/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Mad hippies gonna mad

>>4858265
explain

>>4858259
>find a way to increase crop output and feed the masses
>make crops heartier and more resistant to disease and pests
>huurrrrrrrr evil corporation!!!

>>4858267

Corporation bootlickers who think companies can do no wrong, pay them no mind. Being a contrarion is spreading like wildfire. It's kind of sad, especially in times like this.

>>4858270
Hippies want the poor to starve. When is the last time you saw one of those dirty cocksuckers donating to the needy?

OP, DOW didn't create agent orange. They were one of several contractors who were ordered to manufacture it by the US government during Vietnam. The Gov't designed it, DOW was a contractor who made it.

>>4858272
Dude, Im the 99% too, brah

>>4858259
>being this mad
>being this /pol/

>>4858272

"Corporate bootlicker" here. We don't harbor any such delusion. We KNOW that companies can and will do bad things. As bad as that is, it's better than the alternative. It's the lesser of two evils.

>>4858270
They're doing it simply for profit increases. They're far removed from the aim of Norman Borlaug, who actually sought to improve nutritional quality of grains.

>>4858270
>>find a way to increase crop output and feed the masses
The West already produces more than it uses. Unless you want to destroy the economies of developing countries by flooding them with free food, there is no use for GMOs.

>>4858277

Don't forget about how they're doing it for you, the customer, who constantly demands cheaper products.

Do you buy your produce and groceries at a supermarket or do you insist on FRESH straight from the source? Do you buy meat at the supermarket or do you hunt, raise your own, or insist on free-range from quality ranchers? If you are one of the former, then you're just as much part of the problem as big ag is.

>>4858280
That's right, stay down.

>>4858282
>but muh "feeding the poor" agenda
>muh "we're going to end world hunger with GMOs"

>>4858259
mubaraq hossein ubamma won the "nobel peace prize" too... but i highly doubt that... I am almost certain he got his out of a cereal box. I'd just like to know what cereal so I can get mine too. also, that liar of a president supports and backs monsanto as well. what a fucking joke!!

>>4858272
>>4858273

Each of these posts shows opposing viewpoints. Tell me, which sounds more legitimate?

>>4858282
What a retarded post

Monsanto, having successfully patented life forms created by basically mixing and matching existing life forms, have set a precedent that the future will indeed have fabricants eventually.

>>4858284
>you're just as much part of the problem as big ag is.

But anon, there is no way to qualify how much you are contributing to the problem, and even if there were, corporations would probably be far more responsible considering that they are responding to a desire with chosen action.

>>4858284
I am poor and live in houses where I'm not allowed to till and grow things, I have no truck to haul in soil, only a bike and my back, get fucked.

>>4858259
>In foodie terms, that is like a commercial blockbuster winning best picture rather than an independent, artsy film.

If this isn't retarded propaganda, I don't know what is.

>>4858284
I'm a Homegrowmen. Store bought pleb race is jelly of my mad skillz and fresh produce.

>>4858309

They're both expressed pretty stupidly.

>>4858384
Level 1: Grow sprouts in a jar
Level 5: Growing herbs on a window sill
Level 8: Growing regular vegetables in containers on a balcony or where ever you can.
Level 10: Growing in raised beds or open ground.

There's never an excuse that you can't start gardening something right now.

>>4858313
I like that girl on the very right. And those are cool containers.

>>4858400
munsnto is spraying stuff in the air and it gets to the plants that you grow. also, the pests are stronger than ever before and are killing home grown plants. munsanto is really ruining the world..

>>4858309
>Tell me, which sounds more legitimate?

The one about bootlickers. Because the one about hippies is all ignorance. There's a local place for the needy that takes volunteers and almost all of them are straight up hippies.

>>4858403
That's "Doona Bae" from Cloud Atlas.

>>4858400
>There's never an excuse that you can't start gardening something right now
How about I pay poor immigrants to do my manual work?

>>4858403
saying "thats the hottest asian girl i ever saw" is like saying "thats the tastiest water i ever drank"

>>4858407
>munsnto is spraying stuff in the air and it gets to the plants that you grow.

That isn't true.

>also, the pests are stronger than ever before and are killing home grown plants.

That is only true for the pests attacking GMO crops. Also, those "pests" happen to be what they call "weeds" and I actually eat most of those "weeds" because they are edible greens that taste better than store bought greens.

>munsanto is really ruining the world..

That is true.

>>4858410
Why even reply when that has nothing to do with the subject?

>>4858414
i used to grow tomatoes 10 years ago when i lived with my parents. i dont even like tomatoes i just did it because i wanted to see if i could grow plants. 10 years later, parents are trying to grow tomatoes outside and the backyard is so hot, theres these pests and they wont respond to any of the fungicides or ortho bug killers. also, i dont want to kill the bees either. theres reports in the area of the munsanto people spraying shit to combat the bugs but really they are just using that stuff like mouthwash and killing the crops and making the bugs stronger.

>>4858423
That's some pretty retarded shit you are spewing. It is obvious you are a Monsanto shill trying to defame legitimate people.

If you want to prevent pests in your garden you need to stop using chemicals and instead learn about companion planting, beneficial insects, and how to attract beneficial insects. Learn how to water properly, test your soil properly, and how to fix an unbalanced soil. All of these things help prevent a sickly plant which in turn prevents predation of the plant by pests, as well as prevents fungal and viral infections.

Plants infested with pests and disease are a sure sign you are doing it wrong.

Did you know that monsanto is run by the Illuminati?

>>4858315
You are the customers, you are the entire problem. If there is no demand, no such company would exist. Unless you buy into the "supply-driven" economy bullshit.

>>4858432
i dont like munsanto and im not a shill. i know about beneficial plants and all that. i made sure the soil beds had the right pH, tested that on several occasions, had marigolds and butterfly grass next to the plants to encourage lady bugs to come in and eat them, i even bought a big box of ladybugs and released them on the tomato plants, kept the sol moist, etc. theres a problem with the environment and i'm sure i know why and whos responsible.

>>4858432
>It is obvious you are a Monsanto shill trying to defame legitimate people.

What makes you think that? He clearly stated that pesticides were being overused, killing crops, and making bugs stronger.

>>4858446
>munsnto is spraying stuff in the air and it gets to the plants that you grow.
> theres reports in the area of the munsanto people spraying shit to combat the bugs but really they are just using that stuff like mouthwash and killing the crops and making the bugs stronger.

>munsnto

That's not happening.

>>4858450
>theres a problem with the environment and i'm sure i know why and whos responsible.
Mole people?

>>4858450
You are a shill.

There is nothing wrong with the environment. You'd display complete ignorance for correct gardening and are actually stating exactly why your imaginary crops failed.

>>4858440

This. If people choose products based on price and convenience then big surprise: corporations will use their resources to push price and convenience at the expense of everything else (taste, health, environment, etc.).

If people choose purchases based on quality and responsibility then the corporate world will respond in kind.

For example:

An astute customer who cares about the quality of his produce as well as the environmental aspects will buy his produce in-season, and will select that produce based on its quality. He will reject factory-farmed produce because it tastes worse than fresh, local, in-season produce. Thus he supports people who farm properly.

On the other hand, people who want to buy tomatoes in December end up supporting a highly polluting and environmentally damaging industry. In order for you to buy that tomato in a supermarket in December it was either grown using artificial means or it was shipped in from the other side of the world on a series of smoke-belching ships and trucks.

>>4858457
this is seperate but i remember in the 90s, with the outbreak of the mediterranean fruit fly, helicopsters used to fly in V formations at 9-10pm at night low to the ground and spray shit all over the city to get rid of them. what makes you think that isn't going on today? newspapers have reported this going on and im certain munsnto is behind it. also looky looky I found reports of the 90s helicopter sprayers when they used to fly over my home: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/keyword/mediterranean-fruit-flies/featured/3

>>4858310

there are some fucking profoundly stupid people on this board. That post got right up in my nuts.

>>4858440
>>4858469
I agree with your sentiments, but I personally think more people should grow at least a portion of their food. Eating seasonally is a big thing too, if you don't at least have a small greenhouse to grow your own out-of-season crops.

>>4858472
That was APHIS, not Monsanto and those are an invasive species.

>>4858310
>>4858475
He's right though. The USA has already destroyed foreign economies in Africa and Mexico when they imported corn that was cheaper than what was being sold in those regions. The local farmers could not support their farms because no one would buy their more expensive corn. After most farms went bankrupt and stopped farming the US pulled out their cheap corn. Without the farming structure in place rioting began because people were without food (Tortilla Riots).

It was a huge fucking mess.

>>4858482
but what makes you think the latter cant get in helicopters or low flying aircraft and spray stuff in the air? the bees are dying due to fungicides. we need the bees. theres also this certain little company that is selling tons and tons of fungicides and pesticides and nearly has a lockup on the market... http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/3151/20130725/common-agricultural-fungicide-linked-poor-imjmunity-honey-bees-usda-study.htm

>>4858476

>4858469 here. I agree completely. Growing your own produce, hunting your own meat, catching your own fish, etc, is the best possible option.

But in the context of economics, the point is to make the appropriate purchase decisions.

>>4858494
>if COULD happen
>muh bees

That has nothing at all to do with the fact is has not happened and is not happening. Let's talk about the shit they ARE doing right now.

>>4858472

Why would Monsanto give away a product? Why would Monsanto pay to rent helicopters? Monsanto is a business. They don't spray anything at all, they sell seeds and they sell agricultural chemicals. They certainly don't give away anything.

>>4858501
We need the bees (part 9). http://www.honeycolony.com/article/what-is-monsanto-doing-to-our-bees/

>>4858502
this was the 90s. government subsidies, testing products to sell and make astronomical profits in the future (today). they are apart of many of those smaller companies that sell fungicides and pesticides

>>4858504
See, you are trying to derail the conversation.

No we do not need the honey bees. I know this, and I have 3 hives of my own. We only need the native pollinating bees, flies, and wasps.

Now, back to the topic of you being a shill, lying about having a garden 10 years ago, and trying to tinfoil us by saying Monsanto is spraying "something" into the air.

>>4858504

>>4858517
>honey bees don't pollinate

>>4858517
Can you show us your bees? I like them alot. Yes, I did have a garden at one point I don't know why thats so hard for you to believe. I really don't know why you think I'm a shill. I have no vested interest in them or their products but they are destroying the world with their shit food and products on the basis of them trying to 'help' the environment.

>>4858521

Of course they do. They're just not the only pollinators out there. And local insects are more important than bees anyway. Did you know that honeybees aren't even native to the Americas? Honeybees are one out of a great many species of bees, to say nothing of other pollinating insects (wasps, butterflies, moths, flies, etc)

>>4858280
>anyone who tries to subvert pernicious greed and corrupting influences is a worse evil!
Americans.

>>4858521
I never said that. Hell, at the places I worked at we used bumble bees for pollination in the greenhouses; not honey bees.

>>4858527
>Can you show us your bees?

pic related, from a few months ago

>I really don't know why you think I'm a shill.

Because you were using terminology in both a tinfoil hat way and completely incorrectly. Both smack of shill/troll.

Train by day, Joe Rogan by night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3835etUlO8 1:48 tune in you guys...

>>4858540
Aww look at them buzzin around makin honey :3

>>4858542
>pro-GMO crap

*yawn* Seems they bought stock in it.

>>4858545
When you come within 15 feet of the hives you can smell the honey very strongly.

>>4858540
very nice! theres a blue flower that grows up in the mountains I think its called "cianophus" but I don't know the spelling... I've been trying to find it I wanted to grow that next to the tomatoes to help them out but alas nothing... maybe you know what I'm referring to? I think its native to southern california. also, how much honeycombs do the bees leave for you? I'm thinking of building a bee block this winter to help the little critters out. and like i said before, I'm not a shill and have no vested interest in them. I'm just very worried and concerned about what is going on in the world today.

>>4858546
Joe Rogan and the Deathsquad boys HATE Monsanto.

>>4858548
"Ceanothus", but there's tons of types. I suggest you look at a proper chart like this one:

http://farmtopreschool.org/pdf/2.3_CompanionPlanting_Chart.pdf

>how much honeycombs do the bees leave for you?

That varies from season to season.

>>4858556
But they love GMOs and wrongfully think those will save the world and end world hunger.

>>4858538

You guys mean well, you just don't understand that the regulations you want in place do more harm than good.

You really ought to focus on educating the consumer rather than weighing down the industry with yet more legislation. Corporations should have nothing to do with the government, and likewise the government has no business making business decisions.

The real issue here is people having harmful expectations, like being able to buy whatever produce they want any time of the year, and choosing convenience and price over quality and responsibility. You cannot force responsibility to happen, but you can educate the public.

>>4858440
>You are the customers, you are the entire problem. If there is no demand, no such company would exist.

But Monsanto is not some automatic response. It is composed of people that think and make decisions. Obviously they make these decisions based on a pretty will-known formula, but they are still decisions. You're equating the responsibility of customers to the responsibility of the people actually taking action and doing terrible things, and you can't quantify responsibility, so basically you're saying jack shit.

>>4858563
>"Ceanothus"
YESSSS!!! Thats the one!! I'm going to find seeds and research these guys and grow them this upcoming spring! I couldn't find the name for the longest time glad there is someone who knew the name! I remember the forest workers purposely planted these things next to the bee boxes and they swarmed them like crazy my day has been made!!

>>4858573
That is defeatism.

I alone will change the world. Through my actions and non-action I will change everything. Everyone has that power, when you bring people together of like mind and like action things get done. All it takes is the proper attitude and the will to start doing it.

>>4858568
No one said anything about regulations.

>You really ought to focus on educating the consumer
But no doubt you oppose modest labeling requirements. _Now_ we're talking about regulations.

>but you can educate the public
And get called a small lexicon of names by craven Americans.

Unlike a good portion of those in opposition to Monsanto's influence, I'm not actually opposed to genetic modification, only businesses that are up to their necks in filthy practices.

>>4858573
Drug dealers should be held accountable for their actions, but as long as there's a demand there will always be a product and people willing to provide it.

The same goes with shitty corporations. You think the chinkshit you purchase would be considered acceptable by other generations? Half these companies would go under instantly in a different era, but they thrive thanks to the current rather shitty culture. Putting Monsanto under would be beheading the Hydra, you gotta starve that fucker instead.

>>4858563
Joe Rogan and Deathsquad have gone on record many many times opposing GMOs and anything related to them. Maybe you're confusing the guests with the Deathsquad people?

>>4858581
When you select a flower for honeybee use you need to research the flower to determine if honeybees can actually use them. The tongue of a honeybee is a certain length and they only visit flowers that their tongue can harvest properly.

>>4858598
You didn't actually listen to the youtube here >>4858542 did you? People people speaking were pro-GMO speaking.

>>4858573

They wouldn't be making those decisions if there wasn't a market for it. Nobody is going to pay people to develop a GMO product, pesticide, or herbicide that there is no market (demand) for.

Look at it this way: We all know that violent crime is a horrible thing. So we make assault, murder, kidnapping, and so on illegal. But that doesn't prevent those things from happening. We've decided that "drugs" are bad so we make those illegal as well...but despite the law, they still get manufactured and sold. In other words, the law doesn't really do much, except cost the taxpayer money. However, if the DEMAND doesn't exist then nobody will service that demand.

For example, digital cameras killed the concept of film. Nobody buys film anymore, suddenly the companies who made it are closing factories if not going out of business entirely. The mighty Kodak--who was accused of all sorts of environmental problems I might add--filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy not that long ago. You think those guys with billions of $$$ and all sorts of other resources weren't making "decisions" to stay in business? They could do nothing against the change in the public's desire for a different format.

Likewise if the public stops demanding products that depend on Monsanto they will shrivel up and die the same way.

>>4858597
>muh free market, muh deregulation
>but still being a drug prohibitionist

>>4858610
You sure did get a lot of labels out of two very short paragraphs.

>drug prohibitionists
One being completely wrong.

>>4858605
Same with the music industry and its physical media sales plummet when the digital age/information age got in full swing.

Now, how do we trigger a similar crash with food GMOs and Monsanto?

>>4858611
i'm on the verge of quitting drinking since its an absolute mother fucker to find a beer that doesn't have GMO stuff in it: http://foodbabe.com/2013/07/17/the-shocking-ingredients-in-beer/#more-13939 Almost all the stores sell the 'same' beers (nearly exclusively the ones listed in that story) not surprisingly, I noticed I get terrible hangovers when I was drinking the stuff with GMOs in it but I can finish a 12 pack of IPA local craft stuff and not get the hangovers. Also, I get a similar type of hangover when I was eating Stouffers food from the store and they use GMOs too. That seems to be the underlying problem of the 'sickness' and I now know my body hates that stuff.

>>4858613
You did say 'Drug dealers should be held accountable for their actions'.

>>4858619
You'll need to brew your own beer to do that. The yeast itself is GMO now.

However, that has nothing at all to do with your hangovers. You need to eat light snacks and drink water while you drink alcohol in order to prevent hangovers, headaches, etc. Hydration and electrolytes are key.

>>4858629
>>4858619
Oh, and Redstar isn't GMO yeast, fyi.

>>4858629
And B vitamins.

>>4858621
Because it is illegal, not because the specific action of selling a particular drug is immoral.

And because dealers currently prey on consumers, damage communities, and fund other illegal activities. This is why the law must be enforced until it is abolished and a plan for regulation is implemented.

>>4858629
I read some stories that the beers without GMOs are proven not to cause hangovers. I was drinking Blue Moon which I noticed was bought up by Miller Coors and they use GMO wheat. I used to be able to drink a 12 pack unscathed every night and wouldn't get a hangover. I did get the worst hangovers with Blue Moon, Pabst, and Rolling Rock. When I drank the 12 packs from non GMO companies like Stone or Sierra Nevada, no hangover whatsoever. When I was younger, yeah I agree with the water and snacks but I found my limit when I got older I know its not dehydration or the food... its what they are putting inside of the beer.

>>4858644
You are so delusional, it's scary.

>>4858650
I'm just concerned, mate.

>company kills of 95%+ of the worlds bee population
>company then wins Nobel Peace Prize

Thanks, Obama.

>>4858605

I'm fully aware of this, but to say "the customer is as responsible as Monsanto" isn't a verifiable claim and amounts to pure opinion.

>>4858611
>Now, how do we trigger a similar crash with food GMOs and Monsanto?

You buy products based on quality and you reject products that sacrifice that in favor of other things, like price and convenience. And hopefully you educate other consumers to do the same.

The problem is that people are lazy, have real-world budgetary concerns, and many people honestly don't care about quality.

Alas, this is going to be difficult. It's really the opposite of your example with the music business. Today's MP3 downloads played on your Ipod or smartphone are a lot like big-ag food products: they're worse quality, but cheaper and more accessible. An MP3 you can download on your phone with a press of a button is a lot cheaper and easier to get than having to visit a physical store to buy a record or CD which you then play on your expensive HiFi at home. The record or CD has better sound quality, and is lacking in dubious legal restrictions on how/where you can play it or share it with your buddies. It's not locked into your Itunes--you're free to sell it or trade it or give it away. But convenience and price wins out and most people choose the MP3 these days. It's "good enough" rather than "good as possible".

But the music industry, film cameras, and many other industries are excellent examples of how it's possible for customer demand to shut them down despite their strengths. Other examples are the manufacturer's of pianos at the turn of the century, and horse breeders. The automobile killed the piano industry and the tractor and the auto killed the horse breeders.

>>4858680
I. Hope. He. Fails.

>>4858710
At what?

>>4858681

It's not an opinion at all, it's a very clear fact. If customer demand for Monsanto's products didn't exist then they wouldn't be in business. Any business--from a one-man fruit stand through a giant corporation cannot exist without sales to customers. No demand = no sales = no business.

the problem is that most customers don't care about Monsanto (et. al.'s) dubious business practices, they only care about their cheap fast food.

Chasing after that problem legally is a waste of time that goes nowhere. The drug industry is a perfect example. It's highly illegal all over the world yet it's worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Make marijuana illegal? No problem, we'll just make synthetic...which happens to be much more dangerous than the original.

The demand for "Cheaper" and "convenient" has to cease in favor of quality otherwise Monsanto and similar will continue to exist in one form or another.

>>4858713
his policies, his presidency, his legacy

>>4858718
He's batting 2 out of 3 so far

>>4858720
That little man child throws a tantrum and if he doesnt get his way with votes from the house or senate, he sends in an executive order to get what he wants.

>>4858718
Well he's Basically A Republican in the first two, so your third hope will probably come true as well.

>>4858706
I do the farming thing. The problem with this is I'm not voting with my money. I need to buy non-GMO products to show that I want non-GMO products. In actuality, I don't want store products at all. Now that I think about it, I do vote with my money because I do buy and trade goods with locals that grow/raise their own foods.

>>4858644
I know where u can get cheap beer that doesn't cause hangovers. It's called denatured alcohol and they sell it at the hardware store. Denatured means they take all of the GMOs out of the beer, so it's safe to drink and better for you than other kinds of beer. :)

>>4858284

>Don't forget about how they're doing it for you, the customer, who constantly demands cheaper products.

Wrong, you shill.

They are doing it because it makes them money a ton of money. Take away the profit incentive, they couldn't care if you starved.

If they could make more money by legally killing babies, they would do that too.

Corporations lack a conscious.

>>4858746
You fucking idiot. Denatured alcohol and wood spirits makes people go blind. I have a tip for you... go mix some ammonia and bleach to make your whites their whitest and clean up your house.

>>4858835
You didn't sense the sarcasm in that anons post? He obviously knew it was poisonous and was tell the other anon to poison himself.

>>4858746
This is a deadly troll. Denatured alcohol is alcohol that has been made poisonous with added methanol. Drinking it will destroy your nervous system, make you blind, and kill you.

>>4858838
This isn't /b/.

>>4858873
amen. there are few of us people who care about the environment so we need to stick together.

>>4858873

no, but it'd still me nice if you went ahead and killed yourself.

>>4858824
>>They are doing it because it makes them money a ton of money

Exactly. And where does that money come from? It comes from when people buy Monsanto's GMO crops, or crops raised using Monsanto's insecticides or pesticides. They don't have a magical geinie spitting out hundred dollar bills--their profits come from the consumer, like you or I.

>>Corporations lack a conscious.

Agreed. But laws aren't going to magically give them one. You want to kill the big nasty beast? Stop feeding it. Stop buying produce predicated on decisions of faster, cheaper, more convenient. Instead, buy produce that's raised without their products.

>>4858918

Yes - Ignorant, selfish consumers enable them.
But their primary motive is MONEY.

Laws aren't intended to kill the beast, but they can help restrain the beast.

>>4858965
>but they can help restrain the beast.

While I agree completely with your intentions, it simply doesn't work. See the drug trade as a perfect example. Nearly every nation on earth makes them illegal--often with very high criminal penalties. In many countries you'll go to prison much longer for possessing cocaine than you would if you assaulted someone. In Thailand posession of some drugs gets you the death penalty, yet they have a massive drug problem. We give people drug tests before they can be hired. Yet despite all of this it's still a multi-billion dollar business. Make marijuana illegal? No problem, people just make synthetics that are even more dangerous than the original. The intent is great but the laws don't work.

Scroll up a little and read a few examples: customer preference, however, has a very strong ability to shut down massive industries, which as been historically proven to work, whereas bans and laws quite obviously do not.