/ck/ - Food & Cooking

it's not meant to be "great on its own," more of a contrast against the acidity of the tomato sauce. however, it can be really good. when i make it for lasagna i do a fair amount of nutmeg and pepper, fresh finely minced basil leaves, a couple egg yolks and ricotta cheese in addition to the parmigiano reggiano (you're using the real stuff, right?). it turns out great

add moar cheese to the bechamel/mornay

>>19496081
Good timing OP. I just made lasagna with bechamel too. I’m a new fav when it comes to cooking, how exactly is bechamel supposed to taste, it came out perfectly the way it was supposed to, but I feel like I didn’t put in enough nutmeg when I tasted it (ground instead of fresh).

Was it supposed to have salt too, I used unsalted butter.

>>19496138
I've found it's best when you can actually taste the nutmeg, like that should be a detectable flavor in it. (Implicit in that is making sure the bechamel is seasoned properly, of course.) That note of nutmeg works really well in lasagna

>>19496111
I've done it several times with white and black pepper. I used too much nutmeg once which overpowered everything else but after that I got it right every time, same with salt. kerrygold butter, really expensive fresh parmesan grated with a microplane, tried it without too. it's honestly just a shitty sauce that makes you feel bloated

>>19496138
Always use fresh nutmeg, never the ground bullshit. Be careful, though, as it can be very overpowering. Just taste and add more, if you feel it needs it.

>>19496138
yea you definitely need to add salt. unsalted butter is perfect, salted is usually subpar. if you add too much nutmeg your whole lasagne just tastes like nutmeg. you really need to be careful, just a little bit is enough

>>19496081
I like moussaka, otherwise it's whatever.

>>19496081
The first video, he mentions veal and onion via Escoffier, and that's really the way to make it a good stand-alone sauce. You can get pretty nice results with pork, adding other subtle undertones with nutmeg or clove, bay leaf, cayenne, and so forth. It's still a subtle sauce like that, but there is depth to it when done right. The modern version of seasoned milk thickened with roux is just a base IMO. It has it's uses in other flavorful dishes, but adding stronger/sharper flavors to it, like parmesan, makes it a different sauce. Eg: mornay

>>19496081
>am I missing something?
Taste? I like the pepper and nutmeg of beshemel, and it compliments a good ragu sauce very well.

My lasagna:
Bottom layer: ragu sauce lightly spread on bottom of pan
Next: Noodle
Next: ragu, beschemel, butter bits, mozzerella bits, parmigian
Repeat until you get to the top of your pan, than top it off with the ragu / besch / cheese layer.

If you're ragu game is weak, your lasagna will be weak.

>>19496081 (OP)
>am I missing something?
Taste? I like the pepper and nutmeg of beshemel, and it compliments a good ragu sauce very well.

My lasagna:
Bottom layer: ragu sauce lightly spread on bottom of pan
Next: Noodle
Next: ragu, beschemel, butter bits, mozzerella bits, parmigian
Repeat until you get to the top of your pan, than top it off with the ragu / besch / cheese layer.

If your ragu game is weak, your lasagna will be weak.

>>19496228
>he mentions veal and onion
he does but he doesn't go into detail. how the fuck do you incorporate veal and onion into bechamel?

>>19496115
It's not supposed to have cheese fatso. Go back to olive garden.

>>19496276
I'll see if I can find Escoffier's recipe online. I have the book here, so if I can't find it online I might take a picture later.

>>19496081
All french sauces are shit and only get dicksucked be sure people perceive them as classy and high skill

>>19496081
I love lasagna

>>19496276
>>19496298
Here, found a good video before I found a picture of the recipe from the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7oqeiXPzjE

>>19496263
my ragu game is near perfect now. nobody ever talks about tomato paste but I think using good stuff like mutti (triple or with veggies) makes a huge difference even compared to other respected brands like ORO. I use veal stock although i'm not sure it's worth it since most italians just use water. I cook 5x bronze-made lasagna for 4 minutes and use the starchy water to make my ragu a little more creamy. most of the fat in the ragu is discarded because I hate it when the lasagna is too heavy. no mozzarella in between all layers either for the same reason.
I grew up with only one layer of creme fraiche on top + cheese. maybe that's why I can't get used to to 4-5 layers of bechamel now. I don't think it's worth it at all because it just doesn't taste good enough especially when you consider how bloated it makes you feel

>>19496161
Bro, then you're not fucking doing it right. Add a scoop of Dijon, maybe even some ground mustard. It's not rocket science to figure out that flour + butter + milk/cream has very little flavor on its own.

>>19496341
thanks anon, this is an interesting approach. it reminded me of the shallot infused white wine base in this hollandaise recipe, really good stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EjI9BTYLE0

>>19496391
>a scoop of Dijon
I think I'll try that next time because there really is very little flavor. using too much nutmeg absolutely ruins it, too much salt is easily salvageable

>>19496162
I just checked all three of the grocery stores online in my town and none of them had whole nutmeg, only ground.

>>19496434
this can't be real. just go to any store, they will have it. even LIDL and ALDI have whole nutmeg. you have a microplane, right?

I make lasagna with ricotta like a normal person.

>Unbleached flour
>Good quality butter
And here's the kicker
>Use a bit more butter than flour
There. A simple and tasty besh.

>>19496414
The rule is you never salt until the very end. I even use unsalted butter for this very reason. Sometimes even just adding fresh parmesan cheese is enough (rarely). My bechamel is usually
>Tablespoon flour per butter
>Brown roux
>Milk and splash cream
>Teaspoon nutmeg
>2 teaspoons ground mustard
>Paprika
>Garlic powder
>Onion powder
>Healthy spoon full of Dijon
>Whatever cheese is appropriate for what I'm making
Mozzarella will not add the flavor you think. Parmesan is a must. I usually add a pinch of Blue or Gorgonzola to round it out regardless if it's bechamel or mac and cheese

>>19496446
NTA but also happened to be looking for nutmeg for stifatho, neither kroger or aldi had whole nutmeg

>>19496276
28—BECHAMEL SAUCE
>Quantities Required for Four Quarts.
>1 lb. of white roux.
>2/3 oz. of salt,
>1 pinch of mignonette, and grated nutmeg and 1 small sprig of thyme
>4 1/2 quarts of boiling milk
>1/2 lb. of lean veal.
>1 minced onion.

>Preparation.—Pour the boiling milk on the roux, which
>should be almost cold, and whisk it well so as to avoid lumps.
>Let it boil, then cook on the side of the fire. Meanwhile the
>lean veal should have been cut into small cubes, and fried
>with butter in a saucepan, together with the minced onion.
>When the veal has stiffened without becoming coloured, it is added to the Bechamel,
>together with salt and the other aro- matics. Let the sauce stew for about one hour in all, and then
>pass it through a tammy into a tureen; butter the top, lest a crust should form.
>When Bechamel is intended for Lenten preparations, the veal must be omitted.

>There is another way of making the sauce. After having
>boiled the milk, the seasoning and aromatics should be added;
>the saucepan is then covered and placed on a corner of the
>stove, so as to ensure a thorough infusion. The boiling milk
>must now be poured on to the roux which has been separately
>prepared, and the sauce should then cook for one quarter of an hour only.

>>19496459
>>Paprika
>>Garlic powder
>>Onion powder
that sounds like too much. is your bechamel still white? I thought about adding cayenne but never did

>>19496446
i just use the fine side of a cheesegrater

>>19496474
what do these guys do with the cooked veal anyway? do they just throw it away when the bechamel is done?

>>19496349
To each their own.

I like the bechemel in lasagna, and mine
>pic related
doesn't come out "heavy" the way most do that use things like ricotta. Probably because I make my own noodles and make them pretty thin.

>>19496434
Find a brown person store. They import whole spices and they're usually cheaper than the packaged shit sold to whity in the normal markets.

>>19496483
Yes

>>19496288
yes it is
its the base for cheese sauces

>>19496288
It's very, very common and popular to add a young dry cheese to the bechamel for lasagna
Not so much that it makes strings but enough to give it some flavor

>>19496490
Probably.
That was back during the age of feeding Emperors. They could afford to toss some scrap veal.

>>19496391
if you toast the flour, brown the butter, use quality mile and add this thing called salt it can be quite flavorful if your taste buds aren't burnt out from cheetos and mountain dew

>>19496081
Maybe you didn't make a good roux? If the flour is raw, then it's sure to be a bad bechamel. Try making a tan roux, letting it get a bit more toasted. Equal parts of butter and flour too.

>>19496081
Bechamel is literally flour, milk, and butter. What exactly did you think it was going to taste like?

>>19496548
>yes it is
Not for lasagna. Should just be butter, flour to make a roux, add milk to thin it out, add black pepper, nutmeg, salt. That's it.

>>19496888
Literally all the Italian nonas I've met have told me their secret is to put a little hard cheese into the bechamel
My dad grew up in an Italian/Polish neighborhood in France, one time, I was substitute teaching, and this Sicilian kid talked back at me and I told him to go fuck himself in Italian it was kind of hilarious

>>19496888
>cheesey lasagna bad
no wonder people think its tasteless flyover food

>>19496081
>>19496138
>>19496159
>makes beschamela
>doesnt use expensive butter
>doesnt bake it
kek

>>19496138
>>19496159
>>19496081
>>19496162
>>19496914
To add to this:
>makes beschamela
>uses cuckmeg
>not using Sal e Pepe Negro with CAYENNE POWDER
>does NOT put it on top the Lasagna and grate the parmesan on top
>uses pre-grated parmeshit
Lol and kek and lel and lmao :^)

>>19496548
>its the base for cheese sauces
Yeah no shit cheese is in cheese sauce but unfortunately we're talking about bechamel not fucking nacho dip you disgusting fat retard.

>>19496909
Parmigiano and fresh mozzarella go in between each layer and top it off. You don't need it in the bechemel, and use the bechemel exactly for the creamy, nutmeg laced accent it brings, not for any cheese flavors.

>>19496081
Just make a proper sauce bechamel and not just thickened milk:
650 g White Roux—using: 300 g clarified butter and 350 g sifted flour
5 litres boiling milk
300 g lean veal
2 finely sliced small onions
1 sprig of thyme
50 g butter
pinch of coarsely ground pepper
pinch of nutmeg
25 g salt

>>19496914
>>19496933
of course I used good kerrygold butter. nobody in this thread said anything about pre-grated parmesan either. mine is 36 months old, I like it much better than the 24 version.
are you high?

>>19497647
>5 litres boiling milk
what do you do with that much bechamel?

>>19497909
It's a recipe for restaurant kitchens. Just scale it down. Fond recipes are even 12 l and most other sauces 10 l ratios.

>>19496081
Grate some garlic into it

>>19497904
"good kerrygold butter"
>Americans

>>19496081
like most french food bechamel is dogshit

>>19496081
I use cottage cheese (not ricotta, which isn't even cheese) in my lasagnas. If I wanted to make a bechamel I would add egg yolks to, or use evaporated milk, or milk powder + half of the recommended water to make it very concentrated and rich.