/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>3995661
Why didn't you just stick to the other thread? It was a good troll thread to begin with, this is not necessary.

OH LOOK ANOTHER TIPPING THREAD FULL OF INBOUND ARGUMENTS AND FALSE OPINIONS

I'm pretty sure there's already a tipping thread somewhere in the first 3 pages.

>>3995664
>>3995667
Did not want to hijack that thread.I felt like the conversation was too far off topic as it was. I just do not want to see some poor eurofriend chased down the street by an angry gay waiter.

Let's have 2 tipping threads on page one

>>3995681
Implying that is a rare situation.

A dollar per drink does not cut it when you are ordering 12 dollar Manhattans BTW.
You should tip between two and three bucks per cocktail.

>>3996471
>12 dollar Manhattans + 3 dollar tip

>>3996483
That is very common where I live.

Percentage based tipping is stupid.

>Get great service at a diner.
>Total comes to $12.
>20% is roughly $2.40
>Herp Derp tipped 20%.

>Go to a nice steak house, get great service
>Total comes to $100
>20% tip is $20


They just brought you food on a fucking plate, and kept your drinks filled. Fuck percentage based tips. If tips are meant to make up the difference between what they are getting paid, and the required minimum wage, you can make that up in $5.00 if you ate there over the course of an hour. If you stayed two hours, then tipping $10 is acceptable.

>>3996567
My opinion on all this "tipping isn't fair" nonsense that people seem to get so righteous about on these boards is:
if you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the meal. Eat somewhere cheaper.

Often, restaurants use tips not only for the server who brought you food, but also to "tip out" other front of house staff (bussers, hosts, etc). And, restaurants will not pay wait staff at all, making tips their ENTIRE salary.

Final thing: the hard thing about making a living working in a restaurant is getting enough hours. Dinner doesn't last 8 hours a day, so someone waiting tables at a place that just serves dinner would need to make quite a bit more than minimum wage to make an equivalent salary.

>>3995661
Ahh the joy of living in Canada and tipping 10%

>>3996601
Them living off tips only isn't my problem. I understand that it might be the only job they can get at the moment, but if they sign a contract to work for below minimum wage/no pay from their employers, that's their decision.

Also, the argument about "if you can't afford the tip, you shouldn't eat there" is horse shit. A restaurant offers a service, that service is bringing you food and drink. If you can afford to buy the food at the price the restaurant is selling it at, you can afford to eat out. The payment of the waitstaff/front of house staff, is the restaurants responsibility, not mine, the person being serviced.

The joy of not supporting the customer and server guilt game is not tipping at all.

>>3996621
The service is broken into two parts , the cooking of the food and the delivery , you pay for both separately in america
dont like it?
go screw

If you duck out on a tip here you are gonna get a ration of shit.
If you think tipping is charity, you are an idiot.

>>3996632
The fact that the payment of the wait staff has been shifted to the customer is bullshit. If restaurants can't make it because paying people to bring you food and keep your drinks full is too expensive, they need to downsize or raise their prices.

If the price of the food was raised to reflect what it would cost to pay the wait staff a livable wage, restaurants would do fine. I honestly can't believe people are alright with paying an individuals paycheck out of pocket. Imagine if you went to best buy and bought some electronics or something, and you had to tip the guy who worked there and helped you find the shit you were looking for.

>Alright, that cable comes to $40.00 plus tip for the floor staff and me, the cashier. So, the tip could be $44.00 for 10%, $46.00 for 15%, and $48.00 for 20%.

>>3996621
The price of food is the price of the food.
The price of service is the tip.
You are not entitled to good service if you aren't willing to pay for it. If tipping wasn't an expected thing, you wouldn't offer to do it.

>>3996661
The price is the same no matter what.What the fuck do you care if its broken into two parts?
Your way they just raise the cost of everything 20% and there is no room for personal expression.
Your way sucks and is not cheaper.
The only cheaper way is to be the cheap fucking prick that thinks he is cool by stealing from the waiters by not tipping.

>>3996671
If payment for the service is required, then it should clearly be put on every bill. It should not be a percentage of your total bill, it should be a flat rate per hour. This charge should be made known to everyone who orders from that place. Leaving it labeled a "tip" leaves it as optional. If I am not required to pay for the service, it's free.

Everyone on board the troll bus!
(#2)

... and nothing of value was lost

>>3996691
These guys are not trolling, they honestly dont want to tip. How can I just let that be?

Don't worry stragger, I've got ya.
Need a lift?

All aboard!

... and nothing of value was lost. Again.

>>3996671
No, the price of food includes rent, utilities, and wages + some for profit. A restaurant is not a wholeseller. Imagine if everything you buy, you must mentally add 20% to it. It is annoying. Good thing tips are optional. I give 10% - 15% usually. People who think they deserve 20% for regular service make me laugh. And if you're really bad, I will give zero.

>>3996751
>Imagine if everything you buy, you must mentally add 20% to it.
How bad must you suck at math for adding 20% to be a pain in the ass.

>>3996776
>>3996751
.. I am going to need more buses.
Lend a hand, /ck/?

>>3996751
In the USA, a lot of products and services work this way. Because Americans tend to be stingy, or always looking for the "best deal", they create this system of extra charges and 'optional' fees so businesses can stay afloat and maintain a customer base by offering the lowest base price.
It's the same thing with sales tax. You have to mentally add it to the price of the product you are purchasing. (This doesn't happen in every country. Some places tax is included in the price of the product so you know exactly what you will be paying without having to do any annoying math.)

Blaming waiters for a system you are actively participating in seems pretty ignorant as well as asshole-ish. But you are kind of playing up the asshole thing so I assume you enjoy that part.

>>3996776
Why shouldn't the price listed be the price you pay?

>>3996802
No, they actually have labor cost and list them for other services. Not lol,please give me 20% for bringing me your plate.

>>3996811
this is different than suggested gratuity on restaurant bills, or places that add 18% automatically.

>>3996806
license to charge 20% more for everything and not mention that you don't have to tip anymore

sound good

>>3996827
Exactly. It's not listed because it's optional. Nobody would mind if gratuity was listed beforehand so the customer don't get surprised or get yelled at by angry waitresses. Their low wages is not the customer's problem, it's between you and your boss.

>>3996830
This would be a better system. Tipping used to be for excellent service ("Here's something extra for you, doll.") not for doing the bare minimum.

>>3996832
Actually, it's between you and Congress.

>>3996838
That was until tips were recognized as subsidies for wages so they could be taxed.

>>3996832
>Nobody would mind if gratuity was listed beforehand so the customer don't get surprised or get yelled at by angry waitresses.
Only children and euros do not understand tipping. No on in America is surprised.

>>3996853
No one is surprised, some of us just don't feel like paying for a service fee that isn't required.

>>3996853
When did this change though, was it in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s? Oldfags always seem to complain that gratuities used to be (wait for it) gratuities, not service charges. What happened?

>>3996601

>if you can't afford the tip, you can't afford the meal. Eat somewhere cheaper.

As a financial economist this post honestly made me feel sad. I feel an actual emotion of sadness. Good job sir.

Britfag here. US posters; if I informed my server at the beginning of service that I was not going to tip them...

Would that be acceptable? I would literally say to them I will not pay you any service tip. I would then offer to get the food from the kitchen myself if they notified me when it was ready.

Would you still get upset? Don't want refills, don't want my cock sucked, don't want to be waited on. What now?

>>3996847
Nope, as I the customer, don't pay their wages. Well, not directly in any case. The waitresses were the one who decided that their low wages were good enough for the skills they had not me.

>>3996884
Go to a buffet which you can do all of that. Quite frankly, the wait staff nowadays are very entitled babies. I'm ignoring the rude public because let's get real here, the public are not as polite nowadays. We're just talking about two average people in a restaurant where one is the customer and the other gives you your dish. They will still demand a tip for talking to you.

>>3996893

I don't want food from a buffet. I want food from that particular restaurant. I don't want service. All I'm doing is ordering food from the cook, who will cook the food. I will bring him the order myself.

How is this not fair? Maybe it's because I'm British, but the idea that in America you want to force someone to purchase a service is ridiculous. I don't want it, I'm not buying it.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/09/05/050905ta_talk_surowiecki

for anyone who wants to spend more than two seconds reading something this is an interesting point that no one has explicitly stated yet, though the evidence is in this thread.

A service charge is fine, but then call it a motherfucking service charge. Don't try pass it off as a tip and pull all kinds of buttmad passive agressive BS when people don't feel the need to play along.

>>3996888
Are you aware of the wages waiters earn through tips?

>>3996901
No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want to eat at my restaurant however, you will do it on my terms or I will show you the door.

>>3996907
So much internet tough guy

>>3996907

What you are suggesting is a service charge then, not a tip?

>turning down business
>2012

>>3996901
I think that would mess with the way the restaurant is run. Seems pretty inefficient. Just eat quick service food and there is no expectation of a tip.

>>3996906
Yes, and? Are you aware, the boss is supposed to make up the difference if minimum wage is not reached? If they don't like the varying rates of daily pay, just get a straight up minimum wage job at McDonalds.

>>3996923
The wages they can make are pretty high. It's rarely a minimum wage job.

>>3996907

Uhhhhh, so this guy's basically saying that tipping in modern America is the way it is, because nobody bothers maintaining even the pretense of social equality anymore?

>>3996914
If you think I am just being a tough guy , call several upscale american restaurants and tell them you would love to come in for dinner but your religion does not allow you to tip. I guarantee most will ask you not to come in.

>>3996927

>ask you not to come in
>the same as telling you to leave

>>3996925
seems about right?

>>3996924
They they shouldn't be complaining if one or two people don't tip.

>>3996925

>>3996903
Ugh, this, not this
>>3996907

>>3996931
very similar, they do not want to serve you.

>>3996935

>they do not want to serve you
>they will not serve you

>implying I care what they want
>implying they want to turn away profits

>>3996933
I think they have as much right to be jerks about not getting tips as you do to be a jerk about having to tip.

>>3996943

>implying they care what you want
>implying people like you are giving them much profit

>>3996927
Oh sure, to be fair though this'll probably have more to do with who answers the phone. None of the HCs or owners I know would dream of turning down custom. Waitstaff are just in it for the tips, but waitstaff tend to be fairly disposable anyway (with occasional exceptions, natch).

>>3996945
It is my right to tip or not. They can't demand me tip them since the tip is at my discretion.

>>3996947

see

>>3996943

>they do not want to serve you
>they will not serve you

Oh, and,

>turning away even small profits
>do you even business

>>3996952
Some people aren't worth the measly margin they bring to a business.

>>3996959
>implying the owners would rather turn away a customer than fire a waitress

>>3996951
It is completely in their rights to ask you for a tip.

>>3996959

>do you even business
>no

>>3996967
Just like it's totally within anyone's rights to not tip them.

Not trying to start an argument here.

>>3996959
>measly margin

What kind of dive do you run?

>>3996965
Correct.

>>3996973
I agree with you. You have the right not to tip, and they have the right to complain about it. And ask you for a tip.

>>3996974
What percentage of customers do you assume aren't tipping at restaurants?

>>3996981
Actually no. A tip is optional.

>>3996974
What percentage of customers do you assume aren't tipping at restaurants?

It is a very measly margin.

Two workers at different restaurants do the same job. At one restaurant the meal is much more expensive, costing 100 dollars. At the other, it's 30 dollars.

Both workers did the same job (delivering meals, taking orders, etc) but under a percentage system one might get 6 dollars while the other gets 20. Makes no sense

>>3996990
It doesn't take away someone's right to ask for something, or to have an autonomous reaction. I don't see how it could, unless you own your waitress or something?

Bartenders make way too much in tips. The same ones complaining about people not tipping are making 300 dollars a night in tips.

>>3996996

This is actually not true. I am against tipping.

One job pays higher than the other. If the two waiters are actually rational, theoretically they would have competed for the job in the high priced restaurant, and the loser now works at the $30 joint.

Stop viewing it as the same job. Of course they try to compete for the higher wage job. The best one wins.

>>3996998
You can ask for it all you want. The answer will be no.

>>3997005
They make a dollar each time they pour you something and even then sometimes, they screw up your tipline when you check your receipts later (always in their favor mind you).

>>3997012
That's fine, but recognize that not tipping is different than saying they don't have the right to ask, or to complain. They do.

>>3997006
He's arguing that they do a very similar job. Fetch food from the kitchen, fill your drinks, etc. And that, because they do a similar job, percentage based tipping makes little sense.

>>3997006
I guarantee 90 percent of waitresses in applebees could work at an expensive steakhouse. It's not rocket science, it's something a trained monkey could do.

>>3997012

Woah, this guy is a compete wall!

He completely doesn't understand where >>3997019 is coming from,

>>3997019
Why would you need to ask for tips if 1. you're doing a good job or 2. tips are optional?

>>3997023

It doesn't matter. One monkey is marginally better than the other monkey, and it will get a higher wage.

>>3997021

They do it better. Or they would not have he more desired position.

>>3997026
No, I just find it funny that people have to ask for tips for something that is optional. Optional means you may or may not get it.

>>3997012
You will get booted then. You will live a life of never going to the same place twice.
Enjoy it. You might as well dine and dash while you are at it.

>>3997023

When I go to eat somewhere nice I find it extremely offputting to have someone who obviously doesn't know shit about food talk to me about food. It is easy to tell fake enthusiasm, and I don't mean the "happy to serve you" part.

Waitresses who work at applebees can memorize all they want but they will drive away faithful customers through no fault of their own. Unless it's near a convention center or in an airport terminal, this is not a recipe for success.

>>3997021
Broadly I'd agree with this, in my experience exceptional waiters are rare as hens teeth, so the "competition" bit rings a bit false.

>>3997033

The only time you CAN ask for something is when it's optional, you silly button, you.

Why would you ask when something
>wasn't
optional?

>>3997031
Skill isn't a factor in percentage based tipping. Your argument would work if tipping were based on skill, and thus, if you did a better job at serving, you got a better tip (which isn't meant to make up a difference in wages, and is rather, a gift).

>>3997034
If the wait staff is that obnoxious, it is the customer who doesn't want to come back. In the end, it harms restaurant.

>>3997031
That's assuming that all workers are competing for all jobs. When a job opens up at a nice restaurant, there might only be a handful of people that the employer looks at.

>>3997039
The wait staff is inferring that it ISN'T optional. That's the problem.

>>3997048
Of course. Why would you want the bottom of the barrel wait staff for your high end restaurant?

>>3997051

I think you mean insinuating. And it isn't optional.

You're spending beyond your means. Save your money for tuition and finish school. Perhaps you'll learn how to speak English correctly so you can get a better job and finally afford to eat out.

>>3997036
Waitress detected.

Service jobs are by definition unskilled. You could be replaced by a high school drop out

>>3997027
Asking is also optional. I said it was a right, not a necessity.
It's true that tipping is optional, but since culturally it is expected, not getting a tip at all is out of the ordinary and might cause your waitress to ask if you forgot to tip, or ask you why you didn't tip.

It is also considered rude not to tip, and being polite is also an optional thing, and it is also a tacit social contract of sorts. So it is odd to expect someone to keep up their end (being polite) of the social expectation if you are not going to.

No one is telling you that tipping isn't optional. It obviously is optional, except in some circumstances where the option is pay the gratuity or don't eat at the restaurant. These are circumstances like large parties, etc. I hope you know what I am talking about here.

>>3997040

Not directly.

Why is this hard to understand?

Let's go to basics,

Job 1: Denny's (Trying to be American though I'm not.)

20% tips. Let's just say you earn a $5 tip on average. (Doesn't have to be accurate.)

Job 2: <Random steak house> Texas De Brazil?

20% tips. Tipped $20 on average.

Job 2 has a higher wage than job 1.

Let's introduce 2 waiters. There are job vacancies in job 1 and 2, but only one for each restaurant.

Both waiters will want the job that pays more.

Only one can have it.

There is no reason why you would not hire the one that is marginally better if both are competing for your job.

The best waiter gets job 2, and the one that lost out goes to job 1.

This is how labour markets work.

Sources : 6 years of studying economics
Do not take what I say as canon, but please consider it

>>3997053
infer [ɪnˈfɜː]
vb -fers, -ferring, -ferred (when tr, may take a clause as object)
1. to conclude (a state of affairs, supposition, etc.) by reasoning from evidence; deduce
2. (tr) to have or lead to as a necessary or logical consequence; indicate
3. (tr) to hint or imply

It's #3. No wonder you're waiting tables.

>>3997054

As demonstrated by your use of Applebees as a benchmark reference, you've obviously never eaten anywhere nice. Also, I am male, have a boring white collar office job that pays enough to eat out all the time, and live in a city where low end waiters are aspring actors and musicians (usually with some kind of formal creative schooling), and high end waiters are lifetime restaurant workers. You?

>>3997060
It's not like they have tryouts anon.

They just look at who has the better resume, most experience, etc

>>3997060
Ah, but it's evaluating which one is "better" that's the trick.

>>3997053
Legally, it is optional.
Culturally, no.

Sometimes "what I can legally get away with" is confused with "what is expected of me to be an acceptable member of society"

>>3997066
So, you're saying it's a job for people who couldn't fulfill their dreams?

>>3997061

English your second language?

>>3997066
I make 80K a year as a pilot, so I eat out a lot.

But that isn't relevant.

I do tip, and I tip well in most cases (assuming that they earned it). But I also apply a reasonable tip standard, where I'm not going to pay someone over 15 dollars for a 45 minute job. Especially when I don't have any unusual problems. It's just take order > bring order > refill glass once.

>>3997077

Or are in the process of doing so. Point is they tend to be gregarious types to begin with, and that makes them great waiters and waitresses.

What do you do for a living?

>>3997074
>acceptable member of society

Have loadsa cash / be famous / outrageously attractive.

Not tipping doesn't fucking matter except to the aitress you just pissed off.

>>3997060
I understand your argument about skill, and being hired at a job that pays more. However, service "skill" doesn't determine your tip when it's considered a requirement to tip 20% (percentage based tipping), your argument doesn't hold. If, IF, tipping were based entirely off the skill of the server, instead of the socially accepted "you tip 20% regardless of the service quality", your argument would work.

Percentage based tipping is not something we should consider okay anymore. If the restaurant doesn't want to pay it's service people minimum wage from their prices on food alone, they need to introduce a service fee, at a flat rate (not based off the total of your bill), and pay their employees from the service fees.

>>3997072

You don't work in the restaurant, but you know this trick?

>>3997086
>What do you do for a living?

Is this so you can change the argument from one about the topic to one about anon's job? Seems like poor form.

>>3997081

So my comment about airport terminals was spot on.

I do a fair amount of business travel and the kind of service staff you see at the generic clone restaurants and hotels along the beaten path is (a) almost all the same everywhere in the world, and (b) pretty much interchangeable, as you said.

But I was talking about nice restaurants that don't cater to a captive audience, not the expense account steak house in Terminal B.

>>3997088
The mentality that some people don't matter is indicative of some skeezy social behavior, yes. I see it translating. You don't?

>>3997094

No, it's because you seem to think everyone in this thread arguing for the intelligence of waitstaff is a waitress. I've identified myself as a reasonably paid but not super wealthy office drone ($70k) who eats out a lot. I'm playing by your rules. Stop dodging the very issue that you brought up. You're unemployed and leeching off your parents aren't you.

>>3997090
That reminds of the Pizza Hut "delivery" fee which they promptly put in their own pockets and gave the drivers 30 cents.

>>3997091
Nobody knows this trick - that's the point. Servers get taken on on a trial basis and as long as they're reliable and customers don't complain, they stay.

>>3997096
Yes, I do eat near airports frequently, but I also eat at nice places. Your assumption is wrong. I merely used Applebees as an example of a place with low quality wait staff.

>>3997105
If they are allowing themselves to get paid low wages, they aren't so smart.

>>3997081
I like this idea, the "reasonable tip standard."

>>3997112
If this isn't a troll, I am disappointed.

>implying trolls identify themselves when there is more trolling to be done
>implying a troll's work is ever done

>>3997078
Maybe it's yours.

>>3997136
Oops, We = You.

>>3997126
Why? The smarter or more aggressive people get ahead. We expect us to call them smart if they haven't done anything worth calling them smart on.

>>3996950
You are not an american.
In america, no GM would ever put his staff through the trouble of a bad/non tipper.
Not ever.

>>3997252
>Paying $2/hr
>Caring about staff

lol

>>3997266
If you doubt me anon, make a few calls. Find a few upscale restaraunts in american cities and ask them if you can come in and stiff the waiters.
If you do this honestly you will find I am correct.

>>3995661
American here, I usually tip as low as 15%, but moderately around 20%.

>>3997271
If they are upscale, they would pay more. We're just talking about the types of restaurants the everyday man goes to.

>>3997286
???