/ck/ - Food & Cooking

That rabbit seems like a fire hazard

>>16882298
>>inb4 you can't cook
seems like you already know the answer

>>16882302
i'd put up the unbaked cheesecake my mom just served me against any cheesecake I've ever made or had without a seconds hesitation

>>16882298
>>unbaked cheesecake is 90% as good as baked cheesecake
sure, theyre not the same item anyway
>>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
better sauce with all those additives they have, the meat and pasta is soggy garbage
>>chicken soup made with water is 90% as good as chicken soup made with stock
assuming you add enough veg for flavour, since thats all the stock is
>>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
no comment here, fries arnt very good to begin with
>>plain boiled chicken soup is 90% as good as chicken soup started with a mirepoix
now youre just babbling, you seem to just like chicken in liquid
>>frozen dumpling are just as good as restaurant dumplings
what do you think the restaurant uses?

>>16882345
>now youre just babbling, you seem to just like chicken in liquid
Kek

>op's tastebuds are 90% dead

Dairy is a culinary crutch. Imagine taking a fantastic Opera, with all its highs and lows, then reducing them all to somewhere in the middle. That's what dairy does to good food. It reduces all aspects of the flavours, and turns it into a slightly agreeable abomination of everything it used to be. Truly disgusting. Don't get me started on Italian """"cuisine""", the most boring """"cuisine"""", everything is slathered with cheese and tomato, it is incredibly boring. Once you've had a single Italian """"dish"""", you've had them all. Very boring.

>>16882322
that's really not saying much anon

>>16882298
Yeah agree, those are massive copes for being a lazy shit.
>>16882554
>Once you've had a single Italian """"dish"""", you've had them all. Very boring.
Olive Gardens and similar "Italian" restaurant/restaurant chains aren't representative for Italian cuisine you mong.

>>16882298
say what you want about me, but lay off the soup

>>16882568
I never said anything about Olive Gardens, in fact that chain doesn't even exist in my country. I am speaking about Italian """"cuisine"""".

>>16882593
>I am speaking about Italian """"cuisine"""".
Yeah, that's what I was saying. You're not talking about Italian cuisine, but some vile representation of it.

>>16882298
frozen dumpling tier list
>homemade
>homemade but sold in select stores
>asian brand frozen dumplings
>asian american brand frozen dumplings
>"asian" frozen dumplings
i do sometimes like shit tier dumplings. one that i had was mashed tofu and some vegetables, but it had a nice spiciness to it.

>>16882607
No, Italian """"cuisine"""" itself is vile. A boring mish-mash of tomato and cheese. It is simply overrated, and enjoyed by cretins. It's babby's first food which isn't microwaved hot pockets. It's sad watching people """"enjoy"""" Italian """"cuisine""""

>Ooooh I sure do love Italian food, all the... tomato, and, uh, cheese... and oregano! Omg I love oregano!

>>16882628
Nice trolling retard. I sure got convinced Italian cuisine is just tomato and cheese and oregano.

>>16882298
>>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
You're either deluded, lying or don't have tastebuds.

>>16882630
Not trolling. Italian """"cuisine"""" is the most overrated, and that is simply indisputable. I never said Italian """"cuisine"""" is only tomato and cheese and oregano, but those along with what, basil, make up the base flavour for the vast majority of Italian """"cuisine"""". Like I said, it's babby's first food which isn't microwaved hot pockets. It's very middle of the road, inoffensive to just about anyone, but very boring and bland. There's a reason why it's so popular with everyone from white trash to even the upper echelons of society, because it is very middle of the road and boring, and rarely to people not enjoy it. It's because it is boring, bland, everything has the same base flavours. It truly is the most overrated cuisine. This .webm is a great example of that. Think you'll find this guy enjoying any real food, or only this disgusting mass of cheese and tomato sauce with some wheat mixed in? What do you think he'd be eating if it wasn't this? Microwaved hot pockets, maybe? You're fucking pathetic.

>>16882554
That’s actually a very good point about dairy and I agree Italian is the most overrated cuisine by any measure.

>>16882630
Seething. Any criticism of Italian food is like mentioning IQ by race. People just lose their minds.

>>16882628
tomato wasn't a part of italian cooking until columbus came back

>>16882646
That's true, but Italian """"cuisine"""" has evolved for the worst. I'm sure there are Italian dishes that aren't comprised solely of wheat, tomato, dairy and some other herbs thrown in, and I might even love them, but Italy has to do a better job of promoting it's real food and culture, not babby's first meal.

>>16882298
How much for the toaster?

>>16882647
You had some good points about dairy, it does flatten out the flavour. Still you really should expand your horizon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJPRGKQ6qC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eaQa-9XIyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxMjO3Vd4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcnPs0cLpT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7aKJx6ml-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVrROeoSFGI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n86-OcR0s0I

>>16882647
A great example of something which I would actually consider cuisine and to be Italian, is ossobuco. Great cuts of meat braised in a broth and sometimes some wine too, with some vegetables thrown in there too. This is Italian cuisine, not wheat, tomato, and dairy.

>>16882298
Wow it's so depressing that I can cheaply buy food that tastes basically as good as food I'd make.
I'm so upset about living in this time really just tears me up.

>>16882345
>chronically undercooks frozen lasagna
>thinks chef opinions matter
Protip the instructions on the box are a suggestion not a rule.

>>16882554
>>16882644
Why do the flavor retarded insist on cooking and having food opinions? If some cheese is overwhelming the flavor of your dish, you either cannot taste properly of your dish had no flavor to begin with.

>>16882639
I didn't read your post, but I enjoyed the webm.

>>16882647
Italian dishes without tomato are just what most call "Mediterranean" dishes now, which I think is a far better cuisine. But I might be biased because I hate the overuse of cheese and am not the biggest fan of tomato.

Thread's packed to the brim with literal retards

>>16882298
That extra 10% is all the difference between mediocre food, and great food.

You're probably some faggot smoker that's fried their palate, anyways.

>>16882647
>Italy has to do a better job of promoting it's real food and culture
It sounds like you're a flyover whose only experience with Italian cuisine is Olive Garden and Domino's Pizza. The fact that you can't name any Italian dishes than pizza and spaghetti is just telling on yourself

>>16882709
That pic is the quintessence of americanized italian cuisine

>>16882646
Italy didn't even exist then, it was born centuries later, so no sweetie you are wrong, tomato has always been part of italian cooking

>>16882298
I think you just don't have any tastebuds.

>>16882677
Well make a sauce with reduced stock. Taste. Add butter and cream. Taste again. The sauce will have gained something but also lost something. In a few words you will be less able to taste the meaty flavour, because butter and cream makes these flavours appear to be milder.
>>16882688
Italy is a Mediterranean country, and those dishes are still Italian no matter what you call them. And you seem confused about the "overuse of cheese", because you only seem to know about the subset of Italian cuisine that got popular outside of Italy.

>>16882719
Real Italians live in New Jersey

>>16882677
The cheese is not overwhelming. The problem is the cheese, or any other dairy, reduces the flavour of the dish, until it is a slightly agreeable abomination of what it used to be. This is a fact.

>>16882709
The vast majority of Italian """"cuisine"""" is built upon the basis of wheat, tomato, cheese, and other assorted herbs. It is part of the Italian national identity at this point, and I personally find it pathetic.

>In 1889, in the culinary field, the pizza Margherita was invented, named in honor of Queen Margherita of Savoy, whose main ingredients recall the tricolour flag: green for the basil, white for the mozzarella and red for the tomato sauce.

>>16882757
I mostly meant that i prefer the more Mediterranean style dishes over the Americanized "muh gallons of sauce" and brick of cheese shit. Americans homogenize "ethnic" cuisines by adding cheese. It's the same reason I don't like "Mexican" food here in the states.

>>16882298
Forzen fries are better, too true.

>>16882298
>most depressing food fact
people go to school and waste money to learn how to cook.
something that every woman instinctively knows how to do for people she loves.
therefore, if your mom or girlfriend is shit at cooking, then perhaps you need to realize she hates you and wants you dead.

>>16882666
I just listened to some interview with a war refugee who came here as a teen. He described with amazement that by working one hour at a gas station he made enough money to eat for four days. While back home he had to work all day to barely make enough to eat each day.
And this easier cheesecake is only 90% as good.

>>16883308
checks out...

>>16882322
so your mom can cook, but you can't.

>>16883308
>[incel detected]

>>16882776
you know that story is apocraphal, right?

>>16882298
No matter how thoroughly you wash your fruit, vegetables, and meat, you will never get all the bacteria and parasites off of it. You will always be eating someof them and giving them a place to live.

>>16883334
i'm from eastern europe, i think i'll take a much smaller salary and getting to live in my own place over being a tranny nigger debt slave living in the same apartment as 3 other tranny nigger debt slaves except making 4 times as much

>>16883416
And yet you still obsess about imaginary people. Weird. Take your meds and shut the fuck up.

>>16883436
huh?

>>16882345
>now youre just babbling, you seem to just like chicken in liquid
Lmao

>>16883416
I work a pretty even keeled job, and live in a house on some acreage. I also have leftover money to do other stuff.
I hope you do too, but America is a big place and there a lots of different ways to live here.

>>16882776
>The cheese is not overwhelming. The problem is the cheese, or any other dairy, reduces the flavour of the dish, until it is a slightly agreeable abomination of what it used to be. This is a fact.
Schizo?

The most depressing food fact is the fact that I just got food delivered and they gave me a faggotass salad instead of the spaghetti I ordered.

>>16883548
>imagine paying someone to make you spaghetti and then pay someone elso to bring you said spaghetti
At least try not to order the easiest and cheapest shit you can make at home

>>16883570
It was a special spaghetti and also I didn't feel like cooking today. Fuck you.

>>16882298
>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
What kind of shitty lasagne do you make? Frozen lasagne is one of the worst frozen foods out there. Tbh, even most restaurants suck at making lasagne.

>>16882662
Absolutely true, it's also genuinely Italian. Tomatoes are not Italian, they were brought to Italy from the Americas.

>>16882709
What is this supposed to be, chicken marsala? It's fine, it's chicken with a pan sauce. There a ten thousand variations on this cooked all over the world.

>>16883406
It might be

>>16883478
No, this is a simple fact.

>>16883739
>Tomatoes are not Italian, they were brought to Italy from the Americas
stop perpetuating this godawful meme, produce from the americas has been part of european cuisine for centuries now, it's an inextricable part of european cuisines
at one point it might have been new, but that's no longer the case

>>16882298
>>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
Even restaurant lasagna isn't even 50% as good as my homemade lasagna. I have no idea what they're doing wrong. It's just ragu, bechamel and lasagna plates and cheese but for some reason they seem to be cheaping out on ingredients or something. I've never had a lasagna as good as the one I made myself.

>>16882298
>Cheesecake
No
>Lasagna
No
>Everything you said about chicken soup
No
>Fries
No
>Dumplings
Literally the only thing you got right. Lemme guess, you were raised by some bland thot in flyoverland, huh? You have the pallette of a 90 year old man with dementia.

>>16882298
>unbaked cheesecake is 90% as good as baked cheesecake
absolutely FUCKING WRONG
>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
more like 70%
>chicken soup made with water is 90% as good as chicken soup made with stock
wrong
>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
depends on how much work you want to put in
>plain boiled chicken soup is 90% as good as chicken soup started with a mirepoix
more like 60%
>frozen dumpling are just as good as restaurant dumplings
absolutely correct

>>16884124
Tomatoes are not Italian in origin. They may now be part of Italian """"cuisine"""", but it's for the worst.

>>16884186
wow two memes in one post, that was a good one /int/, we're so lucky to have you come on over and participate in discussions

>>16884199
Not a meme lol. Like I've already said multiple times, dairy is a culinary crutch, and Italian """"cuisine"""" is boring and bland. Mmmm, wheat, tomato and dairy, my favourite...

>>16882662
What's that herb?

>>16882554
>Once you've had a single Italian """"dish"""", you've had them all
This is true desu, italians are the autistic fussy eaters of food

here's my impression of every single Italian ever

>MAMA MIA IM SO ANGRY THAT THIS COMBINATION OF CARBS, CHEESE AND TOMATO HASN'T BEEN MADE EXACTLY LIKE MY RETARDED MOTHER MADE IT AND IM NEVER GOING TO FUCKING SHUT UP ABOUT IT

fuck italy desu

>>16882639
I feel like you could boil any culture's food down into shit like this. Hell, I would wager this is a copypasta of some kind even

>>16882554
Absolutely fucking this. It's the easiest shit ever and I have zero respect for people who use dairy.
My roommates were raving about the cooking of a girl they brought over, so we had her cook for us. She said she'd make a chicken dish. Now, I'm expecting a beautifully and masterfully roasted chicken or a fricasse of chicken thighs. Instead? She makes chicken thighs with a heavy cream and mushroom based sauce. That's when I knew she couldn't make anything. Sure, it tasted fine, and my roommates fell for it, but it is so one-note. Just fat, with some added trimmings to not overpower it. She made a pasta dish too the next time she came over. Wanna know what she made? Vodka sauce, which also has cream. Brought leftovers for us which everyone except me loved, and what was it? Chicken paprikash, which also has cream.

I think specifically, anyone who uses cream in their dishes is a terminally bankrupt and worthless chef.

>>16884441
No fucking way am I spending any amount of time cooking for some randos while I'm at their house.
>Literally just cook fucking chicken in a pan, deglaze, add cream, mushroom, and an aromatic of some kind
As you pointed out, everyone loves this shit and it's the easiest thing in the world to do.

>and my roommates fell for it
>S-she tricked them into enjoying the food ;_; you don't understand, it was a deception, they weren't actually enjoying it please :(

It's easy to make single servings, it's nice to make on a friday and then drink a scotch after. Literally whatever shit you already have in your house is fine, it's a winning combo for a reason. I wouldn't call it haute cuisine, but who cares?

>>16882298
>>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
fuck no, the difference can be HUGE
>>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
making good fries at home is a pretty difficult and laborious task, it's not just cutting potatoes in small sticks and then deep fry them.
Commercial frozen fries are good enough, fool proof and much less of an hassle.

>>16882647
>>16882662
Italy has many regional cuisines that are very distinctive from each other.
In the northern regions, tomatoes weren't that common until 50-100 years ago, so you can find many traditional tomato-free recipes.
The kind of italian cuisine that is more popular outside of Italy mostly comes from the south, because that's where most of the Italian immigrants came from, but there are a lot of great dishes from the other regions too.

>>16882776
Nothing you've said ITT is a fact, only your hipster contrarian opinions

>>16884441
>I have zero respect for people who use dairy.
Imagine hating dairy this much. Are you lactose intolerant or just don't like it? Too bad for you I guess.

>>16882628
Then eat north Italian cuisine that has hardly any tomato at all in it.
Or south Italian cuisine that uses cheese sparsely outside of dishes like pizza.

>>16882345
HOLD UP!In what world is frozen lazagna sauce better. It tastes far less flavourful. Dull even. I absolutely cake frozen lasagna with salt and pepper.

Any lasagna made with ricotta or cottage cheese is fit only for throwing into the garbage

>>16884441
>be cream
>good versatile ingredient
>NOOO YOU CANT COOK WITH THAT ITS TOO EASY
unless you cook with stone age tools then shut the fuck up, why is there this obsession that you have to handicap yourself and then be proud of it?

>>16884376
Not sure which one you're talking about there are two different herbs in that picture, but I'm not sure what either of them are

>>16884403
Not a copypasta, and you wouldn't need to do this to any other cultures food, because this only applies to Italy.

>>16884636
The problem isn't that people enjoy the food, or that it's easy to make something agreeable, it's that whoever cooked it is scared. They're scared of having to balance the flavours in a dish, so they take the easy route, they pull out the culinary crutch. There could've been some amazing flavours that played off of each other and blended together well, but no, there's dairy now. It's all very middle of the road, and ultimately a much more boring dish than it would have been. I understand some people aren't capable of really cooking, and perhaps they only know how to cook by slathering a dish in dairy, but ultimately they would enjoy food much more if they learned how to cook properly, as would Italians.

>>16885025
No, everything I have said is fact. Dairy is a culinary crutch. It reduces all flavours in a dish until it reaches a very boring place, somewhere in the middle. If food with dairy was music, it would be the most boring music, you would have to cut all the highs and lows out from a song, leaving only the middle, no variation, no excitement, nothing worth listening for. If you had to listen to music to survive, as you must eat to survive, then I suppose it would be worth listening to that sort of music, or be worth eating food laden with dairy.

>>16885110
I have no hate for dairy, it makes for a nice dessert, it goes well in coffee, but it certainly has no place in any real food. As I have said before, dairy is a culinary clutch. Any """"real chef""""" ever caught using dairy to reduce the flavour of their dishes should be forcibly thrown out of their kitchen. At least that's what I believe.

>>16886571
It's not about handicapping yourself, it's about handicapping your food. All th...

>>16886571
...All the stronger flavours are reduced, all the subtle flavours are covered up. Dairy simply ruins the intricacies in food, and honestly, sometimes even on a textural level dairy will ruin a dish. But that is not my point. My point is, dairy itself is the handicap. It is used by the handicapped. You should not be able to call yourself a """"real chef"""" if you rely on dairy in any capacity.

>>16886743
>any real chef

>>16886743
>>16886752
All of the five mother sauces contain dairy.

>>16886790
French cuisine would be better off without the mother sauces. When I think French cuisine, I think beef bourguignon, beautiful crunchy bread, soft delicate croissants, ratatouille, beautiful wines. The only place dairy really belongs is in desserts in my opinion, after you've had a beautiful meal full of amazing flavours, you want something nice and sweet just to end the night with, and I personally think France does a good job of this. Creme brulee, mousse au chocolat... dairy has it's place in dessert I believe. But it should not be allowed anywhere near a meal. It's a sign of a weak, scared """"chef"""", and someone that doesn't know how to balance flavours, so they let dairy do it for them.

>>16886806
>French cuisine would be better off without the mother sauces.
Well, at least now its certain that you're retarded.

>>16886834
How are the mother sauces used? They are added to a dish when a """"chef"""" doesn't know what to do. They've begun making a dish, and they don't know how to finish it in an acceptable way, so they decide to pull out the culinary crutch. I will admit, France were smart when they developed their culinary crutch, it's not as bad as just throwing cream or cheese into a dish, but it is still detestable. It's a sign of a weak, scared """"chef"""". Like I said, French cuisine would be better off without the mother sauces.

>>16886858
Hello thirdie
Don't be scared of lactose

>>16882298
>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
I don't know what happened with french fry technology in the past 10 years, but oven fries are suddenly good now.
Used to be you'd have to fuck around with pulling them out of the oven and crank the temperature a little higher, and even then they weren't that good. But now even the cheap brands can be cooked according to their instructions and come out with a crispy outside and fluffy interior.

>>16886916
Dairy has its place, and it is in dessert and drinks like coffee. Dairy pairs well with sugar, as it is very difficult to drown out sweetness with dairy. Even as part of a breakfast it can be okay I suppose, but as more of an accompaniment than part of the actual meal itself. You're not really looking for something nice and flavourful during breakfast, more something that's just agreeable and you can get it down during the morning before work, or just as an easy meal to start the day off with. But in a """"dish""""? Or as part of a """"cuisine""""? Absolutely not. A sign of a weak, scared """"chef"""".

>>16882554
Amerimutt detected. Italian-American cuisine isn't Italian cuisine, and neither is Olive Garden

>>16886806
>Beef Bourguignon
Has butter in it.
>Croissant
Has butter in it.
>Ratatouille
Literally just diced veggies simmered in tomato sauce. What could be more safe?
>Bread
Flour, water, yeast. Truly takes a master chef to cook.

This nigger really thinks sour cream, yogurt, and buttermilk mute the flavors of a dish.

>>16887026
No one has said anything about America, Americans, Italian-American """"cuisine"""" or the Olive Garden, except for you. It's really actually quite telling.

>>16887057
Yes, beef bourguignon does have butter in it. But it is not a prominent flavour, in fact you cannot taste the butter unless you have used way, way too much.

Croissants are a different case, that isn't really a dish, that is more of a breakfast item, which I would consider acceptable. Breakfast is about breaking the fast from the dinner you ate, after waking up, and some people find it hard to eat after waking up, they need a few hours to become hungry. That's one place dairy isn't such a horrible idea, it does make it easy to get food down. The same way bread is buttered or given a bit of olive oil.

Ratatouille may be a simple dish, but it is bursting with delicious flavour, unlike something which has been diluted with dairy, the culinary crutch.

Bread is a very simple item to make in theory you are correct about that, but to make bread well, truly world class bread, you have to be a good a skilled baker, with knowledge and experience. The ingredients in bread may be very simple, but there is so much variation in bread and how it's made, what ratio of ingredients are used, etc, that it does become a very skilful act to be able to make a quality loaf of bread.

>>16887125
Yes, they do, and this is a fact.

>>16887160
If you're making this argument unironically, you're quite possibly the biggest retard on this site. That's quite a feat.

>>16887165
I am not being ironic or trolling, I am very serious. Dairy is a culinary crutch. The only people that rely on dairy do not know how to balance flavours, and they need to rely on dairy to do it for them. It is the lazy mans way of cooking, or the way of the inept """"chef"""".

>>16882554
You are stupid.

>>16887170
No, I am not stupid, I am correct about this. It is a fact that dairy is a culinary crutch, it dilutes all flavours of a dish until they reach a very boring middle ground.

Anyone that is upset with my opinion, I challenge you to cook without dairy. Stop using it to dilute your dishes, start tasting food as you cook it, and adjust it as it needs, without ruining the dish with dairy. You will enjoy the food more, you will enjoy cooking more, you can be more creative without dairy. Dairy is like a security blanket for inept """"cooks"""". They turn to it when they're scared and don't know what to do.

>>16887174
Does milk give you the poo poos?

>>16887174
So, basically Asians are the only people on earth that know how to cook? Ok. Yeah....I'll buy that.

>>16887178
No, I am not lactose intolerant or allergic to any foods. I can enjoy anything I like, which is why I choose to not cook with dairy. It makes cooking less fun, it makes the food less enjoyable, and it's a very boring flavour.

>>16887180
There are many dishes that don't use dairy from Western countries, look at Scandinavia for example. They have many dishes that don't feature dairy which taste great and are full of strong, robust flavours, which harmonise well.

This is a great example of that, it's a dish called Fläsklägg Med Rotmos.

>>16887187
>Country
>Scandinavia
How retarded are you exactly?

>>16887187
>It makes cooking less fun
lrn 2 cook
>it's a very boring flavour
Stop eating processed shit and pick up a block of english cheddar

>>16886743
holy shit you're retarded

>>16887197
Please don't try misrepresent my words. I said countries, as Scandinavia is a region of Europe, which contains multiple countries.

If I've offended you by saying that dairy is a culinary crutch, because maybe you rely heavily on dairy to do the flavour balancing for you, as you don't really know what you're doing in the kitchen, that's okay. You can learn to cook properly. This is an opportunity for you to re-evaluate how you work in the kitchen, and to make better food. You will enjoy cooking more, you can be more creative without dairy, you will notice the minute differences, and you will ultimately enjoy the food you cook more.

>>16887204
If you truly knew how to cook, you wouldn't use dairy. As I have said multiple times, it is a culinary crutch. It is for the """"chef"""" that is incapable of balancing flavours on their own. They don't taste their food as they make it, they decide at some point to add dairy, to simply take the easy, lazy way out.

English Cheddar is a strong flavour yes, it has its place on things such as cheese boards or charcuterie boards. But I am not talking about English Cheddar. I am talking about people taking a dish which had the potential to be something good, but the """"cook"""" decided to take the lazy way out, and they decided to dilute their dish with dairy. The culinary crutch.

>>16886806
>French cuisine would be better off without the mother sauces
you're clueless

stop posting

>>16887208
Please learn to cook proper food, without diluting all the intricate and robust flavours with dairy. You're honestly a shame.

>>16887211
No, I will not. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Dairy is a culinary crutch, it is used when the """"chef"""" is incompetent, or they have decided to be lazy, or they simply don't care. It's a culinary crutch.

>>16887209
You said many western countries, and then said "look at Scandinavia for example." It's a region. Not a country. What you should have said is, "look at the region of Scandinavia". And I'll use as much dairy as I feel like using. And no one can stop me. Especially not some autist on 4chan.

>>16887215
You are a non-french ape commenting on things that are our territory. You're praising Scandinavian food for christ's sake.
Fuck, you might even be American.

>>16887223
Yes, many Western countries have food without dairy, and I used the region of Scandinavia as an example. I use the word countries, because the region of Scandinavia is made up of multiple countries. I could have said the region of Scandinavia, that would've also been correct, but the point of my post was not that Scandinavia has dishes without dairy, it was that Western countries have dishes without dairy, and I simply used Scandinavia is an example. Do you understand now?

Feel free to use all the dairy you like, but know that it is a culinary crutch used by those that don't really know how to cook. It is the lazy way of cooking. The unimaginative way of cooking. The food produced is sub-par, very middle of the road, and ultimately a lot more boring than what the food could have been without it.

I challenge you to cook without dairy though, and learn to balance the flavours in your dish. I promise you, you will ultimately enjoy cooking and the food you make more.

>>16887227
No, I am not French, I simply used French food as an example. I could've used any other food, Spanish for example, paella is a beautiful dish. Imagine if you added dairy to paella. Would you like to eat that?

For the record I am not American.

>>16887230
I challenge you to take your meds.

>>16887235
So, your amazing Scandinavian dish Fläsklägg Med Rotmos. Yeah, every single traditional recipe I've looked up (10 and counting) has butter and cream, or butter and milk in it.
Again I will ask. How retarded are you?

>>16887257
Of course you can find dishes with dairy from Western countries, that's where the majority of dairy is consumed after all. I'm not saying that Scandinavian dishes all lack dairy, I'm saying they have dishes without dairy, and their flavours are much more interesting and pronounced compared to the dishes that do have dairy.

>>16887209
>butter is a crutch
>cream sauces are a crutch
>yogurt is a crutch
You sound like a pretentious cunt

>>16887260
You said Fläsklägg Med Rotmos didn't feature any dairy. Try to keep your troll posts straight autismo.

>>16887265
That doesn't mean I'm wrong. Dairy truly is a culinary crutch.

>>16887230
I agree with you but this is the most dedicated display of autism I’ve seen in a long time. I would subscribe to be notified whenever you post on this board and I’m not even memeing.

>>16887267
Some people choose to add a small amount of butter to the mashed root vegetables, it is not a necessary component of the dish. Regardless of that, it is not enough to influence the flavour.

>>16887270
I don't have autism

its like watching Adam Ragusea trying to justify milk making his tumtum hurty

>>16887260
I like potatoes and rutabaga and turnip as much as anyone. But, no one is eating a root vegetable mash without butter and cream/milk. That would be like eating meat without salt. The dairy isn't diluting the flavor of the veggies, it's enhancing both the flavor and the texture. You absolute mongoloid.

>>16887268
You sound like you can't cook worth a damn.

>>16887276
I can't find a recipe without it. You're the only autist in the entire region that making your root mash without butter and cream anon.

god i hope he's finnish, that would just put a bow tie on this whole thing

>>16887277
I don't know who that is, and I am not lactose intolerant. Dairy is simply a culinary crutch.

>>16887278
Like I said, some people add a small amount of butter, but it is not necessary. I personally would rather balance the flavours of the dish in other ways, and I enjoy the texture of mashed root vegetables without butter. Some people need that creamy consistency, and I would say they have ruined their palate with too much dairy.

>>16887279
No, """"cooks"""" that rely on dairy to do the flavour balancing and regulating texture for them are the ones that cannot cook worth a damn. There is a skill in not diluting your food with dairy and learning how to balance flavours around each other, and using proper techniques to ensure the proper texture.

>>16887283
I'm telling you that butter isn't a necessary component.

>>16887285
Finland is one of the countries that consume most dairy. I am not Finnish.

>>16882298
Frozen dumplings are on the same level as low tier restaurants, but get btfo by grandma tier homemade ones, or even just high tier restaurants.

>>16887276
If it didn't influence the flavor, they wouldn't be using it. That's your entire argument, isn't it? That using dairy ruins the delicate flavors of dishes? So, adding butter and cream to your mash isn't going to affect it now? Take your meds and maybe tomorrow you'll be able to regroup and keep your larp on task.

>>16887290
No, it's a textural regulator. It isn't used in that dish for its flavour.

Dairy does ruin the delicate flavours of dishes, but to say a small amount of butter overpowers the flavour of root vegetables is just silly and a misrepresentation of the facts on your behalf. You're trying to argue in favour of ruining the flavours of dishes in bad faith. I'm beginning to think you are a troll.

>>16883656
Fun fact, most restaurants are just serving you frozen food that's been heated up

>>16887286
It looks like it is to me. I haven't found a recipe that doesn't use a combination of butter, cream, or milk. You said it was a dish that "didn't feature dairy." Obviously you're wrong. You seem to be the only one not using it.

>>16887295
Anon, you lost this one. Just pack it up for the night. You got btfo in your attempt to deride dairy as a cooking ingredient.

>>16887299
Some people have ruined their palates with dairy. The flavours of root vegetables would be "too strong" for them if they didn't add cream, or milk. They might also not like the texture of the dish, and they need it to be more creamy, to have a dairy like consistency, to enjoy it. These people have ruined their palates. The dish does not need to feature dairy, but of course, if someone chooses to, they can ruin the dish and add dairy, if that's the only way they can enjoy it.

>>16887300
No, everything I have said is correct. Dairy is a culinary crutch, and it dilutes the flavours of the dish, and after thinking, it even changes the texture of dishes.

Some people need their food to be a creamy mush with very boring middle of the road flavours to enjoy it. Perhaps they've never eaten food without dairy, and when they have, the person cooking didn't know how to balance the flavours, or the proper cooking techniques to ensure a good texture to the food. This is a fact.

Some people have simply never enjoyed a real dish.

>>16887301
You said it was a regional dish that "doesn't feature dairy". Do the people of the region use dairy in the dish, or not? Because I'm not seeing any evidence that it's not traditionally made with enough butter and cream to absolutely affect both the taste and texture. If you choose not to use butter and cream, that's your choice. But, you completely misrepresented the dish you used as an example of a tasty dish that "doesn't feature dairy." It appears to very much feature butter and cream.

>>16887306
It doesn't feature any dairy, dairy is not a main component of the dish. The same way someone may brown some beef for a beef bourguignon using butter.

There is no single set recipe for any dish, there are always variations. It is up to the person cooking the dish to decide whether they want to add dairy and ruin their dish, and some people do choose to do that, because they don't know how to balance the flavours without dairy.

I have not misrepresented the dish by saying it does not feature dairy, because it does not. Some people may choose to use dairy in that dish, but as I have said multiple times now, it is not a necessary component of the dish.

If I was using a recipe and it told me to put say, 10 tablespoons of pepper in there, I would not do that simply because a recipe said to do so. I know that would likely ruin the flavours unless there was something there to offset it. You could get away with 10 tablespoons of pepper if you drowned the dish in dairy, but at that point you really aren't cooking anymore.

>>16887316
You're dedicated to the larp. I have to hand it to you.

>>16887329
I'm not trolling or larping. Dairy truly is a culinary crutch.

I challenge you to cook without diluting your dishes with dairy. I promise you, you will enjoy cooking more, you will find it a much more creative process, it will be more rewarding and fulfilling when you create something that truly tastes good.

I also challenge you to not blindly follow recipes. A recipe can be written by anyone. I could write recipes and publish them on the internet. You could write recipes and publish them on the internet. A 12 year old could write recipes and publish them on the internet.

>>16887336
Ok. I'm going to make Fläsklägg Med Rotmos. But, I'm going to use a steak instead of a pork hock. And I'll just use potatoes by themselves for the mash. And I'll add a bunch of butter and cream to them, and probably some cheese too. I think I'm going to like this regional Scandinavian dish!

>>16887336
some dishes use dairy, some dont. some are enhanced by it, some are not.

>>16887349
That would no longer be Fläsklägg Med Rotmos. Fläsklägg Med Rotmos means pork leg with root mash.

>>16887353
No, I would argue dairy is a culinary crutch, and the vast, vast majority of dishes are better off without it. I'm sure there are some dishes that are centred around dairy, but that cannot be helped by removing the dairy. I would regard those as boring dishes.

>>16886443
I thought lasagna was literally ricotta? What are you supposed to use? I don't like it much, I find it a mess of texture.

>>16887362
what would you use to make a hearty stroganoff like meal?

>>16887362
I don't follow recipes chud!

>>16887369
My favourite stews are made with red wine reductions honestly, but if you want something simpler I'd go for a goulash, but substitute some of the tomato for more stock, that's what I'd do personally. Taste it as you make it, adjust it as you see fit. I just don't enjoy a goulash that tastes entirely of tomato, and I do not add the sour cream which others do.

>>16883308
based

>>16883590
>i didn't feel like cooking
so you go and buy a fucking spaghetti of all things?

>>16884376
thyme. the herb is bushier towards the ends of the stems (on the left), and the leaves are smaller and further apart further down the stem (on the right)

>>16882298
>chicken soup made with water is 90% as good as chicken soup made with stock
>plain boiled chicken soup is 90% as good as chicken soup started with a mirepoix
so transitively, hot water is 81% as good as chicken soup with stock and vegetables?

also
>creamlet seethe thread

>>16882573
maybe you should marry soup

>>16887362
>No, I would argue dairy is a culinary crutch, and t
You are too categorical. Most people like variety. Some times I want a white fish with beurre blanc, some times I want whole grilled white fish with only salt/pepper and lemon. If I really want to taste the meat/fish I go with no dairy of course.

>>16882298
>90% as good as
Really lost here.
Is it depressing to you that better food isn't _that_ much better than good food?
Explain yourself, Opie.

>>16888989
Which is precisely the issue with dairy. As it is a culinary crutch, the dairy will reduce the variety in an individual dish. All the flavours are simply reduced to somewhere in the middle, you can't taste any of the intricacies. They're all covered up and hidden away.

>>16882554
>>16884441
This is masterwork bait, I could reasonably be convinced that at least a few severely autistic individuals actually believe this.

>>16889121
This is not bait, this is entirely true. Dairy is a culinary crutch.

>>16889110
I'm not saying to always use dairy. What's wrong with using it sometimes as variety? Why are you so categorical?

>>16889124
You're really going the extra mile to try and convince me. Very good bait, 10/10. You deserve every (You) you've dragged up with this line.

>>16889136
Dairy does have its uses, in desserts it is great, in coffee milk is good too, some people can find it agreeable in the morning for breakfast, charcuterie boards, cheese platters, things of that nature. But to ruin a dish with dairy? That is just a sign of a bad """"chef"""". There are some dishes that are centred around dairy yes, but I would argue that those dishes are fundamentally bad.

>>16889138
I'm not baiting, lying, trolling, larping, or trying to perform any sort of trickery. This is all true. Dairy is a culinary crutch.

I challenge you to try cook without relying on dairy to regulate flavour and texture for you. You will find cooking much more rewarding, a more creative process, you will genuinely have fun experimenting with flavours and balancing them as you cook, and you will discover new foods that you like, combinations of flavours you like, and you will gain a new found appreciation for foods that you used to pile dairy into, but no longer do. Dairy is a culinary crutch, it is the lazy way of cooking. It is for people that never bothered to learn how to truly cook.

>>16889151
You avoided my question pretty much. Take fish, what's wrong with sometimes using beurre blanc, and sometimes not use diary? What's wrong with this variety?

>>16882554
Use better and rarer dairies.
Stop using cow's milk, mozzarella and/or cheddar for everything.

>>16889151
Refusing to cook with an entire category of ingredients that have flavor profiles that range from sweet and fruity, to sharp and tangy will make my cooking more fun? Not to mention the additional textures dairy products can add to food. You really think I'll have more fun cooking without this wide ranging category of ingredients?

>>16889187
You ignored my previous post. If you don't understand what's wrong with using dairy, read this post again. If you still don't understand after reading this post, explain what you don't understand and I'll try explain again in a way you might understand.

>>16889110

>>16889189
No, this is a feature of all dairy. They all reduce the flavours of a meal until it's something that is relatively agreeable.

>>16889198
Yes, 100%. Dairy is a culinary crutch. There may be many types of dairy, but that does not change the fact that it covers up flavours, it changes texture for the worst, and it reduces a meal into a single homogenous mash.

>>16889206
>You ignored my previous post. If you don't understand what's wrong with using dairy, read this post again. If you still don't understand after reading this post, explain what you don't understand and I'll try explain again in a way you might understand.
I perfectly understand that dairy flattens and makes things taste milder. For example if you have a reduced beef stock and add butter and cream and reduce to same volume, lots of the taste and nuances will be lost. As far as I understand you, you make a leap from here to saying it's always wrong to use diary for a meat dish. But that conclusion doesn't logically follow from the premise, there is some argument missing/left out/implied. My question is, what is wrong with sometimes wanting the pure unadulterated flavour, and sometimes wanting the milder dairy flavour?

>>16889206
Yeah, I've always noticed that my mashed potatoes taste really bad when I add butter and cream to them. They are so much better when I just boil potatoes and smash them up with salt. Same with pizza. The cheese really ruins the whole experience. Just bread and sauce for me thanks. A piece of toast? Extra dark, no butter. Really gives you that perfect mouth feel. I'm really starting to come around to your way of thinking anon. You're definitely not just severely autistic.

>>16889206
I've also noticed that when I put salt in my food, it tends to taste better. We need to let the world know that salt is also a culinary crutch. I challenge all chefs to remove salt from all your dishes.

>>16889235
You shouldn't use dairy in any dish at all. Would you add dairy to ratatouille?

What's wrong with wanting a milder flavour is the only reason someone would want a milder flavour is if they have a palate that has already been ruined by dairy. Some people become accustomed to needing every dish to be reduced in flavour, as they're not used to anything that isn't smothered in dairy, some """"cooks"""" rely on dairy as they are lazy or never learned how to properly cook. That is what's wrong with dairy in a nutshell I suppose.

>>16889243
Please read my posts carefully, I've already addressed this issue. Dishes that are centered around or rely heavily on dairy are fundamentally bad dishes.

You do not need to add butter and cream to mashed potatoes, use your imagination. Add stock, or a roux, or a white wine reduction even, if you add some herbs to your mashed potatoes you can honestly make the white wine reduction work very well if you pair it with something good. Hell, even a red wine reduction if you're eating it with a nice hearty beefy meal.

Pizza is honestly just an abomination and a culmination of what is wrong with Italian """"cuisine"""". Wheat, tomato, dairy. Need I say more?

Dairy has it's places, and on bread it is fine I suppose. I personally do not use it on bread, I have olive oils that are infused with flavours, I personally prefer to use that on my toast and bread compared to the boring and dull flavour of butter or margarine.

>>16889257
Salt is one of the 5 basic tastes (or 7 if you include temperatures, which I do not), along with sweet, sour, umami and bitter. You're just being silly at this point. Salt adds to a dish, it elevates flavours, it brings out more depth and complexity. Dairy does the exact opposite, because it is a culinary crutch.

>>16889321
You just think that because your pallete has been ruined by salt. Salt ruins food. It's a fact.

>>16889345
No, that statement is fundamentally wrong. Salt is one of the 5 flavours that make up all flavours that we can taste. If you did not have the salt receptors on your tongue, then your palette would be flawed.

>>16889321
>the only reason someone would want a milder flavour is if they have a palate that has already been ruined by dairy.
But you say dairy is ok for desserts. Wouldn't this ruin your palate? Also I'm not sure if you're trying to give a purist argument, as in you should be able to taste the pure flavour of the ingredients, or if your argument is about flavour-maximization. Can you elaborate?
>Some people become accustomed to needing every dish to be reduced in flavour, as they're not used to anything that isn't smothered in dairy
That's off-topic, as I'm not talking about such people.
>some """"cooks"""" rely on dairy as they are lazy or never learned how to properly cook.
That is a good point, but on the side of things, I'm not talking about cooks that rely on dairy in the way you describe.

>>16889372
It's okay, most people like yourself want to deny that salt is a culinary crutch but it's understandable. Once you realize how much the flavor profiles stand out after you stop using it you'll be amazed by its uselessness. Go ahead and try it - you can truly taste the meat and vegetable profiles coming through when you cook without salt.

>>16889404
No it would not ruin your palette, as dessert is almost always a sweet dish, and dairy does not overpower the sweet aspect of a dish. Besides, dessert should only ever be eaten after you've had a real meal, and by that I mean something not doused in dairy. It's a nice way to end off a delicious meal, with something simple and soothing. It's almost like a nightcap.

My argument is both, and the fact that dairy is a culinary crutch. Dairy reduces the pure flavour, and the flavour maximisation.

>>16889408
I know you're trying to troll me in bad faith, but I will entertain you just to show you that even you are wrong in this regard. As I already said, saltiness is one of the 5 flavours that our tongues can perceive, along with sweet, umami, sour, and bitter. Without salt receptors on your palette, you would be missing out a large part of the flavour spectrum. Foods have naturally occurring sodium too. To say you can taste the true meat and vegetable profiles without salt just demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of food itself. Of course you could put too much salt into food, and in fact I've seen a person do that once, over 15 years ago, and it was only a single person. They promptly threw up. It was only 5 grams of salt.

>>16882637
>>>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
>You're either deluded, lying or don't have tastebuds.

I've heard of italian restaurants buying large slabs of Stoffers lasagna and portioning them out for customers.

>>16889433
So you approve of for example ice cream. Take vanilla ice cream. It won't overpower the sugar, but it will make the vanilla flavour milder. I'm assuming you approve of vanilla ice cream, which might or might not be true. Could you give examples of dessert you approve of?

>My argument is both, and the fact that dairy is a culinary crutch. Dairy reduces the pure flavour, and the flavour maximisation.
So are you for maximisation of the pure flavour? Or do you mean adding lots of garlic, garam masala etc. is good for flavour-maximisation?

>with something simple and soothing. It's almost like a nightcap.
So we can agree that dairy has desirable qualities that humans enjoy. Mostly for fun, are you able to describe what dairy does add to a savoury dish? Because surely it must add something too?

>>16889433
again it's okay to think you need salt when you don't I understand, even you point out foods have naturally occurring sodium. Knowing how to utilize said meats and produce can easily provide a tantalizing meal without the need for extra salt.

>>16889490
It will make the vanilla flavour milder yes, but that's what ice cream is meant to be, it's what desserts in general are meant to be. They're generally very easy to eat, sweet, and don't have any bold outstanding flavours. It's why they're traditionally eaten after a meal I personally believe, as it is a good way to end a good meal that is full of robust flavours. It's almost like a palette cleanser.

I don't think I disapprove of any desserts. Maybe pavlova, I think that's a bit rich in dairy even for a dessert, combined with the meringue.

My favourite desserts would be anything with a rich chocolate flavour though, I had a great chocolate and hazelnut mousse... cake type thing a few days ago, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was chocolate mousse, hazelnut mousse, covering a crunchy biscuit, and all of that was enveloped in dark chocolate. It had good flavour which all harmonised well, the texture fit the dish, and it was a nice way to end the night.

Like I said before, dairy does have it uses, and desserts is one of them. But a quality dish? No.

Adding a lot of flavours can be good, but of course they need to be balanced and offset with other things, you couldn't go and add 40 garlic cloves to any dish, but I did in fact have a roast chicken that was prepared with 40 garlic cloves once, it was a few years ago now, but the garlic flavour was offset by the rest of the dish and it worked surprisingly well. This is also due to the fact that the garlic was roasted whole, it wasn't all grated onto the chicken or used as a stuffing.

No, I cannot think of a single savoury dish that dairy adds to. I believe that any savoury dish can be made better by excluding dairy, with the exception of dishes that are centred around dairy, which I would say are fundamentally flawed.

>>16889491
Salt is an integral part of our taste buds. To even think of removing it is just silly.

>>16889321
>I have olive oils that are infused with flavours
Those flavours will mask the pure taste of olive oil. You don't need to add flavours to olive oil. Those flavours have probably ruined your palate so that you can't enjoy the flavour of pure olive oil.
>>16889491
This is true. Take a steak for example. Meat can have subtle sweet flavour. Adding salt will mask this flavour. Some """"""""""""""cooks""""""""""""""""" rely on salt as they are lazy and never learned how to properly cook. Some people become accustomed to needing every dish with lots of salt, as they aren't used to anything that isn't smothered in dairy

>>16889555
If you have made the olive oil infusion incorrectly then I suppose they could ruin the flavour of the olive oil, but olive oil has such a strong flavour that you would need to infuse a very large amount of flavour to a small amount of olive oil to do that. It simply doesn't happen, unless the olive oil infusion is prepared incorrectly.

I agree partly on your second point. Meat can have a subtle sweet flavour, but salt will not mask any of it, unless used improperly. This is not the case with dairy. If you add any amount of dairy to a good quality dish, you will instantly see a reduction in flavour, and if you add enough, texture.

You are correct on people becoming accustomed to needing every dish with lots of salt if they do smother it in dairy though, I could definitely see someone starved of flavour dumping too much salt onto their dairy laden food.

>>16889542
>It will make the vanilla flavour milder yes, but that's what ice cream is meant to be, it's what desserts in general are meant to be.
So everything ends up in what you think things are "meant to be". Other people disagree, and I think this is as far as we can come.
>My favourite desserts would be anything with a rich chocolate flavour though, I had a great chocolate and hazelnut mousse
Here I could say something like: Well you don't really like chocolate flavour, if you did you wouldn't add dairy which mildens the chocolate flavour. Your palate is ruined by dairy.
>No, I cannot think of a single savoury dish that dairy adds to.
Well you certainly were able to describe a pleasant sensation that eating dairy gives. At least that would be added to the dish. Not everyone wants to eat sweets all the time for their dairy needs. I like to eat yogurt with garlic and a tiny bit salt, but that's not approved by you as it will make the flavour of garlic milder.

>>16889151
>this is all true.
Please, post a timestamped photograph of yourself. I want to see the kind of person from whom such opinions might spring.

>>16889542
Read my posts sir, I haven't denied salt being part of our taste buds or any of that ilk, rather that you can find other means to acquire said salt flavor through combinations of meats and vegetables. Saying you need salt merely means you're using it as a crutch to explain why you couldn't achieve a decent combination to get a salty profile to your satisfaction

>>16889569
>Meat can have a subtle sweet flavour, but salt will not mask any of it, unless used improperly. This is not the case with dairy. If you add any amount of dairy to a good quality dish, you will instantly see a reduction in flavour, and if you add enough, texture.
If you add salt in any meaningful quantity, you will mask this sweetness. Also it's possible to use so little dairy in a dish that you can't detect it.
>You are correct on people becoming accustomed to needing every dish with lots of salt if they do smother it in dairy though, I could definitely see someone starved of flavour dumping too much salt onto their dairy laden food.
I obviously meant to write:
>Some people become accustomed to needing every dish with lots of salt, as they aren't used to anything that isn't smothered in salt
But you seem to be the kind of person that is just an intolerable asshole that will pretend you didn't actually understand what was trying to be said.

>>16889602
Yes, desserts are designed to be mellow in flavour, very agreeable to the majority of people and easy to eat. This all fits dairy to a tee. That's why dairy has its place in desserts.

You could say that, but at that point it wouldn't be a dessert anymore. It mildens the chocolate flavour, but in the case of dessert it is desirable, while in a quality dish it is not. Dessert is something eaten towards the end of the night, before you're getting ready to go to sleep. It isn't really the time to have a meal full of fantastic flavours, that's much more of a dinner situation.

That """"dish"""" is centred around dairy, I would consider it fundamentally flawed.

Like I have said multiple times, dairy has its places, it is simply not in a quality dish.

>>16889613
I am simply an ordinary person. You can imagine what I look like.

>>16889621
I have never said you need salt, I have said it is a necessary part of our taste buds. Without salt, you would be missing a large part of the flavour spectrum. There is naturally occurring sodium in foods of course, but the simple matter of the fact is that the naturally occurring sodium is not enough to flavour a dish, and if you've cooked a dish in a way that it would benefit from salt, you shouldn't disregard it simply because some foods have naturally occurring sodium.

>>16889626
You can brown meat for a beef bourguignon with butter of course, but that is not a feature of the meal, the same way using butter to make a roux is not a feature of the meal.

Sorry, I read exactly what you typed and responded to it, just as you are doing to me. I'm not here to make assumptions on your behalf, and I'm sorry that you feel I'm intolerable, but it was your mistake was it not?

>>16889646
>Yes, desserts are designed to be mellow in flavour, very agreeable to the majority of people and easy to eat.
And many savoury dairy dishes are designed to be mellow in flavour, very agreeable to the majority of people and easy to eat. Therefore since it was designed that way, they aren't flawed, just something you don't like.
> It mildens the chocolate flavour, but in the case of dessert it is desirable
That's your opinion, I like pure chocolate as a dessert too.
>Like I have said multiple times, dairy has its places, it is simply not in a quality dish.
That's your opinion, and other people have other opinions. I think we end it here.

>>16889694
No, those savoury dishes could be improved by excluding dairy and substituting it with something that would add flavour to the dish, rather than take it away. If you cannot exclude or substitute the dairy, then I would regard the dish as fundamentally flawed.

Pure chocolate can be good, but I wouldn't call it a dessert. I'm not sure if there's an English word, but it is more comparable to a digestif or maybe even an aperitif. Unless you're eating a whole bar of chocolate or something, in which case you're a glutton if anything.

No, we do not end it here, as it is a fact that dairy is a culinary crutch. It reduces flavour and takes away from a dish. You are unable to balance out what dairy does to a dish, as dairy is essentially the great equaliser in terms of food, but only for the worst. All the flavours of the dish are reduced to something homogenous, much too agreeable, and ultimately boring. This is why dairy is a culinary crutch, and this is a fact that cannot be changed.

>>16889646
It's okay, I understand defending salt since you've become accustomed to that crutch but you'll understand how little it truly adds when you try challenging yourself as a cook and remove said crutch. Like you've mentioned to others might as well challenge yourself and discover these things on your own.

>>16889711
You seem unable to entertain other ways of thinking, even if you disagree, and to appreciate different perspectives. You apply arguments to savoury dishes, that just as well could apply to the sweet dishes where you approve of dairy.
>this is a fact that cannot be changed.
Well facts are something humans arrive at, an what facts humans arrive at is determined by their point of view and perspective. What one group of people or culture hold as a fact, might contradict what another culture holds as a fact. Both can have rationally arrived to the same conclusion, but the premises can be different and even incompatible but still be rational premises.

So any more arguing from you now, would just be some silly game of "I am right, you are wrong".

>>16884377
>he never had a sassy Italian mother to prep the universe's perfect combination of carbs, cheese, and tomato
I pity you, anon.

>>16889646
>I am an ordinary person.
This could not be further from the truth, and for protracting a bad joke this far, I would happily see you dead.

Just made Cream of Mushroom soup without the cream, bros!

It tasted like shit, but I at least developed some very useful culinary intuition.

>>16887236
he can't, pills got lactose in em

>>16889321
tf is your problem with wheat and tomatoes?

>>16890711
You have begun your journey to being a true """"""""""""""'''''"'''''''''''''''''''''''''Chef"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

>>16889743
No, salt is one of the 5 basic tastes that humans can perceive. If you were to remove salt, you would be missing a large part of the flavour spectrum.

>>16889773
No, you are simply wrong. Why would I entertain something that is incorrect while I know what is the correct answer? That simply doesn't make sense. The fact of the matter is, dairy is a culinary crutch.

The arguments could not be applied to sweet dishes because they are different things, you are trying to equivocate dinner and dessert, while these are simply two very different meals. Dinner is a meal, a meal should be full of fantastic bombastic flavours, while dessert is more of a palette cleanser, it's something sweet and easy that you end the night with, it's something to be enjoyed by anyone and everyone.

This is not a silly game. because I am right and you are wrong. I can prove my claims and I have, while you cannot. This can only mean that I am correct about dairy being a culinary crutch, while you are simply a person that cannot accept the truth for what it is.

I implore you, please, challenge yourself and cook without dairy. You will enjoy your food more, you will enjoy cooking more, it will be a much more creative process for you, and you will ultimately have more fun in the kitchen, not only cooking your food but eating it too.

>>16890539
No, I am just an ordinary person.

>>16890711
Cream of mushroom soup is a fundamentally flawed dish, as it features dairy, which is a culinary crutch, as a main component of the meal. You were simply mistaken in making cream of mushroom soup in the first place.

>>16891108
I am not lactose intolerant, I simply believe dairy is a culinary crutch and should not be used in any real dishes.

>>16891132
Italian """"cuisine"""" is simply very over rated. A large portion of Italian cuisine seems to revolve around these few ingredients: wheat, tomato, dairy, and some assorted herbs. Italian """"cuisine"""" is simply very boring because of this fact...

>>16891132
...I know not every single Italian """"dish"""" is comprised of what, tomato, dairy, and assorted herbs, as I have mentioned earlier in the thread, an Italian dish I would regard as part of an Italian cuisine, would be ossobuco. It is a very well made dish with great flavour, it does not feature tomato, dairy or wheat, which truly sets it apart from the rest of Italian """"cuisine"""", which honestly, I find kind of pathetic. But I am glad the Italians made ossobuco. It may be a simple meal, but it is very good.

>>16891133
No, that poster must find some meals which are not centred around dairy, the culinary crutch. If that poster was to make a dish that usually has a small amount of dairy, say, some sort of stew that people choose to mix some kind of dairy into, and they were to substitute that dairy for something else, and they were able to balance the flavours correctly, perhaps incorporate some new flavours, then they would truly be on the path to becoming a good cook. But as long as you are making foods that contain dairy, or are centred around dairy, you will never be a real """"cook"""".

>>16891956
>mass replying
>asperger's syndrome (at best) talking point
>"I am just an ordinary person"

>>16891996
Yes, I am an ordinary person. I suppose the only thing that is different about me is I have a true passion for cuisine, and I know what that does and does not include.

>>16886391
im pretty white but i had a friend in primary school who was SUPER white like probably the whitest people on earth, these are the mother fuckers people talk about when they say white people cant cook or have bland food. i was staying over one night and they made homemade lasagna like they bragged about how good it was and all that and i ate it and struggled to even swallow it like holy fuck what did they do to make it taste like nothing and like garbage at the same time. frozen lasagna tastes amazing compared to that holy fuck. my mum makes some good lasagna though, i dont know if this is common or not but we found that if you make a lasagna and chill it for 24 hours and then cook it and then let it cool down and put it back in the fridge and chill it for another 24 hours and then heat it back up in the oven it tastes waaaaaayyyy better, its like marinating it twice the flavors are so much richer.

>>16882298
>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
Are you fucked in the actual head?

>>16882554
>Opera
fag

>>16892641
You don't have a single clue about Opera, or food, do you? I bet you rely on the culinary crutch that is dairy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C4dsW2SQ_M

>>16884441
i worked in a steakhouse that had a risotto they dumped cream in. i was a dishwasher there and when i left there to go learn to cook at a different restaurant i quickly realized how pathetic such an act is. i learned to make risotto without adding cream.

>>16892676
Risotto is much better without cream. You can add white wine, saffron, all sorts of herbs that impart much better flavour than just "dairy".

>>16891956
his shift started again

>>16892762
Gordon Ramsay knows that even Greek cuisine is superior to Italian """"cuisine"""".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWZarBOizcY

>>16887187
the most intelligent and powerful peoples in history generally drank and ate large amounts of dairy (*whites*, mongolians ignoring the very small handful of africans and some indians)

>>16892867
Dairy may have nutritional value, but you can get that nutritional value from other places too if I'm not mistaken. There is no reason to needlessly ruin an otherwise good dish, with the culinary crutch that is dairy.

>>16882298
>chicken soup is as good with water than stock
stopped reading there

>>16892907
You probably think MSG is cheating, too.

>>16892978
There is no cheating in cooking. MSG is a naturally occurring substance, it's used in cooking more often than people think. I personally feel it's very easy to add too much MSG to a dish, so I use it sparingly, and almost never in its powdered pure form.

>>16892641
You're an uncultured swine and should "touch grass", as they say.

>>16892947
Sure you dont want to keep reading? Its not often we get genuine, unfiltered autism on the /ck/

>>16891956
No matter how much you suffer, I think most would be grateful to not be this person.

>>16893396
Grateful to not be enlightened about the true nature of dairy, that it is a culinary crutch? I honestly don't even know how to reply to this comment. If you have chosen to restrict yourself to boring food, and believe it is what makes you happy, then so be it.

>>16893370
I am just an ordinary person I do not have autism, aspergers, or any other mental conditions. I am completely neurotypical.

>>16883308
Oh fuck that sudden realisation

>>16893398
>>16893401
You are a very deluded. You are right about certain qualities of diary, that yes, they do make things milder. But from there to the conclusion of dairy always being bad in savoury dishes, there's lots of things lacking, while you still claim that your view is a fact. Take for example
>Cream of mushroom soup is a fundamentally flawed dish, as it features dairy, which is a culinary crutch, as a main component of the meal. You were simply mistaken in making cream of mushroom soup in the first place.
Your argument could also be stated something like this:
>My opinion is that mushroom soup is a fundamentally flawed dish, as it features dairy, which in my opinion is a culinary crutch, therefore because it's my opinion, it's a fact"
Your premise is right, dairy does make things milder, no one is arguing that. But from there to your conclusion that dairy is a culinary crutch, there's no real argument other than "my opinion is".

"Dairy is a culinary crutch" does not logically follow from "Dairy makes things taste milder".

>>16893415
And yeah, believing something it's a fact because it's your opinion is retardation.

>>16893415
I'm not deluded at all. It is a fact that dairy reduces flavours in savoury dishes, which is why I refer to it as a culinary crutch. This is an indisputable fact, there is simply nothing to argue against in that regard.

The matter of the fact is, this is not just my opinion. It is a fact. Dairy reduces flavours in savoury dishes. There is no simpler way to put this for you.

The fact that dairy does make flavours milder means it is a culinary crutch, as it is only added to a dish when an inept """"cook"""" feels that the flavours need to be made milder, and they are either lazy, or unable to properly balance flavours themself.

>>16893448
This is a fact not because it is my opinion, but because it is based in reality and it is truthful. Dairy makes flavours milder. Therefore, it is a culinary crutch.

>>16893401
every once in a while, an eccentric with patience and wisdom will calmly work the alcoholic fatbodies of /ck/ into an incredulous lather by expertly and painstakingly arguing something he knows to be true for many days.

out of respect for your courage, I will try one of your ideas, which is to make mashed potatoes with a wine reduction instead of cream. it could be just insane enough to work

dairy autist, what is your opinion on cheeses as appetizers, pairing them with alcohol, cold cuts, vegetables, etc?

>>16889694
Just something I thought I should add as a reply to this post: when you say "pure chocolate" do you mean a bar of milk chocolate? Or perhaps even a bar of 70%-90% dark chocolate? These are things which have had their flavours diluted with dairy, to make it more palatable. This is why it is generally considered a dessert or as an aperitif or a digestif, or even just a little snack.

>>16893475
Get creative. You can use anything. Beetroot juice could be great in a root vegetable mash, such as in a dish like Fläsklägg Med Rotmo (>>16887187).

Remember, food is not only for survival, in our modern times it has become a vehicle for flavour.

If you do decide to go with the white wine reduction in the mashed potatoes, I'd suggest balancing it out with some herbs. I will admit, I've never made that before, but it's simply an idea I had off the top of my head, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, as long as too much wine isn't added, or perhaps if the wine is thickened up a bit to give it a bit of a better consistency for mashed potatoes. I will also admit, I do not particularly enjoy mashed potatoes personally. This isn't something I have personal experience with, when I originally posted it, it was just a way to demonstrate how much creativity is possible when you stop mindlessly throwing dairy into every meal, just because a recipe says so.

>>16893477
They go well together, they're a classic combination. Cheese has its places, charcuterie boards, cheese boards, wine pairings, with fruits, etc.

I suppose I'm not saying to completely eliminate dairy from your diet, I certainly haven't, I mainly consume dairy in dessert form as I feel it's a good palette cleanser and a nice way to end the night.

>>16893468
how is something a crutch when its not improving when its not improving the dish

>>16893538
It's a culinary crutch in the sense that it is used by lazy or incompetent """"cooks"""" to cover up their mistakes, or their lack of cooking knowledge.

>>16889321
>I have olive oils that are infused with flavours
>You do not need to add butter and cream to mashed potatoes, use your imagination. Add stock, or a roux, or a white wine reduction even, if you add some herbs to your mashed potatoes you can honestly make the white wine reduction work very well if you pair it with something good. Hell, even a red wine reduction if you're eating it with a nice hearty beefy meal.

Fucking lol this guy is completely off his hinges jesus ahahaha dont bother responding i will literally just ignore you

does the dairy autist realize not all diary is milk and mozzarella? nigga doesent know about a38 or the bajillion other cheeses lol

>>16882554
""neck yourself""

>>16893578
Some people cannot accept the truth. I suspect you are one of these people. Dairy is a culinary crutch. Your inability to imagine something as simple as mashed potatoes without dairy is proof of this.

>>16893589
I do, and cheeses have their place, but it is not in a nice savoury dish.

>>16893611
I will continue to preach about dairy free cooking, as dairy is a culinary crutch.

>most depressing food facts
carrots dont actually improve your eyesight, they just make my pee orange

>>16893664
You're right, it can stunt flavors and limit one's imagination when you could use something else in its, but honestly you're being your own crutch with your superiority complex and eschewing using the whole thing for the 'crutch' reason - you'll give the "I use it in desserts" statement but you're akin to a picky eater and child who won't eat particular foods because of arbitrary reasons.

So good for you, dairy is a crutch and I'll still use it when I feel like it along with alternatives when I want to. We all bow to your infinite wisdom o' wise master of cooks, teacher of all that is holy and secret in the ancient art of cooking.

>>16893755
I cannot think of a single dish which would not be made better by either excluding dairy or substituting it for something with more flavour, with the except of dishes that are centred around dairy or feature dairy, and I would argue those dishes are fundamentally flawed.

Dairy is a culinary crutch. You can use it all you like, that's a decision for you to make, but just know you could become a better cook if you were to stop using dairy where it wasn't necessary. There are better ways to add flavours to a meal, rather than take away.

>>16883416
If you don’t move to California or New York or Miami, you won’t. Anywhere in indiana you can live in a 2 bed 1bath apartment and save for a home on a 12/hr salary which is typically the lowest wage around. I can get you started at 7 factories or distribution centers in Indianapolis for 18+ an hour. Financial freedom is a privilege and you can earn it with diligence.

>>16884176
>unbaked cheesecake is 90% as good as baked cheesecake
I feel like they're strong in their own respective little fields. One is quick to make and refreshing, the other you get a nicer dense texture.

>>16882298
>unbaked cheesecake is 90% as good as baked cheesecake
Maybe about 75%
>frozen lasagna is 90% as good as home made lasagna
Depends on brand and how shit you are at cooking, most I've had compared to my own is probably about 50-60%
>chicken soup made with water is 90% as good as chicken soup made with stock
False
>frozen fries are better than homemade fries
False
>plain boiled chicken soup is 90% as good as chicken soup started with a mirepoix
False
>frozen dumpling are just as good as restaurant dumplings
Depends on the brand and how shit your restaurant
>inb4 you can't cook
Being able to cook and being actually good or at least halfway decent at cooking are not the same thing.

>>16886858
Who the FUCK is making food aimlessly and has no idea what they’re cooking? You live in a fantasy world. No one has EVER started making food without any intention of what the final product will be. You think chefs just make shit and then freak out because they don’t know why sauce to put in it? You’re not autistic. You’re literally schizo. Get help from medical professionals.

ITT: we feed a troll until bump limit

You're all retards.

>>16884441
Holy fuck you sound like the most insufferable cooklet ever.
You’re trying to hard to channel “le angry chef with uncompromising standards” but you’re really just a screeching faggot.
Holy shit your dad dodged a bullet by leaving your mom and your worthless faggot ass.

>>16893810
You misunderstand my post, or perhaps it's my English, it isn't my first language but I am studying.

No one walks into the kitchen, grabs a saucepan and fills it with random ingredients then thinks "oh no what have I done!?"

They intend to make a specific dish, but part way through they make a mistake, and they panic. They think, "oh no, how can I cover up my mistake? I know, I'll put some dairy in there to mellow the flavours out.". That is what a culinary crutch is.

>>16893822
No you dumb dick. They intended to make exactly what they intended to make. It’s not a mistake and then they freak out and pour in milk. How could you possibly be this stupid? Are you a chef? Do you run a lactose intolerant restaurant? I don’t believe you are allowed to work with food.

>>16893791
baked almost requires some kind of drizzle/coulis
whereas nonbaked is good on its own

>>16893822
haha milk makes your poopoo wet

>>16893468
So your argument is:

p1: Dairy reduces flavours in savoury dishes
p2: Dairy is only added to a dish when an inept """"cook"""" feels that the flavours need to be made milder, and they are either lazy, or unable to properly balance flavours themself.
q: Therefore it's a culinary crutch

Now we have a logical argument where the conclusion follows from the premises. But to be considered truth, the premises has to be true too. No one is disputing the first premise, it's the second premise no one else in this thread has shown support for.

To prove p2 wrong is as simple as me saying that I sometimes add dairy because it's delicious and I want that flavour. For example I love white fish with beurre blanc. In this case, you will taste "the pure fish flavour" less, but you add a lot of flavour too.

It does not follow logically that because dairy reduces flavours in savoury dishes, therefore it's a culinary crutch.

>>16893480
>when you say "pure chocolate" do you mean a bar of milk chocolate?
No, I mean high cocoa bars without added dairy.

>>16893891
If they intend to make a dish which features dairy or is centred around dairy, then they are fundamentally bad """"chefs"""", this is because dairy is a culinary crutch and dilutes the flavours of the dish. If they weren't fundamentally bad """"chefs"""", they would try impart more flavour onto the dish, not take flavour away from the dish. This is why they add dairy. Because they are either lazy, do not know how to properly cook, or they have ruined their own palette.

>>16893911
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16893961
I'm beginning to think people do not show support for the second premise because I am upsetting them, they are only just now realising what they have been doing with their own food. They are in a state of shock it seems, they are lashing out in an agressive manner. This is because they want me to stop preaching the truth about the culinary crutch that is dairy, but I will not. Just because people don't accept the second premise doesn't mean it isn't true, it only means people aren't accepting the premise.

You have only proved that you have negatively affected your own palette with the over consumption of dairy in savoury meals by making that statement. It is a fact that dairy reduces flavours in a dish, making it a culinary crutch. If someone desires the """"flavour"""" of dairy in a savoury dish, something is wrong with the dish, or the way it is prepared.

Do you mean cocoa nibs? I am searching and cannot find what a high cocoa bar without added dairy is, only cocoa nibs.

>>16882709
>”dur I know real Italian cuisine!”
>posts heavily French influenced dish
Faggot

>>16894004
>It is a fact that dairy reduces flavours in a dish, making it a culinary crutch.
If I have fresh cod that I poach it salted water, it's pretty flavourless by itself. Therefore making beurre blanc will add flavour. Just curiuos, are you from a country were butter and other dairy are generally not used for savoury dishes?
>You have only proved that you have negatively affected your own palette with the over consumption of dairy in savoury meals by making that statement.
I would say I most of the times don't add dairy to savoury dishes. If my palate was ruined, wouldn't I be dependent on always adding it?
>Just because people don't accept the second premise doesn't mean it isn't true, it only means people aren't accepting the premise.
And just because you accept the second premise, doesn't mean it's true either, it only means that you accept the premise.
>Do you mean cocoa nibs? I am searching and cannot find what a high cocoa bar without added dairy is, only cocoa nibs.
Lindt for example, they have high cocoa bars without added dairy.

We have to make a deal guys. We have to make sure we bump this thread with a dairy centered recipe at least twice daily. I think if we can keep him contained here, and study his habits for a while, we can find a cure for super autism. As long as we keep him occupied and contained here, the rest of /ck should be safe. We can't let this brand of autism spread to the rest of the board.

Thread highjacked by reddit fags

>>16894075
If you have fresh cod and poach it in salt water, that is simply a bad dish, the same way adding dairy, the culinary crutch, would also be a bad dish. I will not say which country I am from.

If you decide to add dairy to a savoury dish at all I would argue that your palette has been negatively affected, or that you're a lazy """"cook"""", or that you don't know how to balance flavours. Who knows, I might expand my theory further eventually and come up with more reasons someone may decide to add dairy to food, but I can say for certain that it is a bad choice.

I accept the premise because I know it is correct, others do not accept the premise because they do not like the idea that I am correct.

It would appear these lindt excellence 99% chocolate bars are made with cocoa butter. It is a dessert I suppose. I would argue that cocoa butter would serve the same purpose as milk in regular chocolate in this regard, but as it is a dessert it does not bother me, it is okay for a dessert to have a mellower flavour, as I see them partly as a palette cleanser. That's one of the reasons chocolate is such a great dessert, chocolate is a great palette cleanser.

>>16894110
I am 100% neurotypical, I am just an average person. You could walk by me on the street and you would not realise it. I do not like these rumours that I have autism.

>>16894203
>If you have fresh cod and poach it in salt water, that is simply a bad dish, the same way adding dairy, the culinary crutch, would also be a bad dish.
How would you prepare fresh cod?
>I will not say which country I am from.
Didn't ask what country, only if you were from a country that doesn't traditionally use dairy in savoury dishes or not.

>I accept the premise because I know it is correct, others do not accept the premise because they do not like the idea that I am correct.
>I am 100% neurotypical, I am just an average person. You could walk by me on the street and you would not realise it. I do not like these rumours that I have autism.
There is something contradictory in this. Anyway, everyone knows that it's easy to make something taste if not excellent, then at least not bad if you add lots of butter and cream. I too oppose abusing dairy. But I'm not categorical about it and and absolutely think it has it's place. Especially for lean fish. Excited to hear how you would prepare fresh cod.

>>16894232
I have never cooked cod, it isn't a fish that is common here. The only seafood I really eat is salmon, tuna,, mussels, crab, squid, sometimes shark... I may be forgetting others but I'm not really sure. I remember I saw on a cartoon once that there is a dish named Lutefisk, apparently it is repulsive to many people but a certain character enjoyed it. That may be interesting to try, or even to take that recipe and try evolve it into something more palatable, if it really is as repulsive as I've been lead to believe. I'm not sure what the recipe Lutefisk even is though, it could contain dairy as a main component of the meal for all I know.

I suppose I would probably try bake or fry it, I generally enjoy a bit of spice in my seafood, so I would add chillis, garlic, shallots if I have any, otherwise green onions. I would serve it with a fresh garden salad, nothing special in that regard, just a little dressing. White wine generally goes good with seafood, perhaps it could be braised.

Could even make it into a paella of some kind, there are many regional variations of paella, I wouldn't be surprised if one of them incorporated cod.

Even smoking and drying cod might be good.

I wish I had a better answer for you in regards to the cod but I simply don't ever remember eating or cooking any.

>>16882301
i wonder if this is the first time that sentence has ever been said

>I have never cooked cod, it isn't a fish that is common here. The only seafood I really eat is salmon, tuna,, mussels, crab, squid, sometimes shark.
So you practically don't have experience with white fish, some which taste next to nothing.
>>16894283
>I suppose I would probably try bake or fry it, I generally enjoy a bit of spice in my seafood, so I would add chillis, garlic, shallots if I have any, otherwise green onions.
This would completely overpower the very subtle taste of fresh cod. Fresh cod taste next to nothing. So why is this ok, but not beurre blanc? Beurre blanc is made by cooking down white wine, vinegar in shallots and emulsfied with butter and optionally some cream or creme fraiche. This would also overpower the very subtle taste of fresh cod of course. It's just not consistent that you claim it's ok to overpower fresh cod with chili, garlic and shallots, but not to overpower it with beurre blanc.
>Lutefisk
Lutefisk taste almost nothing. That's why strong tasting sides are common. Traditionally melted butter was prefered, today it's more common with bacon and bacon fat.
>Even smoking and drying cod might be good.
Saltdried cod is very common, just dried a little less common. The maturing process will develop flavours, much in the same manner that prosciutto develops flavour through maturing.

>>16883405
>simpposting on 4chan of all places
NGMI

>>16894283
>salmon, tuna,, mussels, crab, squid, sometimes shark

>>16882298
you can't taste

>>16894347
No, shark would be the closest I have had to white fish.

If fresh cod has no taste/next to no taste I would not eat it, it sounds like a boring fish honestly. It sounds very similar to shark. I would substitute the cod for salmon or tuna personally, they do have flavour and lend themselves well to interesting combinations of spices.

You asked me a question about something I did not know anything about and are not happy with my answer? I'm sorry, but you can't argue like that, that is simply arguing in bad faith. You cannot expect me to give you information about something I have never had any experience with, that is just silly. Before I knew cod tasted like nothing, when I thought it had some flavour, I would have cooked it the same way I cooked any other fish. I do not see the point in eating flavourless food, or even cooking with it, as it only detracts from a meal, this is the reason I only eat shark sometimes, it is not the most interesting meal, but it is nice on occasion.

Beurre blanc is not okay because it uses a large amount of dairy. I just looked at the first recipe I saw, I'm sure there are many variations, but the recipe I happened upon used more butter than white wine and vinegar combined. This would reduce the flavours of the other components of the beurre blanc. That and, I simply would not cook a fish that is so flavourless personally, I have better more flavourful options available to me which I would prefer.

Once again, as I have never had any personal experience with cod, I did not know that simple herbs and spices would overpower the """"taste"""" of this almost tasteless fish.

Cod and beurre blanc simply sounds like a flawed dish honestly, it features too much dairy, and the main component of the meal itself is almost flavourless. To cook cod and beurre blanc would be a mistake in my opinion.

I do not know anything about Lutefisk either. From what I saw on this tv show, it smelled bad and was repulsive, so I assumed that it...

>>16894347
...would have some decent flavour at least. The fact that it has to be served with strong tasting sides is just testament to the fact that it is a boring dish, which I suspect is more to do with the cod itself rather than the cooking method.

If you can develop the flavours of cod by salt-drying it, I suppose that is how I would cook cod. That is the only way I know of cooking cod to improve it's flavours.

>>16894501
I am not Slovenian or male.

>I am not... male
uh-oh, bump limit here we come

...would have some decent flavour at least. The fact that it has to be served with strong tasting sides is just testament to the fact that it is a boring dish, which I suspect is more to do with the cod itself rather than the cooking method.

If you can develop the flavours of cod by salt-drying it, I suppose that is how I would cook cod. That is the only way I know of cooking cod to improve it's flavours.

>>16894501
I am not Slovenian.

>>16889151
I'll admit I'm not a good cook, but damn I love cream. And butter. People who dilute the cream and butter too much ruin everything.

>>16894603
>If fresh cod has no taste/next to no taste I would not eat it, it sounds like a boring fish honestly.
White fish usually has a very mild flavour and is very lean. Therefore flavourful sauces are very well liked for white fish. It becomes a vessel for fatty rich sauces. To many people beurre blanc taste delicious, so it's a natural choice.

This seems wrong to you because you happen to just not like dairy in savoury dishes. That's your subjective opinion, and can't be elevated to a universal truth.

There is a big problem with such universalism. People and cultures adapt to the geographic conditions around them. In my part of the world, fish and especially cod and dairy have been staples for a long time. It was never a question to "pick some other food than what's easily obtainable from the geographic conditions", that's a relative new privilege for a relatively small portion of the worlds population. You had to make something good out of what you had.

Cultures and cuisines developed around the local availability, and so did the people in those areas. This is why northern Europe uses much dairy, while southern Europe uses less and prefer olive oil over butter. These are preferences that have developed over generations. Genetics and epigenetics in populations will differ based on geographical conditions too. What is the best diet for one person, might not be the best diet for other person.

Northern people used to hate olive oil when they started travelling to southern parts of Europe. We could just as well say that Southern Europeans only use olive oil because their palates has been ruined by it. And it would be just as silly argument as your.

If you started learning more about other cuisines, maybe you would stop being so categorical. Not having experience with white fish is obviously a big hole in your culinary knowledge, and if you start learning how to use it, you would maybe start having a more nuanced view on it all.

>>16894610
>>16894626
>>16894710
In general you seem to need to appreciate other cultures more, maybe then you'd understand that arguments of the type "because it's my opinion it's universally true" is just silly.

>>16894610
>I am not Slovenian or male.
That's very interesting. Autism often goes undetected for girls, because autistic girls exhibit very different behaviour to autistic boys.

>>16894004
haha
ooooohhh milky milky poo poo

>>16894710
Yes, people do enjoy foods with little to no flavour, and I would say these people have ruined their own palettes. Food is meant to be flavourful and enjoyed, it is not meant to be near flavourless. I would simply regard that as a bad dish, or bad food in general. There's a reason I don't eat shark very often, because it really doesn't have much flavour compared to other kinds of seafood.

Dairy in savoury dishes is simply a bad choice, as it reduces the flavours of the rest of the components of the meal. If you are cooking something that has very little flavour, I'm not sure that hindering the rest of the meal is the best way to cook that food. If I was in a position where I only had cod, I would not try to accentuate the flavours of the cod, as it has little to no flavour, I would use it as a vehicle for flavour instead. Cod sounds like a blank slate for flavour if anything, to try play around something with little to no flavour just sounds like a boring cooking experience, and a boring eating experience too. You could make that cod into any flavour you desire, and you decide to go with the most boring option possible? That is simply bad cooking through and through.

We do not live in that world anymore, we don't have to limit ourselves to what is immediately available. We have the ability to go down to a supermarket or grocery store, and make new dishes with better flavours. It's simply culinary evolution. To hamper yourself on the basis of tradition is a silly mistake. You would enjoy cooking and food more if you were able to open your eyes to what is available to you, not to simply repeat what has been done. There is no innovation there, there is no creativity, and ultimately it is a much more boring dish than what it could have been.

Some foods and flavours are an acquired taste. I can say for a fact that I did not enjoy every food I enjoy now since I was born...

>>16893908
No it doesn't, dumbass. Stop trying to save your shitty thread by putting more goalposts up. You know and I know that they're perfectly fine for different reasons. Shut up.

>>16894710
...If you grow up eating a certain food, you will have been exposed to that food over many years and would gain an appreciation and understanding for it, even if it has strong or complex flavours. This has nothing to do with genetics or epigenetics. It is simply exposure to something which you are not familiar with. You could almost compare this to a dangerous sport, like sky diving or just regular diving. It may seem scary at first, but once you have experienced it for yourself, and realise it isn't so bad, you will gain an appreciation and understanding for the sport. You might not even enjoy the sport the first time, you may go sky diving once and still be so scared that you never want to do it again, until you try it a few more times, which is very similar to trying new and different foods.

If white fish has so little flavour, I honestly would not eat it. It simply sounds like a waste of a good meal, which is why I do not eat shark very often.

>>16894800
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16894830
they are significantly weaker without something on the top
there is no shame in it, both are great
but imagine carrot cake without icing
or a lemon cake without a simple syrup

>>16894832
>you will gain an appreciation and understanding
Maybe you could try dairy and over time build a lactose tolerance

>>16886743
>any real chef
i studied under Gaston LeNôtre and Paul Bocuse, they both used dairy in their food. you're a retard

>>16886743
>Not sure which one you're talking about there are two different herbs in that picture, but I'm not sure what either of them are
>real chef
if you cant recognize thyme not only are you not a real chef i also believe youve never been in a kitchen in your fucking life

>>16894715
>maybe then you'd understand that arguments of the type "because it's my opinion it's universally true" is just silly.
stfu, being opinionated is a prerequisite to being heard on the internet, otherwise you're shouted down by angry retards.

>boo hoo hoo anyone who beats me in an argument is from reddit! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>16894926
you either stop posting unheard
or post long enough to become an angry retard

>>16894715
I am not autistic.

>>16894865
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16894900
A professional chef has to cook for others, they cannot only consider their own tastes, they have to consider people that have only ever eaten dishes that have their flavours drowned out by dairy.

>>16894900
I am not a chef I only cook in my own home. I do not know every single variety of every single herb.

>>16895005
poopy poopy milky poo

>>16895220
I have told multiple people (or is it just you?), multiple times, in this thread alone, that I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16894804
>Cod sounds like a blank slate for flavour if anything, to try play around something with little to no flavour just sounds like a boring cooking experience, and a boring eating experience too. You could make that cod into any flavour you desire, and you decide to go with the most boring option possible? That is simply bad cooking through and through.
Yes, it is a and beurre blanc is not a boring option. Your palate must be ruined for you to think otherwise.
>We do not live in that world anymore, we don't have to limit ourselves to what is immediately available. We have the ability to go down to a supermarket or grocery store, and make new dishes with better flavours. It's simply culinary evolution. To hamper yourself on the basis of tradition is a silly mistake.
Locally produced food will always be better than imports. You have a lot to learn. One wants to use the freshest best local ingredients possible. Those are also the most healthy for the people that have lived in the areas for hundreds or thousands of years, because they have adapted too that diet. There's nothing wrong with variety and using imports some times, or traveling and learning about other cuisines, but you live where you live. Cuisines are constantly re-invented on basis of locally available ingredients. There's no reason things flown around half the globe should become staples in Northern European cuisines.

>>16894804
>>16895462
>...If you grow up eating a certain food, you will have been exposed to that food over many years ands would gain an appreciation and understanding for it, even if it has strong or complex flavours. This has nothing to do with genetics or epigenetics.
I'm not talking about just growing up with certain foods, I'm talking about cultures, people, that over generations have adapted to their locally available foods. Why are Nordic people tall? We had dairy and if not lots of meat lots of fish. We are adapted to eat such foods. You can't have had much dairy because if you had your palate would have been "ruined" as you call it. Using your own arguments, your palate has been ruined by olive oil. Fat will, like dairy milden/flatten food and make you less able to taste the nuances. So if we extend your arguents, fat is a crutch.

>>16895429
uh oh, sounds like someone didnt drink their milk this morning
(because it makes their poo time messy)

>>16882554
Completely agree with this retard. Would much rather have milk on the side. Also nice Italian can be far more complex but 99% of it is just cheese, sauce, and carb. Even pizza is just pasta with bread instead of noodles. Very boring cuisine indeed

>>16895542
>Also nice Italian can be far more complex but 99% of it is just cheese, sauce, and carb.
t.thinks olive garden is representative of italian cuisine.

>>16893043
Yeah, you sound like a nut case.

>>16894293
Well I don’t see any record of it online. Explosions are apparently common kek

>>16895542
>pasta
>noodles
Retard.

>>16895462
Beurre blanc does sound like a boring option, because it includes dairy, which is a culinary crutch. If you were to cook cod without beurre blanc, and decided to add some interesting herbs and spices, it would be a much better meal, because it would have more pronounced and subtle flavours than just dairy. It would be a better experience.

Locally produced food is not always better than imports, it depends on where you live and what is available. Many island nations simply don't have the room to farm, and some countries simply cannot produce the required amount of food to feed their populous. Since the 15th century, people have travelled the world in search of new herbs and spices, in fact, in Indonesia there is even a small group of islands nicknamed The Spice Islands because of this very reason. The desire for new and exciting flavours has led people all over the world for centuries, and now we have access to all these spices and herbs in a much more accessible way, I feel that is a much better tradition to follow.

People can adapt to a diet, but that is not related to genetics. People adapt to all kinds of foods from all sorts of locations, it is not as if, if you are born in Greenland for example, you would grow up having experienced hákarl, and it would be normal for you to eat, maybe not every day, but it would be a taste that you are familiar with, while if you were to take someone from a completely different country, that had never had hákarl, it would take them some time to become used to the taste of hákarl, and eventually they may enjoy it (it really isn't the best tasting food, but it is only an example).

I have never said any imports should become a staple ingredient in another culture, but there is nothing particularly wrong with that. For example, cinnamon is a featured ingredient in baked goods from Northern Europe, around Christmas time especially from what I know.

>>16895466
No, I'm sorry but that is simply incorrect. Food...

...can be part of culture, but people do not genetically adapt to food, this is on the same tier as psuedoscience. People become accustomed to food by eating it regularly, they are not born with an innate desire for certain local foods. What if you took a baby that was born in WW2 Japan that was born to a Japanese mother, but had an American father? These children were often given up for adoption, and they were adopted out to foreign countries. Do you think these children had an innate craving for sushi, or ramen? That would be silly, because culture is not passed on genetically. You may as well claim that these children would have an innate knowledge of using chopsticks, or how to perform a tea ceremony, or even read Japanese.

It has been proven that height is mostly to do with nutrition, especially during child hood. You do not eat dairy, meat and fish and become tall. You eat nutritious food from the time you are a small child until you have finished growing, and as long as your genetics do not predispose you to having a smaller stature, you will generally come out to a height of around 180cm, or around 6 feet. This has happened in Korea, Japan, and richer regions of China in modern times, while historically they were all very short people. Would you claim that these countries have had such a shift in their diet that over 3-4 generations they are gaining this much height over only a few generations? That would be insanity.

There is no such thing as genetic adaptation to food, because if that were true, there would be genetic adaptation to culture. People would have an innate knowledge of their own culture without being exposed to it.

You can retrain your palette over time, the same way you can learn to tolerate spicier chilli...

...It isn't a controversial topic, it is very well known. If what you were saying about genetic adaptation to food was true, people from countries that are not South American (where chilli originated from) would not be able to handle the spiciness of chilli, which is wrong.

You cannot ruin a palette with olive oil because there are no dishes where olive oil is the main feature, or a large component. You do not douse food in olive oil, and if you do, you are using it incorrectly.

If you use too much fat in your food, the same way you use too much olive oil, you will milden/flatten your food, which is why it is important to taste food as you cook it, to properly balance the flavours. This is a part of real cooking, cooking without dairy, which is a culinary crutch. The difference between olive oil and fats is that dairy is widely used in dishes as a feature of the dish or a main component, such as in beurre blanc, while olive oil and fats are not main features or components of dishes. You are trying to draw a false equivalency.

>>16895507
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16895570
I am completely neurotypical.

>>16895662
Ah yes, NTs, well known for proclaiming their sanity and using the word "neurotypical"

>>16895771
I am completely sane. Do you prefer the word sane?

>>16895662
I'm beginning to come around to the notion that you aren't trolling, and you actually are so cripplingly autistic that you believe what you're posting.
Even if you were trolling, continuing to do so for days on end is evidence enough of severe mental illness or at the very least lifelong social dysfunction.

>>16895662
based retard

>>16895785
I am not autistic or trolling, I am simply trying to help people eat better food. As I have said before, people are shocked by this, and they are lashing out. I think this entire thread is proof enough of that.

Dairy is a culinary crutch and always will be. Dairy has its place and uses, but it is not in a savoury meal.

>>16895794
I am completely sane.

>>16895795
Pic related

>>16895662
is it like milky poo or pooey milk?

>>16895804
Just because you claim something, does not make it true. The same way a poster in this thread claimed that affinity for food is passed on genetically, that was not true, the same way accusations of me being autistic, or in anyway not completely neurotypical are not true.

>>16895806
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16895647
>Beurre blanc does sound like a boring option, because it includes dairy, which is a culinary crutch.
You are just parroting yourself.
>Many island nations simply don't have the room to farm, and some countries simply cannot produce the required amount of food to feed their populous.
Not talking about those islands or nations that doesn't produce enough food. These will still have some kind of traditional staples.
>. For example, cinnamon is a featured ingredient in baked goods from Northern Europe
Spices aren't staples.
>...can be part of culture, but people do not genetically adapt to food, this is on the same tier as psuedoscience.
The japanese have very little osteoporosis, even though they don't drink dairy. If they came to a Nordic country and adopted their diet, they would probably get health problems, like is very very common with immigrants adopting the local cuisine of their new nation. Not saying changed food habits are the only reason here. Some people will get increased levels of cholesterol from their diet, most won't. This depends on genes. Humans are very adaptive, but different diets suits different people and it happens that the diet of your forefathers often suit you best.
>You cannot ruin a palette with olive oil because there are no dishes where olive oil is the main feature, or a large component. You do not douse food in olive oil, and if you do, you are using it incorrectly.
Confit de Bacalhau, just one example. Literally bacalhau totally covered by olive oil and cooked for a long time.
>If you use too much fat in your food, the same way you use too much olive oil, you will milden/flatten your food, which is why it is important to taste food as you cook it, to properly balance the flavours. This is a part of real cooking, cooking without dairy, which is a culinary crutch.
Of course, you seem to not have learned to properly balance food with dairy.

>>16895647
>>16895814
>The difference between olive oil and fats is that dairy is widely used in dishes as a feature of the dish or a main component, such as in beurre blanc, while olive oil and fats are not main features or components of dishes. You are trying to draw a false equivalency.
How is pouring olive oil on top of fish, different from having beurre blanc on top of it?

>>16895813
Did you know that autistic people who go undiagnosed their whole lives are still autistic, even though nobody ever tells them they are? Seems to me you might not know that.

>>16895813
Did you know that lactose intolerant people who go undiagnosed their whole lives are still lactose intolerant, even though what happens in their toilet tells them they are? Seems to me you might not know that.

>>16895777
You sound like the mom from Joker

>>16895814
I am not parroting myself, I am explaining to you that beurre blanc is a fundamentally flawed component of a dish.

Yes they will have traditional staples, but to only eat these traditional staples would be silly. There is a large range of amazing flavours that is accessible to just about anyone now, to ignore those in favour of a tradition which existed long ago and has been replaced by the tradition of exploration, inquisitivity, and the desire for newer and better things is once again just silly.

Spices can become part of a cultures food, it is not a staple food that is relied on for nutrition, but a spice that is flown in from half way across the world can become a part of another countries food culture.

Dairy is not the only source of calcium, there is no reason Japan would have higher rates of osteoporosis than any other country. If anyone from a country where 70%~ of the population has lactose intolerant travelled to a new country and began eating their foods that featured dairy or it was a prominent component of their dishes, of course they would become sick. As you said, this depends on genes. This has nothing to do with forefathers, it is purely genetics. If a Japanese person was to have a child with someone from Northern Europe, that child would be less likely to have lactose intolerance. This is not to do with their forefathers, it is purely genetics. Or perhaps you are using the word forefathers in place of the word genetics?

I've never heard of this dish, and for good reason I believe. I could only find a single recipe that was in English, and the recipes that I did see in Portuguese were poorly rated...

...This dish appears to be pieces of salted cod poached in olive oil, it is then removed from the oil, and the olive oil is infused with spices, herbs and citrus juice, and is used as a sauce. The only recipe I could find in English is not totally covered in olive oil and cooked for a long time, but as I have said before in this thread, there are many variations to recipes, this is just the one I found. I must say, if someone does decide to cook this Confit de Bacalhau the way you have described, the dish would be fundamentally flawed, as that would be too much olive oil.

You have ignored the sentence after that. As I said before, olive oil and fats are not major components to a dish like dairy is, which is what makes dairy a culinary crutch.

>>16895818
The olive oil in Confit de Bacalhau appears to be used as a sauce, it is not used in the same way as the sauce in beurre blanc appears to be used. I could not find any pictures, but I did find this video, and this dish does not look as bad as I thought it did, you painted a very ugly image of this dish, when in reality it looks quite delicate, it could definitely be improved upon though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuS8t1srnQ

>>16895819
I am not autistic, I am completely neurotypical.

>>16895845
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16895882
I don't watch superhero movies, I'm not sure who the mother from Joker is.

when this retarded thread dies due to all the (you)s this """"""""neurotypical""""""""" guru of all that is cooking is getting what will happen to him? Does he ascend into the food heaven free from all these dairy consuming heathens or will he remain in a cave waiting for those who seek out his wisdom?

>>16895902
>Yes they will have traditional staples, but to only eat these traditional staples would be silly. There is a large range of amazing flavours that is accessible to just about anyone now, to ignore those in favour of a tradition which existed long ago and has been replaced by the tradition of exploration, inquisitivity, and the desire for newer and better things is once again just silly.
Exactly what I said.
>This has nothing to do with forefathers, it is purely genetics.
You're genes depend on forefathers. People have different genetics depending on forefathers genetics. At some place in time humanity evolved new traits through genetics, and if you're forefather doesn't have the variation, you won't either.
>You have ignored the sentence after that. As I said before, olive oil and fats are not major components to a dish like dairy is, which is what makes dairy a culinary crutch.
Pouring some olive oil on fish is just as big component as having some beurre blanc on top. You don't need a lot of it you know.
>The olive oil in Confit de Bacalhau appears to be used as a sauce, it is not used in the same way as the sauce in beurre blanc appears to be used.
Pouring olive on on top of fish is exact analog to putting beurre blanc on top.
>you painted a very ugly image of this dish, when in reality it looks quite delicate, it could definitely be improved upon though.
I just gave a very short description of it. To infuse the oil with flavour is naturally something you'd do. Also the recipe in your link uses a lot of oil. Maybe I was too literal when saying completely covered, I'd be find with the amount he used acceptable, which is a lot of oil still.

>>16895909
does butter make you poo more or less than milk makes you poo?

>>16895947
he tries cheese for the first time and poos himself to death probably

>>16895947
I'm considering starting a no dairy general, for the purpose of sharing recipes and showing others that you can make much more interesting food, have more fun in the kitchen, and even be a bit healthier if you exclude dairy from your savoury dishes

>>16895955
You said that local food is the best. Why would someone substitute what is the best for something that is inferior? I am telling you that you are wrong in that regard, that local food is not always best. This could be due to a number of reasons, anything as simple from a shortage of food, or it isn't available, all the way to not having enough herbs or spices available locally to make interesting flavour combinations. Locally in the sense of the word that the food product is produced in that country

So you are using the word forefathers in place of the word genetics? Are you still claiming that predisposition for food is passed on genetically? That the food your ancestors ate is what you are naturally predisposed to prefer, before ever eating it?

Every """"dish"""" I have seen of beurre blanc served with cod has had a very large amount of the sauce, compared to this confit de bacalhau, which appears to not have much of this sauce at all. You have to keep in the mind, the beurre blanc is dairy based, so it naturally will diminish the flavours of anything added to it. There's a reason you can find olive oils infused with other flavours commercially, while if you're looking for dairy products infused with flavours the same way, you'll have a much harder time finding them.

It is not an analogue for using dairy, they are simply too different. They are both sauces yes, but not all sauces are equal.

It does not use very much oil at all for the final dish. When the dish is being simmered in oil, that may be a lot of oil, but not all of that oil is consumed. That oil is used the same way oil is used for deep frying food, it is used to cook the food, the oil the fish was cooked in is not part of the dish.

>>16896007
I am not lactose intolerant.

>>16896014
You answer questions like an autist. Fucking get over yourself, man.

>>16896012
that sounds like a great idea - I implore you to make a general like that. Would inspire folks to think outside the box, along with pissing people off so much.

>>16896012
>You said that local food is the best. Why would someone substitute what is the best for something that is inferior?
You are thinking very binarily,That is yes/no or either/or. You also seem to fail to grasp the concept of variety. I didn't say to only eat local foods. I didn't say to replace all food with foreign food. Local foods tend to be fresher. Distance and time to the market matters. For fish this should be obvious. Of course, we are progressing technologically. Much innovation has happened here especially with salmon, but salmon is a fish that can get better with a tiny bit of maturing. For fresh cod for example, it's way harder and you can only really have good cod near where it's fished. For fruits and vegetables for exportation, they are often picked unripe to ripen on the way. Also varieties that are made for durability through transport are picked over varieties with the best flavour.
>So you are using the word forefathers in place of the word genetics?
Not. A sentence like "your genes depend on your forefathers genes" would not have the same meaning as "your genes depend on your genes genes".
>Are you still claiming that predisposition for food is passed on genetically?
I didn't claim that, at least I didn't mean to. What I claimed is that humans adapt to their environment and the food they eat. Both epigenetically and in the long term also genetically. And I claim that the diet of your forefathers often is the best diet for you too. I could also have said "the best diet depends on which genes you have". The meaning is pretty much the same, but with slight nuances (you seem to have big trouble with nuances).

>>16896012
>Every """"dish"""" I have seen of beurre blanc served with cod has had a very large amount of the sauce
You realise you can decide yourself how much you want? Pic related. But again, you seem to think to binarily. That is, either a lot of it, or nothing.

>>16896014
oopsy poopsy

>>16896012
>There's a reason you can find olive oils infused with other flavours commercially, while if you're looking for dairy products infused with flavours the same way, you'll have a much harder time finding them.
Yes, olive oils have long shelf life, milk doesn't. It's not because milk can't be infused with flavour. Think of bay leaf and nutmeg in bechamel.

>>16896146
Yep, so true. Preservatives are flavor. You heard it here first, folks.

this is a good ass thread

qrd on all the poo remarksm

>>16889243
Lmaooo exactly. These fucking idiots are just very autistic.

I'm so glad I got to experience the birth of a new meme again. Every time, it's like watching a baby suckle for the first time, to taste that first drop of sweet life sustaining fluid known as formula, not milk. Never milk.

>Because dairy is a culinary crutch.

>>16896066
I am not autistic.

>>16896081
Thank you, I do not intend to upset anyone, only to try help others improve their own cooking ability, and ultimately their own food.

>>16896116
That dish appears to have no sauce at all, I would not say it has any beurre blanc at all

>>16896144
I am not lactose intolerant

>>16896146
That may be true, but it is not as if items with a short shelf life are not sold. If there truly was a demand for dairy infused with bay leaf or nutmeg, it would be sold, but it is not. There is a reason for this.

>>16897718
You're insufferable and completely lack self awareness.

>>16896107
I thinking logically, not binarily. I encourage variety, I encourage everyone to do more with their food, not to dilute the flavours with the culinary crutch that is dairy. When you dilute the flavours of your dishes with dairy, that is when you take all the variety out of that dish.

If you limit yourself to only local food, or to show a penchant for local food over other foods, to become picky in regards to foreign foods, you are only hampering yourself. The same way some people decide to limit themselves to only consuming meals with dairy in them, you are simply missing out on so many more interesting types of flavours and foods.

How fresh food is, is not the absolute pinnacle of cooking. If you had two eggplants, one was fresh, and the other was not, the fresh eggplant would taste better of course. But imagine if you wanted to fry some eggplant for a snack, but you had none available to you fresh. It would at that point become best to simply buy some eggplant from the store, even if it was an imported item.

Yes these things are true, fruits and vegetables are still picked while they are green or unripe, they are treated with nitrogen while in transit and some other gasses occasionally, to encourage them to ripen by the time they arrive at the grocery store or super market.

You would not repeat the same word twice, you would simply say "your genes depend on your genes", which is true, just redundant, and perhaps a little silly.

Humans do adapt to their environment and their diet, this is true. Before our modern time, people were limited to what was local to them, these people would have adjusted to their environment and their diets. If one of these people had moved from one location to anyother, they would eventually adapt to the food and environment of their new location, no matter how different, as long as they ate enough of it...

...It is not a matter of epigenetics or genetics, as culture cannot be passed on epigenetically or genetically.

The diet of your forefathers is not the best diet for anyone. The best diet is something that is balanced nutritionally and meets your daily recommended vitamin/mineral/caloric intake. Genes does not have a role in which food is best for you, as culture is not passed on genetically.

>>16897745
I do not believe I am insufferable or completely lack self awareness.

>>16897804

>>16897893
I like caracals

>>16897977
Stop replying xD

>>16898011
If I listened to people in this thread, I would have made many mistakes. I will not begin now just because you have asked me to.

>>16898082

>>16898126
This is what dairy is, it is an assault on good quality food.

Truly brilliant display of autism, hope someone capped
>Dairy is a culinary crutch.
>I am not autistic, I am completely neurotypical.

>>16898356
Both of those things I have claimed are true, this isn't the spectacle you make it out to be.

>>16897752
>I thinking logically, not binarily.
>If you limit yourself to only local food
I never said to limit anyone to only local food. You thinking it shows that you think binarily and struggle with comprehending nuances. I never said only to eat local food.
>...It is not a matter of epigenetics or genetics, as culture cannot be passed on epigenetically or genetically.
I never claimed that culture is passed on genetically, that's a different question. But that your diet affects your epigenetics is a scientific fact.
>The diet of your forefathers is not the best diet for anyone. The best diet is something that is balanced nutritionally and meets your daily recommended vitamin/mineral/caloric intake. Genes does not have a role in which food is best for you, as culture is not passed on genetically.
p1 culture is not passed on genetically therefore
q genes does not have a role in which food is best for you
The conclusion does not follow from the premise. And you are obviously retarded here. You don't think as logically as you think you do. Genes do have a role in what food is best for you. Best as in most healthy for you. The food that is most healthy for you, will also make you feel the best because your body will be working properly. There is no universal best diet for every human being on the earth. If you think so, you're a complete retard. And don't come with some bullshit like "analyzing your genes can't help you determine the best diet" as I never claimed that. Some diets suits some people better than other, and it's natural to believe that genes play a role here, even though we still don't understand genetics good enough to be able to pinpoint a perfect diet for someone based on genetic analysis, in addition to there being more to it like gut flora.

>>16897752
>>16898580
> in some people, high-cholesterol foods raise blood cholesterol levels. These people make up about 40% of the population and are often referred to as “hyperresponders.” This tendency is considered to be genetic
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter#effects

This clearly suggests that about 40% of the population should be careful with cholesterol, needing different dietary consideration than the others. People predispositioned for other for example diabetes should also take special care.

You might argue that this has nothing to do with how food taste to you. Well that genes affect how we taste food is a scientific fact too. Again, not the only factor but still:
https://theconversation.com/blame-it-on-mum-and-dad-how-genes-influence-what-we-eat-45244
https://www.eatright.org/food/nutrition/healthy-eating/the-role-of-genetics-in-food-taste-and-smells

I wonder what your will respond to this. You are far from as smart as you think you are. You do not think very logically. You have trouble understanding nuances. You have big trouble looking at a bigger picture, you get hung up on small parts of it and usually misunderstand those small parts too.

>>16898580
Why would you use an ingredient that is not as good as another ingredient? It doesn't make sense, that if you honestly believe local food to be superior, to eat anything else.

Diet does affect epigenetics in the way that if you eat food containing microplastics, you may alter your genes in a way like that. But it is not as if a person is predisposed to eating certain foods because they have certain genes.

Genes do not have a role in what food is best for you, this truly is on the tier of pseudoscience. Healthy food is about nutrition, not what is best for you based on genetics, because there is no such thing as food that is best for a person based on their genetics. There is no universal diet for everyone because everyone's body is different, one person may need more calcium than another, or more iron, but to be truly healthy they still need to reach the recommended amounts of these minerals and vitamins. That is not changed by genetics, except for perhaps on a very small level, as in, some genes can process the iron in meat better than other genes, and maybe those genes are isolated to a small tribe somewhere. That does not mean that their local food is best for them, they still need a complete and balanced nutritional profile in their diets, or their bodies will suffer the consequences of being malnourished.

Gut flora can be transplanted from person to person with the use of faeces, it is not individual to each person. There is an ideal gut flora, this ideal does not change from person to person. There needs to be an appropriate amount of beneficial bacteria, micro-organisms, etc.

>>16898589
Yes, there is genetic variation in people, some people respond better to unhealthy foods, some worse, some respond...

...better to healthier foods, some worse, etc, as you have shown with that link. But that does not mean anyone should ignore the recommended nutritional profile, as at the end of the day, that is the best marker for how healthy a person in regards to the foods they eat.

Genes do affect how food tastes to some people, such as cilantro occasionally tasting like soap to some people, this is common knowledge.

I am sorry but I have disproven every point you have come up with. It is a simple fact: Dairy is a culinary crutch. It is only used by """"cooks"""" who do not know what they are doing.