/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Your theory is retarded. Fat people drink their calories in soda, beer, and "coffee". Sugar. Then they eat calorie dense, nutritionally lacking meals that leave them feeling unsatisfied which results in overeating. Has nothing to do with protein or fat as even the the biggest lardass is probably pounding a bucket or 3 of fried chicken a week.

>>16130122
This. Fat people eat too much carbs.

>>16130122
>calorie dense, nutritionally lacking meals
What does this even mean? Just a buzzword meme?

>>16130036

Read Lustig.

>>16130141
Processed foods that overload on empty carbohydrates and saturated fats in order to maximize shelf life and cover up low quality ingredients, fast food etc

>>16130149
>empty carbohydrates
Another buzzword

Surely you arent implying fat people are fat because they lack minerals and vitamins, right? That would make zero sense

>>16130161
No I'm implying they eat a fuck ton of carbs in comparison to the other macros in their diet. Processed food is disproportionately high in carbs.

>>16130173
>evil processed foods
Plenty of foods that dont fall into this buzzword catagory also are disproportionately high in carbs. Why arent those foods responsible for obeasity?

>>16130173
thats kind of what i meant. i should have written "overload on carbs and fat" instead of "overload on fat" alone. but i'm trying to see how much protein they actually get in their macros.

Im 5' 6" and 140 pounds

Yesterdays Intake:
-Poptart pack when I wake up (terrible and unhealty and I dont eat them normally, generally i have a hard boiled egg and a cheese stick)
-coffee ( black always, no need to add sugar and creamer and take something amazing and turn it unhealthy imo)
-2 pc fish meal with french frys for lunch side of tarter sauce and a water to drink
-for dinner two soft tacos supreme and a chicken chipotle melt from tell
-ate a birthday cake snack thing after dinner for desert
-three shots of brandy throughout the night
-small Gatorade and a glass of water before bed

That is every single thing I ate/drank yesterday

if you like meat at all and you overeat it's kind of easy to consume a decent amount of protein. Personally I don't know what I'm doing wrong, thinking of maybe cutting on pasta and sweeter vegetables like tomatoes and stuff

>>16130220
you sure that's correct anon? i dont know but getting 175g of QUALITY protein (not shit like gluten) is pretty damn hard. where do you get your protein? tried whey powder?

>>16130203
Also I feel fat even tho everyone calls me skinny, I used to be 120 and now im 140 and even tho im normal size I feel fat and bloated and im not sure if its just mental. I started lifting two weeks ago cause I was tired of feeling "fat" and everyone keeps saying things like it will be really hard to get buff with your endomorph build or your gonna have to really change your diet or you better take it very slow. I feel like everyone wants excuses why they are not taking steps to get more healty and fit.

>>16130203
in very rough numbers i think tacos supreme + chicken chipotle melt should be 30-40g protein, not sure what "fish meal" you're talking about but i dont expect it to have much protein either. so i think you're getting like 40-70g of good protein in a day, could be wrong but sounds so—thats very little really. have you tried eating more dairy, like greek yoghurt? maybe chicken breasts?

>>16130220
>Personally I don't know what I'm doing wrong
You're consuming four thousand two hundred and twenty seven calories in one day

>>16130141
>>16130161
>>16130191
How is this a challenging hypothesis to understand
No brain monkey

>>16130259
I could start eating more chicken, I generally eat fast food or takeput from restaurants, single guy so cooking has seemed like a waste of time for 5 years now. I am not a picky eater tho amd could eat a pretty much plain chicken breast 4 days a week and not mind the repetativness

>>16130237
the pork is 130, so yeah if you disregard wheat protein it's less

>>16130220
to be honest, this >>16130266
4k calories is 2k more than you should be eating

>>16130036
5'11", 240 lbs

Yesterday:
English muffin with ham and a can of la Croix
Pork burrito
King size fast break
20 oz diet Dr pepper
Toasted ham and cheese with french fries bbq sauce on the side.

Sunday:
English muffin with ham and mustard with a glass of water
Two cheese quesadillas
Chicken and rice
4 pints of lager

Don't remember what I ate on Saturday.

>>16130275
i think you fell for a bit tricky trap, protein rich foods often have ton of fat too. that roast has like 100+g fat in it, meaning an extra 1k calories you don't really need. if you need protein, go for chicken breast, greek yoghurt or just whey powder.
i also just looked and noticed you drink 12 bottles of beer every day, that's just way too fucking much. sumo wrestlers drink loads of beer, you can tell what it does to a person trying to lose weight. just switch to water or diet soda, if you need alcohol then at least get it from anywhere but beer.
cut these and you'll solve 99% problems.

>>16130220
Stop drinking 12 beers a day

>>16130141
It's a ketotard.

>>16130122
so true on the soda and beer

>>16130220
>12 beers

>>16130036
I'm an alcoholic that drinks like a liter of vodka a day. What i usually do is mix 4oz of vodka with 8oz of monster ultra. I am cutting back and am now doing 3oz per drink, tho.

The rest of my diet is usually one meal of takeout food a day. I do eat pizza a lot, but I only eat about half of it and throw out the rest. I am about to order some sushi for today.

>>16130306
>>16130334
I mean I usually try to go for leaner meats and cut back on the beer but even then, it's like it's too high anyway. I'm thinking maybe I should cut back on fruit, I have some once in a while and there's just all that sugar

>>16130348
Don't drink any alcohol except on weekends, and even then no more than 4 drinks in one day. Don't drink any soda at all. Don't eat candy.

>>16130122
A caloric imbalance is caused by the total intake of calories, not whatever macronutrient makes you butthurt.

>>16130348
>>16130220
What app is this

>>16130362
cronometer

>>16130360
Well that is what he said.... the fact if that if you don't balance you macros properly you will not feel full after a meal. which will lead you to overeating if you don't have a lot of self control or a nutritional imbalance if you do.

>>16130036
Typical day (yesterday)

> don't eat breakfast or lunch because lazy
> 3:30pm, get off work, go home
> have a beer or two
> eat an entire tub of hummus and two bags of baby carrots
> microwave and eat a large can of baked beans with chopped up hot dog in it and cheese on top
> have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich while cooking some meat
> have a lunch meat and cheese sandwich while cooking some meat
> have cooked meat dipped in mayo/hot sauce mix
> eat a 4 quart salad with mayo-hot sauce dressing and a ton of nuts and olives and bacon bits
> eat a few baked potatoes or pasta with pesto
> finish strong with another PB&J and glass of milk

>>16130122
I know many fat people who don’t drink alcohol, sugary drinks, soft drinks etc but eat tons of fat as OP says with little protein.

Fat guy here. I drink water for the first 3 hours of my 13h shift at work. After that I have 3 large cups of coffee spaced out within 5 hours or so. I'll drink it black but I prefer whitener. I'll eat one meal usually pasta or stew/curry. Twice a month I have homemade pizza. At home I generally eat twice in 24 hours (when not working) but also drink beer, and hard liquor. I dont eat fast food or drink soda, though I do drink Gatorade now and then. I'm at least 220 pounds and I'm not 6 ft

>>16130553
How much pasta is a serving to you?
I personally don't understand how anyone can stomach more than 50g at a time

>>16130564
Not him but if I'm having spaghetti I usually eat around 250g (dry weight). Usually I mix it with fried onions and fried tomatoes and butter and garlic.

>>16130614
There's no way 250g dried pasta even fits onto one fucking plate. Unironically, do you eat out of a bucket?

>>16130626
I eat it out of the pot I boiled it in, or I eat it out of a bowl and just make 3 or so trips to refill

>>16130631
What the fuck is wrong with you? What went wrong in your life to make you think this is behavior befitting a human being?

>>16130036
I’m 250 not because my “macros” are off but because frequently sit down at at the dinner table and eat enough food for a family of 4, anon. Pic related I had 2 of these for today’s breakfast.

Yesterday
Breakfast:a pork chop 3 eggs, an apple and oatmeal with blueberries

Lunch: tuna, Mayo, a piece of celery, half a bell pepper, and half a small onion on 2 pieces of bread. With this I usually eat a pound of radishes and either an orange or an apple

Dinner: half a package of pasta with if I had to guess I’d say at least 2.5 pounds of meatballs (probably more) and half a cup of parm cheese, some garlic bread and a glass of milk

After that I ate another orange and raw head of broccoli with maybe 1/4 cup of ranch.

I also snuck in probably 6 cookies as i made a bunch of dough from scratch to save money

>>16130122
>t. ketolard

>>16130649
I saw my gf doing it and it seemed reasonable

I'd be way fatter if it wasn't for all the yardwork and house maintenance. I'm 6'1 and 200lb rn

>>16130626
I just had 300 grams of pasta (5'11, 170 lbs, very fit). I have big plates :)

>>16130564
I dont weigh it lol. I'd say 1/3rd of a box or something. Probably 100g but really dont know.

5’6 147lbs
I wake up see what’s in the freezer (usually chicken nuggets or frozen pizza) throw one in the oven and in the mean time eat some chips and cookies and then when my food comes out crack open a new 2L Dr Pepper and go to town on my pizza.
That’s around 1000 calories then in the evening I repeat and another 1000 calories

>>16130650
start lifting weights and you will be a strong man

>>16130650
This >>>16130971
You could easily start lifting weights and be fit

>>16130141
OK it's reading comprehension: 9th grade level

Calorie dense: dense in calories for what it is, in this case volume, satisfaction, minerals, fiber, macros, nutrients.

Examples include syrups, sugars, carbs with little to offer besides calories.

Nutritionally lacking: lacking nutrients

>>16130348
you get too many calories from vodka. remember, pure alcohol is 7 cals per gram. vodka is 80 proof or so, thus 280 cals per 100ml, or 84 cal per 1 fl oz. it's also dehydrating.

>>16130965
sounds like very little protein. have you tried counting it? do you eat much dairy or lean meat/chicken breast?
>>16130650
holy shit
i agree you could absolutely go /fit/
maybe try whey powder to curb your appetite

>>16130128
Wrong. Eating rice, potatoes, and pasta is filling. They're eating 99% sugar. 2 oreo cookies is 170~ calories. They eat 15.

Carbs is not the issue. Junk food is. Going to McDonald's for a burger is better than eating oreos or potato chips.

>>16130220
What are you putting on the protein when you cook it. How much fat is on the protein.

>>16131270
You don't need to add any fat to pork shoulder, it's plenty fat as it is

>>16130203
I'm 5'6, 60kg which is like 135lb?

>Black coffee, no additions
>Pesto pasta chickpea thing
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/305047524
>Beer
https://groceries.morrisons.com/products/marstons-old-empire-268470011
>Takeaway - chicken teriyaki with noodles, fried chicken side

When I don't have takeaway I'll make something, either something with fish and veg or something heartier like a roast dinner or lasagna etc. I've been making an effort to eat more fat and protein, and fewer carbs if I can. Just the increase in fat and protein has helped control my appetite and energy levels throughout the day. I'm plateaued at my current weight but if I cut out the beers and takeaways I'd be dropping weight again without feeling hungry.

>>16131274
OP here, this was the image that led me to this theory. notice most of what she eats is sugar and fat. i wonder how she takes a gallon of milk a day and she's still hungry though, that alone should be 120g protein.

>>16130650
Lift weights, daddy.

>>16131284
That's my point. You didn't record the fat.

>>16130036
I'm fat but I only eat 2000 calories a day, 35-40% protein, and I've lost about 70 pounds so far.

>>16131354
I don't follow

>>16131354
Fat is included in the calorie count column retard

I'm 5'1" and fluctuate between 160-162lbs. I really want to get back down to the 1205-125lbs range, but it's hard to motivate myself to exercise. I don't think I eat anything too crazy when I am dedicated to eating homemade meals. However, after a week, I get tired of spending so much time cooking/cleaning that I ended up falling into the habit of getting fastfood, takeout, or frozen pizza. This last for about a week and then I feel fat and start making homemade food again. It's an endless cycle.

The lazy week recently started:

>Today
No breakfast
Lunch: Rotini noodles with a quick homemade alfredo sauce
Dinner: Feeling subconscious about my eating habits now so trying to decide if I still want to be lazy or get back to cooking
Water, Gatorade Zero, and Mountain Dew Zero

>Yesterday
No breakfast
Lunch: Lean Cuisine salisbury steak and mac 'n' cheese (needed a quick lunch)
Snack: Crackers with some salami and cheese
Dinner: Leftover pizza, fried pickles, and jalapeno poppers (wanted it out of the freezer)
Water, Gatorade Zero, Mountain Dew Zero, a beer, and like 5oz of bourbon

>Sunday
Hungover (the reason for the Gatorade)
No breakfast
Lunch: Cheeseburger and fries because I wanted something greasy
Dinner: Pizza because I didn't want to cook
Water, Gatorade Zero, Mountain Dew Zero, a bit of Dr. Pepper Zero (to get it out of the fridge), and maybe 4-5oz of whiskey (because hair of the dog)

>Saturday (last day I cooked)
No breakfast
No lunch (too busy playing games)
Nibbled on crackers
Dinner: T-bone steak with roasted creamer potatoes, green beans, and con on the cob
Water, Mountain Dew Zero, lost count of the beer and bourbon

I can try to remember what all I made the week I did cook if anyone is interested and wants to compare the lazy week to a non-lazy week.

>>16131542
Your foods don't sound bad so I'm guessing your portions are out of control. Mine tend to creep up over time. Spend a week cooking just recommended serving sizes and see what it looks like compared to your usual.

>>16131579
>>16131542
it is pretty damn low on protein though. the good animal derived protein i mean. theres some protein there but it's in high-fat products, some stuff like salami / cheese here and there.
i'd really recommend some low-fat dairy, eg greek yoghurt, skim milk, maybe a bit more lean meat. i'd dial down on pizza—it's mostly carbs + fat, the protein in it is likely more than half gluten which is shit plant protein. maybe when you crave pizza, get some cottage cheese or at least regular cheese or some meat fast food like chicken (even nuggets may be better).
and of course, dial down on extreme alcohol binges, alcohol has tons of calories.

>>16130036

>>16130036

>7am: diet pop can
>8am: diet pop can
>9am: breakfast, piece of ham, kraft single, 1 egg over medium, piece of toast
>10am: diet pop can
>11am: diet pop can
>12pm: diet pop can
>1pm: lunch, sometimes high calorie airfried frozen food like chicken fingers OR homemade club sandwich, cheese/relish/crackers
>probably have beer or two if I'm binge drinking
>2pm: diet pop can (and a beer if bd)
>3pm: diet pop can (and a beer if bd)
>4pm: diet pop can (and a beer if bd, sometimes more than one at once, sometimes change it up)
>5pm: dinner, probably normal serving of something like a hotdog, a vegetable, mac and cheese, idk
>6pm-midnight: diet pop cans and beer until it's gone

>>16130036

>>16130036

>>16130036
When I was fat, I did shit like throw ice cream in with cake into a blender and made a "shake" out of it. I suppose you would categorize this as "overloading on fat" and not what it really was, which is feeding a carb addiction

>>16130122
Can confirm I drank a shit ton of montain dew and raspberry Brisk. Insulin pump and dump all day every day.

>>16130525
No you don't.

>>16130203
you aren't plus size retard

>>16130036

>>16130348
stop being a tremendous faggot, stop willingly ignore all the advice of cutting out alcohol while coping with "MUH FRUIT SUGAR"
thanks a lot fag

>>16131260
>White powder
Are you Chinese?

>>16131309
>Sugar
No, most of what she eats is carbs. Read about insulin. You cannot gain fat if you aren't spiking insulin. Dietary fat does not spike insulin.

>>16131824
Looks delicious

>>16130036

>>16131879
>Read about insulin. You cannot gain fat if you aren't spiking insulin.
ok ketard

>>16131879
Sugar is carbs, retard.
>Read about insulin. You cannot gain fat if you aren't spiking insulin. Dietary fat does not spike insulin.
This is not remotely true and you obviously have no idea what you're talking about, because any cursory research shows this to be demonstrably false.

>>16130626
>There's no way 250g dried pasta even fits onto one fucking plate.

Who says you need to use a standard dinner plate? I too eat similar amounts from time to time and just use a large pyrex dish to hold it all.

>>16130036

>>16131879
>Read about insulin. You cannot gain fat if you aren't spiking insulin. Dietary fat does not spike insulin.
ok ketard

>>16130036

>>16131945
>Implying CICO isn't the most redditard mantra in the diet industry
I killed over 3.5k cal daily and was 135-138 lbs at 5'6 you dumb nigger, have fun with your weight watchers Oprah reading club diet though

>>16130036

>>16131986
>was 135-138 lbs at 5'6
so you were at normal weight for your height? congratulations anon, as an american you deserve a pat on the back for this

>>16130036

>>16130036

Can anyone stop the power of the Protein Poster?

>>16130036

>>16130384
>Typical day (yesterday)
You missed the last step....."shit pants and pass out on floor"

>>16130626
>do you eat out of a bucket?
Why yes, how could you tell?

>>16131864
I know some pretty fat Mormons that don't drink alcohol and the only caffeinated drink they have is diet coke for some reason

>>16131542
I'm also 5'1", but 120lbs. Though would prefer to be 110-115. At our height you have to be really careful with portion sizes. I've been 120lbs since puberty, only creeping up a little in college, but once I got my eating habits back under control I went back to normal. I only run 3-4 times a week for 30-45 minutes so not a crazy amount of exercise. I don't drink alcohol because the calories aren't worth it for me. If I'm going to be drinking calories, I'd rather it be something like mango or pineapple juice. Think the best thing I did for my eating habits was cutting out sugar for a few weeks, really changed my tastebuds and now I don't really crave anything sweet really. Most of my protein comes from eggs or beans. I never eat breakfast, but that's because I always feel pretty nauseous in the mornings.

>Today:
No breakfast
Lunch: bagel with an egg on each half with mustard. two mandarins
Snack: coffee with almond milk (I'm lactose intolerant) and a sliced apple
Dinner: granola with almond milk and some cubed apple microwaved with cinnamon
Dessert: half an apple fritter (too sweet to eat a whole one in one sitting)

>Yesterday:
No breakfast
Lunch: grits with salt, no butter or anything. Shredded cabbage with pickled banana peppers and a little mustard
Snack: apple slices with peanut butter
Dinner: pretzel roll sliced in half with two eggs and some more shredded cabbage with ranch dressing that I mixed with a little apple cider vinegar
Dessert: some mango mixed with almond milk yogurt and honey

I think I eat pretty bland food, to be honest. My favourite things to eat are eggs with mustard on toast or brined olives mixed with rice and avocado.

>>16131542
>>16132360
genuinely curious no bully
are you women? or perhaps third world males?
i am curious as to why a non-third world male would be 5'1". if you are a non-third world male, please offer your explanation for your height.

>>16130036
Real fat people don't pay attention to what they eat. Some days they'll eat virtually nothing and pther days they'll eat enough to feed a small town.
t. Fat fuck

>>16130036
I buy extra large boxes of microwave pizza bagels and open all of the entire box at the same time and shove as much as I can into the microwave and cook them all at once until they become one solid brick of elephant foot radioactive brick.

that's the appetizer

then I buy one box of extra large king size cereal (one of every flavor and brand) and then I sprinkle a little bit of each one into a giant mixing/salad bowl so that every brand and flavor is in one bowl. I add the cereal first because I don't hate myself. Then I add the poptarts, of which I also purchased one of every flavor. I take some small amount of plain uncooked poptarts and add them in, then I take some and freeze them, and take others and toast them. Then I take some toasted ones and freeze them, and take some frozen ones and toast them (all create variations in texture and flavor) and then add every possible combination to my cereal. The poptarts act like the marshmallows of the cereal.

Then I add the milk, which is usually a combination of heavy cream, grass fed whole milk, chocolate milk, half and half, and canned evaporated milk (they all have slightly different flavors and I like them all mixed together)

then I eat it with a big salad tossing spoon or a big soup pot spoon.

For dessert, I buy a giant kind sized box of drumstick icecream with every flavor possible (I buy more boxes of different flavors if I can't find one that has all of them) and then I eat one cone of each flavor.

For aftermeal, I have a cup of green tea with a squeeze of lemon juice to help me lose weight.

6'1 280ish lbs last time i checked
breakfast: some combo of apple, banana, yogurt, or oatmeal. i dont really like to eat a big breakfast.
lunch: depends on what is laying around; tortilla chips with fresh cut salsa, a frozen eggrolls, lightly dressed salads (leaf lettuce + spinach, other additions vary)
dinner: typical meals for me include salmon or chicken breast as the main protein, with rice or pasta depending on the dish, and usually broccoli as my veg, sometimes asparagus. occasionally i make soups or chili.
if i feel the need for some sugary refreshment i will make some lemonade but i typically drink only water or loose-leaf tea
unfortunately i work somewhere that shitty snacks and soda are readily available and find myself eating that shit probably a couple times a week - trying to cut that out though.
my main issue is that i eat way too much. if i make rice i typically make 2 cups (dry) at a time, eating half with dinner and saving the rest for fried rice or whatever. i will make 2 pieces of fish and eat em both. i just make too much damn food. i have been roughly the same weight for years, but i recently started lifting to channel my big eats into big gainz. still trying to cut back a bit though.

>>16131579
>>16131653
>>16132360
Thanks for the suggestions, anons! I never really thought that my portion sizes could be too big, but maybe they are. I'll need to do some research to see if my portions are bigger than suggested for the things I order and make.

As I said previously, that is what I eat during a lazy week. When I decide to properly cook meals, I consume more protein. I don't remember the exact things I ate the last time I cooked for a week straight, but here's some of meals I made recently. I'm curious as to what your thoughts are now:

>Baked salmon with garlic-herb butter, roasted asparagus and cherry tomatoes, and wild rice
>Braised lamb chops with blanched asparagus and mashed potatoes
>Beef or chicken tacos (low carb tortilla shells) with lettuce, peppers, onions, & cheese with elote ("street corn") and normally some homemade salsa, guac, or pico de gallo. (Sometimes I eat chips. Sometimes I use the low card shells to make chips. Sometimes I just have a taco salad)
>BBQ chicken (grilled) with collards and homemade mac 'n' cheese
>BLT sandwich with pasta salad, boiled eggs, grilled corn, and thick cut tomato slices (so the whole tomato was used)
>Bratwursts with grilled peppers & onions, homemade potato salad, and grilled corn

When I cook, I like having a protein, vegetable, and normally some other side. Sometimes I'll have a side salad, too. I still drink coffee, water, and zero sugar sodas if I want a soda. But honestly...

>alcohol has tons of calories
That is my weakness.

>>16132414
>are you women?
I am.

>>16132432
>Some days they'll eat virtually nothing
i dont believe you

>>16132447
>For aftermeal, I have a cup of green tea with a squeeze of lemon juice to help me lose weight.
KEK

>>16130036
big corn shills getting desperate now? it must be fat which makes people fat and not your hfcs right?

>>16130036
Fat person here. I got fat from just eating sugar way too much, mostly soda. I never really overate or did the whole eating until full shit. I stopped drinking soda a year ago and have lost 60 lbs

>>16132447
sweet jesus

>>16132414
>please offer your explanation for your height.
What the fuck is this autism? How the fuck would they know beyond its just their genetics?

>>16132517
is big corn in the room with us right now?

>>16132744
that would be a reasonable explanation, in addition to others

>>16132447
No fucking way

>>16133026
There is no other explanation.

>>16130036
breakfast - 2 egg omelette, usually with cheese and some sort of veggie, or a (cheese) bagel with butter, or just coffee (1x1).

lunch - usually nothing, sometimes one or two hardboiled eggs or some dry salami, with or without some veggies

dinner - pretty varied. Lately, I've been eating at work, so a lot of curries with rice, pastas with sausage, things I can make with two burners and minimal attention.

>>16132479
these dishes sound decent as long as you take good lean meat. chicken especially so. high protein and lots of veggies is the right direction for weight loss. potatoes are a plus too, studies say they have high satiety index. overall good choices, just be sure not to add too much extra carbs or fat (eg ranch), or at least balance it out with a fiber-reach vegetable.

>>16133054
you're not a plus-size individual, are you?

>>16133069
I'm fairly muscular for a fatty, but I'm 265-ish.

>>16133071
how the fuck are you still fat? unless you eat like 3k calories at dinner

>>16130036
>>16130203
5'10", 250lbs (at least)

Today's intake
>Two battered sausage & cone of chips w/ scraps
>1 can Monster Energy The Doctor
>75cl (or thereabouts) of coke
It's shit I know, but I'm a fat fuck on a fat fuck's diet. At the moment I'm back on time restricted eating to loose some weight since it worked for me when I were back at college but lockdown fucked everything over dinit?

>>16133106
I'm down from 290.

>>16132447
What the actual fuck?

>>16130036
>check my theory that plus-size people undereat protein and overload on fat

I think you mean overload on sugar.

>>16132447
>open all of the entire box at the same time
fucking kek

>>16130220
>burned 2k calories
unless you were lifting cars and doing the tour de France in a day, how did you calculate burning 2k calories? Especially while drinking 12 fucking beers.

>>16133339
Not that guy, but when I was setting up stages and building video walls all day eryday, 4k was probably an easy day. The guys biking the Tour de France are probably 10k and above. Overdoing it will shed pounds.

>>16131274
how the fuck is lasagne the healthiest thing in that image

>>16131718
>>16131801
>>16131824
who the fuck just eats a block of cheese?

>>16130274
>I generally eat fast food or takeput from restaurants, single guy so cooking has seemed like a waste of time
I was in the same boat, also constantly hovering on the chunky side but not getting outright fat. When I started eating my own cooking I gradually converged to my ideal weight, without specifically trying (I'd cook fattening shit all the time)

The good news is this means your body is probably working correctly. I think takeout portions are just too big and it's too natural to eat everything that's in front of you, so you're just eating a bit too much relative to what you naturally would. Unfortunately I think it's pretty difficult to avoid this problem if you eat out all the time. Consider cooking more if only for your own health, it's actually not that hard once you get used to it.

>I am not a picky eater tho amd could eat a pretty much plain chicken breast 4 days a week and not mind the repetativness
In that case it's even easier, but I recommend making your meals slightly more interesting than that or you'll really crave takeout again. I know you say you're not picky but you'll get sick of it
The good news is it doesn't actually take much to make interesting food, 99% of recipes online are too much work in my opinion.

6'2" 240
>Get up at 6:30
>Breakfast - 6 shots espresso
>Lunch - nothing
>Dinner at 6:00ish
>NY Strip, 3 Eggs, Bowl of kumquats/cherries/gooseberries/raspberries, handful of baked apple chips
I basically don't eat until past 5:00 PM everyday.

>>16133339
That's just TDEE at sedentary for a fat fuck, BMR being around 2000

>>16130252
>I started lifting two weeks ago cause I was tired of feeling "fat" and everyone keeps saying things like it will be really hard to get buff with your endomorph build or your gonna have to really change your diet or you better take it very slow. I feel like everyone wants excuses why they are not taking steps to get more healty and fit.
you are going to make it friend, you have a good attitude
just keep at it

>>16130626
>europoors face such scarcity they don’t understand the concept of seconds
can’t make this shit up

5'6, 171lbs
I wake up and have an espresso coffee until it's around 12 pm and then I'll either eat left overs which usually involves rice or pasta with some sauce or maybe I'll eat some canned fish on bread
1 hour later I'll eat a fruit, usually an apple
1-2 hours after that I'll have another espresso
At 7pm I'll cook dinner, usually some dish with rice or rarely pasta I had mapo tofu last night
After dinner I'll have black tea
When I'm not NEETing it's the same except I won't eat a fruit and will get takeaway for lunch or i'll bring sliced bread and a can of fish and eat it

>>16134121
Also I'm never really hungry, I just eat food until I feel sick

>>16130122
Thats not really what anon's looking for, though. He didn't say that he thinks it makes people fat, he just thinks that generally their diet is fat heavy and protein low. A person could eat a ton of carbs, a ton of fat, little protein, be fat and fit into his theory.

>>16130957
A box is normally 500g so 1/3 is about 160g.

I weigh it out and eat 100g per meal. It is plenty and I frequently have leftovers. Couldn't imagine having more than that.

>>16130141
Lots of calories, little vitamins, minerals and proteins. Those terms are all quite well-defined.

>>16130220
>Personally I don't know what I'm doing wrong
>this is your brain on morbid obesity
You're eating 4000 calories a day, 2000 of which are alcohol. Easy 2000 calories a day.

Your app's estimation of how many calories you're burning is wrong, unless you're in the army.

>>16134959
*Eat 2000 calories a day

god i hate fat people

>>16134959
what would you estimate the TDEE of a 240lbs man to be?

>>16130122
this is especially true for black people. many black families either only drink bottled water or simply don't drink water at all. tap water to many black families is for cooking or washing hands. i'm not making this shit up at all; i hear my black coworkers talking about what they drink sometimes and it's largely a toss up if they'll be the type of black person who doesn't drink water at all or only drinks pre-bottled water. i'm not really a racist kind of person but to be honest it kind of pisses me off. guess how many of these individuals are 300+ pounds?

>>16133044
>diet
>medical conditions
>hormonal mileu
>environmental factors

>>16135054
I have known mostly white Americans to be like that. Disgusting tbqh.

5'8" and 150lbs here.
Breakfast is always a quarter cup of cream of wheat and roughly 1/2 to 1/3 a cup of frozen berries or frozen fruit (blackberries, blueberries, raspberries or strawberries and bananas). This is made with a half cup or so of whole milk, and a half serving of nutella. Washed down with a 16oz cup of coffee with a few ounces of whole milk in it.

Lunch and dinner are usually one of the following two meals:
1 or 2 fillets of tilapia baked with just a smothering of olive oil, salt and pepper, a quarter cup of rice or mashed potatoes, and about half of the time a small handful of broccoli florets. I do put some sugary sauce on it and sriracha.
The other meal is a large serving of tri color rotini, broccoli, and two hard boiled eggs. This just has salt, pepper, olive oil, and grated parmesan cheese to top it. As a third meal I just sub chicken thigh for the fish.
I do snack often though. Yesterday I had a third of a pint of ice cream, random spoonfuls of cottage cheese, 2 beers, and packet of beef jerky. Sometimes I eat taco bell. Couple days ago I was snacking on flavored popcorn. Sometimes I control myself and abstain from drinking and snacking for days at a time.

>>16130036
protein and fat is how you stay skinny, retard

>>16130122
Don't discourage people from doing independent research.

1100 calories worth of ragu bolognese with 400 calories of rigatoni
I've lost 35 lbs eating only this nearly every day for the last 3 months

being called plus size is more insulting than being called a fat bastard

>>16136929
>being called plus size is more insulting than being called a fat bastard
good, i'll start calling fat people "plus size" all the time now

>>16130122
>Fat people drink their calories in soda, beer, and "coffee".

this 100%

>>16136480
>5'8" and 150lbs here
thats normal weight for 5'8, you arent plus size

>>16130036
breakfast: bowl of raisin bran
lunch: pack of crackers
dinner: protein and carbs
problem is the beer. i have a six beer minimum per day.

can of /deenz/
mini can of coke zero

some strip streak stir fried with onions and mushrooms
mini can of coke zero

the end

>>16135054
Do you live in some midwestern shithole? Most people are like that here and there are landwhales everywhere.

>>16130036
dietary fat ! = body fat, in fact some fats have very good satiety so even though they're high in calories they'll keep you feeling full longer

the real key is to drink lots of water, cut out sugary drinks, and don't add extra salt to things. Most things have enough sodium. salt will make you feel hungry

>>16138326
also as far as carbs go, potatos are very sating and will make you feel full a lot longer than rice, bread etc

>>16133110
I'm an inch taller than you and weigh about 260Ibs, and I don't seem that "fat", maybe it's time to hit the gym a bit? be proud of your weight, bro! turn some of your fat it into muscle

seal candidates in bud/s eat 10k/cal a day. i've heard a seal say he at a large dominos pizza every day after training. and they statistically lose weight. it's calories in calories out people.

>>16130036
I'm technically obese, but I'm kind of just overweight at 6' and 220lbs.
On a typical day I'd eat cereal or an egg sandwich for breakfast, and some kind of pasta/rice dish with a chicken breast/piece of steak and side veg for dinner with a lot of snacking inbetween.
I only drink water and milk.

>>16131261
Nigga what do you think carbs are made up of?

>>16131542
>Hair of the dog
>5 shots of whisky
Lmao and I thought I was bad

>>16134946
>Those terms are all quite well-defined.
Yeah, so well defined that everything that contains calories is defined as a nutrient, macro or otherwise. Thus, "calorie dense, nutritionally lacking" makes no sense. Buzzwords from a willful retard or a pitiful ignorant.

Not all fatsoes eat shit food, I am overweight not because of what I eat but because I eat too much of it. I barely ever eat anything that I don't make from scratch, except for an occasional frozen pizza when I'm working late. Don't really eat any sugary snacks and don't drink soda at all, I do drink a fair amount of beer.

>>16131274
>tomato
>potato
>cucumbers
good on her for getting her 5 servings of veg a day

>>16133411

>>16138326
>in fact some fats have very good satiety
like which

>>16133757
>one anon is 6'2"
ayyyyy. hows that CS degree going?

>>16140447
All animal sourced fat and protein is highly satious. No other foods will make you feel as satiated and as long as animal products do.
Grains and vegetables like oatmeal and potatoes only fill you up because they physically fill up your stomach via bloating compared to animal products but this doesn't last long because it's no real satiety, because your nutritional requirements haven't been met and your blood sugar has been spiked which will cause you to be hungry again within 2-4 hours. A full carnivore omad meal will keep me sated for 24 hrs or more until i get any hunger pangs. Lemme know when you'll be able to naturally fast by eating potatoes without even trying.

>>16141306
>All animal sourced fat and protein is highly satious.
protein—yes, fat—citation needed. some sites show satiety of stuff like lard and such to be extremely low.

>>16130141
Ex. Ice cream: 274 calories per cup, most fatties eat about 2, which is easily 500+ calories but contains 56g of sugar and 9.2g of protein.

>wake up at 6:30am
>dont eat anything till 3pm when I get home from work
>Eat whatever greasy thing grandma makes
>Have seconds
>Maybe a tea or cereal or leftovers around 7-8pm

5'10; around 190lbs.
Gained weight because I used to drink a shitload of beer, and maintained it because I can't say no to grandma's big homemade food portions

>>16141330
They are wrong because they are based on the simple notion of what makes you full the fastest. Butcwhat matters is how long and why you feel full. Fat takes almost 2 days to digest and and doesn't spike insulin which means ghrelin and leptin function is optimal. When leptin functions optimally it won't tell you you're hungry as long as you have a source of fat either in your stomach or on your body.

>>16130036
You are not plus sized, you are fat. Say it like it is if you want to improve.

>>16130036
I've never been super fat but I've always been overweight. Right now I'm in the process of losing weight so I'll give you what was a normal day of eating for me, including time which I think is important too.

Breakfast at around 10:30AM:
2 - 3 quesadillas (flour tortilla with manchego cheese)
1 glass of milk or cocoa

Snack 12:00PM:
Maybe a pack of cookies or chips. Not always did I have this.

Lunch 2:00 or 3:00PM:
Grilled meat or chicken with some pasta, maybe some veggies if I had some on hand. Coke to drink most likely.

Afternoon snack 6:00PM:
Chips and a coke, maybe some candy.

Dinner 10:00PM:
Sandwich or more quesadillas, milk or cocoa to drink.

Along the day I would have some water or maybe some sugary drink
I hope this helps anon, what I take away from that is that I used to eat way too much sugar and unhealthy carbs. Right now I stick to mostly filling vegetable based meals, meat, chicken, and whole grain, homemade bread, although I try to keep it low

>>16131542 Here

To the anons that recommended monitoring portion sizes, thank you! I realized I was making more food than I really needed. I think it's going to take a little bit of time to adjust to eating less and figuring out the right portion size for everything. But let's give it a try and see if there are any chances in a few weeks.

>>16131542
I'm a 5'1" womans too but I am much heavier. I started working on my weight in April and I dropped from uh, 240 something to about 220.

Before I changed things, I skipped breakfast, ate a lot of fast food and I'd snack on shit all day like potato chips, soda, and sweet coffee drinks. I also ate a lot of churros which is fried sugar dough filled with more sugar. I also drank pretty heavily. Sugary shit, yet again.

I wanna say my boobs make up a big chunk of my weight but last time I weighed them alone they were about 25 lbs total.

>>16142070
let's see em

>>16130036
On a diet rn so usually it goes, yogurt with granola and fruit or a protein shake for breakfast, plus a multivitamin and fish oil. Caesar Salad with Chicken and sometimes a sandwich for lunch. Then usually a combination of meat, veg, rice or pasta, and sometimes beans for dinner.

>>16142349
Also nowadays i usually burn 1100+ calories a day exercising for between 1-2 hours a day depending on what exercise I do.

>>16141991
yeah kinda obvious how you gained weight. snack foods like cookies/chips and soda are pretty damn bad, people dont realize how many extra calories these give until they count. it's good you switched to more filling diet, way to go anon

>>16130173
It’s literally calories in calories out. Keto meme really rotting people’s brains.
Also fun fact, cheese is the number one cause of overeating in Americans.

>>16142551
>Also fun fact, cheese is the number one cause of overeating in Americans.
gonna need a source on that desu

Just dropping soda was more than enough. It was hard for a few days but now everything seems super sweet to me.
>>16142197
My husband said no so I guess imma be a liar

>>16130036
Breakfast
>100g of fat free greek yoghurt with 1 spoon of honey and 6 nuts
Snack
>1 fruit (no grapes/bananas/figs)
Lunch
>50gr of pasta with 80g of tuna or 100g of ricotta cheese
Snack
>20g of parmesan
Dinner
>200g of red meat/ 250 of white meat/ 200g of mozzarella +veggies (non fried) with 1 tbs of oil and 1 of vinegar

>>16143654
sounds good. have you been losing weight?

400lb death feeder here. my life has been spiraling and i mostly subsist on fast food via uber eats since i'm having trouble walking at this point. my usuals are

McDonalds:
double quarter pounder meal large w/ coke
10 mcnuggets
a side burger like a mcdouble or triple cheeseburger
(this order looks similar for other fast food burger joints like wendys)

Taco Bell:
3 soft taco combo w/ mtn dew
1 steak quesadilla
1 cheesy gordita crunch
1 quesarito
6 cinnabons

It's either that or I order from my local pizza joint. my order will always have at least 1 large 2 topping pizza and mozzarella sticks then i'd either get a burger and fries/cheesesteak/or wings as a side order. I estimate I eat at least 4-5k worth of calories a day

>>16143754
lost 35kg in 3 months, then stalled bc the gyms were closed

>>16143786
have you tried cutting? eating more veggies, stuff like lowfat high protein dairy, chicken, etc?

>>16143833
i'm severely addicted to fast food. in late 2019 i was doing well on a weight loss kick for about 2-3 months where i lost 80 lbs but i relapsed hard. ever since then i've been trying hard to get back on that train but i have no friends, no job, no nothing so it's hard to stay motivated or find a purpose in any of it

>>16143796
that's really good. good job. sounds like the diet is working

>>16143840
maybe try to introduce things 1 by 1 instead of going cold turkey and cutting it? like, start a day with greek yoghurt. snack/munch on veggies like carrots when you can. then gradually, if or when you feel like it, remove excess fast food items that you know are mostly carbs/fat, eg cinnabons. or switching to diet soda, for example.
its ok to fall off the train, one point about diet is making it easy to stick to and allow yourself to eat your favorites instead of going all out.

>>16131824
this is a vegan psyop

>>16139486
Foods that are full of table sugar and/or grease are both calorie dense and nutritionally lacking. Someone who lives off of chocolate cake and Doritos won't get enough vitamin and minerals to be healthy, but they will eat enough calories to get fat.

I wanted a burger really bad but I resisted and ate a big salad instead. Still bad because I used Italian dressing but better than burgers, right

>>16144343
Right

>>16130036
I think they overload on sugar/refined carbs far more than they do fat.

>>16132447
You're a big guy

>>16142544
thanks anon, I'm 20lbs down in 1.5 months, I'm learning how to eat properly and trying to fix my relationship with food. I want to eat without feeling guilty, but that also requires a lot of moderation so you can have a treat every once in a while, but I'm getting there

I <3 Sneed

>>16130036
I eat lean meats, vegetables, and grains, then drink about half a bottle of vodka per day which results in being fat

>>16144986
for you

>>16142551
Yes yes, we all know the optimal, best, and overall healthiest way to lose and manage weight is by monitoring how many calories you eat compared to what you burn.

The issue a lot of people have is that they fall into the trap of eating a high calorie meal with the intention of burning it off later in the day. But then they forgot and don't exercise or don't exercise enough to properly burn off enough calories. That and a lot of people's lifestyles makes it "difficult" for them to have time to exercise. Not saying that it can't be done, but the average person is more than likely going to take to sitting on the couch after a long day of work over jogging a mile or lifting weights or something. So I understand why something like keto or a different fad diet would appeal to people.

>>16130348
drink less you fucking alcoholic, it's not like alcohol is good for even in moderation, but guess what fruit in moderation are very healthy

Going to share what I ate when I was not dieting and what I'm eating now and how I lost 20 pounds in 5 months. I am a 30 yr old female

Jan. 5'7 265lbs (not dieting)

Breakfast- 2-3 servings of sugar loaded cereal (fruitloops, frosted flakes) and like 3 cups of low fat milk.

Lunch- a sandwich with deli meat, double cheese, mayo, mustard, a bag of chips, diet coke

Snack- whatever processed packaged food i can find, usually a sugary granola bar with a diet coke.

Dinner- ordering in... sometimes fast food sometimes not. Ususally get an appetizer, entree and dessert.

After dinner & right before bed- something sweet, a few oreos and milk or a bag of gummy worms


May 5'7 245lbs (on diet)

Breakfast- glass of water, 1/2 cup yogurt, 6 blueberries, 1/4 cup granola, flax seed, chia seed, 2 large strawberries

Snack- 1 serving of Hippeas (chickpea puffs)

Lunch- pimento cheese sandwich

Snack- 7 pineapple chunks and 1 cup cottage cheese

Dinner- 1 vegan sausage, onions bell peppers

I normally dont eat anything after dinner but last night I gave in and had a very small bowl of raisin brand crunch with almond milk

>>16146996
sounds decent, maybe a tad skewed to "health" foods though. be aware that granola and seeds can actually be low on satiety—while called healthy, they may actually leave you feeling hungrier than other foods for same amount of calories. some "healthy" foods like muesli / granola / cereals / seeds rate quite low on satiety scale, around cookies and white bread, so careful with that.
I'd definitely add more veggies here for that reason, you diet sounds like calorie dense foods that don't fill the stomach much (except fruit), and veggies fill that role perfectly with loads of fiber. boiled potatoes are great for weight loss too, fiber + slow digesting carbs.
i'd also add more animal protein too, eg greek yoghurt or chicken breast. it increases satiety and in general makes you less likely to indulge into snacks after eating it.
small tip, you can try eating cottage cheese later, even after dinner. it's high in casein which is a very slow digesting protein that could digest all night.

>>16130036
My roommate is kinda fat, his meals are mostly normal but he drinks multiple cans of soft drinks a day and constantly snacks on candy. He also got weird misconceptions about food like "this flaxseed bread is healthy so it's fine to put a ton of Nutella on it"

Fat people have no idea what or how much they eat. That's why they are fat. I believe their condition must be related to a sort of amnesia about food because their inability to self-report their diet is mind boggling. A fatty can be walking through the office, spot a table of cupcakes, gorge himself on 6 of them, and then immediately forget that it happened. Any time you serve them food, they will eat four, five, or even 6 servings but only remember having eaten one serving. This is the reason why they think calorie counting doesn't work, it's because they only count 30% of what they eat and are physically incapable of recalling all the other food they ate.

>>16130036
First thing I do is go to mcDonalds and get two breakfast combos so i can get two hashbrowns, usually an egg mcmuffin and a bacon egg and cheese biscuit. One with a large OJ and one with a large coffee with cream and sugar.

Lunch I go to a middle of the road bar and grill for a cheese burger with cheese fries and an IPA. This could be just about anything really, there's a lot of bar and grills around here so it's never the same thing. Sometimes I'll get a chicken sandwich instead of the place has decent chicken burgers.

Lunch I go to a nice dinner place like Texas Roadhouse, Longhorn Steak, Outback, or one of the other local places down town if it's a thur or friday.

the weekends I usually cook out, I start with a flat of chicken and bbq that with vinegar spray, and a ham in big fist size chunks. That usually carries me through the weekend. I have a tub of potato salad, a couple of bags of various chips, a case of IPA session beers, maybe a tub of coleslaw, mac and cheese, some rolls, a couple of 2 liters of coke or cherry coke.

I don't really like sweets too much, Just Coke. I get coke with most of my meals, if I'm not getting a $5 IPA. I've been cutting back by not snacking between meals (unless it's the weekend). I don't drink diet coke, it messes with my stomach and gives me a weird feeling in my head.

>>16149391
also I'm only 230 so not really that fat

>>16146801
Wrong, keto optimizes fat burning, it's in the name, the very mechanism by whic it functions. Keto is the opposite of a fad diet, most people can't do keto because they have to beat the cocaine tier sugar addiction they have or they think they're doing keto but they're eating more than 25g of carbs.

>>16150467
It sure does
You're also eating a load of additional fat
Net result: no difference

>>16142551
No you fucking moron it's vegetable oils. Most americans get most calories from vegetable oils and 80% of their calories come from plant sources because of how much pastry, suga, fries and fried food they eat.

>>16150476
No, you need to eat more calories than you would on any other diet in order to not lose weight because not spiking insulin means you're less prone to depositing fat since insulin is no longer constantly signaling your body to store energy. During my last bulk i wasn't even keto, i was omad carnivore and i needed to eat 3000 calories a day just to maintain my weight, 3500 to gain weight and i was super sedentary, only lifting for 3 days a week 2 hours each session.

In the last few months I've been busting my butt working to lose weight. I've worked very hard despite having issues with severe sciatica where my lower back locks up fast and I can barely move my legs. I have to literally force each step when it happens and am in unimaginable pain. This makes me pant and wheeze and sweat....

Through all this, I've come to realize that one of the hardest parts of all this is the optics. As a morbidly obese man, I have a hard enough time going ANYWHERE without feeling eyes boring into me; judging me. Laughing at me. Add me panting, wheezing, gushing sweat, and having to stop and lean on things every few steps because my legs wont move.... it's a nightmare.

It's so freaking embarrassing and even if no one's actually looking at me, or even when people are in my corner encouraging me... I still feel like everyone is thinking "just fucking die, Jabba, you're a waste."

This journey is hard. In so many ways. But I must keep going.

>>16149398
you are massive dude that is a disgusting amount of food and calories

>>16150729
have you considered not shoving 5000kcal into your face every day?

>>16132447
>and then I eat one cone of each flavor.
my sides

>>16150765
So... in the last month I've lost around 7 more pounds of body fat and gained 10-12 pounds of muscle.

That's around 20 pounds lost and 20 pounds of muscle gained in the last few months. Making progress, but I'm not seeing the fat-loss I want to see. Going to keep working hard and see my way through this!

>>16150729
I used to be huge, like unbelievably fat. and I lost the weight. Slowly I went vegetarian, then totally vegan. I lost 90% of the weight I wanted to lose with healthy diet only, no exercise. The rest of the way I needed exercise though. Now I still eat plant based and supplement iodine, b12 (methylcobalamin), d3 (cholecalciferol), magnesium, and a bunch of other stuff, and I eat very clean. No soda, no junk food. I'm still going strong years later. It is possible, but you have to really want it, and have adamantium willpower. I never starved myself, only told myself the truth. Am I hungry, or bored or stressed or depressed? I stopped eating when no longer hungry, not when full.

I am NOT a doctor. Ask your doctor before doing or stopping anything.

>>16150797
did you cut carbs too, or just eliminate animal byproducts?

5'1" 145
Eat extremely healthy and work out every day
but have ibd so inflammation is fucking with my metabolism (burning fewer calories than I should be)
So the doctors say

5'10
155

Wake up, black coffee
12:00pm - 1/3rd of a bi-weekly meal prep consisting of 1 jar of marinara, 1 box of pasta, 1/2lb of ground beef. So 1 third of everything I listed for lunch and a diet coke

afternoon: 2 slices of pizza, diet coke, 3 handfuls of shelled pistachios and a biscotto

can't think of anything else, I usually eat like 8-12oz of ice cream as well but I was out.

>>16151106
None of what he said is true, nobody is vegan for years, 98% quit after two years because the diet is incompatible with human life. Just fast and refeed on keto animal products to satiety you lardass.

>>16150794
whats your calorie intake? 7 pounds per month is a good weight loss rate, anon. higher than that and you may suffer adverse effects and fall off track. now since you're obese, you may go with higher than that. but you need to consider it very carefully and do your research first.
you know what they say… you didn't put on all that weight in a month, you can't drop it all in a month.
>>16150729
>I've worked very hard despite having issues with severe sciatica where my lower back locks up fast and I can barely move my legs.
try avoiding exercises that trigger it. maybe just do stuff like weight lifting, it's possible to lose weight with resistance training if you do it right. just don't stress your back. if you're jogging, try not to—it puts way too much stress on your joints due to weight.
>As a morbidly obese man, I have a hard enough time going ANYWHERE without feeling eyes boring into me; judging me. Laughing at me.
it's mostly in your head anon, it's just a symptom of feeling like shit. truth is, most people don't care. even if some do, remember that you're not defined by your weight. it's just a lump of fat that hangs on your body. it's there today, it'll be smaller in a month, it may be gone in a year.