/ck/ - Food & Cooking

>>8167722
>>8167744
I actually think that enough crust has formed to make the loaf movable after about 3-5 minutes. The problem with moving it that early, however, is that the interior of the loaf is still very delicate and you can risk disrupting the seed bubbles that will promote aggressive oven spring. I usually only rotate once halfway through, but it's important to be vigilant because the walls will torch a loaf on the quick if you're not careful. The thing that's nice about a wood fire oven is that by the time you're baking bread, most of the heat is generated by the insulated floor and walls. That means opening the door to look at things isn't going to be as deleterious to oven temp as it is with a conventional home oven.

>>8168619
I make them a few times a year. I've never heard of the method to which >>8169007 is referring, though. Croissants (and danishes, kouign amann, and puff pastry) are made from laminated dough. The method is straight forward, but it is tedious. First, mix a lean dough and roll out into a large rectangle. Second, roll out a block of butter to 1/3 of the dough rectangle side, place in the middle of the dough, and fold the dough in thirds over top. Third, proceed with 3-5 cycles of rolling the dough out to a large rectangle, folding in thirds, and then resting in the refrigerator for 30m-1h to keep the butter hard. This generates all the little layers of dough and butter that produce the incredible texture of these pastries. Attached is a photo of some kouign amann I made a few months ago.

>>8168665
Yes. You can see a picture of it here: >>8148317. A description of its construction is available here: >>8151447.

>>8167264
It's the best. It's just also a true food chemistry book, so it's very dense. More approachable than a standard chemistry textbook, though.

>>8167270
Come on over.

>>8167290
Welcome to the fold. Sounds like you're using the no-knead technique. Given sufficient time, the gluten network will form both via mechanical energy from the rise and from the nature of the proteins suspended in a water-rich environment. The biggest mistake when doing no-knead bread (or pretzels, in this case) is using too much yeast. If you throw in too much yeast, it doesn't have enough time to form a good gluten network before the yeast loses its leavening power. Post up when it's done!

>>8167322
>died in a gas explosion
Brutal.

>>8163894
Looks great to me. I bulk ferment overnight frequently. The key is to still bulk ferment until doubled, even if that takes overnight in the fridge and all day the next day while the dough comes up to temp. If you short that, you're going to wind up with subpar bread. There have been times where I've used very little leavener, bulk fermented overnight, and required >10h at room temp to get adequate bulk fermentation the next day.

>>8164942
Yum.

>>8165309
I take my oven to 900F for pizza, then let it cool down to a floor temp of 500F for bread, then down to a floor temp of 400F for overnight slow-roasting of meat.

>>8166457
Wrong.

>>8166703
Definitely a standard issue with wood fire ovens. It's imperative to keep a close eye on the bread and rotate often since the walls can really put an uneven scorch on the final product. I've done it many, many times. Very frustrating.

>>8167262
Forgot to set name to FF.

>>8153839
Sorry, my friend. I dig potatoes on pizza.

>>8154113
>>8155156
Looks great.

>>8155485
Bread flour is preferable for pizza, in my opinion. The dough can be made anywhere from 2-72 hours prior to baking, depending on formula and fermentation temperature.

>>8157330
Thanks. I have a KoMo Classic.

Decided to use some of the leftover ingredients to make a totally different kind of pizza for dinner tonight. This one is my standard 80% hydration dough. Roasted potatoes and shallots as a topping.

>>8151092
>>8151475
Sorry, bud. Missed the previous post. To be honest with you, it's tough to determine what values the poster used for weight to volume conversion. I'm also not sure if canned pumpkin is 90% water, though I suppose that's possible. Best way to figure it out is to try it and see how you like it. Post up with results and we can fine tune it.

>>8151889
Oat flour has a great mouth feel and taste, but it is not a replacement for wheat. It has 0 gluten, so it will not stabilize oven rise like wheat flour does. I like to add it in in small amounts (<10% by weight), but it will certainly produce a denser and more cakey crumb. The seeds to which you are referring may be caraway.

>>8152144
On Food and Cooking is a stellar book. It's the one I recommend to anyone who expresses an interest in the science of food. It's no Fennema's, but it demystifies a lot of the magic of baking and cooking in a really engaging and understandable way. That book is what started me on my trajectory into cooking and then into food chemistry.

>>8152198
Gross.

>>8151299
It's not that it's inferior. It's that it's not a sourdough in the true sense. You're essentially culturing commercial yeast, which is a completely different animal from wild yeast and bacteria. Nothing wrong with it. If it produces good bread, then that's all that matters.

>>8151331
Never tried it. I think the better bet is to set yourself up with a proofing container of some kind and stick with regular ol' sourdough. You can see some of mine in >>8148317. Mine consists of an insulated container (collapsible cooler), a small electric heating mat, and a temperature-controlled outlet with thermocouple. It's set up so that whenever the temp in the cooler drops below 80F, power to mat switches on and gently brings the temp back up to 80F. Total setup cost me ~$50.

>>8149567
I agree completely with >>8149598. Huge missed opportunity.

>>8149934
Baguettes are, in my opinion, the HARDEST bread to nail. I've probably personally made well over 3000 loaves of bread in my lifetime, and to this day hand-made baguettes are still the sketchiest thing I attempt.

>>8150307
Looks delicious to me! You may find the dough hard to stretch and fold with the addition of potatoes. They tend to turn the dough from an extensible material into something ultra sticky and pasty. End result is always awesome, though. It's hard to argue with the soft and smooth crumb that comes from potato bread. An alternative to achieve a similar texture is to make a tangzhong, where a water/flour roux is made and cooked, then added to the dough. Similar result: the cooked starch inhibits gluten formation and you get a very silky crumb.

>>8150788
I'm in agreement with >>8150952 on this. I have a strict no-commercial-yeast policy when I'm working with sourdough. I never put it in my culture, and I never add it in addition to the levain in my breads. When you add commercial yeast you are essentially just making a simple preferment (biga, poolish, etc). Still a great technique that yields exceptional results, but it's not the same as a levain.

>>8149365
My standard pizza is 100% flour, 80% water, 2.5% salt, 0.2% yeast. I bake that at 550F (max temp in my oven) with convection on a stone. This dough yields a much more approachable delivery-style dough, as it has a lot of fat in it. As a result, I bake it, in general, at 450F until browned to my liking. For the party today, I put it in a half sheet pan and topped with pepperoni on one pizza, and mushrooms on the other. Baked at 450F for the first 10 minutes then dropped to 400F. No pizza stone. Baked about 25m total.

>>8148503
It's the beauty of bread making. Most everything is edible and impresses everyone else, but there's ALWAYS room for improvement.

>>8148504
Sourdough is advanced breadmaking. Bread leavened with commercial yeast is easy peasy.

>>8148518
Google NY Time No-Knead Bread. It's a great start with artisan bread, and dead simple.

>>8148978
I make my own sourdough culture, but recently have been using commercial yeast because my culture died while I was out of town on business.

>>8148423
It's the best. A huge loaf of bread costs me ~$1. Even less if I mill my own flour.

Decided to make some crappy cafeteria-style pizza for a family get together today. Here's the formula:

100% bread flour
55% water
10% extra virgin olive oil
2.7% salt
0.5% yeast

Should make a soft, fluffy crust that's more cakey than it is open and rubbery. Usually winds up pretty tasty.

Picture also features my proofing container.

>>8145428
Randy, I am the meme.

>>8145436
Nice thought. Didn't want them to wind up being too sweet. They turned out great.

>>8145456
>>8145938
Great video of the slap and fold technique. Dedos gordos (aka fat fingers) is how you say thumbs in Spanish.

>>8146722
Looks awesome.

>>8145422
Oh, forgot an important part of that recipe. There was also 15% white sugar.

Decided I wanted to do something sweet but leavened with yeast. Put this together last night:

100% flour
40% whole milk
20% egg yolk
5% butter
2.5% salt
1.0% yeast
+ handful of chocolate chips

Let it bulk ferment overnight then baked this morning at 325F until internal temp was ~185F. They're killer.

>>8143952
I'll take it.

>>8143064
>>8143123
That loaf was a 100% coarsely milled whole wheat flour bread. It doubled during proofing.

>>8143454
Please see >>8137992

>>8143163
It is a mixture of flour type, stage of gluten development, and hydration.

>>8143357
In all fairness I only have a red beard. No red hair or freckles. I'm only partially soulless.

>>8143849
I've spent too much money on equipment. I have a flour mill, a commercial mixer, a wood fire oven, and more various bread toys than I'd care to admit. The truth of the matter is that you can make excellent bread at home with little more than the ingredients, an oven, and a sheet pan.

>>8138048
They're actually very useful tools. The buy-in is steep to be sure, but I'm able to produce a significant quantity of food with about $5 worth of wood. I'll make multiple pizzas and flatbreads at 800-900F, then bread at 500F, then slow-roast a very large cut of meat overnight at 400F until it's cooled down. I definitely didn't spend $7k on my oven since I traded some R&D consulting work toward it, but I wouldn't hesitate to drop big coin on the next one now that I know how useful they are.

>>8139947
I have never personally done it, but I'm sure it's been done. If you're planning on steeping them in hot water, be aware that they will lose a lot of their "wheat" properties in bread. Give it a shot and report back!

>>8138082
>>8139216
You can definitely mix in softened wheat berries. Not uncommon at all. The famous Danish rugbrod often has whole rye berries in it. Giving them an overnight soak or a few hours steeping in hot water will generally guarantee they cook during the baking process.

>>8138656
Looks awesome.

>>8139279
Good to see you're still fighting the good fight. I'll work on leaving, I promise.

>>8139570
Cambodian for bread.

>>8139682
That's definitely a doable crust in the home oven, with or without a cloche. The key is steam, whether generated through a preheated cast iron pan and boiling water or a cloche, high heat, and not being afraid to let the loaf get dark.

>>8138136
It's kneaded the same way as bread made using white flour. Are you encountering a particular problem kneading whole wheat bread?

>>8138024
Instant yeast for this loaf. I just got back from an 8 week business trip and haven't reactivated my sourdough starter yet.

>>8137999
Baker's percentages made no sense to me when I first started baking by weight. Definitely the most common question I get asked when I post my formulas. Ultimately I think expressing a formula by standard percentages (relative to the whole dough, not just to flour like baker's percentages) would be just as efficient, but common practice is what it is.

>>8138007
That's a tough question to answer. Time is a bad measure for bread baking because of the variability in ambient temperature, ingredient quality, handling, etc. In general, I recommend baking by volume: bulk ferment until double, proof until just under doubled. If it takes 60 minutes to get there, cool. if it takes 8 hours to get there, cool. There are exceptions to these rules, but it will get you started. In regard to the actual baking process, I start the oven at 550F then back it down to 440F as soon as I drop the loaf in the oven. I largely go by crust color to determine when I'm done baking, because by the time it's dark and to my liking the interior is almost certainly done. Particularly large loaves can screw that estimation up, though, so when in doubt use an instant read thermometer and bake lean loaves to 200-205F.

>>8137978
Baker's percentages. See http://www.kingarthurflour.com/professional/bakers-percentage.html

>>8137984
I love flax seeds in bread. Big fan.

>>8137991
Yes sir.

Haven't done this in a while, so why not. Bread thread.

Here's a loaf I made yesterday. 100% whole wheat, 68% water, 5% molasses, 2.5% salt, 0.2% yeast. Milled the flour fresh from hard red winter wheat berries. Enjoying the new mill a lot. Mixed in walnuts and topped with a mixture of roughly milled rolled oats, sunflower seeds, flax seeds, and pumpkin seeds.

Feel free to ask any bread questions.