/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>15059367
You’re slowly killing your body with this diet anon. Vegetables are bad for you. Your guts are probably inflamed all to fuck from the absurd amount of fiber you eat, and you probably have significant levels of oxalates which means those joyous nutrients in your vegetables don’t even get absorbed in your gut. Basically you’re pumping your body full of empty calories. Let alone the fact that you just cannot get some nutrients from a plant based diet.

Hopefully you’ll grow out of this culinary meme anon, and realize that the “moral implications” are retarded because even as a vegan you’re the cause of millions of acres of industrial agriculture. You might not eat animals, but you steal destroy their homes, steal their land and use it to grow your soy which depletes the soil of all nutrients. You’re killing yourself and the animals and the planet. Do better.

I like meat hamburgers. Smash em good. Heck I'm going to make some now. Be right back

>>15059411
>Let alone the fact that you just cannot get some nutrients from a plant based diet.
Like what?

>>15059411
Nice sources

>>15059412
So shit taste in food and beer? Amazing.

>>15059367
This is the only meat vegans love

Highly specialized diets are meme. Carnivore, Keto, Vegetarian, Vegan. They're all too extreme. Balanced diet is the way to go and always eating -100 calories of your TDEE.

>>15059426
Like brotein

>>15059448
>Balanced diet is the way to go and always eating -100 calories of your TDEE.
Some people aren't fat asses like you and don't need to lose weight.

>>15059437
astoundingly based

>>15059367
I work with an obese vegan, who does it for the animals (very involved in an animal activism group as well). He apparently mostly eats hummus, bagels, and Oreo's.

>>15059585
What spread for the bagels?

>>15059606
No idea, but he eats them constantly throughout the day. Super nice guy, but his diet is nowhere near what the 'healthy' vegans go for.

>>15059585
Vegans kill more animals that meatlovers

my go-to is spicy tomato chickpeas (or lentils for more protein).
all you do is sauté some mushrooms, pepper, onions with paprika, cumin, chili flakes and cayenne. add the lentils, tomato sauce and spinach.
you can lay it on a bed on couscous or quinoa

>>15059367
how can a staple be vegan? its an inanimate metal object

>>15059367
That curry looks absolutely fucking delicious.

>>15059691
My curries also end up too red. Am I adding too much tomato sauce? I can't even imagine how much spices you need to get it that orange color.

>>15059426
B12, preformed dha, k2, preformed cholesterol, vitamin d3, preformed vitamin A, heme iron

You also have to worry about calcium, choline, zinc, and lyceine intake. Deficiencies are a serious concern.

The reality is your ancestors going back to monke ate animal products. Veganism is an experiment on yourself. Maybe it works out, maybe you get sick.

Either way, in terms of actually helping animals, the practice of veganism as a boycott literally helps zero animals. Its not like the farmer releases a chicken because you didn't buy one, its slaughtered just the same. And your infinitesimally small reduction in demand is basically irrelevant. And a wider adoption of lower demand would just lead to the farmers whinging more for subsidies and bennies. The boycott will literally never be enough to end factory farming.

What vegans need to do is stop being so fractional, make a respectable organization for political advocacy, and start lobbying governments to eg, stop subsidizing the dairy industry, institute laws like they do withbsmoking (eg no meat eating in school - causes cancer), or positive taxes like they put on cigarettes. Institute animal welfare reforms that cut the profitability of farming. Make farmers actually respect the land, plant riparian zones, shelter belts etc.

Because without the realnworld political change, you're just suffering a nutritionally deficient diet (literally you die without taking pills) for no reason. You're not "saving the animals".

Or someone just needs to infect cows with Corona like what happened to the minks, they all getting culled and the industry will collapse. Funny how after all those years of vegans screeching and pouring paint, what actually ended the industry was a virus.

Pasta rice beans potatoes bread falafel hummus corn chips and oreos

>>15059728
This post is terrible. Only vitamin you mentioned that is kind of true is B12. Except B12 is already supplemented in so many different foods (including your meat products) that it doesn't matter at all.
>ts not like the farmer releases a chicken because you didn't buy one, its slaughtered just the same.
Why am I not surprised you have no concept of supply and demand.

>>15059728
monke eats fruits you tard.
ancestors hunted for meat, meaning it wasn't guaranteed. there's no way meat was a common meal like it is now.

>>15059727
For real. Maybe fancy turmeric is the answer.
Only ever seen it close to that made by Indians and Nepali folk, all my stuff also sucks. I'm actually trying spinach curry tonight...wish me luck.

Honestly salads are underrated, I love how easy they are to throw together. Just your usual lettuce-tomato-cucumber with some firm beans and a good dressing feels fresh as fuck.

Baking root vegetables in the oven along with chickpeas tossed in whichever spices you feel like is really easy too. I like to make a tahini-based sauce with it but I can't find the recipe for it right now.

>>15059411
>Vegetables are bad for you
based

>>15059585
most vegans are unhealthy because they eat way too many fats compared to the amount of carbs

>>15059761
I feel like growing up in America ruined salads for me. Maybe I should try to get a taste for them.

>>15059646
Based carnist that doesn’t understand his food needs to eat too and that only a very tiny percentage of cattle is grass fed.

>>15059783
Why, have you had bad ones?

>>15059761
>Honestly salads are underrated
Edible salads which include meats, yes very. It's practically all I eat

>>15059761
This all the way. One of my favorite lunches is just a salad with cabbage, spinach, bell peppers, beans, and avocado. Adding some whole grains like farro gives a satisfying starchiness too, if you're into that.

>>15059783
As a fellow American who also disliked salads, I think two things are essential for realizing how great salads can be: add a protein (my go-to is chickpeas, but any bean or lentil is a great option), and include a variety of ingredients--just lettuce and tomato and onion doesn't always feel like you're eating an actual meal. Throw some corn and beans on there, and all of a sudden it's more substantial.

>>15059728
Kind of a based post. Lots of vegans love the moral high ground they get to use which makes them insufferable.

I don't eat much red meat and I've tried to incorporate lots of vegetables and also quality (ie not cheap supermarket shit) meat sparingly. Eating beef every day is supremely, retarded and clearly unhealthy and anybody arguing that is a dipshit.

It's good to eat a balanced diet. Meat can be part of that. Clearly you can survive without it - see South India. Just choose what you wanna do and stop making it some kind of big political issue.

>>15059728
>the practice of veganism as a boycott literally helps zero animals. Its not like the farmer releases a chicken because you didn't buy one, its slaughtered just the same

Ever heard of demand-side economics? If there's less demand, there will be less factory farming of animals as a matter of economics.

>And your infinitesimally small reduction in demand is basically irrelevant

Well, then, I may as well not bother. Hell, I may as well stop using the trash can and litter everywhere. I may as well start committing tax fraud. I may as well not care about anything and jump off a bridge.

>B12, preformed dha, k2, preformed cholesterol, vitamin d3, preformed vitamin A, heme iron

If you're a vegetarian (not vegan), zero of these are a concern. If you are a vegan and eat a rounded diet, only B12 and iron may be an issue, and those are trivial to supplement. People cite protein a lot too, but that's trivial to supplement with whey protein (veg) or plant protein powder (vegan).

BTW, how balanced is your diet? How much fast food do you eat? Do you always get your fruits and vegetables? I bet you probably eat like shit.

I'm 35, vegetarian, lift weights 3x a week, and have run several sub-4 hour marathons. Whatever, man.

I wish we could talk about vegan food without meatcucks sperging out.

>>15059828
this board isnt for grass munchers. sorry. >>>/lgbt/ might be more your speed

>>15059828
People who eat meat often make it just as much part of their personality as vegans and vegetarians do. It's sort of sad. It's probably because there's lots of food advertising and memes that steaks are "manly." They seriously think that eating meat makes them more masculine.

Then they get REALLY offended when they realize it's just not necessary at all. Like, my decision not to eat meat is an affront to their lifestyle or something.

>>15059828
I wish vegans could talk about food without bringing up meat but they can't

>>15059832
Haha, holy shit. I was typing this post (>>15059839) when you posted that. I didn't see that one before I posted.

CASE IN FUCKING POINT. OMG.

Seriously, is your sexuality so weak and uncertain that it's threatened by the thought of not consuming animal products? I don't really have that issue, bro. I'm a level 0 on the Kinsey scale and don't eat meat.

You have some thinking to do.

>>15059839
>my decision not to eat meat is an affront to their lifestyle or something.
it's an affront to humanity. eating meat makes you human

>>15059828
Me too. Meeting my vegan and vegetarian friends expanded my culinary world since we make a lot of vegetarian food together. I think I would have been a complete fat fuck without 'em.

I love sambar. I really wanna learn to make a good one. South India food slaps. Though Ghee is used a lot.

>>15059748
>Why am I not surprised you have no concept of supply and demand.

Why don't you spell it out for me then? How does not buying chicken save factory farmed chickens? It doesn't.

What you're advocating for is antinatalism, applied to chickens. No demand for chickens, hatcheries stop producing chickens, chickens go extinct.

If thats the outcome you want, okay. But you should be clear about that and stop framing veganism in terms of "saving the aninals" or being an "animal lover", when you are literally advocating for the abolishment of the species.

>Only vitamin you mentioned that is kind of true is B12.

Why do literally most people (literally, the vast majoroty) who start a vegan diet fail, and go back to eating animal products? Its because of attitudes like yours and bunk science and propoganda that claims you can eat grains and seeds and fruit, and get all your nutritional needs just fine. Its not true. You need to seriously plan a vegan diet. An omni can just eat an egg, or drink some milk and get a shitload of fat soluble vitamins and minerals. A vegan needs to carefully plan

>>15059828
much like you cant get a public internet forum to be left-wing without heavy moderation, you cannot stop people from mocking vegans without heavy moderation :)

>>15059367
I am Vegan and I eat vegan chicken tenders, vegan salami pizza made from beets and oats, vegan split pea hot dogs with organic farm grown mustard seed relish, vegan cheeseburgers made from potato andmy favorite vegan bolognese with tofu beef

>>15059839
>It's probably because there's lots of food advertising and memes that steaks are "manly." They seriously think that eating meat makes them more masculine.
If this ain't projection then I don't know what is

>>15059866
>I think I would have been a complete fat fuck without 'em.
bro if you wanna lose weight then just do fucking keto, only literal retards go vegan/vegetarian just because they wanna lose weight

>>15059859
Wow, you're barely making sense. Nearly every culture throughout history has standards and rules about "acceptable" food products. For example, you probably wouldn't eat dog or cat, but many people don't have that stigma.

Not eating meat at all is a somewhat common one. Many cultures have historically refrained from meat. Sure, it's very much a minority, but there's plenty of examples.

We may as well pick any arbitrary thing. If you don't drink whiskey, you're not human. If you don't watch TV, you're a creep. If you don't like football, you're not a true American. Okay.

>>15059885
sorry i only discuss things with real people

>>15059367
I do most of what you posted, plus a few additions:

1) For breakfast, I usually have a smoothie with greens, frozen berries, a banana, and a tablespoon each of hemp seeds and flaxseeds.

2) I do a lot of veggie stir fries and vegetable soups (I always include a bean or lentil).

3) For quick meals, just prep a large batch of whole grains at the beginning of the week (farro is my favorite; brown rice, quinoa, millet, etc. work as well). Then chop some veggies (peppers, cabbage, onion, etc.) and maybe roast some sweet potatoes. Then, just make a grain bowl by assembling these together, or you can put them into a wrap/burrito. For a dressing, you can use hummus, tahini, or a cashew-cream-based topping.

>>15059885
There are zero cultures in the world that don't eat meat

>>15059823
Nothing you say should be taken seriously as you are a vegetarian, not vegan. You eat animal products. Meat, dairy, leather, veal - it is ONE industry. Its profitability is only viable because of the different sources of income. There is no difference, ethically speaking from buying milk, leather, or meat. You can't boycott meat and buy milk - its the SAME industry.

The abolishment of factory farming doesn't save animals, it ends their lives. Be clear that is the outcome and not "being a better person and saving cows by only drinking milk". Its a joke.

What I'm saying is not to not bother, but rather - bother more. Go vegan, advocate politically. Because yeah at the moment you're just being a faggot still supporting these industries, changing nothing, but feeling morally better because of it. THAT is a detriment to the vegan cause.

Veganism doesn't need 1 million faggots going vegetarian thinking they're doing good. It needs 1000 militants hell bent on real world political change.

>>15059874
Cheeseburgers made from potato?

>>15059915
And tofu

>>15059917
Explain

>>15059909
Jehovah witness

>>15059869
>Why don't you spell it out for me then? How does not buying chicken save factory farmed chickens? It doesn't.

Wow. Just curious, what's your highest level of education?

On a macro level, if there is high demand for meat products, prices will go up, which incentives suppliers to create more output. Then, the increased supply then drives prices down into a stabilization. If there is less demand, prices will fall, which will drive suppliers to reduce output, which then causes prices to reach the same stabilization. The end result is roughly the same prices, but there's less total output (supply) with less demand.

I'm not debating this any further, since it's clear you're either a troll or a moron.

>What you're advocating for is antinatalism, applied to chickens. No demand for chickens, hatcheries stop producing chickens, chickens go extinct.

You cannot seriously think chickens will go extinct without factory farming. What the fuck are you even talking about? Also, I see you've read about "antinatalism" on Google / Wikipedia. Good for you. Yes, I am saying that it's better for animals not to be borne when their entire lives will be spent in cages so small they can't move, in darkness, then later slaughtered. I have basic empathy and think we shouldn't be doing that to sentient creatures. You may disagree.

I'm out.

>>15059869
It would be better for them to be extinct than to exist almost exclusively in torturous conditions. All modern livestock animals are just selectively bred versions of existing animals anyway, so they would not even exist as a species without the prolonged efforts of animal husbandmen. Hell, I'd even be okay with keeping the meat industry around if demand got so low that the animals were kept on smaller farms and could be housed more humanely. I just don't really think that is realistic, as meat corporations will always be driven to maximize profits at the expense of animal welfare as long as doing so is legal.

>>15059885
This is a perfect imitation of some 18-25 year old fedoralord, how do you make it so convincing?

>>15059909
India, moron.

>>15059930
Cows and chickens are treated better than vegans at least they are allowed to eat meat and not starve to death

>>15059909
wut
vegetarianism is super common historically in hindu and buddhist cultures.

Y'all tree huggers know that plants feel pain?

>>15059947
They respond to stimuli but don't have a central nervous system or cerebrum.

>>15059930
Okay. Then why is veganism selling itself as "animal liberation", being a lover and carer of animals, looking out for animal interests when in reality when vegans are pressed on the issue, what they want is the eradication of all domesticated species?

Whats going on here? Why the sleight of hand?

>>15059961
Wait, so you think you're actually helping the animals by breeding them, raising them in horrible conditions, then slaughtering them? I disagree and think we should stop doing that.

>>15059945
No it isn't since vegetarians can't reproduce

>>15059975
I have real problems in my life bro I dont have time to be morally outraged about a chicken

>>15059883
Generally eating more veg and pulses and sparing meat is clearly healthy, what is the point of your buttblasted post? I never implied that veg was the best diet for anything only that in my case it trended to me eating healthier.
Fuck off, "bro".

>>15059975
it's not stopping in your lifetime or ever

>>15059961
Vegans kill more animals than meat eaters

Stop replying to the retards and get me that tahini-sauce recipe

>>15059909
What is india? Are you actually that ignorant?

>>15059961
It's not sleight of hand. First of all, veganism covers more than just meat consumption; using animals for cosmetic testing/harmful experiments, etc. is also a goal of veganism, and this would not result in a species going extinct. Second, the eradication of domesticated species is not the goal of veganism. At best its a side effect of the real goal: putting an end to the unnecessary systematic torture and slaughter of sentient beings. As I've said before, if that means the extinction of domesticated animals, that may not be the goal, but it is certainly preferable to the current state of affairs.

>>15059987
do you have a singular fakta to back that up

>>15059727
>My curries also end up too red. Am I adding too much tomato sauce?
Given that most curries don't contain tomato, yes, you are probably adding too much tomato.

>>15059986
>stop pushing for the abolition of slavery; it won't happen in your lifetime or ever
This kind of defeating thinking is myopic and counterproductive. You're a slave to societal convention and personal habit.

>>15059999
>if that means the extinction of domesticated animals, that may not be the goal, but it is certainly preferable to the current state of affairs.
Man you people need to go outside, your bubble is making you insane

>>15060013
>slavery
you're mentally ill m8

>>15060013
speaking of societal convention, how many vegans actually care and arent just being trendy or trying to appear virtuous

>>15059975
No I think vegans should just be clear and stop pussyfooting around. You don't "help" animals by extincting them. You want to see a world without factory farming, because it is a moral outrage. Okay. Institute political change to bring this about then.

But don't sell it as not eating chicken "helps" the chickens or saves the chickens. You want domesticated chickens to be eradicated. Literally wiped off the face of the earth. The vegan boycott of these industries doesn't do a damn thing for these chickens, and veganism if instituted eradicates them entirely.

You would be more honest if you just said I hate domesticated chickens and want to see them all be killed and have the breed go extinct.

>>15060019
I was drawing an analogy between meat production and slavery to reveal the reductio ad absurdum of his mindset, not to equate animal husbandry to human slavery.

>>15060028
4chan really does radicalize people, this person has talked himself into gassing millions of chicken

>>15059999
Veganism is evil. You literally want to extinct domesticated species and yet claim its because you care about animal interests. That is deranged and evil.

>>15060027
In the end, it doesn't matter. You should judge a philosophy by ideas and reasoning, not the behavior of its adherents. Moreover, even if all vegans were doing so simply to virtue signal, it would still be a net positive if it reduced the unnecessary suffering of animals in the process.

>>15059925
Witnesses eat meat. They've got hangups on consuming blood, and managed to turn that into a refusal to take blood transfusions, and they won't eat black pudding, but otherwise they eat mass-produced non-Kosher/non-Halal meat just the same.

Since this thread got AIDs I'll try and salvage it. This is an authentic hummus recipe.

can of chic peas. 15/16 oz ones (rinse and boil these first)
half a lemon
one large garlic clove or a couple small ones
1/2 cup tahini
tablespoon of cumin or so
salt to taste
blend and add water till the consistency is right
then add olive oil and fresh parsley and paprika as garnishes
serve with pita bread (toasted or just heated)

>>15060028
Jesus the autism

>>15059925
>>15060042
t. grew up as a JW

>>15060013
If I personally boycott slavery, does slavery as institution become abolished?

If I say to the slave owners, make your slaves stop having children so they all are bred out of existence, is that a moral good?

You vegans are insane.

>>15060041
Except vegans kill 10 times as many animals as meat eaters

>>15060041
i wouldve expected for you to at least try to deny it saying something like most people care lmao

>>15060055
Source?

>>15060050
Vegans hate life, are antilife, and it is no coincidence that there's a heavy overlap between veganisn and antinatalism. They want the destruction of species (or even humanity itself) and try to sell it as a moral good. They are fundamentally speaking, evil.

>>15060048
What do you blend it with? I’ve tried with a hand blender but I can’t get it smooth enough unless I dilute it too much.

>>15060053
>If I personally boycott slavery, does slavery as institution become abolished?
No, but ethically I avoid cashews, avocados sourced in Mexico, and non-fair trade chocolate just the same. My phone and PC were both made in the ROC, rather than PRC, as well.

>>15060053
bad comparison domesticated animals would die in the wild, niggers are people like you and me they can

>>15059791
All cows are grass fed tardhat. It's just that very few cows are grass finished.

>>15060056
Didn't need to. I happen to think most vegans do genuinely care, but even if I grant the previous poster's point, it does nothing to actually weaken the stance of veganism.

>>15060053
If enough people had stopped buying slaves to use as farm labor, the institution would have shrunk considerably until keeping slaves would become taboo enough to either result in legislation against it or a strong social pressure to stop. As to your second point, this is a false equivalence. With slaves, you could "release" them into society and they could live as free individuals, a much better option than killing them. Domesticated animals would likely not survive in the wild.

>>15060055
Unsubstantiated claim does not warrant a response.

>>15060061
Vegans pay $10 for a fake cheeseburger and the Mexican takes the $10 and buys 10 real cheeseburgers with it. Its basic science that Vegans are monsters but their brains don't work so have a meat eaters explain it to you 4 times

https://youtu.be/cKvEnPehemE
this is the guy in this thread telling you to stop eating meat

>>15060072
I just use a blender. But my blender is shit so I have to turn the blender on, turn it off, mix it by hand with a spoon so I get the non blended stuff towards the blade, and repeat until it's done. I guess it would be easier with a food processor.

>>15060082
>All cows are grass fed tardhat
So you have literally no idea where your food comes from these days? The vast majority of cattle are corn fed (inb4 'corn is a grass!') meaning that their food must be grown in a field similar to human food. Some energy is lost when going up the food chain, so it requires more corn to grow 1000 kcal than just eating the corn straight to get 1000 kcal. Obviously different nutrients in each, but the argument of "vegans kill more animals than meat eaters" is based entirely on the concept of threshers killing animals when food is harvested. Cow feed is threshed too, and there needs to be more of it.

>>15060099
lol

>>15060106
No one is proselytizing veganism in this thread. They are just responding to meathead arguments and (likely) trolls.

>>15060073
The only thing this achieves is you personally feeling morally better because of it. Its self serving righteousness.

Does a woman stop suffering chemical burns because you buy "ethical" cashews? Are Mexican slave laborers better off because you buy cali avos? No. Does you boycotting these business make any fucking difference whatsoever? No.

You think somehow some poverty striken cashew pellers life in sri Lanka is better off because you didn't pay the corporation that distributes the nut around the world .00000000000001% of its annual revenue?

Boycotts are pointless without the realnworld political advocacy behind it. To boycott something should not be seen as the end goal/moral good, but rather nothing more than the prerequisite to advocate for genuine reform/change. The boycott, in itself, is a waste of fucking time.

>>15060099
As opposed to a meat eater paying $10 for a real cheeseburger and then the mexican buying 10 more?

>>15060119
>Its self serving righteousness.
Yep, sure is, and I feel better about it.

>>15060077
>what are feral dogs, pigs, horses, cats, fish (carp etc), goats, etc.

>>15059930
>People abuse livestock
Therefore livestock should go extinct
>People abuse dogs
therefore dogs should go extinct
>People abuse other people
therefore people should go extinct

That's how you sound. And then you go on an elitist tirade on how only the wealthy should get to eat meat.

No shit animal welfare should be prioritized, but I also think this is the fault of assholes who don't want to put any effort into connecting with their food. There are SO many god damn vegans I have spoken to who refuse to so much as grow a fucking tomato or even some god damn bucket potatoes because its too much work for them and they'd rather sit and play vidya and buy the latest imitation meat like some sort of Brave New World NPC.

Vegans are so disconnected from their food, they refuse to actually speak to people who produce food, instead opting to get their "information" from north Korean grade propaganda. You can't see things with an unbiased eye. Maybe you compare meat eaters to racists because if you actually lived in the south in the 1950s you'd be the ones who would be actively pro segregation because you'd believe blacks carry diseases.

Meanwhile I have spoken to all kinds of farmers, conventional, organic, large, small, even fucking veganic farmers. And you know what? I made up my own mind and I produce my own food. Fuck all yall.
Food sovereignty>veganism

>>15059411
Do you watch rick and morty?

>>15060119
Can't you do both? Can't boycotting take place alongside lobbying? Why does it have to be one or the other?

>>15059367
VEGAN STAPLES
> vegetable oil
> sugar
> soy
> flour

>>15060131
bro are you retarded
wild animals were born in the wild

>>15060112
Based post.

>>15060119
...Aaaand we're right back to the arguments of "if you can't personally end this practice it's not worth even trying" and "I don't understand how economics works."

>>15060128
Then you're nothing but a hedonist, and nondifferent from a carnivore. Only difference is they weren't born or indoctrinated into feeling guilty. You don't want reform or change, just to serve your own feelings, in the way a meat eater feels good stuffing mcpoison down his throat

>>15060131
>>what are feral dogs
Not the dogs that have spent their entire lives laying on sofa

>vegan staples
got one right here

>>15060141
>vegetable oil
I use olive oil rather than vegable oil even for frying things
>sugar
I actually don't stock sugar at home.
>soy
I don't bother stocking this either. It's too hard to cook
>flour
Very rarely I'll use this to thicken sauces

As a vegan I'm almost certain I eat less soy and sugar than you. Your precious meat you get at restaurants probably has soy filler.

>>15059727
It's about adding some sort of cream. I usually go for soya cream, but coconut milk is a good option too. This makes it have a way way way better color.

>>15060148
>and nondifferent from a carnivore
I mean, I eat meat too. Not a vegan, I don't feel the same empathy for animals that I feel for humans, I'm just in the thread for recipes.

>>15060160
>restaurant

Only a vegan would be dumb enough to go to a restaurant

>>15060112
>So you have literally no idea where your food comes from these days?
My nextdoor neighbor is literally a beef farmer. And I live ON a conventional corn/soy farm which I am converting to regenerative pasture, polyculture, organic, no till crops and prioritizing perennials over annuals. I have a better idea of where my food comes from than you do.
My neighbors cows eat grass, hay, and then are fattened up on field corn, silage, and ethanol byproducts, they are very much conventional cows.

There are more issues in crop production than harvester combines, there are pesticides for one. But then there are issues with the effects of artificial fertilizer runoff from hydrophobic overtilled soil getting into streams and gulfs, causing mass fish dieoffs. Shit, even the production of said artificial fertilizers are causing issues. Just look at the sinkholes in Florida from the phosphorous mining from Mosaic. Don't even get me started on the draining of aquafers for irrigation monocrops like almonds, avocados, bananas, and thirsty fruits and vegetables that can't be given green water like livestock.

Do not assume I am as ignorant as you are.

Short of eating 250g of dried beans every day, how do you guys get your protein? Pea protein powders in the curry?

>>15060134
I understand your point, and I agree that many people have lost their connection the food they eat, both animals and plants. However, I have to say that you seem to be either assuming that I have views that I do not (e.g., meat eaters = racists) or you are misconstruing what I am saying. My argument is not that livestock animals should go extinct because they are mistreated or that only rich people should be able to eat meat. My argument is that animals should not be mistreated and that everyone (rich and poor) should drastically reduce their meat consumption (if not eliminate it altogether) to further this end. However, I don't think there is really a way to ethically raise and kill animals to meet massive global demand. If we could all be homesteaders, that would be, in many ways, a great world to live in. However, since we can't, I don't think meat can be produced industrially without serious moral concerns.

>>15060194
Meat

>>15060186
This really is a strange board.

>>15060192
>LITERALLY LIVES ON A SOY FARM

You can't make this stuff up.

>>15060208
Are you mad to find out that veganism causes brain damage?

>>15060192
That's a lot of words to completely ignore the entire basis of my argument. Every single one of your points applies to both a carinvore and vegan diet, but a carnivore diet requires more land and will result in more of it. It's literally that simple.

How does a vegan diet kill more animals than a meat eater?

>>15060181
I was just thinking about whipping up some curray for may kurrean girlfiend, thx, she will love it!

>>15060194
Couple notes on protein.
1. People GROSSLY overstate the amount of protein you need, even for body building. Actual recommended guidelines are much less than you find randomly asking around.
2. There's protein in almost everything. Tomatoes, Eggplant, Bread? That all has protein. It adds up.

I just make sure the grains I eat are whole grains and make sure at least one dish a day is "protein heavy". (e.g. lentils, beans, nuts)

>>15060246
you need 1g per 1kg protein, 80g or however much you weigh does not "add up" from bread and tomatoes

>>15060246
>even for body building
>.08/kg of lean body mass. That's just under 100g for Big Guys4U. Can be knocked out with 1lb of chicken breast, but it would take a fuckload of beans to get there. Doable with eggs, but they're vegetarian, not vegan.

>>15059411
Nobody cares faggot. You only get desert when you eat those vegetables.

>>15060260
Bro science bullshit

>>15060281
you need more than 1g per 1kg if you workout

>>15060260
It does if you eat beans, whole grains, nuts, etc.
>>15060264
Check out this clip from JRE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTyGP5hCtBQ
He presents a comparative breakdown between various omni and plant-based meals, showing that it is frivolously easy to get enough protein on a plant-based diet.

>>15060246
The issue is vegans get zero protein practically all they eat is candy and potato chips and fake meat

>>15060291
I'm not going to watch a half hour Joe Rogan episode. Yeah yeah, take DMT, smoke weed, etc etc etc

>>15060140
Of course. My point is that the boycott *in itself* leads to no (or such a small difference to be meaningkess) moral change or good in the world. BUT, in order to effectively advocate for change, you must participate in the boycott (or people will laugh and call you a hypocrite).

My argument in this thread is the exact same but applied to veganism. Veganism, as a boycott of immoral industries, achieves zero moral good. BUT, the boycott must be adopted for you to be an effective vegan advocate.

The way I see it, veganism is not a diet but a political and social movement that seeks real-world moral good and change. And we are never getting there if people think participating in the boycott is the end goal - the moral good of veganism. Simply abstaining does nothing, if you're not politically involved and advocating for vegan causes.

Slaveey didn't end because people boycotted it out of existence. It took real, militant politicians and in the end armies to abolish it. The guy that sat there idly by feeling superior because he didn't personally own slaves, didn't achieve a fucking thing.

Again what veganism needs isn't 1 million boycotters- it needs 1000 militants willing to lobby governments, pass legislation, doneducation in schools, etc.

Imagine what a win it would it be for veganism, if animal products were taken off the menu in school lunches, in the same way we banned smoking in schools. You don't get there by thinking the boycott is where veganism starts and ends.

>>15060300
>stupid vegans get zero protein practically all they eat is candy and potato chips and fake meat
FTFY. Yes, there are "junk food vegans" out there. That doesn't invalidate the whole diet.

>>15060320
It does, veganism is a death cult

>>15059367
I'm not vegan but if I were I'd want to live in Tamil Nadu.

>>15060329
>veganism is a death cult
based

>>15060312
I think we're on the same page then. I completely agree. I think that veganism is still too fringe to have much hope of making changes as big as outlawing meat in school lunches, but it's certainly growing. I think the moral argument is strong, but I think the health arguments and the environmental arguments would be the most useful for effecting change in the way you're suggesting.

Just out of curiosity, what is your stance on a plant-based diet generally? Ignoring insane vegans, stupid arguments, etc., what do you think about the claims about the healthfulness of a well-balanced plant-based diet and about the claimed harm of meat to the body and evironment?

>>15060197
We really don't need to drastically reduce meat consumption. The only people who need to reduce food consumption are obese people.

No one should be mistreated. But the fact is we are. Its not just animals who are mistreated. We are so disconnected from everything in modern society that mental illness and human isolation is more prominent than ever.
How are we going to fix our relationship with animals when we don't even know how to treat our fellow man.

And I do think there is a way to raise and kill animals to feed communities that doesn't involve these massive overworked and over consolidated USDA inspected processing facilities (did you know there are only 800 of them in the country?!). But there are issues. Agriculture as a whole is an incredibly consolidated industry. Only 1 percent of the United states population is even farming. Compare that to the 20 percent 100 years ago.
And 100 years ago (this is post industrial revolution, mind you) a chicken farm that slaughtered 400 birds a year was considered massive.
People would still eat meat. I have to imagine when people could they would get a whole cow and/or pig to feed their families and communities for a long time. I have 1/4 cow I got a few months ago and I still have barely made a dent in it.

Another thing that bugs me is the rapid growth of cities while the countryside is dying. You say it's impossible for us to have more farmers? Why? What if someone wants to be a farmer? If agriculture is 1% of the working population and the average age is 65, why can't we have more farmers? Especially young innovative farmers who are interested in regenerative, low input farming that is so cost efficient that they actually become independent of government subsidies?

Cities are growing as fast as they ever have, with cost of living becoming more and more expensive, meanwhile where I live the population has dropped by 1/3rd and continues to fall since the 1990s. What gives?!

>>15060221
It depends on the vegan and meat eater. Lets say you raise your own cow on your land, you rotate the pasture and when the cow is big enough you slaughter the cow. The cow ate cover crops (clover, alfalfa, hairy kvetch, etc) and other grasses. You did not till, spray, or do anything to the land except have your cattle graze on it.
Kill count for your one cow per year=1.

A vegan who lives in the city, relies on global imports and processed foods, how many animals will they kill? Probably more than one, since the land its grown on will be monocropped, tilled, and sprayed.

And also I don't advocate a carnivore diet. I advocate food sovereignty. You can say it's impossible to raise cattle on primarily pasture, but it's how it was done before industrial ag, and it's how it's being done now for some folks. I mean some people said it was impossible for horseless carriages, space travel, and electronic mail. But here we are.

>>15060246
Even conservative amounts still put the recommended 50g for random skinnyfat who doesn't go near a gym at 250g dried beans a day

A single serving of beans is like 50g, so the above feels basically impossible unless you're able to afford and stomach all those highly processed imitation meat products.

>>15060119
I don't give a shit about veganism but jesus christ you're a retard
>if you can't personally change the entire industry then there's no point trying

>>15060038
>Veganism is evil
and retarded

>>15059367
kind of hard to follow up when you start out with the best things a vegan could eat