/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>6851349
I think this actually characterises my big beef with walolita: the obi. Mixing the two styles in terms of the theme and adding other elements is fine, but the problem comes from the fact that an obi is supposed to give you a cylindrical shape, while lolita aims to achieve something more like an hourglass or overturned teacup.

I like this outfit pretty well, and she did a good job reconciling the top half, but the skirt is so flat because of the obi and the rest of the bottom half is so dark and flat compared to the texture on it, that it just doesn't seem balanced out.

Honey, please stop trying to push wa lolita here. It just isn't cute. Nothing that you posted so far was cute. Whenever you find something really amazing that would inspire all of us, you'll be welcome to post it. Untill then, please stop trying.

>>6851355
I'm not her and I dislike wa lolita as much as the next loli but I'm found of kimono and Meiji era clothing, so it seemed fine to me.

But still look weeb as hell tought

>>6851352
Obi are cute as fuck but I totally understand you. Maybe a obi-like, lighter belt should work ?

I hate it when white girls try wa. Do you know how silly you look?

>>6851361
You do realise that lolita already looks silly as fuck, right? Anyone outside of lolita isn't going to differentiate between a white chick in wa lolita and a white chick in sweet. They're both weird as hell.

>>6851362
>Implying we care about people outside of the lolita community.

>>6851361
It's not like these girls have any pride in who they are to begin with, or else why do you think they're so obsessed with ingratiating themselves into a foreign culture and throwing themselves at the feet of foreign men?

I wonder why does she identify herself as a lolita ? She is clearly mode in the tumblr/lana del rey/retro/vintage style.

>>6851368
More *

>>6851368
What the fuck is with that eye make up? I'm not exactly familiar with Lana del Rey, so from your commentary, I'm assuming this is her influence on said image.

>>6851368
WHO IS SHE? I love it! 10/10 would wear!
I'm a little old for my lolita so I'd like to try a more subtle style. I can't imagine getting rid of my babies, though.

>>6851370

>>6851375
If that's what she was shooting for, she missed the mark by about twenty miles.

>>6851373
hiijessie on lj, she often post on d_l

>>6851373
Wouldn't wear that.. whatever is called that hairstyle, though. Nor the make up.
She rocked the ETC jsk nevertheless.

>>6851375
Her eyebrows seriously frighten me

Please laught with me

>>6851367
I hope you know that lolita itself is based on victorian fashion which is everything but asian.

>>6851386
It's like if she put on the dress and the seethroughthing and it looked cute, so she matched the shoes and it was nice too... then a goddamn circus exploded in her fucking head but she decided to go out like that anyways.

>>6851390
Hey, we get it. You really want to try out your ~suppah cute wa loli yukata~. Most of us have been there before, so it is ok. Really. But wa lolita looks weeb as fuck and ugly as hell, so put aside your handmade obi unless you don't care if you're posted in an ita thread.

>>6851390
Then why are you morons wearing Obis and Kimonos and Japanese fashion with it?

Go listen to some Mana, lel.

>>6851407
Not this anon but do you realise that Japan was the big thing in XIXth ? There was a Japan village exhibit near London, every young woman had her own kimono as a dressing gown and I will not talk about japonism in art.
So quit thinking that weabooism is new, you moron

>>6851386
The tiara almost makes it look like one of those get-ups that they make the bride to be wear at her hens' night. Almost. Just needs a "BRIDE" sash in hot pink and a penis-shaped straw in an equally hot pink cocktail.

>>6851386
I really dislike all the lolita/cult party/whatever mixing. This is a particularly bad example, but even the less crappy ones just look silly.
I think some styles are kind of all-or-nothing, if you try to do "partial cult party" you just look dumb (though I think the style looks fairly stupid even when done "right" but that's beside the point) and what you're trying to do doesn't come across clearly because there's too much going on.

>>6851407
>>6851413
heavily related, XIXth, James McNeill Whistler
Fashionable woman used kimono as casual clothing

>>6851400
Somebody here seems really paranoid, this was my first post in this thread and no, not everybody here is OP.

>>6851413
You're seriously calling on history to justify your ugly taste in fashion? Omg, I never thought there would be so much butthurt. I'm laughing so hard.
If it means so much to you, just wear it. Why do you need our approval so bad?

>>6851426
For the last time I'm not op, but it make no sense to say that if something is based on victorian clothing, it can never have a japanese feeling.
The point is I don't like wa-lolita but it's not out of place in lolita fashion IMO.

Back to the thread, more daily ?

>>6851423
ALL lolita is cultural appropriation. So SIT THE FUCK DOWN ALREADY.

Moar photos less wa lolita shit

>>6851386
This isn't a terrible outfit if you just cut off everything she did on her head (pink hair, overpowering cheap looking tiara, non-matching floral headband).

>>6851423
Just a trend. Western fashion obliterates Japanese.

>>6851430
But it's cultural appropriation.

>>6851390
>Victorian
>anything but asian
>implying the mystical Orient wasn't really popular
muh opium

Oh god this guy creep me the fuck out

captcha :lsegul saw

>>6851430
>>6851445
>>6851423
>>6851413

>>6851445

Uh, no it doesn't.

Guys in Yukatas > guys in suits in terms of kawaii-ness.

>>6851349
>>6851352

Joanna plz go home

>>6851455
Yeeeeck, this bedroom look

>>6851455
I feel like this guy's style isn't awful, but like...every time he posts, his hair just ruins it for me. I want to see him invest in a nice hat. His outfits would also benefit from some nice detail pieces, I think. Like a beautiful lace jabot or badass military-inspired boots. The overall effect right now is just a little too plain and makes the coord feel costumey.

>>6851349
It made me sad that OP had puppet circus and coordinated it that way. I'm not even much of a fan of puppet circus but I'm annoyed that she has it and chooses to coord it so poorly.

I laughed heartily. I dunno, maybe this wasn't intentional, but just that it's a brolita wearing the "King of Lolita" print...

>>6851368
Hm. She looks like a cast member for Hairspray. I normally like otome-kei, but there's something off about it and I think it's the overdone make up. It works for rockabilly, but not otome-kei which is typically a cleaner look.

>>6851455
Ugh, he creeps me out too.

>>6851643
He lives in the ohio area I think. I have seen him a quite a few cons here and always dresses in lolita.

>>6851662
He also trips here.

>>6851386

No one pointed out her alternative ZOMBIE shoes yet?

Every time I see her on my dash I cringe, but follow her just to see more.

She owns so much brand, it blows my mind how's she's been in lolita for years but still looks like this

>>6851673
>been in lolita for years but still looks like this
Funny how common this can be, I almost thought we were talking about that girl who bought the ddc set and then her tights weren't aligned.

>>6851643
Ha, that is funny. He's definitely improved since I've last met him. Maybe some contouring make up would help, but hey, what can you with convention/hotel lighting?

>>6851368
Did anyone else feel like she just wanted to show off buying original VW RHS? I mean was this picture with the price (which I resized, it's twice the size on the post and the tag is clearly visible) really necessary? Maybe I'm just being jelly though, right?

More on topic, would def love to know how to style my hair like that, even if people don't consider it very lolita, it's really lovely to me.

>>6851847
I could be wrong, but I think she might work in the Westwood shop in Newcastle.
Either way, there is a shop there so it's more understandable she might want to buy the real things.

>>6851857
That wasn't my complaint at all... I was saying was the last picture on her post, which is just the shoes on top of the box with the price tag clearly shown, really necessary for a d_l post? It just felt like she was showing off is all... I have no problem with her buying the shoes or having the means, lol

>>6851860
Ah, sorry.
Yeah, since labels are so messy it's weird that she wouldn't turn the box around to hide it.
Maybe she is? Who knows.

To be honest I think the OP looks really cute, I never think wa-shit looks cute.
Maybe it's the fact that it doesn't have weird prints and loud colours?

The girl is kind of ugg though and has no make up. I don't get how someone can put a nice outfit together but not do their hair and make up?

>>6851375
>her shirt
>"I fart in your general direction!"

>>6851847
That's what it looks like to me as well, because of everything you already noted.

>>6851643
LOL. There are probably lolitas who wear "Cherish My Juicy Cherry" that wasn't intentional either. You just got to love the prints. If you don't love or like the print, then don't wear it.

>>6851662
>>6851672
Yep.

>>6851706
I'm always questioning my makeup skills.

>>6851426
>our approval

are you implying you're not a fat white bitch because girl

>>6851847
>£315
Jesus fucking Christ. It's some leather stuck to a block of wood.

>>6852397
>$600 for a rare print dres
It's just some fabric with dye and lace on it.

Different people spend on different things and value them according to their own preferences. The spending that much part isn't the problem. The bragging about the price tag for the sake of it is tacky as fuck, though.

>>6851446
Not same anon but: why don't you go back to tumblr and tell them about it... Cause no one cares here.

>>6852426
Pretty sure that was sarcasm/facetious.

>>6852447
Fucking hope so. So over that SJW bullshit, still hate wa but also hate SJWs.

>>6851368
>why does she identify as a lolita

check your privilege

>>6852412
>It's just some fabric with dye and lace on it.
A print dress is usually far, far more complex than RHS. I'm not saying it's an unreasonable price for shoes in all circumstances, just an unreasonable price for something so incredibly simple.

>Different people spend on different things and value them according to their own preferences.
Of course, that doesn't make it unreasonable to think it's fucking mental to value those shoes at that price.

>>6852565
>Popular design house
>made in England
>tanned leather and treated wood
>up toeight weeks to make on order if no stock is at hand in your size

While you might not think they're worth it. They are real Vivienne Westwood shoes, and well worth the price for people who buy them.

>>6852565
I'm guessing you have no idea how shoes are made. They're a fucking pain- which is why most people can make their own dress but very very few people will attempt to make their own shoes.

I can agree if they are bulk produced in china like the plastic lolita shoes we all love, but real RHS are most likely worth the price you pay.

I have one pair of expensive shoes (well, boots) that were originally about $450. Ive had them for about 5 years now, and only needed to polish them after each winter. The soles still look brand new, the zipper never fails, and the leather has no wear. I wear them practically non-stop when the weather gets gross. (They're not weather-boots either. Just simple black leather riding-styled boots.)

I used to refuse to pay over $100 for shoes, but these boots really changed that. I am really impressed what a couple hundred will do for the quality and construction. I was sick of buying shoes that might last one season, and now I mostly buy shoes that require a bit of savings. If I loved the look of RHS, I would buy the real ones in a heartbeat- but I think, and probably most lolitas think they're way outdated.

>>6851370
>>6851381
That's just the popular makeup style with young women in Northern England. The brows I find especially terrifying, I have no idea why they're everywhere.

>>6851847
Fucking capitalism, what have you done to me? Would buy it in a heartbeat if I had the money.

>>6851433
>>6851446

It's not cultural appropriation because it doesn't have a religious or significant place in the local culture.

Shit like Indian headdresses, Geisha Halloween costumes, and "sexy" Chinese dresses are appropriation because they take something that actually has a social place and meaning and make it into a joke that's laughing at the culture and the context, and even worse, making fun of them while totally oblivious to how obnoxious it is. I don't particularly think it's "clever" and "sexy" for people to put a rosary on their tits or dick or whatever, it's stupid.

Lolita is *already* about being cute and silly. When Westerners wear lolita, they're using it for it's original purpose in context. There was something in the news a while ago about an American girl who formally trained to be a geisha; that's not appropriation, because it's with respect to the source and in context.

>bitches don't know how to third wave feminism in this thread

I can't believe I'm stupid enough to explain all this on fucking 4chan...

>>6853545

It's called the "scarsbrow" or something like that, I acquire all my fashion knowledge from Snog, Marry, or Avoid and they had an episode dealing with this.

Which I cannot find atm but I KNOW IT'S OUT THERE

>>6851370
>>6851381
They're called scouse brows and are terrible terrible things

>>6852397
It's not even that expensive considering it's somewhat "high fashion". If I had the money, I'd buy it. There are places who charge that price to simple cotton t-shirts.

Scouse brow because it's from Liverpool

>>6853911
Also, wasn't lolita originally very heavily based upon victorian fashions in the first place?

>>6853994
Ugh sorry, I worded that awfully.

>>6853994
Welll..... YES, but whites can have their culture appropriated because they are total meanies who oppress every other culture and we all know double standards are OK when it comes to minorities and oppression.

>>6853994

Yeah, but that's not as legit as an argument as you would think--horses weren't introduced to the Native Americans until the Spanish came, but they've certainly acquired religious and cultural significance since then.

It's not so much about where the object in question came from as it is the role it plays in the culture. There are a lot of cultural items that were introduced accidentally, deliberately borrowed, or imposed by colonial/conquering mindsets that have acquired deep importance.

>>6853994
Yes and those Victorian fashions have almost no religious or social significance in modern day England.
They're just old clothes.

>>6851673
I can't see her shoes properly.
What's ~zombie~ about them?

>>6854010

Well, first of all, Victorian clothing doesn't really have a significant cultural meaning or place in our current understanding. Secondly, there are a lot of things that are appropriated from White cultures, including Irish knots, rosaries, and the stealing of Greek antiquities.

Cultural appropriation really needs a specific set of circumstances: a culture uses important, sacred, or significant items from another culture in a way meant to mock, denigrate, *and* ignore the meaning of those items.

A lot of the things nonWhite cultures have borrowed/used/stolen were introduced by Colonial measures, ie, "given" to them, and they are often very aware of the meanings of the items and are trying to be subversive.

All the rosaries and crosses and shit I see Japanese brands putting out is frankly offensive as fuck and I'm not even Catholic. I refuse to wear any crosses or cross prints because I'm not a Christian and it feels icky and weird, the same way I wouldn't wear the Islamic crescent, or the yin-yang.

There's nothing wrong with thinking critically about intercultural interactions and the effect that it has on both cultures and even others in proximity. It's good to critically examine why we do the things they do and what those acts mean rhetorically and how they can be interpreted.

Being proud of being ignorant, uncritical, and un-engaged isn't Edgy Cool Internet Existence. It just shows how fucking boring you are because you can't be assed to spend three minutes thinking or learning while you have the greatest tool for human knowledge at the end of your fingertips. You have the enormity of all human knowledge just a click away and you choose to use it to actively become more stupid.

>>6854046
10/10 would follow on tumblr

>>6854046

Eh, I always learned in my religious ed classes that the cross is not a symbol unless you think it as such. If I take a cross out of the context of Jesus and Christianity and think of it as a nice aesthetic symbol I'm not bothered.

However I do get uncomfortable a bit when the allegory is taken too far I guess and then denigrated in a humiliating fashion for ~edgyness~ (e.g. when that artist painted faeces on Mary because of some bullshit symbolism). Still, they're free to do whatever they want and simply because they don't agree with our mores doesn't mean we should censor them I guess? My right to disagree with him is as much as his right to still keep on displaying that picture.

Not sure if I made sense there. I definitely understand you not wanting to wear crosses, I just have a different view i suppose.

>>6854231

It's not censorship to tell someone they're being an asshole. It's not even censorship to put them in jail for using that symbol. What is classic censorship is *hearing* that someone is planning to do/say something, and then preventing them from speaking at all.

Legally free to take certain symbols and do whatever they want, but we've already had the legal vs moral debate with the replicas. I still think people who wear rosaries--not just crosses, but rosaries--as a fashion accessory are obnoxious and tools.

>>6854936
I feel like imprisoning someone is a form of censorship simply because the implied threat extends to others, and thus prevents them from speaking through threat of imprisonment.

>>6855006

On a personal level, I think you should be willing to put your money where your mouth is. There are some things I believe in enough that I'd be willing to go to jail for.

If you're not willing to go balls to the walls for a belief/idea, then you're not passionate enough for your voice to be valid or be worth hearing.

Obviously this is only for real, serious topics--I don't think you should be jailed for liking replicas or Skrillex or whatever.

>>6854046
>in a way meant to mock, denigrate, *and* ignore the meaning of those items.

So, if I use it because I think it looks nice does this still apply? I think it would only be applying to one of these "requirements", ignoring the meaning of them.

Besides, what exactly IS "cultural appropriation"? As in: is this just disrespectful? Do the people that complain about it want it to be outlawed? I'm asking genuinely.

>>6854936
>It's not even censorship to put them in jail for using that symbol.
Uhm, excuse me?

>>6855162
>If you're not willing to go balls to the walls for a belief/idea, then you're not passionate enough for your voice to be valid or be worth hearing.

Bitch, please.

>>6855182

Do you remember when you were a kid, and you had a shitty friend who had more money than you? I did. And she picked up the blanket my dead grandmother knitted for me and started to poke holes in it with her fingers, and when I told her to stop she rolled her eyes and told me it was a stupid blanket. And then she poked at it some more and when I got really pissed she made fun of me. Then I kicked her out of the house for being a disrespectful whore.

That's essentially it, only on a bigger level: one culture takes another person's stuff, treats it like shit, and then acts offended when other people tell them they're being assholes. You see it mainly with a colonial/colonized or conquerer/conquered majority/minority kind of history, so it really is a final kick in the face: oh, you killed our people, stole our land, we live in shit, and now you're making our religion a stupid joke. NOTE this dynamic isn't unique to white people, you see it with the Han Chinese and the ethnic minorities, the Japanese and the Ainu, and even interwhite issues with the Irish and English.

>>6855358

Indian Headdresses are a BIIIIIG issue with hipsters giggling that it's "cute". It's not cute, it's religiously and culturally meaningful and you're treating it like an accessory, with no respect, and what's more, you don't even care how rude it is.

The people who complain the most about it are the ones who are the marginalized people in that culture--again, Native Americans. I'm going to be blunt here: Native Americans have jack-shit. About the only things they have for their shredded prided is the cultural stuff that wasn't genocided out of them. Destroying and humiliating Native people for having Native stuff was going on well into the 1970s with the boarding schools, and so when they see people treating *the only meaningful thing they have in the fucking world* like some pretty toy, and then telling them they need to get over it because GAWD it's sooooo annoying when people try to resurrect a dead race, well, yes, they get pissed.
When people talk about cultural appropriation, you'll hear the world "othering" a lot. There is a of great post-colonial academic work about this term, but basically it's setting up some people to be percieved as less-than-human and them as less-important than you. A lot of costumes, especially, rhetorically say, "my gosh, aren't these Indians/Catholics/Africans/Japanese<wbr> people so WEIRD and STUPID? Who really believes this thing is important? Aren't they silly? Aren't I so NORMAL and RIGHT and how people are MEANT TO BE?" It re-inforces ethnocentric and bigoted notions of normality and acceptability.

>>6855360


When people talk about it being outlawed, it's usually Big Things, like when Americans don't want the flag to be burned or Muslims demand laws about the proper disposal of the Koran. In general, the American third-wave feminists don't like laws about this kind of thing, because it's a very murky, fluid, social-contract, case-by-case kind of thing, so what we'd like to see is a culture that simply doesn't tolerate it--you can make Leg Avenue sexy geisha costume if you want, but no-one will buy it because it's weird and creepy.

Remember: this item wouldn't be "pretty" or "exotic" if the culture that produced it was yours--every culture produces fascinating, pretty, and unique items. Since the stuff you've been exposed to is "normal" and this is "weird" it seems more interesting.

A lot of appropriation comes out of a head-space of entitlement (I get to do anything I want without even being QUESTIONED!!!) and, frankly, attention-whoring (dressing/acting like this makes me SPECIAL and UNIQUE like the members of this culture!!)

>>6855360
Dude, I don't have a single drop of Native American heritage on me, but I hate it too.
>pic related

>>6855366

My family has Native blood but absolutely zero connection to culture--like every other white person 1/64 Native.

As it happens, my grandfather loves Native antiques and has a beautiful collection of Native artwork, and he spent a lot of time talking to the people about what's okay to buy and sell and when he should contact authorities for some items. He took me to archaeological digs and powwows and museums. He instilled in me a lot of respect for the things he has,I don't even know what I'm going to do with half of it when he passes on. Donate it to a museum?

>>6851847
>>6852397
tbf she probably got a sweet ass discount since she works at a VW store
regarding her hair, i think its just teased a bunch? it's hard to tell because of the bow

>>6855400
Yeah even if she got a discount, why did she need to post that picture in her d_l entry with the price tag for all to see? lol

>>6855400
She wears wigs, it is a styled wig.

>>6855162
>If you're not willing to go balls to the walls for a belief/idea, then you're not passionate enough for your voice to be valid or be worth hearing.

Wow, you're an idiot.

>>6855360
correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it really only ONE N.A. tribe that traditionally made and wore feathered headdresses and it just got picked up by television and western movies and propagated continuously for about fifty years as 'this is how the injuns dress, guise' so how the fuck can you complain about some white hipster child 'appropriating your culture' when the likelihood that you actually belong to the tribe who made feathered headdresses is pathetically slim? tumblr bitches at people like that for their appropriation of culture but it's really more likely that they are aping representations of indians in the media that were appropriated like seventy-odd years ago. and even in that context, in a weird way it's kind of flattering because generally they're latching onto perceived n.a. cultural traits like 'freedom', 'being in touch with nature' and 'wiser than the white man' lolol.
I will always think that people are being way too sensitive over arguments that arise because of fuckin' movie costumes.

>>6857941
No, it was multiple tribes, but grouped together as "plains Indians". Meh, I think white girls wearing war bonnets as accessories is more comparable to a teen sporting jump wings or a combat infantry badge. It's just stupid, and pretty obvious how someone who's not Native American or a veteran can view it as disrespectful.

>>6857941

I never said I was Native--I'm fucking not and its really sad that you think the only people who care about this shit are Native. It certainly says a lot about your investment in people around you.

I care because I'm American and Native people/traditions are part of my national heritage and also my fellow countrymen, so yeah, I care about the shit that happens to them; and I maybe even owe them some kind of respect for the shit my ancestors put them through.

Positive stereotyping is still bad because it promotes the idea that these aren't real, complex people. There's been a lot of work done on this, but Native people in general feels it's really insulting, and just because it's an old stereotype doesn't make it an okay one.

And if you're American you really should spend about ten minutes perusing a wikipedia page before you go talking about Indians. Seriously? You thought it was one tribe? Even the shitty movies you're referencing knew it was more than one.