/ck/ - Food & Cooking

Baking some rye/whole wheat sourdough this weekend. Probably will use loaf pans because sammich.

>>14088730
Just my usual for the kids

>>14088774
those look great

>>14088730
Few moths ago, I made a test loaf of sweet bread from a recipe from my grandma.
Something went very wrong with it and I got some nasty nausea bout an hour after eating it.
Now I get nauseous every time I catch the smell of biological leaveners.
I loved those sweet breads.

made some ricotta bread yesterday, but the yeast was old it seems and didn't rise much. It was delicious though. Very moist crumb, goes well with butter

>>14088774
adopt me

>>14089433
no.

>>14088730
How do I make bread like ancient farming settlements did?

>>14090163
sourdough in an earthen oven

Second attempt at sourdough, don't have a proofing bowl so it's not overly pretty, and scoring needs more practice. Still, a lot better than my first attempt, I managed to knick my hand with the razor I was using to score the dough and noticed when it was too late. Blood all over the dough, tasted all right though.

>doughs kept coming out as a sticky fucking disaster when I was using whatever AP flour I could find at the store
>buy some fancy artisan shit and all of the sudden my dough has structure and holds together and I can fold it and shape it and slash it
Holy shit why did I not try this before. Now I know for next time I don't need a shitload of flour on the banneton to get it to not stick.

Im trying to make a 70% hydration sourdough bread and even after 8 sets of folds this shit still can't hold its fucking shape. It feels way wetter and stickier than it should be. What the fuck could i be doing wrong?

>>14091069
Flour type? Length of bulk prove? Insufficient kneading?

Hey so im making a sourdough starter
Any chance i can use the discard for Zurek?

For those not familiar, its a polish fermented rye soup. The process to make it is a lot like making a starter.
500 ml water
140 ml rye flour
garlic, bay leaf, pepper corn and other stuff.

Instead of doing daily feedings you just mix the flour that settled at the bottom back into the water.

I was thinking, if i take discard, mix it with water and add some garlic into the final cook, i could make basically the same result.

Im guessing lots of cultures have similar things, so maybe yall have some insight.

>>14091761
to add, the starter mixture is mixed into stock and cooked. In case that felt left out.

I would be adding garlic to the stock, rather than the starter discard.

Whats your favorite keto bread recipe?
I did one where you use almond flour and psyllium for elasticity and its perfectly fine bread substitute.

>>14091029
How did I do? I guess my scoring wasn't deep enough and the right loaf is a little lopsided, but fuck it's delicious.

>>14091893
show crumb niggy

>>14092394
This isn’t instagram. He didn’t make 20 loaves to take that pic. He wants them to stay fresh.

>>14092394
I forgot to take a photo when I cut it, but here's a slice.

>>14092835
I slice them after a few hours and keep the slices in a ziplock bag, seems to be the best way to keep them. I also froze one of the loaves, I honestly don't think freezing affects the flavor at all.

>>14092835
You're a fat retard buddy, he said he already cut one open.

>>14092856
oh and nice, good sheen on the eyes. looks pretty solid.

Rate my bread.

Recipe is 225g starter, 82g whole wheat flour, 260g white flour, 30 min autolyse, add salt, coat hands generously with grapeseed oil and knead. Wait 1 hour and fold. Wait 1 hour and shape, put on parchment in a Dutch oven for 3 hours then preheat, egg wash, add Korean sesame and score. 25 min lid on 25 min lid off

Tastes really good but the scoring is a fuckin disaster help me bros

it slid out of the basket and messed up the shape but I think it came out ok considering

>>14090644
The inside

Day 4 of my first starter, im proud of myself

>>14091029
>Now I know for next time I don't need a shitload of flour on the banneton
use rice flour if you aren't already and can get it

is baking a sourdough in a gas oven impossible or just hard?

>>14093970
looks good anon!

>>14094874
shouldn't be that bad, just make sure to place a pan of water while it's preheating. it helps get the oven steamy so there is quicker heat transfer to the bread.

If I understand correctly, the key to oven spring is to start baking when the yeast is at the height of it's activity, but before it uses up ??? and goes dormant.
This means catching the sweet spot between under-proofing and over-proofing.
Is there any way of telling where the dough is in this sense?
If you've gone too far, the dough goes sticky, but by then it's too late.
If it's not rising, something(?) is wrong, and there's no point in starting the bake.
I know finger poke with slow springback is a good sign, but that's pretty vague.

Anything else that could help, or is it just case of memorizing exactly what works for you, and it just works most of the time?

>>14095940
>I know finger poke with slow springback is a good sign, but that's pretty vague.
how is that vague? if it doesn't fill in, it's over-proofed. if it fills in quickly, it's not done proofing. for sourdough, it's usually better to slightly under-proof the dough.

oven temperature, gluten development, and moisture also affect oven spring.

>>14096312
>how is that vague?
Because I haven't been able to use it effectively.
I've been posting in the other bread thread that died last night because I can't get any oven spring.
Most of my loaves are apparently over-proofed and don't rise.
Yesterday I tried again, this time only letting the dough rise twice.
Finger poke worked fine, but still no oven spring.
The only comments I got on the description said it was under-proofed.
I'm really lost here, but it seems I'm failing to hit the sweet spot between under-proofing and over-proofing.

(using dry active yeast, btw, never could get sourdough to work)

>oven temperature, gluten development, and moisture also affect oven spring.
Oven temp is 450, gluten looks good as it windowpanes well.
I always put a pyrex bowl of water in before starting the preheat. I've also tried with or without a dutch oven, lid on for the first 20 minutes. Another Anon suggested throwing a shot of water into the dutch oven as well.

I've never got sourdough to work, but my first two yeast bread loaves worked great, but now the same recipe just won't spring.
I'm trying variations to see what happens, but it just seems like nothing works.
My yeast proofs fine, and the dough proofs OK, but then, no spring.
So I'm thinking I'm not hitting the sweet spot between under and over proofing the dough, and looking for any way to tell where I am in that timeline.

You workin hard or hardly workin /ck/?

>>14089072
you just need to desensitize yourself, give it some time

>>14096625

>>14096671

>>14096691
Don't tell me, I already know

>>14096699
Double recipe

>>14096708
Getting ready to rest in the fridge while the bread machine does it's thing

>>14096723
Plot twist- bread boules!

A friend gifted me a breadmaker recently.
I know it's a bit of a meme to be using one, but how do I start making bread with this?

I'm doing my borscht bread again. Didn't have time to roast the beets this time so we'll see how that goes. Also dialed back prefermented flou from 40% to 20%. Today's been a bit of a shit show but hopefully it will all come together in the end.

I just made 300g white flour - 500g whole flour
knead the hell out of it (still don't quite know wth am I doing), and am gonna leave over night, at least 12h
will likely be baguette shaped at the end
what am I in for? if I'm leaving it growing overnight shouldn't I have knead so much?

>>14093972
what about used bread crumb flour? you know the ones the they make from left over bread
>>14091893
it looks pretty fucking good anon, the scoring was fine, its just to let it grow without blowing up

>>14090120

>>14097229
the thing already grew the fuck ton, should I be worried leaving this thing overnight?

>>14088730

>>14097274
You need to punch it down then oil a bowl and put the bread in the bowl, cover with saran wrap, put in fridge. Take out tomorrow and let it come to room temp. Otherwise it'll turn to shit overnight.

>>14097053
It came with a recipe booklet, look for bread machine books. I pretty much just use ours to make dough for cinnamon rolls, pizza, french bread, etc. The loaves are shaped terribly if you actually bake the bread in it.

>>14097217

Bulk proof on these guys was about 4 hours. I'm gonna let em sit another hour here then fridge em until tomorrow.

>>14098008
Good looking loaf.
How did the crumb come out?
I'm having a lot of trouble getting good oven spring, and after much study, I'm beginning to suspect that little to no scoring is a way to maximize oven spring.
I know that sounds wrong, but hear me out.
I've only ever made two loaves (out of over a dozen) that had good crumb. One of them, I completely forgot to score the top.
Conventional wisdonm says "score the top so the power of your oven spring doesn't explode the loaf.
But I can't get any oven spring, so I'm pretty sure I'm in no danger of exploding the loaf due to excess yeast action.
Wouldn't it help your crumb to score the top very little, or not at all?
I ask about your loaf in particular because I'm seeing what looks like minimal scoring here, and no actual "ear". Thoughts?

>>14097813
Really? how bad?
I just went there, the thing was nearly flooding, about double size though, I just fingered it to check for consistency and it quickly deflated
I gave a quick fold and put it back, its already covered, with an extra wet towel on top, and we're having particular cold weather these days

I'm just asking to be sure and understand on why for some things its better to leave overnight and for other it isn't

>>14098129

I would say that if you're not getting good oven spring, there are larger factors to consider and change that will affect the loaf as a whole more than simply whether or not you're scoring.

What's your recipe and process looking like?

My starter hasn't doubled in size yet. I've been feeding it twice a day for a week now.

>>14098185

Is it showing any activity at all?

>>14098162
https://www.ehow.com/info_12306190_happens-leave-bread-dough-rise-long.html

How bad is it to use volumetric measurements for baking compared to mass, I don't have a scale but I have measuring cups

>>14098198
>https://www.ehow.com/info_12306190_happens-leave-bread-dough-rise-long.html
see there is the thing, this technically is the first rise (or was before I meddled), for some guides I've seen they suggest deflating the dough anyway before the final shaping, which I only intend to do tomorrow, baguette shapes
the first recipe I followed had me folding and resting for four times in 45 min intervals before going for shaping and a final proofing

the conflicting part is about what I read with sourdough, that you leave it fermenting for a long time, and that process helps with breaking down nutrients making it better for the belly overall, considering I'm making about 66% whole flour I thought it might be a valid option

>>14098187
Yeah it bubbles plenty but small bubbles. Worried I might not have enough wild yeast

>>14098212
>>14098198
btw, I put it on the fridge regardless with a humid towel as well just to be safe,
I think the bit that got me confused was the no knead recipes, why I asked what is the actual relation between the two

>>14098208
weight is just much more easier to measure and be accurate, but volume works just fine too if you don't overdo

>>14098219

Just keep at it then. If it's active that means there is yeast in there, and those little friends will reproduce and colonize the whole thing in time.

>>14097672
looks good, what is the thing next to the brownies(I assume they're brownies)

>>14098212

Are you doing a pure sourdough with no added yeast? What percent of your total flour is included in the preferment? Also, with whole wheat heavy doughs, proofing times often need to be shortened, as yeast eat that shit up.

>>14098233
see >>14097229
I did use regular yeast, the dried type mixed in with some water for a while
the last time I used full whole flour in >>14098212
>the first recipe I followed had me folding and resting for four times in 45 min intervals before going for shaping and a final proofing
and it barely grew at all, the final result turned out pretty dense and crumby, even though it was delicious

from what I understood, when I folded the though just now, it seemed to be about just right for the final shaping, about doubled the size, even though it deflated with the finger test

>>14098255

Finger test is for right before the oven when it's in its final loaf shape, not to test bulk fermentation finality. If you used any commercial yeast in it at all an overnight bulk ferment at room temperature is going to be way too long. Generally, combination yeast/sourdough doughs won't bulk ferment for more than 3 hours. If it feels ready, go ahead and divide, round, and shape it, and if you really really really want the benefits of a long fermentation, put it in the fridge for maybe 12 hours maximum during its final proof.

Made naan in a skillet yesterday. Would've taken a picture if I knew this thread was up. The dough from modernist bread's recipe is just super sticky, so I sort of use a no knead method where I put it in the fridge and give it a fold whenever I walk past for about a day and a half.

Came out great. Will see if someone else took a picture

>>14098208
One trick is to scoop the flour from the bag into the cup vs. trying to scoop with the cup itself, supposedly scooping with the cup itself can compact the flour too much.

>>14098225
I'd be worried that the towel would dry out in the fridge or wouldn't be enough to keep the dough moist. Generally when you put dough in the fridge you cover it directly with cling wrap so it doesn't dry out on top.

>>14098268
yeah I'm leaving it in the fridge anyway, its nearly 2AM here, and I was aiming for a early bird baking
what I don't understand is the finality for each step and how it affects the final product, like fermentation surely isn't just about creating gas to expand the dough
for example, is the simplest of recipes just knead -> ferment -> bake process?
I'm fairly sure most recipes/guides I saw had a shaping step besides the knead
or for example the 4x knead/rest recipe I mentioned earlier, what is the purpose there?

here was my previous try for reference, it turned out a bit like australian/german black bread, besides overdoing a bit with the white flour puff, I'm wondering what needed to be done to improve, more growth and crisper crust

>>14098344
>Generally when you put dough in the fridge you cover it directly with cling wrap so it doesn't dry out on top
well, its a pan, so there is the towel and the pan cover on top, the pan doesn't have a seal of course, but both together should do the trick

>>14098373
Vital wheat gluten helps with growth, I think for crisp you mist the bread itself or have a pan of water in the oven or something to make it steamy, I never get a crispy crust on my french bread.

>>14098165
>What's your recipe and process looking like?
I found a ciabatta recipe that worked very well for the first tow loaves of yeast bread I baked, but just hasn't worked since.
Here's the recipe:
Mix 400 grams flour, 280 grams water, let autolyse 1 hour
In a mason jar, mix 28 grams, 100 degree water, teaspoon sugar, tablespoon dry active yeast
let yeast proof 15 minutes, comes out super foamy
meanwhile, add tablespoon salt to main dough
once yeast /water/sugar mix foams up, add to main dough.
knead dough 2-3 minutes
put dough in covered bowl in oven with light on (85-90 degrees)
let rise 30-40 minutes until doubled in size
stretch and fold 2-3 minutes (dough windowpanes well at this point)
form loaf, put back in oven with light on, allow second rise
remove loaf, preheat oven to 450 with pyrex bowl of water and dutch oven inside
score loaf
scatter corn meal in dutch oven, place loaf inside
bake 20 minutes, remove lid from dutch oven
bake 30 more minutes, until test toothpick comes out dry

The first two loaves used this process, but with three rises instead of two, and a 3 hour autolyse, and that worked great, then I tried that about 3-4 more times and after the third rise the dough was ultra sticky, and eventually I came to understand this probably meant the dough was over-proofed, and didn't have any rise left.
I also was told in another thread the 3 hour autolyse was too long, so I shortened it to 1 hour.
So the last time I tried with only two rises (as listed above), and this time it rose slightly better, but still had a really poor crumb.
Showing pics in another thread, I was told this loaf was probably under-proofed.
And that's where I am now. Not really sure what is going wrong, but listening to others and theor advice, It sounds like I was over-proofing the dough with three rises, but I'm now under-proofing the dough with two rises.
So I'm mostly asking if there's any way to tell how far along a dough is in terms of under-proofed vs over-proofed.

>>14098373

The bulk fermentation process accomplishes two things.

1) Fermentation - this is most prevalent with sourdough and least prevalent with commercial yeast, but the living things in bread consume nutrients from the flour and essentially shit them out as things that give the bread better flavor. Up to a point, the longer the bulk ferment, the more sour and complex the flavor of the bread will be.

2) Gluten development - even just water mixed with flour will develop some gluten strength over time. Pair that with microbes actively shitting out CO2 to expand the dough and you have a slow acting kneading process going on, in essence.

Kneading, whether in a machine, on a countertop, or in the form of folds over a period of time, simply supercharge the gluten development process. Figuring out a balance between gluten development and fermentation is what determines how you knead your dough. If you get it up to full strength in a mixer, you can probably fold it once an hour later and have a total bulk fermentation time of 3-6 hours, less if adding commercial yeast. If you're only folding, you can more slowly develop the gluten and allow the fermentation to happen over a longer period of time, say, 15 hours at room temperature as the overnight recipes in FWSY call for.

At the end of the day, you need to decide what you want your fermentation to look like, and adjust your kneading and your recipe to match.

>>14098391

Judging the bulk ferment is probably the hardest part of baking. 3 rises is definitely out of the norm. The only time I've ever heard of more than a bulk and then final ferment is from a bakery in Italy making focaccia, wherein they were working up around 90% hydration in a very warm room and would let the dough rise and fall several times over the course of 8 or 9 hours.

The pic you posted, even though it doesn't give a lot of info, looks like underproofing. What are your dough and room temps looking like? They can affect the fermentation times by hours.

>>14098409
>What are your dough and room temps looking like?
The room is 74 degrees according to both the thermostat and another mercury thermometer.
Apparently that's not warm enough for yeast.
I tried several sourdough starters before this and could never get it to foam up at 75 degrees.
So now I do all my rising/proofing inside the oven with the light on.
If I leave the light on for at least 4 hours before i start anything , it get to be 85-90 degrees in there, so that's where I let my dough proof.
Here;s the crumb by the way, and you're not the first Anon to diagnose it as under-proofed.

>>14098482
>I tried several sourdough starters before this
p.s. Just to be clear, I could never get sourdough to work, and am using dry active yeast currently.

>>14098394
thanks friend, that was exactly the type of answer I was looking for,
I'll let you know how it turned out tomorrow
>15 hours at room temperature as the overnight recipes in FWSY call for.
the recipes in where?
also interested in how make it without using yeast, but going to bed now

Anyone have a good bread recipe for meatball subs?

>>14098482

Yeah, definitely looks like underfermentation.

>>14098501

Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast....a very good book as an intro to bread baking.

>>14098489
what flour are you using for your starter?
what water are you using? tap?
how many days are you feeding before you give up?
75 degrees should be perfectly fine. I just made one and my house was like 73 degrees.

>>14093948
lookin good anon

Has anyone ever tried to feed sourdough starter a liquid other than water? Like could you give it apple juice or milk or something and it would impact the taste or smell?

>>14098654
there are a few techniques out there that recommend using pineapple juice or adding grapes i think. Maybe try looking into those?

Recommend me a starter jar

I hate mine she leaks every morning

>>14093067
Looks a bit flat but the crumb is airy enough. Also crust not dark enough for my preference, but i guess the seeds would get burnt so w/e.

I'd recommend reversing the fermentation times, 3-5 hours bulk fermentation before shaping and 2 hours for proofing (including the time needed to preheat oven/pot). Could help with oven spring since overproofing can degrade the structure.

>>14097217
>>14097896
Did you use fresh or cooked beets? I've found that raw beets tend to lose their color for some reason, be sure to post results

>>14098208
It's not bad per se, just not accurate. Keep in mind it's better to have a dought thats too wet than a dough thats too dry, to an extent atleast

>>14098391
I'd recommend kneading for more than just a couple minutes, even with autolyse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzx7dxuvaCo
Vid related is a great way to knead, easy and doesn't require muscle. My dough usually comes together at the 10 minute mark.

Also there might be something off with the way you shape the loaf, maybe it's not tight enough etc. Your dough is nearly 77% hydration which is on the higher end, dropping it down to 70-73% could help since firmer dough is easier to handle meaning less mistakes.

>>14098654
I'd keep my main starter as simple as possible to avoid anything going off, if you want flavour just add the liquid into the dough.

>>14098129
The crumb is alright. Not sure where the spring is coming from. May possible be from the sourdough fermenting the flour and tightening it up? Not sure about the scoring. Is this a copy paste? I just make sure the dough is not dry and chuck in the starter etc.

>>14098580
>what flour are you using for your starter?
The only flour I have is King Aruthur's All Purpose Artisan flour.
>starter?
I'm using dry active yeast, since I was never able to get sourdough to rise.
And I _have _ had two loaves work just fine, with the technique above

>what water are you using? tap?
Charcoal filtered tap water

>75 degrees should be perfectly fine.
That's what I hear, but when I was trying sourdough, my starters would bubble, but never rise in the jar until I put them in the oven with the light on. Then they worked fine.
Also, the loaf before last, I forgot to turn the oven light on far enough in advance, and had to add a drop light to warm it up enough for my dough to rise. So while I can't explain it, nothing seems to rise in my house at less than 85 degrees. This was true before I turned the AC on for the season as well as after (more humid air vs dryer air).

>>14099322
>I'd recommend kneading for more than just a couple minutes, even with autolyse.
Thanks, I'll try that.

>Vid related
After the first rise I've been doing stretch and fold, and it's been windowpaning well.

> something off with the way you shape the loaf, maybe it's not tight enough etc.
Most of my loaves were over-proofed, so it was difficult to shape.
The last over-proofed loaf I couldn't shape at all, and just plopped it into the dutch oven.
With this one, at one point I over-shaped it, tore the top and had to knead and start shaping from scratch.

>Your dough is nearly 77% hydration
I think your math is off. Using baker's percentages 280g water to 400g flour should be 70% hydration.
Following similar advice, I changed this last loaf to 260g water 400g flour, or 65% hydration.
Both these percentages weren't that hard to handle, as long as the dough didn't go all sticky (presumably from over-proofing).
To keep the desired hydration, after I proof my yeast in water, I add enough flour to make it the same hydration as my dough before mixing it in.

Me again, p.s.
>>14099432
>nothing seems to rise in my house at less than 85 degrees
I just remembered this isn't quite true.
I tried making a small batch of mead using sourdough starter instead of yeast, and that fermented just fine in a jug on top my fridge.
recipe:
1 quart (3 lbs) honey
3 quarts water (charcoal filtered tap water)
small handful raisins
tea leaves from 1 bag Lipton tea
dollop of sourdough starter.

even with the airlock in, it started fermenting/bubbling within a few hours.

>>14099432
>After the first rise I've been doing stretch and fold, and it's been windowpaning well.
I don't think theres any point in kneading the dough once you start fermenting, try to get it to a good consistency right from the start. Singular folds spread out for the first hour or so may help with the structure tho.

>Most of my loaves were over-proofed, so it was difficult to shape. The last over-proofed loaf I couldn't shape at all, and just plopped it into the dutch oven.
Now that i re-read your recipe you should definitely cut the yeast in half. A teaspoon should be sufficient for a quick commercial-style loaf. Also in what way are they overproofed? Do they lose all structure and become batter-like or do they deflate during proofing?

>I think your math is off.
Well in your notes you first mix 280g water with the flour and later add 28g more with the yeast. Typo?

>>14099498
>Also in what way are they overproofed?
>Do they lose all structure and become batter-like
Yes
> or do they deflate during proofing?
No

> and later add 28g more with the yeast. Typo?
I left out the part where I add flour to my yeast water to make what I'm mixing in also 70% (65% the last time), before mixing into the main dough.

Can someone recommend me a good sourdough bread recipe, preferably no knead.

>>14099284

Raw this go around. I forgot about the hour it would take to roast them and the starter was ready to go. I definitely prefer them roasted like I did last time - they almost completely disappeared into the water when blended instead of being small chunks in suspension.

>>14098482
>>14098391
I think I figured out why your loaf is so pale. You steam the oven with a water filled pyrex dish but you bake the loaf in a lidded dutch oven at the same time. After 20 mins, you remove the lid but still leave the pyrex dish in?

ok boys, cooking done in a minute
>tfw messed up so bad the final stage

Second try. Eating one of these along with olive oil and jamón serrano is probably healthier than any take out, and is currently more interesting to me than ordering anything for some reason. I think I'm just tired of junk food

>>14099824
fuuuuuu
the bottom was very saggy and stuck to the paper, wtf?
it otherwise developed a nice crust even though it didn't grew as much I'd like
tasted a bit on the sour side, but good regardless
its a bit on the crumbly side too

>>14099936
Did you proof them directly on the pan you used to bake them with? That usually creates sticky bottoms. Try proofing separately and preheating the baking sheet. There's a trick where you fold towels to make proofing and moving easier, don't have any links rn tho.

>>14099666
>After 20 mins, you remove the lid but still leave the pyrex dish in?
Yes, I leave it in.
I get where the lid seems to be working against the bowl, but I'm using two techniques that different people promote because it keeps the loaf moister.

Usually I spay the top of the loaf with water, but didn't have a spray bottle available this time, and that's probably why it's so pale.

Someone else suggested throwing a shot of water in the dutch oven along with the loaf, I guess I could try that.

>>14099840
just say serrano ham you fucking ponce

>used sourdough starter to make cinnamon rolls
>no leavening
>dough unsweetended
>pretty minimal sugar
>no frosting
Enjoyed it more than the traditional Cinnamon roll.
It was like an angry protestant version.

>>14099582
This book is really good, has detailed recipes for both sourdough and commercial-yeast breads. Has a lot of theory in it too which makes recipes redundant in the end. Mouth-watering pictures too

Instead of skipping kneading entirely, try some of the easier methods like "slap and fold"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzx7dxuvaCo
Most sourdough recipes incorporate long fermenting times anyway so they already get the benefits of "no-knead"

>>14098652
Thanks.

Forgot to take a picture of the whole thing but this is phenomally good.

>>14099958
The reason bakers incorporate steam into the baking process has to do with the crust and ovenspring, not so much with moistness. The steam keeps the surface of the crust wet and pliable for a set time, allowing the loaf to rise without splitting. As the crust sets and the water dries, it helps create a nice amber colour and crackling crispiness. If you steam the loaf for the entire baking process you hinder the maillard reaction and hardening of the crust. Use either the bowl (until the crust has set) or the dutch oven, preferably the latter.

If you want a moister loaf, use higher hydration and let the loaf cool completely before slicing

>>14099956
I tried doing that >>14099824
it didn't proof well enough though, and it stuck to the cloth as well, left for about an hour final proofing, still didn't feel like it grew enough

I'm the anon that left it overnight on the fridge, this one >>14097229

This loaf had me nuttin

>>14100037
u trying to kill yourself why not just eat the bread plain instead of drenched in artery clogging butter, fatass?

>>14100010
Thanks, I'll go with the dutch oven instead of the bowl!

>>14100038

Any tips on shaping? I tried to make a loaf shape by hand (instead of boule), and ended up with chewy streaks toward the bottom. 68% hydration, and somewhat underproofed.

>>14100117
yeah shaping is a pain in the ass, I'm >>14099936
and feels like going for baguettes first is a very risky move
I also have one of those rolling sticks, I think makes spreading out the dough better, but I just can't use it without it sticking and messing out the connection

>>14099936
>>14100144
Definitely needs better oven-baking paper, the old parchment paper I had did the same thing. And a rolling pin probably won't help you, but using wet hands was something I found out helps a lot.

>>14093948
good job bro

>>14100159
I feel like there is a lot of mixed signal advices around
like at first I only using wet hand, it sure helps a lot with stickness, but makes the dough very soggy and without that strong connection a smooth dough should have
another mixed signal is how to knead, at first I barely put any strength into it, then I saw an advice to really put your weight around it, it sort of worked creating a strong connection but only for a short while, and make the dough hella sticky
next I saw advice that you actually should have a very light hand to avoid stickness, soem bits will still stick to stuff but after the surface is formed it gets easier to handle, but this with a complete dry hand, otherwise it gets soggy
next its the slap and fold technique, that honestly sometimes makes me wonder if you're even doing anything

>>14096445
What kind of flour are you using? I would recommend self-rising.

>>14100144
What method are you using to fold it?

>>14100196
You've crossed advice for different kinds of bread. Use wet hands for no-knead bread. The strong connection you're talking about is a result of the gluten bonding.

>>14100052
One balding lunatic doesn't undo the real negative effects of eating bread everyday. It's as bad as eating cake or donuts everyday; you're effectively injecting sugar into your bloodstream every day.

It's not so bad once in a while, but this idea of bread being a staple diet food is fucking insane.

Anyone got any tips for baking a cake

>>14100238
>What kind of flour are you using? I would recommend self-rising.

The only flour I have is King Arthur's Artisan All purpose flour.

>self-rising.
That's flour mixed with baking soda (and salt).
I could just mix in baking soda, but I'm not trying to make soda bread. I want a decent sandwich bread with a nice open crumb.
And again, I've made two loaves of good bread with the recipe I'm using, I just need to find out what's going wrong with my oven spring.

>>14100255
>One balding lunatic doesn't undo the real negative effects of eating bread everyday. It's as bad as eating cake or donuts everyday; you're effectively injecting sugar into your bloodstream every day.
hate to derail the thread so this is a sage post but brother, your body loves glucose and plain bread is all starch so it is all glucose and very healthy. you can eat as much bread as you want, but do not eat fat with bread! It is the fat that is unhealthy, bread is life, bread is good
All hail bread!

>>14100301
That's usually what all purpose flour does in my experience. When I switched from all purpose to self-rising, my bread went from flat to doubling in size during cooking. It's not just "flour mixed with baking soda". It has equal parts acid and base (aka baking powder) mixed in and when these two are combined it creates a foaming action. I still recommend either going with a self-rising or adding baking powder to your mix.

>>14100313
Same guy or instead of mixing the flour with water you could add buttermilk and eggs and a little baking soda and get the same effect. The acid from the buttermilk would react the same way with the baking soda as using baking powder, and eggs are a natural way of further leavening the dough when it cooks.

>>14100313
>It's not just "flour mixed with baking soda"
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=self+rising+flour
>Self-rising flour is a combination of all-purpose flour, baking powder, and salt.
>Chances are high that you already have those staples in your pantry already too.
>The blend is typically comprised of 1 cup of all-purpose flour plus 1 1/2 teaspoons baking powder and 1/4 teaspoon fine salt.

Yeah, I have a hard time believing I need to use a cake recipe to make sandwich-worthy bread.

Anybody else here using buttermilk, eggs, and baking soda for a loaf of bread?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm pretty sure I'm just trying to accomplish decent results using the same ingredients and techniques that work for almost everyone.
There's just GOT to be something I'm missing here, and I'm hoping someone can tell me what it is.

>>14099987
Ty I will read the book.

>>14100360
There's a difference between baking soda and baking powder. Baking powder includes baking soda and other ingredients to create an acid-base reaction. It's not just "baking soda and salt".

>>14100239
>You've crossed advice for different kinds of bread
yeah its not like there a plain direction chart for what is what, the wet hands advice I took from this video which just plain baguette
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m08i8oXpFB0

>What method are you using to fold it?
I don't even know anymore,

>>14100310
True, I love bread but was worried but was worried gluten inflammatory symptoms, the one time I cut wheat products I was able to lose quite a bit of body fat
though I think the effect a lot more pronounced with the more fatty bakes, that's why I'm trying to stick with whole flour, it seems be a lot harder to get it just right
whats the whole flour bread method redpill /bbg/?

>>14100405
My bad. But it is just flour, baking _power_ and salt.
I could just add baking poweder to my recipe, but then I'd still need an acid like buttermilk or vinegar to activate it.
I'm not trying to pee in your cornflakes, but I want to make bread like most everybody else here, except with commercial yeast, and someday perhaps even work my way up to sourdough.

It's incredibly frustrating to fail over and over at something everyone else is succeeding at, and all you're telling me is "give up, you'll never make it". You might as well tell me to just go to the grocery store and buy a loaf.

>>14097896

Okay, still have a while before these are going in, but the pumpernickel is out and I'm feeling really hopeful that I have it dialed in. I made the dough a lot wetter this time, and had the baking times to....

1 hr @ 375
4 hr @ 275
7 hr @ 175

Excited to slice it tomorrow.

>>14100405
My bad. But it is just flour, baking _powder_ and salt.
I could just add baking powder to my recipe, but then I'd still need an acid like buttermilk or vinegar to activate it.
I'm not trying to pee in your cornflakes, but I want to make bread like most everybody else here, except with commercial yeast, and someday perhaps even work my way up to sourdough.

It's incredibly frustrating to fail over and over at something everyone else is succeeding at, and all you're telling me is "give up, you'll never make it". You might as well tell me to just go to the grocery store and buy a loaf.

>>14099987
can anyone share the book if they have it?
I forgot what was that site repository that had basically everything

>>14100449
I'm not saying to give up but just try doing it an easier way. Why do you think mass produced bread has so many stabilizers? Why do you think baking powder was invented? I'm just giving you a list of things that I have tried as a learning break cooker myself what things have worked for me.

Here's a few possible things you could try (but you don't have to take my advice if you don't want to)

Make sure the dough has enough water in it - water turns to steam at baking temperatures and will cause the heated dough to expand when cooking. Not enough water = no steam.

Add a bit of some kind of chemical leavening like baking powder (you don't mix this with acid, it already contains acid and base in the correct ratio) OR baking soda and buttermilk.

Add another natural leavening agent such as egg whites.

Use bread flour instead of all purpose flour. For maximum rise and minimum hassle, self-rising does what it says - it rises by itself when cooking, which directly addresses your problem lol.

>>14100484
Another thing to add - most commercial bakeries add wheat gluten. Bread flour has more gluten than all purpose flour. This causes a stronger structure when you knead the dough, holding in the air bubbles. You could try adding extra gluten or switching to bread flour instead of all purpose flour.

So lets say I made a starter and want to keep it in the fridge to only feed it once a week, do I feed it a certain amount and then shove it into the fridge and repeat weekly or is there something else I have to do?

>>14096625
hardly working but bringing in results so I wont complain

>>14100470
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=Flour+Water+Salt+Yeast%3A+The+Fundamentals+of+Artisan+Bread+and+Pizza&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def

this is a sourdough spelt loaf i made.
It came out nice and hard out of the oven but an hour later and the crust is soft.

Is spelt just the type of flour that makes soft crusts? I havent been able to get a hard crusty loaf with it.

>>14100895
What temp did you use? How long did you bake it? The color looks a bit light to me

>>14100974
~20 min covered in a dutch oven, 20 min uncovered. Temp was 500F, but probably closer to 470F cause my oven runs hella low.

>>14100720
Most people recommend leaving it on the counter after feeding it, feeding it again when it's active (next day for example) and then putting it into the fridge. That being said i don't think it's as strict as it's made out to be. I usually feed only once per month when i get the itch to bake. Feeding it in the fridge might work out too, who knows. Just keep an eye on the activity if you decide to try it

>>14100997
Huh, i usually get a lot darker crust with those settings.

>>14100895
>>14100997

After you uncover it drop the initial temp by 20 degrees and let it go until it's really nice and dark.

>>14100895
>>14101026
>>14101018
flour in the crumb was cause i was a retard while shaping. tastes alright.

>>14101015
You only feed your starter once a month? Do you just leave it on the counter for that month or in the fridge? I always thought that if you don't feed it very often it would die out?

>>14101124
In the fridge, on the counter it would propably die due to higher yeast activity. Sometimes it goes as long as 2 months, never had any problems. That being said it's a pretty strong and active starter anyway, a 50/50 mix of all-purpose and wholewheat, about 5 years old.

>>14101173
do you feed it before putting it in, after taking some out for use, etc?

just made my first starter and chucked it in the fridge after pouring out enough for my bread.

>>14091761
The discard works, I've used it to make pancakes. Just keep in mind the timeline because I sure didn't

>>14101173
redpill me on yeast keeping, can you just keep it going forever?
how do you get started?
what do you feed?
how to use?

>>14101345
plenty of sourdough starter videos online.
basically 50g of flour, any kind will do really. 50g of water, generally any kind will do, but your area might have water filled with chlorine, in that case use distilled.

Mix it together in a jar, put it on your counter, put a lid three quarters of the way on so air can come in and out as it pleases. Mark off the level of the mixture with a marker or rubber band.

next day, pour out a bunch. leave a bit on the bottom. The more you leave, the faster the new food will be absorbed, but if the process is too fast, you'll have to feed multiple times a day.

add in another 50g each of flour and water after discarding. mix. mark the level. repeat every day until you see the mixture rise about twice the height of your marker.

to test if its ready for use:
take a little spoonful, drop in water. if it floats, it works.

>>14100484
>I'm not saying to give up but just try doing it an easier way.
I get that, but I've already dropped back and punted on the sourdough. Apparently that's just beyond my abilities. But I HAVE made great yeast bread, but now I'm doing something wrong, and it seems like if I could just figure out what that is, I'd be back on track.

>>14100484
>Make sure the dough has enough water in it
Thanks, but the advice I got in the last thread was 70% hydration was too high, I should try 60% instead. I split the difference and tried 65%. Next I'll go back to 70%.

>>14100484
>Add a bit of some kind of chemical leavening
I've got both soda and powder, I guess I could try some, but it _does_ feel like working in crayon when I should be able to use a pencil.

>egg whites.
Again, it feels like I shouldn't have to do this. I should be able to ride a real bike, without training wheels, just like the big kids.
And desu, a month ago, I was reluctant to use eggs because of the lockdown, since fresh groceries were scarce (my roommate has copd, is on oxygen 24/7, and is particularly at risk).

>Use bread flour instead of all purpose flour.
This one's very tempting, I committed to a 50 lb bag of GP flour, and I'm less than halfway through it. I'd hate to waste it, but this does seem likely to be something doing differently without realizing it.

>>14100493
>You could try adding extra gluten
This is very promising. I'm ordering a bag from Amazon today.

My starter is bubbling and smells, but it hasn't been rising/only rises maybe 15% after around 10 days. I've started adding a bit less water (9:10 water:flour) and feeding less (~1:3:3 instead of 1:4:4). Am I just being impatient?

>>14101424
>And desu, a month ago
test:
desu I don't like word filters
ᵗᵇh
ṪḂḢ

>>14088730
I don't have a Dutch oven, can I just bake my bread in a stainless steel pot with the lid on for the same result? Is there really any difference apart from it not being cast iron

>>14101449
To clarify, the pot doesn't have any plastic parts on it, the lid is glass but I think it's heatproof?

>>14101345
Use the Cum Technique™, it's a secret technique used by master bakers.
Mix 25g of water and 25g of flour and then only feed it fresh cum (at least 5-10g) every single day.
Not only will this give your sourdough bread a distinct but delicious taste, you will also save a lot of flour by not having to throw any of it away.
After a week of feeding your starter cum it will start to bubble and have a nice and fruity smell, it should weigh at least 85-120g by now.
By this point you can even eat and taste a tiny bit of your new, fresh and delicious sourdough starter.

>>14101449
>>14101456
You can also use aliminium foil instead of a lid.

>>14101495
Yeah that was my plan B, will try

>>14101449
I used a pan of water in the oven, it creates a nice steam environment

>>14101394
does it have to be specifically from sourdough/ to sourdough?
and you didn't mention but I'm guessing using a bit of those organic yeast tablets, mix in with the initial water
how to you get some for use too? just a spoonful of the mix?

>>14101458
oh nice, now I have good reason to coom everyday

>>14101600

Don't use commercial yeast in a starter or it's not a starter. The whole point is defeated. The microbes in a levain come from the flour and your skin.

>>14099960
No. Anglos never modify their speech so why should I

>>14101623
so just leave pure flour, whole flour, interesting
I haven't read much into sourdough yet, but I think I might have accidentally stumbled into something similar >>14099936 >>14098373
its quite interesting using whole flour on my own, is by far very different than any "whole" flour products you ever see around

>>14099987
This is a good book. I read it and haven't used his recipes yet, but it was incredibly informative. I went from knowing literally nothing about making bread to comfortably and successfully making a straight dough white bread, tangzhong/hokkaido, and sourdough discard pizza crust on my first try. I haven't graduated onto anything more complex yet, but I'll be trying one of his recipes soon.

>>14101635
>Anglos never modify their speech so why should I
I have ancestors from France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Spain, Hungary, Russia and Poland.
THEY all had to learn English, not English, Spanish, German, Greek, Italian, Polish, Japanese, Chinese, 80 different African languages, Dutch, French, Norwegian, Portuguese, Swedish, and 80 other languages.
Suck it up, brown snowflake.

>>14097896

First borscht loaf goin in.

I like Chef John from food wished .com.
He's got a super wet (100% hydration) "no knead" country bread.
https://youtu.be/7rWeCYdtkwI
Any thoughts?
It doesn't seem to rise for shit, but the crumb looks great.

Tried whole wheat, bread came out flat and like a pound cake. What did I do wrong?

>>14101926

Did you do 100% whole wheat? That's a stiff order under any circumstances, let alone if you're not working with high extraction whole wheat, which has some of the larger bits of bran (which shred gluten chains as they develop) sifted out.

>>14101767

>>14102026

Second loaf going in.

what ratio to feed starter? i've seen everything from 1:1:1 to 1:5:5 starter:flour:water. is all that matter is that you feed after the rise finishes?

>>14101948
Oh. Next time I'll do some mix. What % should I do?

>>14102160

If you want to start conservatively do maybe 25% whole wheat and work your way up towards 50.

>>14100470
there is a PDF out there somewhere, I might have it saved. If i can find it I'll post in the next thread. I think a physical copy is worth if you can afford, although not as important as baking tools of course.

>>14102060
>>14102026
>>14101767
bro this shit is hot AF, what's the recipe you use?

>>14102180

I'm still playing around with the recipe so nothign is finalized yet, but this is what I used this time.

>Total

KA Patent Flour - 819 g - 90%
Dark Rye Flour - 91 g - 10%
H2O - 655 g - 72%
Beets - 228 g - 25%
Dill Weed - ? g - ?%
Salt - 18 g - 2%

>Levain - 20%

KA Patent Flour - 162 g - 100%
H2O - 89 g - 60%
Starter - 33 g - 20%

>Final

KA Patent Flour - 657 g
Dark Rye Flour - 91 g
H2O - 557 g
Beets - 228 g
Dill - ? g
Salt - 18 g

This time I didn't have time to roast the beets so I just peeled them and put them in the food processor with the final water. Autolysed for 1 hour, then combined in the starter and salt with folds and pincer method, then worked strength into the dough with Rubaud. Second round of Rubaud about 40 minutes later, then laminated the dough and sprinkled the entire surface with Dill Weed as it was spread out. Total bulk fermentation time was 4 hours.

Then divide into 2 equal sized loaves, round, put into bannetons, proof for 1 more hour at room temp, then cover and upt into the fridge for 18 hours. Baked covered in a dutch oven for 30 minutes at 475, then uncover and go for another 30 minutes.

This should be titled "I have no idea what I'm doing"

I followed some rednecks' recipe.
>add dry active yeast, salt
>"add hot water! almost too hot to the touch!"
>then add flour 2:1
I thought hot water killed yeast???
Does this make sense?

(Anyway, I added lukewarm water and the dough is shit. I'll bake half of it anyway)

>>14102305
>and the dough is shit
To clarify: it's sticky, not something you can really shape. It looks like it needs more flour after 2 hours of rising.

>>14102305
If the water is too hot to touch (or anywhere close), it will harm the yeast. You want lukewarm, not hot.

But without more information, can't tell you where else you may have gone wrong. Though a 50% hydration dough (2 parts flour to 1 part water) is pretty dry.

>>14102311
>2 parts flour to 1 part water) is pretty dry.
I meant by volume, as in "number of cups"
You mean the same?

>>14102311
Are you supposed to really kneed it at any point or shit like that?

>>14102325
Yes. Upon adding the water to your flour, you want to let it sit and autolyse for 15 minutes or so, and then knead it until it comes together. With 50% hydration you shouldn't have any issues with it being too wet to handle, so just do some basic kneading (push and roll, rotate 90 degrees, push and roll, repeat ad infinitum) until you have a smooth soft dough. You can do the windowpane test if you're unsure.

>>14102305
I have to say, it's rising like a motherfucker in the oven. That ridiculous blob already at least doubled in height if not tripled.
I was prematurely panicking.

So bros, I don't have a banneton, how can I either make one or do I even need to use one?

>>14102571

Just use a bowl and a flour dusted towel.

>>14102026

Crumb.

So did anyone ever try a yeast recipe with hot water?

Is it possible to let my sourdough rise for too long? and if so how long would that probably be?

Out of curiosity, but has anyone around meddle with fermented milk?
I just drinking a cup and remembered I saw somewhere you can make infinite fermented milk/yogurt, just by the same logic you keep feeding starter
and I also read somewhere that the sourdough starter has lactobacillus, so it got me wondering what can be interchangeable or not

>>14102970
>So did anyone ever try a yeast recipe with hot water?
95-105 should work fine

Made focaccia tonight for the first time. Really happy with the result.

Can anyone suggest a sort of layman's primer on baking science? I'm thinking something that would explain the effect of the various ingredients and how they result in shit like pic related. I have fuck all experience or practical knowledge of baking and want to know how I can change recipes I find to be more in line with my desires. I'm led down this path by a desire to make oatmeal breakfast bars that are crispy rather than soft or chewy.

>>14101495
>You can also use aliminium foil instead of a lid.
You think that would work if you've put the dough directly on a sheet? As in putting foil over the dough to act as a dutch oven to trap moisture inside?

My rye starter smelled cheesy this time but I used it anyway since it rose normally. The big whole wheat boule I made turned out extra springy and soft and open and low acid after a speedy bulk ferment :D

Anyone else do an overnight autolyse?

>>14103807
You want a crunchy granola bar? Only boomers think oiled oats glued together with sugar is healthy.

>>14100310
Flours can cause more weight gain than intact grains, but it's very difficult to get fat on bread alone. De novo lipogenesis is expensive. Only trashy americans dip bread in oil.

>>14101761
What is your point, retard? That we should all bow down to a single language just because everyone does it? Close yourself off to every foreign word you don't want to learn? Fuck off. If you know what the word means, good. If you don't, then ask and learn something for a fucking change

Fucking retards

>>14101761
I can't imagine how much of a worthless mouthbreathing drooling brainlet you'd have to be to type out this post. It's playing tricks with my mind right now. Congrats, you got me stumped. It's unreal

>>14104854
>That we should all bow down to a single language just because everyone does it?
No, I'm sure every single immigrant that come to America should have to learn TWO languages because you're so pissed at "muh Anglos".
也许您应该学中文?

>>14104860
Aww, that's sweet. Your first time on the 4chins?

>>14105008
English is packed fucking full of words stolen from other languages. If you want to be a damn pedant, you better insist that the full term be translated and that he call it "mountain ham." In either case, shut the fuck up.

Aren't you afraid of contamination when you rise yeast dough for half a day at room temp and shit?

>>14105341
Especially when whatever you cover it with gets fucking moist - great for molds and bacteria growth.

>>14105339
You're arguing with two different Anons.
Either way you're an الأحمق if you expect me to go google some random term to carry on a conversation.

>>14105406
If you chime in on a conversation without clearly differentiating yourself, that conversation is going to remain part of the response to your post. You have any interest in addressing the other half of that post that WAS specific to you and not just a throwaway comment, or are you not actually interested in participating in the argument you've started with your vitriol, you idiot?

>>14105341
>>14105346

The yeasts and bacteria in a culture outcompete those that are harmful.

>>14093970
My starter at day 5 now, it used to smell really bad in the first 2 days but now it has a fruity yeasty smell and the hooch smelled of alcohol

>>14092879
>fat
not even close, faggot. anyone who uses this site and tries to argue they aren’t retarded is retarded, but one thing I have never been is overweight. Not a single fucking day of my life. I hate fat people.

>>14105493
Note that my day count should be day 6 but I forgot to feed it yesterday so I'm not counting that

>>14105493
how big is your container?
from what I was told 50g water, 50g flour, about 50% in volume for growth
I was thinking a 200 ml glass jard would fit nicely

>>14105417
So it IS your first time on the 4chins, huh snowflake. That's precious.

What's the point of sourdough when you can just buy lactic acid powder and add that to your dough?

>>14105493
That means you cultivated yeast. Good job.

>>14105556
What do you buy?

>>14105008
So you automatically assume I want everyone to not modify their speech as they come into America where English is the official language as opposed to not assuming that everyone should type 100% of their posts in english in an underwater mongolian basket-weaving forum. You are actually THAT retarded. You keep finding ways to surprise me. How do you breathe?

>>14105589
Druid's Grove lactic acid powder

I'm going to make small and short baguettes out of my sourdough. Instead of putting loaves into bannetons for over night cold retarding in the fridge what would be a good substitute for these? I think I'll just shape them after the bulk and put them on plates with non-stick paper beneath and wrap them in large loose plastic for the cold. Then pull them out to warm up as the oven is turned out before just chucking them in on a sheet with steam.

>>14105556
I would guess sourdough can be made from things you always have at home and it's dirt cheap. Especially once you have a starter going. Do make two identical loaves, one with traditional sourdough and one with lactic acid powder and see if it's any different?

>>14105556
In Austria they are selling "sourdough powder" which is basically just lactic acid with some other bullshit and chemicals. You're supposed to add it 1:2 to fresh yeast for bread.

>>14105934
>>14105556
well for one I think it is assumed that sourdough is 100% whole flour, while the alternatives aren't

>>14105546
1890 ml, I used 1 cup of water and 1 cup of flour since I don't have a scale yet

>>14103807
Reduced the liquid content and bake at a lower temperature for a longer time

>>14105973
You can use whole flour with yeast

All the Fat fucking middle-aged women have emptied the stores of flour for nearly 2 months now

>>14106105
We have flour but no whole wheat flour or yeast. And all the shit they do have has weird languages on the packaging.

Supply chain disruptions are ridiculous.

What's the best way to prove something overnight (say 8 hours) if I know that I should only prove for around 5 hours? I don't want to overprove it but I'd really like to bake some sourdough that'll be fresh for lunch tomorrow.

>>14106101
I did, but as it was mentioned here in this very thread, full whole wheat dough in the conventional way is very hard to handle and grow properly,
I can't tell how exactly it differentiates but it definitely feels like that
I also just read an article that may indicate whole bread made with commercial yeast may actually worse for the tummy than regular white bread

>>14106230
>, full whole wheat dough in the conventional way is very hard to handle and grow properly,
Just add more water

>>14106188
Turn down the temps in the fridge and it will prove slower.

>commercial yeast

why do communists and schizos say shit like this?

Amy pls add me back

this is like my 5th pizza

I dont usually eat bread because the flavor is too boring for me. Is there a such thing as spicy bread?

>>14106356

>>14106383
would eat but dough looks underdone, what temp did you cook it at?

interior

>>14106391
it was before I discovered the pre-cooking, here is one i made today. Cooked at max settings at like 270c my oven lets me. Could write a whole write up to what I've learned

>>14106433
the first one looked better that this half raw half burnt crap

you only learned how to fuck up your pizza

>>14106469
This was actually delicious and well made, what do you mean half raw?

>>14106537
>what do you mean half raw?
so you're not disputing the burnt part?

the topping and the far side are kinda raw while half of it it burnt

don't get memed into ruining your pizza, first one was the best

>>14106552
hmm maybe its cuz I suck at taking pics with my shitty phone but I assure you the burnt texture is because I proof the dough for days so it gets like that in 2 minutes, the taste and texture within the dough is done just right imo. Its not dry, while also being crunchy

>>14101196
What i normally do is i take it out, discard all but a spoonful and feed it. I leave it on the counter overnight and the next morning i feed it again and put it in the fridge, using the discard to bake bread.

A less wasteful way is to only keep a small amount of starter in the tub, take it out of the fridge, feeding it AND the discard, putting the main starter back in the fridge and leaving the now fed discard on the table and baking with it the next day. Needless to say it's more of a hassle and i've yet to test the long term effects of not letting the main starter "feed properly" on the counter.

>>14101449
You can use a steel pot but i'd wager the result varies slightly from a cast iron. A steel pot absorbs less heat than a heavy dutch oven, meaning it'll cool down faster. You'll still get the advantage of self-steaming but it might fuck with the cooking process. That said, you'll never know until you try. Another way to incorporate steam is to add a pot of water to the oven (as stated above) or spraying the oven liberally with a spray-bottle

I'd recommend looking into buying a dutch oven/cast iron pot tho, since it's useful in many ways other than bread. Look for second-hand, i found mine at 35€ (mint condition) whereas new ones start from 100€.

>>14101667
>so just leave pure flour, whole flour, interesting
Exactly. The concept is that naturally occurring "wild" yeasts and lactic bacteria will form a symbiosis in a mixture of flour and water. The yeast will create co2 leavening your bread and creating flavour compounds as a by-product. The lactic bacteria will acidify the mixture, making the mixture more resilient to harmful bacteria and producing a pleasant sourness (think buttermilk). When you get a starter properly going, it'll never die or go off, provided you feed it. The yeast usually comes from the flour itself (wild yeast is present in grain) and the lactic bacteria from your skin (as you touch the utensils).

>I haven't read much into sourdough yet
Before you jump in, you definitely should. As with many things, sourdough is riddled with beliefs and half-truths. Read up on the subject, preferably on multiple sources before you try anything. As a beginner tip, don't use anything else but flour and water, everything you need is already present there. Adding things like grapes or whatever only raises the chances of something going awry. Also the most crucial step is the first couple of weeks/months, after that the starter should be a lot hardier than most sources claim.

>>14102026
>>14102778
Beautiful loaves but i hate it how the color dissipates when you cook it. Were the ones you used cooked beets for any better?

>>14103220
I've made sourcream and cultured cream cheese. I'ts pretty much like you said, you take some fresh milk or cream and add a bit of product that already has live bacteria. You leave it on the counter (or fridge if you're squeamish) until it's fermented. Back in the day, leaving fresh milk on the counter for it to ferment spontaneously into buttermilk was the main method of preserving milk. At least here in Fenno-Scandia.

Different strains of bacteria produce different products, so for sourcream you'd want cream+sourcream/buttermilk, for yoghurt milk+yoghurt (might need straining) and for buttermilk milk+buttermilk.

>>14103148
If you let sourdough rise for too long, the dough breaks down into something resembling a batter. How long it takes is dependant on the activity and amount of starter used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdYkdI_vgxQ&t=377s
See video at about 3:30

Im not sure why this happens (maybe it's explained in the video i forgot) but i'd reckon it's got something to do with the lactic acid breaking down the gluten.

>>14105341
This >>14105464

Also many products aren't as prone to going off as they're made out to be, dough being one of them. Furthermore even if you end up with a small colony of harmful bacteria, the heat of the oven will kill them. Of course assuming no toxins have been created yet

>>14106328
To differentiate industrially bred Saccharomyces cerevisiae from yeasts in general, or from wild strains of yeast found in sourdough.

>>14106362
You can spice up bread any way you like
Try adding
>Caraway seeds
>Fennel seeds
>Malt flour
>Pure cocoa
>Vegetables
Anything really

>>14106851

Cooked beet one.

making pizza

>>14106937
Yeast is yeast, schizo.

>>14102026
Jezus, anon. That is beautiful.

>>14106997

A starter will contain several different strains of yeast and bacteria. Commercial yeast is prolific enough that it will crowd out everything else and you'll end up with a monoculture.

>>14107008
God forbid the biodiversity of very complicated organisms of yeast suffers.

>>14100462
recipe?

>>14107015

Commercial yeast essentially just shits out carbon dioxide in the amount of time that it takes to leaven the bread, and won't produce any compounds that meaningfully affect the flavor or texture. You can get around this by prefermenting some of the flour with commercial yeast over a 12 hour period prior to mixing (these are called poolishes or bigas), which allows enough time for more interesting things to happen.

In a starter, you just get the added benefit of a lot more beneficial compounds being made because of the biodiversity of the microbes in it. If you're attempting to claim that there aren't differences between bread leavened with commercial yeast and with a starter....well....that's verifiably false, but I'm not really sure what point you're trying to get at.

>>14107030

I need to extend the baking times even more next time. Still gummy in the very center. Think I'll do 1 hr at 375, 4 at 275, 10 or so at 225.

>>14107056

I could also skip the hassle and do it in the bakery oven but getting the timing to work out on that would be its own thing.

>>14107056
>>14107059
damn, pumpernigger is pretty wild. how's it taste compared to the generic shit you get from restaurant bread baskets?

>>14107104

Pumpernickel you can get at the store is generally just regular bread with some light rye flour and food coloring thrown in, so this stuff is completely different.

>>14107059
>>14107056
>>>Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes
>>Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes
>Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes
Bread: A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes

>>14107250
source on that book?

>>14107043
>In a starter, you just get the added benefit of a lot more beneficial compounds being made
From what?
""'commercial yeast" actually has a ridiculous amount of beneficial compounds because in wasn't grown by you on white flour, it's actually a source of nutrients.

>>14107385
It's a book about bread.

Alright lads, going to try sourdough starter, here is my first batch, I went a little bit over with water

>>14106851
thanks mate I'm gonna try to get started, it really feels like this kind of bread is lots better the stomach than other stuff, I'm gonna keep eating my brown bricks for a week until this starter is ready for action
a question on the matter of lactic bacteria though, I intentionally gave a rub of alcohol on the container as a way to ensure that it wont be contaminated, was that a mistake?

>>14106874
I see, but you wouldn't use bacteria from a sourdough starter to get milk would it
and the straining part is also something that I was thinking off in type of production
funny enough I was looking into homebrew cider before I begun looking into baking

also left in the sun for the rest of afternoon to get it a bit warmer, what about this cloth for covering it up, is it enough ventilation?

>>14088730
Why is slap and fold so satisfying bros? I’m making donuts and it calls for a super hydrated dough.

>>14107571
I'm going to slap and fold you until you develop gluten, then I will put you in a pre-warmed oven (260 degrees Celsius) for 20 minutes.
After these 20 minutes have passed I will take the lid off the Dutch oven that I stuck you into and decrease the temperature of the oven to 230 degrees Celsius and let you bake for 30 more minutes. I will make sure to steam the oven well for you.
I will take you out of the oven and then eat you retard get fucked I'm going to fart and shit all over you yummy yummy shit and cummm and pooop, diarheia and coooom, coom poop coom poop, smelly diarhieaia shit!!!!

>>14107421

>From what

From the bacteria, mostly. Lactic and acetic acids are the big two that are produced, which are the byproducts of the bacteria breaking down various compounds in the dough, and the yeast strains then get the added benefit of being able to digest some of the things that the bacteria have broken down.

Again, I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at with all of this. If you take bread leavened with commercial yeast and bread leavened with a starter, you get two different products that have big differences in flavor, structure, and texture. If you want the results that a levain provides, you use a levain. If you want the results that commercial yeast provides, you use commercial yeast. It's all very simple.

>>14107250

I'm working out of the 2nd edition, fwiw.

>>14107747
how would brewing yeast work?

>t. brewery employee

>>14107803

I've never tried brewer's yeast in bread. From a quick Google it seems perfectly doable.

>>14107714
Noooo I don’t wanna be bread

>>14107503
Careful with it being in the sun, I accidentally left my first starter in the sun and it turned into Mount Vesuvius, the starter was still ok but it made quite a mess. The cloth is fine for ventilation, covered but breathable.

Does all yeast bread have pancake-y texture inside?

>>14107503
it really didn't get too hut, was about close to sunset
though there has already been some water separation at the top, I think I may have overdone a bit with water

Waffles are baking. At least a liege waffle requires what is practically a brioche dough.

What entry-level waffle iron do I go for, that is suitable for liege waffles? I'm in the UK, which seems to limit my options a bit.

I've been making whole wheat sourdough and it's been way easier than when I used to make white sourdough. Why is everyone making white?

>>14108250
racism.

might bake some bread

The worst thing about baking bread is that you eat about ten times more bread than you normally would.

>>14108466
And my bread is totally shit.

>>14108272
My boomer dad is so lowkey racist he involuntarily buys shitty white popcorn instead of cinema yellow.

>>14108472
How does your bread come out?

Oddly I hope this question can be answered in this thread: I made bread in my dutch oven (le creuset if relevant) at 460F and there are really stubborn brown burned (oil?) stains on the lid and sides of the pot. What's the best way to clean this off ? baking soda soak did nothing, the stains feel tacky/sticky. For brown stains on the inner enamel coating what do you guys use?

>>14106105
You snooze you lose faggot.

>>14108499
>cinema yellow
that's because those are known to give you sickness

>>14107484
>a question on the matter of lactic bacteria though, I intentionally gave a rub of alcohol on the container as a way to ensure that it wont be contaminated, was that a mistake?
Nah, the necessary bacteria will find their way in one way or another. Cleanliness is good but sterilization is unnecessary since a healthy starter will repel the harmful things.

>I see, but you wouldn't use bacteria from a sourdough starter to get milk would it
Well you can but you'll just "contaminate" the milk with flour (gluten) and the results may be unpredictable since the bacteria from sourdough aren't exactly designed to ferment milk the same way industrially produced strain are. That being said i encourage exploration so go ahead and try it. Some people also use sourdough to ferment drinks, yielding something akin to sour beer.

>>14108861
Perhaps some oven cleaning agent, like a grease cutter? Just make sure to rinse properly.

This is why i prefer cast iron to enamel, all the gunk that sticks is just called "seasoning" lol

>>14108861
Get cheap cast iron. Baking a bunch of bread in an enameled dutch oven is abuse, they aren't designed to be used dry at those temps.

>>14108861
Get a cast iron combo cooker

made this boule a few days ago. The crumb is pretty average but i still thought it looked nice enough to post

>>14109824
da crumb

>>14107571
How the heck do you slap and fold 75%+ hydration doughs on a counter? Adding flour continually defeats the purpose but the moment it touches the counter it sticks its entire length immediately, no matter how fast it's being handled. Just powering through means ripped gluten all over.

>>14109978
Just keep at it. There was a point when it goes from super wet and sticky to tacky and strong. I think it got to be strong at the 10 minute mark but I kept going for 15 minutes. Also a bench scraper is your best friend for wet doughs.

There are also other methods to knead such as stretch and fold and the rubaud method.

https://youtu.be/euPwDmgF5lQ
https://youtu.be/2XCbonAQkWU

>>14109978
Not the anon but use a scraper to periodically bring the dough together, if you keep at it long enough the dough will develop. Course it's gonna be sticky but that's the price you pay. Using wholegrain flour might help since it absorbs more water, making for a firmer dough at the same hydration level.

So my crust started cracking when it was cooling, is that bad? Smells good though.

>>14110006
https://www.thekitchn.com/food-science-why-bread-crusts-87395

>>14109997
>>14109999
Aren't I destroying the structure by continually ripping the gluten threads off at the start? It sticks to my fingers and the table so any motion rips pieces of it between me and the dough on the counter.

>>14110029
If it’s at the start, you’re fine. Just keep at it.
And maybe don’t stretch it so far that it breaks. Only stretch as far as you can without breaking

>>14109978
Is 75% high for white? I can't go much lower with whole wheat. Maybe you should try that.

why are zoomer wh*toids so obsessed with "breadmaking"?

>>14110029
Here’s the rubaud method
https://youtu.be/27y9XQ9JJmE

>>14110054
Thanks, I know and use these other methods but I've frequently seen the use of slap n fold so I was curious how to make that particular one work when it just seems impossible for myself.

>>14110052
It’s fun

>>14110052
They think that it makes them "homesteaders" because they made bread from a kit.

>>14110167
Where do you get a bread kit

>>14110187
wal*mart

>>14110167
What does a bread kit contain? Just enough flour, salt, (water?) and yeast for a single loaf?

>>14110224
yeah, it's like a beer or wine making kit, you basically get just one "unit" (4 cans, one bottle, one loaf)

>>14110052
Mans gotta have hobbies. It's this or wanking off to chinese cartoons

>>14110024
Exciting, so I've accidentally made what could be great bread.

>>14110029
As far as i know the goal of kneading is not to make long or structured chains of gluten, but to expedite it's creation in the first place. In other words, to help glutenin and gliadin to cross-link with disulfide bonds. You're increasing the amount of gluten in the dough, not forming it into structures. Folding during fermention and the forming of the loaf before proofing, on the other hand, is supposed to arrange the gluten into a network that traps gasses and holds it's shape. Make any sense?

Sure enough, if you start kneading a formed loaf you gotta form it all again, but dont be afraid of tearing the gluten strands when you first knead a dough.

>>14110270
Good shit anon, thanks. Guess I'll be battling the mess until either the dough or me collapses.

>>14110052
>whi*toids

>>14109633
Thanks for the tip. Certainly don't want to fuck up this since its a workhorse on the stove but its certainly a space hog

>>14110029
>>14110270
I had this very own question earlier in the thread, about mixed signal concerning how you should knead
so lets see if I got it straight: at first go heavy handed the push the thing the best you can without ripping it apart, but don't afraid if does rip/stick to everything
HOWEVER, after the initial knead, or pre-shaping fold, go with a lighter hand without being too aggressive, make it stretch but worry more about folding, until tight enough that you can shape it nicely
why is it so hard for a guide to mention this?

Also, can someone clarify to me the point of the intermittent folding between fermentation process, I saw it for plain baguette and its said to improve on the flavor, I did for whole flour baguette (that sorta worked) and indeed it tasted very nice, but just trying to understand the logic here

Why does my bread taste and look so bad.

>>14110861
I followed this recipe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znv99QbfWGs&t=

>>14110838
Imma walk you through a tried and true method.
1. Plan your ingredient amounts by bakers percentage, or look up a recipe
2. Mix the dough ingredients
3. Let autolyse (sit on the counter) 30mins, this allows the flour to fully hydrate and chemical processes to begin that make it easier to develop gluten.
4. Knead the dough. There are a lot of different methods, of which several are mentioned above. I'd recommend "slap and fold" since it's one of the easier methods and allows you to "get a feel" for the right consistency given a few repetitions. Simply put at this point you're just agitating the dough to facilitate the creation of gluten. Keep kneading until the dough is homogenous, stretchy, doesn't smear as much or in other words "comes together". For me it takes 10~ mins of slap and fold.
5. Bulk-ferment your dough. This allows the fermentation to really kick off, produces lots of flavour compounds and makes proofing faster after shaping the loaf. During bulk-fermentation it's recommended to fold the dough over itself (like a letter for example) a couple times. This helps arrange the gluten strands into a structure that traps gasses and holds it's shape, making it proof better. The fermentation-time depends on the type of bread and leavening agent used.
6. Form the loaf. If you didn't fold the dough during bulk-fermentation, this is the time to do it. Fold the loaf into the shape you want, tightening the surface to finish the shaping. Again lots of different techniques here.
7. Proof the formed loaf the way you see fit
8. Bake the way you see fit

Tl;dr first you knead it (don't fret about technique or the dough breaking), then you ferment it (giving it a couple gentle folds to develop structure), then you gently shape it, then you proof it and bake it

>>14110861
>>14110873
Nothing really wrong with the recipe so i'd wager something was off with the execution. Hard to say from pictures alone.

In what way does it taste bad? This might mean your starter is off.

Did you use the exact ingredient amounts? No errors, measured by weight etc?

Do you have any experience with baking? Maybe your skills are just a bit lacking, practise makes perfect.

>>14111112
alright thanks mate
I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmb0wWKITBQ
and its a pretty good explanation, he went over those very same steps
in his case went a 4 hour ferment step with gentle folds just like you mentioned, he also used sprinkles of water for stickiness, which was a new
then for the basket and a 15 hour proof on the fridge, like wtf isn't that way too much?
and then the baking it self, which holy hell that crust came out just nice

I'm wondering a couple of things, I don't have a shaping basket, nor a scraper or holding board for that reason, I gonna check if I can find anything appropriate in the market nearby, but I don't hold high hopes, what to do if I don't have that suitable shaping basket for final proof?

also, what to tweak in ferment and proofing times if I'm going for whole flour, or 50/50 whole/white flour bread? is it doable?
I just assumed generally sourdough usually done with whole flour since that's what your starter is being fed regularly

>>14111193
>sprinkles of water for stickiness
Yea dough doesn't stick to wet hands but dont go overboard since it always adds a little bit of moisture to the dough.

>15 hour proof on the fridge, like wtf isn't that way too much?
Fermentation and proofing times vary greatly depending on the type of bread. In this case he is making sourdough which ferments slower than a dough with commercial yeast (commercial yeast is bred to go fast). He then slows down the fermentation even more by chilling the dough in the fridge. The longer you ferment, the more flavour you're gonna get but you'll risk overproofing the dough (sourdough is notorious for breaking down gluten, ending in a batter-like dough). By putting it in the fridge you get the pros of long fermentation with reduced cons. For comparison i bulk-ferment my sourdough for about 4-5h and the proof the loaf on the counter for further 2h. Proofing in the fridge can be a bit finnicky but when you pull it off it's pretty gud.

>I don't have a shaping basket, nor a scraper or holding board
Unfortunately this is one of those things where the right equipment make a world of difference. That being said a scraper can be any scrap of plastic/metal that has a straight edge, and you can substitute a proofing basket for a bowl lined with a kitchen towel sprinkled generously with flour (it still kinda sucks tho). A "holding board" is not a thing per se, just having something to flip the loaf onto is a big help, i use a plastic cutting board. Place the board (or a big plate even) on top of the vessel your bread is proofing in and flip the whole thing over in your hands. This way the dough wont tumble and deflate as much compared to flopping it onto a table at a height. These things really cost like a buck or so, use the internet if you can't find them from stores nearby.

cont.

>>14111142
This is my second time making sourdough bread, my first sourdough bread was a lot stickier but when baked looked and tasted exactly the same as the second bread.
I don't know how to explain how it tasted but it just didn't taste very good, it was very chewy and almost kind of wet when I first took it out of the oven but then a few hours later it became very dry.
The only thing that I did different from the recipe is that I only used whole wheat flour throughout the whole recipe and that I baked the two loaves at the same time in a pyrex dish and a stainless steel pot, which should have be fine.
I think that it has something to do with either the starter or the flour that I used.

>>14111193
>ferment and proofing times if I'm going for whole flour, or 50/50 whole/white flour bread?
It's more about the activity of the starter than the flour used. For example my starter is relatively fast, takes me about 6-7h start to finnish to get a loaf (excluding baking). Some ppl might need a bit more than that, some ppl less. The thing is you need to be able to approximate by eye when the dough is done. Bulk-ferment long enough for the dough to at least double in volume, but don't let it deflate by itself. Proofing is complete when it's at least doubled again, some ppl stretch it to the limits but again you run the risk of deflation. There are some tricks to determining optimal proofing like the finger dent -test but i've found the least fussy and reliable method is to just make sure it's at least doubled and maybe let it go a bit further than that. Getting the timing down to a minute takes lots of practise, even speculation, so don't fret.

>I just assumed generally sourdough usually done with whole flour since that's what your starter is being fed regularly
Sourdough doesn't specifically call for wholemeal but it does bring a bit of flavour to the table. Generally the more white flour you use the better the texture of the dough and the more wholemeal you use the more complex the flavour. You can also integrate different types of grain for even broader flavour spectrum. I usually do about 60-80% white flour and 40-20% wholemeal/rye/barley. The reason many sources suggest feeding the starter with wholemeal is that it contains more nutrients than white flour, thus making it easier for the yeast and bacteria to flourish.

>>14111348
I also think that it proofed too long in the fridge, I left it for 16-18 hours.

>>14111348
>I don't know how to explain how it tasted but it just didn't taste very good
Again hard to say, but sourdough shouldn't produce any "harsh" flavours.

>chewy and almost kind of wet when I first took it out of the oven but then a few hours later it became very dry.
Well it's supposed to be chewy to an extent, dunno about that "wet" thing, propably not undercooked tho. If you cut the bread before it's cooled down significantly you end up with a dry loaf due to evaporation.

>The only thing that I did different from the recipe is that I only used whole wheat flour
100% wholemeal makes for a denser dough than white flour, this in addition to your lack of experience may contribute to the loaf looking kinda like a brick.

Keep an eye on your starter and try a different recipe. You can also try ditching the pyrex/stainless vessels and baking it on a sheet and adding a pot of boiling water into the oven for steam.

>>14111355
Yea that's kinda stretching it, even with cold fermentation.

>>14111352
>>14111289
thanks mate, this been a huge help
here is a picture of what I improvised last time I tried, using a pillow case for the cloth, and a too small plank covered in aluminum, it didn't quite work out
I'm gonna try for a more widen loaf instead of baguettes, and definitely much lessend quantity
still there will be a few days before my starter is ready to go either way, last question though, how much of the starter are you supposed to use in which ratio?

>>14111391
So it would be fine to just bake it on a sheet? I always see people using bannetons, Dutch ovens, Pyrex dishes etc. so is there any reason for that?
I also scored my bread but it didn't open up at all, I did steam my oven if that makes any difference but the cut might not have been deep enough.

>>14111418
>how much of the starter are you supposed to use in which ratio?
Hate to give the same answer over and over, but again it depends on the activity of your starter. The more starter you add, the faster it will ferment but too much will negatively affect the doughs consistency (the starter is basically overproofed dough). You can review a couple different recipes to get an average, or just experiment with your starter to find the right amount. I use 100g of 100% hydration starter for a dough weighing 850g in total. That means i first mix 450g of flour with 300g of water, autolyse, and add 100g of starter. This comes up to 500g flour (450+50) and 350g water (300+50) for a 70% hydration dough.
Good luck anon, keep in mind that baguettes are way more technical than loafs and leavening them with sourdough adds another layer of difficulty. Don't get discouraged.

>>14111516
>I always see people using bannetons, Dutch ovens, Pyrex dishes etc. so is there any reason for that?
It's all about steam. During the first half of baking, steam keeps the doughs surface moist leading to better oven spring and leads to a crispier crust once the surface has set. Professional bakeries have ovens that inject steam directly during baking, while home-bakers have to resort to gimmicks. One way is to put a pot of boiling water in the oven or use a spray bottle, another is to bake in a closed cast iron pot which steames the loaf using the doughs moisture (you need to open the lid after the crust has set). Of these the latter method is preferable since the cast iron also adds to the colour and shape of the loaf.

>I also scored my bread but it didn't open up at all
You need a good amount of oven spring to oven up a scored loaf and like you said, it needs to be deep enough. I don't score my bread because i like the unpredictable way it splits naturally more than an elaborate scoring pattern(also it's a hassle to score).

>>14111878
>Hate to give the same answer over and over
thanks again anon, it was just that particular point wasn't that clear to me
pic related is my starter second day only, leaving it the sun but not much activity going on,
grew just about 1 inch overall (the rubberband mark)
and it seems like sun is barely heating it too much at all, besides being low in the afternoon (see the shade angle), I think the cloth like that really helps with temperature too