/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Hey FF, I am new to baking and attempted this, not adding in any raisins or currants:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/oatmeal-toasting-and-sandwich-bread-recipe

It's still somewhat crumbly, to the point that I can't cut it less than an inch thick. I made it by hand, so no mixer. I'm guessing I either used a bit too much flour on the surface while kneading for 10 minutes, or that my kneading technique just isn't good. Thoughts?

>>4062706
Make some raisin bread, FF. My local Chinese place has been skimping on the raisins.

>>4062706

That looks really lightly colored for rye.

>>4062724

Probably too much fat and not enough gluten. Either spend more time working the dough by hand, or cut back a bit on the fat. Is it also super dense?

>>4062729

I made raisin bread last weekend! Sadly, I didn't take any pictures because it was just too damn ugly

>>4062731
It's only 20% rye and 40% whole wheat. 60% of the total flour being whole wheat is uncharacteristic of me. I tend to stick to 20% or less.

YOUR BREAD SUCKS.

>>4062778

Yes, fairly dense. I used the amount of butter specified, but used Crisco when it called for a light greasing (used as little as possible, but oh well). Maybe that's it then.

>>4062787
>>4062778

Oh, and thank you. I'll try cutting down next time.

>>4062783
THAT'S HIS WIFE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

>>4062783

Thanks for the constructive criticism. The intelligence with which you voiced your concerns tells me that it's a comment worth listening to.

>>4062787
>>4062791

Sandwich bread always threw me until recent years. To be honest, I cut the fat out of all of my sandwich loaves, and suddenly they became these big, billowy, consistent, beautiful loaves that are a pleasure to make into sandwiches. Maybe try it completely fat-free?

>>4062831

Will do.

>>4062706
I miss bread so much...
Fuck gluten intolerances

Came out pretty nice. Exact same dough between the three loaves. Just goes to show how big of a difference post-mixing conditions make in the final loaf.

>>4062890

Are you actually gluten intolerant or just wheat intolerant? Only something like 2% of the US population actually has Coeliac's Disease, the rest who experience adverse effects after eating bread are actually just wheat intolerant.

>>4062923
Any recommendations for something like a burger bun?

Let me say I haven't been in previous threads but I hear you're the authority on breads.

How much kneading is too much kneading? Any experience with paratha?

>>4062923
that trip!
also please explain the different conditions.

>>4062936

Try: 100% flour (10% rye, 90% bread), 50% water, 15% buttermilk, 10% egg yolk, 3% salt, 0.4% yeast. Brush with egg wash before baking.

>>4062944

The artisan loaf was proofed in a banneton, then baked at 550F with steam for the first 2 minutes, dropped to 475F until finished. The two sandwich loaves were proofed in a loaf pan that was greased, then baked at 400F until done.

>>4062957
Thank ya kindly.

Got any baguette pictures?

>>4063091

Sorry, friend. No baguette photos. It's very rare that I make baguettes. I suppose the beauty and the downfall of the baguette is that its shape and nature makes it wonderfully short-lived. Therefore, it's hard to justify doing all that work at home when enjoying them over multiple days just isn't feasible. For the most part, I bake loaves. They just last longer.

I'm not too much a fan of rye. Do you have a recipe for a pretty standard sourdough bread? The place I used to work had San Fran Sourdough but I wouldn't be able to get that starter... But I want to make my own starter and try to make something similar.

That's gonna come out full of holes, OP. I can tell just from looking at it.

>>4062706
do you use a recipe for these or just a ratio of flour to water? I have a bag of rye flour that I was looking to use up. Was thinking maybe 1/3 rye 2/3 white flour.

>>4063686

I think many people conflate the flavor of rye with the flavor of caraway seed. The deli rye that is available here in the US is always a rye/caraway loaf. In reality, rye has a very nice, balanced whole wheat flavor.

As to the sourdough starter, do you have much experience baking bread without it? It's a fairly advanced step in bread baking, so it's good to get the fundamentals down first.

>>4063695

That's a negative. Because of the whole wheat content, it came out light, but consistent.

Lately I've been baking 100% rye sourdoughs because they require less general fuss. Or at least, less work intensive fuss.

It's surprising how much the flavor changes in a bread like this over the course of a day or two. All the flavors sort of mingle and balance, and the character of the rye comes out more. If you try to eat it immediately, it's all weird, somehow.

Picture not mine, but it could be, if I bought a damn pullman pan.

>>4063703

I use baker's percentages. They are weight ratios. Infinitely scalable, which makes them nice when you have a limiting ingredient and want to use all of it.

>>4063707
>rye
>whole wheat flavor

miruku.jpg

>>4063709

Looks delicious!

So is there a website that has all of the baker's percentages, cooking temperatures, etc.?

>>4063718
Those things depend on the recipe, so no.

>>4063727
wow, are you really this stupid?

>>4063776
No, but I'm pretty sure you're gay.

FF, Do you have a bakers oven w steam. 550F is pretty damn hot for a conventional oven.

Also Rye guy - any tips for high rye % loaves? a recipe would be appreciated :)

>>4063776
>>4063788

I'm the gayest stupidest guy in the thread. There, problem solved.

>>4064097

I have a normal home oven. It is true that it is the first oven I can get up to 550F, or that has convection (which raises effective temp to 575F), but it's not a fancy model by any means. For steam, I use a cast iron pan that sits on the floor of the oven for the entirety of the bake cycle (including preheat) and boiling water. Generates at least 20-30 seconds of steam, no problem.

dumb question time:

do you include a pan of boiling water every time you bake bread? and what exactly does the boiling water do for the bread?

>>4064414
I'm pretty sure that keeping water in the oven during baking is meant to keep the outer layers moist and prevent cracking, like when making a custard.

>>4064486
No, it helps create a dark, thick crust with a visible sheen.

In the case of custard, you would actually have it sitting in the bath.

I decided to dust off my old baker unit, do you have any recipe for delicious garlic or onion bread? where you can really feel the garlic / onion taste

>>4063707
I can't say that I do have a ton of experience making sourdough starter. I know it'll take a while. I just used to shape bread for a short time at the bakery I once worked at when I wasn't working FOH. Never got to mix or anything. I just miss that sourdough! I've baked things like Challah and Brioche but never a sourdough. I miss the chewy interior and the crisp crust.

Never been a fan of the caraway seed, but I see what you mean about it being associated with Rye. Maybe I'll give Rye flour a try.

There's all these different recipes for Sourdough and it's just getting confusing and convoluted. Some have milk, others water; some have fat and others don't. It's kind of hard to understand what factors actually matter in getting what I want out of the final product.

We used to sell this cranberry pecan sourdough bread that was out of this world. I want to try and replicate it some day, too.

Found this at the last minute while trying to find a picture of some of their loaves. Not sure if it'd interest you or not.

http://atwaters.biz/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Bread-101-Single-Page2.jpg

Most all of the sourdough breads were my favorites.

>>4064374
Hey FF, Question about water to flour ratios. A few days ago I made some pizza dough that was 3 cups KA white whole wheat, and 0.5 cups rye flour. (we've talked before about my pizza doughs) I added 1.5 cups of water to it but it seemed to form a solid ball in the mixer aka just hanging onto the hook. I added a few spoonfuls of water to try and get it more manageable but it just kept sucking it up into the abyss. I eventually took it out of the mixer and kneaded it by hand on the counter but I had to wet my hands a few times and really work it to get it almost windowpane. I know that whole wheat is supposed to suck up water like there is no tomorrow but do you have any general guides as a starting point for water and whole wheat/rye doughs?


also it made the best crust I've ever had after 3 days in the fridge. When I pulled the cover off to let it warm upon the counter it smelled like whiskey.

Discuss.

>>4064644
my favorite was an instructable where a guy used a toaster oven and a steam cleaner hacked together with copper pipe.

>>4064414
>>4064486
>>4064490

Steam serves two primary purposes. First, it moistens the surface of the crust, which prevents it from prematurely browning before the center cooks. Second, it solubilizes some of the available sugars on the surface of the dough, resulting in a more consistent and smooth brown coloration.

>>4064531

Sourdough starter really just takes a lot of patience. Otherwise, it's not too bad. The problem is that novice bakers don't tend to have much in the way of patience, and so their sourdough loaves frequently turn out less-than-ideal. Try this for a SUPER simple sourdough bread: 100% flour, 70% starter (1:1 hydration), 62% water, and 3.5% salt. Just make sure to let it take its time bulk fermenting until almost doubled, or you'll miss out on a lot of the sour flavor. Thanks for the link.

>>4064637

Start by baking by weight, not by volume. Then give this recipe a shot: 100% flour, 78% water, 2.8% salt, 0.3% yeast. Let the mixer work on the dough until somewhere around windowpane. Bulk retard the dough in the fridge for 48 hours. Portion, proof, and bake.

As to the WW/rye dough issue, it's true, they do often require more water. Truth be told, though, I bake such high hydration loaves (usually 75+%) that things almost never come out underhydrated.

>>4064644

Very cool! I'd love to have steam on demand for my oven, but the cast iron/boiling water combo works pretty well. When I pour 2 cups of water into the pan, it turns into prodigious quantities of steam for about 20 seconds, and evaporates completely during that time frame.

>>4064414
Ex-baker, now pastry chef here. I don't know the specifics, but after working with ovens that have steam injection I know this much: If you steam your bread right when it hits the oven, the crust will come out crispy and flaky. If you forget to steam, it becomes soft and chewy. I also did a steam halfway through as well.