/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>a large majority of ethics professors believe eating meat is unjustified
lmfao

>>10396448
t. a shitty human being deficient in empathy and abundant in selfishness

hi yes where is the evidence

>>10396461
according to who? you? you're nobody important.

>>10396476
According to the fact that you eat meat

>>10396427
>Veganism better for the environment, our water sources and land are already strained and it will only get worse.
If you do that, you have to find new terrains meant to grow protein-rich plants (because grazing fields aren't meant to be cultivated, ever) and do it en masse, with the result that you end up consuming MORE land and water.

>Veganism gets rid of the unnecessary cruelty and murder caused by livestock farming
LMAO, as if the current livestock has any other biological niche to fill.

>The only reason to be eating meat is if you're a shitty human being deficient in empathy and abundant in selfishness.
I guess I am. Not that it's too important.

>>10396494
I like you anon, you are invited to our table anytime you like.

>>10396494
Important to note that feedlot farming is the shitty one, natural grazing is fucking awesome. Good grazing practices and range management is one of the coolest methods of working hand-in-hand with our natural environment and putting evolution to use through raising ruminant animals.

I think the fact that we turn sunlight into delicious beef and all the processes involved with it are incredibly underappreciated.

>>10396427
Source for all claims?

>>10396461
>I’m a vegan so my opinions matter
They honestly don’t.

>>10396547
Pictographs from pro-vegan websites

>>10396546
Won't get muh marbling on grazed cattle though.

>>10396427
>deficient in empathy and abundant in selfishness.
that sums me up pretty well

> a large majority of ethics professors believe eating meat is unjustified

Do you ever wonder if ethics professors feel guilt about the role they play in a system that leaves their students deeply in debt and unemployable for anything except unskilled labor?

>>10396427
>Veganism better for the environment

Yes excluding easily renewable resources like leather, animal fat, wool, and bone from your lifestyle in favor of petrochemical based "equivalents" that will take millennia to biodegrade is great for the environment.

Please continue consuming plants that need to be shipped from the four corners of the earth year round and still must be supplemented with vitamins to maintain a balanced diet instead of raising a couple of chickens to supplement the nutrients from locally, seasonally available flora.

The insane, unsustainable amounts of fertilizer you must use to maintain your needed crop growth in environments dubiously suited for it year round has no ill effects on the planet.

I get that fatasses in the west eat like shit and their over consumption of animal products has negative externalities that are marginally worse than the fantasy you choose to pursue but get fucked if you actually think your diet is anything but a luxury built on the same destructive systems so you can avoid having to engage in a trivial moral dilemma.

>decide to be vegan
>due of vitamin malnourishment

>>10396427
Because meat tastes good, I can easily afford it, and I live in a developed country and won't really be affected significantly by climate change.

>>10396593
Marbling is affected by genetics, so it's possible. It'd just take time. I don't think grazing could ever meet beef demands anyway so I guess it's moot until we can create science meat.

>>10396637
All fertilizer use is unsustainable as long as we flush our sewage into the ocean. In a way the poos have it right, you need to shit on the land. It doesn't rain micronutrients.

>>10396651
It's affected by genetics ... but US prime and weeb beef is all finished on energy dense crops. So lets not be coy, muh marbling and pure grass fed beef are mutually exclusive.

>>10396494
>>10396494
>>>10396427 (OP)
>>Veganism better for the environment, our water sources and land are already strained and it will only get worse.
>If you do that, you have to find new terrains meant to grow protein-rich plants (because grazing fields aren't meant to be cultivated, ever) and do it en masse, with the result that you end up consuming MORE land and water.
Wtf are you talking about? Only 11% of soy is consumed by humans. Most high protein plants are grown and fed to animals. Which are extremely inefficient in converting them to meat

>>10396689

Live stock manure and bone meal are fucking excellent for that!

>>10396427
Those animals would have never lived the short happy lives they did without my need to eat.

The Chinese are ruining the environment far more than me with shitloads of factories and unfiltered coal power plants.

I don't give a fuck about water because I don't live in California and it all comes back next year anyway.

Take your dirty commie shit elsewhere sir.

Cause I already have enough trouble figuring out what to eat each day with meat on the menu

>>10396741
>Those animals would have never lived the short happy lives they did without my need to eat.
>implying 95% of them don't live horrible lives trapped in cages lying in their own shit and pus
>The Chinese are ruining the environment far more than me with shitloads of factories and unfiltered coal power plants.
Amerisharts are by far the most wasteful and destructive people on the planet and it's not even close
>I don't give a fuck about water because I don't live in California and it all comes back next year anyway.
Droughts are becoming more common every decade. Did you know that the Syrian Civil War was preceded by the worst drought in Syria's recorded history and a mass migration of rural people to the cities? If you think a million refugees is a lot, wait until there are a billion refugees fleeing wars fought over water access.

Counterpoint:
I like meat and this is a culinary board.

>>10396448
You're only doing yourself a disservice, anon.

>>10396494
Look fellas, you can disagree with veganism without shitty "no u" arguments.

>>10396805
No you.

Personally, I believe humanity won't ever kick its addiction to meat, so lab grown meat is prob the best compromise.

>>10396427
>IM HAPPY, LOOK AT ME

>LOOK AT ME!!!!!!

>LOOOOKKKKK ATTTT MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

My dumb cunt of a cousin is raising her child vegan, in his growing years. I fucking hater her more than cancer. Kids going the end up an underachieve mental deficient.

>>10396836
Fuck. Did she at least get it vaccinated? No father? Or is he just a beta?

Fun fact. Hot peppers developed their spice to deter people/other mammals from eating them. And you sick fuck vegans still eat them.

>>10396850

It's a normal couple, but she did "delay" vaccinations. Full cunting left coast idiotic ideas. And now the goddamn kid eats miso soup as a staple.

I'm honest to god livid. My own stupid fucking family is like this.

>>10396721
It doesn't matter, as long as you flush parts of the carcass out to sea you are depleting the land.

Can't get away from chemical fertilizer really, because humans just have too much poison in their shit and bodies.

>>10396427
>Why aren't you a vegan, anon?
because I don't join cults

>>10396836
You're an idiot.

>>10397076

You're a dumb left coast cunt. Are we even? You want your kid growing up without protein? Are fucking really retarded or just being an asshole?

>>10397079
>you can't get protein from plants

you know, you don't have to just use your feelings and say stupid shit with no basis; you're on the internet. you have google.

Most vegetables have protein and so do beans.

Why do you think you're in any position to call anyone retarded when you're saying something with absolutely no basis but your feelings?

>rawvana
So THAT'S who that wetback piece of shit calls herself who gets posted here making avocado smoothie abominations or whatever the fuck they are. Can't wait till she hits 35 and turns into el goblino-creatura

>>10397107

yep, children that grow up vegan are so healthy.

>>10397107
Anon. If you want to go vegan as an adult go for it.
If you want to use witch doctor voodoo medicine, deny blood transfusions, or whatever sure. But developing young children incapable of making their own decisions have serious health risks you are exposing them to for your own ideological reasons. It's inhumane.

>>10397116
I'd like to drench her whole face with my rancid beef-smelling seman

>>10397117
so, you were wrong about the protein and your rebuttal was entirely your feelings. Acknowledge that.

Your feelings also don't matter here either; you obviously can have a healthy kid who grows up vegan; there's nothing to suggest anywhere that this wouldn't be the case.

I grew up on frozen pizza and mcdonald's and turned out fine, but you're gonna tell me that having a vegan diet is somehow disastrous? Just actually look shit up before you talk about things cause your feelings could be misguided.

>>10397123
I mean you're conflating the idea of having a plant based diet with 'witch doctor voodoo'. You're not a person who's opinions are valued whatsoever.

>>10397116
cope

>>10397123
Sounds more like you're talking against religion there.

>>10397130

You need D, A, B, C, serum fat. You fucking people can't raise a kid. You'll end up with some kid with Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome. Some Hydrocephalus kid with vitamin deficiencies.

>>10396427
I'm allergic to tree nuts, so that salad would be bad for me

>>10397136
The reasoning behind the two are the same. The health "benefits" are the same. Now you are obviously the fucking moron
>>10397130
Is evidence. Do you think protein is tje only valid reason to eat meat? You think those kids are getting all their amino acids? What about Calcium and Vitamin D? Enjoy those rickets and being 10 pounds. The developing body needs a lot more care than your adult body does. So yeah that kid will love having Rickets cause mommy said Beans give you protein so you should irrationally give up on 2 entire food groups.
>>10397157
Veganism is a religion. Its the belief of irrational unscientific claims as a basis for your style of living.

>>10397116
Not gonna lie. She is almost hot enough to put up with the veganism. ALMOST.

>>10397158
According to Wikipedia, Wernicke-Korsakoff is caused by thiamine deficiency. Thiamine can be found in seeds, legumes, and whole grains. Thus a balanced vegan diet will not lead to Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome.

>>10397166
You're too emotionally charged for the conversation it seems. Wouldn't want you to give you a heart attack with your heart disease.

OP does this post every 3-4 days with a pic/webm of the exact same chick

how does /ck/ fall for shit bait so easily

>>10397182

And how many of you Chakra aligning fuck ups actually treat that properly? Or are you just busy chanting your mantra?

>>10397185
Not an argument.

>>10397190
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>10397190
You're genuinely autistic.

>>10396427
>Why aren't you a vegan, anon?
I have no need nor desire to be a special little snowflake...
>Veganism better for the environment, our water sources and land are already strained and it will only get worse.
Factually incorrect, however, I just don't care...
>Veganism gets rid of the unnecessary cruelty and murder caused by livestock farming. Veganism is philosophically superior, a large majority of ethics professors believe eating meat is unjustified.
Livestock 'farming' provides a way of life for millions...I do not purchase my meat from Asia, so no boiled alive doggo, and I have yet to meet an Ethics Prof with any genuine 'ethics' beyond general lip service...
>The only reason to be eating meat is if you're a shitty human being deficient in empathy and abundant in selfishness.
Correct...and money, I make good money and I can easily afford what I desire...
At the end of the day, you come across as a patronizing shitbag that not even a Mother would admit to birthing, You should look into politics under a Lib banner, you'll find what you seek there...

>>10397182
In this modern age, can't we just frickin' synthesize whatever we want/need? The best argument veganism has going for it is the waste animal raising produces, and lab grown meat's prob gonna fix that.

West coast idiots are fundamentally incompetent because of their culture. So take their wisdom and life as a creation of their fucked up lives.

>>10397200
>snowflake
Not an argument.

>>10397197

You know I'm not, dumbass. You're just a human mess.

>>10397197

REEE at me if you can do it without mom coming in.

>>10397213
You're a mental infant and a moron

>>10397221

totes, bro. Just a pranckque.

>>10397221

You're the guy I've been looking for here. Lets chat.

>>10397228
How about you kill yourself you worthless waste of oxygen?

>>10397233

past your bedtime already? I'd hoped you weren't just suicidal garbage. Oh well. Go to bed, or go eat bleach. It's up to you.

>look if I spend 10 years researching and meticulously shop and meal plan everything I can almost be as healthy as a normie who does the same.
Its always the same argument. I can spend 5 minutes on /fit/ to find a healthy enough diet plan. The amount of work you have to do to achieve that level of health is insane. The fact you can surpass nonvegans is false. We can eat all the same foods.
But more importantly I am not the pinnacle or health. I am somewhere inbetween. I like to eat out. I like to travel and enjoy cuisine from around the world. Make meals and expirement in the kitchen. This is a food and cooking board. I will not limit myself to a small subset of food. When invited to someones house I will eat whatever the fuck they are having. Because my parents raised me to be respectful.
>but vegan foood is delicous!
I dont agree. But this is a nonsrquitor. My sister loves vegan food. But she doesnt need to go vegan to enjoy it. We can still eat it so it is a nonsequitor.
Furthermore you fags pretend all we eat is mcdonalds cheeseburgers suggesting you aren't even vegans. Its not just meat. Its baking with eggs. Or making anything with dairy, i.e. creme milk or cheese. Have you fags been in a kitchen? How can you think you belong on /ck/ if you hate these? It means you can't wear moat clothing or use most furniture. Hell my fucking car runs on rotted dinosaur remains.

>>10397244
Exactly the kind of cringeworthy autistic reply I would expect from a cringeworthy autist like you

>>10397254

That's how you sound like an adult. Jesus dude. Stop talking. You really don't hear yourself, I assume?

>>10397254

You're that guy.

>>10397130
haha, I was vegan from age 11-18 on my own accord. I'm mostly fine, I got exposed to new cuisines and I definitely gained an appreciation for non-meat-based food. I eat meat now and probably have meat in appx 40% of my meals.

I wouldn't raise my kid vegan. I guarantee you I stunted my growth in some ways due to diet.

It's not that it's impossible to hit all the vitamins and correct levels of protein, etc, when you are vegan, but when you are a vegan 13 year old, unless mom and dad are feeding you every single meal (not the case for me), you are just eating ramen and junk food at all times. you are a dumbass kid. I would basically eat either ramen or greasy-ass fried vegetable rice from a chinese place all the time. occasionally slop from an indian buffet. at home I'd make the most gross vegan poverty meals, like rice + tomato chutney and that is it.

veganism works when a person is invested in doing the work to get a balanced diet, and most kids won't do that on their own.

>>10397260
Kys

>>10397274
Its not that.
From 0-5 its basically impossible to meet without meat. And even than the type of person to raise a kid vegan does not have the understanding or know how to make sure they get all their amino acids, vitamins etc. Even pill popping is not as good as just eating fucking meat. And the kid is too young to make educated decisions about it. You are literally malnourishing the kid against their will. At least give them moderate amounts of dairy, fish and poultry.

>>10397274

a goddamn diet is about how a fucking diet developes. You have massive diversity as a child, then a fast moving system, then a slower system then it slows while you age.

You stupid cunts can't even realize simple development like the dull assholes you are. Wake the fuck up before you all die.

>>10396427
>Why aren't you a vegan, anon?
Because this is a food and cooking board. Eggs, Milk and other dairy products are very common cooking and baking ingredients. Because there are many good meat products and sauces.
Better question. Why are you here OP? You obviously hate food and cooking?

>>10397283

At least you got your teenage genes out. So happy for you. KYS BRO!

>>10397289
do you know how to read?

I think you saw a big block of text, didn't read it and assumed that because there was some full sentences that I must be pro-vegan. read it again fool, I'm not.

>>10397348
Right. But I said your main concerns are not the biggest ones.
Hence "its not that" starting at 11 is WAAYYY better than from birth.

>>10397294
wat

r u on drugs?

>>10397351
ok

>>10396427
How do i get her to take my cucumber?

>>10397355
>r u on drugs?
Worse, he's on veganism. Religious zealotry rots the mind, arguably even more so when they don't get the fats to help it develop.

>>10397246
>I can spend 5 minutes on /fit/ and find a healthy diet plan

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1. It's not my fault the planet is fucked
2. It tastes good
3. Carnivores are a real thing
4. PETA is full of shit
5. I don't want to change my lifestyle for you people

VEEGAN?
YOU WHA?
WHATS THAT?
YOU AINT SWALLOWIN MY GOO?

>>10396427
I am, 5 years in now

>>10397454
Little bow peep? I fucked'a

I'm trying but a lot of meat replacement stuff tastes like ass or is full with unhealthy stuff to make it taste like real meat.

I know the slope is slippery, but kikes, you will NEVER eliminate meat from the white diet. Stop trying, you don't even need it to win. Your mongrel hordes will overtake us far before that's necessary.

>>10397392
Its really not that hard if you eat meat. Sorry lad.

>>10396427
why do you ask the same question when the answer never changes?

because it fucking tastes good. that's the only reason.

>>10397211
You actually admit your a spechul lidle snoflaq...you deserve a metal there Bud...

>The poorest people in the world would rather eat rats than go vegan
LOL

>>10397166
I think vegans are fucking dumb but you're an idiot.
>amino acids
>calcium
>vitamin D
All of these things are easily found in non-animal sources. If you want to be mad, be mad about little kids getting fed shitty diets regardless of veganism/vegetarianism. Focus this energy on murdering parents that free-feed their children McDonalds and coke.

>>10397852
>All of these things are easily found in non-animal sources
If you keep saying it maybe it will be true one day
>muh McDonalds
It's been an eternity since this hasn't been an argument. At this point you're just saying "niggers are stupid" in different language. Yes we know, and we aren't going vegan because "niggers are stupid".

>>10396427

>gets rid of animal cruelty
>lives in a 1st world city using amenities which directly result in the death and destruction of land animals once thrived on

>>10397416
>5.I don't want to change my lifestyle for you people

Results in nr 1. The world is fucked.

I'm not a vegan, but i don't eat alot of meat compared to before. All bits help.

>>10397852
Lots of parents feed their kids exclusively McDonald's.
Whenever someone tells these parents this is a problem they bring up McDonald's nutrition facts and strawman about how technically the salad can contain blah blah. Jared from subway lost weight so it is a valid diet. Oh fucking wait, that's vegans doing that. You can agree both are unhealthy but there is no McDonald's exclusive diet cult fucking up their kids.

>>10397339
Still nobody wants to address this?

Meat is delicious and animals that we eat aren't sapient.

>>10396427
They're terrorists.

>https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Woman-who-expressed-anger-at-YouTube-policies-12803675.php
>The woman suspected of opening fire at YouTube’s headquarters in San Bruno Tuesday was a disgruntled video-maker, Nasim Aghdam of Southern California
>Aghdam was quoted in a 2009 story in the San Diego Union-Tribune about a protest by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals against the use of pigs in military trauma training. She dressed in a wig and jeans with large drops of painted “blood” on them, holding a plastic sword at the demonstration outside the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base.
>“For me, animal rights equal human rights,” Aghdam told the Union-Tribune at the time.
>Aghdam appears to have kept up an active presence online, including on YouTube, where she posted several videos, mostly about animal rights, some of which appear to be graphic, including one of a dog being boiled alive. Other videos extol the virtues of a vegan diet and feature Aghdam performing exercise routines.

Ban assault vegans!

>>10397954
For every disillusioned special snowflake cracker who doesn't eat meat, there are thousands of people from Africa, Asia, and Latin America who will more than make up for your lack of consumption.

You are not important.

>>10396427
>Veganism gets rid of the unnecessary cruelty and murder caused by livestock farming.
Lab-grown meat will do the same thing without making people give up the benefits of a high quality protein source with iron, B12, etc.

>>10398767
>Africa
>having the resources to eat lots of meat
Other than that, good point

>>10397182
I was a vegetarian for a long time, eating lots of plant foods that are supposedly high in iron, but still had my iron level drop too low and had to start eating red meat again

>>10397107
>Most vegetables have protein and so do beans.
Not in the same quantities that animal products have, and usually not the same quality either.

Our rational thinking gets in the way of our instincts, instincts which dictate clearly what food we should be eating. Powers have abused this to enslave you.

Do you anons really think it has to be this difficult? Why do we "have" to go through hurdles upon hurdles just to meet our dietary needs? Why do we "need" to spend several hours each week cooking meals just so that we can use the nutrients? Why didn't our creator just birth us with cooking equipment from the get-go if it wanted us to waste time and resources cooking our meals? What's quicker, plucking a crisp, luscious apple off of a tree and taking a bite, or preparing (destroying) food that would otherwise be virtually inedible to us in its natural state?

I'm not opposed to eating meat, or even junk, for recreational purposes; that is what cooking, more or less, represents. But a perfect diet for us is as simple as it appears in nature, and we have the anatomy to prove it, and rational minds to decipher the habits of the wild animals around us, not to mention the ecosystem.

If you want to eat for health, eat fruits. If you want to eat animals, shellfish, vegetables, nuts, grains, rocks (salt), then be my guest, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's healthy when nothing in our nature indicates that we should eat it. And stop eating so damn much; underfeeding as opposed to overfeeding breeds good health. Fasting destroys health problems. Also, stop masturbating.

The proof is in the pudding.

(Of course, it seems our creator fucked up; we're headless chickens without our instincts, so we might as well succumb to these delights and enjoy ourselves while we're still alive, but remembering an optimal lifestyle when you start showing signs of disease will help you so much more than any "medicine" ever could.)

>>10398778
Cooking with cast-iron leaches iron into your food

>>10398797
it is not hard to get enough iron as a vegan

>>10398792
Please let this be pasta

>>10398826

>>10398817
The iron in plant foods isn't the same as the iron in animal foods. Iron from animal foods is more easily absorbed by the body.

>>10398873
heme iron is carcinogenic, no one should be eating it

>>10398880
Most people eat too much meat, it doesn't mean it's always bad. There is no perfect food that won't cause some kind of problem when overeaten.

You can get skin cancer from the sun but it's still beneficial in the right amount.

>>10398679
This. Vegans are fucking frootloops.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/04/03/youtube-shooter-idd-as-persian-azeri-vegan-activist-nasim-aghdam/

>>10398934
I've known a few vegans who do it for moral reasons and will keep it to themselves unless it's actually relevant. I've had good conversations with them.

But I've seen plenty of vegans who will laugh at people suffering from the tick disease that makes you allergic to meat, or just generally dehumanizing non-vegans, but still believing they're kind and moral and superior. I guess they kind of go crazy when they see how bad some factory farms can be and stuff like that, so they start becoming overzealous. It's a bit sad.

Veganism is for fags.

>>10398873
>Iron from animal foods is more easily absorbed by the body.

That's the same stupid argument as anti-nutrients. Oh no this micronutrient I have to eat in micrograms is 10% less likely to be absorbed ... however can you solve that?

If vegan food made carbs, fat or protein harder to absorb it would be slightly relevant. For the rest, just be sure to eat more of it.

Cuz im not a vegan fag. Excuse me im gonna eat a Angus Steak now.

>vegan bait thread #351853

Holy fuck guys, sage this already.

>>10397339
>>10398220
Sure I'll indulge because you are clearly desperate for attention.
I actually appreciate food and cooking more now I am vegan.
I ate most meat products I was going to try before so it's not as though I can't appreciate meat from a cooking viewpoint. But now i actually have to think about my diet (BTW all the nutrients and vitamins people make fun of vegans for struggling to get are often supplemented into animals) I actually care more about food.
Plus im a dirty weeb so I cook a lot of jap/SEA cuisine

>>10396427
Vegetarian is a diet.
Vegan is a political ideology.
It's one of the many postmodern applications of critical theory.

The horrors of even just one country's communist rule eclipses all the wrongs of the entire history of the meat industry.

I prefer the vegan girls getting blacked by ol jammal.

>>10396876
>And now the goddamn kid eats miso soup as a staple.
RICED
Is this the menu of underage child labor lmao

>>10397116
Oh I've seen this thots in wrbm threads making smoothie?
Half of the video is her making faces with tongue out

>>10397211
Lol triggered

>>10398772
>give up the benefits
The way you say that it makes me assume you don't understand where B12 comes from.

The stuff in your hamburger didn't just magically appear there, nor did God put it there to nourish His people as per the book of Genesis.

I eat meat, but I don't delude myself into thinking this makes me more "natural" or "caveman". Everything you depend on comes from "artificial" processes, you should try learning about the world you live in.

>>10396427
But a rise in veganism will lead to more bad labor practices along with destruction of ecosystems to make room for growing vegetables?

>>10396461
actually i dont see much empathy from vegans eithr, they seem to despise other humans and only care about dogs

>>10396461
>>10396427
So does this ass blasted soy boy just constantly use this place as his whinge blog? Only been here a week. But sure seems that way.

>>10397954
there are bigger threats to the future than make belive climate holocaust porn but you dont care about that

90% of fresh water supplies are used for agriculture, the majority of which is used for crops. Claiming battery farmed chickens are bad because muh ethics, yet risk of fresh water shortages for humans is increasing across the globe with a growing demand on water heavy meme crops. Calling normal omnivorous humans selfish is pretty hypocritical from vegans.

>>10399603
>>10399641
And 95% are not even used for human consumption. Nice try though. Whatever word twisting you try there's no way around the fact that it's ecologically benefitial. Not that I care about that.

>>10396770
>Amerisharts are by far the most wasteful and destructive people on the planet
US is a leader in percentage carbon emission reduction. So not only are you a preachy arsehole zealot, you are an ignorant liar.

>>10399641
36% of corn, one of the most common feed grains, is grown for livestock.
40% is grown for ethanol.
Stop lying you ignorant piece of shit.

>>10399655
Oops, meant for>>10399649

>>10396876
The antivax thing is so wierd, I've seen it come from every position left to right, and even some otherwise very intelligent people.

>>10399655
>>10399658
So that's 76% of corn just for those 2 purposes. Not sure what your point there is but fine.

>>10399662
Its because it isnt a left or right thing, its a momscience thing. At the outset of it some soccer moms discovered that once upon a time vaccines used heavy metals as a (some chemistry term) for the creation and preservation of vaccines. Injecting small children with heavy metals has similar outcomes to letting rhem eat lead paint chips.

Because I don't like it. I tried it for a week and I hated it. I will eat vegan once or twice a week but I cannot give up animal products. I value my taste buds more.

>>10399662
>>10399680
I once thought there was a valid point too. It's pretty bullshit, the only thing that's true is that vaccinations are hard on the immune system so spacing them out a little more than recommended might make sense for some kids with problems.

>every vegan argument ever
>I have to give up eating decent healthy food that my ancestors have eaten for tens of thousands of years, because some shitskin in apefrica can't stop shitting out mouths to feed
Nah, let's just genocide third worlders. Also, to piss OP off, I'm doing keto right now. My dinner last night was literally a giant pile of chicken.

>>10399693
Yeah. Basically they reevaluated everything the FDA had on the books in the 90s. When vaccines came up they found that the preservative in them had mercury compound as its base. Organomercury, mercury and carbon. The FDA found that vaccines had safe levels according to multiple standards, only failing babys under 6 months and under 7 lbs according to the EPA. Soccer moms lost their shit about it having mercury thinking it was methylmercury, the actual poisonous shit.

>>10399719
Distrusting official health standards is not entirely wrong, to stay on topic there's more than enough evidence that reducing LDL levels below the "optimal range" is benefitial. Not getting your kid vaccinated is plain retarded but I can understand the doubt, nobody wants their kid to get sick because of some percentile calculation. But then you better check the relevant biomarkers (I forgot what it was exactly) to support that doubt which nobody does.

>>10396427
Meat tastes good, and I got a nice big fat piece of meat in my pants you. Have a taste, soyboy.

>>10399768
>promoting faggotry
ew. gross.

>>10396427
I want to become a vegan because factory farming is fucking cancer but I've been eating meat for 27 years. I physically don't feel 'full' or satisfied when I don't have meat in my stomach. What are some plant-based foods I can eat that will sit in my stomach and make me feel full?

>>10399784
Seitan/tofu are kinda similar, lots of protein and fat and low carbohydrates. You'll get used to it anyway, no need to go cold turkey 100% vegan over night, just slowly replace your meat/dairy with vegan foods. You could also try meat substitutes, I think they're useless and only make you miss meat but maybe it helps. I've had decent vegan burgers and gyros.

>>10399784

legumes, mock meats

fyi feeling light is a good thing

>>10399784
>>10399809
Oh and that entire "SOOOOOOY" shit is just a retarded meme, the science very clearly says it's irrelevant to the endocrine system. /pol/ shit that spread all over 4chan.

>>10399784
>I physically don't feel 'full' or satisfied when I don't have meat in my stomach.
Eating meat for years isn't the reason for that.

Plants have very low caloric values. Mostly fiber and starch with some sugars, they tend to have very low amounts of fats and proteins. Carbohydrates, starches included, do not sate. You have to eat a lot of them to feel full, and you don't stay full. Proteins, and especially fats, have much higher satiety, so they keep you full for longer. Of course, meats are very high in protein and fat.

Humans evolved to have a fat-based metabolism, with glycolysis (burning carbohydrates) as a method to generate energy from carbohydrates while storing fat before food scarcity. Basically, you need to eat a shitload of plants, and eat them more often. We're not built to just eat plants, and doing so is difficult. In fact, I'd say you're never going to feel full just eating leafy vegetables. Seek out high-fat non-meat foods, like nuts and maybe tofu.

>>10399766
Distrusting the EPA, CDC and the slew of other agencies is one thing, questioning your government is a healthy part of democracy. These people saw mercury and freaked the fuck out thinking their children were being injected with methylmercury, a toxic compound that will kill you with micrograms of contamination. They were being injected with a vaccine containing organomercury, a common fungicide that they ate every day if they didnt wash their fruits with soap and water. Like sodium is toxic, chlorine is toxic, sodium chloride is one of the key building blocks of a functioning healthy organic lifeform

>>10396427
I fucking hate this bitch and I'm livid every time one of her shits is posted in a webm thread or similar
>video always starts with some picture of her with the """food""" with a stupid zoom-in effect
>the part where she actually makes the thing is incomprehensible, I assume she makes these as videos in the first place to show people how to make them (and as an excuse to act as a typical thot) but every time she shows an ingredient she never shows any labeling or actual measurement so you don't know what she's putting in and how much
>after she makes her devil's brew with mystery ingredients the rest of the video is just her ugly spic face making stupid faces for whatever reason
I want her to die.

>>10396427

Because I don't want the meat in my freezer to go to waste. I plan on becoming Vegan by the end of this week.

I was vegetarian for years so I won't have much issue going back to that but I fucking love cheese. It's gonna be rough but there has been a strong correlation to dairy and heart disease.

>>10399983
>It's gonna be rough but there has been a strong correlation to dairy and heart disease.
This is one of those things I see in a ton of dishonest vegan memes alongside red meat. What study found this and how was it conducted? Because its typically a study where the people involved are vegans and vegetarians who meticulously weigh and portion out everything they eat (and presumably has a regular fitness routine) compared to someone that stops and eats a 1400 calorie meal from mcdonalds on a whim, often more than 3 times a week.

>>10396546

That can't meet global demands. The market has spoken, and it wants cheap meat covered in shit and filled with steroids.

>>10399889
>methylmercury
>organomercury

Methylmercury is an organomercury and they are all fucking poisonous as hell. It's an adjuvant, it's meant to scare your body into a big immune response to quickly deal with the poison floating around in your veins.

It's worth the risk, but lets not pretend it's not poison.

>>10396427
yeaaaah i get to feel good about myself and give myself a big fuckin round of applause about saving the enviroment, saving resources, and polluting less while billions of chinese and africans dump tons of toxic chemicals into the ocean, destroy the rainforest, over hunt, over fish, pollute the sky until you cant see the sunrise, use all the earths rare metals, etc, etc. but dont worry, our progressive asses are gonna save the world one can at a time and feel GOOD about not having any children to reduce our carbon footprint. being a vegan is so much fun :^) we climbed our way over millions of years to the top of the food chain just to be cucked out by everyone else.
i-is it ok if I eat bugs off a banana leaf like a third world savage along with my greens or is that gonna contribute to hurting the earth, fuel my white male privlege or something?

>>10400057
>It's worth the risk, but lets not pretend it's not poison
I literally explained its a fungicide m8, its poisonous but it isnt going to make you retarded like you chugged quicksilver. You can OD on ibuprofen if you try hard enough but oxycodone is probably the better choice.

>>10400070
Im not telling you to kys, the ibuprofen thing is a metaphor

>>10400070
200mg of Thiomersal would very likely give you mercury poisoning, not lethal, but not healthy.

>>10400066
africans? LOL what the fuck are you talking about? they do none of that

>>10400101
Good thing most vaccines that had it were in the micrograms

>>10396770
The chinese are the worst polluters on the planet by a huge margin, you are objectively wrong.

>>10399181
I don't think you actually cook.

Responsibility is a social construct, I am responsible for nothing.

My body releases more pleasure chemicals via an omnivorous diet, the meaning of life is literally the pursuit of these chemicals.

>>10400144
Solipsism is fucking worthless. I'd execute all solipsists if I could.

>>10398984
I declare jihad on you carnists. Death to all who eat meat!

>>10400153
Not that anon but how is that solipsistic?

>>10400015

Watch forks over knives. I didn't pour over the data myself but experts in the field of nutrition did a 30+ year study with hundreds of thousands of people.

>>10400162
>I am responsible for nothing.
If you choose not to participate in society I believe I deserve the right to remove you from it.

>>10400167
Just because you exist in a society doesn't mean you have any responsibility to it or its inhabitants.

>>10400167
How anon achieves smashing pleasure center could contribute to society.

>>10400066

With this logic everyone should just be an amoral piece of trash. It's lazy reasoning.

There will always be people who do the wrong thing, that doesn't have anything to do with who you are as a person and the decisions you make. You can choose to conform and resign yourself to a garbage person, or you can rise above it.

>>10400169
You absolutely do. This is the foundation of human existence. If you choose not to engage in life in a way that benefits society, you do not deserve the benefits that society affords to you. You lose the right to all public services, roads, hospitals, etc. A quicker and easier solution would be a bullet to your selfish, worthless, solipsist head.

>>10400169

It does you waste of space. This reasoning is the reason why communities are disintegrating. No one has any responsibility anymore. You have lived an incredibly gifted life to believe that you can be part of a community but still have no responsibility for being a part of it.

>>10400164
>Forks over knives
>A vegan/vegetarian advocacy group that funded a documentary about how meat and dairy will kill you

>>10400233

Maybe you should have read the rest of the wikipedia article you brainlet

Through an examination of the careers of American physician Caldwell Esselstyn and professor of nutritional biochemistry T. Colin Campbell, Forks Over Knives claims that many diseases, including obesity, cardiovascular diseases, and cancer, can be prevented and treated by eating a whole food, plant-based diet, avoiding processed food and food from animals.[3][4][5][6]

The film also provides an overview of the 20-year China–Cornell–Oxford Project that led to Professor Campbell's findings, outlined in his book, The China Study (2005) in which he suggests that coronary artery disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer can be linked to the Western diet of processed and animal-based foods (including dairy products).[7]

Director Lee Fulkerson stated in an interview with Canada's National Post that the diet described in the film is called "whole foods plant-based" and that it advises people to eat "minimally processed things."[3][8]

I was mistaken that it was 30 years of data but 20 is still pretty fucking substantial.

>>10400270
>A vegan advocacy group funded documentary about how meat and dairy will kill you
Yeah, still what it says. Ill throw it up in the side bar while I work and see where it goes. Cant wait to see the usual data manipulation and bald faced lies.

>>10400270
Processed foods are less healthy, but only because they often contain large amounts of added carbohydrates.

The fact that they're conflating "processed foods" and "animal-based foods" into the same category is telling.

>>10400305

I'm well aware that the movie has an agenda. That doesn't detract from the findings of the study. The study was taking place well before the movie was conceived and the researchers involved are certainly more qualified than you or I.

>>10400330

>The fact that they're conflating "processed foods" and "animal-based foods" into the same category is telling.

As far as mass consumption is concerned I don't understand how the two are much different. The process of large scale meat harvesting is pretty bad for us objectively. Cows aren't built for a diet of corn but thats what they are fed. They get sick more often because of that so we counteract that by pumping them full of antibiotics. There is no denying that a healthy animal is better to eat than a sickly one. You are what you eat, and what your food ate.

>>10400410
>As far as mass consumption is concerned I don't understand how the two are much different.
Because proteins and fats have entirely different biochemistry from carbohydrates? How do you remember to breathe? Holy shit.

>>10400415

>Completely disregarding the rest of the comment that explains why food that's bad for you is bad for you regardless if it's because of a bunch of sugar is added or not.

Stay fat and unhealthy neckbeard.

>>10400423
No one ever said that it's healthy to eat sickly animals pumped full of antibiotics, you pea-brain. Yes, obviously that's unhealthy.

But the study wholesale says animal products are unhealthy and conflates them with all processed foods, which is patently ridiculous. Yes, eating unhealthy animals is unhealthy, but that doesn't mean eating animals is inherently unhealthy. Your argument is a strawman.

>>10396427
I like meat

>>10399813
You know the real reason I even clicked on this thread. Just a scrolled through and looked at vegan waifu.

>>10396427
>yadda, yadda, yadda

Go suck some cocks, fag.

>>10400394
>The study was taking place well before the movie was conceived
Yeah this documentary is the usual tripe so Im going to skip to reading this China Study while some code compiles.

>>10400436

My argument isn't a strawman because the study shows that eating processed foods/dairy and meat is bad for us.

You concede that mass produced meat IS bad for us. So what exactly is your argument?

I never said meat has to be bad for us, I said that meat by and large is bad for us because it is a processed food. If you can get grass fed organic beef then bully for you. You just need to keep in mind that there is a correlation to eating processed food, meat and dairy and heart disease, attacks, strokes, etc. There needs to be more refined research to prove if healthier meat is indeed healthy for us or if it's just healthier than the alternative.

They have a 20+ year study, what exactly do you have?

>>10400499

That's up to you. The film consist of the two researchers who conducted the study talking about the study. If you'd rather read it then enjoy.

>>10400546
>many diseases [...] can be prevented and treated by eating a whole food, plant-based diet, avoiding processed food *and* food from animals.
> The China Study (2005) in which he suggests that coronary artery disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer can be linked to the Western diet of processed *and* animal-based foods (including dairy products).
>whole foods plant-based
Emphasis on the "and" in those quotes.

You are citing these studies, which wholesale label all meats and animal products as unhealthy, and making no indication that you disagree with the specifics. You are in a vegan thread, arguing vegan talking points. Say what you fucking mean, because if you don't say what you mean and adequately articulate your arguments, no one is going to understand what you're fucking saying. you don't spend a conversation talking about how bad meat is, then when you get called out for being retarded, defend yourself with "geez I didn't say ALL meat is bad!"

Not surprising that a vegan lacks brain power, though.

>>10400551
I know youre a vegan so this may be hard to hear but The China Study they are refering to isnt the nutritional study performed by universities in China, England and America over a couple decades. Its the book they wrote analyzing the results of that study and explaining what it all means. They certainly took part in the study, but so far most of these claims are pretty outlandish.

To anyone that wants to read this delightful absurdist comedy, google The China Study pdf and theres 4 links for a free pdf file.

>>10400569

If you had actually read the comment chain you would be smart enough to know I'm not vegan. At least not yet.

You're also too foolish to read what I read and understand what I'm saying.

1) Study conducted says that all processed food, meat and dairy is bad for us.
2) I say that there are risks from eating dairy and mass produced meat. I cite my reason for believing that from 1.

Those two things do not contradict your blithering idiot.

1 says that all meat is bad, I don't know that I necessarily believe that all meat is bad but that study points that it is. I think there has to be more refined research on a mass scale that dissects organic/healthy meat and dairy from mass produced meat before I would say all meat/dairy is bad for you definitively, so instead I say there is a risk based on the correlation from the study.

>>10400612

You're so smart yet you can't read the first comment in the chain that shows I'm not vegan? I'm not even vegetarian again yet.

>>10400649
No but youre buying the snake oil like a gullible retard and peddling it as anything but. The actual China Study btw is below, I cant find a free pdf version so far

Diet, life-style, and mortality in China: A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties[Chen J].


The pdf for The China Study by Campbell (it will automagically download when you click this)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.socakajak-klub.si/mma/The%2BChina%2BStudy.pdf/20111116065942/&ved=2ahUKEwik9o7vmKHaAhWos1kKHbzGDvsQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3Y040BEwk4k5woPWY6O6rL

>>10396427
>Veganism is philosophically superior, a large majority of ethics professors believe eating meat is unjustified.
I'd love to see a source for this claim

>>10400659

>Expecting me to read through the study before this thread dies.

I'll just sit here and wait while you tell me what parts of it are contradictory to the argument they make.

>>10400667

>Killing a sentient creature so that you can fill your gullet.

I'd love to hear some philosophical insight that can explain away why doing such a thing is moral.

>>10400670
Dont call it a study, it devotes less than 10% to referencing any actual scholarly work. Thats if you inclube Campbells own work. You want me to start with the straight lies, the statistical manipulation, or the junk studies fampai?

>>10400682

You gonna ask me questions with supposed contradictions or are you going to actually show them to me?

for me, I love vegans now

This thread. I'm going to try Veganism now.

>>10400682
See this part I find funny about Vegans, they claim that the meat industry and the dairy industry pay for fudged studies, I have heard that claim many times that almost any study that proves eggs are good for you or that pork is a healthy lean meat are paid for by the meat industry and therefore falsified so they obviously believe that with enough money you can pay fr a study to say whatever you want it to.

Then comes along the China Study, and Forks over Knives that have a blatant obvious agenda and the studies presented by the researchers themselves who have a clearly transparent bias claims that veganism is he way and it is treated like gospel without a single hint of doubt.

Cognitive Dissonance at it's finest

>>10400713

I'm still waiting for contradictory information samefagsenpie

>>10398988
It's more like 30%-50% less like to be absorbed. I had already said I was eating a lot of plant foods that are high in iron but still had my iron levels drop too low and had to start eating red meat again. "Just eat more" isn't a good solution.

And plant proteins are harder to absorb and usually of lesser quality than animal proteins.

>>10396427
Veganism isn't going to solve the damage humans are causing to the environment. We need a big fucking plague to decimate the population. And my decimate means: have only 10% left in the end. 700 million is still a huge amount of people, but not big enough to have any significant effect on the environment. And they can enjoy all the meat they want. Meat that doesn't have to be industrialized.

>>10400734
Yeah because that population of 700m won't grow to current numbers again. That's a stupid solution. Better technology to deal with current problems will always be a better solution than just "lol kill people".

We're already coming up with better ways to remove pollution from the air and bodies of water.

>>10400726
Not the same guy buddy

I do remember in one Forks over Knives segment the guy spoke about some cancer rates dropping during german occupation of norway in WW2 and it completely neglected that Nazi bullets and mortar fire kill you a hell of alot faster than cancer or heart disease so while the Nazi took all the farm animals for themselves Norway wasn't healthier during the time the Nazi were taking meat from them but that was what was being claimed

I dislike factory farming but am too poorfag for ethically raised livestock. Lab grown meat needs to be a thing already

>>10400688
Junk studies it is
>All animal protein is bad
>Why is it bad?
>Indian researchers found that rats with a high animal protein diet died earlier than rats with a high plant protein diet when also administered aflatoxin (peanut stuff)
Where does this become junk studies?
>The rats were fed a high protein diet comprised entirely of casein (one of many milk proteins) or a high protein diet comprised of whey.
>Rats already have seperate findings that they have a far worse susceptibility to cancer growth with casein specifically, and the inverse for whey
>In fact, we have been through preliminary studies that whey might even reduces cancer risks in humans
>Despite this, campbell only uses this study, using a specific protein that gives mice cancer against a specific protein that reduces the same cancer
But wait, we havnt even dug into the data yet!
>Cancer development was cited, but what wasnt cited was how long the rats actually lived
>Of the low protein diet 22, 6 died in the first six months, the last died after two years
>None of the casein rats died in the first year, but they did die before the last vegan rat
>The amount of peanut stuff given? The human equivalent would have been 280,000 PB sandwiches over 4 days worth of aflatoxin.
This is the Aha! Moment that lead Campbell to begin his crusade against animal proteins. But like him, I left out the other part of the study.
>They did a similar study alongside this with chimps, same diet but a realistic aflatoxin intake.
Cont. In the next post

>>10400726
It isn't contradictory so much as pieces left out of the conclusion that paint a different picture than the one Cambell came to, he cherry picked the data to come to a predetermined conclusion. look up the China Study and Tuoli which Cambell conveniently never speaks about even though they eat twice as much meat and fat as the average American in their diets they had lower cancer rates than any of the low animal protien countries that are the crux of his argument reason being that they are farmers and probably do hard labor in the fields but the animal flesh didn't effect them getting cancer or heart disease any.

>>10399784
this is good advice. >>10399822
you could also starting eating heavy foods with a bit a of organic meat in them. cuban cuisine is big on lentils with pieces of meat in it to give it taste and you can feel full for the rest of the day. mix that with rice and you have a great meal if you put nuts on the side along with some leafy greens.

>>10400744
There's a ton of technically correct but twisted info pushed by vegans. People in any movement will do it of course but it's just bullshit. Like these two pics that I've seen posted here lately. They are technically correct but fail to mention the info for the 100g of beans is for dry beans which are literally inedible, and that when cooked it would be about half the amount of protein. And that 100 calories of broccoli is 11 ounces, while 100 calories of beef is 1.5 ounces. So you'd have to eat like 7 times the amount of broccoli to get almost the same amount of protein as you would get from beef.

Factory farming is bad, and that should be the major focus, instead of being misleading and trying to say animal products themselves are bad. But lab-grown meat will do more to help animals than lying to people will.

>>10400688
Google the name Denise Minger she does a good job of showing that the China Study is a good fountain of raw dietary data but that Cambell's conclusions are completely cherry picked and total bullshit under scrutiny

There are ethical reasons to be vegan, I can even see being vegan if you had like Crohn disease or something if it was easier for your system to digest without you being in constant pain or shitting yourself, but face it Cambell is a conman who is trying to push an agenda to sell documentaries and books

>>10400763
To quote those darling poo doctors
>Monkeys on low protein diet surviving for 90 weeks or more show foci of preneoplastic lesions, whereas those on high protein diet reveal no such alterations at the corresponding time interval...It appears that in the simian model used by us, the liver injury caused by [aflatoxin] is accentuated by simultaneous restriction of dietary protein and in animals on such combined regimen preneoplastic lesions appear around 90 weeks of experiment. These observations suggest a synergism between protein calorie malnutrition and aflatoxin induced hepatocarcinogenesis and may explain the higher incidence of hepatocellular carcinoma in certain areas of the world where contamination of foods with aflatoxin and malnutrition are prevalent.
Simply put, animal protein, or at least casein, was counteracting the known carcinogen in peanuts. All you had to do was not study an animal that literally gets cancer from what youre testing.

The China Study, not the book but the study of chinese diets and mortality, was junk studies. It was just a collection of data from a bunch of counties of how people lived and how they died, pulling a conclusion from raw numbers like that would be silly. The numbers Campbell quotes are raw data that includes being stabbed, hit by a car or sucked into an escalator alongside cancer as its just a total death rate. Any number of researchers who worked to decipher the meaning of this raw data, >>10400815 denise for one, showed literally the opposite of what Campbell is insisting.

>Among those aged 0-64, total protein returned a 29% negative association with overall mortality. In other words, increasing protein intake was associated with a decreasing risk of death. This finding was statistically significant. In all age groups, egg consumption was negatively associated with all-cause mortality, with a statistically significant 43% decrease in overall mortality among those aged 0-64.

Raw lies or number games next?

>>10400814
so does the meat lose proteins when cooked as well?couldn't you solve that problem by eating twice the amount of beans?

>>10400814

100 calories of broccoli is not that much actually. Broccoli is pretty calorie dense. It's like 2 cups? 2 cups of broccoli is going to physically fill your stomach more. The beans are not dried, the fuck you talking about?

You post is literally a misleading shitpost. Go to myfitnesspal or any nutritional site if you don't believe the info, it'll prove that you're incorrect.

>>10400814
Actually I doubt that lab grown stuff is another discussion entirely but in general lab grown meat is basically void of almost all nutrients it is a hunk of protien like whey powder in flesh form. you need blood flow and metabolism to add vitamins and minerals to muscle/flesh and lab grown stuff lacks both of those things. I think there will be a market for it and it will threaten some factory farming but it won't be where we get the majority of our meat from ever and it won't completely eliminate the need for factory farms in our society I would say going local is probably the best way to curb the factory farm industry, smaller local farms with the country would stimulate the economy (rather than import meats that we rely on now) help rural areas that are poor as shit right now but have lots of land, and return society to a time when farmers were valued, plus that would increase the breeds of pigs and cattle that are dying out due to lowered demand (like Berkshire pigs) it is a bit more expensive though but a cultural shift could help change that

>>10399822
>they tend to have very low amounts of fats and proteins.

So add some TVP and oil.

>>10400835
>so does the meat lose proteins when cooked as well?
Not really, it loses some water so it actually has a slightly higher protein content for the same weight. A more apt comparison would be beef jerky vs dry beans, not fresh beef that is already like 75% water.

>couldn't you solve that problem by eating twice the amount of beans?
I guess you could but our stomachs aren't able to handle an unlimited amount of food. You would have to eat like 3 cups of beans to get your daily protein, over a pound, and you'll be getting too much fiber while not having enough room to eat other foods to get other nutrients. And you would have to eat even more if you were physically active at all. AND you probably wouldn't be getting enough calories eating this way either.

>>10396427
Everything has a right for self-preservation and we're just enforcing it over other living beings. Also, veganism is a cult and I'm not even memeing.

>>10400835
Actually meat technically gains potential protein absorption from the body as it cooks due to anti-nutrient enzymes being denatured during the cooking process. Raw eggs technically have no proteins the body can use, cooked egg whites do

Also having to eat twice as many calories for similar nutrients kinda proves meat is naturally the most efficient diet for the human body and therefore supposed to be apart of our diet doesn't it?

>>10400870
Actually no bullshit but Cows really are killers

Call me when you invent your own food and stop trying to do vegan hotdogs, pizzas, tacos and whatnot.

>>10400845
It's still in development and they recognize those issues of nutrients not being formed. I'm sure at some point they'll figure out a way to have those things develop along with the protein.

A lot of people recognize that buying from local farms is better, but they still want to be able to have meat without having to kill for it some day. I know that killing for food is natural, but natural doesn't mean it's good and that we just have to accept it without trying to change it.

>>10400882
I'm not a vegan but most vegans are probably doing it for moral reasons, not taste. So it's not a very good argument to use against them that they're trying to make tasty vegan alternatives.

>>10400867
>>10400873
yeah you boys are right. more effective to eat meat to get protein as opposed to cooked lentils. uncooked lentils are packed with proteins from what i'm reading but boiled ones lose 65% of their original protein amount. what bout other nutrients? couldn't you fill those up with vegetables and fruits in order to get the necessary vitamins?

>>10400894
>Lose protein
Not exactly. It sucks up a bunch of water so it loses protein by weight. 100g of raw lentils vs 300g cooked lentils is pretty much ~200g of water and some salt. Most vitamins and minerals could be gotten through a vegan diet, but the stuff that you miss out on is a major part of your nervous system and brain function

>>10400894
Well yeah ideally you should, Man was never meant to live off meat alone. Still meat is better for certain nutrients like iron (spinach is good but comparing spinach to any amount of meat and meat still has much more) but for nutrients like vitamin C or A, meats are practically devoid and you still need them from veggies and fruits, you body can synthesize alot of vitamins but it's still better if you get them from your diet.

>>10400739
>lol kill people
You've got to be out of your fucking mind if you think technology will "just solve" the problems this gigantic overpopulation is causing. It will just delay the inevitable till we reach the next level of critical numbers, as our technological progress has already caused.

"Hey look, 20% more environmentally safe cars." Few years later: "hey look, 20% more people. 20% more roads too. And environment destroyed for farming and houses" It is futile, you insufferable shortsighted dumb shit.

We need to come to our god damn senses and bring back the population. If not by coming to our senses, then the hard way. Over and over again, if needed. Not "lol", you fucking idiot: it's necessity, because people (like you) are just too stupid to keep it in their pants and think they are entitled to fucking up the planet.

Literally.

>>10400892
moral reasons more like psychological trauma

>>10400919
If i don't have kids, stupid people will. My kids need to kill their kids

>>10400919
Population is currently exploding because the world is industrializing, and even poor places are getting more and more wealth. As life expectancy and general well-being increases, cultures stop having so many children. In most of the developed world, population is growing very slowly. In many places, it's even gotten to the point where it's declining.

Most current models, when factoring in economics and reduced child births due to availability of resources, predict that the global population will stabilize somwhere around 11-12 billion iirc.

That's still a lot of people, but it's perfectly manageable. Yes, we still need to solve food problems and environmental problems, but it's not some horrible uncontrolled runaway reaction.

You're basing your opinions on nothing. There is not a single bit of data that actually backs up your arguments when you look at the entire picture and properly apply the models. You are a pseudointellectual, reactionary failed normie.

>>10400919
We should start colonizing other planets, that might help, instead of sitting around fantasizing about killing people and believing we won't be one of the ones who are killed. It's almost as bad as people who are obsessed with zombie shit but believe that they wouldn't be one of the people who become a zombie even though it happens to like 99% of the planet.

You are literally someone who wishes they were Rick Grimes from the TV show The Walking Dead.

>>10400883
No I agree I just see lab-grown meat as more of a futuristic rocket car thing
Great in idea, technically it exists but it isn't what people were actually expecting it to become and I am just doubtful it is this savior of mankind some people make it out to be. I can see it being mass produced and fortified but I honestly don't see it being all that popular over traditional farm raised (even factory farm raised) meat, ever even in developed countries where the producers will market it as 'ethical meat' I am sure. I can see it being a novelty item at whole foods next to the soyrizo and maybe if it is cheap enough McDonald's will use it for big macs but if so it be associated as trash tier food. That is too say nothing about how it tastes which none of us know, even if they fortify it, most animal meat gets it's flavor from what the animal eats so for that it can be assumed lab grown stuff is bland at best, in order to add taste the producers will need to use artificial flavorings which again leads me to believe it won't be much more than a novelty food or cheap alternative to already low grade meats

I think the idea is cool and I might be wrong but the more thought I give to lab grown meats the more I come to the conclusion it will probably be disappointing to the expectations and possibilities, I had high hopes for GMOs once and that turned out to be a worse situation than I expected

>>10396427
Veganism is retarded and for moral brainlets.

>>10400944
Except we'll run out of clean water and other natural resources long before Africa&Co can industrialize to our levels. We can stop them from starving (for now) but we can't give them first world living standards.

So unless someone invents some Star Trek level fabber which can just produce technological devices from dirt, we're heading for disaster.

>>10400814
To get 100 calories of broccoli you'd have to eat about 300g of it, that's a lot of broccoli for one meal

>>10400961
Those are all good points to bring up, and definitely something that should be talked about to keep people from becoming unrealistic in their expectations. But yeah it's still just really early in development, and I would imagine that when it's cheap enough to get into stores, it'll drive competition between companies to produce tastier and higher quality lab meats. It has the potential to basically be an unlimited goldmine if they can produce something that's as good as the highest quality "real" meat at some point.

>>10400970
>Except we'll run out of clean water and other natural resources
Do you have a single fact to back that up? (no)

Anyway, countries in the middle east and pacific asia are currently industrializing, and they're doing it orders of magnitude faster than the West and east Asia did it because there's so much infrastructure and economy outside their own country they can interact with, and there are so many examples to follow. Some countries have accomplished in 20 years what it took the West 150 years to do. And we see the same population progression we see in the west--declining birth rates due to decrease infant mortality and greater availability of resources.

Africa may or may not industrialize, but frankly, I don't see a reason to care. They're not polluting anything, and they're kind of a non-factor, unless you consider their well-being your personal responsibility. You can make the argument that raising other countries' standards of living is good for everyone due to an increased global GDP and a greater amount of technical R&D, but eh.

>>10400983
Yeah nobody would start believing that vegan propaganda push if you showed them the volume or weight comparisons. Obviously broccoli is still healthy, I'll eat like 200g of it with a meal sometimes because it's tasty, but that's still with 200-250g of meat or cheese or eggs for the fat and protein.

I would have to eat like 2100g of broccoli to get enough protein every day lol. That would be ridiculous.

>>10399813
this is obviously aimed at kids
and that's why it's fucking dangerous

>>10400984
See I think that's where we probably differ, I just don't see lab grown stuff ever being considered high quality like again I could be wrong but I can see it replacing soy protein or TVP that is used in things like TV dinners but other than possibly an initial boom from just the novelty factor of it once the mass production aspect is perfected I can't see it being considered in the public's mind as comparable to farm raised stuff even if it is in almost every other way besides production (which again I doubt is even possible to create based upon what I have learned about it and my own food knowledge) but the future will really be the only thing to tell and maybe there is some unknown factor I am not considering or the tech is different than what I think it could be

>>10401004
>Do you have a single fact to back that up?
Syria is a case in point, population pressure on water resources (there was no significant reduction in rainfall) helped bring them to war.

Something predicted in a many way prescient RAND analysis from 2008 :
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG738.pdf
"Increasing populations and the effects of creeping desertification are reducing per capita water availability to dangerously low levels
in Iran, Egypt, the West Bank, and the whole of the Arabian Peninsula. Sustainable development is difficult to accomplish when water scarcity exists. Water shortages raise the prospect that water might be used as a weapon in future conflicts."

Or this article from nature :
"Rapid population growth2 however means that even with the most optimistic yield improvements it is unlikely that Africa will be self-sufficient in food by 2050. Particularly at risk are countries in the Sahel region, northern Africa and the Horn of Africa."

If we colonized Africa, we could perhaps uplift their societies in time. Africans managing it on their own, that's a laugh. The Nile countries will probably have the first big water war in Africa, driven by overpopulation ... just like Syria.

>>10401082
Oops, forgot the Nature link. The nature article is mostly about water scarcity and technological solutions we could pull off, but which African nations will mostly not be able to for various reasons (war, lack of stable governance, IQ etc).

https://www.nature.com/news/agriculture-increase-water-harvesting-in-africa-1.17116

>>10401071
I had been thinking about how it seems like a lot of older people were totally against lab meat because it's new to them, but for a younger generation to grow up with it would make them more accepting. Especially since the problems with factory farming are more common knowledge now than they were 50 years ago. And adding in something like a popular celebrity endorsement would help with that too.

>>10401112
I can see it as a fad but one that will die out in popularity and it once created it will be around in some form or another again like TVP/soy protein that you find in alot of things nowadays but most people even after knowing about the conditions of factory farms still aren't willing to give up or even reduce consumption of meats earthlings came out over a decade ago and alot of the conditions were debunked (they were already laws making that stuff illegal and some of it was edited in a misleading way) you have the China Study that was also used misleadingly, Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dying that is essentially a Vitamix commercial with a vegan twist, and PETA still isn't all that popular among any age demographic (especially considering they euthenize almost every animal they come across) the ELF that while admittedly were set up by the FBI never shook the association of being a radical terrorist organization. Campaigns that are actually sensible and meet people halfway like Meatless Mondays are still utter failures. I don't see a few celebrity endorsements like Alexa Vega or Woody Harrison changing that especially if a mega conglomeration like Kraft uses it for cost cutting in low tier foods and that is still dependent on it being cheaper than TVP that is already in use and already hit factory farms as much as possible

>>10401204
Even with an alternative I don't see Veganism being the future

>>10401112
We already grow lab grown meat that can be purchased at ~$11 a lb. It aint ribeye, it aint filet, and it doesnt really taste like anything. We would need to get to where this meat can either replicate certain cuts (being able to grow bones and fats) or to where its cheap enough to get down to the level of bland, tasteless meat (McDoubles). A McDouble has 6 oz of uncooked ground beef on it and costs $1.39. the price of a McDouble isnt just the beef though. The buns, pickles, the three sets of hands that made it, the building it was made in etc all are added into that price. McDonalds profits a fraction of a cent on that cheeseburger. The meat grown in a lab needs to drop to like $1 a lb before you see it become a common alternative to factory farmed beef. Even if you advertised it as cruelty free meat, its a fast food joint. 99% of people who come in dont give a rats ass.

>>10401212
If you want a future related to veganism look up vegan leather it is cultivated kombucha SCOBY that is dried and used far less chemicals than traditional leather, is ethical, biodegradable, and cheap to make only reason our jackets aren't already made from the stuff is it is supremely absobant so your jacket will triple in weight if you get caught in the rain, still it might make for a good alternative for paper towels, pic related to grow some at home
>>10401239
Source for $11 a pound figure? Just curious as I have never seen an actual number figure for the pan grown stuff beyond an article about some dinner where it was the featured course and responses were not all that positive just that it has 'potential' that was a buy in to a few courses not just the meat itself

>>10401306
http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/answering-how-a-sausage-gets-made-will-be-more-complicated-in-2020
Vegans still wont touch the stuff, its not some chemical soup that became meat, its cow cells extracted and used to grow a sample so its still an animal product

>>10401343
Thanks and yeah vegans won't but ethical vegetarians might I always figured it was more or less stem cells grown into muscle fiber

>>10401377
Im not even sure about that. If one cows death makes 2000 burgers instead of 20 are vegetarians going to start being okay with it?

>>10401437
Why would you have to kill the cow to extract some stem cells? It would be an animal product really no different from eggs or milk.

>muh morals
I don't want to be an edgelord, but give me one good reason I should give a shit about morals as long as I'm not getting into any legal trouble and enough people care for all the major systems to work.

We're all going to fry to death once the ozone layer's gone

>>10399626
Scratch that. Cats. Toxoplasmosis harbouring fucks

>>10401082
>>10400970
I like how people act as though water resources haven't been a cause for war for basically all of human history.

The number of people killing other people over some argument about a sky monster is greatly exaggerated.

The fact that certain areas are currently experiencing water-related conflicts doesn't mean things are getting worse. It means they're staying as shitty as they always have been.

>>10401437
well yeah one death is better than multiple deaths
>>10401500
It's still an animal byproduct and the 'animal slavery' logic still follows

>>10396461
god why do you fucks/cucks always need to say something
it really wont change anyone opinion and most of the world still eats meat

>>10396427
because i like eating animals and i dont give a shit about your feelings
god forbid everyone becomes vegan, you would have to take turns eating meat so everyone else can lecture sommeone on why being vegan matters (it doesnt)

>>10400833
>>10400763

Goddamn, has a fagan ever been so BTFO? Based anon bringing the ruckus.

>>10396427
Because I ain't a thot

>>10403198
>fagan
what?

>ruckus

>>10396427

>>10396427
I'm just going to comment pretending that all your claims are 100% true before I actually answer why I'm not

Firstly
>Veganism better for the environment, our water sources and land are already strained and it will only get worse.
This to me, seems more like a reason to start culling people so we could stop the abuse of the Earth than anything really

>Veganism gets rid of the unnecessary cruelty and murder caused by livestock farming.
Cool I guess

>Veganism is philosophically superior, a large majority of ethics professors believe eating meat is unjustified.
Well it's a good thing I'm not a philosopher

>The only reason to be eating meat is if you're a shitty human being deficient in empathy and abundant in selfishness.
Really? Fuck, I guess we should lock up the majority of people on the planet for the safety of the world

Now I get this is bait, but I'm bored and feel like replying, so congratz
Anyways, I'm not vegan for a few reasons including but not limited to; I like the taste of dead flesh, I don't particularly enjoy vegetables, and I enjoy animal by-products because you can make tasty shit with it
However the biggest reason is, I simply don't care
I care enough to clarifymy stance, but I don't care about the earth, the animals, the health benefits, none of it
I don't care, only because I know that I as a single man cannot change jack
Why would I willingly subject myself to a lifestyle that only succeeds in hurting my ability to enjoy life?
To get some sick sense of superiority over everyone else because, "wow I don't adhere to being an omnivore, I'm so evolved!"?
I don't care if you do your own ego-stroking/fool's errand (if you think you can save the planet), but me?
I'll continue to do what I enjoy because that's the best I can do
Whether that makes me lesser than you in some way, well woopie
I'll continue being pragmatic and only have empathy only for those I can actually help

>>10404117
Vegans already want to cull people. The problem is that they want to cull white people only, and except for Australian Abos, we breed the least. By a lot.

>>10396427

>>10403198
I cant argue with ethical vegans, aint much for ethical debate. I hold a burning rage towards health vegans since their entire group is made up of snake oil salesmen and the gullibe boobs that buy into it.

>>10396770
>millions die in the californian civil war

i can only hope.

>>10403198
>fagans
what did he mean by this?

>>10396427
I don't like beans, tofu or lentils. On a vegan diet I wouldn't be able to reach my protein goal of 80g without going over calorie goal of 1500.

>family member is vegan
>not just vegan but also has a byzantine system of intolerances
>eats an extraordinarily limited variety of foods to be prepared in such specific ways that it feels literally impossible to eat with her regardless of how much effort people put in
>you basically need to run through the planning of every meal step-by-step with her to accommodate her
>she grew up eating shitloads of the things she's currently avoiding
>she's psychologically imbalanced, approaching menopause childless, shit job, weird looking
>I'm supposed to believe her physical ailments are caused by specific vegetables and wheat instead of the psychological toll her retarded lifestyle and bad choices have charged her
I swear people use this shit as a way to explain away their mental problems sometimes

>>10405059
he's Twist posting, it's the newest fad right now

>>10405066
>I swear people use this shit as a way to explain away their mental problems sometimes
That's literally all it is. It's a way to be different, and avoid facing the reality that 1) you have brain damage, and 2) you're not a special snowflake.

The less extreme forms often want to be trendy. No one has fucking "mild gluten sensitivity", you either have celiac's disease or you fucking don't and spoiler alert you fucking don't. But hey, the trendy person all the people like said gluten is bad, and that company is selling holistic, free-range, gluten-free oraganic kale farts, so it must be healthy!

Normies are extremely gullible consumer whores who are absurdly susceptible to marketing.

>>10396427
That plate of food she's holding actually looks pretty good but after a couple of days of eating like that I'm gonna need to eat a steak or at least a piece of fish.

>>10405094
>Twist posting
what did he mean by this?

>>10405066
one of the first things they do if you go to rehab for eating disorder is get forced to give up any veganism/vegetarianism. maybe she has an eating disorder.

>>10405238
veganism helped me end my eating disorder. I can eat shit tons and feel good.

>>10405482
sure, but that doesn't negate what I'm saying though. veganism isn't some sort of panacea, some people use it to obscure unhealthy relationships with food

Veganism is a higher form of human evolution that most evolved cultures have.

It takes a higher level of brain function and empathy to care for lower life forms. This ability to empathize and care is literally what separates us from the unevolved savage peoples.

All humans will eventually evolve to being one with nature and become some form of vegans. The animal murderers and savages will likely go extinct, as they should.

>>10406525
Should have let vegetarian Hitler win instead of the jews who want to slit the necks of animals and let them slowly bleed to death.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! WHY CAN'T YOU REALIZE VEGANISM IS GOOD FOR YOU?!?!

HOW MANY PEOPLE DO I HAVE TO SHOOT TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?!?!?

>>10396427
because its hard to not cook for yourself and still eat vegan.
dont have much time to cook with job and other responsibilities. its easier to eat out if you are just vegetarian, since cheese and eggs can substitute a lot for meat.
its still not ethical because of factory farming to consume dairy and eggs, but the only way to eat proper and vegan is to constantly prepare food for yourself.
believe me, i want to eat more vegan food.

>>10406562

can you even handle a gun with your frail vegan limbs?

>>10406684
No, that's why vegan shooter got 0 kills.

>>10396427
Hunger/appetite is a very basic feeling though. I don't understand why something like this should be a philosophical discovery for people.

Compare it to sexuality, and the way that most people allow their sexuality to be more or less instinctively driven. People aren't weighing the whole thing out and trying to say things like "well, nobody is going to fuck that ugly guy so I'm a bad person unless I do".
The idea that something your body has strong urges and cravings and sensations to consume is ludicrous. If it makes you happy to live without meat, well nobody is actually stopping you. I don't understand how you can feel like you have to inject your feelings into the lives and choices of other people, especially in the area of doing something so basic and meaningless as eating.

>>10406684

Fuck off and die, carni.

>>10400598
>makes you sick
>food tastes bad
>completely unnatural

>mineral fertilisers being washed into our waterways is A-OK
This is your brain if you don't eat meat

>>10396448
>ethics professor
What the actual fuck

If you come from a 500 years of vegetarien genetics like a monk or some shit then you should eat vegetarian. If you have 500 years of omnivore genetics in you then you should stick to a normal diet. Does switching half way through your life really make sense when you don't have the genetics for it?