/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>6435282
I used to be a bully. One time I put peanuts in this nerd's sandwich at school. I thought he was just playing the old nut allergy card to get sympathy. He ended up having a severe reaction to it and was hospitalized. I went and visited him and told him how sorry I was and he woke up. It was like something out of a movie. Then he and his buddies invited me to play D&D because I had secretly always wanted to but was too embarrassed. I became their friend/protector after this and we had some sweet adventures.

>>6435292
When I was a kid, we had this husky (but retard strong) Russian kid that kept bullying us. One day, one friend flatout asked him why he was such an asshole to us. He was taken aback and said it was because no one else talked to him but us. We took pity on him and let him play Yu-Gi-Oh with us. From then on, he became our friend and that fat Russian protected us from bigger bullies.

God bless you Pavel, God bless you.

>>6435301
I thought Pavel didn't get to bring friends..

>>6435292
It's a good point that doubting people's allergies is a childish thing to do.
However there ARE child labor laws so waiters should be grown out of that phase... right?

>>6435311
They were not his friends.

>>6435292
This is fucking why I got my school to ban all nuts during lunch (elementary). My daughter is allergic and kids are shit.

>>6435322
That I can understand.

But this?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Allergies/student-nut-allergy-forced-college-withdrawal/story?id=19152744

I was in a few classes with her. She was an absolute cunt. The school did everything they could to accommodate her, but she wanted peanut guards at every room. Instead she just dropped out. She is a grown adult woman.

>>6435317
Playing double's advocate for a minute, I have never heard of an egg allergy. I suppose you can be allergic to most anything. Blame the skepticism on the asshole who pretend to be allergic to things just because they don't like them.

>>6435322
I'm gonna find your daughter and put my nuts in her mouth. Everyone suffers because of her allergy? A childhood devoid of lunchtime PB&J sandwiches?

>>6435328
>Playing double's advocate

>>6435328
Had a college professor who was allergic to eggs. He traveled a lot and knew how to say he had an allergy to eggs in most major languages.

Some people who are allergic to chicken eggs can eat duck eggs. There are several people in my area who raise ducks for their eggs due to intolerance or allergies to chicken eggs.

>>6435328
Not knowing about an allergy is perfectly fine as long as you don't spitefully put those foods in people's dishes.

While egg allergies are one of the most common food allergies, food allergies are kind of rare.

I know people just do it because I'm skinny and they think I'm on a fad diet.

>>6435328
>double's advocate
It's a doggy dog world, and you're a diamond dozen for all intensive purposes, my friend.

>>6435389
I know this is the food board, but stop feeding the troll

>>6435292
hahahahahaha sick reference bro.

just watched Freaks & Geeks for the first time you cant trick me

>>6435282
If we're being honest, I believe most people who say they have an allergy are lying or delusional.

If that makes you angry, don't blame me, blame all the people who fucking lie about allergies

I have a good deal of fairly severe allergies, luckily none result in anaphylaxis, but I gather if I actually set out to test, it wouldn't be impossible for it kill me. Most of the time my body just pumps out histamine and it causes systemic vasodilation (drop in blood pressure) which my heart rate rises to accommodate.

My observation is that IgG mediated reactions result in a mental haze and potentiate anxiety. This makes sense given that inflammation in the brain obviously yields effects and histamine also functions as a neurotransmitter. Mind gets sloppy, my head might work improperly and feel hot inside like I'm dragging myself through mud to half hack together some semblance of clear thought. Might sweat and be very easily fatigued, leaves you kind of burnt afterwards. IgA on the other hand as mentioned prior, results in a drop in blood pressure. Before I finally figured out the cause roughly 5 months living with a constant resting heart rate of ~160+ bpm.

To put it bluntly, shit was awful. And when people didn't take me seriously in restaurants, I got pissed and then jaded real fast. You cannot trust them, ever. One's own family goes either way... most of the time it isn't malice though, they just don't realize.

Couple a chronic pain condition of the trigeminal nerve with that, which for some reason either the perception of pain changes or the sense of muscle rigidity and anxiety makes it worse, I don't know, and I just decided to never deal again. I don't eat out. I don't eat other people's cooking, I'm pretty alright with that. And I'm never going back.

>>6435415
I'm with this guy, but that doesn't mean I'd ever add the thing they claim to be allergic to. Never. I never mess with customer's food even if they're complete rude fucktwats. A regular the other day had even admitted he says he's allergic to pineapple just to make sure he doesn't get it on his meal, but that's understandable if his food has been made wrong several times.

>>6435432
Oh, yeah, I'll still honor the request.

But I'll also completely roll my eyes and think you're a ridiculous person for saying it.

>>6435393
We're just memeing together dude. Chill out.

>>6435398

>>6435437
Why not just stow the attitude and do your job?

Turn it on its head and think about what a nuisance it is for the person who has to inform people and place what's very possibly undeserved faith in people, every single time. It's a massive layer of risk assessment and reading your environment you have to go through simply to eat out. People aren't stupid when it comes to this, your body language and attitude just gives cause not to trust you and to feel less confident about the situation in general.

tl;dr, you're a nuisance that needs to learn to put themselves in other people's shoes. Genuinely hope you aren't older than your early twenties and still struggling to outgrow this mindset.

>>6435457
Yeah, I guess it does kinda suck for the 1% of people who say that they have allergies and actually do.

But most of the time I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with fucking liars and drama queens. So if it's a nuisance, it's one they've brought on themselves.

>>6435462
"Some people suck so I'll make life shittier for everyone, for no good reason."

>>6435417
Since I developed my egg allergy (an IgA reaction) as an adult it took me a few years to figure out why my blood pressure was always so low.

But I like to go out with friends. My way of getting out of it is to only eat out at mexican places where there isn't much of an obsession over eggs.

>>6435415
Even if you're right, you have some level of responsibility to listen to costumers if that's what you're being paid to do.

>>6435468
The people who are making life shittier are the ones who lie about their allergies.

>>6435417
Do you at least eat things you're positive won't have any allergens in them? Or are your allergies too diverse?

>>6435437
Rolling your eyes at people tipping you is not a sound business practice.

>>6435476
You only truly have control of you, anon.

>>6435476
Not really. It's still your decision in the end. A little attitude is not a big deal though, as long as you aren't actively poisoning people.

I don't trick people into eating foods they're allergic to, but I do advise them to stop drinking tap water and to refuse vaccines in the future. It's probably what messed them up in the first place, and you never know. Maybe one day they'll get better.

>>6435504
don't forget to include them in your prayers

>>6435504
>refuse vaccines
oh lawdy, you just went full retard

>>6435473
In some ways it was fortunate that a lot of my health problems reached their peak when I was ~17. Not many of my habits, ideas, or desires were very ingrained.

It's pretty likely I was allergic to these things to some extent for a long time prior, maybe even from early childhood. I'm not sure what the trigger to make it so much worse was.

>>6435479
That's all I eat. My allergies are clustered in such a way that more or less all processed foods tends to be out by default.

The more layers of ambiguity and factors to control for / judge by I can strip away, the better. I mainly cook from scratch. The only thing that's actually processed I buy are cheeses, certain juices, and chocolate chips without soy. I could just eat the raw cocoa beans themselves, but it's nice to have the proper sweetened form, and I've yet to be able to match their manufacturing processes.

>>6435533
Well that doesn't sound so bad, aside from the occasional potluck/dinner party you aren't missing out on much. I'm sure you're a good cook if you do it so often. At least you can have cheese!

>>6435524
Can you tell me why you trust vaccines? The only honest stance is uncertainty, really.

Not drinking fluoride is more or less self explanatory.

>>6435555
herd immunity and basically the ton of research I've done on them. why don't you trust them?

>~DE GESO
what is this

>>6435476
Are they lying though? Maybe saying allergy is easier than explaining that they have a disorder, it reacts with their medication, it causes reactions, it is related to something they are allergic to and it's a risk or their body otherwise can't handle it.

I have an allergy to peanuts, cashews, pecans, hazelnuts and pistachios. I avoid almonds because almonds are generally processed in facilities where there are nuts. I avoided red peppercorns for awhile because it is related to the cashew and causes reactions in some people, turns out I'm not one of those people. In some cases I'll ask what is in the pesto that is being used, or ask to go without pesto, because sometimes it is made with nuts.

You don't know why someone is asking. Sure, there could be some people who say that because they don't like something in their meal but who cares, make it how they request it in case they do have an allergy. Save the eyerolling for people who want icecream to go and call to complain that it melted.

>>6435555
I developed allergies well before I had gotten a vaccine and before I had access to tap water. (Our well water was not potable so we had our own water treatment system)

>>6435563
Because I don't know what's in them, any prediction I can make for outcomes invariably has higher chances for being inadequate or producing errors than if I'd manufactured them myself. I just don't have enough information I can verify or trust.

And I don't have a verifiably accurate understanding of the whole. For example, allergic reactions and whatnot have been observed around injection sites with the hypothesized cause being aluminum based compounds. It's difficult to know how our immune system will respond and what pathways will trip what down the line. Our immune system tends to be an unpredictable mess.

In truth, I don't really care about herd immunity and am inclined to think it has flaws as an idea. I don't know how things actually are and I won't claim to, but I was obviously vaccinated myself. If I ever have children I have no idea how I'll handle it, this all crosses my mind pretty frequently. When my ability to predict breaks down I'm apt to just do nothing and wait for more information, this is a case that I think is pretty far from any internal reconciliation on my own part.

"food allergies" don't exist.

Only "the weak must die" exists.

>>6435577
I'm not really suggesting a direct causation (nor really a correlation), but it is a possibility. For me it was probably being given antibiotics excessively as a child which weakened intestinal lining or screwed with my gut flora ecology repeatedly, coupled with chronic stress.

>>6435533
People usually lose/develop allergies throughout puberty. I entered puberty at around 8 years old and one day when I was 11 I started getting sick from eating eggs. I assumed it was because of the sulfur in egg whites.

I didn't learn that egg allergies were a thing until I almost turned 19, then I learned about all the other things I hated that had eggs in them, like ranch dressing, thousand island sauce. I learned that I hated a lot of sweets because they aren't always baked at a high enough temperature to denature all the protein I'm allergic to. (Like brownies, muffins, and anything that comes in a quick-mix but calls for eggs in the instructions)

It was confusing because I've never gotten sick from eating a certain brand of mayo that is my family's go-to brand, but it turns out that they take out the yolk with a syringe so there's very little contamination.

>>6435389
I REALLY REALLY like this post, a lot.

Wordplay, literary techniques in general, have always been my guilty pleasure. Thank you for your post.

>>6435616
In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.

Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.

>>6435476
"People lying about their allergies are the true problem because they cause me to act rudely in a subtle and passive aggressive way, thus making other patrons anxious and unhappy.

Truly they are the problem, so I'm going to be an asshole because it makes me feel better, although it benefits absolutely no one."

>>6435605
So I should kill you, anon? Your existence is clearly negative to an extent... you wish badly on others, you aren't ticking in a way I like. You have fallen prey to something awful within you, quite weakly.

It is clearly you possess a nonviable trait relative to your ecology, and you will be scrubbed out as a result. The weak and unfit must die, stupidity and myopia do not exist.

>>6435628
Very good, Ricky, very good.

>>6435631
Actually, it improves society.

If fewer people lie about their allergies, it makes it more likely for those who do have allergies to be believed. Ergo, by behaving rudely to people who lie about allergies, anon is discouraging their behavior and making the world a better place.

>>6435611
That mostly mirrors how it was for me. I always knew some things were "bad" for you, there were hard reasons they were bad and some of it was dependent on the individual, but I had some underlying assumption that the body was much more durable and able to self regulate than it really is, with no actual substance to back that. I guess I viewed myself, wrongfully, as some kind of mostly closed system with relatively simple I/O, and hadn't really thought beyond that.

Allergies were definitely a pretty rapid mind expansion, and spurred quite a shift in me. Started to see all these events in the past take on a new angle and a sense of clarity where it fairly cleanly clicks into place.

>>6435654
The whole problem revolves around ignoring collateral damage. There are neater and more effective ways of achieving the same "fix" for what is already a pretty trivial "problem".

>>6435605

>>6435632
>So I should kill you

Come do it.

>>6435670
I wouldn't threaten that anon, they killed me twice by putting eggs in my sandwich.

>>6435670
Unfortunately, I am not a killer anon. But I can tell you love that adrenaline spike too.

You missed the point of the post.

>>6435555

I have an avocado allergy that I developed when I was 19. I absolutely hate eating out these days because everyone seems to want to put avocado in fucking everything. I usually try to avoid anything that outright states it contains avocado, but I love trying new things and if something sounds interesting but happens to have avocado in it, I'll ask for it to be made without. I hate having to be the inconvenience that asks for something to be made differently, and I'm always worried they'll forget, or just not take me seriously.

I know there are people out there who lie about allergies just because they're picky, and they are assholes, but you can't just stop believing people who tell you they have a food allergy because some people lie. Is it really worth taking a risk with someone's well-being, or possibly their life, in order to "catch a liar"? Their offense is annoying, but it's pretty fucking minor comparatively.

>>6435727
His act is admirable. Unfortunately, I merely watch and wait, even though I believe the choices and beliefs of others are often left wanting.

>>6435736
That's interesting, where I live, avocado on anything is at least an extra $1.75 and waiters love you for not ordering it.

>>6435591
So because you don't understand how vaccines work you think they shouldn't be used? Despite all the vaccines in effect that have lowered infectious disease rates? Sounds like a good idea.

>>6435793
I never said vaccines didn't work, and there wasn't any observed correlation between their use and disease rates.

>So because you don't understand how vaccines work you think they shouldn't be used?
No one truly knows how they work. In my mind, there is little inherent connection between knowledge and truth. A lack of grasp on verifiably true truths is an axiom for all matters, so you just weigh things, derive effective approaches, and figure degrees of confidence you're willing to invest. In this case, I think there's a lot that's ambiguous, and my faith cannot be placed in the principle even if the manufacturing and intentions of others are perfect, predictable, and as they seem to be on the surface.

It's a haze. Which is why I said uncertainty is the only truly honest stance. I mean really, look at examples like this: http://jem.rupress.org/content/207/8/1637.full
We have a lot of broad macro principles worked out, some good heuristics that serve us well, but a lot of the actual branching implications (and even function of, ie, why they even work at all) of vaccines are underdeveloped at best. Which is why I'll keep repeating, it becomes a matter of risk assessment. I don't claim to know and luckily I don't have kids and I don't have to make a choice, might never have to make that choice either. Right now it seems anything but clear.

>>6435812
Oh. That link isn't about vaccines, by the way. It's just an example of how much of a multifaceted matter figuring out our immune system tends to come down to.

We just make fun of them in the kitchen. I have a ridiculous number of stories about these sorts of people. For instance last night they just wanted us to leave off a portion of the gluten in their dish (it was sauce) because they were "cutting back on gluten".

Anyway just do whatever your fucking customers ask you fucking baby, then make fun of them with your coworkers like everyone else who isn't some edgy 17-year-old who wants to "HURR DURR I'LL SHOW THOSE VEGETARIANS, HERE COMES DA BACON".

You can't even spell queue for fucks sake.

>>6435766

>and waiters love you for not ordering it.

uhh, what? Why would they love you for not ordering something that increases the overall check price?

>>6435837

actually I think I'm retarded and it's cue

whatever I'm fucking tired, welcome to 17 hour shifts

>>6435282
Simply put
>I don't have a problem, therefore nobody else has this problem
And this is every fucking where. Not just about allergies, but everything from privacy, to drugs, to police violence, to software bugs, to school, to gender equality. Nobody will admit something could be a problem unless they themselves experience that problem.

>>6435844
The problem with phrases or idioms that include phonetically identical words, is that both meanings tend to look right.

So which is right? Both, neither, whatever. I half figure it doesn't even matter and people just get way too bent out of shape. As long as a record of the original exists and it isn't something retarded like tacking on "literally" when it's actually not, or implicitly figurative to begin with.

Why do you accept sandwiches from shitty people that will risk killing you if it means finding out if you really are telling them the truth or not?

I am fine if you have an allergy, but if you just straight up don't like the food because you are a picky eater and your mum brought you up on french fries and pizza your whole life then fuck you.
Also why would people lie about allergies? most allergies are only over good foods why would you pretend you cant eat good foods?!

>>6435841
Waiters generally don't own the business itself and moan that their boss does not pay them enough for carrying plates. They'd love it if they just went in to an empty dining room where they stood about all day occasionally glancing up at the easy day of work.

>>6435812
You don't have to understand every detail yourself.

All you need to know is that vaccines have historically prevented infectuous diseases and eradiated quite a few locally and two globally.

Herd immunity means that some vaccinated people still get sick for some reason or theother, but the surrounding immune people prevent the disease from ever reaching them, thus keeping them safe. More unvaccinated people means this 'wall' will start showing cracks, exposing the non-immune to danger.

Unvaccinated people nowadays benefit from herd immunity, without contributing anything and even endangering others. They are parasites.

>>6435837
You're right that I spelled cue wrong, but to be fair, you corrected it to an entirely different word.

>>6435812
>No one truly knows how they work
except that they do, and retards like you are a danger for everyone else

>>6435877
I need to understand enough to satisfy my own risk assessment. In some cases that means understanding everything down to even the most minute detail myself, in others it doesn't. This falls under the former.

>All you need to know is that vaccines have historically prevented infectuous diseases and eradiated quite a few locally and two globally.
>All you need to know
Never how it works. Never how it will work. Everything we experience is a quantization of what really is, and when you know this, you do not ignore sources of error. I can't come up with any clever "by that same logic, blah blah" right now, but there's a lot to be said for. We can ignore history. We can refuse to learn from our mistakes. We can biasedly ignore half of what we know with any given choice, and go ahead and do whatever we half thought we thought out and whine about the results later, or we can grow up, as a race, and make an effort to get it right the first time around. We aren't new to this, we know better. Some simple two cherry picked facts is never "all we need to know".

I know what herd immunity is and how it works. As for anyone being a parasite, I'm not too inclined towards collectivist thought personally. There is a base layer or realizing that everything is connected and every choice you make will always effect things and people beyond just yourself (and the inverse), but that doesn't necessitate taking actions strictly for other people just because they happen to exist and you happen to share space with them. Either way, people will make their choices. Short of an outright epidemic the immunity afforded by vaccination is fairly effective, those who are part of the collective or care to be tied into some greater whole with that sort of "I will become part of the wall" thought, have little to complain about. It's only the people who aren't vaccinated who are at risk. And almost no one gets a choice in that to begin with.

>>6435900
>except they do
Do explain then. Pick a vaccine, any vaccine, and tell me all about it.

Actually. I'll make it easier. Pick an anything. Literally, an anything, and tell me all about how it interacts with the body as a system, as well as convince me that you aren't missing any pieces and that nothing is ambiguous.

>>6435909
i sure hope you're not eating any food, who knows what it could do

>>6435921
I don't like responding to posts that bring up points already covered by the post they stemmed from.

Go back and read again.

>>6435812
>I never said vaccines didn't work
I never said you said vaccines didn't work? I just think your reasoning for refusing vaccination, and telling other people not to get vaccinated, is retarded. To say to someone "because I don't understand every small detail about how vaccines work, you should risk contracting an infectious disease which can cause severe morbidity or mortality" is extremely stupid. If knowledge is your issue, go pick up any immunology text book and you'll get a thorough explanation; saying no one truly knows how vaccines work is incorrect. My point is that there is enough evidence about the mechanism behind vaccination and the protection they provide that you shouldn't refuse because you don't understand every little detail.

>>6435927
i dont know what possible damage that stimulus could do to my brain, better safe than sorry

>>6435909
All I wanted was restaurant horror stories and now it's all about criticizing the art of medicine and how the ever-changing nature of the human body makes certain things very difficult to scientifically verify.

If you were my waiter I would certainly make sure you don't get a tip.

>>6435389
>intensive purposes
intensive PORPOISES, dolt.

>>6435909
How in depth do i have to be, if I mention immune cells are you going to cry "too ambiguous"?

>>6435282
>Be me at 14
>Don't have any allergies period, didn't even know what allergies were really. Of course, I'd seen commercials for allergy medicine, but I just figured it was like a cold
>Friend is an asthmatic who's allergic to peanuts.
>And then I fucked up
>I made him a banana sandwich, well I was always taught to keep the bananas from slipping out, you use a bit of peanut butter. (I was sheltered, shut up.)

If you haven't jabbed your friend with his epipen and personally carried him down two flights of stairs to the front with EMS on the way, you don't know shit about fucking up.

>>6435962
if you can't express it in terms of a unified theory of quantum mechanics and gravity you might as well know nothing

>>6435931
>I never said you said vaccines didn't work?
It seemed half implied.
"Despite all the vaccines in effect that have lowered infectious disease rates? "

>and telling other people not to get vaccinated
When did I do that. The rest of your post is null because I never said this. Why you tried to build a post around something that so obviously isn't the case, I'll never know. Seems like people tend to cram everything into black and white terms, not trying to be a dick ether, that's just my observation. What I said simply does not fit in a binary "for and against" scale, and as long as you try to put it there, you won't understand anything I say.

>If knowledge is your issue, go pick up any immunology text book and you'll get a thorough explanation; saying no one truly knows how vaccines work is incorrect.
Done that, and it just ain't so. It's comforting to feel like you know but right now to do so requires ignoring a few glaring holes, and it's usually revealed to be pretty far from the case some time down the line. Immunology is still a field very much in its infancy despite all we've revealed and all we can do. Maybe you should pick up some immunology text books yourself and make an even cursory review of the present day literature if you really find yourself thinking otherwise. It's a history lesson and a forecast of the future all in one. Not sure if I could say I wish you were correct or not.
[character limit]

>>6435988
>My point is that there is enough evidence about the mechanism behind vaccination
All the above aside, I think this is where our core disagreement really stems from. To you all the available evidence, all of its implications, and all of its holes, is a mountain of evidence for efficacy and that what we have is good enough. For me it's a mountain of loose ends and ambiguities that necessitate caution and more precise long term safety studies. We often seem to pursue all the wrong aspects instead of chipping away at what already is in a very orderly, serialized, and comprehensive sense. This leaves me quite wary and unsatisfied, at present, there isn't enough to make a solid judgement one way or another. It also requires more rigidly enforced standardization and unfortunately, some kind of transparent and verifiable oversight that I just can't quite conceive of.

>>6435932
Good thinking. It's hard to change or put in effort, and sometimes knowing can be destructive and certainly won't make you happy.

>>6435962
That's relative to the topic. If it needs more specificity, or needs to build on something branching like that be adequate in its own context, then yes "immune cells" could be seen as too ambiguous to be meaningful. We're confined to a certain scale as humans, and tend to work with broad macro concepts. They can be adequate, you just have to be smart about it and think if what you're communicating actually conveys the information properly.

Which isn't really that hard and a fancy way of putting something you pretty well knew before I even responded. Though yeah, expressing it on a quantum level in a clear way would be a neat scale to work with for some things. Actually, I change my mind. Nothing you say is meaningful unless it contains measurements at or below the planck length. Unless you can figure out how to make that happen, into the trash it goes.

>>6435966
one time I think I accidentally gave someone a cross-contaminated thing I got for donating to a bake sale.

I didn't want it and I knew everyone else at home wouldn't want it. He would have been the last person I saw that day aside from family so I was like... please take this.

I didn't see him at school again for a week. Remembered that he asked if it had peanuts in it. I thought I killed him. (This took place out in the middle of no where on the night of a really bad snow storm so getting to the hospital would have been difficult)

>>6435854

that makes no sense given the amount of tips they receive (at least in the US) for additional customers

hell, even if the dining room is packed they get to stand around for at least 20-30% of the time while the BoH is fucking slammed, takes no breaks, and makes 1/4 as much

>>6435895

which I also corrected like 45 minutes before you responded

>>6435988
>When did I do that. The rest of your post is null because I never said this

>>6435524
>but I do advise them to stop drinking tap water and to refuse vaccines in the future
There you go

A vaccine shows a pathogens antigens to the hosts immune system. These antigens are processed and presented to memory B cells which are kept within lymph nodes and continually cloned. When an infection occurs and the pathogen displays the same antigen, the memory B cell specific to the antigen recognises it and stimulates other immune cells to attack the pathogen. Where are the glaring holes?

>>6436052
Misquoted
>>6435504

>>6436022
oh, sorry

>>6436052
I guess technically avoiding vaccines when you have allergies is good to an extent if they are chicken, chicken egg, or aluminum allergies. I have an aluminum allergy so I can't take all shots, but I can't take any nasal vaccines because of my egg allergy.

>>6436052
Ah, I see what happened. I started in the conversation here. >>6435555 Not sure why I thought it was obvious I was a different poster, I guess I never expected it to matter. It's 4am or so here.

>Where are the glaring holes?
The glaring holes lie in that this is a drastic oversimplification of how our immune system actually functions, and how the vaccine actually work. Take the case of using aluminum compounds, there are a whole series of reactions and conditions that this allows which affords the body the ability to even do any of what you mentioned.

Beyond that, there are edge cases, weird things that happen, cross reactivity is an example of this. Reyes Syndrome is an example of this. Metabolic syndromes are sometimes an example of this. Examples of how many aspects go into pinning down even one observation's basis are best highlighted in papers like the one I linked before -
http://jem.rupress.org/content/207/8/1637.full
List goes on. A lot of the time something just works and we use it. We have some ideas in advance based on what we already know. Sometimes this is accurate, sometimes not. But it's not so perfect and straightforward, everything is connected, branching unintended effects are not uncommon, and there's just a lot to evaluate and control for.

I'm lack toast and taller ant

I didn't think people could be stupid or spiteful enough to try and "test" if you had an allergy or not until I read this thread. I've always had the utmost respect for people's allergies, it seems like a real shitty deal to test something that might kill the person.

Christ.

>>6436114
I don't think it's a matter of sampling bias in this thread, for what it's worth. In my own experience and from what other people have told me, it's a pretty ridiculously common attitude.

>>6436088
It's the heart afraid of breaking,
that never learns to dance
It's the dream afraid of waking,
that never takes the chance
It's the one who won't be taken,
who cannot seem to give
And the soul afraid of dying,
that never learns to live

>>6436088
The use of adjuvants are pretty well covered in any immuno text book, the interactions they have within the body are well known about. Can you give me some evidence of "weird things happening" which directly correlates with a lack of knowledge in a particular area of immunization?

>>6436126
The custom concern for the people, build up your monuments and steeples to wear out our eyes.
I get up just about noon, my head sends a message for me to reach fr my shoes, and then walk. "Gotta go to work, gotta go to work, gotta have a job!"
Goes through the parking lot fields, didn't see no signs that they would yield. This'll never end, this'll never end, this'll never stop.
Message read on the bathroom wall said, "I don't feel at all like I thought." And we're losing all touch, losing all touch, building a desert.

Either way. It ain't about taking chances, it's about having the intelligence to stop doing the same reckless things over and over with little sense of self awareness. There comes a point when you have to stop and learn to look ahead, jump off the waves of "hey neat, oh god did I fuck up again, mourn what we lost, next time we'll get it right", and repeat infinitely. We can post platitudes all day.

>>6436126
>>6436137
/ck/ has become a very weird place lately...

>>6435292

Jack is that you? It's Steve... I remember that time you put that shit in my sandwich. I wish I could've kicked the shit out of you at the time.

So my question for people against vaccinations is always this:

Since you are willing to possibly contribute to endangering other's lives, especially immunocompromised individuals including children and old people to presumably protect your own health, do you:

Exercise regularly, abstain from smoking, keep at a healthy weight, have a good diet, refrain from drinking excessively, make sure your cholesterol and blood pressure are a normal levels, pay attention to the air quality in your environment, practice safe sex, make sure your food and water are clean, get appropriate check ups and treatment, and oh yes, don't drive a fucking car?

So if you are doing all these things, which contribute to the top 10 causes of death, and you feel like you can now be on your high horse about vaccines, the next step is to please, for the love of god, pick up a fucking book, go to a website not run by a fucking crazy person, and read about how vaccines actually work instead of listing over and over completely erroneous reasons such as:
>they cause autism
>i don't know how they work
>i don't know how they work therefore no one else does
>I don't know the long term effects
>I don't know the long term effects therefore no one else does
>those diseases aren't really a big deal
>not vaccinating doesn't affect anyone else
>the body's natural defenses are better than chemicals
>I don't know what's in vaccines so it must be bad
>I have done a ton of research and know what's right (but still apparently don't know how they work)
>vaccines contain things with strange names

as far as food allergy goes, I accept it and don't feel salty as long as it's not gluten or something trendy and obviously bullshit, but it's not worth the risk of hurting another person just so I can feel vindicated.

>>6436164
plus, asking people on a food board about how vaccines work in detail... it's so obvious how that's going to turn out that it's almost dishonest

I just hate the attitude of,
>ummm, if you're allergen, then show me your epipens? People with allergies shouldn't be allowed to eat out lmao...

I believe kids when their parent has told me or give benefit of the doubt when it's a common allergen, but honestly I've had kids use "allergic" as "I don't like how my mom cooks it, so I don't like it" like eggs and carrots especially.

>>6436171
yeah I agree, it reminds me of stories from people that need to use wheelchairs but aren't totally incapable of walking or standing a little bit that end up getting an enormous amount of shit from strangers about it. not only can they not imagine someone needing a wheelchair in a different way than not having legs or something but they are so indignant at the possibility of some perceived special treatment they just flip out without thinking.

>>6436176
Eggs used to be my favorite food...

But a symptom of egg allergies is being repulsed by them. I was very conflicted when my allergy developed.

>>6435311
shut up lol

reminder that food allergies were caused by genetically modifying our foods.

Just like autism, everybody will be allergic to some kind of food in 20 years.
EVERYBODY

>>6435570
the sound calamari makes when i bite into it.

>>6436182
You can't really help but not to eat them though

I knew one girl who was allergic to peanuts.
She was nice and quiet in high school and the only reason I found out about it was because the next school year they banned peanuts on campus and she told me it was because of her.

After a while she turned into a bitch, got dumped by her boyfriend of 3 years, turned full radical feminist (i hate men etc.) and probably died form a peanut in her weed brownie earlier this year.

I've had nothing but bad times with people who have food allergies.
Same with a girl who was allergic to chocolate. She was very bitchy, no sense of humor, had a SEXY ASS VOICE, but damn I couldn't handle her.

>>6436193
yes, but have you had eggs benedict?

It's funny so many people have egg allergies, my mom has migraines triggered by them, anyone else?

>>6436204
I don't think migraines are a symptom of egg allergies, she should probably get checked out for something else.

Have a cousin who has Celiac Disease. Always felt kind of bad for him since most people equate someone who says they can't eat gluten with being one of those asshole health nuts.

I work a deli line and beat off with peanut oil as lube. No gloves, no hand washing.

>>6436214
Weak! Real strong men crack a dozen eggs over their dick and a gallon of milk three times a day.

>>6435325
>peanut guards

>>6435282
Blame the hordes of special little snowflakes faggots who think faking an allergy is cool.

>>6436189
Food Babe pls go

>>6436164
This post is built on ideas I don't see as valid from the get go.

Health is not some meter. It's not (meaningfully) some absolute value, there are many ways to be unhealthy. There are many ways to be healthy. There are many ways to perceive both. People's risk assessment tends to follow. In an ideal world where everyone is honest and aware of themselves, one's actions simply reflect what you want life and their reality to be.

More or less by your logic there's no difference between eg a stroke, and liver damage. Naturally people are going to make choices and weight things in such a way that they avoid the outcome they dislike more, because they aren't the same. I half wonder if I'm missing something in your point, because I shouldn't have to be saying this. This can't be it.

>erroneous reasons such as
Great job adding to the discussion. You made a list and called it erroneous, wow! Insightful. Now, you should follow it up with -why- they're erroneous. I mean really, you complain that things are listed over and over... yet you list these things... add nothing else.... and people with your mindset post like that.... over and over. In every topic. Joy.

>>6435577
You know newborn babies get vaccinated, right?

>>6436300
We will probably not know everything about the human body's functions for at least 200 years. Are you going to let your paralyzing fear of the unknown expose your child to the very real dangers of infectious diseases such as polio? Are you going to tolerate others endangering your child?

>>6435282
The problem is the current trend of food "intolerant" people. if you are gluten intolerant, you aint going to die if their is trace amounts of freaking soy in your noodles, in fact, chances are you could eat a sandwich and feel perfectly goddamn fine, however if you eat that shit in excess in one sitting, YES, PERHAPS YOU WILL GET THE SHITS, OR AN UPSET STOMACH.

An old "friend" of mine claimed she was gluten intolerant, on top of her already picky diet this is after seeing a professional, who said there was nothing wrong, however she had already cut back on the freaking bread she consumed, so was naturally feeling better. By chance i was refereed to the same gastroenterologist, he was super thorough, great guy, said at the end, well it just seems to be a case of IBS.
I was worried, can I not eat certain things anymore? Nope. Im just sensitive to foods.

Now i know what effects me and what doesnt, but that shit aint going to kill me, I know what Im getting into when I eat grapes, or onion in a sitting, but their will always be those people who just have to make it impossible for friends and chefs.

Sorry for rant, but I really hate people playing up shit

>>6435389
Anon I love you and you have made my morning. Keep being sassy, my friend.

>>6435628
Please marry me

>>6436208
as a chronic migraine sufferer, we dont actually know much about migraines as a society. sometimes the triggers are easy, and sometimes those are food allergies. other times, there seems to be no cause or pattern. the human brain is a funny thing and we havent really mapped it yet

>>6436266
Doesnt matter. none of this fucking matters. dont you get it? its better to oblige 1000 fakers in order to oblige 1 real deathly allergy than to have even a single person suffer or die because of someone who didnt take it seriously. shut the fuck up, stop rolling your eyes, and oblige the allergen requests. every time. cheerfully. because youre an uppity cunt and you need to not be

>>6436266
So, if someone were to fake an allergy, that's kind of fucked up, right? It means that the person is so desperate for pity that they are willing to lie to other people. The lie is pretty insignificant, but still, that's pretty weird.

So then how desperate for pity do you have to be to see someone else complaining about an ailment, and then thinking, "FUCK that dude, he's probably lying, I'm going to put him in his place!" That's fucked up for the same reason, except way worse because you're so jealous of the pity other people are getting that you're willing to actively harm them.

>>6436746
No man, don't you get it? OP has to go and correct everyone else so that I'm not FORCED TO BE RUDE to allergenic customers!

>>6435555

>>6436189

reminder that conspiracy theorists are intolerable cunts

>>6436794

fucking this, I just make fun of them just like everyone else in the kitchen does when they have retarded requests ("I can't have dairy, take the cheese off. Oh it's ok that there's cream in the au gratin potatoes though", etc)

>>6436300
because anon, no one should have to explain to you how 'I don't understand therefore no one else does' is wrong. or how 'the names of chemicals are big and scary and I choose not to look up what they are therefore I am scared and they are bad' is wrong.

as far as the risk factors.. here is something else no one should have to explain to you:
putting yourself at risk for preventable, life threatening diseases, with known causes and known preventative measures that kill millions of people a year but refusing to get vaccinated/ or refusing to vaccinate your children because of unfounded, paranoid worries about your health makes you a hypocrite.

>>6437139
>reminder that conspiracy theorists are intolerable cunts
Reminder that many conspiracy theories have turned out correct in the past, and even been less extreme than reality.

Reminder that the common perception of a "conspiracy theorist" and the mere notion of "conspiracy theorism" as a thing, your immediate inclination towards scoffing, etc, was a CIA tactic, developed and pushed hard during the cold war. It makes people and information easier to control, for obvious reasons.

>>6435282
My cousin is allergic to a lot of things including tomatoes, onions, barley, and rice. Eating anywhere with her is hilarious but sometimes people are rude because they think she is being intentionally difficult. I feel bad for her but she is so used to it now it doesn't seem to phase her.

She recently "challenged" rice again and it seems like she passed so she's pretty happy about it.