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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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9056072 No.9056072 [Reply] [Original]

QuantFag here,

So me and my buddies have build a bunch of algorithms that are ridiculously profitable.

How do we start one such that we do not have to go and pay top dollar and/or be fucked by Uncle Sam.

>> No.9056117

We do not mind not taking US capital. Also we are willing to go anywhere/any weird Island were the regulations are nicer.

The bulk of our clients will likely be European/Russian or Arab. We are sourcing them from these rich places like Monaco and alike.

>> No.9056141
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9056141

If you have to ask that question it's better to go work at Mcdonalds..

>> No.9056143

With "start one" I mean a HEDGE FUND in case you missed.

>> No.9056145

You're not a quantfag because a true quantfag would know how to do this.

Hint: incorporate in an offshore company zone and go from there.

>> No.9056177
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9056177

>>9056072
>So me and my buddies have build a bunch of algorithms that are ridiculously profitable.


if that was truly the case you would just trade it yourself and keep your mouth shut

>> No.9056201
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9056201

>>9056141

Your hurting my feelings :(

>> No.9056228

>>9056201
>quant
>crypto trading

Lmaolmaolmao

>> No.9056256

>>9056145
Thank you for the hint. Uhh and no, Im just a fucking nerd. I no my shit, but aint a lawyer.

>> No.9056271

>>9056201
Holy shit you can make a graph. Im fuckin blown away

>> No.9056300

>>9056228

lmao Sharpe 6.8 ..

but need investors to actually get rich soon.

>> No.9056331

>>9056072
I think brapposting is just memeing. Like only children that fetishize incest. When I was in junior high, my sister used to wake up before me, and would often come into my room and wake me up by backing right up into my face and farting. She had AWFUL morning gas, it would literally make me cry. It wasn't sexy, or fun, it was disgusting bullying and I still have nightmares about it.

>> No.9056351

>>9056271
lol, its bout the returns not the graph, can somebody give some suggestions that actually are relevant..

>> No.9056366

>>9056331
um sweaty, the whole point of brapposting to associate disgust with thots as to discourage brapposting :)

>> No.9056367

>>9056177
This

If i had a nickel for every time someone had a "super profitable alrgorithm" and wants investment.

If you really believed in your algorithm, you'd be opening up 15 credit cards and using that money w ur algorithm -- not looking for partners.

>> No.9056388

>>9056201
nice unreadable code. read a software engineering book before you make others lose money with your incompetence. and i know pyplot and numpy from top to bottom, ur just bad

>> No.9056391

>>9056367

wtf dude, I would not, one major fuckup (some fuck commits the wrong code) and your in deep shit.

>> No.9056410

>>9056388
Who cares? It works. and yeah I should work on my code.

>> No.9056440

Why don't you use Google? Also the only thing you need to start a hedge fund is a shit ton of money and a proven track record (2million is the standard minimum). Other than that, hedge funds basically operate outside of the law. You don't even need to be an accredited investor to run one.

>> No.9056441

i will invest so long as your strategy revolves around manipulating an unregulated market with wash trades/pump and dump/tape painting. otherwise your strategy is an illusion.

>> No.9056449
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9056449

>>9056391
yes you definitely sound like a person managing a million(s) dollar fond for rich arabs =D

>> No.9056448

IS THERE ANYBODY THAT COULD ACTUALLY GIVE A SUGGESTION INSTEAD OF HATIN' ?

>> No.9056464

>>9056410
you'll find soon it doesn't work. i'm sure you haven't even wrote one single test

just drop this, go take a software engineering class, and come back in two-three years

>> No.9056484

>>9056440
well there are very strict laws especially for public funds. annually we have hundreds of managers jailed still stealing from investors, i guess it's too lucrative.

>> No.9056497

if your algorithms are really profitable you dont need investors money

>> No.9056524

>>9056440
Ok proven track record might be a problem, but we basically have commitments from more then one investor (rich induviduals) that they would like to invest. We would like to start small around half a million and maybe work our way up.
Question remains how do I do it, Google aint a panacea in this case.

>> No.9056543

>>9056201
>backtested

cringe

>> No.9056565

>>9056484
So how do I set it up s.t. we can keep doing our dinky little thing that generates 20% p/m but work with larger amounts then our meager 8 bitcoin.

>> No.9056578

>>9056543
>>9056524
Actual advice: your controlled backtesting means jack shit. Start an "incubator" hedge fund where you just manage you and your friends' money and generate audited returns for the next 6-12 months. If it works even half as good as you believe it will, you can raise some dough. No one is putting big money to a dime a dozen backtest quant strat

>> No.9056587

>>9056543
pff, no real. actually fucking real yes, plus some arbitrage trading mixed into it. We were greedy so did it on the same account. still need to filter it out.

>> No.9056597

>>9056391
This is my point exactly.

If your algorithm isn't good enough for YOU to take the risk of using it, why should anyone else?

Anyway, here's some actual advice. It's not about the algorithms as much as it is about the risk management.

The tails are always fat. You need to have trading strategies in place rapidly de-leverage your portfolio in the case that one of your bets goes very, very wrong. So I'd suggest looking into algorithmic risk management strategies.

Also, just remember, when you test an algorithm, you aren't including your own trades' price impact. It's very easy to convince yourself that an algorithm is profitable in the lab, but once you go to execute, its not possible to recreate in real world.

Anyway - if you really do have a bunch of $$ to manage, i am interested.

>> No.9056670

>>9056256
Nah, man. You don't know shit. Obvious LARP is obvious.

>> No.9056723

>>9056597
I am risking a large amount of my own money. But I am not going to go in the red for it. Also we completely cut out any risk management and we do not use leverage, we dont really need to I feel, but could be mistaken.

>> No.9056806

>>9056670
Again a suggestion for starting a fund would be nice..

and with that I mean that I know how to make a working algorithm. Emphasis on working... which it does.

>> No.9056951

CAN ANYONE GIVE A SUGGESTION ON HOW TO START A FUND WITH MAXIMAL INVESTMENT FREEDOM WITHOUT A LARGE RISK OF HAVING TO GO TO JAIL?

If our investors need to agree to terms/ sign a wager of sorts that would free us from certain responsibilities that might be an option. Many of these crypto exchanges are very shady. How can you ever make that "legal" with all the ISO norms etc etc and all the legal bullshit that comes with it. I believe we should go full cowboy and we have some wealthy individuals who are willing to follow us and give us the money.

>> No.9056966

How about you broke ass poojets stop shitting in the streets instead of scamming

>> No.9056995

>>9056951

Do you know any hebrew?

>> No.9057027

>>9056995

A bit.

>> No.9057051

>>9056072
Tf is a quant? Like a traders group or something?

>> No.9057094

>>9056391
Hey just wanted to say make sure when backtesting you only use data up until the "current day", some strategies can look a lot more profitable then they really are because they are processing the entire dataset from the get go and can "predict the future"

>> No.9057113

>>9056951
you need to start a hedge fund.

IDK how it goes in your pajeet country -- but in the USA you need to create a partnership, and the fund manager is the GP "general partner" of the partnership who manages the capital on behalf of the LPs "limited partners".

TLDR - the legal structure might be different in your country, but in the USA, so long as your investors are "accredited" (ie, rich) you can pretty easily setup a hedge fund.

You'll need formation documents, articles of partnership, etc. Also youll need a good draftsman to write your LP agreement... ideally somebody that has experience weaseling out of contracts.

>> No.9057142

>>9056723
>Also we completely cut out any risk management

English isn't your first language, so maybe you mean something else. Otherwise you're a fucking lunatic

>> No.9057151

I am still hoping that someone will actually give a bit of an answer.

I fear I might actually have to go and pay some expensive Mossack Fonseca Lawyers to work this shit out.

>>9056597 and others,
The reality is that setting up a complete infrastructure that would make the structure acceptable for a professional investor would be so large that would leave too little for us. The edge we have is very profitable, but probably cannot absorb a lot of capital.10 million max in the best case.

We are very much a garage endeavor at this point, but the edge we have is real (around 25% per month).

>> No.9057223

>>9057142
I meant taking on a considerable amount of personal debt in order to make money of my strategy. I will not do that. and yes it is not my first indeed.

>> No.9057227

>muh backtests
90% guaranteed OP introduced some kind of data snooping or other bias into his tests and his strategy actually performs like shit live

>> No.9057277

>>9057094
I know, but thanks, the approx 25% per month is real though. As in real bitcoin actually trade from about 5 to 8. It is the graph I posted above.

>> No.9057279

>>9057151
dude listen to what you are saying.

25% a month.

Means 1.25^12 = 14,000% increase annually.

You have no clue dude.

>> No.9057291

>>9057279
Tomorrow our edge could be gone.

>>9057113
Thanks

>> No.9057350

>>9057291
apply for iconomi fund https://www.iconomi.net/dashboard/#/

>> No.9057380

>>9057113
We have EU and Swiss passports. We currently do our thing in Switzerland, but are willing to go anywhere. The people that are willing to give us money are mostly Swiss, but we have gotten big interest from a bunch of rich asses in Marbella where we might be spending the summer. A team members dad is well connected there (Russians, Arabs all sorts of stuff). They already have their lambos,

>> No.9057436

>>9056072
Serious question here.
Can you become a quant with an Engineering degree? Would it be easier with an Actuarial Science degree? Thing is my country doesn't offer any degree directly leading up to becoming a quant. So what do I do?

>> No.9057530

>>9057113

I was just wondering, is it possible to go to one of these places where the regulation is a lot more flexible and have our investors follow us into these place.

What you are saying sounds very legit to me. However we would like to start cheap and play with some investors money while our shop is still pretty amateur. Our investors know this! they see the investment more as a fund little gamble that could turn out very well, but will not be in tears when we lose all the money. We however would like to be in a situation where they cannot sue us into oblivion in case there sentiments change.
Maybe there are other options. I read that "The institute of Trading" uses a Power Of Attorney (POA) structure to have traders play with their money. We would like to have some "foreplay structure" before we really start a proper hedge fund.

>> No.9057591

>>9057277
Oh, that is real data. Okay. Congrats man.

>> No.9057601

>>9057436
You need to be very good at math. Depends on how much math/what kind they made you learn for your degree. And understand finance.

>> No.9057649

>smart enough to code a profitable algo
>Too stupid to know what to do with it

Nice larp

>> No.9057685

>>9057380
You asking a bunch of Americans how to set up a hedge fund in SWEDEN and your getting frustrated because we can't give you an answer. Anyway here's step by step how to start a hedge fund in burger land.
1. Raise capital (the industry standard is 1-2 million minimum)
2. Have a PROVEN AND TESTED STRATEGY AND TRACK RECORD
3. Start a shell LLC (limited lability company)
4. Find investors and sign them on as partners to said LLC
5. Get a lawyer to draft legal documents and for general legal purposes
6. ...... Profit
7. Loose all of you and your investors money and get your ass blown out in court while ruining your investment reputation in the process and ending up in prison

>> No.9057695
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9057695

You should get an email list or group started. Work out some kinks, take advise and inform potential clients first.

>> No.9057724

OP, I'm wondering how long on average does your strategy stay in a position? If it is very quick, will increased volume hurt your gains as you suck liquidity out of the market? I think you said you had a max of 10 million of something but those are the kind of things you only really know when you get to that point.

>> No.9057739

>>9056072
why bother with other people's money. get a bank loan and start with your own capital. with "ridiculously profitable" algorithms it wouldn't be a problem to get the ball rolling.

>> No.9057753

>>9057649
Dude, I am really a fucking nerd. Yes I am too stupid to know what to do with it. That's why im asking for some advice.
Dont forget, we are doing this for only a couple of months. I barely knew what a Hedge Fund was a few months ago.

>> No.9057779

>>9057695
Also, I'd be willing to help in whatever capacity. I have a background primarily in corporate identity graphic design, and marketing. I've done free work on here about a dozen times too.

>> No.9057822

>>9057724
I hate this answer myself but: It depends, I feel I cannot really answer that question without getting specific. Its quite advanced mathematically speaking. I am taking those aspects into consideration and yes you cannot know it before you actually try it.

>> No.9057885

>>9057822
Find a place to start it bruh

>> No.9057942

>>9057695
>>9057779
Thanks, but I am not sure we are on the same page.

I actually do not want to scam my investors. The profit is real, but the capacity might be very low and there is a lot of risk involved including our shitty code base. Again: The investors know this and are still willing to give money. Now we need a way to do it legally. Without us being on the hook with our dinky algorithms that would get raped in any legal case a western country where are activities are considered as "money management".

>> No.9057964

just finished reading the thread. ffs how old are you, op?
>25% monthly
you don't need money from investors, you will be a billionaire in a couple of years if you start with 1000 bucks

>> No.9057975

>>9057753

U need data

Having like 2 years of data to show it works in bull and bear markets and a couple of both so investors know it's no fluke. Just be patient and stick to the process and improve

>> No.9058007

>>9057975
This, you could also build a model using your algo if you feed it information in a stream.

>> No.9058034

>>9057942
I wasn't implying you scam people, but if you're planning on a any kind of business venture you need to construct a strategy for corporate appearance. I mean I hope you're not going to just email potential investors [I can make u 20% gib monie pls]

>> No.9058073

>>9056448
hire a bunch of mathematics and statistics PhD's

>> No.9058100

>>9056072
Nice just bought 100k

>> No.9058102

Also now we're at it. If anyone has a decent amount of BTC and is willing to sign a NDA is good with Python (and C++ but primarily need Python at this point). and would like to chill out in Marbella this summer. Telegram: @maxmaxmin

Most of the Dutchfags that I know are not adventurous enough for this shit..

>> No.9058128

>>9058102
Going to message you anon, I have a profitable arbitrage bot written in Python

>> No.9058280

>>9058073

We actually have something like that..
but in my opinion better.

>> No.9058700

>>9057975

I aim to make bank before that day

and yes im saving the data, always save all the data all the time.

>> No.9058730

>>9056565
this would be 71 BTC in a year. Why would you want other people to invest????

>> No.9058810

I'm good with Python, can contribute code but not BTC

>> No.9058835

>>9058730
ook nederlands btw. mijn afstudeer thesis is om een machine learning based quant te bouwen.

Op dit moment nog geen strategie die werkt op onbekende data, maar is wel korte termijn. Welke candles traden jullie op? Suggesties naast CNN / random forests?

>> No.9059000

>>9056143
what did he mean by this

>> No.9059124

>>9056723

If you make 2.5% daily (after trading fees) with starting capital of 10000 USD you'll have 82 million in one year and SIX BILLION after 18 months.

So fuck off with your 'I found a way to turn lead into gold how do I sell this to someone'.

>> No.9059169

i love a good larp thread/
tell me more about your lavish quant lifestyle

>> No.9059180

>>9056201
You went feom 5 to 8 in 3 months.

Dude

This

Is

Crypto

Not

Stocks

>> No.9059259

>>9059000

O god, being such an aspie can make me such a bad communicator.
I mean if you read my first post:

"
So me and my buddies have build a bunch of algorithms that are ridiculously profitable.

How do we [[[[start one]]]] such that we do not have to go and pay top dollar and/or be fucked by Uncle Sam.

"

with this "start one" I mean a hedge fund. or any other legal structure that would allow us to accept money from investors without having to deal with all the regulation. We want our cake and eat it too, yes. (if thats the expression).
Our investors are oke with the reduced protection for them this will imply.

>>9058835

Allerlij verschillend shit. RF is lekker makkelijk als je iets wil wat redelijk werkt in korte tijd en tevens robust is.

Misschien kunnen we wel iets voor elkaar doen. Anders stuur je een bericht naar mn telegram @maxmaxmin.
Ken wel wat profs. dus misschien is er wel iets interessants te fixen.

>> No.9059304

>>9058730

If we make it through this year. Again the edge could be gone tomorrow.

Oh and Im very greedy.. :P I want much more.
We might also lower the investment amount half way if possible.

>>9058810
please pm on @maxmaxmin on telegram.

>> No.9059542
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9059542

>>9056366
>disgust

>> No.9059606

>>9057279
lel I had 80% ROI from trading on bitmex for 2 weeks in February, but now with all the barting my strat doesn't work as well

>> No.9059696

>>9056449

Mistakes happen, they just do.. and sometimes its just plain bad luck and because of that liability needs to be limited.

>> No.9059717

>>9057279

If you think you can deliver value you can contact us.

Im not bluffing, I can prove it.

>> No.9060204

>>9059717
i understand asset protection. my friend do you know about assert protection vehicles? you want 2 public companies 1 incoorporated in cayman and 1 incorporated in anguilla. you want the anguilla compkany fully owned by the cayman company. then you need 2 shelf companies in netherland and 1 shelf company in ireland. the nederland company should be fully ownd subsidiaries of the cayman parent, but the irish shel should be 50% ownership by anguila compnay and dutch comany. you follow? good. now go open a trust in the cool islands and throw the cayman company under that ownership, got it? once thats settled i need you to find a tax attorny in Liechtenstein. i can bring this to the next level with a singaporean shelf company but e ned you to be accepted by singapaore money authority as an investor innovator or entrepreneur. how much money are you working with. im legit

>> No.9060256

>>9060204
***cook islands trust. if you guys arent going to be sued i dont think you need the cook island or singaporean account. you hardly need the irish loop dutch sandwich if you dont have to report to SEC if this is all offshore. avoid nevis and turks. cayman, anguilla, bermuda are god tier. if you want curacao also has excellent offshore vehicles

>> No.9060306

>>9057223
>i dont know what risk management is
>I want to start a hedge fund

How old are you? You legit sound 13.

>> No.9060662

>>9060204
I do not understand "asset protection vehicles". We are just these geek dudes that made a bunch of computer code that just works. Nothing more.
I would be a fool to say that I understand that, if we do something like that we would need to work with someone that knows shit.

The amount we are working with: Sorry atm small fucking potatoes. around 80k now, but we can certain life of it by now and not every part of the return can be compounded, parts of the funds are from mothers and grandmothers. We think we could get a lot more, two Swiss richfags seemed ready to give 100k, but we would need a structure to protect ourselves.

We could work on a success fee basis if you are indeed legit.

>> No.9060795

>>9056072
I wonder if she has pancake aereolas

>> No.9060806

>>9060256

I just do not know these things. Where does one even begin. We have very limited legal experience. So please enlighten me with specific actions I should take:

and then not "open shell company in x"

but "go to place x, talk with y, print z"

like you would explain your grandmother how she should handle her computer, something like that.

>> No.9060948

>>9060806
speak to your local corporate-law lawyer, dumbass.

>> No.9061065

>>9060948

corporate-law lawyer? ;)

I dont know man, but there are certain things one just does not know, better to ask, then to try to look smart.

>> No.9061377

>>9060662
>>9060806
I advise you to take a step back re evaluate the situation, 80k is almost pointless to go offshore. With that the most you can open is a crap IBC in Belize or Andorra. You need a lot more, maybe 250k for Caribbean islands and 1mm+ for Singapore and grade A European tax havens. Seriously 80k is futile, if you're an amerimutt go incorporate in Delaware or a Nevada LLC

>> No.9061442

>>9056072
>ridiculously profitable
>backtesting
>what is curve fitting

Come back to me when you can show real trade and profit data for 2 years

>> No.9061485

>>9061377

I see, so maybe there are other options? I heard one could perhaps work with Power Of Attorney (POA) arrangements. Not sure how that would protect us, but maybe its another approach.

Also it could be a lot more than 80k one day, but we want to work on it step by step. We have no way of know if it will still working with 1M or more of investment.

>> No.9061490

>>9056072
Chances are your algorithms aren’t that profitable if you don’t know the answer to this question/need to ask /biz/.

>> No.9061524

>>9061442

Again. It is real. It is fucking real anon.

"curve fitting" who came up with that slogan anyway. The whole of AI is "curve fitting". Shouldn't it be called overfitting?

>> No.9061587

>>9061485
That's not necessarily about tax savings or anything other than giving some third party ability to pull the triggers on whatever u stipulate in regard to your fund. If you want asset protection and are in usa just like I said incorporate in Delaware. Where are you near geographically, I can name the nearest B - C level tax havens (what you need for your size)

>> No.9061629

>>9056441
This I would invest in that

>> No.9061663

>>9056072
Give me milkies now

>> No.9061683

>>9056072
For the 1% chance you aren't larping, you should investigate getting your algorithms listed at NapoleonX, it is exactly what you are looking for.

>> No.9061717

>>9061524
If you don’t know what curve fitting means, your strategy probably isn’t profitable.

>> No.9061752

>>9057601
Have only done calculus courses up to my second year in engineering. Should I move to actuarial?

>> No.9061771

guys my overfitting algorithm took me from 5 BTC to 8 BTC recently (when all of you doubled up at least just by holding any alt on binance).
Time to start a hedge fund amirite?

>> No.9061930

>>9056072
Milk truck arrive

>> No.9061976

>>9056201
I can help you I have friends in monaco switzerland, you should go onshore@delware and offshore@caymen

>> No.9061997

>>9056201
I can help you I have friends from switzerland and monaco, you should probably go onshore@delware and offshore@caymen if you want to stay in the us

>> No.9062020

>>9061771
Anon, you have no clue what we are doing.

Im confident it is working. The edge could go away, but it is working.

I backtest shit vs good controls.