/ck/ - Food & Cooking

i wanna fuck that bird

>>13781543
very BASED post

>>13781543
nah. spatchcoking assumes that the whole bird should be cooked the same, which is wrong.

the dark meat should always be cooked way more than the breast meat, and you can't do that with spatchcocked chicken.

>>13781604
>Spatchcock ensures everything is cooked juicy and faster
Vs.
>Cooking it normal and having nice dark meat which is the minority part of the chicken and risk making everything else dry and nasty.

>>13781543
bro i will fuck that bird

>>13781621
you don't know what you're talking about.

how does spatchcocking make it juicy? the "juiciness" of a chicken only has to do with the amount of moisture and fat in the meat. the more that the meat is cooked, the more moisture is lost, and thus the less juicy it is.

white meat and dark meat cooks very differently. white meat (the breast meat) has almost no fat in it, so it's critical that it isn't overcooked.
the dark meat on the other hand has lots of fat and is better when it is "overcooked" by cooking the shit out of it. spatchcocking makes the whole thing cook for the same amount of time so either the dark meat isn't cooked the best or the breast meat is overdone.

keeping the chicken whole allows you to cook the dark meat more than the breast meat for a perfectly cooked chicken.

>>13781700
longer cook times mean drier meat dummy.

>>13781711
that's how i know you don't know much about cooking poultry. it's not as simple as that. dark meat that's very fatty such as the legs and thighs on a chicken don't get dry when you cook them longer.

the entire chicken has to be cooked to an internal temperature of at least 165ºF for it to be safe enough to eat, so the white meat should not be cooked further than 165ºF, but the dark meat is still good and in fact more delicious if you cook it way beyond 165ºF.

>>13781700
The dark meat will be on the outside and the breasts in the center. The dark meat will be fully cooked before the breasts get over cooked.
Plus you get to keep the spine for future use.

>>13781721
So why not cook the chicken upside down, so the fat from the dark meat bastes the white meat while it renders?

>>13781727
assuming the bird would be baked on a flat surface, if you cook the bird upside down then the breasts would have direct contact with the hot metal pan or tray that you're cooking it in.

but even if you were to bake it in a rack so that the breasts aren't really touching the metal surface, i don't think the fat from the dark meat would be absorbed into the breast meat so easily and quickly. it takes several hours for white meat to adequately absorb an oily marinade, and chicken would be cooking for not much more than an hour. plus the white meat is surrounded by lots of bones, membranes, and weird solid connective tissue that keeps it separate from the dark meat but also prevents additional moisture to get inside, unless if the chicken was brined or marinaded for several hours beforehand like i said. plus if you cooked it in a raised rack upside down in a tray, the breasts would receive additional heat from the steam from the water and drippings falling into the tray as it hangs and cooks.

>>13781726
the whole point of the spatchcoking method is so that the entire bird cooks at the same rate and all the meat is equally exposed to the heat, right? that's literally the point of spatchcocking. the breasts are still very much exposed to the heat of the oven and the dark meat isn't really protecting it in any way. you can see it in the pic OP posted >>13781543
it's not like the breast meat is encased and surrounded by a layer of dark meat or something. spatchcocking ensures the whole chicken cooks the same.

Just fucking quarter the chicken and cook it wtf. Fucking hipster cooking is complicated as fuck

>>13781773
even easier to cook the chicken whole. if ya want it in pieces then just buy it pre-cut

>>13781773
>Spatchcocking is Hipster

Bro. You literally make 4 snips with scissors and your done.

>>13781543
dries the bird out in no time

better to do this
so good and juicy

>>13781700
>you don't know what you're talking about.
lmao anon YOU don't know what you're talking about. The goal of spatchcocking, for roasting, is to place the thighs/legs on the sides of the tray where the heat is more concentrated, and keep the breasts in the cooler middle so they cook slower. Ovens don't have even heat. If you place say a tray of breadcrumbs in your oven you can observe where the heat zones are.

>>13781721
>that's how i know you don't know much about cooking poultry.
>the entire chicken has to be cooked to an internal temperature of at least 165ºF for it to be safe enough to eat, so the white meat should not be cooked further than 165ºF
breasts are cooked though at 145... perfectly safe to eat. And dry boots at 165. Those are paranoid numbers. Dark meat breaks down properly at 175.

>>13782541
165ºF is the correct temperature for chicken breast. it's the necessary temp to kill all pathogens, but people tend to take their chicken out after it has reached that temperature instead of taking it out a little early at like 159 and the internal temperature will go up to 165 while the chicken rests out of the oven. if you think 165 is dry then you must have a broken thermometer or you didn't account for carryover heat.

>The goal of spatchcocking, for roasting, is to place the thighs/legs on the sides of the tray where the heat is more concentrated, and keep the breasts in the cooler middle so they cook slower.
that's perhaps your goal when you spatchcocking, but that's not the goal everyone else has in mind when they spatchcock. the purpose of it for everyone else is "even cooking," which is the wrong way to cook a whole chicken.
and the difference in heat between different parts of the pan/tray/sheet depends entirely on the type of pan/tray/cooking sheet that you're using, but there wouldn't be much difference in temperature between one part versus another part.

>ovens don't have even heat
they do if you're using the convection setting, which you should be doing anyway if you're roasting a whole chicken carcass.

>>13782840
>>ovens don't have even heat
>they do if you're using the convection setting

That's not true. Convection is irrelevant. The tray used is irrelevant. You ever roasted a tray of vegetables? The ones on the edges of the tray cook quicker. Every oven will look somewhat like this for heat zones.

Please read this article and have a re-think of what you know and don't know about chicken.
https://www.seriouseats.com/2010/05/how-to-roast-a-chicken-butterflied-tips.html

>>13781700
>juicy
There's that word again.

>>13782840
btw, here's what a breast pulled at 145 (which will rest and come up to 150) looks like.
If you research this, 150 with a 5 minute rest is perfectly safe. Basically as long as a chicken is not pink.
Your 165 number is the paranoid FDA number.
You'll notice they actually revise these numbers to bring them down. Pork went from being 165 to 145. Chicken breast is the same.

It's kind of sad how many people have never even eaten a not-overcooked chicken breast.

Roasting a whole bird you're unlikely to have the dark meat cooked enough at this point either way, and that's more important. But for discussions sake 165 for breasts alone, is ridiculous.

>>13782913
I cook my chicken and pork until its only a bit pink in the center. People call me crazy for it. They can enjoy their dry piece of meat

>>13782927
>lean pork
this is common practice now though.
>chicken
medium rare chicken isn't even more tender, it's just chewy. You're stupid.
150 isn't medium rare.

>>13782957
Its not really medium rare. Its more like medium where its just turning white

>>13782927
you're not supposed to undercook chicken like you can with pork and beef. chicken has to be thoroughly cooked or you have a risk of getting very ill.

>degenerate c*rnists debating how to heat detox a poisonous substance
just sittin here enjoying my raw vegan cold drip latte
siiiiip

>>13782913
the FDA's safe temperature for pork and beef went down from 165 to 145 because they realized that most pathogens aren't really in the meat. poultry is not the same, you are lying when you say that. poultry has pathogens in the meat that you must kill by cooking the meat thoroughly to 165

>>13783043
>you are lying when you say that
I didn't say that. Go research this. See if you can find a source which says that 145-150 with a rest time is unsafe.

Read the source that I gave.

You're just wrong anon.

>>13783080
>See if you can find a source which says that 145-150 with a rest time is unsafe.
You won't find that, it's too specific. What you'll find is a myriad of sources citing the 165 as the minimum because if they go lower and someone listens then gets sick it's a lawsuit they don't want to deal with.

>>13783086
>The FDA Food Code recommends cooking chicken to 165°F (74°C). But the pasteurization of chicken is actually a function of both temperature and time. If you can hold your chicken at 145°F (63°C) for 8.5 minutes, you can achieve the same bacterial reduction as at 165°F (74°C) (a 7-log10 reduction—meaning that 99.99999% of the bacteria present are destroyed).

https://blog.thermoworks.com/chicken/thermal-tips-simple-roasted-chicken/

A meat thermometer company is a reliable source right?
now you know.

>>13783010

>>13782913
How will it rest and increase in temperature? That violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics

>>13781543
>spatchcock
let me guess you're going to serve it with reddit potatoes and IPA?

>>13782893
>You ever roasted a tray of vegetables? The ones on the edges of the tray cook quicker.
That's more to do with vegetable density and exposed surface areas, than the oven

>>13782893
oh okay that's what you meant by tray. yes the edges will eat faster, so isn't that the reason why the chicken shouldn't be spatchcocked? if the thighs and legs are hanging out on the sides and bottom of the carcass while the breasts are raised up and out of the way, then that would accomplish faster cooking of the legs and thighs anyway.

even faster when you place the chicken in a hot pan/tray so the dark meat gets a head start before placing the whole thing into the oven

>>13783179
Well, I am now. Sounds delish.

>>13783174
Heat at the outside is still migrating inwards to the center, evening it out.

>>13781543
I get all the reasons to spatchcock, but I just love bringing the whole bird to the table and carving in front of everyone. Also I’ve never fucked up a chicken so bad it became that dry

>>13783286
Form over function drives me nuts. Spatchcocking is superior in every way. I'm late to this thread, but its self evident if you've cooked for any time at all with both techniques.

>>13783179

>Electric oven whole bird meat

let me guess, you're going to serve it with Schlitz and some drunken handsy 'good nights' to your daughter.

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/03/dinner-tonight-jacques-pepins-quick-roasted-chicken-recipe.html

Always use this technique. Added Recipe:

Piri piri Chicken

2 tbsp McCormicks piri piri blend
3 tbsp Olive oil
1 tsp Herbes de Provence (thyme or Italian blend may work)
2 tbsp White wine vinegar
1 tsp Salt
4 Garlic Cloves minced/finely chopped

optional:

Liquid Macarico piri piri hot sauce to taste (approx. 2tsp)

mix well

Use Jacques Pepin recipe for application instructions and cooking.

>>13783300
this, but she identifies as a boy (female)

>>13783286
It’s got that sense of occasion

>>13783293
>mfw no sense of occasion

>>13783330
>This difference between vanity cooks and people who cook everyday.

Am I the only one who just doesn't roast whole chicken? Have yall never tried Costco chicken before?

>>13783349
I don't go to flyover stores but I do buy pre-roasted chickens when I need to make a lot of stock, yeah

>>13783349
You never know what they're brining their shit with. I don't need any extra salt/nitrates/nitrites in my joints. I do it to taste for the same reason I bake my own bread. My bread goes moldy on the counter in a 5 days. The shit I buy from the store can last 3 weeks. I need arthritic attacks like I need a hole in my head.

>>13783351
How the fuck is costco a flyover store?

>>13782913
Chef John says 150 is okay so therefore it must be okay.

>>13783293
I like the ability to stuff my bird with aromatics. Can't do that with a soycocked bird

>>13783408
>soycocked bird

Stop talking like a child. You want 'aromatics, you peel the skin off and put them between the flesh and the skin AND you put them in the bottom of the pan like any stupid asshole would do if they had half a goddamn brain. Just making sense of shit on a day to day basis is a challenge to you, isn't it?

In case there are any actual cooks here and you make other food out of the roasted birds you make. Make a 'neutral bird' with butter salt and pepper. Peel the skin from the flesh, stuff it with butter(cutting out the spine and roasting it along side the bird), salt and pepper inside and outside of the skin/flesh separation. 450(ish) for 30 minutes or until the thickest part of the bird hits 165. Broil the skin at the end for chicken skin chips.

Then use that in chicken salsa, fast electric chicken fried rice(not everyone has 100k BTU gas), chicken sandwiches etc.

>>13783507

And obviously keep the drippings/bones etc for soup and whatnot.

>>13781543
All methods are inferior to galantine with stuffing. Only reason to argue regular Vs spatchcock is lack of skil required for galantine.

>>13783507
To me, 165 is overcooked. Juices can still be pink and the bird is perfectly edible.

>>13782424
Whats the purpose of the beer can?

>>13784075
It's full of beer with steams off into the chicken.

>>13781543
I want to fuck that bird then my 6 month old baby sister.

>>13783043
Pasteurization is not just a function of temperature, but of temperature and time.

Something like 5 minutes at 150 will be as safe as a turkey at 165.

you can't eat medium rare poultry meat you stupid motherfuckers. it's not the same as red meat such as beef and pork. pathogens are dispersed throughout the meat in poultry while in red meat the pathogens are only on the surface of the cuts which is why you only need to cook the surface of red meat but you have to completely cook poultry. stop giving yourselves salmonella dumbasses.

Cunt stuff a spatched bird my man.

>>13781543
I spatchcocked and ovenroasted a duck the other day. It was pretty good.

>>13783286
I don't think bringing something like what is shown in the OP looks worse, though.

>>13785967
Technically, if you pasteurize it, like with a sufficiently long Sous Vide cook for the temp, it is safe.

I wouldn't go below 140 on that with chicken breast, though, because the texture isn't right at that level.

Also, not all poultry is unsafe, duck is fine medium rare.

>>13781543
I object to making my food look demure.

>>13781727
You should actually. Cooking the bird on it's side is the best technique. Look up Jacques Pepin's technique for it. Simple and delicious.

>>13783286
this