/ck/ - Food & Cooking

The image loaded after I was done reading your post and it gave me a laugh.

Anyway, an actual budget would be a nice thing to know. In dollars or your local currency. Although if it's not US money people are going to have a harder time knowing what your funny money buys in your obscure little country.

>>4507270
Wat do? How about actually browsing /ck/ a little? There's at least one bad-ass knife thread in the first few pages, and another where they're trying to put an infograph together later in the board.

tl;dr: Lurk moar, faggot.

>>4507275

Not op, but the SirSpice infographic has 404'd, and it was pretty incomplete anyway. The other thread is just some people talking about the merits of shiro ko vs ao ko and $300 whetstones, I doubt that's going to be much help.

tl;dr go to /b/ if you want to flame and rage at people for no reason

>>4507276
Well, my obscure little country does happen to be the U.S., but I'm almost afraid to mention a budget because I don't know what's realistic. I only have ~$200 disposable cash on hand right this second, but I'm fine with either putting off the purchase or starting off with just one of 2 knives and building from there if all that will buy is utter junk, I figured my choice of image would get a chuckle or two. lol

>>4507305

I hate to sound like a shill but Chef Knives to Go has a well chosen selection of products for most budgets, you might want to have a look there. Few things will be bad, but some may be wrong for your purposes. I'd spend around $100 (more if you like) on the chef knife and another $100 on sharpening stuff, and then if you want to add more later, you can do that.

I've got a tojiro DP as my main knife but I've also used shun, wusthof classic, misono swedish steel, misono UX-10, some antique sabatier au carbone, and modern sabatier stainless, and they're all good. Just budget and personal preference. You can google these names for more info. CkTG won't have all of those, for antique sabatier you can go to thebestthings.com

>>4507283
Thanks for your response. I'm not even gonna respond to that other guy directly myself, but for the record, I did look down through the list of threads but didn't see anything applicable. I actually decided to post here because I've lurked quite a bit and from what I've read it sounded like this would be a great source of expertise and opinions for me to learn from and take into consideration. Also, at this point I'm not looking so much for "bad-ass" as I am for "serviceable". Wow, $300 whetstones... I may be in for some sticker shock even shooting at "serviceable". Heh

>>4507312
Thanks, I'll go check them out. I did not realize that proper sharpening stuff was as expensive as it apparently is. The mention of a $300 whetstone above really surprised me. I guess I'll have to raise my level of knowledge on sharpening and sharpening implements above "bare bones basic" as well. Appreciate the info!

>>4507325

What do you mean by "serviceable"? From your first post you imply that dullness and abuse are the problems, which I guess can be fixed by having a personal knife (not familiar with restaurant kitchen culture), and by sharpening it yourself. For that you can just get a $30 victorinox and a couple of cheap stones or diamond sharpeners.

Do you want better steel or do you just want a personal knife and a means of keeping it in basic but not awesome shape.

>>4507331
Yeah, I'd like a personal set of knives and a means of keeping it in reasonably good shape and was looking for pointers. I'd also love any recommendations on any resources I could use to expand on my very basic knowledge of knives in general. I've already learned that apparently there's a bit more to sharpening than I was aware by finding out about the existence of $300 whetstones.

>>4507362

you definitely do NOT need a 300$ whetstone. Get a 8'' Victorinox Chef's knife and a decent 30-40$ dual grit whetstone from a toolshop and you're all set. even a cheap knife will stay sharp a good length of time if you only cut on a plastic or wooden board and don't use the edge to scrape your cut stuff off the board. I use a super cheap IKEA knife (with the dual tone all plastic handle) and it can be brought to razor sharpness. Plenty of vids on youtube on proper sharpening techniques.

For your first knife, if you're in a real budget get a victorinox chefs knife, and a decent steel. The Idahone fine from CKtG is supposed to be pretty damn good. The vic will need steeling frequently, but should get pretty sharp along with the steeling, as long as you know how to steel.

If you want to spend a little more, have a look at the Fujiwara range, on CKtG and JCK. You might as well get it from CKtG as you're in the US.

Really pushing your budget is the Gesshin Kagero from Japaneseknifeimports (JKI), coming at 230$ for a 240mm. You want a 240mm for pro usage, maybe even a 270mm. I don't know what you use now.

Consider sharpening; you might not need it to start, depending on what knife you get. You can get a 800/6000 king stone for like 40$ which will be adequate for the entry level knives we're talking about.

Consider also just how safe a knife will be where you work. I have to watch mine pretty damn closely to stop some knucklehead picking it up and cutting some apple matchsticks straight on the metal fucking counter. That's not a big deal, but you don't want a knife to go walking.

First time I get to use this.

>>4507378
Any reason you advise the handmade misono over the sweden?

>>4507380
I mostly added the Misono Handmade in there because it's comparatively affordable. The Swedish Steel series knives are carbon steel (rather then stainless steel). I own and enjoy carbon steel knives, but I figure most people don't want the hassle of taking care of a knife that will discolor and rust if left wet.

If someone doesn't mind taking care of carbon knives, the Swedish Steel Series would be an excellent choice.

>>4507283
You can get a King 1000/6000 Combination Grit Waterstone for around $30 on Amazon. You can get the larger version for around $60, and either should suffice for now.

>>4507384
If I may offer some changes I'd make to the info.

I'd scrap the 'willing to take care'. I'd simply say not to dishwash it, and to use poly or wood.

I'd include the Fujiwara FKM. I see it recommended more frequently now than the DP, and its in the same price range. Take out the Shun too, or atleast make a point of the issues with them.

Personally I'd like to see some 240mms on there, and some carbon too, but I understand why you've left the carbon off. Not too sure why you only recommend 8 inch/210mm though?

>>4507411

I agree about the lengths

what's your issue with shuns specifically? they're unfashionable around here due to being insufficiently obscure but they are good knives made of good steel with good designs as long as you avoid the single bevel models (yanagi, etc). some people take issue with the price but that's about the only legit complaint.

>>4507370
Thank you, very useful info!

Just get a knife that at least has a spine that goes along the handle. Forged are more expensive than pressed, but stay sharper longer. Get a good steel as well.

>>4507377
Thanks for your help! I'd considered the blade length as a buying decision but didn't know the pros/cons of longer vs. shorter blades. Having read ahead of your post a bit, it sounds like some people just aren't comfortable with a larger knife. I seem to gravitate toward the lager knives and I haven't yet read anything that sounds like going for a 10" (270mm) would be a bad decision for me, so I'm inclined to go in that direction. I think I know how to steel, but I'll have a look on youtube to see if I'm doing anything wrong. Hopefully troll videos would be fairly easy to spot. I have a lot of questions, but I'm trying to keep from every post I add to this thread becoming tl;dr material, However...

I see CKIG is popular and often recommended, is it inadvisable to buy from ebay to save a few bucks? I'm not talking about buying used, that seems like it would be a really bad idea although I'm not 100% sure why I feel so strongly about that.

I've used Wusthof knives in the past and liked them and I saw some very affordable stuff in the Wusthof Pro line, any opinions? For some reason I feel this attraction to German knives, Maybe 'cause I'm from Austria originally, hehe. My grandmother was also very fond of Solingen steel when I was a kid and maybe that's stuck with me.

Sharpening... I was under the impression that a steel only really hones and helps to maintain an edge but doesn't truly sharpen. Is that a misconception I've picked up?

Sorry about my inability to keep it short and sweet, FWIW I really do appreciate your and everyone else's replies! Well, except for that first guy...lol

>>4507378
Awesome, did you see me coming? Saved for future reference... any chance on you posting the part 2 about sharpening? I'd be very interested. Thanks!

>>4507390
Nice, I'll go check that out. As a bonus, having an easy to use (read: large enough to be comfortable to use for an extended period) sharpener gives me a great idea for next mother's day. A free sharpening of her kitchen knives courtesy yours truly. I swear that woman doesn't have a single knife in her kitchen that's sharper than your average bowling ball.

Oh, I just remembered something else I've been wondering about. How important is having an NSF certification/approval, whatever it's technically called, on knives for professional use? Is use of non NSF grounds for a health and safety inspector subtracting points?

>>4507698

what a honing steel does is to right a bent-over edge of a kitchen knife with a relatively soft or very high angle edge, it does not really take any material away. It is good for touching up an already existent but bent edge, but it will do nothing to actually produce a correct grind. For that you need a whetstone.

I would not squander money on a honing steel, I expect you will find one in every kitchen you work in and any old crap will do (I occasionally use the spine of another knife for a honing steel). A good whetstone is a lot more useful.

>>4507727
Ignore all of these niggers telling you to get fancy shit. Sirspice has it right. Right now all you need is a 10 inch victorinox fibro (30-35 bucks) an ok paring knife (victorinox is cheap and good) and possibly a bread knife. You dont need whetstones, oils or any of that shit, most kitchens have a steel in them, and you ought to get one for home as well. Its all you need for an entry level knife. Then in 3-6 months when you have money saved and want to commit to it, but a real knife set.
and when you do that, find the nearest culinary school to you. Then find the nearest pawnshop to the school and get a 2000 dollar knife set for like 120


>i did that 3 years ago when I started my professional cooking career and never looked back

>>4507411
>I'd include the Fujiwara FKM.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. I'll definitely include it.

>Take out the Shun too, or atleast make a point of the issues with them.
I wanted to include at least one knife that you could commonly find at a Williams Sonoma or a Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I'm not a fan of them, but I already have people giving me shit for not including Globals.

>Not too sure why you only recommend 8 inch/210mm though?
I only listed the 8" versions as a point of comparison. I specifically state "Choose the longest chef knife you can comfortably use", and recommend a length "between 8in (210mm) to 10in (240mm)". I use a 240mm knife and a 150mm nakiri most often. I've heard that some line cooks don't have room for a 10" knife on the prep line.

>>4507330
$300 whetstones are a scam. Get a cheap one and replace it when it's smooth.

>>4507781

no. but they are absolutely unnecessary for kitchen use. for a pro sharpener, a razor guy, or a professional sword polisher, it's appropriate (although for swords, natural stones are pretty much mandatory and $300 is nothing for that kind of thing)