/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>13647854
Using cream over milk seems like it might be too rich, and the liquid:cheese ratio seems too skewed in the liquid's favor. Nutmeg is a good call. Ever try the corn starch + evaporated milk method for a cheese sauce?
>I want to add another source of heat to go with the black pepper and cayenne.
Maybe a bit of powdered chipotle for some smoky notes. That or a dab of whatever hot sauce you like.
>Semi related, are there any reference texts out there that show the relative potency of potential spices/herbs? I'm kind of grasping in the dark when I guess how much to put in. Having a basis to work off of would be much more convenient.
Would be a good idea to just experiment with them, really. Add a bit to something you make, then adjust the amount based on what you think works.

>>13647854

I keep it simple. Melt butter 1 to 3 with milk. I grate cheddar and coat it liberally in cornstarch. When the milk/butter mix is near simmer, I add the cheddar and whisk, and then add and whisk, etc, until it's thick, then I add my precooked elbow mac. Oh and I add real grated parmesan reggiano to season and add some complexity. But this is basically robust kraft dinner. I appreciate mustard seed, cayenne and all that other shit, But this is where I start with first principles.

Once you make your base, you can add all you want. Also you need to add milk after the noodles if it's too thick. Cornstarch if it's too thin.

>>13647854
Add rings or dices of jalapenos or other spicy chiles. Cook them before hand a bit or leave them raw before baking but don't cook them in the sauce that way they stay distinct.

>>13648042
Good call on the chipotle.

Yea, a reference would be handy though. Easy for me to iterate a stir fry I can make twice a week, not so much for something like Mac and cheese I have once a month.

>>13648362
honestly, that's one of the few things I actually DESPISE being in my cheese sauce.

shitty jalapeno slices that have little flavor and just turn into a soggy disgusting mess of green.

>>13649158
That's why you add them to the mac and cheese and not the sauce, do it right before baking. It should hold up and give you that extra spice element you want.

Use a bay leaf

How do I make cheese sauce without flour? Do I absolutely have to use sodium citrate or some other emulsifying salt? I've always wanted that Velveeta-style smooth cheese sauce, but with the sharper flavor of real, aged cheese.

>>13649441
if you want the velveeta smooth, you need sodium citrate or similar emulsifier.

>>13649441
I want this sauce, but made with real, high quality cheese.

cheese sauce does not need a recipe.

you cook flour with enough butter to make a stirrable paste for about five minutes then pour in as much milk as you want sauce and whisk the fuck out of it as it comes to a boil then let t cook out on low for a long time before stirring in grated cheese off the heat

you can add whatever the fuck you want to it but having a 'recipe' laid out like that is small-brained shit

>>13649524
>cheese sauce does not need a recipe
>proceeds to write a recipe
Okay, retard

>>13649534
i wrote out a method

>>13647854
i make a lot of queso and alfredo sauce.
i always do a 3:3:1 mornay sauce. as in 3tbs fat 3tbs flour 1cup milk.
don't do equal mass ratios of fat/flour because the flour is so fuckin light, you'll get a heavy flour flavor even if you cook the roux brown.

with alfredo, since parmigiano reggiano is so expensive, i cut it 50/50 with parmesan, without sacrificing the rich flavor.

you're getting some acidity from the worcestershire, but adding vinegar can really improve the flavor. i like smoked paprika as well.
i'm mad into hot peppers. the brand "kiva smoked ghost pepper" is a very nice one. it's hot but the flavor is really exceptional. comes in a little shaker for like 10$ online. can't recommend enough.
if you have a trader joes near you, they make one of the best habanero sauces i've come across. i've tried so many and i can't find a brand like theirs. absolutely give it a shot if you've got one nearby.

about the spices and herbs thing, i don't know if this is common knowledge but i'll tell you the way i do it:
i sprinkle like a small pile of the spice on the surface, and taste that "high spice" region. then i sort of mentally imagine if i want it closer to that or not. it's hard to ruin food doing it this way, and you can experiment with flavors that you might not otherwise.

>>13649147
>a reference would be handy though
keep a sheet of paper in your cabinet and make a note of what you've done each time you make it. over time you'll zero in on a perfect recipe.
like, "2-12-20. added 6 oz aged cheddar. too strong. try milder cheese next time, or less"

>>13649524
You’re so smart bro.

>>13647854
ew

>>13649441
Corn starch and evaporated milk. Think you shred the cheese, toss to coat with the starch, and then melt it in evaporated milk. Seriouseats has a page for that method.

>>13649896
thanks

>>13649880
I like the idea of adding vinegar. What kind do you usually use? I'm thinking I just use white wine vinegar? Smoked paprika is also worth trying I think, since i have nothing in there that's going to add any smokiness right now.

>>13649890
I do keep a record of what I cook, but if there were a more general purpose reference text I could use to get a basis, it would be a lot quicker to get my recipes where I want them. As it is I end up finding a bunch of different recipes, look at all the different spices they use and the amounts they suggest, and make a first version derived from that. If there existed a text that simply explained the uses of each spice and the basic potency(even if it just had a suggestion of how much to put in a liter of veloute if I wanted to incorporate that flavour) the task would become easier.


I'm thinking next time I'll up the parmesan(the cheddar is already a five year cheddar and is very strong), add chipotle and paprika for, and then some sort of vinegar.

Not sure about swapping for milk, cream needs about half as much roux to get to the texture I want from my experience, and thus I can avoid a floury taste more easily.

>>13647854
I'm glad you use mustard powder, that's a good move. You could also use a little bit of Cheyenne pepper. Not much, but it can be nice to have a little bit lingering in the background.

Sounds dank

>>13647854
>1/2 tsp nutmeg

>>13649926

This is essentially what I do. I melt 1 part butter to 3 parts milk, simmer it, then coat my grated cheese in a ton of cornstarch. Whisk it in slowly. It becomes perfectly creamed. Then at your macaroni. Some parm reg if you have it. I made some 3 days ago, it's so cheesey it'll make you sick.

sodium hexametaphosphate will make your mornay sauce NEVER break again, and perfectly emulsify, just a small pinch will do!