethical choice. I think it's pretty much impossible to completely avoid hypocrisy in this society though

>>6528062
I think our immediate thought of vegan perspective is a bit different.

I'd agree though. But that's just part of being human unfortunately. Dogmatic is pretty infectious and it always tends to take root whenever anything becomes a thing. Personally, I can't even meaningfully define "life", much less delineate what is an "animal product".

I guess what I mean to say by "Vegan perspective" is just getting a mindset where things can viewed and weighed on a case by case basis until you've (hopefully bothered to) created a framework where it all fits coherently. That's where the real value lies in my mind. You can not partake in something if you don't agree with it, or you can partake better.

I have a few friends who are vegetarians and one vegan friend. They are not really preachy about it so it's fine.

One of the vegetarians does it for health reasons, he use to be ~300 lbs and lost almost 70 of it since changing diets, so he's sticking with it.

>>6528077
For me it's the whole "anything that causes suffering is wrong" mentality that rubs me the wrong way. I agree that factory farmed meat is disgusting, so I eat very little of the stuff. But I have no problem with hunting, fishing or traditionally farmed meat. And sometimes suffering is fun. I like bullfights. I think the joy and excitement people get from bullfights far outweighs the animal suffering they cause.

So even though I eat like a vegan most of the time I can't say I'm a fan of the "ethics" they talk about. Those aren't my ethics.

I've been vegan for 3 years, for my opinion would be biased.

I have no opinion on vegans or vegetarians unless they pester me about it.

i try to keep meat down to twice a week but i just fucking love cooking it more than anything. i have a lot of sympathy with vegetarians in general, vegans, ehhhh. i've had to slaughter animals a fair bit and it sucks.

I do wonder what vegan or vegetarian /ck/ posters think when they see meat based food on the captcha.

Don't care about them.

Cool story, though, I work in a liquor store and one time had this hipster girl ask about vegan wines. I didn't know what to tell her at the time but showed her our organic stuff.

Later on I looked this up and found out that all of yellowtail's reds are vegan approved. I still don't care much for veganism but I think it's cool they have a cheap option.

>>6528642
I could not help but notice your png was not optimized anon.
I have optimized your png.
Your png is now optimized.

>>6528737

based anon

More from OP

These people

>IF YOU EAT MEAT YOU ARE A PSYCHOPATH

>>6529445
God I hate those pieces of shit.

>>6529445
For the longest time, it didn't really connect for me that animal meat is animal muscle mass (and other bits).

>>6529445

BACON IS FUCKING AMAZING FUCK

>>6529445
But they're correct. Meat eaters are typically dishonest and their belief systems are disjointedly cobbled together at best.

This is where your agitation stems from. The sensation of dissonance.

>>6527953
They may be right about the mistreatment of livestock, but they come off as wish-washy at times. Many want to eat "ethically", but they are not willing to apply such a philosophy to other aspects of their life or simply don't care about other issues that are blatantly unethical in the same sector.
I mostly don't care though. I find that vegan options taste pretty good every once in a while.

>>6529473

most people are typically dishonest and their belief systems are disjointedly cobbled together at best, period.

to use one extremely common example, all the extremest religious people who are actively against same-sex marriage and/or abortion, but who have had (or regularly have) pre-marital sex.

We do what we want and justify it afterwards. We ALL do, albeit some more often than others.

>>6529490
And the extent of clinging when confronted is worse in some than others. We are a very broken species. Maybe those pro-human types are right, we are a thing of wonder to have actually made it this far.

We all know either way. I'd just ask for a bit of honesty. All the justifications and double speak is disgusting and shameful, the lengths people will go to make it all okay.

Fundamentally flawed.

Logically speaking, a global vegan diet is simply not sustainable. We need meat production in order to maximize the number of people we can feed, and we'll continue needing it until technology progresses to the hypothetical point in which other forms of food production make it unnecessary.

If it's not possible for the entire world to adhere to it then it can't be seen as a moral position to take. On top of that, while it's healthy to show empathy for animals, it has to be rationally understood that animals don't necessarily suffer in the same way humans do because of their significantly lower brain capacity. Some animals, however, shouldn't be harvested or hunted at all because of their intelligence (dolphins and great apes, for example), and we should still be as humane as possible when slaughtering animals to be used for meat.

That being said, we probably eat too much meat. Western society has gotten to the point where many people can't imagine having a meal without meat.

Optimally, you should only eat meat maybe two or three times a week.

I'm a fan of the 'Eat what you kill movement'.

>>6530268
What if we just made less people.

>>6530283

It's not necessarily about the number of people, but about usage of waste.

So we already have tons and tons of animals in the world used purely for food. That's all they do. They exist to be used as cattle and simply aren't fit to survive as wild animals anymore.

We harvest grain. Then we take the stalks from the grain and dry it out into hay. Then the hay is used to feed these livestock. That's the system. Without the livestock the hay would have no real purpose. The stalks from every bit of grain we harvest would be completely wasted. So without meat production we end up with a system in which we're producing grain and throwing stalks away to be used for nothing else. By using the stalks we take the waste from the grain to 'grow' even more food.

This optimizes our food output. So, if suddenly all meat production disappeared, here are some of the side effects.

1.) Millions upon millions of animals used for livestock would be either kept alive by us at a detriment to ourselves or be released into the wild where they'd fuck up the ecosystem catastrophically
2.) Our grain production would continue and we'd have fucking nothing to do with stalk byproducts, increasing our waste and resulting in the system becoming inefficient

>>6530268
I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat twice a week. But there are a few flaws in your argument.
>Logically speaking, a global vegan diet is simply not sustainable. We need meat production in order to maximize the number of people we can feed
Meat production is still is very inefficient way to get the energy of plants to humans. And the more efficient we make it the worse the conditions become for the animals. There would be no problem for everyone to be fed on a vegetarian diet at least. The by-product of dairy and eggs can still be sold as meat but rearing animals to be slaughtered and feeding them to that age is less efficient that just growing more food for our consumption.

Also while your kill what you need to eat stance is admirable as a moral experiment it would be way more unsustainable than vegetarianism if adopted on a global basis. Even if every one ate meat 2-3 times a week but they killed a wild animal to do it we'd finish our wildlife in months.

>>6530315

The Eat What You Kill movement simply means people adapting the practice of only eating meat if they personally (and no one else) kills it. This doesn't mean going out and hunting multiple times a week, it just means that you follow a vegetarian diet unless you go out hunting. The hunting, of course, would still have to follow legal guidelines with proper licenses and management and whatnot.

I just said I liked it. I think it's a good personal philosophy. Realistically speaking, we still require industrial meat production.

As for slaughtering animals, what else do we do once an animal has lived past its usefulness? Hens don't give eggs forever, for example. Once they stop producing eggs then they should be harvested for their meat.

>>6527953
They often have the most vocal people that think far to highly of their self imposed restrictive diet. The also have a lot of normal people that just don't like eating animal products, but aren't making it their life's mission to be a huge preachy asshole.

>>6530337
>it just means that you follow a vegetarian diet unless you go out hunting.
Which is fair enough I guess.

>As for slaughtering animals, what else do we do once an animal has lived past its usefulness? Hens don't give eggs forever, for example. Once they stop producing eggs then they should be harvested for their meat.
That's what I meant when I mentioned the by-products of the dairy and egg industry.

And your scenario of the grain stalks going to waste if we don't feed it to industrial farm animals is also flawed. It would only be an efficient strategy if the meat we're producing could live off farming by-products. As it stands there are countries in South America that devote 50% of their land to raising soybean meant for animal feed. This was land that used to grow a variety of vegetables and grains and even fruit not very long ago.

That's why I find vegetarianism to be a good compromise. Dairy and eggs can still be produced at the current rate using farming by-products and some low-quality grain. The Animals slaughtered here as a by-product can be used for meat. Only works if people agree to eat meat once or twice a month.

>>6527953

>>6527953
I like meat too much to go fully vegetarian or vegan, but I can and do go the 'better, more humanely raised meat less often' route. Support local farms and farmers, have healthier happier animals, and get way tastier meat.