/ck/ - Food & Cooking

It's not going to make much of a thread though.

Not unless a Greek lays claim to rationalism, and then loudly complains that the diaspora is less rational or some shit.

I'll agree as long as people stop putting beans in chili and california agrees to stop making pizzas.

>>5395070
>I'll agree as long as people stop putting beans in chili

Nothing wrong with that, plus the butthurt about it is from SUPER MACHO MANLY MEN as opposed to an actual culture.

>>5395070

> avocados, avocados in everything

Goddammit, California. Stop making food.

>>5395065
what is that device you're typing this on? They have no relation to you, you don't even know them. How many of your favorite authors or musicians do you really know. See how unimportant personal relation is to appreciation.

The culinary arts like your music or books is an art form. You would not draw on a painting, edit a book or change the lyrics to a song because you thought you'd like it better. Then why do you insist on changing the composition of a plate of food that has an intended flavor and aesthetic?

>>5395089
What in the hell are you talking about? Dishes throughout different cultures were based off of locally available ingredients, not some deluded attempt at creating "art".

All I know is that every cuisine gets exponentially better after a few generations in America and it pisses off the fuzzy little foreigners to no end.

>>5395065
So crazy that people are proud of their culture, right?

>>5395102
Your culture is not as good as you think it is. That's why we change it.

>>5395094
eating purely for sustenance is different (see haiti)

Although in most instances food's flavors are combined in different ways because it produces a favorable or different outcome this is art.

>>5395102
>Being proud of something completely beyond your control that you contributed absolutely nothing towards

Einstein was white, therefore I'm responsible for the theory of relativity.

>>5395109
>HURR DURR
Nice strawman.

>>5395108
That means absolutely nothing when shoving a can Spaghettios into your vagina is considered art.

Those flavors are combined in different ways because they taste good, not to evoke emotion or thought which is generally what art is considered to be.

>>5395113
Go on, show me how that's a strawman and that you're not just misusing fallacies in place of a proper argument.

You actually pulled the first strawman, for the record.

>look down on putting ketchup on your pig dick smoothie
>be proud of a shitty salad in a bun

>>5395113
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

>>5395094
omg fuck... I thought you were talking about altering something someone cooked for you, like adding a shit ton of salt or other things. I didn't think you were talking about amending recipes. Yeah totally agree then, the culinary arts are a living art they change their expression with time. Anything else is stagnation.

>>5395109
If Einstein was your grandfather, you could say, "My grandfather was responsible for the theory of relativity"

Culture however, isn't a specific subject. It's a collection of things that the people who lived with your family-past and present- all collectively contributed to.

If you helped someone build a house as a group, or if your family built the house that you live in, it's right to call that your family's house.

It's about respect. Respecting the things that people who came before you contributed to the world-whether that's good bad or otherwise.
Without the stepping stones and history of the people before us, we would have to "reinvent the wheel" so to speak, every new generation.

>>5395115
art does not have to evoke emotion, or even portray a theme. It can just be.
Although I think there's way more theme and composition of flavor and cooking that you realize.

>>5395132
This suggests that the people whining actually contributed to what they're complaining about.

>>5395122
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
"A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument. "

You wrote this:
"The whole "MUH CULTURE" shit really needs to stop; how terrible of a person are you that you need to cling to the accomplishments of others who had no relation to you?"

This is stupid. Why would you even assume that people "cling to the accomplishments of others", rather than them valuing tradition and finding enjoyment in their common ways.

>>5395136
>Although I think there's way more theme and composition of flavor and cooking that you realize.

As somebody with a formal education in cooking I'd disagree; what I'm saying is food is not purely art but CAN be art.

>>5395142
Have you been on this board for more than two days? There's always a couple threads up bitching about this sort of thing. Tradition is also just a means for people to attempt to rationalize their aversion to change.

>>5395145
>formal education in cooking
lol, disregarded

>>5395145
it's art by definition, it is art.
Even consumerist bullshit is still technically art no matter which you slice it.

>>5395155
Culinology, actually. You dismissing entire arguments based off legitimate credibility doesn't make you look any more intelligent.

>>5395154
>Tradition is also just a means for people to attempt to rationalize their aversion to change.
No, it means that there are peple who value tradition, not that hate change. Where do you even get this stuff?

>>5395157
Yes, but technically anything is art- we both know what general definition we're using to assess the legitimacy for claims of artistic merit, however, otherwise how could this sort of argument be even somewhat credible if smearing feces on a canvas with a tampon is also considered art?

>>5395139
Their families may have- or people who they're close to families may have, or their ancestors.

People who havent lived in or contributed to the society in any way? Don't speak for other people's cultures- they're big boys/girls, they can defend their own culture if they see fit.

However, my statements are less about food culture- as food is something that I think can and should and does change as the years go on.
But I completely understand the concept that someone who belongs to a specific group saying, "Hey that's our thing, leave it alone!"

>>5395160
>legitimate credibility
Must have missed that

>>5395169
>Their families may have- or people who they're close to families may have

Never happens considering the food in question is hundreds to thousands of years old.

>or their ancestors

Then they have absolutely no right to complain. This is all tribalist nonsense.

>>5395164

>it means that there are peple who value tradition, not that hate change

What's the difference?

>>5395169
>But I completely understand the concept that someone who belongs to a specific group saying, "Hey that's our thing, leave it alone!"

I can understand it as well but being the practical person that I am, what are you going to do if I don't?

There are already enough people in this world that huff and puff over things. You can't stop cultural appropriation.

>>5395164
...valuing tradition and valuing change are pretty mutually exclusive.

>>5395167
It really depends, do you consider classical music performance art? They're playing a song that was written hundreds of years ago with very little change. But in their performance the composer might make slight changes to change the overall sound of the piece with nuance.

What I'm saying is that cooking is art whether you're rehearsing a piece made hundreds of years ago by some daft nameless lady or making something new. Your use of flavor, texture, temperature is deliberate, it has a character. The other things you put with it to complement or contrast are deliberate. This in my mind makes it art whether it's juvenile or not.

>>5395188
You're a girl, btw. amirite?

>>5395065
What you are trying to do is this:

Being a lazy fuck who doesnt research shit.
Being a lazy fuck who doesnt want to follow a recepie.
Being a lazy fuck who switches ingredients for convinience.
Being a bitching cunt when confronted and questioned about you being a lazy fuck.

>>5395188
I'm honestly not seeing what sort of point you're trying to make.

>>5395070
>>5395083

>tfw I like beans in chili and I love avocados

I'm usually a snob too, oh well.

>>5395193
I'm anonymous, it's not your business.

>>5395184
Not really, life isn't the internet, one doesn't have to fall directly on one side of two aggressively opposed camps. Balanced opinion is a thing that exists in the real world.

>>5395198
That's what I thought. Your 'logic' fits the bill.

>>5395178
Really, I think that people should just speak their mind about it, try to show people who are open to it about their culture and their food and everything.

If someone makes something they think is wrong- they should tell that person and why.

And if that doesn't do anything?
They have the right to do whatever they want with what you've said- even if that's basically throwing your opinion in the trash.

>>5395065
ITT: culture deprived whites from flyover land being mad that I didn't mention their casserole of canned string beans and fried onions from a box

I had it, it wasn't terrible. You happy now?

Jesus you people are sensitive for a race that has never known hardship

Most cultures outside of America aren't worth a bag of wet shit. That's the #1 reason they cling to their food.

>>5395195
the point is
it's not purely instrumentality at this point in time. Art plays a central role in the creation of new foods and in most of the recipes we passed down.

>>5395175
>What's the difference?
Its not that they hate change, its that they value tradition.

>>5395184
One doesnt have to hate change to value tradition.

>>5395204
Fair enough!

>>5395204
It's not their food, it's food some assholes who they never knew made thousands of years ago.

it is really an american issue where almost no one born here has culture and often has to take from what ever culture that they were born into.

>>5395231
Mr. faggot would you be so kind to read this reply a fellow anon made?
>>5395245
Then go and choke on a bag of dicks...

You can make food however you wish, what offends people is when you call it something that it is not.

If you don't follow the recipe the result is not that of the recipe, that should be obvious. There is no room for alterations, but infinite space for new recipes. Just don't lie and for example call something chinese food when you're not chinese. It is not a type of food it is the chinese cuisine, chinese cooking tradition. Your alterations aren't part of their tradition.

>>5395271
>Just don't lie and for example call something chinese food when you're not chinese.

It's pretty well known that "X food" means "in the style of X"

>>5395245
I have a culture, most middle class (largely white) suburban people in America seem not to unless they are like 2nd to 3rd generation Americans or Southern.

I asked my friend what traditional foods he ate and he replied "idk green bean casserole I guess" I was saddened.

They do have a culture. Just because it isn't interesting, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It's like when somebody says they don't have an accent. Yes you do, you tard.

>>5395308
White Anglo Americans have no culture.

>>5395308
The post-WWII era environment greatly discouraged any and all forms of ethnic culture in euro-Americans its not like an accent.

Middle Class Suburban culture is the antithesis of ethnic culture

>>5395299
Why?

Why the hell does clinging to past traditions make some people happy, or feel they're suddenly better than others because you have "culture" that you in no way had any part in creating, but are just blindly following?

>>5395313
Kicking the shit out of yellow and brown people is my culture.

>>5395320
While he eats pho and tacos.

>>5395323
To the victor goes the spoils.

>>5395317
You dont have one so you wouldnt uderstand.

>>5395317
Having a ethno cultural identity does not mean you blindly follow and never critique.

Having roots and traditions grounds somebody to the past and help continue something for the future generation.

I mean I think the OP topic is stupid because traditions change and especially with food tweek but when you have a complete breakdown? Its not that good, historically speaking stripping away culture has never been for good other than creating state cohesion.

>>5395314
>1950s americana
>not culture

Boy howdy, you're a fucking retard.

>>5395320
Wow what a weak comeback.
Are we doing this 4th grade style?
>im rubber and youre glue

>>5395330
Its not an ethnic culture with any real roots.

There is no 1950's Americana cuisine and I would also say the idea that even existed consciously is largely manufactured nostalgia.

>>5395329
Listen, I can understand continuing cooking traditions, or continuing special celebrations, but having pride in a culture you were born into and acting superior to others that weren't born into a society where something like that is common is just ridiculous.

>>5395343
Well then, good thing your opinion means absolutely nothing. Are you a cultural anthropologist? Didn't think so.

>>5395343
Im not and ameritard.
But they have some nice thing going on for them.
Your chili dogs and place style hot dogs seems nice.
The whole suoped up cars and milkshakes in the 50's was pretty cool i think.
Cajun food from... no wait thats mostly a black bro thing so ameritards wont even touch it.
Well you have your apple pie.

>>5395349
Its not that I have pride in MY culture and acting superior its literally just not being shiftless.

People can come back to a culture, cane reawaken traditions, hell there are hundreds of colonial era cookbooks out there.

Food traditions is the gateway to understanding the journey of our ancestors and helps us understand why we are where we are today.

>>5395357
>cajun
>black

nope

>>5395352
What type of response it that? I mean it clearly matter to you since you are so defensive :)

>>5395357
Creole, it is not cajun it is Creole

>beans in chili
*unsheathes katana*

>>5395364
*is that?

>>5395364
I thought Creole and Cajun were slightly different?

The thing that pisses me off is
Im a mexibro all rite?
FUCK I DONT KNOW maybe i know a thing or two about mexican food because im standing in the source right?
But whenever i try to be reasonable about something mexican related i get unbelievable amouts of shit so therefore i reply with the exact same amount of shit.

>>5395366
*pushes back black leather trench coat to reveal my rapier*
Good sir, I will put beans in my chili if I so choose. Where this goes from here is up to you.

>>5395361
What? arent we talking about new orleans and such?
Because that place deffinetly filled with white culture.

>>5395373
That got a lot of shit from black slaves and tropical blacks.

>>5395372
Heh, you handle your rapier as badly as you handle your chili.
*slashes your torso in half*
*wipes blood off on trenchcoat (it's waterporoof so it doesn't stain it just drips off)*

>>5395369
Look up Acadian cuisine okay then look at what's called "Cajun" cuisine and finally compare "Cajun" to Creole.

The only difference between the two is "Cajun" can be more provincial/rustic beyond that there is no difference.

Also Cajuns are not black; they are a hodgepodge of Acadian, White Creole, Basque, German, Irish, Scottish, English, Filipino, Indigneous American with some a Creole of a Color ancestry.

>>5395373
Any "French" traditional meal in New Orleans or plantation community started with Black and African chefs. That influence is in literally everything.

>>5395380
>Acadian cuisine
Considering where they were, surely it can't be that flash?
>The only difference between the two is "Cajun" can be more provincial/rustic beyond that there is no difference.
Ah, right. Thanks.

>>5395380
No it isnt.
Stop white washing everything you feel like.
Why you amerifucks are so affraid of other skin tone aside from white?

>>5395388
>presented with facts
>muh racism

>>5395388
I am the resident Creole of color here; I was insinuating Cajun food isn't real and it basically Creoles of color who made most of the dishes And that only in the 1970's were they called Cajun.

Note that I was using quotations on "Cajun" implying its not a valid term.

I appreciate the support though!

>>5395378
BLARG!
with my dying breath I mutter:
>I'll be back, you can never truly kill me. Beans will reign in chili again, my curse is eternal!

>>5395392
Mr Faggot please read this
>>5395397
I wrongly used the name "cajun".
But this fine (im gonna assume) black gentleman took the time to explain.
>gracias morenazo
White fag go and jump from the highest building you know.
And you white deluded friend can go and die in a fire.

>>5395423

Seriously mexibro, just take your meds and have a lie down.

>>5395065
>personally offended
Go fuck yourself op faggot piece of shit

>>5395065
liberal pile of shit fuck off
you have no style, no class, even no culture
prepare to be entirely forgotten faggot

>>5395109
>>5395109
>>Being proud of something completely beyond your control that you contributed absolutely nothing towards

what the jew said niggers

>>5395065
"Fusion" food or whatever you wanna call it is awesome. I like traditional food too, but Fuck purists who can't have it any other way.

>Tandoori chicken pizza
>Mexican burgers
>Chinese food with cheese

You can't stop me

HOW DARE YOU CULTURAL IMPERIALIST GRINGOS STEAL OUR QUINOA AND ACAI BERRIES!!!! WE WILL INVADE YOUR CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS AND SEIZE THEM IN THE NAME OF AZTLAN!

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHAUEHUEAHUEHUEHEUHEAUAEHUE

>>5396786
>aztlan
You just prove how ignorant you are murriturd.

Meh. My only horse in this race is that it bugs me how some people don't understand that a word can mean different things in different places. If you put beans in chili but Texans consider chili to just be the meat and chili peppers, calling a version with beans added "chili with beans" or whatever, then there's no need to get mad and try to insist to them that NO, it IS chili!!! It IS, it IS, IT IS!!! Same thing goes the other way round, if you're Texan and consider chili to not include beans, then telling someone who makes a chili pepper and meat and bean stew and calls it chili that NO, it's NOT CHILI!!! Because CHILI DOESN'T HAVE BEANS!!!! is equally pointless. It doesn't fucking matter, you both have different terms for the same thing and that's fine.

>>5395065
>how terrible of a person are you that you need to cling to the accomplishments of others who had no relation to you?
How ignorant do you have to be to discount generations of food wisdom passed on as tradition?

Blind adherence to tradition can stifle, but it also allows uninspired cooks (the vast majority) to turn out good food, because good stuff generally stands the test of time. Trends come and go. People will be still eating croissants and doughnuts long after the lines for cronuts disappear. There's a good chance a generation from now no one will even know what a fucking cronut is.

>>5397316
I think most Texans get this, we even call it chili with beans. The whole no beans in chili is directly tied to the World Chili Cook-off in Terlingua, they have a rule that you can't have filler in your chili. The only ones who parrot the authentic Texas chili has no beans are trolls or people that can't read.

>crushing weetbix
>squeezing lemon juice onto fish pre-tasting
>ADHD child sugared "baked beans"
>intuitively seasoning/saucing food of unfamiliar cultures in general - e.g. ketchup and mayo in your fucking Kebab, S&P in your fucking Pho, ranch on your fucking Chili, yoghurt on your fucking Fettucine, anything white people have hugely overused on your non-white Dish

you don't need permission from me to eat w/e and however the fuck you wish, but then I don't need your permission to hold my opinions either.

I like your style op. Many of my people came from , um from The UK, or the continent. Safe to say, they weren't on they mayflower. I doubt any landed at plymouth rock or were cousins of virginia dare. a hop, skip and a jump ahead of the sheriff is closer to fact. certain things I like to cook (or brew-- shush) I am southeast,US, but except for,well, hog jowls in hoppin john, I very seldomn eat cured pig cheeks (is pretty good though) . I like collards, but now make it with (can't believe I'm saying this) olive oil,balsamic and jalapenos .history is nice, but don't get stuck in the past.What happened to Afro or black people was despicable. generations. still, the best cooks, and families, can change. times change, so should you. if you ever hear yourself saying "well, back in the day" you might wanna be quite. just a thought.