/ck/ - Food & Cooking

bruh youre telling me food marketing is one giant theater of smoke and mirrors? no way...whats next, doctors are being incentivized by the pharma corps to overprescribe every single medication?

>>19804040
Everyone else guises their shady marketing with legalese or puts an astrix and footnote on their questionable claims.
Dukes is the only one that blatantly lies right on their label and gets away with it.

>>19804068
its cute how naive you are

They have altered the family recipe. Pray they do not alter it further.

>>19804035
Wait until you see how many things contain soybean oil.

False.
The first reference to the processing of soybeans into oil was in the year 1061.
An oil press for soybeans was described in 1313 and the first reference to feeding defatted soybean cakes to pigs comes from 1637.

>first ingredient
>neutral oil
There. I fixed it for you. If an old recipe called for vodka and someone used a non-potato vodka would you also go into an autistic potato rage?

>>19804115
You fixed nothing though.

>>19804123
>first ingredient
>salad oil
Better?

>>19804068
They never claimed the product they sell contains their family recipe, just that they have had a family recipe since 1917. Similar to how Rolling Rock quotes the original pledge of quality to "honor" it, not because any of it is actually true.

>>19804103
Soybean crushing only began in the US in the 1910's, and the product was used for animal feed and manufacturing soap. The efficient refining processes weren't even developed yet, and it wouldn't be a widely available cooking oil for several decades.

>>19804103
Got any sources that show that shit was done outside of chinkland if it's even true at all?

>>19804138
Oh, Western only. Fair enough and carry on. But this does beg the question if what the original oil used might have been.

>>19804127
No on every variation of your hypotheticals. Save your sarcasm and ironies for the dropout debate club.

>>19804142
Probably something like cottonseed oil or what ever was cheapest at the time.

>>19804142
Lard or tallow most likely

>>19804115
OP would get mad because they got water from a different lake.

>>19804140
See >>19804142
I took OP's claim less restrictively than was intended.
I can get you sources for my claims if you really want them but all of those developments are from Asia so they're not relevant to your points

>>19804146
Do you think the 1917 recipe used avocado oil or....?

>>19804150
Tallow and lard are horrifyingly annoying to use for mayonnaise, trust me. I've tried.

>>19804149
See, in my mind, cottonseed is the newfangled oil. I would have guessed sunflower or peanut.

>>19804071
its gay how much cock you suck

>>19804136
Dukes does claim exactly that though.
Notice how Rolling Rock doesn't make any such claim or implication, they just offer a quote to 'honor the tradition'.

>>19804127
>>19804150
Would animal fat qualify as "salad oil" to satisfy this shills argument?

>>19804179
Then maybe it actually was made with soyl. Since >>19804138 says soyl entered the US in 1911 and Duke's had been making mayo since 1917, it's entirely possible that the original recipe did, in fact, call specifically for soyl. Another possibility is that the recipe made no reference to any particular oil behind "cooking oil" or "oil" so the claim would still be true to the letter of the recipe but perhaps not the spirit.
My captcha is a snake:
>XSSSS

>>19804188
1911 is when soybean crushing first started in the US. The oil was industrial grade and used for making soap, and the meal was used to feed livestock. Solvent extraction to make cooking grade soy oil wasn't invented until the 20's, and it wasn't until the 30's that it became prominent. There is zero possibility that the original recipe used soybean oil. Unless Duke's started as even lower grade goyslop than it is today there is zero chance it used soy oil in 1917.
Maybe Duke's will switch to imported Chinese gutter oil and still claim it's the original recipe.

>>19804185
No. Salad oil is just neutral oil, as in soy, canola, peanut, cottonseed, etc. They don't have any distinctive flavors and are therefore interchangeable. It's more likely that a recipe from 1917 would just say "salad oil" rather than "peanut oil" or "cottonseed oil", as you'd just use whichever one was cheapest/readily available.

>>19804165
What makes animal fats difficult to use in mayonnaise?

>>19804243
The fats harden and congeal easily

>>19804035
so what was the oil used in 1917? olive oil?

>>19804232
Would you defend SPAM if they switched from pork to mechanically separated road kill and claimed it's the "original recipe" because it's still just meat and tastes similar?

>>19804278
No, because pork is not neutral. If they changed to a different breed of pig and it had the same taste and texture, sure, I wouldn't care. Also, an ingredient list is not the same thing as a recipe. Unless you have the original Duke's recipe and it specifies an oil other than just "salad oil", you don't really have anything to complain about.

>>19804035
>2022
>not making your own mayo
ngmi

>>19804276
Probably grapeseed

>>19804303
>"neutral"
Vegetable oils taste different too. Oil from a different species of plant, meat from a different species of animal, what difference does it make as long as the finished product tastes similar?
By your rational Duke's made with Chinese gutter oil would still qualify as "Original Recipe".

>>19804276
Olive trees were introduced in the 1600s but the use of olive oil began in the late 1990s-early 2000s

>>19804350
Gutter oil is used oil. Even if they filter it and cook with it again, it's still not neutral, and would stand out in mayo or any other cold sauce/dressing. And no, if I put a spoon of canola, soy, and peanut oils in front of you and did a blind taste test you would not be able to tell them apart.

>>19804136
We never claimed our product has 57 varieties, we just put that number on the label because it looks cool. There is only one variety. Sorry if you were misled. Keep consooming tho, piggy.

>>19804350
Also, "different breeds" of pig are not the same as "different species". If it says "pork" on the can they're still using pork. And like I said, the only difference would be if it resulted in an end product that tasted different.

>>19804380
Stick your nose into an open bottle of each kind of oil, if you can't perceive any difference you're a tastelet.
Gutter oil can be reprocessed, bleached, deodorized, etc. It's all the same to you as long as you can't taste the difference in the final seasoned product.
>>19804409
Saying the recipe calls for "cooking oil" (any kind) is the same as saying it calls for "meat" (any kind). Changing the ingredient to a different species, whether vegetable or animal, shouldn't matter as long as it tastes similar in the end, according to your logic.

>>19804218
>The oil was industrial grade
Are you sure?
The other screencap only said that most of the oil was used in soap-making, not what amount of the produced oil was industrial grade and what was food grade. I don't even know if food standards and safety regulations existed at the time to declare an oil in one category or the other. Even if such standards existed, without knowing what amount went towards soap and if any amount went towards food, It's entirely possible that some small amount of it was used in food production at some point in the six year span between then and Duke's debut.

>Unless Duke's started as even lower grade goyslop than it is today
Also possible. Remember that all sorts of things were adulterated in all sorts of ways in the past. When were food standards and safety regulations for that sort of thing first enforced in the US? If after 1917, then there you are.
I'm with you, though. I would think it unlikely for a company in the West to have used soy oil at the time because it would likely have been costlier than alternatives but we can't be certain one way nor the other.
I'm just trying to avoid thinking about this lazily and drawing conclusions without more data, so thank you for providing so much already.

>Biden gutter oil
Example: without any further data than that headline, my immediate thought was that the oil is meant for diesel fuel, likely because when I had a diesel Volkswagen, I got free used oil from a place near my house to make into biodiesel for it.
I'm guessing your immediate thought was that it's destined for repackaging as cooking oil, yeah?
Or maybe it's going to some other use I hadn't considered. Without further data, it's all speculation.

>>19804413
I worked as a fry cook for years and we used all three of those depending on what was cheapest at the time (stopped using peanut because of allergies). They are indistinguishable.
>saying the recipe calls for "cooking oil"
Who said that? I've been saying "neutral oil" or "salad oil" this entire time. Why do you keep changing words when anyone can glance at the previous posts and see you're just making things up? And the reason the different neutral oils or breeds of pork doesn't matter isn't simply because you can't taste any difference in the end result. It's also because there's no significant difference between them in general. Gutter oil would be different because it comes from a fucking gutter. If all soybean oil came from a gutter then OP would have a point, but it doesn't.

>>19804380
On their own, I would absolutely be able to tell between soy, canola and peanut oils. Cooked into something, however, I would not. I can tell if a mayonnaise is made with soy, canola, peanut or sunflower oil when I make it myself but I'm not sure I could were I to buy the stuff.

>>19804370
>the use of olive oil began in the late 1990s-early 2000s
How sad for all those Spaniards and Italians who emigrated to the US before then. Actually, no. Because Goya was selling olive oil in the US long before the 1990s as were other companies. Where did you pull this bullshit claim from?

>>19804434
Fair enough.

>>19804432
>I worked as a fry cook for years and we used all three of those depending on what was cheapest at the time (stopped using peanut because of allergies). They are indistinguishable.
So you're a tastelet. Most people, such as this anon >>19804434 can smell and taste the difference between various vegetable oils.

>"Neutral", "salad", "cooking" oil
get over the semantics, they all refer to the same group of vegetable oils were talking about.

>>19804084

>>19804035
>the heckin' mayonnaise is made with SOYBEAN oil instead of olive oil or whatever neutral goyslop oil was readily available and cheap in 1910
Make your own mayonnaise if you care so much. It's not hard, especially if you have an immersion blender.

>>19804446
>get over the semantics
That's not semantics you fucking retard. Salad/neutral oil is not the same thing as "cooking oil". Olive oil is a cooking oil, but very obviously not neutral. You can say that doesn't matter all you want except that your entire fucking argument was that the different oils do taste different.

>>19804446
>So you're a tastelet.
Anon might not necessarily be. I'm sure the sort of place that necessitates a fry cook would use only the most highly refined versions of those oils (and canola is always refined by definition). Even olive oil, when highly refined, is difficult to discern from other highly refined oils. There's still a very very very very very very very very very very slight taste to it, but being surrounded by the smell of burger grease and whatever else Anon dealt with in that line if work might make those highly muted differences completely imperceptible.

>>19804428
I'm surmising here, but I think the early soy oil before solvent extraction was only good for industrial uses in the west because the purity and flavor wasn't suitable for food at that point.

Nutritional labeling only became law in the US in the 1960's (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK209859/))

You're correct that the imported gutter oil is for fuel, I was being facetious. If refining it to the point where it would pass the taste test in finished products was economical, could Duke's use it and still claim "Original 1917 Recipe" though?

>>19804451
>especially if you have an immersion blender.
Gosh, I hate making mayo that way. I used to have a Russell Hobbs food processor which had a concave lid with a tiny hole in it specifically for mayo making. You run the machine, pour oil into the depression in the lid and the small home would trickle it in at the perfect rate for making mayo, ezpz

>>19804451
This is about Duke's false claim that their product is made with their 'family recipe from 1917', when the main ingredient is obviously changed.

>>19804370
The fuck are those fact?
The hype began in 90s, but it was definitely used way earlier.
I've goot a soviet cookbook from 50s where olive oil is named as staple ingredient, and it calls out a possibility of using it in mayonaise sauce.
And it's a fucking 2nd (or even third) edition of pre-war book from, i think 1939. And it was already full well known.

>>19804468
>could Duke's use it and still claim "Original 1917 Recipe" though?
lol
Fair point! I wouldn't say so, no. Refined used oil is so far removed from anything available to David Duke's gramma that the statement would, IMO, be a lie. Ask the same, I'm not sure I would say soybean oil necessarily would be.
I'm still curious what the oil of the time might have been. As said, I think it was most likely peanut. My preference for homemade mayo is sunflower but I don't think that was ever popular in the US

>>19804484
>calls out a possibility of using it in mayonaise sauce.
I hope they use the hot water method. The mayo would otherwise be incredibly bitter.

>>19804464
Yeah well that's crux of the issue isn't it? The finished product being similar when combined with other ingredients and flavors doesn't make different ingredients equivalent. Pork lard is neutral in flavor too, you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dish cooked with a bit of lard from one that used canola oil. Claiming the recipe hasn't changed when the main ingredient is derived from a different species is deceptive though, and why Duke's is a dirty liar.

>>19804464
It's also pretty much impossible to tell which oil the food was fried it. Maybe you can tell a slight difference if you stick your nose directly in the bottles one after another, but that's not going to translate to the finished product any more than using a potato vodka vs a neutral grain vodka would.

>>19804507
>pork lard is neutral in flavor too
And you were calling ME a tastelet?

>>19804519
Not that anon, but good quality lard made from kidney fatty is pure white and very close to tasteless.
I've only made lard from separable fat. I won't buy it since it's so easy to make. It has a great flavour. If that's the only lard you know, I can't blame you for jumping to that conclusion

>>19804511
I made the same conclusion earlier: >>19804434
>Cooked into something, however, I would not [be able to tell the difference. between soy, canola and peanut oils]

I can tell potato vs grain vodka. I'm surprised to hear that it's not common to be able to.

>>19804519
Yes, you are a tastelet. Pure pork lard is virtually odorless and tasteless. It's noticeably different from your "neutral" vegetable oils because the vegete table oils all have a distinct smell/taste. Your olfactory senses are as cooked as your brain from years of working the fry station to not only think all those vegetable oils are completely indistinguishable, but also think that lard is the non-neutral fat because it doesn't reek like seed oil.
>>19804525
This anon gets it.

>>19804544
I drink lots of vodka, and can probably differentiate brands and quality a lot better than most people. They often taste wildly different despite being "neutral". But to be honest, I'm not sure if I could consistently tell grain from potato if I didn't already know which vodkas came from what. Maybe if I drank a liter of oil every day I'd be better at distinguishing canola from soy.

>>19804544
Vodka is a very generous example too, as it strives to be as pure and flavorless distillation of ethanol as possible. You could make vodka from refined white sugar, even if the finished product was indistinguishable, you'd be a liar to claim it's an original family recipe that predates refined sugar.

>>19804556
>reek like seed oil
>seed oil
There it is. You kept waffling back and forth between claiming that the different oils all taste different and saying that them not tasting different is irrelevant. You obviously don't care about the recipe or any difference in flavor. You just wanted to bitch about "muh seed oils!" Yawn.

>>19804580
Fair enough. Potato vodka feels different to me, if that makes sense. Like... It feels different in the mouth and going down. Smoother, I guess, like honeyed water but without the sweetness.
>Maybe if I drank a liter of oil every day I'd be better at distinguishing canola from soy.
lol
My part of my home country is stereotyped for deep frying everything and I certain do fry things far more than my wife does. Even if I cook a dish that looks like it wouldn't be, chances are good that even that might have been deep fried.
Actually, we have some leftovers in the fridge right now, eggplants in homemade chilli sauce. Both the eggplants themselves and the sauce ingredients (tomato, garlic, chillies and shallots) are deep fried.
Lemme find you a video.

>>19804605
>smoother, I guess, like honeyed water but without the sweetness
Oh, I do know what you're talking about. I guess I've just never really thought about it too much. The potato vodkas available here also tends to be higher quality since it's more expensive to produce so they typically only import the higher end stuff.

>>19804600
You were just waiting for this strawman so you could bail. They do taste different, and I never said that's irrelevant, quite the opposite. This is about Duke's fraudulent claim that the product they're selling is an original family recipe from 1917, which it obviously isn't.

>>19804625
You specifically used the gutter oil example to reduce my argument (or rather, a strawman) to absurdity. Of course we all agree that we don't want our mayo made with gutter oil - even if we can't taste the difference. You've been operating under a premise that isn't agreed upon, tacitly equating soybean oil with gutter oil, or at least putting them in the same category.

>>19804439
He's probably from some podunk place in the South or out in the Plains. Even in my smallish Midwest city I grew up in, tons of families had been using olive oil for generations.

>>19804637
I use gutter oil as an example because you're arguing the provenance of the oil is irrelevant as long as it subjectively qualifies as "neutral" or "salad" and passes the taste test. It would be as false to claim gutter oil mayo is the original 1917 family recipe as it is to claim the current product whose main ingredient wasn't even an available product in 1917 is the original recipe.

>>19804654
>you're arguing the provenance of the oil is irrelevant as long as it subjectively qualifies as "neutral" or "salad" and passes the taste test
No, I'm arguing that the provenance of the oil is irrelevant if it's a typical neutral/salad oil, not that one's personal ability to taste any difference is what qualifies an oil as such. I don't make any distinction between neutral/salad oils as long as they don't affect the flavor of the final product, which I'm guessing we're not going to agree on. You have been working on the assumption that certain neutral oils are worse than others because of muh seed oils meme. As I already said in so many words, if I were to find out that the "salad oil" I was buying from the grocery store was actually Chinese gutter oil I would not be happy - even if I couldn't tell any difference from the flavor. That is perfectly reasonable. You seem to just want to bitch about how everything used to be better in the old days when LE EVIL SEED OILS weren't in everything, even though, as I said at the outset, Duke's original recipe most likely just said "salad oil" or something similar.

>>19804481
what's the original recipe? post it or shut the fuck up

>>19804742
He wont because he can't. And saying neutral oil is the main ingredient is like saying water is the main ingredient in laundry detergent, or vinegar is the main ingredient in Tabasco.

>>19804035
>Most of the early uses of soybeans were as a food with the first reference to their processing into soy oil in the year 1061

Moron.

>>19804439
Lol. Even if you're under the age of 30 and don't actually remember anything prior to the late 90's, the idea that olive oil didn't exist in the US prior to then is just absurd. Like, even without googling anything, he's on the food and cooking board and has (hopefully) seen a recipe from an American cookbook from SOME point in the 20th century. "California" has been producing olive oil since before the Revolutionary War, btw.

>>19804694
>No, I'm arguing that the provenance of the oil is irrelevant if it's a typical neutral/salad oil, not that one's personal ability to taste any difference is what qualifies an oil as such.
You contradict yourself. You admit that provenance is irrelevant so long as the replacement meets a certain criteria. That criteria is subjective though, and based on what the majority of consumers will accept. By you own admission you're part of the non-discerning group, that can't distinguish between different oils, even though other people can smell the difference.

You'll probably end up eating gutter oil in your lifetime. It will be marketed as triple refined and environmentally sound, and approved by 9/10 taste testers. What difference does the provenance make anyway? If the oil fried some food between solvent leeching, that's just one extra step in the processing.

>>19804742
It's in the OP you illiterate fuck. This is what they claim is the original family recipe since 1917.

>>19804382
lmfao, enjoyed the added touch with the image name.

>>19804828
You sound like you carry a gun everywhere you go, and stroke it while you're sitting in traffic, muttering to yourself how everyone else are just sheeple. What's like constantly being afraid?

>>19804838
what are you even angry about you psycho?

>the original recipe has soybean oil
>I'M ANGRY THAT IT HAS SOYBEAN OIL IN IT I THINK THEY'RE LYING BUT I CANT PROVE IT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE ACTUAL ORIGINAL RECIPE TO CONFORM MY DELUSIONS BUT THE JEWS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS

>>19804875
Why are you retarded

>>19804778
Yes, this was covered
OP meant soybean oil in the West. It wasn't common until 1911, which is six years before Duke's claim of their recipe dating to 1917 but the fact that it was available doesn't matter because maybe, possibly, perhaps there's a ghost of a whisper of a shadow of a chance that 237% of the soybean oil was used exclusively in industry at the time, especially soap, rather than for cooking.
Of course, no evidence has been provided for the claim that no soybean oil was used in cooking back then. And, rather, there was backpedaling that maybe they did use soybean oil but that wouldn't be the same as today's soybean oil because it would have been possibly, maybe, perhaps be lower quality than refined oil used today or something.

I bought Escoffier's Le Guide Culinaire a few years ago and was all set to make his Côtes de Porc à la Flamande. But then I realized that the pig he was using when he wrote the recipe had likely been dead for over a century and I couldn't possibly recreate the dish. Thank god for Amazon being so understanding when it comes to their return policy. Jeff Bezos is truly one of the only people keeping this modern world from going completely off the rails, amiright?

I am with OP. the dishonesty in US food marketing makes me seethe

I also seethe at the shitty nutrition label. Real countries get 100g nutrition labels, and they don't round everything like mongoloids.

this is what happens when there's no authentic food culture. there simply aren't enough seethers like me to keep them honest. Most people blindly accept it.

>>19804035
You buy pesto, nowadays and it's got fucking soybean oil. Shit's everywhere. Anyway, Duke's is OKish, but Heinz is the best.

I'm sure grandmama's recipe said something like "Use some oil" and then made recommendations for what worked well.
On an American ingredient list, though, you can't say "might be this".
This lady was probably functionally illiterate and the internet hate machine is arguing over "What did she mean by this?"
LOL

tl;dr this thread is autistic cancer

>>19804040
kek this. every other literal who small town in the US has some restaurant claiming to be the "home of the world-famous X" and people eat that shit up, literally

>>19805687
>buy pesto
Fucking why?!
Boiling and peeling eggs is more difficult that making pesto.

>>19805814
i don't have a food processor

>>19804218
>Unless Duke's started as even lower grade goyslop
It 100% did dude food standards are an extremely recent thing, read a book, specifically The Jungle

>>19804115
yeah I was thinking the same thing. the recipe is probably the seasoning blend they use. the base oil hardly counts as part of the recipe.

This is a Wesson Oil advertisement literally from 1917. Notice how it says the brand name, and then "shortening", "salad oil", and "frying fat"? But if you actually want to know what kind of oil it is you have to look at the picture of the can where it says, "Southern Cotton Oil Co."? That's how it would have been written on a recipe at that time. Either as "salad oil", "Wesson Oil", or even just "oil". Go look up some recipes from 100 years ago and see how specific they are. I have no idea if Duke's used Wesson oil at that time, but if they did, and that's what was written in the recipe, then technically they wouldn't have changed their recipe if they kept using Wesson. Wesson would have when they ditched cottonseed for a blend. Again, PEOPLE DID NOT OBSESS OVER WHERE THEIR SALAD OIL CAME FROM 100 YEARS AGO. Even 20 years ago nobody was losing their mind over it the way zoomers are. And guess what? That EDTA on the ingredient list didn't exist in 1917 either.

>>19805897
And they all have fat lardoid diabetes now. Boomers sure were smart! kys youself you kike faggit

>>19805911
Yeah, if only we could get Duke's to go back to using cottonseed oil we can eat all the sandwiches we want without worrying, right? Fucking retard.

>>19804068
>the only one

>>19804035
OP is illiterate
The label doesn't say "the same recipe since 1917", just two staments
Family recipe, and near that, Since 1917
Both are true

>>19804875
Blow your brains out

>>19804035
It doesnt say what's in the jar is the family recipe.

>>19805332
the thing that makes me angry is how companies are allowed to hide that meat products in food have non-meat fillers. it's almost impossible to get any kind of meatball that you don't make yourself that doesn't have soy protein in it. I think taco bell meat is like 15% oat fiber even after articles making fun of them for it came out.

>>19806529
>are allowed to hide that meat products in food have non-meat fillers
lol
No they're fucking not LMAO
They declare whatever fillers in the ingredients list. Where's the hiding pussy come in? The public's complete lack of curiosity and utter disdain for learning is not Duke's or any other company's fault.
And why in the shitting fuck of a cunt are you buying fucking meatballs? The recipe is in the fucking name lmao Do you but scrambled eggs, too? lol

>>19804040
Meds. Now.

>>19804115
>If an old recipe called for vodka and someone used a non-potato vodka would you also go into an autistic potato rage?
Yes

>Duke's Mayonnaise
>Not made by Duke Nukem
Fucking scammers

>>19806928
Forgot my pic